other Bush daughter being naughty now

[GrapeJ713]

BUSH TWIN IN THE BUFF?

Hustler magazine publisher Larry Flynt is hunting for a videotape rumored to show first daughter Barbara Bush in the nude, reports The New York Post.

Flynt's cohorts are scouring the New Haven, Conn., campus of Yale University, where Barbara, 21, is a student, in hopes of buying a video supposedly made at one of Yale's notorious ``naked parties.''

``We definitely have heard the story and we definitely have a rep over there,'' Flynt told The Post, ``but so far we have not been able to substantiate anything - yet. But usually where there's smoke, there's fire, so we're still looking.''

A source says Barbara has attended plenty of the bare-all bacchanals, a Yale tradition in which overworked Ivy Leaguers relieve stress by doffing their duds and drinking some suds. The footage in question was allegedly taken at a naked party several months ago, and Flynt's foot soldiers have been in talks with a student who says he is friends with the guy who has the tape.

``Flynt offered the person $1 million,'' says the source. ``But he doesn't have it - he says his friend does. So it's kind of in limbo.''



halfway down the page (http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/5744626.htm)

I just love it when moral do gooders kids end up being drunken floozies.

[Tony]

My sister goes to UT (University of Texas), she has a class with Jenna Bush. One night my sister was at a frat party her boyfriend was spinning at, she said Jenna was there, and that she was piss drunk making an ass out of herself. I thought it was pretty funny. :)

[corplinx]

Originally posted by GrapeJ713


I just love it when moral do gooders kids end up being drunken floozies.


..........

[Cleopatra]

I thought that the non republicans accused the republicans for pseudo-puritanism....

Now What????

Leave the kids out of the political game. The children of both sides. It's very cheap to attack the family of a politican, what kind of hobby is this?

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
I thought that the non republicans accused the republicans for pseudo-puritanism....

Now What????

Leave the kids out of the political game. The children of both sides. It's very cheap to attack the family of a politican, what kind of hobby is this?

I think the conservatives are the one's having a laugh here. We lefties have been too PC to join in.

[Questioninggeller]

Flynt cracks me up. He is this guy who has a lot of time on his hands and too much money. It's great that somebody with as much money as him can waste the money for worth while things...

I must admit during the Clinton saga, what he did was great.

[GrapeJ713]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
I thought that the non republicans accused the republicans for pseudo-puritanism....

Now What????

Leave the kids out of the political game. The children of both sides. It's very cheap to attack the family of a politican, what kind of hobby is this?

Politicians act like they are bastions of morality. But their highly moral parenting style produces some kids that can act pretty much like your average american kid. Gore daughters got drunk, I think one of Gore's kids got a DUI, Jenna and Barbara Bush can't help but act like a typical college student and drink under age and go to naked parties. Just shows the hypocrisy of most politicians that bow and scrape to the religious nut job segment of the USA.

[crackmonkey]

?
How on Earth does a misbehaving kid show that their parents are hypocrites?

[Agammamon]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
I thought that the non republicans accused the republicans for pseudo-puritanism....

Now What????

Leave the kids out of the political game. The children of both sides. It's very cheap to attack the family of a politican, what kind of hobby is this?

Its a fun hobby when the parents of these kids are holding themselves up as paragons of traditional family values and are claiming that not living like they do leads to moral excesses.

[GrapeJ713]

George Bush wanted to have colleges expel kids that got caught drinking underage when he was TX governor, but Jenna didn't get thrown out of UT.
In Jeb Bush's case it is very evident, his daughter gets caught with drugs and she goes to rehab and get multiple chances to clean up her act, anyone elses kid who's daddy wasn't governor would go to jail.

3 of Noelle Bush's mug shots (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/nbushmug1.html)

Another example
On February 25, 1998, Senator Shelby replied:

Drug abuse and drug-related crimes are among the greatest ills that plague our nation. We must take a strong stand against drugs, and I support strict punishment for individuals involved in the possession or distribution of illegal drugs. While I understand your concerns about mandatory penalties for nonviolent offenders, I believe that our nation's drug problem is serious enough to warrant harsh sentences.

Five months later Senator Shelby's 32-year-old son was arrested at the Atlanta airport with 13.8 grams of hashish in his possession. He pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor possession charge, paid two fines totaling $860, performed 40 hours of community service, and was on probation for one year. He didn't spend a single hour in jail or prison.

for more examples click here and scroll down to Some Are More Equal Than Others (http://www.harrybrowne.org/GLO/DrugWar.htm)

[RandFan]

Originally posted by GrapeJ713
Just shows the hypocrisy of most politicians that bow and scrape to the religious nut job segment of the USA. I'm confused, how does the actions of a child show hypocrisy?

There is plenty of hypocricy from "do-gooder" nut jobs. But kids rebel and that has no bearing on the parent as far as I can tels.

[RandFan]

Originally posted by GrapeJ713
Five months later Senator Shelby's 32-year-old son was arrested at the Atlanta airport with 13.8 grams of hashish in his possession. He pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor possession charge, paid two fines totaling $860, performed 40 hours of community service, and was on probation for one year. He didn't spend a single hour in jail or prison. [/URL] If the Senator did something to reduce the punishment of his child then he is a hypocryte. Did the Senator do that?

[corplinx]

Originally posted by GrapeJ713
In Jeb Bush's case it is very evident, his daughter gets caught with drugs and she goes to rehab and get multiple chances to clean up her act, anyone elses kid who's daddy wasn't governor would go to jail.


I'm not sure about that, I thought most states have a drug court where if you tell the judge you know you have a problem and want to get better that the judge will usually sentence you to mandatory rehab?

I should know, my father went to one and he certainly wasnt a governor's son.

[GrapeJ713]

Originally posted by corplinx


I'm not sure about that, I thought most states have a drug court where if you tell the judge you know you have a problem and want to get better that the judge will usually sentence you to mandatory rehab?

I should know, my father went to one and he certainly wasnt a governor's son.

Depends on what state you are in, federal and some state drug courts have mandatory minimum sentences. Politicians talk tough on crime and act morally superior, until someone related to them gets in trouble. Then it becomes a 'family matter we want to handle privately'.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by corplinx


I'm not sure about that, I thought most states have a drug court where if you tell the judge you know you have a problem and want to get better that the judge will usually sentence you to mandatory rehab?

I should know, my father went to one and he certainly wasnt a governor's son.
Your experience doesn't support the notion that "most states" have the same system.

[corplinx]

Originally posted by subgenius

Your experience doesn't support the notion that "most states" have the same system.

Poor choice of words on my part, I meant that "i thought most states had drug courts" and that "i know they exist because I have first-hand knowledge of at least one". Of course, that does not mean every or most states have one.

Please feel free to nitpick further. :)

[subgenius]

Originally posted by corplinx


Poor choice of words on my part, I meant that "i thought most states had drug courts" and that "i know they exist because I have first-hand knowledge of at least one". Of course, that does not mean every or most states have one.

Please feel free to nitpick further. :)
Hardly a nit to assume such a universal social system.

[Smalso]

Originally posted by RandFan
I'm confused, how does the actions of a child show hypocrisy?

There is plenty of hypocricy from "do-gooder" nut jobs. But kids rebel and that has no bearing on the parent as far as I can tels.

Other than providing fuel for the opposition's embarrasment fires, I can't see benefit. Of course, things like this must be reported to avoid the accusations of cover-up. Besides, it's news. The big concern, as far as I am concerned, is the special treatment that seems to be given to celebrities and children of dignitaries, especially if pressure was applied by the parents.

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Smalso
Other than providing fuel for the opposition's embarrasment fires, I can't see benefit. Of course, things like this must be reported to avoid the accusations of cover-up. Besides, it's news. The big concern, as far as I am concerned, is the special treatment that seems to be given to celebrities and children of dignitaries, especially if pressure was applied by the parents. I agree that it should be reported and that the children and other family members should not get special treatment.

But no one has explained how a child acting contrary to a parents wishes is hypocrisy on the part of the parent. I'm sure GrapeJ713 will eventually explain it to us.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by crackmonkey
?
How on Earth does a misbehaving kid show that their parents are hypocrites?

Simple as it could possibly be. If you raise your kids right, they don't behave like that. Look at Chelsea Clinton. Look at Amy Carter. Look at John Kennedy.

It doesn't show that they are hypocrites; it shows that they are lousy parents.

I know several holier-than-thou types who are always full of moral opinions. All of their houses are filthy and all of their children are underachievers and troublemakers.

If Rush Limpbaugh can trash Chelsea Clinton because he thinks she's ugly, we can certainly trash the Bush Girls Gone Wild championship team for being drunken floozies. They are all of age, are they not?

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Sundog
Simple as it could possibly be. If you raise your kids right, they don't behave like that. Look at Chelsea Clinton. Look at Amy Carter. Look at John Kennedy.

It doesn't show that they are hypocrites; it shows that they are lousy parents. Your examples are anecdotal.

Sundog,

While attending the University of Utah I worked for a home for troubled boys. A common theme was the 7th child or black sheep of the family. Now allot of the boys in the home came from bad homes but allot of the boys came from good homes and the parents lamented that they could not understand why "this" child was bad when the others were good. There is no guarantee that proper parenting will produce a well behaved child.

I know several holier-than-thou types who are always full of moral opinions. All of their houses are filthy and all of their children are underachievers and troublemakers. With all due respect Sundog this is meaningless outside of telling us that you see what you want to see. It is anecdotal. I know allot of people full of moral opinions who have raised good kids and have clean homes. I know people who are not holier-than-thou and have filthy homes and lousy kids.

How do you explain the differences between Jimmy and Billy carter? Bill and Roger Clinton? And how on earth did the Eisenhower and Nixon kids turn out so well?

If Rush Limpbaugh can trash Chelsea Clinton because he thinks she's ugly, we can certainly trash the Bush Girls Gone Wild championship team for being drunken floozies. They are all of age, are they not? I might be wrong but I don't think anyone is making the argument that you don't have the right to trash the Bush Girls.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by RandFan
Your examples are anecdotal.

Sundog,

There is no guarantee that proper parenting will produce a well behaved child.



I see your point; but when they all turn out that way, it does give one pause.



With all due respect Sundog this is meaningless outside of telling us that you see what you want to see. It is anecdotal. I know allot of people full of moral opinions who have raised good kids and have clean homes. I know people who are not holier-than-thou and have filthy homes and lousy kids.



Damn, I can't get away with anything with you. ;) The point I'm trying to make is that very often people don't practice what they preach, or their child-rearing theories fail in actual practice. Who hasn't heard of the preacher's daughter syndrome?

I might be wrong but I don't think anyone is making the argument that you don't have the right to trash the Bush Girls.

Yes, you are incorrect about this; someone above was complaining that we should leave the families out of this. If they're of age, I say their public behavior is fair game.

[GrapeJ713]

Originally posted by RandFan
I agree that it should be reported and that the children and other family members should not get special treatment.

But no one has explained how a child acting contrary to a parents wishes is hypocrisy on the part of the parent. I'm sure GrapeJ713 will eventually explain it to us.

Well, the politicians try to uphold moral virtues and keep stupid laws (all victimless crimes) on the books because of moral reasons. Yet, they don't have enough moral leadership to convince thier kids they shouldn't drink underage or do drugs or anything else illegal. If they can't convince thier own kids to not break laws that are soley based on morality, how do they expect to convince the people they shouldn't do such things.
Also, I just find it really funny when bible thumping goody goodys have kids that don't turn out to be goody goodys themselves. I grew up in a land surrounded by a very large cult, The Texas Baptists, most all of them were very big hypocrites (want abortion to be illegal, but pay the doctor for a DNC when thier teenage girl got knocked up)
It is the whole nature vs. nurture debate that has been going on for years. I don't mean to imply becuase someone has a bad kid they are bad parents. For example, my great Aunt had 5 kids and 4 of them all went to college and got jobs and eventually got married, but one son was a screw up from an early age and got into drugs and committed suicide before he was 30.

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Sundog
Look at John Kennedy. I seem to remember a story of a party with lots of alchol, sex on the beach and an acusation of rape. Ted Kennedy of course was there. Let's see wasn't it William Kennedy Smith who was accused of rape? Yes it was. Question, were his parents "lousy parents?"

And are the actions of the Bush daughters truly indictiave of seriously bad behavior or are they typical of kids there age?

Is it possible that George and Laura were good parents and have very normal kids?

[subgenius]

I volunteer to give them both a spanking.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by RandFan
And are the actions of the Bush daughters truly indictiave of seriously bad behavior or are they typical of kids there age?

Is it possible that George and Laura were good parents and have very normal kids?

Judgement call I suppose.

Most of my argument is emotional, I admit it; I'm still gritting my teeth over how some on the right continually trashed Amy and Chelsea years ago, two admirable young people who never appear to have done anything wrong in their lives except be examples for other kids to live up to. Maybe I'm just enjoying a little revenge.


Keep calling me on things like this, it's good for me.

[RandFan]

Originally posted by GrapeJ713
Well, the politicians try to uphold moral virtues and keep stupid laws (all victimless crimes) on the books because of moral reasons. Yet, they don't have enough moral leadership to convince thier kids they shouldn't drink underage or do drugs or anything else illegal. If they can't convince thier own kids to not break laws that are soley based on morality, how do they expect to convince the people they shouldn't do such things. So let me see if I understand you correctly. If a politician has a child that is a murderer then that politician would be a hypocrite if he/she tried to keep laws concerning murder on the books?

If a politician has a child that steals or breaks any other law then that politician becomes a hypocrite if he/she advocates laws that are contrary to their children's behavior?

Martin Sheen takes a strong stance against drugs. He advocates harsh sentencing for drug offenders. His son abused drugs. Is Martin Sheen a hypocrite?

Also, I just find it really funny when bible thumping goody goodys have kids that don't turn out to be goody goodys themselves. I grew up in a land surrounded by a very large cult, The Texas Baptists, most all of them were very big hypocrites (want abortion to be illegal, but pay the doctor for a DNC when thier teenage girl got knocked up) Sounds very anecdotal to me. And you have personal knowledge of all these payoffs of abortions? Let me guess, a friend of a friend told you that she heard that her uncle was a friend of the doctor that performed the abortions.

Sounds specious to me.

It is the whole nature vs. nurture debate that has been going on for years. I don't mean to imply because someone has a bad kid they are bad parents. For example, my great Aunt had 5 kids and 4 of them all went to college and got jobs and eventually got married, but one son was a screw up from an early age and got into drugs and committed suicide before he was 30. I think that there is a level of hypocrisy from "do-gooders". I don't think that the children of these people can prove such hypocrisy. And certainly no one has provided anything more than anecdotal accounts. Is that all that there is to prove these ideas?

[RandFan]

Originally posted by subgenius
I volunteer to give them both a spanking. :D

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Sundog
Judgement call I suppose.

Most of my argument is emotional, I admit it; I'm still gritting my teeth over how some on the right continually trashed Amy and Chelsea years ago, two admirable young people who never appear to have done anything wrong in their lives except be examples for other kids to live up to. Maybe I'm just enjoying a little revenge.


Keep calling me on things like this, it's good for me. That's cool, and to be sure I have many, many anecdotal stories about hypocritical doo-gooder Mormons. There is a point in there that you are making and I will grant it to you.

[GrapeJ713]

Originally posted by RandFan
So let me see if I understand you correctly. If a politician has a child that is a murderer then that politician would be a hypocrite if he/she tried to keep laws concerning murder on the books?

If a politician has a child that steals or breaks any other law then that politician becomes a hypocrite if he/she advocates laws that are contrary to their children's behavior?
?

I said Victimless Crimes, those base on morals (drugs, some adults can't drink, gambling etc.), not crimes infringing on other people's civil or property rights (theft, assualt, murder, fraud)

[Sundog]

Originally posted by RandFan
That's cool, and to be sure I have many, many anecdotal stories about hypocritical doo-gooder Mormons. There is a point in there that you are making and I will grant it to you.

I was halfway through my silly argument when I thought of all the wild sh*t I did when in college (and later...) and how the job my parents did in raising me couldn't possibly have been improved upon.

:o

[RandFan]

Originally posted by GrapeJ713
I said Victimless Crimes, those base on morals (drugs, some adults can't drink, gambling etc.), not crimes infringing on other people's civil or property rights (theft, assualt, murder, fraud) I don't think that changes the equation. So you are saying that it is only applicable to victimless crimes. Why?

If a person who advoctes stiff penalties to murders and has a child who is a murder is not a hypocrite then how is a person who advocates stiff penalties against those with drug charges and has a child that uses drugs a hypocrite?

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Sundog


I was halfway through my silly argument when I thought of all the wild sh*t I did when in college (and later...) and how the job my parents did in raising me couldn't possibly have been improved upon.

:o
Truly insightful. Hope they're still living so you can tell them.
It is good to remember the way we were. And that parents can do a great job and have wayward kids.
One reason I'm opposed to punishing parents for everything their kids do.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by subgenius

Truly insightful. Hope they're still living so you can tell them.


One piece of guilt I do NOT have is that one. My mother is alive and nearly every time I talk to her the subject of what a good upbringing I got (and how grateful I am) comes up. The fact that she thinks I'm raising my own kids well means a great deal to me, because she was and is a perfect parent.

My dad died two years ago, but believe me I made damn sure he knew what I thought about him.

[GrapeJ713]

Originally posted by RandFan
I don't think that changes the equation. So you are saying that it is only applicable to victimless crimes. Why?
Because victimless crimes are based on morals not the infringing of another person' rights.

Originally posted by RandFan If a person who advoctes stiff penalties to murders and has a child who is a murder is not a hypocrite then how is a person who advocates stiff penalties against those with drug charges and has a child that uses drugs a hypocrite? [/B]

Only if they tried to get thier child off when they know they are guilty.

When politicians kids don't learn from thier parent's moral direction, how can the politicians expect the country to learn from thier moral direction. And when those kids get in trouble, they get special treatment because their parent is in power. That is hypcocrisy. You either believe ALL drug users should be locked up or you DON'T. A can only equal A, it can't equal anything else as someone once said.

[Smalso]

sundog: If Rush Limpbaugh can trash Chelsea Clinton because he thinks she's ugly, we can certainly trash the Bush Girls Gone Wild championship team for being drunken floozies. They are all of age, are they not?

Two wrongs don't make a right. You've got to come up with a better reason than that to trash the Bush girls. And, since when did anything Rush Limbaugh says make an iota of difference anyway?

[RandFan]

Originally posted by GrapeJ713
Because victimless crimes are based on morals not the infringing of another person' rights. Sorry Grape it doesn't wash. First let me say that I'm libertarian (as opposed to "a" Libertarian) and I am on your side. But there is no question that "victimless" crimes carry a social cost. Many people who support such laws do so because they believe that such laws would benefit society as opposed to feeling superior to those who brake such laws.

When politician's kids don't learn from their parent's moral direction, how can the politicians expect the country to learn from their moral direction. Please see Logic & Fallacies (http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html)

And that brings us back to my example. If a politician's child who commits murder doesn't learn from their parent's moral direction, how can the politicians expect the country to learn from their moral direction and not commit murder?

It simply does not follow that because a child doesn't follow his parent's example that other people won't follow the parent's example. "If Charlie Sheen's father told him it was bad to use drugs and Charlie Sheen used drugs, would you use drugs?"

Sure there are people who make poor choices based upon other people's poor choices but that can't be blamed on the parent who counseled his child not to make poor choices.

If your logic were valid then it would be appropriate to punish a politician for a child's behavior. In fact we can carry your logic out further to say that we should criminally punish the parent for the sins of the child.

Now if the Parent abused drugs and told everyone else that using drugs was bad then that person would be a hypocrite. It would still not make it ok for people to use drugs and blame it on the parent or politician.

And when those kids get in trouble, they get special treatment because their parent is in power. Invalid, that some children of parents in power get special treatment does not mean that all children with parents in power get special treatment.

And you are making two different arguments that don't necessarily square. Are you saying that only children who are guilty of "non violent crimes" get special treatment?

That is hypcocrisy. You either believe ALL drug users should be locked up or you DON'T. A can only equal A, it can't equal anything else as someone once said. I will resist the temptation to comment on lessons in logic.

Grape, I'm not immune from fallacy and I'm not really the expert that I act like sometimes so don't get pissed at me (angry for those across the pond) but could you clarify your logic?

[PygmyPlaidGiraffe]

Originally posted by crackmonkey
?
How on Earth does a misbehaving kid show that their parents are hypocrites?


good question .

Aren't the kids involved adults by law, making their own decisions, independant presumably, from their parents.

[Smalso]

Originally posted by PygmyPlaidGiraffe



good question .

Aren't the kids involved adults by law, making their own decisions, independant presumably, from their parents.

Yes they are; and presumably responsible for their own actions.

I am not a great fan of Bush; but I would like to read something from someone about how the antics of his children have anything at all to do with his qualifications and abilities to be President of the United States. A couple of college students party down and get blasted, the world keeps on spinning. A couple of countries get blasted and the world could very well stop. There are so many other genuine issues that need to be debated

[GrapeJ713]

Originally posted by RandFan
Grape, I'm not immune from fallacy and I'm not really the expert that I act like sometimes so don't get pissed at me (angry for those across the pond) but could you clarify your logic? [/B]

victimless vs. rights based crimes, I was only trying to make a point about victimless crimes like underage adults drinking, and drugs not about violation of rights crimes. If I wanted to do that then I would have brought in a few Kennedy examples of what happens when you drown a girl in a river or beat a girl to death with a golf club. (first example got away with it and is now the poster boy for term limits, second example - took about 30 years to bring to justice)

Ok, not All children of people in power get special treatment, but I don't think it's Some children either, I think it's closer to MOST children, unless you can find many more examples of rich powerful people's kids given the same sentence as a middle class or poor person with no connections to powerful people. It could be just an unintended consequence of the state of the US justice system that rich people can employ better slimy lawyers than the middle class and poor can employ. Unless a famous slimy lawyer wants to do it for free publicity.

Politicians that take a hard line and vote a hard line on drugs but then try to get thier children lighter sentences are hypocrites, same goes with underage adult drinking and other victimless crimes.

As far as the moral leadership, that might not be technically hypocrisy, maybe it's a synonym, choose from the list below.

Synonyms for hypocrisy, hypocriticalness, pecksniffery, pharisaicalness, pharisaism, sanctimoniousness, sanctimony, sham, Tartuffery, Tartuffism
Related Words - pietism, religiosity; casuistry, glibness, insincerity, self-righteousness, unctiousness; charlatanry, humbug, quackery

When goody goody people's kids don't act like goody goodys and more like your average young person I still think it is very funny. The more powerful and more goody goody-ish the parent the funnier the kids' behavior is.

[subgenius]

And now for an update (geez, I still want to spank them):

For the May 29th issue of the mag, on stands Friday, May 9th, Ashton shares tidbits from his sometimes loco life -- including an unforgettable party with the Bush gals. He tells Rolling Stone: "So we're hanging out ... The Bushes were underage drinking at my house. When I checked outside, one of the Secret Service guys asked me if they'd be spending the night. I said no. And then I go upstairs to see another friend and I can smell the green wafting out under his door. I open the door, and there he is smoking out the Bush twins on his hookah.
http://www.etonline.com/celebrity/a15722.htm

[subgenius]

Twins, hookah, conservatives, people in jail for marijuana that aren't republicans. Is this thing on?