Indigo Evolution -- The Next Great Woo

[Flaherty]

"Indigo" children is woo-speak for kids who need a good spanking. From today's NY Times:

AT a coffee shop in TriBeCa one morning two weeks ago, David Minh Wong, age 7, was in constant motion. He played with quarters on the table. He dropped them on the floor. He leaned on his mother and walked away.

"Indigo Evolution," a documentary, is to be shown widely on Jan. 27.
"Tell him I'm strong," he said to his mother, Yolanda Badillo, 50. She sat in a booth with a neighbor, who was there with her goddaughter.

"I woke up at 2:16 this morning, and it wasn't raining," he said.

"I'm getting bored," he said.

At David's public school, where he is in a program for gifted and talented second graders, a teacher told Ms. Badillo that he is arrogant for a boy his age, and teachers since preschool have described him as bright but sometimes disruptive. But Ms. Badillo, a homeopath and holistic health counselor, has her own assessment. To her David's traits - his intelligence, empathy and impatience - make him an "indigo" child.

"He told me when he was 6 months old that he was going to have trouble in school because they wouldn't know where to fit him," she said, adding that he told her this through his energy, not in words. "Our consciousness is changing, it's expanding, and the indigos are here to show us the way," Ms. Badillo said. "We were much more connected with the creator before, and we're trying to get back to that connection."

If you have not been in an alternative bookstore lately, it is possible that you have missed the news about indigo children. They represent "perhaps the most exciting, albeit odd, change in basic human nature that has ever been observed and documented," Lee Carroll and Jan Tober write in "The Indigo Children: The New Kids Have Arrived" (Hay House). The book has sold 250,000 copies since 1999 and has spawned a cottage industry of books about indigo children.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/12/fashion/thursdaystyles/12INDIGO.html?8dpc

[ranson]

I'm sure that the savage beatings at the hands of other children may eventualy temper David's "indigo" with more of a "bluish-green-yellow".

With luck, this will socially self-correct.

I was a little smart jerk too, but my parents fixed that fast enough.

[Hawk one]

And yet MdeC doesn't feel indigo is a proper color for Voltron?



(Note: This is an inside joke, OK?)

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

I wish I could understand why people need to feel that they have superpowers? Is life really that uninteresting to them?

"I'm not a bad parent, my child is just an overly evolved mind-reading super genius!"

[Bone_Vulture]

These smarmy New Age fads are getting more annoying than creationism and other old school acts of religious fundamentalism.

[Godmode]

I would think a parent's worse fear would be that their child was ill or brain damaged. But it seems like their worse fear is that their child is normal.

[Bone_Vulture]

I would think a parent's worse fear would be that their child was ill or brain damaged. But it seems like their worse fear is that their child is normal.

Aptly put. And lunacy like this:

"He told me when he was 6 months old that he was going to have trouble in school because they wouldn't know where to fit him," she said, adding that he told her this through his energy, not in words.

It's like a variation of the Munchausen syndrome by proxy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchausen_syndrome_by_proxy) The child is forced to become a part of their parent's fairytale fantasy, possibly damaging their psyche permanently when rational parenting methods are replaced with New Age hogwash.

[Whydoe]

Isn't school trouble enough for any kid? Now they need to watch out for the super geniouses? Used to just be the bullys when I was in grade school. Why is it when something is observed and documented it automatically becomes a fact - no matter who observed it? My kid smiled and even laughed at 2 months. I observed this and documented that he must be a super baby! Hey, it's documented!

[Whydoe]

Was While E. Coyote "ingido"? Oh, mystery indeed.

[Soapy Sam]

I think Greg Bear should take some of the blame for this nonsense.
He ought to know that if you write a book like "Darwin's Radio" a certain segment of the populace will believe it.

Likewise Dan Brown should be made to pay for the damage done by idiots tunneling under Roslyn Chapel looking for the wholly imaginary.

Maybe governments need to put health warnings on novels?
"This is fiction. Anyone confusing it with reality will be taken away by Albigensian Masonic Masters in Black UFOs. Your anus may be Probed!"

[Jon.]

Hmm. Is anyone else thinking Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Teatime of the Soul? Specifically:

(paraphrased) "Yes, Mrs. X, it is true that exceptionally gifted children are sometimes thought to be rather slow. Unfortunately, it is also true that rather slow children are thought to be rather slow. I think your son is one of the latter."

(If anyone has the book to hand, please feel free to correct!)

[Renee Rynn]

The word "Indigo" means "BLUE"

In ancient hindu religion, they worshipped the BLUE BOY
Even though this looks like a fabric of the imagination, there is a vein of long forgotten scientific memory of the workings between red and blue blood and the body. Whoever tried to teach or even may have taught the biology of the blood to ancient peoples, the teachings remain today in religions and mythical beliefs.
The human body contains BLUE BLOOD which is the LIVING BLOOD.
It is seen through the skin on the outside of the hands and neck and body as it travels through the veins around the body.
When the body is assulted and cut open, it lets out the LIVING BLUE BLOOD to flow onto the outside of the body. As the blue blood interacts with the oxygen in the air, it immediately turns into RED BLOOD. That red colored blood is the color of DEATH. There is a big difference in the two and ALWAYS, when you see red blood, you know that the body will die unless the red color is covered over and stopped.
The Hindu teacher who was dipicted with a blue aura around his body, was called the BLUE BOY and became a Deity because he sounded so smart to the listeners and in the same manner, Jesus tried to teach in his Authoritive Teachings and Sophia teachings about the difference between red and blue blood. Talking all the time about Heaven/the blue sky color and Earth/the red Lava. He said he had blue blood and so does every one, but the people not understanding, called him a prince and king because royalty was supposed to contain Blue Blood.
Likewise, the story about Indigo Children has caught on because it is supposed to create an aura of smartness and intellence that they think the general public havent got. When a child is disruptive, it is not because they are Indigo/Blue colored children, it is because they are disruptive children who have a parent that wants to push the child into recognition from others. When confronted with red colors, or when red colors are worn on the body, the body becomes restless, unable to concentrate and disruptive.
The mouth will scream, be rude and generally make a lot of noise.
When confronted with Blue colors and when blue colors are on the body, the body is still, quiet, intellegent, interested, refined.
It is impossible for a person or child that is Indigo or of a blue aura eminating from and on their body to be disruptive and noisy or rude.
Next time a baby is screaming, take away the red bottle from its mouth, take off the red clothes from its body and take away the red toys that are constantly given into its hands and the baby will stop crying and smile.
This is a proven fact.
So next time someone tries to say that they have Indigo children that are bored and restless and disruptive and forward, tell them thair child needs help and fast.
Renee

[Garrette]

Renee,

Very interesting, though mostly twaddle.

I will retract, though, if you present the proof of the "proven fact."

In essense, you are saying:


Veins are blue.

People bleed red.

Therefore Indigo Children are real and don't get mad.

[Hastur]

The human body contains BLUE BLOOD which is the LIVING BLOOD.
It is seen through the skin on the outside of the hands and neck and body as it travels through the veins around the body.
When the body is assulted and cut open, it lets out the LIVING BLUE BLOOD to flow onto the outside of the body. As the blue blood interacts with the oxygen in the air, it immediately turns into RED BLOOD. That red colored blood is the color of DEATH. There is a big difference in the two and ALWAYS, when you see red blood, you know that the body will die unless the red color is covered over and stopped.

:dl:
Superficial veins appear blue because of the low oxygen content of venus blood and the refraction of red light through human skin. I have given blood and if what you said is true, I should have seen blue in the tube leading to the bag. Nope, it was a deep maroon. Now, cut an artery and watch a much brighter shade of red spurt forth. Kinda damps your little theory above, huh?

[Metullus]

The word "Indigo" means "BLUE"

In ancient hindu religion, they worshipped the BLUE BOY
Even though this looks like a fabric of the imagination, there is a vein of long forgotten scientific memory of the workings between red and blue blood and the body. Whoever tried to teach or even may have taught the biology of the blood to ancient peoples, the teachings remain today in religions and mythical beliefs.
The human body contains BLUE BLOOD which is the LIVING BLOOD.
It is seen through the skin on the outside of the hands and neck and body as it travels through the veins around the body.
When the body is assulted and cut open, it lets out the LIVING BLUE BLOOD to flow onto the outside of the body. As the blue blood interacts with the oxygen in the air, it immediately turns into RED BLOOD. That red colored blood is the color of DEATH. There is a big difference in the two and ALWAYS, when you see red blood, you know that the body will die unless the red color is covered over and stopped.
The Hindu teacher who was dipicted with a blue aura around his body, was called the BLUE BOY and became a Deity because he sounded so smart to the listeners and in the same manner, Jesus tried to teach in his Authoritive Teachings and Sophia teachings about the difference between red and blue blood. Talking all the time about Heaven/the blue sky color and Earth/the red Lava. He said he had blue blood and so does every one, but the people not understanding, called him a prince and king because royalty was supposed to contain Blue Blood.
Likewise, the story about Indigo Children has caught on because it is supposed to create an aura of smartness and intellence that they think the general public havent got. When a child is disruptive, it is not because they are Indigo/Blue colored children, it is because they are disruptive children who have a parent that wants to push the child into recognition from others. When confronted with red colors, or when red colors are worn on the body, the body becomes restless, unable to concentrate and disruptive.
The mouth will scream, be rude and generally make a lot of noise.
When confronted with Blue colors and when blue colors are on the body, the body is still, quiet, intellegent, interested, refined.
It is impossible for a person or child that is Indigo or of a blue aura eminating from and on their body to be disruptive and noisy or rude.
Next time a baby is screaming, take away the red bottle from its mouth, take off the red clothes from its body and take away the red toys that are constantly given into its hands and the baby will stop crying and smile.
This is a proven fact.
So next time someone tries to say that they have Indigo children that are bored and restless and disruptive and forward, tell them thair child needs help and fast.
Renee

Huh? Evidence?

[The Whether Man]

Hmm. Is anyone else thinking Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Teatime of the Soul? Specifically:

(paraphrased) "Yes, Mrs. X, it is true that exceptionally gifted children are sometimes thought to be rather slow. Unfortunately, it is also true that rather slow children are thought to be rather slow. I think your son is one of the latter."

(If anyone has the book to hand, please feel free to correct!)

More or less, yeah.

OK, quoting from the book...

"Yes, it is true," he was saying, "that sometimes unusually intelligent and sensitive children can appear to be stupid. But, Mrs Benson, stupid children can sometimes appear to be stupid as well. I think that's something you might have to consider. I know it's very painful, yes. Good day, Mrs Benson."

(Mr Ralph Standish, Chief Consultant Psychologist and one of the directors of Woodshead Hospital.)

I do like that book, especially the scenes in the hospital.

[avhienda]

I think Greg Bear should take some of the blame for this nonsense.
He ought to know that if you write a book like "Darwin's Radio" a certain segment of the populace will believe it.

Likewise Dan Brown should be made to pay for the damage done by idiots tunneling under Roslyn Chapel looking for the wholly imaginary.

Maybe governments need to put health warnings on novels?
"This is fiction. Anyone confusing it with reality will be taken away by Albigensian Masonic Masters in Black UFOs. Your anus may be Probed!"

There's already a fiction disclaimer in books.

Taken from Robert Jordan's Knife of Dreams:
"This is a work of fiction. All characters and events portrayed in this novel are either fictitious or used fictitiously."

Wait, does that mean the One Power is real, just the stuff they do with it is fiction? Hmmmmm...

[AnotherSillyAlias]

The mouth will scream, be rude and generally make a lot of noise.
When confronted with Blue colors and when blue colors are on the body, the body is still, quiet, intellegent, interested, refined.
It is impossible for a person or child that is Indigo or of a blue aura eminating from and on their body to be disruptive and noisy or rude.
Next time a baby is screaming, take away the red bottle from its mouth, take off the red clothes from its body and take away the red toys that are constantly given into its hands and the baby will stop crying and smile.
This is a proven fact.



I thought, while reading this, that it was some sort of joke and I was waiting for the punchline ....


... but it never came.


Wow!

[PixyMisa]

The human body contains BLUE BLOOD which is the LIVING BLOOD.
Uh, no. If your blood is actually blue, you are almost certainly dead. Or possibly a lobster.

[Metullus]

Uh, no. If your blood is actually blue, you are almost certainly dead. Or possibly a lobster.
Or both. If there is a bowl of clarified butter next to you on the plate you can pretty much count on this last one.

[shecky]

Somebody get that kid some Ritalin.

[ysabella]

I like this thread. It's neat.

I'm bored now!

*fidgets*

[Ducky]

The word "Indigo" means "BLUE"

In ancient hindu religion, they worshipped the BLUE BOY
Even though this looks like a fabric of the imagination, there is a vein of long forgotten scientific memory of the workings between red and blue blood and the body. Whoever tried to teach or even may have taught the biology of the blood to ancient peoples, the teachings remain today in religions and mythical beliefs.
The human body contains BLUE BLOOD which is the LIVING BLOOD.
It is seen through the skin on the outside of the hands and neck and body as it travels through the veins around the body.
When the body is assulted and cut open, it lets out the LIVING BLUE BLOOD to flow onto the outside of the body. As the blue blood interacts with the oxygen in the air, it immediately turns into RED BLOOD. That red colored blood is the color of DEATH. There is a big difference in the two and ALWAYS, when you see red blood, you know that the body will die unless the red color is covered over and stopped.
The Hindu teacher who was dipicted with a blue aura around his body, was called the BLUE BOY and became a Deity because he sounded so smart to the listeners and in the same manner, Jesus tried to teach in his Authoritive Teachings and Sophia teachings about the difference between red and blue blood. Talking all the time about Heaven/the blue sky color and Earth/the red Lava. He said he had blue blood and so does every one, but the people not understanding, called him a prince and king because royalty was supposed to contain Blue Blood.
Likewise, the story about Indigo Children has caught on because it is supposed to create an aura of smartness and intellence that they think the general public havent got. When a child is disruptive, it is not because they are Indigo/Blue colored children, it is because they are disruptive children who have a parent that wants to push the child into recognition from others. When confronted with red colors, or when red colors are worn on the body, the body becomes restless, unable to concentrate and disruptive.
The mouth will scream, be rude and generally make a lot of noise.
When confronted with Blue colors and when blue colors are on the body, the body is still, quiet, intellegent, interested, refined.
It is impossible for a person or child that is Indigo or of a blue aura eminating from and on their body to be disruptive and noisy or rude.
Next time a baby is screaming, take away the red bottle from its mouth, take off the red clothes from its body and take away the red toys that are constantly given into its hands and the baby will stop crying and smile.
This is a proven fact.
So next time someone tries to say that they have Indigo children that are bored and restless and disruptive and forward, tell them thair child needs help and fast.
Renee



Please do not post drunk or stoned.

[PixyMisa]

Please do not post drunk or stoned.
Or lobster.

[Metullus]

Or lobster.
Exactly!

[HeyLeroy]

I like this thread. It's neat.

I'm bored now!

*fidgets*

:big:

Wanna go for a bike ride?

[money]

The word "Indigo" means "BLUE"
... snip...
When confronted with red colors, or when red colors are worn on the body, the body becomes restless, unable to concentrate and disruptive.



Hmm there might be something to this... I'm wearing a red pullover, and I had some trouble concentrating on her post. I'm telling you, my eyes kept jumping arounLOOK! A BUNNY!

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I like it when we work lobster into a thread.

~~ Paul

[Nex]

I like it when we work lobster into a thread. What about kitties?

[geni]

I think Greg Bear should take some of the blame for this nonsense.
He ought to know that if you write a book like "Darwin's Radio" a certain segment of the populace will believe it.


Indigo Children predate that book.

[Nex]

Indigo Children predate that book.Well, of course. They're old souls, after all.

[casebro]

Or lobster.

Au contraire. Feel free to post lobsters- pm me for my address.

[Jon.]

OK, quoting from the book...

"Yes, it is true," he was saying, "that sometimes unusually intelligent and sensitive children can appear to be stupid. But, Mrs Benson, stupid children can sometimes appear to be stupid as well. I think that's something you might have to consider. I know it's very painful, yes. Good day, Mrs Benson."

(Mr Ralph Standish, Chief Consultant Psychologist and one of the directors of Woodshead Hospital.)

I do like that book, especially the scenes in the hospital.

Thanks, WM!

[LordoftheLeftHand]

"At David's public school, where he is in a program for gifted and talented second graders, a teacher told Ms. Badillo that he is arrogant for a boy his age, and teachers since preschool have described him as bright but sometimes disruptive. But Ms. Badillo, a homeopath and holistic health counselor, has her own assessment. To her David's traits - his intelligence, empathy and impatience - make him an "indigo" child.

Wow, I was an Indio child! I knew I was born too soon. I could have had a perfect excuse for being a little bastard.

LLH

[LordoftheLeftHand]

The word "Indigo" means "BLUE"

Even though this looks like a fabric of the imagination, there is a vein of long forgotten scientific memory of the workings between red and blue blood and the body.

What is "scientific memory"?


The Hindu teacher who was dipicted with a blue aura around his body, was called the BLUE BOY and became a Deity because he sounded so smart to the listeners and in the same manner, Jesus tried to teach in his Authoritive Teachings and Sophia teachings about the difference between red and blue blood.

Book, chapter, and verse please.


When confronted with red colors, or when red colors are worn on the body, the body becomes restless, unable to concentrate and disruptive.
The mouth will scream, be rude and generally make a lot of noise.
When confronted with Blue colors and when blue colors are on the body, the body is still, quiet, intellegent, interested, refined.
It is impossible for a person or child that is Indigo or of a blue aura eminating from and on their body to be disruptive and noisy or rude.
Next time a baby is screaming, take away the red bottle from its mouth, take off the red clothes from its body and take away the red toys that are constantly given into its hands and the baby will stop crying and smile.
This is a proven fact.


This theory should be incredibly easy to test, and since you say it is a "proven fact" I'm sure you could drop us some links.

LLH

[Starrman]

Next time a baby is screaming, take away the red bottle from its mouth, take off the red clothes from its body and take away the red toys that are constantly given into its hands and the baby will stop crying and smile.
This is a proven fact.
So next time someone tries to say that they have Indigo children that are bored and restless and disruptive and forward, tell them thair child needs help and fast.
Renee

My kid had colic for 4 monhts - I would have LOVED to see you and your stupid theory spend one weekend alone with her, trying to take everything red away to see how it worked.

If it is a proven fact, you wouldn't mind telling us what the proof is, would you?

[phildonnia]

I have often wondered why veins appear blue, when it's obvious to anyone (with an advanced degree in hyperbolic topology) that it's dark red when you give blood.

For the record, my wife will typically stop crying when given a dead red lobster.

[AnotherSillyAlias]

I eagerly await the next chapter from Renee "Woo" Rynn.

Now that I have burned everything I own that is red, I'm wondering what other colours I should get rid of.

[AnotherSillyAlias]

Oh yes, Renee, another question if you don't mind. The Galah we rescued is 50% (approximately) pink. Is pink OK?

[eri]

Hmm. Is anyone else thinking Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Teatime of the Soul? Specifically:

(paraphrased) "Yes, Mrs. X, it is true that exceptionally gifted children are sometimes thought to be rather slow. Unfortunately, it is also true that rather slow children are thought to be rather slow. I think your son is one of the latter."

(If anyone has the book to hand, please feel free to correct!)

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking! Here it is :

Yes, it is true that sometimes unusually intelligent and sensitive children can appear to be stupid. But, Mrs. Benson, stupid children can sometimes appear to be stupid as well. I think that's something you might have to consider. I know it's very painful.

I love that book. There was a brief discussion of indigo children on here a few months ago, when CNN showed a story on them. I never got a response to my complain, btw.

[Ririon]

Next time a baby is screaming, take away the red bottle from its mouth, take off the red clothes from its body and take away the red toys that are constantly given into its hands and the baby will stop crying and smile.
This is a proven fact.
Renee

Reminds me of the Berkeley vs. Stanford Football pep rally. Anybody wearing anything even slightly red were bullied by the crowd into removing it. Fortunately there was a huge bonfire, so nobody was freezing. Once everything red was gone from sight, the mood of the crowd became perfectly extatic with pride and a sense of superiority, so there might be something to this... ;)

[casebro]

Soooo, barfights are not caused by liqour, but by drinking beer out of amber bottles! and all those red neon beer signs.....

[RichardR]

Good blog post on Indigo Children (http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2006/01/color_coded_bra.html). See the comments section - "Jake" doesn't seem to like the skeptical treatment.

[Bone_Vulture]

Good blog post on Indigo Children (http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2006/01/color_coded_bra.html). See the comments section - "Jake" doesn't seem to like the skeptical treatment.

Don't forget the link to Jake's blog! (http://dictionaryofdipshits.blogspot.com/2005/10/reasoning-behind-title.html) :D

[Lynx2174]

I don't get the part about them suppsedly being better able to handle the contaminants we've supposedly caused, and being better able to deal with the mess we've caused.

it seems to me like this is (on the average) the best time it's ever been to be alive; the averge lifespan is the highest it's ever been, institutionalized slavery has been wiped out while illegal slavery is a comparitivly combatable problem. there is less directly hazardous pollution then there has been for decades, though we make more CO2. we'll probably be able to deal with global warming though. there are only a few wars going on at a time, mabye one or two genocides. we don't lose that many millions of people to aids and the flu and malaria due to having at least some treatment in most places.

hmm, do they think that there are 4 times as many indigo children born in china alone? why don't we hear about prophetic, telepathic etc chinese? or do they think that adhd/being indigo only affects american children?

it's all just inane.

[Bone_Vulture]

hmm, do they think that there are 4 times as many indigo children born in china alone? why don't we hear about prophetic, telepathic etc chinese? or do they think that adhd/being indigo only affects american children?

Chinese people don't have souls, remember? ;)

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

Oh, wait... (coming from the Healthfraud listserv)... not only is there going to be an "Indigo" children movie, http://www.theindigoevolution.com/ ...

The next generation of "gifted" kids are crystal! Here it is:
http://www.thecrystalchildren.com/ ... I tried reading the first link, but I think she needs one of those kids to show her how to format a document.

I think I can see through the "crystal" crud.

[Bone_Vulture]

The next generation of "gifted" kids are crystal! Here it is:
http://www.thecrystalchildren.com/ ... I tried reading the first link, but I think she needs one of those kids to show her how to format a document.

From the site:

I first began noticing the Crystal Children during my travels around the
world, giving workshops about the angels. I noticed their eyes and magnetic personalities. I held mental conversations with the children, and could
clearly hear them answer my questions in mind. I would watch them smile in
response to my mentally sent compliments. These kids hear my thoughts! I realized.

Ok. How long 'til we've progressed to Children of the Corn? :rolleyes:

[Lynx2174]

why do woo people like crystals so much? just because they're shiny? because glass is shiny, but they don't use glass for anything. gold is valuable, but it's not used much either (but they dissolve it in water as soluble salts) and it isn't supposed to be mystical.

do any woo people consider obsidian as a mystical crystal thingy? because it's amphorus I think, because it's a glass, so it's not crystal at all.

it's probably the shinyness.

[Jeff Corey]

Crystal meth is shiny? That'll turn your ADHD Indigo Child into a superhero.

[Bone_Vulture]

Crystal meth is shiny? That'll turn your ADHD Indigo Child into a superhero.

Crack babies!

[Beerina]

Don't all you people mean Indigo?

This is the most fame Indigo has gotten since it was shoehorned into ROYGBV as the fraudulent I between B and V.

[Ceinwyn]

From the site:



Ok. How long 'til we've progressed to Children of the Corn? :rolleyes:Only He Who Walks Among The Rows knows. ;)

Oh yeah, this bit:

"Our consciousness is changing, it's expanding, and the indigos are here to show us the way," Ms. Badillo said. Looks like our future consists of children being really, really obnoxious.

[AnotherSillyAlias]

Looks like our future consists of children being really, really obnoxious.

I thought that was already here!

[Renee Rynn]

HI AnotherSillyAlias, Pink is a baby of red and affects the body in the same way that red does.
Pinky is stinky.

[Renee Rynn]

HI AnotherSillyAlias, Pink is a baby of red and affects the body in the same way that red does.
Pinky is stinky.

[Renee Rynn]

I have no idea why it posted twice, that must be paranormal in itself.

[drfrank]

I have no idea why it posted twice, that must be paranormal in itself.
Don't worry - it's well known and accepted that there's a mischievous spirit to blame for that one.

[AnotherSillyAlias]

HI AnotherSillyAlias, Pink is a baby of red and affects the body in the same way that red does.
Pinky is stinky.

...and your evidence would be .... ?