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View Full Version : Oh btw, gasoline is now under $2.00 a gallon.


Mycroft
22nd November 2005, 12:19 PM
Where I live, it has been for a couple of weeks now. Yesterday I filled my tank and had change left over from a $20.

Nyarlathotep
22nd November 2005, 12:21 PM
Where I live, it has been for a couple of weeks now. Yesterday I filled my tank and had change left over from a $20.

Not where I live. It's still hovering around $2.40 here in Northern Nevada.

Where do you live that gas is so cheap?

Mark
22nd November 2005, 12:22 PM
Where I live, it has been for a couple of weeks now. Yesterday I filled my tank and had change left over from a $20.

I noticed the prices started dropping right after the congressional grilling of the oil executives. Coincidence?

KingMerv00
22nd November 2005, 12:25 PM
I noticed the prices started dropping right after the congressional grilling of the oil executives. Coincidence?

Possibly.

It has also been a while since Katrina.

Nyarlathotep
22nd November 2005, 12:25 PM
I noticed the prices started dropping right after the congressional grilling of the oil executives. Coincidence?

Actually, I have noticed them dropping since Labor Day weekend was over. It seems like normal seasonal price fluctuation combined with the end of the spike in prices caused by the hurricanes. I doubt the grilling had anything to do with it. Heck, most of those congressman are probably owned by oil execs.

Mycroft
22nd November 2005, 12:34 PM
Not where I live. It's still hovering around $2.40 here in Northern Nevada.

Where do you live that gas is so cheap?

Kansas City. RIght now the station a couple blocks from my home is selling regular for $1.949

Grammatron
22nd November 2005, 12:40 PM
Here in People's Republic of California it's $2.65.

Mark
22nd November 2005, 12:48 PM
Here in People's Republic of California it's $2.65.

Much of that difference is because of taxes the voters added via the propositions, Grammatron. (Props I voted against, I might add.)

Btw, I just paid $2.41.

KingMerv00
22nd November 2005, 01:11 PM
Philadelphia is about $2.20

Jersey, just under $2.00 and they will pump it for you.

Grammatron
22nd November 2005, 01:13 PM
Much of that difference is because of taxes the voters added via the propositions, Grammatron. (Props I voted against, I might add.)

Btw, I just paid $2.41.

That and cleaner gasoline requirement.

I'm tired of this expensive cleaner air! :mad:

Mark
22nd November 2005, 01:16 PM
That and cleaner gasoline requirement.

I'm tired of this expensive cleaner air! :mad:

You wouldn't be if you had been around in the 1960s. I'm serious...I remember vividly the first time I saw snow up close at about 4 years old; I was stunned that it was white and not not brownish orange.

We used to regularly have days at school where we were not allowed any physical activity; that still happens, but with nowhere near the frequency it used to.

Grammatron
22nd November 2005, 01:23 PM
I was joking Mark :/

I'm cool with more expensive Gasoline.

Bob Klase
22nd November 2005, 01:37 PM
Heck, most of those congressman are probably owned by oil execs.

I'd think at least the congressmen that didn't want them sworn in are owned by the execs. I'm still trying to figure out why any congressman would be against swearing in a witness- the only reason I can think of is that they don't want the witness to face any penalty if they lie.

Bob Klase
22nd November 2005, 01:39 PM
Philadelphia is about $2.20

Jersey, just under $2.00 and they will pump it for you.

They not only 'will', they are required to. New Jersey law makes it illegal for gas stations to allow customers to pump their own gas. (I think there's only one other state with that type of law).

Grammatron
22nd November 2005, 01:40 PM
They not only 'will', they are required to. New Jersey law makes it illegal for gas stations to allow customers to pump their own gas. (I think there's only one other state with that type of law).

I believe Oregon is that state...if I am not horribly wrong.

Mark
22nd November 2005, 01:47 PM
I was joking Mark :/

I'm cool with more expensive Gasoline.

I thought you might be...

Abdul Alhazred
22nd November 2005, 01:48 PM
Chicago: $2.25/gal at the "cheap" station.

Mark: It seems to me that the prices dropped right after the bad publicity about "record profits". This also prompted the congressional hearings, but preceded them.

So the hearings did not cause anything, but are not unrelated.

slingblade
22nd November 2005, 02:08 PM
$2.69 here in western Colorado, but it's coming down.

Also, our local news suggested prices might be coming down so consumers can make a bajillion trips to the mall and spend the extra change there, instead.

But I don't "play" Christmas, so it's just more money in my pocket.

Tmy
22nd November 2005, 02:48 PM
Remember the hurricane afteer katrina? Wilma. Prices barely moved. Now I pay $1. 97.

Big f'n deal!!!! Its part of their scam. Now they have us trained that $2 is a bargain. It should be $1.30.

CBL4
22nd November 2005, 03:01 PM
Yes, Oregon is the other state that does not allow self serve.

If it raining and you are not in a hurry, it is a very good thing. If you are in a hurry, it sucks.

CBL

roger
22nd November 2005, 03:10 PM
These price drops are really ticking me off. My oil stocks barely appreciated 10% this month. :mad:

I'm only half joking. While it has hurt to fill the tank recently, this pain has been more than offset by the performance of my energy investments.

The Central Scrutinizer
22nd November 2005, 03:24 PM
Where have all the whiners gone? When it was above $3 (IIRC), they were all complaining about monopolies and conspiracies, etc.

If oil companies were truly engaged in a conspiracy to "rip off" the consumer, why would they ever drop the price? Funny, no whiner ever seems to have an answer for that.

WildCat
22nd November 2005, 03:35 PM
Where have all the whiners gone? When it was above $3 (IIRC), they were all complaining about monopolies and conspiracies, etc.
Uh, if you'd have read this thread you'd find 3 nutcases posters in it are still convinced of the conspiracy...



;)


BTW, Abdul, where have you seen $2.25? Cheapest I've seen is $2.37, but that's at 47th and Michigan. :(

Tmy
22nd November 2005, 03:38 PM
Where have all the whiners gone? When it was above $3 (IIRC), they were all complaining about monopolies and conspiracies, etc.

If oil companies were truly engaged in a conspiracy to "rip off" the consumer, why would they ever drop the price? Funny, no whiner ever seems to have an answer for that.

CAUSE THEY WANT TO DODGE CONGRESSIONAL ATTENTION. Theres your answer.

Heres a question for the oil company lemmings, howd the oil companies make record profits when oil prices and their costs were at their highest??

BPSCG
22nd November 2005, 03:46 PM
Yes, Oregon is the other state that does not allow self serve.

If it raining and you are not in a hurry, it is a very good thing. If you are in a hurry, it sucks. My sister lives in NJ, and when we go visit there, I've learned to not ask the pump monkey to "fill it up." 'Cuz then he just pops the nozzle in the tank, locks it on, and walks away to take care of another car, or, more likely, chat with his fellow simian until he figures he's got nothing better to do, at which point, he wanders over back to the pump and tops it off, then gets my credit card, leisurely walks it into the office, then comes back out with a receipt for me to sign.

So I calculate how much gas I need: "Hmmm, probably about 10 gallons... At $2.50 a gallon..."

Then I tell the Special Children's Center refugee, "Uhm, just gimme twenty dollars regular, okay?"

That way, he either has to stick around, or I can shut the thing off myself, which will surely bring him running.

Try it; it works.

Oh, BTW, $2.23 at the cheap station in NoVa, but if you drive 15 miles south to the Potomac Mills Mall in Prince William County, it's barely two bucks. Always been that way, nobody knows why.

Art Vandelay
22nd November 2005, 03:46 PM
I noticed the prices started dropping right after the congressional grilling of the oil executives. Coincidence?
Is it a coincidence that Congress scheduled their grilling right before the seasonal drop in gas prices? Probably not.

WildCat
22nd November 2005, 03:55 PM
CAUSE THEY WANT TO DODGE CONGRESSIONAL ATTENTION. Theres your answer.
I always wondered who in the hell Congressmen though they were fooling pulling stunts like that. Now I know!

Heres a question for the oil company lemmings, howd the oil companies make record profits when oil prices and their costs were at their highest??
Are you also surprised by a gold mining company making more money when the price of gold rises?

The Central Scrutinizer
22nd November 2005, 03:58 PM
CAUSE THEY WANT TO DODGE CONGRESSIONAL ATTENTION. Theres your answer.

Yep, you betcha! :rolleyes:


Heres a question for the oil company lemmings, howd the oil companies make record profits when oil prices and their costs were at their highest??

Hmmm....probably the same way real estate agents make record commisions when prices are highest.

Abdul Alhazred
22nd November 2005, 04:04 PM
BTW, Abdul, where have you seen $2.25? Cheapest I've seen is $2.37, but that's at 47th and Michigan. :(

Not quite Chicago. Near Palwaukee Airport and also Waukegan, but it fluctuates a bit from day to day.

Tmy
22nd November 2005, 04:08 PM
Are you also surprised by a gold mining company making more money when the price of gold rises?

Yeah but gas isnt some trendy trinket or bobble. Its more like a neccessity/utility. Generally with a price rise you have less of a demand. Especially a dramatic price rise.

Do Orange juicers make record profits after a hurrican wipes out the crops?

Grammatron
22nd November 2005, 04:14 PM
Yeah but gas isnt some trendy trinket or bobble. Its more like a neccessity/utility. Generally with a price rise you have less of a demand. Especially a dramatic price rise.

Shh! Don't tell Tmy what gold is used for, or he might learn something.

WildCat
22nd November 2005, 04:28 PM
Yeah but gas isnt some trendy trinket or bobble. Its more like a neccessity/utility. Generally with a price rise you have less of a demand. Especially a dramatic price rise.

Do Orange juicers make record profits after a hurrican wipes out the crops?
Tmy, go research what "fungible commodity" means. Then you'll see the why the gold reference is relevant.

It might surprise you, but the answer to the juicer question is "yes".

Mark
22nd November 2005, 05:02 PM
Is it a coincidence that Congress scheduled their grilling right before the seasonal drop in gas prices? Probably not.

Prices usually fall just before the holidays? Wow...on which planet?

epepke
22nd November 2005, 05:41 PM
$2.05 is the lowest price it is around here. I bet it's cheaper in Georgia.

RandFan
22nd November 2005, 10:21 PM
Yeah but gas isnt some trendy trinket or bobble. Its more like a neccessity/utility. Generally with a price rise you have less of a demand. Especially a dramatic price rise. Supply and demand. As long as supply is low and demand is high the price will rise until it finds an equilibrium. If the price rises too quickly and the market shifts away from the market then demand will fall.

There is no magic to determine when markets will turn. That is why investing in markets is called "speculating".

Do Orange juicers make record profits after a hurrican wipes out the crops? Frozen Orange Juice is a commodity sold on the New York Bord of Trade (http://www.nybot.com/) under FCOJ (Frozen Concentrated Orange Juice) as well as other markets. Orange Juice is grown throughout the world including Brazil, Florida and California. If a hurricane wiped out the orange crop in Florida it would significantly cause OJ supply to drop and demand to rise. FCOJ futures would rise.

Futures traders that speculated that the price of FCOJ would rise (went long) would absolutely make a killing. Your hypothetical is the scenario that an FCOJ trader dreams about.

Growers sell their commodities on the futures market to hedge against such scenarios so it is unlikely that their profits would fluctuate markedly. The Futures trader on the other hand would stand to make a killing. Like the grower, the wholesaler (processor) buys on the futures market for the same reason. To hedge against fluctuations. Their profits would also not likely rise sharply.

The purpose of the commodities market to reduce risk on the part of the grower and processor.

If supplies rise too high then prices can fall through the floor and a futures trader who goes long can go bust. On the other hand a trader that goes short can make a killing. You see, a trader that goes short sells the orange juice at todays price but promises to buy it at future prices. If the price goes down he or she can make a killing. If the price goes too high then it can literally bankrupt him. There is no theoretical limit to going short. There is a theoretical limit to going long. Zero.

Long: Buys at $1 per unit. Price drops to zero. Investor looses his entire investment but he can't lose any more than that.

Short: Sells at $2 per unit. Prices rises to $1,000 or higher per unit. Ok, there are margin calls along the way but they are likely to wipe you out at any event.

Answer to your question, if you removed the futures trader then yes, the growers in Brazil, California, etc would very likely make huge profit

You can't get around supply and demand in a free market.

This is my opinion based on my limited understanding. I'm not an expert in finance or investing.

RandFan
22nd November 2005, 10:25 PM
Gas is likely falling because people changed their habits when the price reached a point that buyers would no longer stand. At least according to Jim Kramer, Neil Cavuto and others. Not proof, but a reasonable hypothesis forwarded by experts (?) in their field.

LostAngeles
22nd November 2005, 11:00 PM
Here in People's Republic of California it's $2.65.

Nuh-uh. Was $2.67 this morning so nyah.

Grammatron
22nd November 2005, 11:35 PM
Nuh-uh. Was $2.67 this morning so nyah.

I rely on the State energy website and not UCLA students :P

LostAngeles
22nd November 2005, 11:38 PM
I rely on the State energy website and not UCLA students :P

Well, I relied on the sign at the Mobil station down the street from me. :p

Bring it, Trojan. (You are a Trojan, aren't you?)

RandFan
23rd November 2005, 12:23 AM
Nuh-uh. Was $2.67 this morning so nyah.I paid $2.49 in Palmdale (60 miles north of LA) this morning. It was $2.39 in Bakersfield two days a ago.

Grammatron
23rd November 2005, 12:27 AM
Well, I relied on the sign at the Mobil station down the street from me. :p

Bring it, Trojan. (You are a Trojan, aren't you?)

Nah I was just messing with you that time, I'm not a Trojan. :)

Art Vandelay
23rd November 2005, 12:34 AM
Prices usually fall just before the holidays? Wow...on which planet?
Prices tend to rise during the summer.

Mark
23rd November 2005, 01:25 AM
Prices tend to rise during the summer.

...and fall in the Fall, but then rise again during the holidays.

I don't really know what is causing the prices to fall...other than the drop seems way too sharp to be accounted for by seasonal fluctuations. And it certainly wasn't Katrina here in California since our refineries weren't affected by the hurricane(s) in the first place.

I don't know, but am highly suspicious. How could anyone not be?

RandFan
23rd November 2005, 01:41 AM
...and fall in the Fall, but then rise again during the holidays.

I don't really know what is causing the prices to fall...other than the drop seems way too sharp to be accounted for by seasonal fluctuations. And it certainly wasn't Katrina here in California since our refineries weren't affected by the hurricane(s) in the first place.

I don't know, but am highly suspicious. How could anyone not be? Give 'em time. They will go back up.

ZeeGerman
23rd November 2005, 02:46 AM
It's still 1.20/l over here.
That's right folks! Comes down to $5.36/gal

Just to put things into perspective :boggled:

Zee

The Don
23rd November 2005, 03:16 AM
Gasoline prices have fallen for a number of reasons, but one must be that crude prices are currently significantly lower than they were as demonstrated by this graph (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/commodities/28696/twelve_month.stm)

WildCat
23rd November 2005, 05:57 AM
...and fall in the Fall, but then rise again during the holidays.

I don't really know what is causing the prices to fall...other than the drop seems way too sharp to be accounted for by seasonal fluctuations. And it certainly wasn't Katrina here in California since our refineries weren't affected by the hurricane(s) in the first place.

I don't know, but am highly suspicious. How could anyone not be?
The mind boggles...

WildCat
23rd November 2005, 05:58 AM
It's still 1.20/l over here.
That's right folks! Comes down to $5.36/gal

Just to put things into perspective :boggled:

Zee
Well, you Euros voted for those prices, didn't you? We still have a modicum of market forces at work here.

The Central Scrutinizer
23rd November 2005, 06:06 AM
I don't know, but am highly suspicious. How could anyone not be?

By thinking.

Mark
23rd November 2005, 08:31 AM
By thinking.

You mean that thing where you accept anything and everything the (Republican) goverment and global corporations spoon feed you? Not for me. But thanks for the suggestion.

Mark
23rd November 2005, 08:33 AM
The mind boggles...

What mind? The mind you shut off when told to?

The Central Scrutinizer
23rd November 2005, 08:36 AM
You mean that thing where you accept anything and everything the (Republican) goverment and global corporations spoon feed you? Not for me. But thanks for the suggestion.

Anyone who has posted for any length of time here knows that I am the absolute last person to believe anything a politician tells me.

But I know how "conspiracies" work. Or, more accurately, don't. But apparently you've bought into the global oil conspiracy hook, line and sinker. Congratulations. :clap:

ZeeGerman
23rd November 2005, 08:39 AM
Well, you Euros voted for those prices, didn't you?

Well, not really. Like in the US, we generally vote for parties/persons, not for single issues. But since most of the gas price is taxes and "we Euros" generally vote for governments with high tax policies and also put more emphasis on environmental issues, one could say so.


We still have a modicum of market forces at work here.
Implying that we don't?
In Germany there is still a variance of 10% to 15% in the gas price depending on the region (north/south etc.) and whereabouts of the station (i.e. the gas is more expensive at stations located on freeways (Autobahn).
In other countries (Italy is an example, I think), the prize is the same everywhere.

What would interest me is the following:
What do you suppose would be the threshold for the prize where Americans really started to put more regard to fuel efficiency when bying a car than power/ size of the car - and by this bring the US auto industry to actually build more efficient vehicles or even to introduce the Diesel engine on a larger scale?
Just to give an example: A Mercedes E320 CDI (that's quite a big mover with 200 horsepowers coming from a 2 litre Diesel engine) gives you easily 30 mpg, while the average of vehicles in that class in the US is around 20 mpg.

Zee

Mark
23rd November 2005, 09:00 AM
Anyone who has posted for any length of time here knows that I am the absolute last person to believe anything a politician tells me.

But I know how "conspiracies" work. Or, more accurately, don't. But apparently you've bought into the global oil conspiracy hook, line and sinker. Congratulations. :clap:

What conspiracy?

The oil companies are setting their own prices and lying about the reasons. What conspiracy is needed?

Your effort to defend them by putting the word "conspiracy" in my mouth is sad.

Here's a fun article for anyone who is capable of independent thought...not a conspiracy, just blatant Republican corruption:
The folks at The Post are telling us that Big Oil played a big role in the Big Guy's creation of a big plan to hand out big tax breaks and big subsidies to Big Oil. Who knew?

But the story really is significant, for two reasons. First, it confirmed what Big Oil and the Big Guy have long refused to tell the American people.

You may remember that Cheney would not disclose -- no way, no how -- any details about the task force's proceedings. He wouldn't even reveal who talked to the task force, never mind what they said.

Liberal and conservative watchdog groups sued the Bush administration to try to pry some records loose.

But they lost. White House lawyers argued, successfully, that handing over the records would impair the executive branch's ability to seek confidential advice on big issues.

Not that confidentiality is an overriding principle in the vice president's office, mind you. But this time, it really, really, really mattered.

The Post story is also significant because executives from Big Oil told Congress just this month that they had not participated -- no way, no how -- in the vice president's task force.

Near the end of a hearing on the oil industry's record profits in the third quarter of this year, Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., asked the executives about the energy task force.

The senator's question was pretty clear and direct: "Did your company or any representatives of your companies participate in Vice President Cheney's energy task force in 2001?"

As The Post recounted last week, no one spoke up at first. So Lautenberg started to elaborate. "The meetings ... " he offered, helpfully -- before being interrupted, one by one, by the Big Oil boys.

"No," said Lee Raymond, CEO of ExxonMobil.

"No," said Chevron head David J. O'Reilly.

"We did not, no," replied James J. Mulva of ConocoPhillips.

"To be honest, I don't know," said BP America's Ross Pillari, who pointed out ..."
http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051121/COLUMNIST33/511210415/-1/OPINION04

Mycroft
23rd November 2005, 11:35 AM
What do you suppose would be the threshold for the prize where Americans really started to put more regard to fuel efficiency when bying a car than power/ size of the car - and by this bring the US auto industry to actually build more efficient vehicles or even to introduce the Diesel engine on a larger scale?

We're waiting for Europe to develope the technology. That way we get to have our cake and eat it too.

BTW, in the US, diesel is more expensive than gasoline by about 30%.

Grammatron
23rd November 2005, 11:41 AM
Well, not really. Like in the US, we generally vote for parties/persons, not for single issues. But since most of the gas price is taxes and "we Euros" generally vote for governments with high tax policies and also put more emphasis on environmental issues, one could say so.

Big chunk of taxes are regulated by state and we get to vote for those.

What would interest me is the following:
What do you suppose would be the threshold for the prize where Americans really started to put more regard to fuel efficiency when bying a car than power/ size of the car - and by this bring the US auto industry to actually build more efficient vehicles or even to introduce the Diesel engine on a larger scale?
Just to give an example: A Mercedes E320 CDI (that's quite a big mover with 200 horsepowers coming from a 2 litre Diesel engine) gives you easily 30 mpg, while the average of vehicles in that class in the US is around 20 mpg.

Zee

The problem with Diesel is that it has trouble passing EPA requirements for emissions. I am not sure which cars you are talking about, but 200hp cars also get 30mpg here easily.

If one wants to go for efficiency there're plenty cars available here, people just don't want to.

pgwenthold
23rd November 2005, 12:02 PM
Yeah but gas isnt some trendy trinket or bobble. Its more like a neccessity/utility.

People claim that, but OTOH gas demand did drop significantly when prices hit $3.

Apparently, it is not that necessary.

Grammatron
23rd November 2005, 12:07 PM
...and fall in the Fall, but then rise again during the holidays.

I don't really know what is causing the prices to fall...other than the drop seems way too sharp to be accounted for by seasonal fluctuations. And it certainly wasn't Katrina here in California since our refineries weren't affected by the hurricane(s) in the first place.

I don't know, but am highly suspicious. How could anyone not be?

Well, we did have few more refineries open up in California in October.

Katachresis
23rd November 2005, 12:20 PM
I have subscribed to this thread, but haven't actually read it.
But I go here (http://www.bostongasprices.com) to both report prices and find the cheapest in the area I live, Boston, MA, USA.

The Central Scrutinizer
23rd November 2005, 02:30 PM
I have subscribed to this thread, but haven't actually read it.
But I go here (http://www.bostongasprices.com) to both report prices and find the cheapest in the area I live, Boston, MA, USA.

You really need to get a hobby.

CBL4
23rd November 2005, 03:48 PM
Oil companies buy oil and pump oil from their own reserves.

When prices are high, they make little extra money on the oil they buy and refine. The stuff they pump from their own reserves make a lot of extra money.

CBL

WildCat
23rd November 2005, 04:49 PM
In Germany there is still a variance of 10% to 15% in the gas price depending on the region (north/south etc.) and whereabouts of the station (i.e. the gas is more expensive at stations located on freeways (Autobahn).
In other countries (Italy is an example, I think), the prize is the same everywhere.
You get prizes? I didn't know about the prizes! What is it?!


What would interest me is the following:
What do you suppose would be the threshold for the prize where Americans really started to put more regard to fuel efficiency when bying a car than power/ size of the car - and by this bring the US auto industry to actually build more efficient vehicles or even to introduce the Diesel engine on a larger scale?
Just to give an example: A Mercedes E320 CDI (that's quite a big mover with 200 horsepowers coming from a 2 litre Diesel engine) gives you easily 30 mpg, while the average of vehicles in that class in the US is around 20 mpg.

Zee
After Katrina when prices briefly hit $3.00/gallon, I noticed the car ads were touting mileage and nary a word about horsepower was mentioned. As for a prize, I think a large stuffed animal (bigger than a breadbox) would be nice w/ a fill up. Or a wash, whatever.

As has already been pointed out, diesel here is way more expensive than gasoline. I have a sneaking suspicion that in Europe diesel was given a tax break to take some burden off the trucking industry, and the auto makers then jumped into the niche. But I may be waaaay off on tha one!

Another reason diesel isn't popular here is that in many parts of the country diesel turns to jelly in cold weather, which is why trucks don't like to turn their engines off in winter.