George Will hates America

[JLam]

Well, he MUST hate America, because he's criticizing Republicans (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/09/AR2006010901428.html).

The past five years, during which the number of registered lobbyists more than doubled, have proved that, for some Republicans, conservative virtue was merely the absence of opportunity for vice

Wait...he IS a Republican! Huh?

I'm so confused.

[Grammatron]

Well, he MUST hate America, because he's criticizing Republicans (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/09/AR2006010901428.html).


Wait...he IS a Republican! Huh?

I'm so confused.

Aside from some BS rhetoric from some of the posters here, when did criticizing Republicans become the same as hating America?

[back2basics]

I am never surprised by Republican politicians defending Bush, still. I am not even surprised that they in limited numbers are saying exactly what we have been saying for 4 years. What really surprises me, is the amateur echo chamber on mesageboards, still repeating talking points (you can actually tell which right wing hack they get their talking points from, by the way they parrot their talking point, if you watch really closely), still defending the indefensible. Where do these people get off? I can understand people in the south who only get their news from Fox or CNN, being a little unsure about what is going on. After all that’s their strategy, limit who gets what information and confuse those who get the correct information. But some of the fundies who still defend things like torture or the NSA are just beyond hope.

They clearly don’t give a dam about America and should be sent to Iraq immediately to clean up their own mess ;)

[Upchurch]

Including my sig, this is the second of George Will's columns that I have ever read (to my memory), so my George Will context is relatively narrow.

However, what I see here is a traditional conservative criticizing a not-so-traditionally-conservative Republican party and I say more power to him.

[billydkid]

Aside from some BS rhetoric from some of the posters here, when did criticizing Republicans become the same as hating America?

You honestly don't understand the point he is trying to make?

[CBL4]

George Will is a conservative columnist. However, he is not a partisan columnist. He will criticize Republican whom he disagrees with. I do not particular like Will's viewpoint nor do I think he is particularly insiteful. However, I do respect him for showing the flaws of his allies. This is something that the more rabid and typically younger commentators lack.

CBL

[Mycroft]

Aside from some BS rhetoric from some of the posters here, when did criticizing Republicans become the same as hating America?

Many of the "skeptical" liberals here have abandoned arguing with actual people and instead confront Steven Colberts parody of conservatism from Comedy Central's "The Colbert Report."

You must agree it's much easier than debating real ideas with real people.

[Melendwyr]

It's becoming harder and harder to distinguish absurdist versions of conservatism from actual versions of conservatism. You've helped to blur that line more than a little, Mycroft. What makes you think you can pretend the distinction is still clear?

[aerocontrols]

You honestly don't understand the point he is trying to make?

He obviously disagrees with the point JLam was trying to make.

[Mycroft]

It's becoming harder and harder to distinguish absurdist versions of conservatism from actual versions of conservatism.

I disagree, at least for rational people. Your perceptual problems can not be blamed on others.


You've helped to blur that line more than a little, Mycroft. What makes you think you can pretend the distinction is still clear?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1363723#post1363723

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1363701#post1363701

:oldroll:

[Nyarlathotep]

Aside from some BS rhetoric from some of the posters here, when did criticizing Republicans become the same as hating America?


It's always been the same thing in the wonderful land of sarcasm, from which I think the comment hailed.

[Grammatron]

You honestly don't understand the point he is trying to make?

Which "he", George Will or JLam?

[Manny]

Heck, Republicans argue amongst ourselves all the time. We just normally don't bother to tell the Democrats on account of they're just not relevent. :D

[Nyarlathotep]

Many of the "skeptical" liberals here have abandoned arguing with actual people and instead confront Steven Colberts parody of conservatism from Comedy Central's "The Colbert Report."

You must agree it's much easier than debating real ideas with real people.

ANd the "skeptical" conservatives here NEVER joust at straw liberalism. No siree, bob. That would be, like, wrong and stuff.

Honestly, I find that partisans on both sides have straw versions of the other side that they love to beat up on.

[Year Zero]

Both these parties suck. Bring back the WHIGS!!!

[JLam]

I was making a slight joke about the more partisan conservative commentators who sometimes equate dissent with "hating America." It was just a little joke.

I don't consider myself a conservative, but I'm not a liberal either. I like George Will because he doesn't simply tout the current party line. He's a true conservative who sticks to his positions, and that's admirable whether you agree with him or not.

[Grammatron]

Both these parties suck. Bring back the WHIGS!!!

Slavery supporter are we?

[Year Zero]

Slavery supporter are we?

I live in a right-to-work border state. We're already halfway there anyway.

[jj]

Aside from some BS rhetoric from some of the posters here, when did criticizing Republicans become the same as hating America?

We ARE discussing this here, aren't we, Grams?

[Regnad Kcin]

Mr. Will does not always criticize Republicans nor take sides with Democrats when it might be appropriate to do either. He has his agenda just like any other commentator. That he, er, will take on an issue doesn't mean he's always Mr. Fair-minded.

I do enjoy his musings on baseball though.

[Tony]

Slavery supporter are we?

Weren't the Whigs anti-slavery?

[RandFan]

Many of the "skeptical" liberals here have abandoned arguing with actual people and instead confront Steven Colberts parody of conservatism from Comedy Central's "The Colbert Report."

You must agree it's much easier than debating real ideas with real people.Bingo. Bear in mind a lot of people get their news from the Daily Show.

[DavidJames]

Many of the "skeptical" liberals here have abandoned arguing with actual people and instead confront Steven Colberts parody of conservatism from Comedy Central's "The Colbert Report."
Many? Really? who?

[Freakshow]

Many? Really? who?I think that is exactly what was happening here: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1368216#post1368216

[Grammatron]

Weren't the Whigs anti-slavery?
Eh, both.

[peptoabysmal]

Well, he MUST hate America, because he's criticizing Republicans (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/09/AR2006010901428.html).


Wait...he IS a Republican! Huh?

I'm so confused.

I happen to agree with Will's assessment. The Bush administration was over the top in pork spending and I think there should be term limits on congress.
So far, I only hear criticisms like this from conservatives. The "left" seems to want to rail on about supposed loss of constitutional freedom, abortion and the Iraq war.

[Year Zero]

There seems to be a real macho problem on the right-wing. The second a conservative starts to break ranks(like McCain), their own pundits will use a sort of peer-pressure, making it seem as though they are "losing heart". What needs to happen is a bigger rebellion in the Republican party that can't be explained away by pundits* and their media machine. Otherwise they might as well just all march in lockstep.


*Another solution to the pundit problem is my proposal that involves putting them in a massive dome-like complex with an artificial battlefield littered with crude weapons- forcing them to battle to the death. Beheading Charles Krauthammer or Adam Corolla(not a pundit but he's still going to be in there) would allow the beheader to leave the dome early.

[Mycroft]

I happen to agree with Will's assessment. The Bush administration was over the top in pork spending and I think there should be term limits on congress.
So far, I only hear criticisms like this from conservatives. The "left" seems to want to rail on about supposed loss of constitutional freedom, abortion and the Iraq war.

Bingo! It's all Iraq all the time. When you try to talk about something that's not Iraq, they even try to tie it into Iraq somehow.

[Year Zero]

Bingo! It's all Iraq all the time. When you try to talk about something that's not Iraq, they even try to tie it into Iraq somehow.


You know since it's been a while since the US just invaded an conquered a country without pretense it might be a good idea to focus on Iraq for a while until we finally get some accountability for what has happened. That might be a bit more important than the fate of Terri Schiavo, steroid use in baseball, and even justice nominees.

When a president decides to embark on a Global War on Terror with no end in sight and no clearly defined or attainable objective(you can't even wage war on terror since "terror" is actually a tactic of insurgencies), and then he invades Iraq claiming that this is somehow part of that war on terror, it might be time to focus in on said president with laser-like precision and figure out just WTF is going on here.

[RandFan]

Bingo! It's all Iraq all the time. When you try to talk about something that's not Iraq, they even try to tie it into Iraq somehow.

You know since it's been a while since the US just invaded an conquered a country without pretense...blah blah blah :D Was that intentional Zero? Come on, did Mycroft pay you?

[Year Zero]

:D Was that intentional Zero? Come on, did Mycroft pay you?


Ok you do realize that the US invaded a country and killed an indeterminate number of civilians, destabilized a problematic region, and have seriously damaged the credibility of our nation right? You don't think that is a pressing issue? Do you realize that this is something of a serious problem?

America's place in the world is not protected by some divine providence; it is based on historical and human factors. Engaging in a poorly-defined, strategically impossible "Global War on Terror" is just the type of thing that can knock a superpower down a few pegs, from a first world country to second- and after that possibly a third.

[Mycroft]

:D Was that intentional Zero? Come on, did Mycroft pay you?

Zero is my sock-puppet. :D

[Beerina]

I do not particular like Will's viewpoint nor do I think he is particularly insiteful.

Pointing out that this completely Republican-controlled government is spending money faster than the Democrats before it (and pointing out how bad this is to the people is what helped get Republicans elected), and is spending more money per capita than ever before, except 1942, a year in which America was engaged in a 2-front world war, and building one major warship a week is not insightful?

[Beerina]

Ok you do realize that the US invaded a country and killed an indeterminate number of civilians, destabilized a problematic region, and have seriously damaged the credibility of our nation right? You don't think that is a pressing issue? Do you realize that this is something of a serious problem?

America's place in the world is not protected by some divine providence; it is based on historical and human factors. Engaging in a poorly-defined, strategically impossible "Global War on Terror" is just the type of thing that can knock a superpower down a few pegs,

So far so good, I'm listening.

from a first world country to second- and after that possibly a third.

Meh, you lost me. :rolleyes:

[Year Zero]

So far so good, I'm listening.



Meh, you lost me. :rolleyes:


You were not aware that a country's economic power can decline after a series of boneheaded mistakes involving billions of dollars, military conflict, and leadership?

[Mark]

Many of the "skeptical" liberals here have abandoned arguing with actual people and instead confront Steven Colberts parody of conservatism from Comedy Central's "The Colbert Report."

You must agree it's much easier than debating real ideas with real people.

Really? Who? And on what threads did they do this?

Or are you just being a typical conservative with this?

(I see DavidJames already asked this...Freakshow's defense of this comment was weak to say the very least.)

[Upchurch]

Mr. Will does not always criticize Republicans nor take sides with Democrats when it might be appropriate to do either. He has his agenda just like any other commentator. That he, er, will take on an issue doesn't mean he's always Mr. Fair-minded.
Perhaps not, but it does suggest that he is willing to be independantly minded.*



* again, my opinion is based on a very small sample size.

[RandFan]

Ok you do realize that the US invaded a country and killed an indeterminate number of civilians, destabilized a problematic region, and have seriously damaged the credibility of our nation right? Ok, you do realize that isn't the subject of the thread and that you are proving Mycroft's point?

Search this forum for my Nic and Iraq and I'm sure you'll find my opinion on the matter.

[hammegk]

Zero is my sock-puppet. :D
Wouldn't it be more effective if you provided it some blather partially attached to reality?

[aerocontrols]

You were not aware that a country's economic power can decline after a series of boneheaded mistakes involving billions of dollars, military conflict, and leadership?


I suspect that Beerina knows what first, second, and third world means, and you 'lost' her when you showed that you did not.

To suggest that the US will become a 'second world' country reveals a pretty profound ignorance of what 'second world' means.

[RandFan]

You know since it's been a while since the US just invaded an conquered a country without pretense... Do you mean pretext?

[pgwenthold]

I happen to agree with Will's assessment. The Bush administration was over the top in pork spending and I think there should be term limits on congress.


That seems silly. Instead, why doesn't the Bush adminstration just stop pork spending?

"Stop me before I kill again!"

We don't need stupid laws, we just need people with some ethics.

[Nyarlathotep]

We don't need stupid laws, we just need people with some ethics.

Which, unfortunately, you won't find in politics.

[Beerina]

Which, unfortunately, you won't find in politics.

Those with ethics are weeded out in politics via evolutionary pressures. Those who refuse to lie, cheat, and take bribes win fewer elections than those who are scumbaglicious.

The most I will grant, and this is a huge stretch, is that some self-delude that the ends justifies the means and their agenda is worth it to get elected. It's a huge stretch because I'm doubting very few, aside from a few wealthy scions with too much money and too little brains, actually believe the core of what comes out of their mouths. Rather, they get a kick out of the power and money and glory, and have learned to mouth the rallying cries needed to get elected. In other words, the Clintons were Democrats because they were in Arkansas. Had he been from a heavily Republican state, well, no.

I'm sure he's "one of the good guys who would always have been a Democrat". :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Keep tellin' yerself that.

[Year Zero]

Do you mean pretext?


Pretense can actually be used as a syononym for pretext. See: http://www.answers.com/topic/pretense

[RandFan]

Pretense can actually be used as a syononym for pretext. See: http://www.answers.com/topic/pretense Fair enough. Thank you.