Multichoice questionnaires asking for religion

[Solus]

Nitpicky again today! Silly online dating sites usually do this I’ve noticed. The options given for religion are usually Atheist, agnostic, christain ect.. Obviously I don’t need to note what’s wrong with this picture. An atheist by definition does not believe in any religion. I just find it humorous that atheism is listed as a religion. I’m forced to answer “other” myself on multichoice questionare of religion. Devil is in the details. Too nitpicky on my days off I need to read a book and go outside! :)

[BJQ87]

idk if they're actually saying it's a religion...i think they might be just putting it on there since it relates well to the question, and they feel like they should probably have that option on there...or maybe they thought none wasn't specific enough and that if they put none then atheists might not have the same opportunity to express what they believe in to others before they try and hook up with them or whatever.

[Anti_Hypeman]

I did a quick study on dating site religious demographics last year

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=44581

[tkingdoll]

then atheists might not have the same opportunity to express what they believe in to others before they try and hook up with them or whatever.
The point of atheism is an absence of belief. As an atheist, I wouldn't ever be trying to 'express what I believe in' in this context, as I don't 'believe' in anything that belongs in a religion section of a questionnaire.

'None' is the sensible and accurate option. I refer you to the quote in this week's commentary about atheism being a religion in the same way that not collecting stamps is a hobby.

[Dr Adequate]

It's an opinion about religion, though, in the same way that not collecting stamps is a tacit comment on philately.

[tkingdoll]

It's an opinion about religion, though, in the same way that not collecting stamps is a tacit comment on philately.

Philately will get you everywhere...

The analogy would be tighter if there was a specific word for not collecting stamps.

If anyone cares to coin one...?

[cyborg]

Aphilately?

[tkingdoll]

Aphilately?

Too long.

How about...

..."cool"

[Jorghnassen]

Yeah, "none" should be the appropriate option. Though you wouldn't be able to differentiate agnostics from atheists from spiritual "but not religious" persons.

/I always check Catholic anyway, at least until the Pope excommunicates me...

[David Swidler]

FSM. It's all the FSM, invisible pink unicorns notwithstanding. Don't let anyone try to tell you otherwise.

[Iacchus]

Is abstinence considered a part of one's sexual orientation? Yes, atheism should be considered a religious "option" ... especially if you wish to know where a person stands on the matter of religion.

[Loon]

Dear Lord, please tell me what further horrors I am to face on this day when I agree with Iacchus.

[Mercutio]

I'd prefer a list of gods, and you can check off "believe" or "do not believe" for each of them. If you really want to know where they stand on religion.

[MLynn]

Is abstinence considered a part of one's sexual orientation? Yes, atheism should be considered a religious "option" ... especially if you wish to know where a person stands on the matter of religion.
I think it could be phrased in a better way, e.g., "No religious affiliation," although the term "Atheist" could indicate the same as "None of the above."

[JLam]

I know what the OP is getting at, but I think that the question is more along the lines of "Where do you stand on religion?" If you put "other", people are just going to think you're a weirdo, and the atheist you're looking for may overlook you based on your response.

Just pick "atheist" and be done with it, IMO.

[tkingdoll]

"None" isn't the same as "None of the above" or "other" though.

"None" is stating that you do not have a religion. If you put atheism in a list of religions, then firstly you are calling it a religion, which it's not, and secondly you are asking atheists to name it as their religion, which is silly.

[Loon]

"None" isn't the same as "None of the above" or "other" though.

"None" is stating that you do not have a religion. If you put atheism in a list of religions, then firstly you are calling it a religion, which it's not, and secondly you are asking atheists to name it as their religion, which is silly.

Then don't read the question as "What is your religion?" but rather "Which of the following describes your religious beliefs?"

Atheism may not be a religion, but it is an accurate description of the religious beliefs of an atheist, is it not?

[tkingdoll]

Then don't read the question as "What is your religion?" but rather "Which of the following describes your religious beliefs?"

Atheism may not be a religion, but it is an accurate description of the religious beliefs of an atheist, is it not?

No, it's a description of my lack of them.

[Loon]

OK. I'll bite. How would you phrase the question if you were building a dating site?

[tkingdoll]

OK. I'll bite. How would you phrase the question if you were building a dating site?

Hmm. There are several options I think.

Under the heading Religion, I would want to see:

A list of religions, plus the options 'none' (for atheists and agnostics), 'no preference' (for those who don't know/care), 'none of the above' (perhaps with a 'please specifiy' text box in case it's satanism or something).

If it was to be a list of religious philosophies, or attitudes towards religion (in which atheism would properly belong), it would have to be something like:

Atheist
Agnostic
Believer in single deity
Believer in multiple deities

etc

If the question is 'Religion?' then the atheists answer is 'none'. If you ask an atheist what their religion is, they will tell you they don't have one. They won't say 'my religion is atheism'.

But, to take you literally, If I were building a dating site, I wouldn't have a list at all, I'd have 'soft' personality questions like "is religion important to you?" and "do you believe in an afterlife?"

[Loon]

A list of religions, plus the options 'none' (for atheists and agnostics), 'no preference' (for those who don't know/care), 'none of the above' (perhaps with a 'please specifiy' text box in case it's satanism or something).

How many people would understand the difference between "none" and "no preference?" How many would just select both when doing their searches? I'm willing to bet a beer per question (more actually, since there's no way I can think of to test this- so bet heavily) that the answers are "not many" and "most if not all."

I'm not sure if I've seen "None of the Above," though I have seen "Other." But just as you, an atheist (right?) see a big distinction between "agnostic" and "atheist" and "no religion," plenty of people with religion see those as all the same thing, but wish there were more options for "Southern Baptist," "Old School Southern Baptist," "Whatever sub branch of subbranch." Unless you're running a site aimed at free-thinkers (or whatever you want to call a group that will mostly self-identify as agnostic or atheist), this approach is not likely to help.

If it was to be a list of religious philosophies, or attitudes towards religion (in which atheism would properly belong), it would have to be something like:

Atheist
Agnostic
Believer in single deity
Believer in multiple deities

etc

Again, unless you're buiding skeptidate.com, this approach is not so helpful. "Believer in single diety" encompasses all forms of Xianity (or at least, it can, depending on how you view the trinity thing), all forms of Islam, all forms of Judaism, Zoroastrianism and probably a bunch of smaller religions that don't fall under this rubric. This doesn't tend compatibility.

The multi-god option will get Hindus matched with wiccans and with assorted animist religions.

If the question is 'Religion?' then the atheists answer is 'none'. If you ask an atheist what their religion is, they will tell you they don't have one. They won't say 'my religion is atheism'.

But you might say "I'm an atheist." Match.com bundles the whole thing under "faith." Is that any better?

But, to take you literally, If I were building a dating site, I wouldn't have a list at all, I'd have 'soft' personality questions like "is religion important to you?" and "do you believe in an afterlife?"

Again, unless you are building a site for a skeptic-type market (and I suppose that's a fair answer to the question I asked- it just means I asked the question poorly), this is no good. For one, people are going to search on their overall religion (and then on importance, I think), not on issues of the afterlife or the divinity of Christ or biblical inerrancy. The details will come out later.

Remember that the goal of the site is not to provide perfect descriptions of people, but rather to get reasonable descriptions that include the quantifiable things most people ask about. The next step is taking all those quantifiable, searchable things and getting them searched.

Given that the thing has to be searchable and has to appeal to the general public (which in this case is made up mostly of people with at least a little bit of religion), how would you phrase the question so that it A) met your standards/needs for describing you accurately and B) met the needs of the general populace, for whom the different denominations of Xianity are of great importance and the issue of whether atheism is a religion is of little no importance?

[tkingdoll]

Given that the thing has to be searchable and has to appeal to the general public (which in this case is made up mostly of people with at least a little bit of religion), how would you phrase the question so that it A) met your standards/needs for describing you accurately and B) met the needs of the general populace, for whom the different denominations of Xianity are of great importance and the issue of whether atheism is a religion is of little no importance?

Ah, but the reason these lists try to be all-encompassing in the first place is because they want to cater to minorities and not the general populace. Otherwise the list would read 'Christian, Muslim, Other'.

The answer to your question would be the first option I listed. Whether or not the 'general populace' understands the difference between 'none' and 'no preference' is moot under your reasoning, because they are a tiny minority. I would argue that anyone declaring themselves atheist or agnostic has put enough thought into it to know the difference between not having a religion, and not having a preference, but to avoid potential misunderstandings, let's replace 'no preference' with 'don't know'.

So the list now stands as:

Religion:

[list of religions]
Other (please specify)_______
None
Don't know

[Solus]

Yes, the on the little freedating site I use. It lists Atheism as a religion. I think none should be allowed as option or let us specify our own. The best I could do in regards to religion on that site is pick OTHER & laughing about it. Kinda gives an idea of where I stand I think.

None needs to be allowed as option I think. Athiesm too if person believes that's a religion.

[Bri]

So the list now stands as:

Religion:

[list of religions]
Other (please specify)_______
None
Don't know

Some dating sites apparently have a category for "not religious" in addition to "atheist." Although neither "not religious" or "atheist" are actually religions (and the differences could be ambiguous), it seems fairly clear that they are trying to discern between those who simply don't care about the topic of religion and those to whom religion / lack of religion is important. Your list doesn't allow for a distinction, which would preclude some atheists from finding others with a similar lack of belief, if that was their goal. I guess you'd have to also add "Don't care" to your list to make it complete.

In addition, does "Don't know" cover agnostics (they often do know whether or not they have a religion, they just don't know if God exists) as opposed to strong atheists?

-Bri

[tkingdoll]

Some dating sites apparently have a category for "not religious" in addition to "atheist." Although neither "not religious" or "atheist" are actually religions (and the differences could be ambiguous), it seems fairly clear that they are trying to discern between those who simply don't care about the topic of religion and those to whom religion / lack of religion is important. Your list doesn't allow for a distinction, which would preclude some atheists from finding others with a similar lack of belief, if that was their goal. I guess you'd have to also add "Don't care" to your list to make it complete.

In addition, does "Don't know" cover agnostics (they often do know whether or not they have a religion, they just don't know if God exists) as opposed to strong atheists?

-Bri

Excellent points. Add 'em to the list!

This is gonna be one fantastic dating site.

[Bri]

Excellent points. Add 'em to the list!

This is gonna be one fantastic dating site.

You can't add agnostics to the list -- agnosticism isn't a religion! "Don't know" would indicate that you don't know what your religion is (rather than not knowing whether there is a god). You can't lump agnosticism and atheism together (what self-respecting strong atheist would want to date an agnostic?). How do you differentiate them without listing either?

How about if the category were changed to "belief in a god / gods" rather than "religion?" Could atheism then be listed?

-Bri

[tkingdoll]

You can't add agnostics to the list -- agnosticism isn't a religion! "Don't know" would indicate that you don't know what your religion is (rather than not knowing whether there is a god). You can't lump agnosticism and atheism together (what self-respecting strong atheist would want to date an agnostic?). How do you differentiate them without listing either?

-Bri

Oh, sorry, I was replying in a rush. I didn't mean to add 'agnostic', I meant to add 'not religious' and 'don't care'.

[Bri]

Oh, sorry, I was replying in a rush. I didn't mean to add 'agnostic', I meant to add 'not religious' and 'don't care'.

But "not religious" isn't a religion any more than atheism is. Furthermore, how would you distinguish between agnostic and atheist?

-Bri

[tkingdoll]

But "not religious" isn't a religion any more than atheism is. Furthermore, how would you distinguish between agnostic and atheist?

-Bri

No, but it clearly states it's not in its own description.

An agnostic would probably tick 'none', but that's up to them. In a list of religions, I would have no interest in distinguishing between an agnostic and an atheist anyway. Or are we getting into the 'Christian - Baptist', Christian - Methodist' sort of detail? How long is this list gonna get?

If there aren't enough options there to satisfy agnostics and atheists, then I can't please anyone. My list is better than the existing one mentioned in the OP, at least. It gives options for non-believers without resorting to labelling anything as a religion that clearly isn't one.

In retrospect, 'not religious' is the same as 'none'. Gosh, this list business is fun!

[Bri]

In a list of religions, I would have no interest in distinguishing between an agnostic and an atheist anyway.

Perhaps your comments make sense if these sites were more concerned with accuracy than with matching potential mates, but they're not, nor should they be.

How about changing the name of the category to "theological belief" or "belief in God?" Maybe that would solve the problem without eliminating what some might consider important distinctions for determining if a potantial mate has similar beliefs as you.

Or are we getting into the 'Christian - Baptist', Christian - Methodist' sort of detail? How long is this list gonna get?

Some do get into that sort of detail. Nonetheless, most people do distinguish between an agnostic and an atheist. I can see how a strong atheist might not want to date an agnostic, or vice versa. Many of the lists include both "atheist" and "agnostic" for that very reason, but your list would preclude this since neither are religions.

If there aren't enough options there to satisfy agnostics and atheists, then I can't please anyone.

Therein lies the problem, I'm guessing. Perhaps you're more picky about accuracy, whereas I would guess that if you were a lonely agnostic looking for the same, you might feel otherwise.

My list is better than the existing one mentioned in the OP, at least. It gives options for non-believers without resorting to labelling anything as a religion that clearly isn't one.

I suspect that changing the title would satisfy both concerns without resulting in ambiguity or defeating the purpose of the list.

In retrospect, 'not religious' is the same as 'none'. Gosh, this list business is fun!

Although "not religious" might technically include agnostics and atheists, most would consider it more of an "I don't care" whereas "none" is even more ambiguous and could mean agnostic, atheist, or "I don't care."

-Bri