"We went to war just to boost the white male ego" Mailer

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Will someone, anyone, PLEASE humiliate this lunatic ?


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,482-662789,00.html

[Mr Manifesto]

If you strongly believe in your convictions and if Mailer is truely that illogical can't you do it yourself?

[Mr Manifesto]

You could even do it in this very thread. Why did America go to war with Iraq?

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Why did America go to war with Iraq? [/B]


Terrorist Support (Sept 11 + more), WMD, Totalitarian, Violation of many UN resolutions, Extreme Human Rights Violations, mo and mo


and here is more :

http://aaronn.monoperative.net/war.html

[Mr Manifesto]

There. You have humilated Mailer. Are you happy?

[Seismosaurus]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
You could even do it in this very thread. Why did America go to war with Iraq?

Does it matter why they did it?

That sounds like an outrageous question, but think about it.

Say a woman is being attacked in the street - an attempted rape. A passerby walks up and bashes the rapist on the back of the head, knocking him out.

The woman gets up and says "oh thank you! I didn't think anybody would help, so few people care about others these days."

The guy shrugs and replies "Lady, I don't care a jot about you. I just like hitting people."

So... the man had all the wrong reasons for doing what he did. But so what? What he did was still right, wasn't it?

I don't really care what George Bush's motivations were. I think the war was justified by the fact that it liberated the Iraqi people from Saddam. And if US companies end up making colossal money from rebuilding Iraq - again, so what? Iraq needs rebuilding anyway, so why shouldn't the people who did the liberating get some payback for their trouble?

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
There. You have humilated Mailer. Are you happy?


you're boring. :p

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser



http://aaronn.monoperative.net/war.html

No less nuttier or illogical than the Mailer article, imo.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Seismosaurus


Does it matter why they did it?

That sounds like an outrageous question, but think about it.

Say a woman is being attacked in the street - an attempted rape. A passerby walks up and bashes the rapist on the back of the head, knocking him out.

The woman gets up and says "oh thank you! I didn't think anybody would help, so few people care about others these days."

The guy shrugs and replies "Lady, I don't care a jot about you. I just like hitting people."

So... the man had all the wrong reasons for doing what he did. But so what? What he did was still right, wasn't it?

I don't really care what George Bush's motivations were. I think the war was justified by the fact that it liberated the Iraqi people from Saddam. And if US companies end up making colossal money from rebuilding Iraq - again, so what? Iraq needs rebuilding anyway, so why shouldn't the people who did the liberating get some payback for their trouble?

And only 2000 civilians had to die for the liberation. And now of course if any country wants to ignore world opinion and go to war with whoever they want they have a pretext to do so.

"You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs"
"All I see are broken eggs... Show me this omelette of yours."

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by BillyTK


No less nuttier or illogical than the Mailer article, imo.


facts are so so nutty.


mailers opinion I would say has a greater chance of actually being screwball, as it is simply an opinion with many degrees of "neglected to mention"s in the argument.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser



Terrorist Support (Sept 11 + more), WMD, Totalitarian, Violation of many UN resolutions, Extreme Human Rights Violations, mo and mo


www.thismodernworld.com

http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2002/11/18/tomo/story.jpg

Nie Essen StierScheiße

[crackmonkey]

Norman Mailer - "I'm controversial and edgy! I make you THINK!
Please tell me I'm still relevant..."

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


www.thismodernworld.com

Nie Essen StierScheiße


you had to resort to that lame cartoon from salon.com to make a point ?

maybe mildly entertaining, inbetween nose picking for you, but find another way to respond other than hogwash entertainment disguised as a good arguments.

[Seismosaurus]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


And only 2000 civilians had to die for the liberation. And now of course if any country wants to ignore world opinion and go to war with whoever they want they have a pretext to do so.

"You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs"
"All I see are broken eggs... Show me this omelette of yours."

But how many would have died without the war? How many did Saddam kill each year that he was in power?

I've seen articles suggesting that Saddam killed 50,000 just since Gulf War I - that's nearly 4,000 a year.

How many dead Iraqis is it worth, to keep the blood off our hands?

[Tmy]

Originally posted by Seismosaurus


But how many would have died without the war? How many did Saddam kill each year that he was in power?

\

How amny people are killed in Texas each year? Maybe they had it coming. People act as if Saddm was a serial killer , wacking people just for kicks.

[crackmonkey]

Oh... so Saddam was just a 'law-n-order' type of guy? Thank God he managed to rid Iraq of all those criminals... he is just so misunderstood.

[corplinx]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser



you had to resort to that lame cartoon from salon.com to make a point ?


Ive got Manifesto on ignore, but I saw he linked modern world. Jeez, that cartoon was great when I was a 16 year old bohemian wanna be. I outgrew it though. :)

[Supercharts]

Originally posted by crackmonkey
Norman Mailer - "I'm controversial and edgy! I make you THINK!
Please tell me I'm still relevant..."

Excellent summary! :D :D :D

[Tmy]

Originally posted by crackmonkey
Oh... so Saddam was just a 'law-n-order' type of guy? Thank God he managed to rid Iraq of all those criminals... he is just so misunderstood.


I juts find it funny that in other threads its OK for soilders to fire on Iraqis, and its ok to hold children in Camp X ray, but when Saddam does it its th worst thing ever. (as if we care about Iraqis)

[Seismosaurus]

Originally posted by Tmy


How amny people are killed in Texas each year? Maybe they had it coming. People act as if Saddm was a serial killer , wacking people just for kicks.

I think that's a pretty fair summary. But then maybe I was biased by seeing some of his torture chambers just recently.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by corplinx


Ive got Manifesto on ignore, but I saw he linked modern world. Jeez, that cartoon was great when I was a 16 year old bohemian wanna be. I outgrew it though. :)

You are certainly the pinnacle of maturity now. If you don't agree with someone you put them on ignore. :rolleyes:

[Mike B.]

Well at least it is not another article bragging about all the women he has slept with.

[Skeptic]

And only 2000 civilians had to die for the liberation.

a). a lot less, and b). that's far less than the number of civilians Saddam used to execute every year. Of course, you could also say that since some civilian Frenchmen and Dutch were killed by the US liberating Europe in WWII, it was an evil act of American imperialism, too.

And now of course if any country wants to ignore world opinion and go to war with whoever they want they have a pretext to do so.

Why, yes, I keep forgetting that Sudan, Ivory Coast, the Taliban, the Soviet Union, etc., etc., etc. were SOOOOOOO considerate of "world public opinion"--which is why, as we all know, there was world peace before the dastardly American invasion of Iraq gave everybody just the excuse they needed for agression.

"All I see are broken eggs... Show me this omelette of yours."

We can start with the fact that Saddam Hussein, his secret police, his army, his jails, his executioners, his corruption, his theft, and the rest are gone.

Quite a tasty omelette for that part of the world, especially if you are, for example, a freed political prisoner of his regime. Care to tell any of THEM the war was "evil"?

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Skeptic


a). a lot less...

wrong (http://www.iraqbodycount.net/)


Why, yes, I keep forgetting that Sudan, Ivory Coast, the Taliban, the Soviet Union, etc., etc., etc. were SOOOOOOO considerate of "world public opinion"--which is why, as we all know, there was world peace before the dastardly American invasion of Iraq gave everybody just the excuse they needed for agression.

Well if other countries are worse than America that makes America's actions all right then.



We can start with the fact that Saddam Hussein, his secret police, his army, his jails, his executioners, his corruption, his theft, and the rest are gone.

Quite a tasty omelette for that part of the world, especially if you are, for example, a freed political prisoner of his regime. Care to tell any of THEM the war was "evil"?

No. Are you going to tell Iraq's next generation of political prisoners that the war which gave them the government that imprisoned them and killed their love ones was for their own good? You don't have to wait long either. You can go to Afghanistan and see it happening right now.

[Seismosaurus]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


wrong (http://www.iraqbodycount.net/)



Well if other countries are worse than America that makes America's actions all right then.

Not hardly. But you were the one who claimed that this war will give others the justification they need for their own wars. If I read Skeptic right he was merely pointing out that since the nations he names conducted wars before GW II, your point is moot - agressors will fight no matter what, so trying to set a good example accomplishes nothing.


No. Are you going to tell Iraq's next generation of political prisoners that the war which gave them the government that imprisoned them and killed their love ones was for their own good? You don't have to wait long either. You can go to Afghanistan and see it happening right now.

This rather depends on whether there is going to be a next generation of Iraqi political prisoners, which we don't know. Unless you are claiming an ability to forsee the future, in which case there's a guy around here somewhere who might be willing to give you a million dollars...

[Skeptic]

Well if other countries are worse than America that makes America's actions all right then.

You missed the point. You claimed the US actions would be used by other nations to JUSTIFY their actions. But, as shown, many nations are at war as we speak, and none of them ever felt it had to have the specific justification "the US did it too" as a reason to go to war. Anything from "protecting the workers from imperialism" to "butcher the infidels" would do just as well, thankyouverymuch.

Besides, it doesn't matter. Only rarely do the "official" reasons nations and leaders give for a war the ACTUAL reason they use it. (The US and the western democracies are an exception, in the sense that their official reasons are relatively close to the truth, at least.) So even IF nation X chooses the excuse "the US did it" as its justification for starting a war--a rather lame one, propaganda-wise--it will merely going to BE an excuse, not the real reason; it goes without saying that no nation, in the history of mankind, had ever gone to war with its neighbor just because some other nation somewhere else did it as well.

No. Are you going to tell Iraq's next generation of political prisoners that the war which gave them the government that imprisoned them and killed their love ones was for their own good?

That depends on whether they'll BE any more political prisoners in Iraq, doesn't it? What IS certain, however, is that if Saddam HAD remained in power, then the ranks of political prisoners would have continued to grow--and that in that case, there WOULD have been future political prisoners as well, for sure.

I don't need to "apologize" to hypothetical "future prisoners" that don't exist and--at least now--it is hopeful that they never will. You, however, should perhaps consider apologizing, not only to Saddam's past and current victims for wishing to keep him in power, but also to those who would have certainly suffered from him in the future, had he remained the ruler.