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shecky
30th November 2005, 08:46 AM
Miami police announced Monday they will stage random shows of force at hotels, banks and other public places to keep terrorists guessing and remind people to be vigilant.

Deputy Police Chief Frank Fernandez said officers might, for example, surround a bank building, check the IDs of everyone going in and out and hand out leaflets about terror threats.

"This is an in-your-face type of strategy. It's letting the terrorists know we are out there," Fernandez said.

Story here. (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/11/28/miami_police_take_new_tack_against_terror/?rss_id=Boston.com%2B/%2BNews)

I wonder what happens if you refuse to show your ID? Didn't some of the 9/11 hijackers have valid IDs?

Bjorn
30th November 2005, 08:49 AM
Do you have to carry ID in the US?

Cleon
30th November 2005, 08:50 AM
Do you have to carry ID in the US?

Technically, no. Realistically, it's a good idea.

Bjorn
30th November 2005, 09:02 AM
Technically, no. Realistically, it's a good idea.That might be correct - but what are they going to do with those who don't?

Luke T.
30th November 2005, 09:05 AM
I would refuse to show my ID just on general principle.

Cleon
30th November 2005, 09:06 AM
That might be correct - but what are they going to do with those who don't?

Probably make their life difficult for a little while; detain them, search them, prevent them from getting to wherever they're going. It would be interesting to see them try to arrest someone for it.

Mephisto
30th November 2005, 09:07 AM
I wonder what happens if you refuse to show your ID? Didn't some of the 9/11 hijackers have valid IDs?

You'll be permanently detained by the Department of Homeland Security until such time that charges can be contrived to connect you to Al Qaeda.

If you think about it, it's an excellent way to combine the war on terror with the war on illegal immigrants - you surround a hotel in Miami asking for ID and you'll probably end up arresting the entire kitchen and housekeeping staff.

I'll bet that they would likely accept a pilot's license as proof of ID - it makes this whole thing taste more like red herring than apple pie!

shecky
30th November 2005, 09:28 AM
they will stage random shows of force at hotels, banks and other public places to keep terrorists guessing and remind people to be vigilant.

And what's with the "random show of force"? Isn't that what terrorists do? Maybe that should read: "they will stage random shows of force at hotels, banks and other public places to keep people guessing and remind terrorists to be vigilant"

Where are all those anti-govt militia nuts from the 90s?

Manny
30th November 2005, 01:03 PM
See, now I was all ready to be mad at Timoney when the other thread on this subject cites this article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051129/ap_on_re_us/miami_terrorism;_ylt=AsEYpnMQ04vlj1qLSLdyJDGs0NUE; _ylu=X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg-), which avers that Miami PD will not be IDing people at random and that even the ACLU is taking a wait-and-see appproach on the plan.

Big, awesome, in-your-face presence = good. Random IDing = bad. So what's the truth in Miami?

And did they get real police cars, or do they zip around town in Ferraris like Crockett and Tubbs?

Grammatron
30th November 2005, 01:10 PM
See, now I was all ready to be mad at Timoney when the other thread on this subject cites this article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051129/ap_on_re_us/miami_terrorism;_ylt=AsEYpnMQ04vlj1qLSLdyJDGs0NUE; _ylu=X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg-), which avers that Miami PD will not be IDing people at random and that even the ACLU is taking a wait-and-see appproach on the plan.

Big, awesome, in-your-face presence = good. Random IDing = bad. So what's the truth in Miami?

And did they get real police cars, or do they zip around town in Ferraris like Crockett and Tubbs?

I think the most, MOST interesting thing is the both articles are credited not only to Associated Press, but the same writer, Curt Anderson! Holly molly.

CFLarsen
30th November 2005, 01:22 PM
I would refuse to show my ID just on general principle.

Why?

If you have an ID, why wouldn't you show it? What else is an ID for?

Grammatron
30th November 2005, 01:24 PM
Why?

If you have an ID, why wouldn't you show it? What else is an ID for?

Since you are doing nothing wrong CFL, you have nothing to hide, thus you won't mind if we randomely search your property and record your conversations.

Manny
30th November 2005, 01:24 PM
I think the most, MOST interesting thing is the both articles are credited not only to Associated Press, but the same writer, Curt Anderson! Holly molly.

Hmm. Maybe he made a correction in a subsequent version of the story and the Globe didn't pick it up? (The Yahoo story is today's, the Globe's is dated yesterday) I don't recall that the Times (Globe's parent) was especially unfair to Timoney when he was Dpty. Commissioner here.

geni
30th November 2005, 01:29 PM
Why?

If you have an ID, why wouldn't you show it? What else is an ID for?

Well the only ID I carry is incase I decide to drive something (of course insurence issues mean that is somewhat unlikely).

shecky
30th November 2005, 01:46 PM
Funny. I suppose more cops around the Twin Towers could have stopped those planes.

"Keep people guessing and remind terrorists to be vigilant".

Luke T.
30th November 2005, 01:51 PM
Why?

If you have an ID, why wouldn't you show it? What else is an ID for?

I'll tell you what is isn't for. It isn't for walking down the street or into a bank.

Cleon
30th November 2005, 01:58 PM
Why?

If you have an ID, why wouldn't you show it? What else is an ID for?
An ID is for verifying your identity. You shouldn't have to verify your identity for the "privilege" of walking down the street or going to your place of business.

An ID is necessary to verify your identity to conduct financial transactions. It should not be necessary to verify your identity in order to walk down the street or go to Burger King.

fishbob
30th November 2005, 02:06 PM
Story time:

Shortly after the Afghanistan invasion started, security was increased on the local Air Force base. I was working on base and went for lunch at the on-base Burger King (not many choices on base for civilians). The kid at the counter with the Burger King uniform had me show ID before he would sell me a Whopper and a Coke.

This ID checking has gone way too far.

Beady
30th November 2005, 02:13 PM
I'll tell you what is isn't for. It isn't for walking down the street or into a bank.

Or cashing a check, or applying for a job, or...

Grammatron
30th November 2005, 02:16 PM
Story time:

Shortly after the Afghanistan invasion started, security was increased on the local Air Force base. I was working on base and went for lunch at the on-base Burger King (not many choices on base for civilians). The kid at the counter with the Burger King uniform had me show ID before he would sell me a Whopper and a Coke.

This ID checking has gone way too far.

Burger King employee? Don't like it, don't frequent their esteblishment.

Soldiers? Hmmm, gets tricky cause it's "on-base".

Law enforcement doing it off-base? Bad, bad, bad.

Euromutt
30th November 2005, 02:21 PM
If you have an ID, why wouldn't you show it? What else is an ID for?Depends on the specific form of ID. The purpose of a driver's license is to allow a law enforcement officer to verify that the operator of a motor vehicle possesses the necessary qualifications to do so legally. The purpose of a military identity document is to verify that the bearer is authorized to be on (a particular area of) a military installation. The purpose of a passport is to prove the identity and nationality of the bearer for the purpose of crossing international borders. The purpose of a permanent resident card (such as the American "green card") is to prove that the bearer is a legally resident alien in the country of issue.

As a legally resident alien in the United States, I am obliged to have my green card in my possession at all times while on US soil. By contrast, I am only legally obliged to have my driver's license on me if I am operating a motor vehicle in public. Within the United States, I am not obliged to carry my passport at all (since while I am a foreign national, I am a legally resident alien).

Luke T.
30th November 2005, 02:25 PM
Funny. I suppose more cops around the Twin Towers could have stopped those planes.



More cops on planes could have.

fishbob
30th November 2005, 02:31 PM
Burger King employee? Don't like it, don't frequent their esteblishment.

Soldiers? Hmmm, gets tricky cause it's "on-base".

Law enforcement doing it off-base? Bad, bad, bad.

What? You think that Burger King is doing its part in the war on terror by not selling Whoppers to contractors without ID? After I had to go through security and present ID to get on base to even get to the Burger King? Although, I guess those mustard Whoppers with cheese can be deadly.

Grammatron
30th November 2005, 02:39 PM
What? You think that Burger King is doing its part in the war on terror by not selling Whoppers to contractors without ID? After I had to go through security and present ID to get on base to even get to the Burger King? Although, I guess those mustard Whoppers with cheese can be deadly.

I am not sure what the hell they are doing, I am saying my views on it.

Mephisto
1st December 2005, 09:09 AM
Story time:

Shortly after the Afghanistan invasion started, security was increased on the local Air Force base. I was working on base and went for lunch at the on-base Burger King (not many choices on base for civilians). The kid at the counter with the Burger King uniform had me show ID before he would sell me a Whopper and a Coke.

This ID checking has gone way too far.

I agree, anyone can have a fake ID - and as Bill Mahr pointed out - Bush's own daughters had a fake ID that they used to buy liquor. What makes Homeland Security or all these terrorists-are-in-our-city cops so sure that a terrorist will be identified as such on his ID? Are they just looking for Middle-Eastern sounding names to dig further or are they just pestering people? I'm sure that once all the German tourists get tired of pulling out their ID and quit visiting Florida - they'll change their tune!

Regarding Burger King checking IDs on post, there is a very important reason for this. We don't want just anyone coming in off the street (as though they could on a military installation) buying hamburgers earmarked for our troops! Don't you know there is a war going on? We must conserve our resources lest our soldiers suffer!

moonbeam
1st December 2005, 08:18 PM
Story time:

Shortly after the Afghanistan invasion started, security was increased on the local Air Force base. I was working on base and went for lunch at the on-base Burger King (not many choices on base for civilians). The kid at the counter with the Burger King uniform had me show ID before he would sell me a Whopper and a Coke.

This ID checking has gone way too far.

Maybe they thought you didn't look old enough to drink!

Tmy
1st December 2005, 08:33 PM
Cripes, I had a fake ID at 17. Unless you are running the ID thru some watchlist database you are accomplishing nothing.

More waste of time/money security bullflop. Like at the airport, when I haev to show my boarding pass every 12 feet.

webfusion
1st December 2005, 08:59 PM
What's even more troubling is that most Driver's Licenses are available online for viewing (no privacy at all):
http://www.license.shorturl.com

Tmy
1st December 2005, 09:07 PM
Wow. That sight even has GW's license!