Using magnetic field to jump to another dimension.

[TobiasTheViking]

AN EXTRAORDINARY "hyperspace" engine that could make interstellar space travel a reality by flying into other dimensions is being investigated by the United States government.


Also, if a large enough magnetic field was created, the craft would slip into a different dimension, where the speed of light is faster, allowing incredible speeds to be reached. Switching off the magnetic field would result in the engine reappearing in our current dimension.

http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=16902006

You've got to be s*****g me.-...

[Bone_Vulture]

I'll believe it when I see it.

By the way, what is the Scotsman's current status as a reliable news source?

[clarsct]

May I remind you that the US Government also researched remote viewing, ESP, UFOs, and mind control?

Just because the Government is researching it, doesn't lend it any credibility.

But it would be cool, if actually built.

[Earthborn]

Apperently based on Heim theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heim_theory). My untrained eye tells me that it is a theory that is not unworthy of a few thousand bucks of research money. But calling a device to test it a 'hyperspace engine' seems more than a little premature... Opening up another dimension that allows faster than light travel is not quite the same thing as travelling faster than light, just as opening an old dirt road for vehicles that can reach Mach 3 is not quite the same thing as being able to drive at Mach 3.

I guess that's what you get with those physisist people. There is no way they can explain in simple terms what they are doing and what it will be good for, so the only way they can rationalise their research spending to laymen is coming up with outrageous claims.

My humble calculations tell me that a three hour trip to Mars is not faster than light, though...

[TobiasTheViking]

Apperently based on Heim theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heim_theory). My untrained eye tells me that it is a theory that is not unworthy of a few thousand bucks of research money. But calling a device to test it a 'hyperspace engine' seems more than a little premature... Opening up another dimension that allows faster than light travel is not quite the same thing as travelling faster than light, just as opening an old dirt road for vehicles that can reach Mach 3 is not quite the same thing as being able to drive at Mach 3.

I guess that's what you get with those physisist people. There is no way they can explain in simple terms what they are doing and what it will be good for, so the only way they can rationalise their research spending to laymen is coming up with outrageous claims.

My humble calculations tell me that a three hour trip to Mars is not faster than light, though...
It is fine to test the Heim Theory, but the article makes it sound like the Heim Theory have been tested, and is on par with GR and QF, which, i believe, it isn't even close to yet.

[Dragon]

Ah, but what would you give to be the first person to say, "Engage!" ?

[Loon]

"Chewie, take us to hyperspace!"

[TobiasTheViking]

Ah, but what would you give to be the first person to say, "Engage!" ?
My first born.

[cyborg]

Am I the only one here thinking Babylon 5's jump-points?

[Belz...]

Am I the only one here thinking Babylon 5's jump-points?

Pfft... stupid gate-dependent drive.

[SpaceFluffer]

I guess that's what you get with those physisist people. There is no way they can explain in simple terms what they are doing and what it will be good for, so the only way they can rationalise their research spending to laymen is coming up with outrageous claims.Whereas those people who can't even spell 'physicist', apparently have no idea what they're talking about.

Edited: It occurred to me that you may have said this ironically. I apologize if this is the case.

[Xeriar]

It is fine to test the Heim Theory, but the article makes it sound like the Heim Theory have been tested, and is on par with GR and QF, which, i believe, it isn't even close to yet.

I personally think the Higgs field is bollocks and thus go for Heim theory, myself. It does have some things going for it.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

Still, saying the article is a bit sensationalist is like calling the ocean wet. Most models for FTL travel require the mass-energy conversion of a small star, up to values in excess of the observed Universe.

[cyborg]

Pfft... stupid gate-dependent drive.

Wrong. The gates were only necessary as waypoints to enable navigation through hyperspace (as in 'don't stray too far off the beacon') and for smaller ships that didn't have their own jump engines. The smallest ships to have jump-capability being the White Star class ships made from a combination of Mimbari and Vorlon technology.

And that's not even meantioning the 'third-space' that was part of a spin-off movie, which revolved around some ancient Vorlon technology letting through some bad-ass ships through.

</geek>

[jjramsey]

It is fine to test the Heim Theory, but the article makes it sound like the Heim Theory have been tested, and is on par with GR and QF, which, i believe, it isn't even close to yet.

I don't think the article implies that at all. From the article:

"But this thing is not around the corner; we first have to prove the basic science is correct and there are quite a few physicists who have a different opinion.

[Ziggurat]

Nature produces larger magnetic fields than we can hope to ever create. If large magnetic fields can create effects that contradict most physical theories, then there should be signs of such effects out there in the universe already. That seems like a rather more natural place to start.

Pulsars (spinning neutron stars with magnetic fields) have been observed with fields in the range of 10^14 gauss and higher. I think Z-pinch machines can achieve something on the order of 10^8 gauss, which isn't anywhere close to as large. So if we can create new effects in the lab, they should be happening out there in the universe already.

[LTC8K6]

This is sort of like buying a lotto ticket.

You don't know if these way out ideas will end up as anything useful, but you still give them a try on the off chance that they will work, or they will lead to something new.

[Melendwyr]

This is sort of like buying a lotto ticket. Statistically, a net loss of resources? Probably.

[Soapy Sam]

Still- somebody wins. In this case, would we care who?

[Melendwyr]

If it's entropy, yes. Or hideous alien entities who hate all other life and who can only access our dimension if we help establish a link - them too.

[Ziggurat]

If it's entropy, yes. Or hideous alien entities who hate all other life and who can only access our dimension if we help establish a link - them too.

DOOM!

We're in for zombie soldiers, flying skulls, and RPG-launching minotaurs for sure now.

[Beausoleil]

Reminds me of an science fiction story I read years ago, where they made a gate only to discover that the speed of light in hyperspace was slower.

[Greyman]

Reminds me of an science fiction story I read years ago, where they made a gate only to discover that the speed of light in hyperspace was slower.

Wouldn't that have made it Hypospace?

[Ziggurat]

Reminds me of an science fiction story I read years ago, where they made a gate only to discover that the speed of light in hyperspace was slower.

Actually, there's a problem inherent in this. It's not possible to do a one-to-one mapping of two Minkowski spaces with different c's onto each other unless you adopt a preferred reference frame. So any effect that transfers you from one to another can basically act as a way to determine what that preferred reference frame is. Seeing as how relativity (that is, the ABSENCE of any prefered frame) came out of electrodynamics, it would be quite remarkable if the violation of that relativity came from something like a large magnetic field. The only other alternative to a prefered frame would be an infinite variety of "hyperspaces", one for each possible starting reference frame you're in.

[toddjh]

Reminds me of an science fiction story I read years ago, where they made a gate only to discover that the speed of light in hyperspace was slower.

There's a novel with a truly awful story but a similar premise called Redshift Rendezvous by John E. Stith. In the book, it turns out that the speed of light in hyperspace is only ten meters per second, but the way hyperspace maps onto normal space means you only have to move a matter of miles to cross interstellar distances, so it's still an effective means of travel.

Jeremy

[Soapy Sam]

I'm curious about braking...would such a ship re-enter realspace at near-c?
If so, how would it slow down fast enough to get anywhere? And A rather effective planet buster if aimed right.

[Melendwyr]

DOOM!

We're in for zombie soldiers, flying skulls, and RPG-launching minotaurs for sure now. I take it you've never actually seen Thirdspace.

[Beerina]

I'm curious about braking...would such a ship re-enter realspace at near-c?
If so, how would it slow down fast enough to get anywhere? And A rather effective planet buster if aimed right.

Heck, go a little faster, and you'll destroy a star. You won't come out of it looking too good, either, but it can be done.

[kuroyume0161]

Nature produces larger magnetic fields than we can hope to ever create. If large magnetic fields can create effects that contradict most physical theories, then there should be signs of such effects out there in the universe already. That seems like a rather more natural place to start.

Pulsars (spinning neutron stars with magnetic fields) have been observed with fields in the range of 10^14 gauss and higher. I think Z-pinch machines can achieve something on the order of 10^8 gauss, which isn't anywhere close to as large. So if we can create new effects in the lab, they should be happening out there in the universe already.
I hate to quote an entire post and then say little, but you make a point that seems to be overlooked often. Very well said!

We keep looking at certain facets of the universe that can be exploited in ways that seem improbable and we don't see such improbabilities naturally occurring (not that they don't exist, mind you). Does anyone here believe (note - not 'think') that infinitesimal humans are capable of creating a Quasar (supposedly the most massive and energetic thing in the entire universe)? That would be maniacally insane.

Our best bet is black holes for extra-universal travel, but in the process they are, by definition, destructive. A black hole punches a hole in space-time, what does one think it does to matter-energy in the process? We already know - it obliterates it! And there is no experiment that can deduce the structure and laws beyond the event horizon - none. So how does one utilize something about which we can gain no information (expect surface phenomena)?

It will take more than massive magnetic fields to allow humans to 'gate' around the universe.

Yes. Boy, am I cynical...

[Soapy Sam]

Putting a pulsar in your car improves gas mileage . My mother's hairdresser's dog told me.

[TobiasTheViking]

I don't think the article implies that at all. From the article:
Sorry, my bad.

Hey, what do you want from me, i'm human, hence, i'm not perfect. :D

Hehe

Sincerely
Tobias
I appriciate that correction.

[Earthborn]

Whereas those people who can't even spell 'physicist'I sure know how to spell it: natuurkundige. Question is: can you pronounce it? :p

It occurred to me that you may have said this ironically. I apologize if this is the case.Yes, but still... There is a seriousy undertone...
Can you come up with a way they can explain to the average layman who pays for this research through taxes what the benefit of this research is without resorting to any science fiction claims? :)

[SquishyDave]

Yes, but still... There is a seriousy undertone...
Can you come up with a way they can explain to the average layman who pays for this research through taxes what the benefit of this research is without resorting to any science fiction claims? :)
Oh I can.

"This could potentially invalidate a theory of physics. Trust us, that's a good thing. No really, it's how science works....... Oh, um, we will be able to make the Enterprise!"

Damn, I thought I had it there.

[EHocking]

Putting a pulsar in your car improves gas mileage . My mother's hairdresser's dog told me.
Stupid dog, what's so good about 34mpg? (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/4228.shtml)

[antihippy]

I'll believe it when I see it.

By the way, what is the Scotsman's current status as a reliable news source?

Indeed.

However I would like to point out some things that no one seems to be commenting on:

Firstly: This article is a summarised account of a New Scientist article published on NewScientist.com. For those unaware New Scientist is a British Science magazine. It is well read amongst the academic and lay science communities. That doesn't mean it should be taken with more veracity. It IS a good read.

Secondly: The reason why this article has come about is because the paper proposing the drive won an award from the AIAA. This is a serious body whose job is to promote aerospace engineering. They certainly thought that the paper was noteworthy enough to award a prize in 2005.


Thirdly: Heim's theories are not well understood because he refused to publish in English (see linked article). What testing has been completed suggests that it seems to work for some things. Just because the underying physics is poorly understood (because it wasn't written in English and is a little opaque) doesn't mean that it is wrong. I would say that Heim's work is an intriguing hypothesis that is yet to be proven.
If you like maths take a look.

Fourthly: The proposed experiment will test aspects of the Heim-Grotscher drive. If the experiment fails we should rejoice and throw another failed hypothesis in the library. If it works ... we should rejoice and buy tickets to Mars.

I would post links to all this, but apparently, because I am new I am not allowed to. PM me for more info.

[jj]

If it's entropy, yes. Or hideous alien entities who hate all other life and who can only access our dimension if we help establish a link - them too.

Then you're opposed to life? Life speeds the entropy death of the universe by some small amount, after all.

[Lynx2174]

Then you're opposed to life? Life speeds the entropy death of the universe by some small amount, after all.

I doubt that life increases entropy any signifigant amount. mabye he's against the sun. wasting all that energy by radiating it into space and all. it's a crying shame.

the latest discovery magazine issue mentions stars called magnetars, which are apparently neutron stars with immense rotating magnetic fields, which occasionally reorganize, releasing immense energy. something like the amount of energy the sun makes in a quarter million years. if that much magnetic energy doesn't punch through to another dimension or whatever the engine is hoped to be able to do, I doubt we'll be able to make something that does.

[moopet]

My humble calculations tell me that a three hour trip to Mars is not faster than light, though...

I don't think they plan on travelling above the speed of light for the whole trip - they still rely on accelerating/cruising/decelerating. If the top "speed" was 2c the average speed could still be 20mph for all it matters :)

[GrnMtSkeptic]

My humble calculations tell me that a three hour trip to Mars is not faster than light, though...

Close enough for government work....

[sionep]

http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=16902006

You've got to be s*****g me.-...

I think, that the theory has been around for more than a decade by now. I read a book (only first 3 chapters) by Physicist Kip Thorne from CalTech in 1996, about 'wormholes' . Theoretically, if you can create exotic matter or negative mass, then you can travel from earth to any distant star or galaxy in a distance of about a few meters. Wormholes supposedly form a tunnel with the distance target, that they are (origin & destination) actually position adjacent to one another. This implies that to travel through a wormhole to faraway destination can be done in a small time frame. This sort of theoretical Physics is scary , imaginative but fascinating.

[Kaylee]

I would post links to all this, but apparently, because I am new I am not allowed to. PM me for more info.
Antihippy, can you post the links like this?

www . verycoolwebsite . com

I would appreciate it! Thanks!

[sionep]

This implies that to travel through a wormhole to faraway destination can be done in a small time frame. This sort of theoretical Physics is scary , imaginative but fascinating.

Some links which might be of interesting readings:
-----------------------------------------------

"Wormhole (from Wikipedia)"
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole

"Travelling into the future..."
- http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/wormholes/default.htm

"Wormholes"
- http://www.learnenglish.org.uk/magazine/worm_holes.html

[MRC_Hans]

Nature produces larger magnetic fields than we can hope to ever create. If large magnetic fields can create effects that contradict most physical theories, then there should be signs of such effects out there in the universe already. That seems like a rather more natural place to start.

Pulsars (spinning neutron stars with magnetic fields) have been observed with fields in the range of 10^14 gauss and higher. I think Z-pinch machines can achieve something on the order of 10^8 gauss, which isn't anywhere close to as large. So if we can create new effects in the lab, they should be happening out there in the universe already.Well, actually some of those pulsars have properties that we have to strain the known laws of physics rather hard to explain. For instance, some of them rotate so fast that we have to assume a ridiculously small radius to keep them from exceeding the speed of light around their equator.

So, like an old friend of mine used to say: Something can be there :D .

Hans

[Soapy Sam]

Well, actually some of those pulsars have properties that we have to strain the known laws of physics rather hard to explain. For instance, some of them rotate so fast that we have to assume a ridiculously small radius to keep them from exceeding the speed of light around their equator.

So, like an old friend of mine used to say: Something can be there :D .

Hans

Or the observed data are of questionable accuracy?

[Greyman]

Well, actually some of those pulsars have properties that we have to strain the known laws of physics rather hard to explain. For instance, some of them rotate so fast that we have to assume a ridiculously small radius to keep them from exceeding the speed of light around their equator.

Can you name one of these objects? I'm interested in reading up on them.

-Greyman

ETA- Proper syntax.