Why are most comedians liberal?

[thaiboxerken]

I really can't think of any conservative comedians. Why is this the case? Do they not exist, or do I just not find conservatives funny?

[Darat]

How do you know the political views of the comedians you do like?

[thaiboxerken]

from the material, Darat.

[Darat]

Isn't that like judging an actor's political views from their performances?

[thaiboxerken]

Ok, then why is most comedy material liberal?

[The Don]

Comedy often gets a laugh from attacking the status quo. The current status quo is conservative, as a result comedy would tend to be liberal.

[thaiboxerken]

Comedy often gets a laugh from attacking the status quo. The current status quo is conservative, as a result comedy would tend to be liberal.

I doubt this reason, since comedians as long as I can remember have been liberal.

We did have a democratic present before Bush.

[money]

I think Drew Carey is conservative...

[Ian Osborne]

What about racist comedians like Jim Davidson, Bernard Manning and even Eddie Murphy? They're hardly liberal. Sexist jokes aren't exactly thin on the ground either - there's nothing liberal about Jethro, Chubby Brown or Jimmy Tarbuck.

[monoman]

I think the liberal views that make for the material are what many right wingers on these forums would agree with – religion, gay marriage, right to abortion, race etc.

It’s hard to tell if they are fiscally conservative, though, because jokes about trade deficits and the IMF just aren’t that funny.

That aside I do believe that most popular comedians are purely liberal. I think this is due to the fact that conservative comedians tend to take the piss out of other people and liberal comedians tend to take the piss out of themselves (personally and as a nation). This is a defining feature of the west (as far as I can tell, UK, USA and Australia)* and something that left and right wingers alike can relate to.

*Any non English speaking Europeans out there can tell me if your comedy is self deprecating as well

[Morrison's Lament]

Chris Rock is extremely socially conservative if his material is anything to go by, and he doesn't really comment on economic issues. I still find him very funny, just wrong ;)

--- G.

[Charlie Monoxide]

IIRC I read on Rush Limbaugh's web site that he considers himself a comedic political commentator.

That's almost true except for the comedy part.

Charlie (Rush channeling Franken) Monoxide

[KingMerv00]

I heard Jeff Foxworthy on a radio talk show a few weeks ago...turns out he is conservative.

I was SHOCKED.

[Upchurch]

Comedy often gets a laugh from attacking the status quo. The current status quo is conservative, as a result comedy would tend to be liberal.
Actually, conservatism pretty much means "to maintain the status quo" while liberalism is to challenge the status quo. Modern uses of the terms can very from that a bit, but that is more or less what they mean.

Comedy is usally derived from doing the unexpected. Physical and prop comedy aside, that means challenging the social and political status quo.

[Jocko]

I really can't think of any conservative comedians. Why is this the case? Do they not exist, or do I just not find conservatives funny?

Dennis Miller is very high-profile (i.e., openly declared) exception.

[Ladewig]

Dennis Miller stopped doing Bush jokes a few years ago. I think it was because of his political views.
Curse you , Jocko for being so fast

Also, keep in mind that everyone who makes fun of Bush is not doing so because of a dislike of Bush's political perspective. Many might be making fun of him becuase it is so easy to do, e.g. misunderestimate.

There were tons and tons of jokes about Clinton right after his testimony, but that doesn't mean all professional comedians became right-wingers.

[Cleon]

Dennis Miller stopped doing Bush jokes a few years ago. I think it was because of his political views.


Yes, but he stopped being funny (which I believe is a prerequisite for the "comedian" job title) a long time before he became a born-again conservative.

[Dr Adequate]

To be a comedian, you need a keen sense of what's ridiculous. I think that explains it all, really.

[Morrison's Lament]

Dennis Leary is another conservative comedian.

--- G.

[Mark]

Seems to me most comedians are pretty apolitical in that they'll have a go at whomever will get a good laugh. I certainly have not noticed a preponderance of "liberal" comedians.

[pgwenthold]

Andrew Dice Clay isn't quite the sensitive liberal type.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Bueller... Bueller...

[rikzilla]

Comedy often gets a laugh from attacking the status quo. The current status quo is conservative, as a result comedy would tend to be liberal.

Exactly right. I know; for instance; that the amount of politically linked
d!ck jokes went south with the ending of Clinton's term. :D

-z

[Cleon]

Exactly right. I know; for instance; that the amount of politically linked
d!ck jokes went south with the ending of Clinton's term. :D


Well, there is Dick Cheney...

[rikzilla]

Well, there is Dick Cheney...


Ahh yes...there have been many infamous and crooked Dicks in the WhiteHouse! But for your Cheney dick joke to be funny it'd have to have that good ole liberal spin...as per the OP.

-z

[Cleon]

Ahh yes...there have been many infamous and crooked Dicks in the WhiteHouse! But for your Cheney dick joke to be funny it'd have to have that good ole liberal spin...as per the OP.


Oh, right...Because you can't make fun of conservatives without "liberal spin."

Aw, who am I kidding, I can't hold it in...

:dl:

[Mark]

Oh, right...Because you can't make fun of conservatives without "liberal spin."

Aw, who am I kidding, I can't hold it in...

:dl:

Don't you understand? If anything appears in the media that is even mildy critical of any Republican, it has to be because of liberal spin/bias.

If they write something in praise of Republicans it is because they are merely pandering. It's like a perfect circle.

[rikzilla]

Don't you understand? If anything appears in the media that is even mildy critical of any Republican, it has to be because of liberal spin/bias.

If they write something in praise of Republicans it is because they are merely pandering. It's like a perfect circle.

Well Mark, your virginity is most certainly intact when it comes to that kind of pandering! Your liberal credentials are unsoiled by any attempt at fairness.

-z

[Ohmer]

Carlos Mencia. He mostly bashes political correctness. He's also not affraid to tell a mexican to "get a job" with a megaphone on the streets of Los Angeles.

[Manny]

Actually, now that I think about it, comedy might be one of the performing arts with the largest number of "out" conservatives (or at least conservative about some stuff) who have attained significant success. To be sure, there's no shortage of funny liberal comedians either.

[Mark]

Well Mark, your virginity is most certainly intact when it comes to that kind of pandering! Your liberal credentials are unsoiled by any attempt at fairness.

-z

Thank you. I have no idea what you are getting at, but certainly appreciate you taking the time to scrawl.

:)

[gnome]

IIRC I read on Rush Limbaugh's web site that he considers himself a comedic political commentator.

That's almost true except for the comedy part.

Charlie (Rush channeling Franken) Monoxide

The scary part is, when he isn't talking about politics, he can be funny and charming. Seriously.

[casebro]

To put it succinctly, because the audiences find liberal concepts laughable?

[Jocko]

Yes, but he stopped being funny (which I believe is a prerequisite for the "comedian" job title) a long time before he became a born-again conservative.

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing about George Carlin, and how he stopped being funny when he started to actually believe in his own liberal bitterness.

[demon]

thaiboxerken:
"I really can't think of any conservative comedians."


Anne Coulter springs to mind.

[Euromutt]

I think Drew Carey is conservative...He's a libertarian, actually.

[Mephisto]

To put it succinctly, because the audiences find liberal concepts laughable?

You're probably right - there's nothing funny about war, torture, death, destruction OR Mom, God and apple pie.

[Tmy]

Conservatives have no sense of humor. They are wound to tight!

[punchdrunk]

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing about George Carlin, and how he stopped being funny when he started to actually believe in his own liberal bitterness.

Sad but true. His latest HBO special was a sorry reconstitution of his past paranoid ramblings but without the humor. I'm all for conspiratorial ramblings, but dammit, you got to be funny when you're doing it.

He looked a little lost and a lot old and tired. :(

[Phrost]

Penn and Teller minus a rabbit and a hat could be considered comedians, and they're fiscally conservative (Libertarian).

I find Michael Savage to be one of the best comedians of his generation.

[epepke]

Matt Stone and Trey Parker of South Park fame are both Republicans, and I have a record by Vaughn Meader (but he did his stuff a long time ago).

Someone mentioned Andrew Dice Clay, but he's really more of a burlesque artist than a comedian. By that I mean that when George Carlin or Carlos Mencia or Chris Rock give a performance, it's them talking, whereas when Clay gives a performance, he's playing a character of his own invention.

[billydkid]

I think Drew Carey is conservative...

Drew is a libertarian.

[thaiboxerken]

Wow, it's hard to tell that some of these "conservative" comedians are conservative, particularly when they are making fun of the Bush administration and the religious Right.

[gnome]

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing about George Carlin, and how he stopped being funny when he started to actually believe in his own liberal bitterness.

I think his comedy is suffering more from his bitterness than from his politics, but that's just my opinion. When he delves into language he continues the fine work that caused him to appeal to me in the first place.

Politically speaking, he hits the Right pretty hard... but he's not quite a loony lefty either--you'll see him bash PC language with equal harshness, as well as new-age "feel-good" ideas that are more likely to be heard from the left.

[RandFan]

Wow, it's hard to tell that some of these "conservative" comedians are conservative, particularly when they are making fun of the Bush administration and the religious Right. I think the point is that many are not liberal and also that many attack liberal positions. Carlos Mencia (http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/mind_of_mencia/index.jhtml) is a great example. He attacks Bush but his humour is a scathing indictment of political correctness.

[Cain]

Larry the Cable Guy is a conservative -- and a homophobic, racist, gun-loving nut case. Or what about Jim Norton and the detestable Nick Depalo? I'm sure they vote Republican, but I doubt they attend church on Sundays.

A disproportionate number of comedians are also Jewish and black -- not exactly the base of the Republican Party. One can probably further assume (with some reason) that a disproportionate number either grew up in an urban area, or moved to an urban center by their 20s.

As far as Chris Rock and the painfully unfunny Carlos Mencia are concerned... I would be very surprised if they vote Republican, or more closely identify with the Republican Party than the Democratic Party (note: Democrat != liberal).

Also, attacking that vague boogey word "political correctness" is not any indication of one's political sympathies (see for instance Bill Maher).

[Year Zero]

I really can't think of any conservative comedians. Why is this the case? Do they not exist, or do I just not find conservatives funny?


What about Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh? Those guys are comedians, right? Please tell me those guys aren't serious.

[Walter Wayne]

Actually, conservatism pretty much means "to maintain the status quo" while liberalism is to challenge the status quo. Modern uses of the terms can very from that a bit, but that is more or less what they mean.

Comedy is usally derived from doing the unexpected. Physical and prop comedy aside, that means challenging the social and political status quo.Conservative in the political sense doesn't mean "maintain the status quo." It was that long ago that the swing was more to the left. It wasn't cool to politically incorrect; I suspect more so in Canada than the states. So were the politicians and people finding against that suddenly liberals because the leftward swing. Those on the right certainly still refered to the other side as liberal, and the left certainly refered to the other side as consertatives. (At least when they weren't calling each other $%^@ and !$%^@#).

Liberal tends to mean socially liberal (people can do what they want) and Conservative tends to mean liberal in economic policies (business can do what they want - free market)

Back on topic. I suspect that all comedians have free speech close to their heart, and I am sure when you notice the world doesn't crumble after a few jokes about odd sexual practices, one gets rather indifferent to things other people do and say that don't directly affect you. As such you are by definition going to be socially liberal. Back before the religious right had the current sway it does, one could be socially liberal and call your self a Republican. However in todays climate someone who is socially liberal is consider either liberal or libertarian, depending on their economic politics.

Hence few comedians consider themselves conservative/republican.

Walt

[New Ager]

IIRC I read on Rush Limbaugh's web site that he considers himself a comedic political commentator.

That's almost true except for the comedy part.

Charlie (Rush channeling Franken) Monoxide

Then you must not listen to Rush or have a sense of humor.

Rush has some of the funniest satirical comedy ever on radio.

I guess it strikes to close to home when he makes fun of liberals.

Strangely, when jokes are told about President Bush, you don't seem to mind.

[thaiboxerken]

Then you must not listen to Rush or have a sense of humor.

Rush has some of the funniest satirical comedy ever on radio.

I guess it strikes to close to home when he makes fun of liberals.

.

I don't consider hate speech to be funny.

[New Ager]

Don't you understand? If anything appears in the media that is even mildy critical of any Republican, it has to be because of liberal spin/bias.

Sadly, most of the time, this is true. Liberals aren't about fairness or telling the truth.

[New Ager]

The scary part is, when he isn't talking about politics, he can be funny and charming. Seriously.

Occasionally, a liberal will learn something.

Do you think any of your other liberal friends will learn anything?

Well, I hope they don't. They might actually win an election one day. :)

[Year Zero]

Then you must not listen to Rush or have a sense of humor.

Rush has some of the funniest satirical comedy ever on radio.

I guess it strikes to close to home when he makes fun of liberals.

Strangely, when jokes are told about President Bush, you don't seem to mind.


If you are calling Rush funny or an entertainer, I totally agree. But that's not the problem I have with him. I was a dittohead for several years, from age 11 to about 13(I've been interested in politics since 9, growing up in a very idealistic home). I still listen to him and other conservatives to check up on them. What I have seen, coupled with my memories, is rather disturbing.

People like Rush and Sean ARE entertainers, yet they constantly, almost to cult-like extents, reassure their audiences that they are well-informed. They warn against the "liberal media" to the extent that anything contrary to their party line is labelled "liberal". This label has been used to basically call something false or say someone is lying without actually have to provide any evidence to that effect.

In recent times I've paid a lot of attention to the massive errors people like Hannity and Rush have put out. And I delved into my own experience to figure out what is really going on here(aside from the disturbing trend of numerous local and syndicated conservative hosts harping on the same talking points with eerily similar use of terms). The best way I can describe it is something I refer to as the "Seems True" factor.

Basically it works like this: You have a problem facing your party line. You concoct an explanation that is logical at face value. You repeat the claim a few times, make fun of the opposing claim, suggest that proponents of the other claim have a hidden agenda, etc.

But the key factor is create something that sounds logical up front; most people won't check the details. This tactic can and is used by many groups, often times on the left as well. However, amongst the leading left-wing radio show hosts I have found them to be much better fact checkers when I do research into their claims.

[New Ager]

I don't consider hate speech to be funny.

LOL!! So anything critical of liberals is hate speech?!??!

Rush doesn't hate anyone and has never used hate speech.
In fact, all the hate comes from the left, the supposed tolerant bunch. And when it comes to the Religious Right or George Bush, they tend to lose their tolerance.

You really need to put your liberal playbook down. It's really embarrassing. Do you have any thoughts of your own?

[Year Zero]

I don't consider hate speech to be funny.


As much as people like Hannity and Rush are lying gas-bags, we should stay away from loaded terms like "hate"-speech. Loaded language is meant to suppress thought by attaching moral connotations to certain words, and then using those words to refer to all sorts of things.

A more accurate term would be "misleading" speech, because people like Rush convince their audience that: A. Their speech is not incredibly biased in favor of one side. and B. The audience is well informed.

[aerosolben]

I think the point is that many are not liberal and also that many attack liberal positions. Carlos Mencia (http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/mind_of_mencia/index.jhtml) is a great example. He attacks Bush but his humour is a scathing indictment of political correctness.
Carlos "I said 'beaner' again!" Mencia's humor is a scathing indictment of Carlos Mencia's comedic career.

[Year Zero]

Carlos "I said 'beaner' again!" Mencia's humor is a scathing indictment of Carlos Mencia's comedic career.


Come on dude, the guy's got a show on Comedy Central- how could he possibly NOT suck?

[New Ager]

(Year Zero)

If you are calling Rush funny or an entertainer, I totally agree.

(New Ager)

He combines a serious discussion of the issues with satire. It's the best of the both worlds. And it's why he's the most listened to radio talkshow in history.

(Zero)

But that's not the problem I have with him. I was a dittohead for several years, from age 11 to about 13(I've been interested in politics since 9, growing up in a very idealistic home). I still listen to him and other conservatives to check up on them. What I have seen, coupled with my memories, is rather disturbing.
People like Rush and Sean ARE entertainers, yet they constantly, almost to cult-like extents, reassure their audiences that they are well-informed. They warn against the "liberal media" to the extent that anything contrary to their party line is labelled "liberal".

(New Ager)

LOL!! Sorry, but that's not what they do. They expose the liberal lies on a daily basis, because well, liberals lie on a daily basis.

(Zero)

This label has been used to basically call something false or say someone is lying without actually have to provide any evidence to that effect.

(New Ager)

Sorry, but Rush provides evidence on his show all the time. And he was right on Bill Clinton for 8 years.

(Zero)

In recent times I've paid a lot of attention to the massive errors people like Hannity and Rush have put out.
(New Ager)

Examples?!?

(Zero)

And I delved into my own experience to figure out what is really going on here(aside from the disturbing trend of numerous local and syndicated conservative hosts harping on the same talking points with eerily similar use of terms).

(New Ager)

Unlike the major liberal media outlets who use the same word for the day.

(Zero)

The best way I can describe it is something I refer to as the "Seems True" factor.
Basically it works like this: You have a problem facing your party line.

(New Ager)

Rush is a conservative and does not work for the party.

(Zero)

You concoct an explanation that is logical at face value. You repeat the claim a few times, make fun of the opposing claim, suggest that proponents of the other claim have a hidden agenda, etc.

(New Ager)

This sounds like the liberal tricks.

(Zero)

But the key factor is create something that sounds logical up front; most people won't check the details. This tactic can and is used by many groups, often times on the left as well. However, amongst the leading left-wing radio show hosts I have found them to be much better fact checkers when I do research into their claims.

(New Ager)

Well, I haven't found this to be true. In fact, I can't think of hardly anything that liberals are right about.

I think you've been brainwashed by liberalism.

[RandFan]

Carlos "I said 'beaner' again!" Mencia's humor is a scathing indictment of Carlos Mencia's comedic career. Yeah, that is why Comedy Central gave him his own career. That is why the featured him prominently on their last laugh '05 show.

I wish I could fail like that.

[RandFan]

LOL!! So anything critical of liberals is hate speech?!??!

Rush doesn't hate anyone and has never used hate speech.
In fact, all the hate comes from the left, the supposed tolerant bunch. And when it comes to the Religious Right or George Bush, they tend to lose their tolerance.

You really need to put your liberal playbook down. It's really embarrassing. Do you have any thoughts of your own? I'm going to agree with this. Some of the most hateful stuff I have ever heard has come from the left. Many on the left can be as hateful and spiteful as any on the right.

I've listened to Rush for years. He pisses me off sometimes and I don't agree with a lot that he says but he is often damn funny and brings up points no one else will.

Labeling what you don't like as "hate speech" is lazy.

[Year Zero]

(Year Zero)
LOL!! Sorry, but that's not what they do. They expose the liberal lies on a daily basis, because well, liberals lie on a daily basis.

That is exactly the thing I am talking about. For one, liberals do not "lie on a daily basis" but that isn't the important issue at hand. The problem comes from the fact that the term liberal is used in an ambiguous manner on anything or anyone who is not toeing Rush's party line. You cannot deny that they do this repeatedly. Remember I listen to the same show.



(New Ager)

Sorry, but Rush provides evidence on his show all the time. And he was right on Bill Clinton for 8 years.

No I afraid not. Most of Rush's evidence I noticed comes from editorial writers or think tanks. I really do wish I had been listening more during the run-up to the Iraq invasion. We could bury him on that issue alone.



Examples?!?

For a list of examples of Rush's errors see FAIR's book "The Way Things Aren't" at FAIR.ORG. Quotes are provided with dates.

As for lies, how much time do you have? Sean Hannity for example claimed up to six months after the Kaye report that Saddam's WMDs were moved to Syria despite the fact that another report confirmed this didn't happen. That and the claim defies all military logic.

I believe on at least one occasion Rush(Hannity definitely) has repeated the lie that Clinton was offered Bin Laden by the Sudanese government. While the history of Osama Bin Laden is sketchy in some areas, it is a fact that Bin Laden was never in the custody of the Sudanese government with which he was on extremely friendly terms for all his financial and agricultural aid to that country. Bin Laden left due to the threat of sanctions on Sudan if he didn't leave, plus the existence of some militant groups that had attempted to kill him. (The groups literally believed that Bin Laden was "Muslim" enough; I don't recommend running into those guys).

Propagating the claim that Al Gore "invented the internet". Gore never said anything remotely to the effect.

These are just examples of proven lies or lies that are testable. These guys are constantly delving into the realm of speculation, attacking peoples motives and sometimes literally slandering peoples' character.



Unlike the major liberal media outlets who use the same word for the day.

How do you define liberal though? According to Rush, if news stations report car bombs in Iraq they are "anti-war" and thus liberal. However, studies have shown that in the lead up to the war the overwhelming majority of guests on mainstream media outlets were clearly pro-war, and advocating the administration's claims about Iraq. Of the "opposition", many of these guests were found not to be opposed to military action, but simply how that military action would take place.




Rush is a conservative and does not work for the party.

Right, I used to believe that too. Then why is it these guys always seem to be repeating many of the phrases put out by the White House spokesmen, such as "the criminalization of politics". It seems every time the White House comes out with a new claim, like the recent "Hey we all had the same intelligence right?!" canard, the republican pundits all start making the same claims, right down to the same words in some cases.



This sounds like the liberal tricks.

My analysis of conservative and liberal claims about many issues have shown that "liberals" tend to check their facts far better than conservatives. Al Franken, who I disagree with on a myriad of issues, does a good job debunking a lot of claims about the economy, social security, and other issues simply by doing actual research.


(New Ager)

Well, I haven't found this to be true. In fact, I can't think of hardly anything that liberals are right about.

Ask yourself this: "Have I ever even checked?" I accepted loads of claims from people like Rush for years, even after I stopped listening to him regularly for a period in the late 90's. Years later I discovered bit by bit that there was no factual basis in these claims.


I think you've been brainwashed by liberalism.

That's strange logic because I have never been a "liberal". My opposition to people like Rush comes from outrage at the logical fallacies they put out. Not just lies, massive logical fallacies that literally take hours to debunk, which is problematic when we live in a society that prefers slogans and sound bytes.

[RandFan]

Also, attacking that vague boogey word "political correctness" is not any indication of one's political sympathies (see for instance Bill Maher). Hey, as long as it pisses off liberals who take themselves far too seriously I don't care if they are communists.

[fishbob]

Wow, it's hard to tell that some of these "conservative" comedians are conservative, particularly when they are making fun of the Bush administration and the religious Right.
I think you are confusing 'conservative' with 'twit'.

[fishbob]

Sadly, most of the time, this is true. Liberals aren't about fairness or telling the truth.
I think you are confusing 'liberal' with 'twit'.

[thaiboxerken]

I think you are confusing 'conservative' with 'twit'.

The terms are synonymous.

[Earthborn]

I really do wish I had been listening more during the run-up to the Iraq invasion. We could bury him on that issue alone.Well, it's not too late. Everything is archived on his own website (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/eibessential/war_on_terror.html).

Here's how you can read (almost) everything he has said without having to be a member. Download and install the OffByOne webbrowser (http://www.offbyone.com/ob1_download.htm). Click on the URL button and paste in the URL http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/eibessential/war_on_terror.html

If you want to read a story, don't click the link. Instead click with the right mouse button and choose COPY URL. Then click the URL button again and paste the URL. Edit it to delete the "member." part of it and press enter.

[Year Zero]

Well, it's not too late. Everything is archived on his own website (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/eibessential/war_on_terror.html).

Here's how you can read (almost) everything he has said without having to be a member. Download and install the OffByOne webbrowser (http://www.offbyone.com/ob1_download.htm). Click on the URL button and paste in the URL http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/eibessential/war_on_terror.html

If you want to read a story, don't click the link. Instead click with the right mouse button and choose COPY URL. Then click the URL button again and paste the URL. Edit it to delete the "member." part of it and press enter.

That sounds like a good idea. I really expected him to be smarter than to go and do something like that.

[monoman]

Well, it's not too late. Everything is archived on his own website (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/eibessential/war_on_terror.html).

Here's how you can read (almost) everything he has said without having to be a member. Download and install the OffByOne webbrowser (http://www.offbyone.com/ob1_download.htm). Click on the URL button and paste in the URL http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/eibessential/war_on_terror.html

If you want to read a story, don't click the link. Instead click with the right mouse button and choose COPY URL. Then click the URL button again and paste the URL. Edit it to delete the "member." part of it and press enter.

I've just tried the OffByOne browser - how come you don't need to log in with it?

[Earthborn]

I really expected him to be smarter than to go and do something like that.He probably knows nothing about webdesign himself and has (fairly stupid) webdesigners work for him.

I've just tried the OffByOne browser - how come you don't need to log in with it?The 'restricted' webpages are 'secured' using Javascript, which OffByOne does not support. It is supposed to run a small program on your computer that automatically brings up the log-in page if you're not logged in. With no ability to run it, this will not happen. It is pretty stupid having a pay site that is less well protected than most sites that require a free login.

You can probably turn off all scripting in IE or FF and have the same effect, but that might mess up with your normal browser experience.

[monoman]

He probably knows nothing about webdesign himself and has (fairly stupid) webdesigners work for him.

The 'restricted' webpages are 'secured' using Javascript, which OffByOne does not support. It is supposed to run a small program on your computer that automatically brings up the log-in page if you're not logged in. With no ability to run it, this will not happen. It is pretty stupid having a pay site that is less well protected than most sites that require a free login.

You can probably turn off all scripting in IE or FF and have the same effect, but that might mess up with your normal browser experience.

Thanks for that. That's crazy - it's like those sites that have the password embedded in the source!

I like the small size of OffByOne but i'm so used to the mouse gestures (well just the back button one) in FF that i can't live without it.

[Cleon]

LOL!! So anything critical of liberals is hate speech?!??!

And this is somehow more rational than "if anything appears in the media that is even mildy critical of any Republican, it has to be because of liberal spin/bias." You said "most of the time this is true" for that one.

So no, you don't get to laugh at ridiculous platitudes, as you seem to make them more often than most.

[Morrison's Lament]

Just to clear some things up for you guys about particular comedians that have been mentioned here.

Someone said Trey Parker and Matt Stone were Republicans, which is total bullcrap. The only reason anyone would say that is because there is in fact a movement known as "South Park Republicans" - and they indeed love South Park's politics and are Republicans.

Their mistake, of course, is that they are in the wrong party. Trey Parker is a registered member of the Libertarian party, and the material is very much on the non-PC side of that party's agenda. Matt Stone said the founder of that party was one of his heroes, and declared that even though he hated liberals most of all, he also had much hatred for conservatives.

Chris Rock has made headlines and angered blacks many many times for his conservative statements, most of which have admittedly been part of his material. Saying that blacks need to take their money out of rims and put them into stocks. He also said: "On crime I'm conservative, but on prostitution I'm liberal..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Park_Republican
http://www.slate.com/id/2113952/

--- G.

[gnome]

Sadly, most of the time, this is true. Liberals aren't about fairness or telling the truth.

Liars, every one, are we. Can't just disagree.... no, we secretly agree, only we're LYING.

[gnome]

LOL!! So anything critical of liberals is hate speech?!??!

Rush doesn't hate anyone and has never used hate speech.
In fact, all the hate comes from the left, the supposed tolerant bunch. And when it comes to the Religious Right or George Bush, they tend to lose their tolerance.

You really need to put your liberal playbook down. It's really embarrassing. Do you have any thoughts of your own?

," he said, speaking from the Conservative Playbook.

All hate comes from the left. Did you learn to make sweeping generalizations in logic class?

[gnome]

Well, I haven't found this to be true. In fact, I can't think of hardly anything that liberals are right about.

I think you've been brainwashed by liberalism.
I see the problem here... you've noticed that politicians and pundits are full of s**t, but you've mistakenly concluded that only one side is.

I for one can admit that liberals sometimes get it wrong. I wind up on that side because I feel conservatives are wrong more often--but I still pick issue by issue, I don't choose "liberalism" in advance, and then decide based on that every time. I will even say that most of the "rank and file" -- that is, everyday people with conservative beliefs, are sincere... it's the ones with a camera in their face that are full of it. True of my side too.

[Ladewig]

Sorry, but Rush provides evidence on his show all the time. And he was right on Bill Clinton for 8 years.



He was?! You mean Bill and Hillary actually did kill Vince Foster in the White House before rolling his body up in a rug and carrying him to the park?!

[Ladewig]

LOL!! So anything critical of liberals is hate speech?!??!

Rush doesn't hate anyone and has never used hate speech.
In fact, all the hate comes from the left, the supposed tolerant bunch. And when it comes to the Religious Right or George Bush, they tend to lose their tolerance.


Calling Hillary "Hitlery" doesn't count as hate speech? Oh, of course not because it's humor. But when pinheads call Bush "Bushitler" then it is hate speech and not humor.

Calling people "feminazis," I guess is also humor as well. And while we are on the topic of knee-slapping funny, who can forget when Rush made fun of Chelsey Clinton's looks. He's a real class act, that one.

Oh and before I forget, why isn't that self-admitted drug addict on trial? You know he used to be a big supporter of that whole rule-of-law thing with no one being above the law. But now he has accepted help from the ACLU in fighting subpoenas - talk about your strange bedfellows.

[Ladewig]

I see the problem here... you've noticed that politicians and pundits are full of s**t, but you've mistakenly concluded that only one side is.

I for one can admit that liberals sometimes get it wrong. I wind up on that side because I feel conservatives are wrong more often--but I still pick issue by issue, I don't choose "liberalism" in advance, and then decide based on that every time. I will even say that most of the "rank and file" -- that is, everyday people with conservative beliefs, are sincere... it's the ones with a camera in their face that are full of it. True of my side too.

I concur.

[Mark]

Calling Hillary "Hitlery" doesn't count as hate speech? Oh, of course not because it's humor. But when pinheads call Bush "Bushitler" then it is hate speech and not humor.

Calling people "feminazis," I guess is also humor as well. And while we are on the topic of knee-slapping funny, who can forget when Rush made fun of Chelsey Clinton's looks. He's a real class act, that one.

Oh and before I forget, why isn't that self-admitted drug addict on trial? You know he used to be a big supporter of that whole rule-of-law thing with no one being above the law. But now he has accepted help from the ACLU in fighting subpoenas - talk about your strange bedfellows.

Rush is God. Why do you hate America so much?

Btw, you left out his "caller abortions." No hate speech there...

[Lurker]

I think I recognize New Ager from another board I participate on from time to time. His posting style and ideology give him away.

Anyway, New Ager is immune to evidence. I provide him evidence regularly and he always dismisses it. Further, he never provides any evidence himself. In the years I have known him, not once has he used a source other than his own words. Never any citations. Not once.

New Ager also is immune to logic and makes the same logic erros despite them being pointed out to him.

Lurker

[dogjones]

Surprised that no-one's mentioned P J O'Rourke, although I guess he's more of a funny conservative writer than conservative comedian.

[dogjones]

Whoopsie. Double postie.

[luchog]

Yes, but he stopped being funny (which I believe is a prerequisite for the "comedian" job title) a long time before he became a born-again conservative.
Dennis Miller was funny?

[thaiboxerken]

Ok, why is it that the comedians I enjoy most are liberal?

[RandFan]

Ok, why is it that the comedians I enjoy most are liberal? Hmmmm..... :D

[RandFan]

Calling Hillary "Hitlery" doesn't count as hate speech? Oh, of course not because it's humor. But when pinheads call Bush "Bushitler" then it is hate speech and not humor. Who said that calling "Bushitler" was hate speech?

Calling people "feminazis," I guess is also humor as well. And while we are on the topic of knee-slapping funny, who can forget when Rush made fun of Chelsey Clinton's looks. He's a real class act, that one. I always thought humor was subjective. I love the Wayans brothers but I found much of their material directed at the handicapped NOT funny. I don't care that Damon has a clubbed foot. I don't think much of what Howard Stern says is funny.

What does what I think have to do with what is funny or even appropriate?

BTW, Rush can be damn funny. I don't care for everything he says but he is often very funny. Maybe humor is subjective after all. Who knows?

[Mark]

BTW, Rush can be damn funny. I don't care for everything he says but he is often very funny. Maybe humor is subjective after all. Who knows?

It must be...I have never laughed, or even smiled at a single thing the man has said. And it is not because of his politics...I find many of the more conservative comics to be very funny indeed. Rush is just...stupid.

But, as you say, it's all subjective.

[NeilC]

I dunno about the US but re: UK comics - I'd like to know why so many of them wear suede shoes. Go on, check it out for yourself.

[Beerina]

Yes, but he stopped being funny (which I believe is a prerequisite for the "comedian" job title) a long time before he became a born-again conservative.

Actually, he is pretty funny. No need to pretend otherwise just because you disagree with his politics.

I also find the late, great Bill Hicks hillarious, even though he's about as socialist as you get.

Some other conservative comedians include Dennis Leary (possibly, his John F****** Wayne monologue is a riot), and the South Park guys.

[Ladewig]

And while we are on the topic of knee-slapping funny, who can forget when Rush made fun of Chelsey Clinton's looks. He's a real class act, that one.
What does what I think have to do with what is funny or even appropriate?


Being either a polical commentator or a political comedian means focusing one's material on politically-elected officials and their foibles, or the politics of famous or outspoken people. Making fun of a child's looks is well outside the boundries of political humor and is nothing but mean-spirited. If Rush wants to say, hey, I am a broad-based comedian and I can do anything I want, then that is fine, but at that point he can no longer lay claim to the title of being an accurate and insightful political commentator. At that point, he is nothing more than a clown and his opinions should be treated as such.

[Ladewig]

Who said that calling "Bushitler" was hate speech?



I tried Googling "Bushitler" and "Hate speech" and found a lot of right-wing blogs that considered the name to be hate sppech. Of course, at that point, I realized that blogs (of either political stripe) don't really count as evidence. Still, I consider comparing people who aren't murdering Jews or breaking windows in synagogues to Nazis as definitely stupid and possibly hate speech.

So, perhaps I spoke to hastily. What exactly is your definition of hate speech?

[Cleon]

Actually, he is pretty funny. No need to pretend otherwise just because you disagree with his politics.

I really wish you'd read what I wrote before getting on the high horse. I said he stopped being funny a long time before he became a born-again conservative, which means that his politics have nothing to do with my not finding him funny.


Some other conservative comedians include Dennis Leary (possibly, his John F****** Wayne monologue is a riot), and the South Park guys.


The South Park guys are Libertarians, not conservatives. They're kinda hit-or-miss with me; sometimes they're hilarious, sometimes I just get bored.

Denis Leary--I loved No Cure for Cancer, but everything since then has been, well, disappointing.

[RandFan]

Being either a polical commentator or a political comedian means focusing one's material on politically-elected officials and their foibles, or the politics of famous or outspoken people. Making fun of a child's looks is well outside the boundries of political humor and is nothing but mean-spirited. If Rush wants to say, hey, I am a broad-based comedian and I can do anything I want, then that is fine, but at that point he can no longer lay claim to the title of being an accurate and insightful political commentator. At that point, he is nothing more than a clown and his opinions should be treated as such.Who said he was an insightfut and accurate political commentator? Certainly not me. I find the whole "Chelsea" affair rather tired. Yes, out of many thousands of hours of radio this is one moment. Did it cross the line? Depends on your point of view. I think it did but then we come back to the question of why what I think is important? I'm sorry but I just don't buy your line of reasoning. You think the guy is a grade A jerk. Hey, that's fine. He is. You don't think he is funny. Fine. My point is that humor is subjective and just because you don't find Rush funny and can point to all of these things that are insenstive and that you don't find funny doesn't prove anything. Anymore than my pointing out that Howard Stern making fun of real people with speech impediments is not funny (to me) and therefore [insert any conclusion here].

Please, you are entitled to an opinion, and I can respect it but at the end of the day Rush is funny.

[RandFan]

So, perhaps I spoke to hastily. What exactly is your definition of hate speech? To start, I find the term problematic and fraught with the ability to silence speech. I think the term should be used sparingly and only in instances where there is little room for error. Fred Phelps, KKK, Storm Front, these are examples of instances where the speech leaves no room for doubt.

The problem is that when we start to label speech "hate speech" we are attacking the person and poisoning the well. A person's alleged state of mind and emotion becomes the focus and not the arguments. I personally don't find Rush Limbaugh hateful. I find him partisan and at times insensitive. I find that he engages in fallacy and fails to properly vet his sources. The value that I find in Limbaugh is that he offers a perspective that others don't. He provides me with points that others don't. And he is funny and entertaining. When I don't like what he has to offer I put on music or listen to NPR. Which over the years has become more and more I should point out.

I can't defend the guy. He can be world class jerk. But then many of the people I like listening to are including many liberal commentators and pundits.

[Abbyas]

I'm gonna respond here as a pseudo comic.

Pseudo in that I only make about half my living from stand up comedy and writing.

But my point is I see a butt-load of comedy. And most that I see is conservative, conservative, conservative, especially in New York City. Most jokes that you'll see revolve around why men are different than women, and how different races talk funny.

And now you have a whole generation of new comics trying to emulate Jim Norton or Patrice O'Neal or Dave Atell who think that calling a woman a "****" or saying that Arabs are terrorists makes the speaker edgy or anti-politically correct.

Even most of the comics that say, "George Bush is Dumb!", don't go any farther than that. Look at Saturday Night Live or any late night monologue. When was the last time that they said any thing remotely political beyond "George Bush can't ride a bike."

Then there's the uber-conservative Def Comedy Jam circuit. It's still chock full of white people do this and then black people do that. The best is when they say things like if a black/hispanic man/woman were president than, hoo, boy, what craziness would ensue! This implies that there are no intelligent, educated minorities that would be able to function in a political situation.

And as for that Carlos Mencia? Real name: Ned Holness. And the "beaner"? Nicaraguan. And telling it like it is? What, that people are stupid? Never heard that before. Yes, he's on comedy central. Doesn't mean he's a talented comedian. Means that he's a brilliant marketer.

[RandFan]

And as for that Carlos Mencia? Real name: Ned Holness. And the "beaner"? Nicaraguan. And telling it like it is? What, that people are stupid? Never heard that before. Yes, he's on comedy central. Doesn't mean he's a talented comedian. Means that he's a brilliant marketer. Yeah, when people laugh at material we don't like then it can't be because others actually find it funny. There must be another reason.

I find Carlos damn funny and folks I know find him funny. People in his audience find him funny.

But according to you he has his own show because of "marketing"? Wow dude, protect that ego.

Oh, and Ed knows that Nicaraguans would never be considered "beeners" because Americans are so discerning in their racial consciousness. Great point. Shame on Carlos for changing his name and missleading people to think he is a Mexican and not just someone from south of the border.

I'm gonna respond here as a pseudo comic. Comedians are such a great authority as to what is funny. We should really poll comedians before we laugh at anything.

[Abbyas]

I'm not saying that I'm posting because I know what is funny. Just my opinions on what is conservative.

Re: Mencia.

If he's telling it like it is, why is he lying about his heritage?

Also, never said he wasn't funny. He has a talent for whipping up a crowd that I would love to have. What I meant to say with the talented thing is that he is saying nothing that hasn't been said before.

Also, yes, if I had the marketing abilities that man had, I would definitely have my own tv show. Anyone in this forum would. For the jokes, all you would have to do is watch some old comedians and some new ones, take their jokes and put the word 'beaner' in a few times. Mencia is a notorious joke thief.

[Snide]

Oops.

[Snide]

I'm not saying that I'm posting because I know what is funny. Just my opinions on what is conservative.

Re: Mencia.

If he's telling it like it is, why is he lying about his heritage?

Also, never said he wasn't funny. He has a talent for whipping up a crowd that I would love to have. What I meant to say with the talented thing is that he is saying nothing that hasn't been said before.

Also, yes, if I had the marketing abilities that man had, I would definitely have my own tv show. Anyone in this forum would. For the jokes, all you would have to do is watch some old comedians and some new ones, take their jokes and put the word 'beaner' in a few times. Mencia is a notorious joke thief.I'm not sure RandFan will agree, but I think the marketing point you make is so true. Show biz, not unlike any consumer product, is largely about the marketing, and not as much about the product as people may think.

Edited to add...I also didn't find anything from what you said to indicate you need to keep your ego in check. In fact, I'd say the opposite...don't pooh-pooh the fact that only half of your income comes from comedy.

[RandFan]

I'm not sure RandFan will agree, but I think the marketing point you make is so true. Lot's of talented people never get their due. There are many successful people who are far less talented. See many top 10 pop stars like Ashley Simpson.

My only point is that marketing alone won't make an unfunny comedian successful. It seems Abbyas agrees.

[RandFan]

If he's telling it like it is, why is he lying about his heritage? How exactly is he lying about his heritage? Assuming that he claims he is from Mexico when how is not then how is that really so important? Do Americans see Nicaraguans differently than Mexicans? You seem to be making an unimportant distinction that would certainly be lost on the audience and it certainly is not crucial to his point. I really don't get your objection. You are saying that the guy must be 100% technically accurate in order to "tell it like it is"? A comedian can never take artistic license? Nicaraguans suffer the same stereo types as Mexicans and in fact they are called "Mexican". I've never heard anyone differentiate between Mexican, central or south American countries when it comes to racial stereo types of people south of the border.

Your objection is a distinction with little practical difference.

[Abbyas]

I suppose there are a couple of things that rub me the wrong way with this.

1. His name change. The name change was suggested by a club owner to make him appeal to the mexican audience. Makes me think that he doesn't give a hoo-ha about cultural stereotypes. He wants the fame. (Not that I don't. But I'm not gonna implicitly lie about it.)

2. He has a national television show! If he wanted to break down cultural stereotypes, here's the perfect venue. Shout from the rooftops: "Nicaraguans are not Mexicans!" But he won't. Ever. In fact he's been trying to hide the name change thing. Not talk about it.

Maybe I'm biased though. I can't stand joke thieves. Or people that talk about the same things everyone else does, "arabs are the new n-ggers, mexicans don't have jobs, koreans eat dogs." Seems lazy.

[Snide]

Lot's of talented people never get their due. There are many successful people who are far less talented. See many top 10 pop stars like Ashley Simpson.

My only point is that marketing alone won't make an unfunny comedian successful. It seems Abbyas agrees.Good, then that's settled. :)

I'm more curious as to what you think about Abbyas' observation about comedians and their political persuasion, not their level of talent or whether they're dishonest if they use a fake name.

[Ian Osborne]

Lot's of talented people never get their due. There are many successful people who are far less talented. See many top 10 pop stars like Ashley Simpson.

Ashley Simpson isn't talented? What about that Saturday Night Live sketch where she lampooned lip-syncing pop stars by starting up the vocal track to the wrong song, with her microphone nowhere near her mouth? That was a comedy classic...

[RandFan]

1. His name change. The name change was suggested by a club owner to make him appeal to the Mexican audience. Makes me think that he doesn't give a hoo-ha about cultural stereotypes. He wants the fame. (Not that I don't. But I'm not gonna implicitly lie about it.) On the other hand he believes that the name change will facilitate his message. Not everything need be viewed in the worst possible light.

2. He has a national television show! If he wanted to break down cultural stereotypes, here's the perfect venue. Shout from the rooftops: "Nicaraguans are not Mexicans!" But he won't. Ever. In fact he's been trying to hide the name change thing. Not talk about it. This seems silly to me. I can't imagine how this would solve anything. I don't think such a point would resonate with anyone. Who give a $hit would be the likely response.

Maybe I'm biased though. I can't stand joke thieves. Or people that talk about the same things everyone else does, "arabs are the new n-ggers, mexicans don't have jobs, koreans eat dogs." Seems lazy.It's all derivative dude. Some more so than the rest. If we set such standards then we would have to eliminate about 99.99% of the material out there. I'll bet you think your material is completely fresh and authentic. Trust me. It isn't.

I dig Mencia because he does a damn good job of puncturing PC and if anything needs puncturing it is PC, right behind American presidents, pedophile priests and the pope.

[gnome]

I laughed for Mencia, but I do sense he's misrepresenting himself--and IMO, ethnic jokes lose a bit if they're told by someone pretending to be included in the joke, but that really isn't.

[RandFan]

I laughed for Mencia, but I do sense he's misrepresenting himself--and IMO, ethnic jokes lose a bit if they're told by someone pretending to be included in the joke, but that really isn't. I just want to understand. Nicaraguans don't suffer the same stereotypes as Mexicans? I just don't buy that.

[ImaginalDisc]

How exactly is he lying about his heritage? Assuming that he claims he is from Mexico when how is not then how is that really so important? Do Americans see Nicaraguans differently than Mexicans? You seem to be making an unimportant distinction that would certainly be lost on the audience and it certainly is not crucial to his point. I really don't get your objection. You are saying that the guy must be 100% technically accurate in order to "tell it like it is"? A comedian can never take artistic license? Nicaraguans suffer the same stereo types as Mexicans and in fact they are called "Mexican". I've never heard anyone differentiate between Mexican, central or south American countries when it comes to racial stereo types of people south of the border.

Your objection is a distinction with little practical difference.

RandFan, I'm Cuban. Confusing a Cuban with a Mexican is a classically American mistake, and saying that someone pretending to have one hertiage when they have the other is no big deal is...well, I think it's a classic Americanism. It'd be a lot like a Dane claiming he was Swiss. If you don't see anything wrong with that, I have nothing to say.

[Regnad Kcin]

I think I recognize New Ager from another board I participate on from time to time. His posting style and ideology give him away.

Anyway, New Ager is immune to evidence. I provide him evidence regularly and he always dismisses it. Further, he never provides any evidence himself. In the years I have known him, not once has he used a source other than his own words. Never any citations. Not once.

New Ager also is immune to logic and makes the same logic erros despite them being pointed out to him.Truth to power.

[Regnad Kcin]

...If Rush wants to say, hey, I am a broad-based comedian......he'd be refreshingly honest, for a change!

[RandFan]

RandFan, I'm Cuban. Confusing a Cuban with a Mexican is a classically American mistake, and saying that someone pretending to have one hertiage when they have the other is no big deal is...well, I think it's a classic Americanism. It'd be a lot like a Dane claiming he was Swiss. If you don't see anything wrong with that, I have nothing to say. There are a number of issues here that I think need to be addressed.

1.) My point all along has been that Americans confuse Hispanic people. This would include Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Panamanians, etc.

2.) It isn't simply "classically American". The national origins of people from all over the world are often confused by people from all over the world (see Hercules Poirot for an example from literature). It is a common trait of humans not simply Americans. This human trait has been studied and is well understood by cultural anthropologists.

3.) Why should I see something wrong with that? Is culture sacrosanct in your eyes? Is your sense of tribalism so strong that you are offended when people of one national origin pretend to be of another? So what if a Dane claimed to be Swiss?

If Mencia's humor causes us to face the issues of culture and stereo types that divide and helps us to see each other more as humans and less as caricatures then I don't care if he pretends to be Asian. I don't see culture or national origin as sacrosanct.

At the end of the day Carlos is human and THAT fact is the salient point lost on those who look at the trees but somehow just can't see the forest.

If you don't see anything wrong with that, I have nothing to say. Do you really consider this argument? Is this one of those "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" kind of things?

[ImaginalDisc]

There are a number of issues here that I think need to be addressed.

1.) My point all along has been that Americans confuse Hispanic people. This would include Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Panamanians, etc.

2.) It isn't simply "classically American". The national origins of people from all over the world are often confused by people from all over the world (see Hercules Poirot for an example from literature). It is a common trait of humans not simply Americans. This human trait has been studied and is well understood by cultural anthropologists.

3.) Why should I see something wrong with that? Is culture sacrosanct in your eyes? Is your sense of tribalism so strong that you are offended when people of one national origin pretend to be of another? So what if a Dane claimed to be Swiss?

If Mencia's humor causes us to face the issues of culture and stereo types that divide and helps us to see each other more as humans and less as caricatures then I don't care if he pretends to be Asian. I don't see culture or national origin as sacrosanct.

At the end of the day Carlos is human and THAT fact is the salient point lost on those who look at the trees but somehow just can't see the forest.

Do you really consider this argument? Is this one of those "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" kind of things?

If a Dane claimed to Swiss, that would be called a lie. If a Nicuraguan claims to be Mexican, that too is a lie. Tribalism isn't the issue, honesty is.

How would you feel if a Brittish comedian lied about his nationality, and said he was American?

[RandFan]

If a Dane claimed to Swiss, that would be called a lie. If a Nicuraguan claims to be Mexican, that too is a lie. Tribalism isn't the issue, honesty is. Is the world really so black and white for you?

How would you feel if a Brittish comedian lied about his nationality, and said he was American? I would have no problem with it whatsoever. Who gives a s**t? A lie about what? National origin? Who cares? Mark Addy (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004692/) is a British comedian who plays an American on American TV. I only recently found out he is British. Hugh Laurie (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0491402/) is a British actor who plays an American on TV. Both hide their accent while in character. Isn't that deceptive? Carlos is taking artistic licence to make a point.

Now you can argue that Mark and Hugh maintain their characters only for TV while Carlos maintains his all of the time. So what? I don't care if Hugh Laurie suddenly claimed to be American. BFD.

[ImaginalDisc]

Is the world really so black and white for you?

I would have no problem with it whatsoever. Who gives a s**t? A lie about what? National origin? Who cares? Mark Addy (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004692/) is a British comedian who plays an American on American TV. I only recently found out he is British. Hugh Laurie (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0491402/) is a British actor who plays an American on TV. Both hide their accent while in character. Isn't that deceptive? Carlos is taking artistic licence to make a point.

Now you can argue that Mark and Hugh maintain their characters only for TV while Carlos maintains his all of the time. So what? I don't care if Hugh Laurie suddenly claimed to be American. BFD.
'
Firstly, telling a lie about who you are is a problem. It's not a matter of black and white world view. I object to your generalizing my views, especially as we've had debates which involve a great many shades of gray.

Secondly, playing a character is quite a bit different from misrepresenting one's self.

[RandFan]

Firstly, telling a lie about who you are is a problem. It's not a matter of black and white world view. I object to your generalizing my views, especially as we've had debates which involve a great many shades of gray. In this case you are taking a rigid stance on Mencias alleged mendacity. He is passing himself of as the stereo type that Americans see him as. There is arguably an artistic purpose for what he is doing. You refuse to accept that there could be any purpose beyond simply being a liar. That is a clasic black and white world view.

Secondly, playing a character is quite a bit different from misrepresenting one's self. And Carlos isn't playing a charachter? C'mon dude. Get real.

[DavidJames]

I'm politically correct and proud.

Self depreciating humor can be very funny. Making fun of ones own circumstances or ones own cultural, race or ethnicity is a great release and offers many opportunities for laughter. Making fun of a different culture, race or ethnicity can be rude and distasteful. Pretending to be someone your not to provide legitimacy for the humor, I find to be both rude, distasteful and dishonest.

For me, it's like making fun of your family vs. making listening to a stranger making fun of them.

I don't expect everyone to think this way, but it's who I am.

[RandFan]

Pretending to be someone your not to provide legitimacy for the humor, I find to be both rude, distasteful and dishonest. You can certainly find anything you want. Is there any reason why anyone else should view it this way? Carlos IS Hispanic. Those who engage in such stereo types don't make distinctions between Nicaraguans and Mexicans. "Beaners" are beaners regardless of national origin. To assume that he is pretending to be something that he is not for legitimacy is to assume that there is such a distinction. The conclusion that he is trying to provide legitimacy for his humor is a non sequitur. He already has legitimacy by virtue of who he is. Now if he where raised a rich suburbanite pretending to grow up in the barrio then you would have a point. As it is you don't have a point. The difference between a Nicaraguan and a Mexican is simply one of geography. It is a distinction with out any difference.

[RandFan]

I'm politically correct and proud. Not much to be proud about. Political correctness is tyranny. It stifles speech in the hopes of not offending. Screw political correctness. As one who is obese I would hope that I would be treated with dignity. I would not however sacrifice freedom of expression on the alter of political correctness so that I might not have to endure speech that I find offensive. I would rather people have the freedom to express their POV than spare my feelings. Manners and decency are cool. Rigid codes of speech are not.

I'll say it again, screw political correctness.

[Cleon]

Not much to be proud about. Political correctness is tyranny. It stifles speech in the hopes of not offending. Screw political correctness. As one who is obese I would hope that I would be treated with dignity. I would not however sacrifice freedom of expression on the alter of political correctness so that I might not have to endure speech that I find offensive. I would rather people have the freedom to express their POV than spare my feelings. Manners and decency are cool. Rigid codes of speech are not.

I'll say it again, screw political correctness.

Does that include demanding that people say "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays?"

[RandFan]

Does that include demanding that people say "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays?"Absa-damn-lutely!

Let anyone anywhere choose to say what they want. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Merry Solstice. It should be up to the individual or the institution to decide. If an office wants to wish its employees a Merry Christmas then so be it. If Wall Mart want to wish people Happy Holidays then so be it.

It cuts both ways.

ETA: Please see this link (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1342878#post1342878) posted this morning.

In the immortal words of Tiny Tim, "Ed bless us everyone"...or something to that effect.

Merry Holidays and happy Xmas to you all.

[Cleon]

Absa-damn-lutely!

Let anyone anywhere choose to say what they want. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Merry Solstice. It should be up to the individual or the institution to decide. If an office wants to wish its employees a Merry Christmas then so be it. If Wall Mart want to wish people Happy Holidays then so be it.

It cuts both ways.

Well, I'll give you marks on consistency. ;)

The problem I have is at this point whenever someone starts going off about "political correctness," my BS alarm starts ringing. Loudly. My experience has been that much of the time people who yell the loudest about "political correctness" are simply trying to install their own standards of speech.

Case in point--Bill O'Reilly, as part of his "war on Christmas" spiel, claims that "Happy Holidays" is part of a concerted PC effort. Of course, O'Reilly simply wants to force the use of a different phrase.

[RandFan]

Well, I'll give you marks on consistency. ;)

The problem I have is at this point whenever someone starts going off about "political correctness," my BS alarm starts ringing. Loudly. My experience has been that much of the time people who yell the loudest about "political correctness" are simply trying to install their own standards of speech.

Case in point--Bill O'Reilly, as part of his "war on Christmas" spiel, claims that "Happy Holidays" is part of a concerted PC effort. Of course, O'Reilly simply wants to force the use of a different phrase.No argument.

[Year Zero]

Any time someone claims they are "politically incorrect" it usually doesn't take too long to expose their taboos.

[RandFan]

Any time someone claims they are "politically incorrect" it usually doesn't take too long to expose their taboos.? Could you give us an example or clarify your meaning?

[Year Zero]

? Could you give us an example or clarify your meaning?


For example, a "left-wing" politically incorrect individual will make fun of pro-lifers, Christians, etc., but pick one of their taboos like gay rights or race-relations and they'll flip out.

"Right-wing" politically incorrect individuals will make fun of "liberal" practices or feminists but attack their Bible or president and THEY flip out.


I put right and left wing in quotes because most people do not fall neatly into clearly defined catagories and in the case of some people their positions may change when their "team" is in power.

[RandFan]

For example, a "left-wing" politically incorrect individual will make fun of pro-lifers, Christians, etc., but pick one of their taboos like gay rights or race-relations and they'll flip out.

"Right-wing" politically incorrect individuals will make fun of "liberal" practices or feminists but attack their Bible or president and THEY flip out.

I put right and left wing in quotes because most people do not fall neatly into clearly defined catagories and in the case of some people their positions may change when their "team" is in power. Thank you. Yes, I agree. Everyone has their own sacred cows. The same is true with free speech. Many people are happy to endorce free speech when it is their speech or speech they identify with that is being infringed.

[Tmy]

Political correctness is just good manners.

Sort of like NOT belching out loud in a crowded resturant. The idea is to be curtious of others.

[Year Zero]

Thank you. Yes, I agree. Everyone has their own sacred cows. The same is true with free speech. Many people are happy to endorce free speech when it is their speech or speech they identify with that is being infringed on.


Definitely. One thing I am sick of is the EU bitching at Belarus and Russia about "human rights", all the while they are locking up people for "denying the Holocaust". You can run a brothel full of imported sex slaves in Germany with little problems(particularly with a license), but Germar Rudolf is facing at least ten years for questioning a historical event. He obviously picked the wrong event, because you can question the Ukrainian famine without reprisal all you want even though that debate was conclusively ended back in the 30's. To this day there are still Marxist groups that deny Stalinist genocide based almost soley on one poorly-researched article written about twenty years ago by Jeff Copland.

I don't care what anyone believes about the Holocaust or the Ukrainian famine- but I damn sure don't believe that governments should lock up their own people(and other countries' people) because they say something that offends some minority group.

[Tmy]

Thank you. Yes, I agree. Everyone has their own sacred cows. The same is true with free speech. Many people are happy to endorce free speech when it is their speech or speech they identify with that is being infringed.

Freedom is a buffet. But everyone wants it to be al-a-carte. "Ill take that freedom, and that freedom. I dont like that freedom, LETS GET RID OF IT!"

[thaiboxerken]

Any time someone claims they are "politically incorrect" it usually doesn't take too long to expose their taboos.

So what? I can make fun of racists and still not be hypocritical when they make fun of certain races.

[Snide]

Not much to be proud about. Political correctness is tyranny. It stifles speech in the hopes of not offending.I think you're confusing the kind of political correctness where people demand others to say things a certain way and the type of PC where you try to be courteous and thoughtful and wish others would too (like DJ).

Reminds me of when Ed criticized me for being the "epitome" (or something like that) of PC when I posted how I choose not to use the term "cotton-pickin'" because I did not know the origin of it and I was concerned it might have something to do with times of slavery. It was a choice to err on the side of courtesy, and yet I was somehow the bad guy. Sorry, but I too am proud to be that way.

[RandFan]

I think you're confusing the kind of political correctness where people demand others to say things a certain way and the type of PC where you try to be courteous and thoughtful and wish others would too (like DJ). I would say that the former is PC and the latter is decency and manners.

[aerosolben]

I would say that the former is PC and the latter is decency and manners.
There's a gray area between demanding and wishing, and it causes a lot of tension. You end up with one side saying "How dare you demand I use that term?" and the other saying "How can you be so inconsiderate as to refuse to use that term?", and neither is strictly right or wrong.

As an example, the term 'midget' is considered offensive because it was originally applied to those who were more 'normal' looking and could be somewhat accepted in human society, while the rest of the dwarves were relegated to freakshows and whatnought.

I could easily see a situation where a little person would react thinking 'Why is that jerk using a derogatory term?" and the other guy thinking "I've been saying midget all my life! This is PC crap!". Frankly, I think a little assumption of ignorance on one side, and a willingness to correct ignorance on the other would go a long way.

Oh, and I just think Mencia's kind of hack, and saw a good opportunity to make a joke.