Help finding source (and possible exact saying?) of quote

[Kiless]

It goes something like this....

'If your pet theory contravenes Einstein's Theory of Relativity...
So much the worse for Einstein's theory.
If your pet theory contravenes observed evidence....
Well, experimenters make mistakes.
But if your theory contravenes the laws of thermodynamics...
I can offer you no hope at all.'

Any hope.... in terms of knowing who and what was really said? :)

[Hawk one]

Well, here's the exact quote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotes_&_humor_(thermodynamics)), which reveals the originator to be Sir Arthur Eddington.

Since I'm too lazy doing more than one 5-second Google, I'll let you work it out (in terms of finding the possible context) from here. ;)

[jeffq]

According to the 1999 edition of The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations, it's from famed British astrophysicist Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington, and is cited as:

If someone points out to you that your pet theory of the universe is in disagreement with Maxwell's equations — then so much the worse for Maxwell's equations. If it is found to be contradicted by observation — well, these experimentalists do bungle things sometimes. But if your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics I can give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation. [The Nature of the Physical World (1915); chapter 15]

[Kiless]

Rockin'. :g1: Thanks guys.

[jeffq]

Ah, I see Hawk one somehow got his reply in before mine, even though I'm sure I didn't spend 30 minutes fact-checking and wiki editing. Incidentally, I also first found it on Wikipedia, but in the article on "Second law of thermodynamics", not Hawk's citation of "Quotes & humor (thermodynamics)" (which shouldn't be there long, because its contents belong in Wikiquote). (Sorry I can't provide links; I'm still New Blood as of this posting.) Fortunately, it was also available in my library copy of Oxford, so I was able to correct the wiki citations in near-realtime. (I just love Wikipedia and Wikiquote!)

[Kiless]

Ah, I see Hawk one somehow got his reply in before mine, even though I'm sure I didn't spend 30 minutes fact-checking and wiki editing. Incidentally, I also first found it on Wikipedia, but in the article on "Second law of thermodynamics", not Hawk's citation of "Quotes & humor (thermodynamics)" (which shouldn't be there long, because its contents belong in Wikiquote). (Sorry I can't provide links; I'm still New Blood as of this posting.) Fortunately, it was also available in my library copy of Oxford, so I was able to correct the wiki citations in near-realtime. (I just love Wikipedia and Wikiquote!)

Gotta love a man who knows the vaguries of the internet.... http://img39.exs.cx/img39/796/static8.gif

[CFLarsen]

Isn't this a nice forum? :)

[Hawk one]

Ah, I see Hawk one somehow got his reply in before mine, even though I'm sure I didn't spend 30 minutes fact-checking and wiki editing. Incidentally, I also first found it on Wikipedia, but in the article on "Second law of thermodynamics", not Hawk's citation of "Quotes & humor (thermodynamics)" (which shouldn't be there long, because its contents belong in Wikiquote). (Sorry I can't provide links; I'm still New Blood as of this posting.) Fortunately, it was also available in my library copy of Oxford, so I was able to correct the wiki citations in near-realtime. (I just love Wikipedia and Wikiquote!)

Well, as someone who doesn't really care about Wiki, I just put up the link here right away, and thought no more about where it should belong.

Which brings me to my point: Even though your title is New Blood, you can put up links after 15 posts (so sayeth the law). So if the quote is moved, you are free to show us exactly where, so that my possibly soon outdated link won't be the only only one up in this thread. ;)

[Soapy Sam]

Since you're on a roll.
Someone once said in a speech about physics (presumably in Germany)-
" Wir konnen wissen. Wir mussen wissen."

(We can understand. We must understand).

Does anyone know who , where or when?
(I'm guessing Max Born, but it is just a guess).

[Ririon]

Google-fest?

"Wir mussen wissen, wir werden wissen" -- David Hilbert

(We must know, we will know)

Close enough? What do I win? ;)

[jeffq]

Yay! I'm 16 (posts) now. I can link. Therefore...

The contradicting-the-2nd-law quote can be found in Wikipedia's "Second law of thermodynamics" article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics#Quotes_including_the_ second_law), as well as the soon-to-be-moved "Quotes & humor (thermodynamics)" article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotes_%26_humor_%28thermodynamics%29#Quotes) and Wikiquote's "Arthur Stanley Eddington" article (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Arthur_Stanley_Eddington).

Wikiquote's "David Hilbert" article (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/David_Hilbert) confirms Ririon's discovery (with a bit of umlauting):

"Wir müssen wissen. Wir werden wissen." ("We must know. We will know.")

and also mentions that it comes from a speech in Königsberg in 1930 and is now on his tomb in Göttingen.

One of the things that attracted me to Wikiquote in the first place, and is my regular crusade as an editor there, is that it's the only general quotes website that makes a concerted effort to source and verify quotes. It's absolutely maddening to Google a quote and find hundreds of citations that not only can't agree on the exact quote, but utterly fail to point you to where you can check it for yourself.

WARNING: incoming gratuitous but useful site plug :)

By the way, if you're looking for any quotes and/or their sources, and can't find them anywhere (even in Wikiquote), you can post your request at Wikiquote's reference desk (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wikiquote:Reference_desk), and various editors will take a shot at researching them as time and interest allows. (I can assure you that science and skepticism quotes are of high interest there, by more than just this JREF fan and WQ editor.)

[Dr Adequate]

Google-fest?

"Wir mussen wissen, wir werden wissen" -- David Hilbert IIRC, it's also inscribed on his tombstone.

ETA: oops, jeffq's already told you that.

[Soapy Sam]

Danke sehr.
I tried Googling this months ago and got nothing. I just looked again and there are several links, though they do indeed use the slightly different " wir werden wissen.", which I would translate as "we will know".

Or to put it another way- I had it wrong in the first place.

[geni]

as the soon-to-be-moved "Quotes & humor (thermodynamics)" article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotes_%26_humor_%28thermodynamics%29#Quotes)

Don't be to sure. The interwikiprocess isn't the fastest around.