i'm sending in my application

[kayimbo]

i can do some minor telekinesis, video's later this week

[Skeptical Greg]

Looking forward to hearing more...

[hal bidlack]

That's excellent. I don't mean to nag, but have you read the full requirments of the challenge? In other words, do you understand that you must demonstrate this ability under controlled conditions, and a video, while interesting, won't be proof?

[The Fool]

Originally posted by kayimbo
i can do some minor telekinesis, video's later this week

Hi Kayimbo.

Don't belittle yourself. There is no such thing as "minor" Telekinesis. If you can demonstrate it you will become the most famous person the world has ever seen. Your life and the history of the world will never be the same. I look forward to the amazing event.

[kayimbo]

here they are. nah, its pretty minor compared to how things really work. holy cow i'd love a million dollars for it though.

[kayimbo]

uh i can't figure out how to post them. IM me on aim at truekimbo and i'll send you a couple.

yeah i know videos don't count

[Earthborn]

uh i can't figure out how to post them.You can't post videos on this forum, but you can start your own homepage and put them there and post a few links here.

I don't think there is 'minor telekinesis'. Just think about it: if you can move something very small and light, it is possible to design an electric switch you can move, that controls something really big. With a little technical help, you can control much of the world with the power of your mind.

And you get a million dollars too! :)

[MRC_Hans]

kayimbo:

Videos are no use, forget about it. I can easily make (fake) a video that shows big time telekinesis (or anything else you like).

A test is what is needed.

Hans

[slimshady2357]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
kayimbo:

Videos are no use, forget about it. I can easily make (fake) a video that shows big time telekinesis (or anything else you like).

A test is what is needed.

Hans

Kayimbo,

Don't listen to this guy! :p

Although videos can easily be faked, you have already stated you realize they are not enough to win anything, so link to the videos if you can.

I would be interested in seeing them anyway :)

Adam

[Lord Kenneth]

I can shove a penny 3/4ths up my nose.

[shemp]

Originally posted by Dark Cobra
I can shove a penny 3/4ths up my nose.

I don't quite think this is what Randi & Co. had in mind.

[Bluegill]

Originally posted by Dark Cobra
I can shove a penny 3/4ths up my nose.

Better than that...my friend's toddler swallowed a quarter last week. After a few days in the digestive tract, out came two dimes and a nickel.

And Shemp...what if Dark Cobra can do it blinfolded?

[compjan]

Originally posted by Dark Cobra
I can shove a penny 3/4ths up my nose.

Let's see the video tape!

[Supercharts]

If you can shove a nickle up your nose and get 5 pennies to come out I'd be impressed. :)

[Blue Monk]

Originally posted by kayimbo
uh i can't figure out how to post them. IM me on aim at truekimbo and i'll send you a couple.

yeah i know videos don't count

I tried to write this yesterday but the servers were down.

If you have some videos in digital format send me a personal message or post here.

I have a server and I would be more than happy to post them for you so you can show an example of your claim.

Even though we agree that they don't count as proof I am sure that I am not the only one here who would like to see them anyway.

[Blue Monk]

Here are some video clips kayimbo has sent me demonstrating his claim.

I would like to make it clear that he fully understands that these videos do not count as proof but that he is merely providing them as a demonstration and plans to apply for the challenge.

tool2.avi (http://www.inlex.net/bluemonk/kayimbo/tool2.avi) 843kb

Video2.avi (http://www.inlex.net/bluemonk/kayimbo/Video2.avi) 860kb

There may be some more forthcoming as we are still having some problems tranfering larger files.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Those were nice videos.

I'd be more impressed if you could form psi-balls however.

[Pyrrho]

Old trick, actually. The paper is balanced on the point; convection currents in the air make the paper move. Even the heat from the person's fingers, shown in close proximity to the papers in the video, can cause convection currents sufficient to cause motion. The device should be isolated by covering it with a jar, and mounted on something to dampen vibrations.

[NoZed Avenger]

Evewn covered in glass, you must be careful to avoid convection or the transfer of heat.

I would go with a small vacuum chamber to avoid any air currents or convection type currents.

NA

[Pyrrho]

Here's an old but relevant sci.skeptic thread:

paper wheel experiment (http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=3988b395.177361367%40cnews.newsguy.com&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DWwu777%2Btelekinesis%2Bgroup:sci.skep tic%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26group%3Dsci.skeptic%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3D3988 b395.177361367%2540cnews.newsguy.com%26rnum%3D3)

One could set up one of these in a low-light room and try to mentally move the vanes:

http://www.sciencekits.com/AF00100.GIF

[GroundStrength]

Obvious Issues

1) Your hand is on the table (in the second clip).

2) Your mouth is not in view (in either clip).

3) It spins in only one direction (blowing).

Took guts to post em though, I'll give you that.

Scott

PS
I've got a couple of nice ones of me floating a dollar bill and of me floating in the air.

[PinkRabbit]

I can't help but notice that both videos are shot at an angle that makes it all too easy to hide a mechanism for supporting the paper.

Barb

[kayimbo]

good god poeple. i'm not asking YOU to believe anything. of course i could have faked it, the entire scene could be a digital forgery with me not even really there.

i've got another vid of me spinning a straw i'm going to get someone to get that person to put up, right now i'm practicing again so in a day to a week i should be able to make a vid of me spinning it under a glass. not that i'm proving it, i just feel like having a vid to show my friends.

jeez, such skeptics.

and i can make psiballs by the way

[compjan]

Originally posted by kayimbo
good god poeple. i'm not asking YOU to believe anything. of course i could have faked it, the entire scene could be a digital forgery with me not even really there.

i've got another vid of me spinning a straw i'm going to get someone to get that person to put up, right now i'm practicing again so in a day to a week i should be able to make a vid of me spinning it under a glass. not that i'm proving it, i just feel like having a vid to show my friends.


Are you planning to take the Challenge? Videos won't be part of it, so practice your skills for a live demonstration.


jeez, such skeptics.

<..>

Ha, ha, good one!

CompJan

[NoZed Avenger]

Originally posted by kayimbo
good god poeple. i'm not asking YOU to believe anything. of course i could have faked it, the entire scene could be a digital forgery with me not even really there.

You were up front with saying you knew this -- don't worry about it. Most of the comments were merely tryiung to think about how to ensure a proper test.

When/if you apply, you'll need to think about controlling for different possibilities -- vibration, air current, involuntary movement, etc. -- it was more of an intellectual exercise thinking about possible problems with test design; I don't think most were trying to bust your chops.

Good luck!


and i can make psiballs by the way

I can make highballs -- we'll need to talk.


NA

[Chaon]

What's a psiball?

[UnrepentantSinner]

Originally posted by kayimbo
and i can make psiballs by the way

Now that I want to see video of!

And if you don't mind me asking you a typing related question? How old are you?

[kayimbo]

hmm yeah i didn't think about that. sorry for getting defensive.

i'll do some vids with tiny peices of paper around it so you can see its not air currents. i guess i could also wear a face mask, change directions (if you look real close at the second video you can see it doing that), also i can assemble a normal screw and a normal peice of paper and so on and so on. i get paid tomorow so thats when i'll go to the notary.

i'm 19.

psiballs are easy, flaring (making them visible) is a little harder, i've done it once or twice but i can't do it at will yet, and even then no video or picture would prove it.




happy trails

[reprise]

As you're aware, no amount of videos comprise part of the challenge process, so while we might enjoy watching them, they aren't going to get you any closer to the $1 million even if everyone here is convinced that they are genuine.

Where JREF can be of enormous benefit is helping you with ideas for constructing preliminary tests which would meet the terms of the challenge and be acceptable to both yourself and the Foundation, and I get the idea that is pretty much what you're seeking from us - help with writing a proposal which isn't going to get thrown in the bin because the test conditions are absurd. Am I on the right track?

[Blue Monk]

Originally posted by reprise
As you're aware, no amount of videos comprise part of the challenge process, so while we might enjoy watching them, they aren't going to get you any closer to the $1 million even if everyone here is convinced that they are genuine.


He understands that and has stated so.

Plus it's been pointed out to him repeatedly, hehe.

He's providing the videos soley for our information and understands the rules quite well.

[Blue Monk]

Originally posted by kayimbo
hmm yeah i didn't think about that. sorry for getting defensive.

Don't worry about that. Some who come here with claims can be quite antagonistic so a lot of us are a little bit quick on the draw, hehe.

Most here will return polite behavior in kind even if they may be skeptical of your claims and you have been nothing but cordial with me so I hope everyone will treat you fairly.

[kayimbo]

i'm posting here because i know alot of poeple that can do much more than just spin pinwheels so i'm trying to get as much attention on the fact that i'm legitmately taking the challenge.

it just seemed like a good step towards getting a million dollars to try and get other poeple focused on my application.

hmm, i would also very much like help in how to word the application and all.

[Dub]

Can you get a video of you moving something:

a) that could not be moved via convection currents (from the heat of your hands) or other air movements, such as someone blowing on it?
b) when you not right next to it? (like 10 foot away)

Also, why not find some of those 'other people' that can perform telekinesis. If you dont pass the test perhaps they will.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Originally posted by kayimbo
i'm posting here because i know alot of poeple that can do much more than just spin pinwheels so i'm trying to get as much attention on the fact that i'm legitmately taking the challenge.

it just seemed like a good step towards getting a million dollars to try and get other poeple focused on my application.

hmm, i would also very much like help in how to word the application and all.

Although I'm much more interested in the Psi-Balls, let me give you a little advice on the application. You see, in order to win, there's only one two-part condition - Make a paranormal claim, demonstrate said claim.

If you keep it simple, you will make the whole process easier on you.

Instead of "I am telekinetic," say "I can move objects with only the power of my mind."

Instead of "I can shoot Psi-Balls," say "I can create globes of psychic engergy in my hands and throw or manipulate them."

Keep the wording simple and use common speech, not slang or terms to describe your claim even if it means your claim is wordier.

[roger]

kayimbo,

the problem that most of us notice is that what you are doing is _very_ easy to do using known physics. Other posters have mentioned some of the methods.

I wouldn't bother making new videos with paper bits strewn around to 'prove' you aren't using air currents. Moving bits of paper requires quite a bit of force to move (relative to a spinning paper) due to friction, wind resistance, and possibly static electricity. It won't get you any closer to the million dollars. I'd concentrate on getting that money, if I were you.

Does your ability require your hand to be close to the object as depicted in the videos? If so, I can't think of any cheap way to prove that the effect is not due to body heat and air currents. What is the maximum distance at which you can get this effect.

The spinning paper, while sensitive to small forces, is a fairly crude device. Look into Cavendish torsion balances, which are used to measure gravatational force, which is _extremely_ weak. This page tells how to build a pretty nice one in your home http://www.fourmilab.ch/gravitation/foobar/.

The problem is that this balance will be very sensitive to your body and stray air currents, as well as temperature differences. The article mentions these effects.


Think about this claim carefully. Have _you_ proven that these very basic, well-known physics is not the cause of the effect? If you have, then it will be easy to write up a good application. Just tell us how you proved it, and we can easily generate the language for the application.

If you _haven't_ proven this yet, might I suggest you do this before proceding with the claim. I understand your eagerness for the million, but it'll be embarrasing for you if it turns out you are wrong, and, as far as I am concerned, a bit unethical to waste Randi's time.

This is not an attempt to argue w/ you about whether you can do what you claim; I have no interest in such a discussion. But it is an attempt to point out that what is shown in the video is very, very likely to happen due to well-known physics. A successful application and test will have to prove that these effects are not what is causing the movement.

I'd be happy to elaborate on the physics if you need a better explanation, or to help with wording on the application.

Also, I know Randi will help refine the nature of the test procedures, as long as you very clearly describe what you do, and what will constitute a failure and success.

"I can exert small forces, sufficient to move small objects, solely with my mind. I have built an apparatus (describe it...). I can make the paper spin by (describe it...).

A successful test shall consist of me making the paper move, on command, 10 times in a row. The command shall specify the direction of rotation. The movement will commece within 5 seconds. When told to stop, the movement will cease within 10 seconds. The "movement" must consist of the paper spinning at leat 720 degrees. There will be a mark on the paper to facilitate measuring this.

Failure to do this during any of the 10 trials shall constitute failure"

That probably doesn't exactly fit what you need, but it's a start. Its a clear description of what you do, how it is tested, and what is required to pass, and to fail.

I don't think Randi will accept this experiment, since it is so easy to do it with normal physics, but it should give you an idea of how to proceed.

hope this helps.
roger

[Tesserat]

kayimbo,
I think roger has a very good point when he mentions stopping the rotation as part of the test. It's a good thing to try yourself, stopping and starting the rotation, and changing the direction of rotation.

I hope you do win the million. I don't believe that powers like that exist, but if they ever are proven to exist, I'd be first in line to Learn how to do it.

[kayimbo]

ah i didn't realise that he would accept or deny experiments.

basically speaking all i can do is tell the pinwheel to spin, and then it does it. as of right now i can't really control its stopping or starting, except by leaving the room possibly.

when i send in my application i have to talk about vaccume devices and all that?

and i mean, its pretty obvious that if poeple think its body heat then every time i put my hand near it the pinwheel should spin. which it wouldn't

[kayimbo]

oh yeah, but what i can do is make the pinwheel spin indefintely in a single direction. would it be a good application to state that i would cause the pinwheel to spin in a single direction in an obviously paranormal way, and then i'd stop and the pinwheel could be observed when i'm not acting on it, then i'd start the pinwheel rotating again for like a couple minutes.

[Tesserat]

kayimbo

yes, spinning in a single direction, if it's done by paranormal means, is enough to win the prize. There do have to be some controls. Can you do the same thing if you put a transparent water glass over the disk? Something like that would eliminate
wind effects.

You should control for electrostatic, light and thermal effects as well.

If you have to put your hand close to the wheel to get it to start turning, then the things you have to eliminate as possibile factors are the heat from your hand, any electrostatic charge, and the air movements caused by you bringing your hand near to the disk.

[NoZed Avenger]

Originally posted by kayimbo
ah i didn't realise that he would accept or deny experiments.

basically speaking all i can do is tell the pinwheel to spin, and then it does it. as of right now i can't really control its stopping or starting, except by leaving the room possibly.

when i send in my application i have to talk about vaccume devices and all that?



k:

You won't have to mentiona ll that in the app itself -- the initial app should describe what you can do for the test. (i.e., you can cause a wheel to rotate through pk). If there is a size, weight, or material that you are limited to, you may want to list that.

After the basic claim is made, you and Randi or his representative will have to agree on safeguards to eliminate any outside influences. Most of the above thread was simply people speculating on what might be needed to ensure that air currents or heat, etc., could be eliminated as a cause.

You may want to include some mention on these safeguards, because the original test with a paper wheel is a well-known way that any, many people have managed to deceive themselves with. Frankly, it is so common that Randi may not show much interest unless you have worked to test yourself under controlled conditions, as well. I do not know that for a fact, but I do recall some dicussions a while back on sci.skeptic regarding this test and how easy it is for tiny, tiny heat variations and air movements to fool the test-taker, even where thoise changes were so small that they were unnoticed by the test-taker.

So, if you can duplicate your test with more controls in place -- especially if you can find a friendly university lab with a small vacuum chamber, for example -- the better your chances are at getting Randi's attention.

NA

[Lord Kenneth]

I can shoot psi balls out of my ass.

[Kevin_Lowe]

Originally posted by Dark Cobra
I can shoot psi balls out of my ass.

So post the videos.

[Dub]

I just made a pin wheel like the ones in your videos. I can get it spinning just from the heat of my hand. It will also spin with the absolutely tinnest amount of air movement - breathing even slightl away from it will set it off. I had to hold my breathe to stop it spinning. Then, with my breathe held, the heat of my hand starts it off. I dont have a webcam so I cant show anyone, but if anyone esle wants to make one just get a small square of papaer, fold it from each corner to corner, and place it on the center of a free standing pin. You will then have your very own spinning wheel.

[roger]

Originally posted by kayimbo
ah i didn't realise that he would accept or deny experiments.

basically speaking all i can do is tell the pinwheel to spin, and then it does it. as of right now i can't really control its stopping or starting, except by leaving the room possibly.

when i send in my application i have to talk about vaccume devices and all that?

and i mean, its pretty obvious that if poeple think its body heat then every time i put my hand near it the pinwheel should spin. which it wouldn't

I don't speak for Randi, but based on his commentaries, he really does seem to go out of his way communicating with the applicant trying to design an appropriate experiment. I suspect that most people who apply don't know how to appropriately test their claim.

My example was just that - an example. If you can't make it change directions, or start/stop on command, then obviously it is not fair to require you to do that in a test. To be tested, both you and Randi would have to agree to the test procedure. I don't know exactly what you can and can't do, so there is no way that my example could exactly apply to your case. I probably got carried away in trying to design the experiment - that's more Randi's job, not yours.

I would suggest that you learn about the physics of what is happening, however. So far, everything that you have described is easy to duplicate with ordinary physics.

Have you asked yourself why you can't make it start/stop at will, if you are in fact exerting the force paranormally, rather than by normal means. (that's not something you have to answer, either on this board or for the challenge). If it is physics, then you learn that you don't have the power, but if it is paranormal, perhaps you will learn to extend and control your power better.

The point remains, though - what you are doing in the video is very easy to duplicate (see Dub's post). The test will require a lot more from you to demonstrate that the force is paranormal, and not the forces already described in this thread. I can't see Randi getting too interested in testing you at this stage (but I don't speak for him).

good luck!

[kayimbo]

perhaps my pinwheel is less sensitive then yours, it niether moves from my breathing nor from holding my hand near it, not even from moving my hand around it.

anyways, thanks for all the help guys, i've begun practicing spinning it rom inside of barriers so that when the test comes i'll be able to do it in a vacum chamber.

as i make progress i'll find a way to post videos so you don't think i'm backing out.

[compjan]

Originally posted by kayimbo
perhaps my pinwheel is less sensitive then yours, it niether moves from my breathing nor from holding my hand near it, not even from moving my hand around it.

anyways, thanks for all the help guys, i've begun practicing spinning it rom inside of barriers so that when the test comes i'll be able to do it in a vacum chamber.

as i make progress i'll find a way to post videos so you don't think i'm backing out.

No problem! Looking forward to hearing how you do when you take the challenge. Good luck.

compjan

[compjan]

Kayimbo, any progress on the application?

[UnrepentantSinner]

http://www.ntskeptics.org/2003/2003may/may2003.htm#mind

Chronicles a very similar claim about telekinesis. The guy didn't win the $10,000.

[Stainless_Steel_Rat]

If you truely believe you are telekentic, why not try moving an object that weighs the same amount, but has a much smaller surface area? This way you can eliminate some of the questions of air currents. As people have pointed out, even in a sealed container convection can move a light object with a lot of surface area.

Good luck with your claim.

SSR

[compjan]

Originally posted by kayimbo
perhaps my pinwheel is less sensitive then yours, it niether moves from my breathing nor from holding my hand near it, not even from moving my hand around it.

anyways, thanks for all the help guys, i've begun practicing spinning it rom inside of barriers so that when the test comes i'll be able to do it in a vacum chamber.

as i make progress i'll find a way to post videos so you don't think i'm backing out.

Kayimbo, any progress on the challenge? Is your main concern now figuring out a challenge protocol or doing the videos?

CompJan

[Spektator]

I was looking forward to either Edge or Kayimbo trying the challenge. Guess I'm just due for disappointment lately.

[Nucular]

Originally posted by kayimbo
anyways, thanks for all the help guys, i've begun practicing spinning it rom inside of barriers so that when the test comes i'll be able to do it in a vacum chamber.How will you breathe?

[Hazelip]

Originally posted by kayimbo
and i can make psiballs by the way

Can I have your recipe?

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
I can shoot psi balls out of my ass.
Hmmm, I wonder if this has anything to do with LuxFerum's old avatar...

[AlienX]

I don't understand why we have people bothering reporting this sort of stuff
in the first place without removing all the known physical influences first.

Why do we have this "progression" idea? - it makes no sense at all - jump to the end and skip all the irrelevent "experiments".

I dont really get the - well i can move it then im going to try the next on the list:-

1. Out in the open.
2. In a bell jar (not under Vacuum)
3. In a bell jar (under Vacuum)
4. As 3 but on a vibration absorbing surface.

For me prior to trying any proper test i would at least do 4 on my own, any of the others
are to be blunt pointless effort.

For me to even attempt the test i would have at least produced a stable system at home for several days which showed the "pinwheel" to not move at all while not under the "influence" of your mind.

A suggestion would be to mak the pinwheel NSEW, when it comes to rest mark the container it is in lining up with NSEW and leave it alone. Periodically check that the pinwheel is still lined up over the course of a few days, then when you are certain it's a stable system try your powers on it.

If you get it to move - allow it to come to rest again - and mark up the container and check repeat the procedure at the start.
So you show the following phases.

1. No movement for a few days prior.
2. Influence Phase.
3 No Movement for a few days post.

So any movement seen in the "non influence" phases would invalidate the test for me and really should do for you also.

If you can't get a stable system (it always moves anyway) post here and i'm sure you will get pointers as to how you can modify the experiment to make it less prone to external influences - other than your mind of course ;-).

AlienX

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by AlienX
I don't understand why we have people bothering reporting this sort of stuff
in the first place without removing all the known physical influences first.

Why do we have this "progression" idea? - it makes no sense at all - jump to the end and skip all the irrelevent "experiments".

*snip*The reason for this is that these people do not want their ability to be disproved. The approach you mention will disprove it conclusively (unless they really have it :rolleyes: ) once and for all.

By using this stepwise approach, then, when they reach a step that does not function, they can revert to the previous steps and base their denial on that. It is a VERY common pattern.


Hans