How is the god of Abraham more real than Zeus?

[Johnny Pixels]

I've asked this question at http://www.hannity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48649 as well.


As an atheist I have been accused of being a fantasist, and told that gods like Zeus, Mars and Venus are all made up to hide from the fact that people were denying the one true god, the god of Abraham.

My question is, how can you be so sure? In ancient times people were totally convinced of the existence of these gods, much in the same way christians are of their god, but these same christians seem to look back and say, "oh they were so silly" but then to me these christians appear to be no different than the people that believed in ancient gods.


Any thoughts?

[Melendwyr]

He isn't.

Next question.

[Ryokan]

Which god of Abraham, Jehova or Allah?

[Darat]

Look how he is defined in the Bible, and see if the gaps he used to live in have been filled in.

[TragicMonkey]

Didn't Abraham start out in Ur, as a worshipper of all those Sumerian/Babylonian gods, then get lured into monotheism by the strange god that offered him candy and promised lands?

[Johnny Pixels]

Which god of Abraham, Jehova or Allah?

Either will do really.

[hammegk]

Perhaps it's just your choice to make for yourself, now?

The meme of spirituality runs deep.

[Iacchus]

Which god of Abraham, Jehova or Allah?Jove? ... No, that was another name for Zeus.

[David Swidler]

Jehovah=Allah
Jove=Zeus=Jupiter

Those are just names in different languages for the same thing.

[kedo1981]

Nearly all the Gods of the people who lived around the Mediterranean are just renamed versions of each other

[jjramsey]

Jehovah=Allah

Linguistically, "Allah" is a lot closer to the Hebrew "Elohim" than to YHWH. "Elohim" is the plural of "eloh," meaning "god," and IIRC, "Allah" is a contraction of "al illah," meaning "the god." "Illah" is the Arabic cognate of the Hebrew "eloh."

[Glite]

What about Odin (Wodan)?
What about the beliefs of the Native Americans?

[Glite]

I would say that the belief of the day is attributed to who preaches the loudest, who can scare the most people, and who can find the people in need of a quick answer.

[Johnny Pixels]

I originally asked the question becuase as far as I know, no-one still worships Zeus, but at the time, people were devout believers, much like people who believe in jehovah or allah today. Zeus has mostly been explained away by science, and the Abrahamic god followers tend to look back at Zeus followers and acknowledge that they were misguided or whatever, but they can't seem to accept that as an atheist, I see them in exactly the same way. I think this is a reasonable viewpoint, but they won't let me have it.

[Skeptical Greg]

Just start praying.. The one who answers your prayers, is the real God..
And when you find out, let us all know, so we don't waste a lot of time praying to the wrong God like I did..


Make sure you ask for something realistic, like a pony, a bike or to make your daddy come home.. That's how I found out it's all a bunch of crap..

[Iacchus]

I originally asked the question becuase as far as I know, no-one still worships Zeus, but at the time, people were devout believers, much like people who believe in jehovah or allah today. Zeus has mostly been explained away by science, and the Abrahamic god followers tend to look back at Zeus followers and acknowledge that they were misguided or whatever, but they can't seem to accept that as an atheist, I see them in exactly the same way. I think this is a reasonable viewpoint, but they won't let me have it.Notwithstanding that there are many (con-) tributaries to the main-stream. ;)

[Johnny Pixels]

Notwithstanding that there are many (con-) tributaries to the main-stream. ;)

If you're suggesting that religions have moved on and (dare I say it evolved) so that where once people worshipped Zeus, now the religion has changed, calling him something else and using different rituals, then yes I'd probably agree to that.

I still don't think that it makes God/Zeus/whatever more real or believable though.

[Iacchus]

If you're suggesting that religions have moved on and (dare I say it evolved) so that where once people worshipped Zeus, now the religion has changed, calling him something else and using different rituals, then yes I'd probably agree to that.

I still don't think that it makes God/Zeus/whatever more real or believable though.It doesn't make it any less implausible either.

[Johnny Pixels]

It doesn't make it any less implausible either.

Peasant: Behold! as the mighty sun god Athulza pulls his flaming chariot into the sky, to dispel the dark and bring us light

Scientist: Actually it's a ball of gas and stuff whic creates light and heat through nuclear fusion.

Peasant: Behold! as almighty Jevusnah, the god of light throws the ball of the sun into the air.

Scientist: Actually the Earth orbits the sun, due to gravity.

Peasant:Behold! The most powerful god Greneshvksy, the creator of the Sun and the Earth, in perfect orbits, where the life he created in perfect form can live in happiness.

Scientist: Actually life evolved from tiny organisms in to its present form.

Peasant: Oh you're no fun anymore.

[TobiasTheViking]

Peasant: Behold! as the mighty sun god Athulza pulls his flaming chariot into the sky, to dispel the dark and bring us light

Scientist: Actually it's a ball of gas and stuff whic creates light and heat through nuclear fusion.

Peasant: Behold! as almighty Jevusnah, the god of light throws the ball of the sun into the air.

Scientist: Actually the Earth orbits the sun, due to gravity.

Peasant:Behold! The most powerful god Greneshvksy, the creator of the Sun and the Earth, in perfect orbits, where the life he created in perfect form can live in happiness.

Scientist: Actually life evolved from tiny organisms in to its present form.

Peasant: Oh you're no fun anymore.

I fear you forgot to make incredibly stupid and bland statements that are clearly false, while trying to make it sound like you really know what you are talking about.

While the approach you used above was very good, and would usually work, i fear it will miss the mark wíth this specific.... client...

[Iacchus]

And you've just explained that this God of enlightenment (of science now) has a practical aspect. So?

[KingMerv00]

And you've just explained that this God of enlightenment (of science now) has a practical aspect. So?

I think he is saying that part of the reason God is still worshipped is because he is impossible to falsify.

Zues was an humanoid that lived on a mountain and threw lightning javelins. Closer inspection reveals no man and no javelins on said mountain.

God doesn't live anywhere. He doesn't do anything that would be considered testable. He is immune to logic so His religion survives.

[Beerina]

I think he is saying that part of the reason God is still worshipped is because he is impossible to falsify.

Zues was an humanoid that lived on a mountain and threw lightning javelins. Closer inspection reveals no man and no javelins on said mountain.

God doesn't live anywhere. He doesn't do anything that would be considered testable. He is immune to logic so His religion survives.

In other words, religion evolved to that point, the gods becoming more and more powerful so as to one-ups the neighboring religion, while simultaneously becoming more and more detatched to explain the lack of actual intervention, i.e. miracles.

We end up with an infinitely and all-powerful god who refuses to be tested, and refuses to show his face except, perhaps, in oblique ways that are indistinguishible from fantasies and mental disorders, and he highly values belief without proof.

[sackett]

Peasant: Behold! as the mighty sun god Athulza pulls his flaming chariot into the sky, to dispel the dark and bring us light

Scientist: Actually it's a ball of gas and stuff whic creates light and heat through nuclear fusion.

Peasant: Behold! as almighty Jevusnah, the god of light throws the ball of the sun into the air.

Scientist: Actually the Earth orbits the sun, due to gravity.

Peasant:Behold! The most powerful god Greneshvksy, the creator of the Sun and the Earth, in perfect orbits, where the life he created in perfect form can live in happiness.

Scientist: Actually life evolved from tiny organisms in to its present form.

Peasant: Oh you're no fun anymore.


Goddurnit, Johnny! Look at the mess you made of my screen! I was 3/4 of the way through my morning coffee and danish and then you had to come along and make me LOL like a braying donkey!

[Johnny Pixels]

Goddurnit, Johnny! Look at the mess you made of my screen! I was 3/4 of the way through my morning coffee and danish and then you had to come along and make me LOL like a braying donkey!

Thank you, I'll be here all week :)

[Johnny Pixels]

In other words, religion evolved to that point, the gods becoming more and more powerful so as to one-ups the neighboring religion, while simultaneously becoming more and more detatched to explain the lack of actual intervention, i.e. miracles.

We end up with an infinitely and all-powerful god who refuses to be tested, and refuses to show his face except, perhaps, in oblique ways that are indistinguishible from fantasies and mental disorders, and he highly values belief without proof.

I never thought of it like that, but I think that's pretty much my position too.