Swinging OK says Canada Supreme Court

[TriangleMan]

Today the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that swingers clubs do not pose a threat to Canadian Society. Link (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/12/21/SCOC-swingers-051221.html)

[ImaginalDisc]

Great. Now, to borrow a line from John Stweart, we're less progressive than South Africa and Canada. The lands of Apartheid and Taxation-Without-Representation.

[Jas]

Swinging was illegal? Why would it be? I don't understand.

[Segnosaur]

Swinging was illegal? Why would it be? I don't understand.

I don't know if its the swinging itself, but if you read the article it shows that at least one person was charged with "keeping a bawdy house" (i.e. a brotel).

Ironically, these cases happened in Quebec, which is the province that's considered the most 'socialist'. I thought it was supposed to be those evil conservatives who were trying to regulate morality.

[Jas]

But owning a brothel is totally different than swinging.

So I don't see how the two got confused.

[Terry]

such laws are often drafted so that the police don't have to show that money changed hands.

[Jas]

True.

But in Canada, the law is drafted as such (iirc), that prostitution itself isn't illegal, it's soliciting. So I'm still surprised that they would be charged.

But, cops are dickheads.

[Charlie Monoxide]

Great. Now, to borrow a line from John Stweart, we're less progressive than South Africa and Canada. The lands of Apartheid and Taxation-Without-Representation.Don't sell the US too short quite yet. I use to live in San Francisco. Although I've never been, there are a few "swinging clubs" that are heavily advertised in alternative weeklies. The big one IIRC is called THe Power Station. It's actually 2, one for the straights and another for gay males.

I don't think they were ever busted, at least I never read anything about them while I lived there (1998-2001).

The thing I admire about Canada is that it's a federal ruling. That means Chez Newfie Swinging Club out east and West Coast Wife Swap in BC are okay in the eyes of the Canadian Supreme Court.

Charlie (hurry up with the pot issue Canada, I'll come back) Monoxide

[Segnosaur]

But in Canada, the law is drafted as such (iirc), that prostitution itself isn't illegal, it's soliciting. So I'm still surprised that they would be charged.


While it is true that prostitution isn't illegal and soliciting is, I think a few other "activities" are also illegal, including "living off the avails of prostitution" (i.e. pimping) and running a brothel.

But, cops are dickheads.

The cops may have been dickheads, but remember, they wouldn't have been the ones who prosecuted the case, handled the appeals, etc. I rather suspect that at any time, it could have been killed by the government.

Here's what I find ironic... these cases happened in Quebec, yet Quebec is supposedly the left-wing "socialist" utopia in Canada that protects people's freedoms. So much for the idea that its always the conservatives who want to oppress people.

[TriangleMan]

Here's what I find ironic... these cases happened in Quebec, yet Quebec is supposedly the left-wing "socialist" utopia in Canada that protects people's freedoms. So much for the idea that its always the conservatives who want to oppress people.
Quebec is also the home of the "language police", and lets not forget the Sûreté du Québec involvement in the Oka Crisis. A left-wing society does not necessarily mean "soft" police enforcement.

As for the Supreme Court ruling I haven't read the full case history but I saw it on CBC news the other night (Yes, we get CBC in Bermuda) and they interviewed a lady from some "protect the family" organization and it appeared that there were some groups who thought swing clubs were a threat to society or something.

[ImaginalDisc]

Don't sell the US too short quite yet. I use to live in San Francisco. Although I've never been, there are a few "swinging clubs" that are heavily advertised in alternative weeklies. The big one IIRC is called THe Power Station. It's actually 2, one for the straights and another for gay males.

I don't think they were ever busted, at least I never read anything about them while I lived there (1998-2001)...


...Charlie (hurry up with the pot issue Canada, I'll come back) Monoxide

Yeah, there's one I know of up in Ft. Lauderdale. A while back the cops actually raided the place and happened to find of their fellow police offices having sex with his wife.

A few years earlier, in the Fort Lauderdale swinger club arrests of '99, officers invaded the private back rooms. Oddly enough, when the Broward police raided the Trapeze II, they felt it necessary to explore the private back rooms where they found, lo and behold, a fellow member of Fort Lauderdale's finest in the buff with his wife, going at it. This officer caught with his pants down eventually filed a law suit against the city. The case had ended up on national TV and turned some lives of the Trapeze patrons upside down. Needless to say, it made excellent talk show fodder.

Can you say law suit?
There in Broward county, the crime was not about running a sex-oriented business, but about "intent to offend" (which puts the behavior at the clubs under the definition of lewdness). So, first someone has to be offended; then prosecutors have to prove that the whole reason these happy sex partners were getting down was so they could offend some onlookers. "Gee, Mabel, sex just isn't the same when you can't make someone gasp in horror -- let's head on down to the Trapeze and see who we can offend." Of all the people at the club that evening, including police, only one male officer could say he was "offended" by what went on at the club. The next closest complaint prosecutors could come up with was a female officer who used the word "embarrassed," rather than "offended." Apparently that wasn't enough, and the case was dropped. It's just possible the city considers the hundreds of thousands of dollars in law suits fair compensation for the officers' thrilling evening. And can you blame officers for wanting a break?

http://alt.com/intgroups/aa48/tyadmin/acprint_admin_article.html

The "Intent to offend" thing didn't hold up in court.

He asked the court to instruct the jury ``That if you find that the only person or persons to be offended were law enforcement personnel acting in their official capacity, you must find the defendant not guilty.''

Aaronson also asked the court to instruct the jury that if it finds undercover police who infiltrated the club were the only persons offended -- and if the police were told by the club what to expect in terms of sex occurring there -- then law enforcement, in effect, consented to viewing the behavior.

``One cannot be legally offended by another's behavior and conduct, if one consents to viewing it or being present,'' the motion said.

http://www.trapezeclub.com/trapnew/atlanta/News/news4.htm

[Almo]

I was very glad to read this today. It's just not something that's worth making illegal. The ruling went along the lines of "Adults can do what they want behind closed doors, as long as it's consentual and noone gets hurt."

Edit:
I'm much more concerned about all the bogus companies taking investor's money.