JK builds a computer!

[Checkmite]

OK, it's time for the auto mechanic to try his hand at rebuilding a computer.

Problem: my cheap-o eMachine 733i's motherboard tanked. It was a Pentium Celeron, 733Mhz, with a 20GB hard drive. It did what I needed it to do, never had a problem - except having to reformat the disk on two occasions, because of booting problems that I couldn't resolve following the removal of certain species of spyware. Oh, well.

The computer I'm using now is much older and slower, and I can't use most of my peripherals, and half my software. I took the hard drive out of the eMachine and put it in this machine, so I still have all my stuff. But it's way too slow. So, I've decided to buy a new motherboard, and build a new computer on it out of parts and things I have on-hand.

Here's where my system currently stands:

Unknown motherboard, AMD K6(3D) processor w/MMX
512MB RAM, PCC 133
20MB fixed hard drive, unknown manufacturer
Generic NEC floppy disk drive
Creative CD/R/RW RW8435E
Lite-On DVD-ROM SOHD-16P9S
ALS4000 PCI sound card (treble head tells me he found a DOS driver for this card!)
ATI Rage II+ PCI video card
D-Link DFE-530TX+ PCI ethernet adapter

I didn't include exterior peripherals like the printer, scanner, cam, joystick etc.

So, I went on Paltalk and explained my situation to some of my friends, who helped tremendously in the search for new stuff, and in some cases have donated things which to them would be no longer useful, but would certainly be more than helpful for building my new computer, considering the rather muted ambitions I have for my system (i.e., nothing spectacular, I'm not a real big gamer or latest&greatest fan). So, here's the stuff I will be getting.

MSI KM4M-V Via Socket A ATX Motherboard
AMD Sempron 2500+ 1.75GHz Processor (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1648262&CatId=188) (these two items have been purchased and are on their way)
512MB DDR DIMM RAM
A GeForce video card (exact type I don't remember; I'm buying it from treble head).
A more up-to-date power pack (in case my old one is insufficient)
SGE ST3160023A-RK 160GB hard drive (still considering this one)

I will use my current CD drives, as they should work just fine. I will also use my current hard drive until I buy a new one. But the new motherboard has onboard sound and a LAN port, so I will not need to use my ethernet adapter or that ancient ALS4000 sound card. I will likely use the GeForce video card rather than the Rage II I have now. When I eventually buy the new hard drive, I will probably install Windows XP (so I have to find an OEM somewheres). My current hard drive is IDE, and the new hard drive is going to be ATA - but the motherboard comes with both, and cables for both. All of this is, of course, going in the old huge blocky dinosaur tower, which has an "Adamant Computers" label on it. I don't know why, but the thought of such a (relatively) fast and updated system sitting in a 10-year-old tower just seems cool to me.

So, tell me what you guys think. Yes, I know I'm not getting the absolute best I can get, but I think I'm getting great value for the money I'm able to spend. It should be fun - I've never installed a processor before. For that matter, I've never installed a motherboard before. But I'm resolved now, so it WILL get done.

[PixyMisa]

The Sempron is a good chip. It will crush the old Celeron like a crushy thing. And any GeForce other than the original and the cut-down versions of the GeForce 2 is a good card.

(I'm assuming you don't want to play Quake IV at 1600x1200. It will be fine for most other stuff.)

[thrombus29]

When I saw JK in the title I thought Jedi Knight was back.

[Checkmite]

Aha! First problem identified. The motherboard CPU bundle that's been ordered (which hasn't gotten here yet) does not come with a heat sink and fan. I do not know whether it is safe to operate the computer without a CPU fan and heat sink, so even after the stuff arrives I may not be able to use it right away until I manage to find a fan somewhere. I do not know if the CPU fan from my eMachine, or the one for this machine, is compatible with the new CPU.

Also, it may be longer than previously anticipated before I get a new hard drive. Hard drives are cheap now, but all the cool rebates and things which make them cheap end Saturday, and I won't be able to buy one before then. But that's OK, as the hard drive I have now works just fine. Think happy thoughts!

[Zep]

I do not know whether it is safe to operate the computer without a CPU fan and heat sink...Oh it's perfectly safe!





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Until about now...

[Vitnir]

Even though the old heatsink might fit in the new socket it you cant be sure it can handle the heat as each generation of CPUs tend to generate more heat than the previous. As your going to buy a separate fan/heatsink I'd get one with a speed controller, reducing the rpms will net a quieter computer.
If your not using games I'm not sure you would benefit from a new videocard as 2D-performance leveled out years back and all cards are as fast as the next one.

[PixyMisa]

Aha! First problem identified. The motherboard CPU bundle that's been ordered (which hasn't gotten here yet) does not come with a heat sink and fan. I do not know whether it is safe to operate the computer without a CPU fan and heat sink

What Zep said.

I do not know if the CPU fan from my eMachine, or the one for this machine, is compatible with the new CPU.

Actually, the eMachine fan might work, but I wouldn't recommend it.

[Zep]

If you are SERIOUS about pepping this bad boy up, JK, consider peltier cells applied directly, and overclocking. Or at least chilled-water-cooling the bastard.

[Checkmite]

Well, the local computer shop has told me to bring the motherboard and CPU in when it arrives, and they will give me a compatible used sink/fan for free. Apparently they've got a whole bunch of fans they can't get rid of.

No overclocking! I wouldn't need to overclock even if I were somehow able to get every single piece of software I own running simultaneously. Besides, the company had a nice disclaimer which said (paraphrased) "If the chip acts up or goes bad, don't bother sending it back if you've been overclocking because your warranty goes bye-bye - and trust us, we will find out." And I don't want to put my computer in a refrigerator - it looks fine on my desk and there's not much room in the refrigerator anyway.

[Zep]

Aaawwww! Spoilsport!

http://images.tomshardware.com/2003/12/30/5_ghz_project/aufmacher_en.jpg

[Checkmite]

OK, the video card I'm buying from treble is a GeForce FX 5200, 128MB.

The board and CPU will arrive either tomorrow or Monday. Treble's card arrives shortly thereafter. So by the end of next week, I estimate, I should have the new box up and running. I'm all tingly with anticipation-like stuff. As long as the board comes with a decent set of instructions, I should be fine.

[Checkmite]

I've changed my mind about when the motherboard and CPU will get here. I've decided it will actually have gotten here earlier today while I was at work. Go figure.

So, now I just have to wait for the rest of the goodies from my ubiquitous benefactors.

[T'ai Chi]

(I'm assuming you don't want to play Quake IV at 1600x1200. It will be fine for most other stuff.)

Unrealistic.

;-)

[xenxabar]

I will probably install Windows XP (so I have to find an OEM somewheres).

If you're still looking for an OEM of XP, Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16837102059) always has a good price on OEM copies of XP (not to mention thousands of other computer parts), and right now Softwareoutlet.com (http://www.softwareoutlet.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=0464) has XP Pro for $99.

[Checkmite]

If you're still looking for an OEM of XP, Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16837102059) always has a good price on OEM copies of XP (not to mention thousands of other computer parts), and right now Softwareoutlet.com (http://www.softwareoutlet.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=0464) has XP Pro for $99.

Cool and stuff, and thanks - but...

I will have to buy a new hard drive first, which will apparently cost about the same as the OEM, and I cannot afford to spend $200 at once. And I cannot order with a credit card, because I don't have one, so I may end up just having to get it locally.

[Mercutio]

That's not buildin' a computah.

http://www.cob.sfasu.edu/sbradley/tinkertoycpu.jpg
That's buildin' a computah.

[xenxabar]

And I cannot order with a credit card, because I don't have one, so I may end up just having to get it locally.

Have you looked into Visa gift cards (http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/prepaid/gift_card_faq.html?it=l2%7C/personal/cards/prepaid/gift_card_how%2Ehtml%7CFAQ#anchor_23)? If you live in the US, they may be a good option for you as they are accepted the same as Visa credit cards. Many banks carry them such as U.S. Bank, TCF Bank, Wells Fargo and PNC Bank. However, if you can get everything locally for comparable prices, then if may not be worthwhile to you.

[Diamond]

Could I recommend more memory? You've got a fast chip and lots of storage space by 512MB is consumed hungrily by just about everything.

IGB of RAM and it'll fly.

Also, don't use all the disk space for Windows XP. Save some for a Linux distro.

[Checkmite]

I dislike Linux. Not for any technical reasons, of course - but the look and feel of the OS is simply too alien and uncomfortable for me.

[Vitnir]

I dislike Linux. Not for any technical reasons, of course - but the look and feel of the OS is simply too alien and uncomfortable for me.
That's the beauty of Linux, it works with a number of different shells. If I didnt play computer games I would run Linux only instead of on a ramble of left over parts.

[homer]

The guy that invented the computer came from my part of the world . He never actually completed it, back in Victorian Britain , because he couldn't get the parts !
He stopped part way though making his difference engine to design a mechanical computer with a mill(CPU) and a memory for general use . This was never built .
The Science Museum in London did finish a replicaof the difference engine a few years ago and it is a very impressive piece of Mechanical Engineering . And it works , unlike some modern operating systems ..

[kevin]

don't run a computer without a cpu fan designed for your specific cpu (and cpu speed!). Number 2 problem I've had with my home built computers was cpu fan failure. I finally dropped the bucks on a good steel ball-bering fan and have been good to go for years now (and these computers are servers that are on 24/7, not heavily loaded but always on).

Number 1 problem I've had is hard drive failure. Currently I buy new Seagate drives because they have a 5 year warranty. I'd go with the 160 or larger drive. You'll aways fill the space up....

512MB memory is probably sufficient for what you're doing, but I always recommend at least 1GB of memory. Even my old (now defunct) powerbook had a gigabyte of memory in it. A giga will probably be necessary if you consider upgrading to Windows Vista in a couple of years.

[Checkmite]

All right guys...

Motherboard - check!

Processor - check!

Heat sink w/fan - check!

Silver-based thermal paste - check!

Memory - check!

Temporary video card - check!

This is it. It is time. Next time I post, hopefully it will be using my new upgraded computer system. Wish me luck!

P.S. - ever notice how many wires there are inside a computer? Wow, it's like a rainbow in there!

[kevin]

P.S. - ever notice how many wires there are inside a computer? Wow, it's like a rainbow in there!

That's why I like SATA. The cables are much smaller. rounded IDE are ok, but SATA is nicer. Now if they could just come up with a standard power distribution back-plane so we didn't have all those freaking power cables in there.

[Checkmite]

Didn't work. :(

I mean, it started to work. It made all the appropriate start-up noises and everything, and the fan was running - but alas. The screen remained dark.

MSI's tech support is closed, so I shall have to try again tomorrow, with their guidance.

[Vitnir]

If any of the IDE or floppy cables are turned upside down the computer will not boot into BIOS even. It's been awhile since I did that but that's what happens I think.

[Wudang]

Check the video card is seated properly. The first thing you should see on the monitor is the card booting. I have cheap geforce FX cards in 2 of my PCs and neither goes in its slot with a nice crisp feel if you know what I mean. Should be something like "Geforce FX BIOS ....."

[Checkmite]

Neither of the video cards I tried worked. I even tried to run the computer with no IDEs or drives or anything like that attached, per MSI's suggestion. Again, power - but no video.

The screen does not twitch, darken, lighten, or do absolutely anything when the motherboard is turned on.

Couldn't get through to MSI's phone tech support, so I sent an online request.

[Vitnir]

The old Duron and Athlon XP CPUs had the disadvantage of being vulnerable to physical force, if the heatsink was assembled a bit wrong it's supposed to be able to crack it. Therefore its essential that all force is applied straight down and to make sure its in the correct position before you start. It's also possible to install the memory chip wrong if you apply enough force. All this should be covered in the motherboard manual though.

[Mongrel]

Josh - Have you checked the position of the JBAT1 jumper? IIRC MSI are one of the annoying companies who ship the Mobo with it in the "Clear Data" position.

I downloaded the manual from here (http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/download/dld/spt_dld_detail.php?UID=610&kind=1)and it's on page 10/11 :)

[Checkmite]

All jumpers are set correctly; I believe the chip is fine. I didn't have to use any force to insert it.

The problem, most likely, is that this motherboard evidently requires TWO connections from the power supply - the normal 16-pin one, and a second, tiny 4-pin clip. My old power supply doesn't have the 4-pin clip, and the port is in such a location that I didn't even notice it, so I didn't think about it.

A new power supply will be here in the next day or so.

[Checkmite]

Update:



IT'S ALIVE! ALIIIIIIIIIIVE!!!!!

Details to come later tonight. :)

[PixyMisa]

Yaaaaay!

[Checkmite]

OK, so, the new power supply that treble_head sent me ended up working. That's really all there is to it...

The motherboard came with a CD which could auto-install all the drivers and stuff like that; however, the autoinstall only works for Windows 98SE and higher, and I'm plain old 98. So, I had to sort through the CD and find all the (still compatible) drivers, and install them myself one-by-one. Works, though, no problems.