RYAN WHISLER, Yo-Yo Dowser

[steenkh]

would it be possible to elminate the ideomotor movements by fixing mr. Whisler's hand somehow? If it is important for him to be in physical contact with the yo-yo, it might possible to strap his arm and hand so that no movement is possbible in the finger that is holding the yo-yo, and if mr. Whisler can accept this control, the test could proceed?

[ChristineR]

I don't think you can eliminate ideomotor with a brace. You can move the yo-yo simply by contracting and releasing the muscles. It would take some practice, but you should be able to learn to contract your muscles without actually moving your bones. I think you could do it with some sort of rigid glove-like device, but that seems pretty impractical.

[-42-]

You could have the yo-yo string tied off halfway down the string, then tie the top half of the string off again on another solid object, with the string limp, and finally, to his hand, where the string must stay limp yet again.

??


Hanging Yo-Yo -> Tied Solid Object -> Limp String -> Tied to a different solid object -> Limp String -> Hand


But really, probably not that hot of an idea to let him touch anything, when you're looking for movement.....

[webfusion]

This thread reminds me of a famous Rodney Dangerfield quote:

"I tell ya when I was a kid, all I knew was rejection. My yo-yo, it never came back."

[Flange Desire]

If he insists on having the yoyo attached ...
It is still feasible to clamp/bind the index finger to a rigid fixture.

Visualize index finger with yoyo string tied between 1st and 2nd joint.
Then bind the finger to the fixture at the 1st and 2nd joint points.

The finger will not be able to affect much.
'specially after gangrene sets in!

[Thing]

The alternative would be to let him hold it, but ask questions he can't know the answer to, such as "what is written on the card in this sealed envelope?". It's not clear (to me) whether he's just claiming that he can make a pendulum move without (he believes) doing anything, or that it can provide new information by answering questions.

[Blackwell]

The alternative would be to let him hold it, but ask questions he can't know the answer to, such as "what is written on the card in this sealed envelope?". It's not clear (to me) whether he's just claiming that he can make a pendulum move without (he believes) doing anything, or that it can provide new information by answering questions.

I think this is beyond what he claims he can do, and would add an unnecessary level of paranormality(?) to the test.

[-42-]

Probably doesn't matter much.

What would probably happen is he may try it himself, such as tieing it off on a fixed object and having a limp string on his finger and then he sees it doesn't move and then concludes it doesn't work that way, perhaps because of the vibrations of the thing the yo-yo is tied off on.

[delphi_ote]

Wow. He can make a Yo Yo move if he gives it a push. Amazing!

[Mongrel]

Wow. He can make a Yo Yo move if he gives it a push. Amazing!

Better yet, it's "Quantum"!!:eek:

[ChristineR]

Did anyone understand that last post?

[hellaeon]

yes he said it was 'quantum' in the challenge conversation with kramer.
Hails to the patience of Kramer. This guy is another nut.

[gtc]

I am reminded of a lady I saw on a street corner in chinatown selling quantum nano wash clothes. As she was spruiking in chinese I couldn't work out if it was a really cool brand name or woo.

[Ririon]

yes he said it was 'quantum' in the challenge conversation with kramer.
Hails to the patience of Kramer. This guy is another nut.
Giving it a little push takes the danger out of quantum mechanics...

That's not even wrong(tm).

[prewitt81]

It's "dangerous" to move a yo-yo without pushing it first? What sort of danger are we talking about?

Total protonic reversal?

I wonder if Randi is willing to take that risk. :)

[Zep]

Back up a step, folks. If the protocol for dowsing for this guy is anything like what has preceded it, it won't matter if he dangles the yoyo from his dick nose. Any ideomotor effect RELIES on pre-knowledge of the "target". Remove that pre-knowledge...bingo.

[webfusion]

http://people.interaction-ivrea.it/e.fried/dasein/images1/yo-yo-send.jpg

No NO! You have it all wrong. This test must be designed as this diagram shows.
There is not any other way.

[delphi_ote]

Back up a step, folks. If the protocol for dowsing for this guy is anything like what has preceded it, it won't matter if he dangles the yoyo from his dick nose. Any ideomotor effect RELIES on pre-knowledge of the "target". Remove that pre-knowledge...bingo.

Yes, but the claimant hasn't been exactly clear whether he wants to test his paranormal ability to move a yo yo, his paranormal ability to order the yo yo to do his bidding, or his paranormal ability to get information from the yo yo.

If he wants to test his ability to move the yo yo with his mind, starting the motion with his fingers first makes this a decidedly underwhelming feat.

[Mongrel]

Did anyone understand that last post?

It was a reference to the behaviour of people who don't even try to come up with a convincing explaination. Saying "It's Quantum" is a coded way of saying "I'm going to try and blind you with pseudo-scientific buzz words and cow cakes. In reality I have no idea what I'm talking about". Without any other references it's just a nonsense phrase.
I first saw this long before I knew of the existence of sites like this - check out 'Pyramids' by Terry Pratchett for more humorous examples ;)

[RobT]

I think there are times when it should be called idiotmotor reflexes, there are just some challange applications that leave me between crying and laughing.

[ChristineR]

It was a reference to the behaviour of people who don't even try to come up with a convincing explaination. Saying "It's Quantum" is a coded way of saying "I'm going to try and blind you with pseudo-scientific buzz words and cow cakes. In reality I have no idea what I'm talking about". Without any other references it's just a nonsense phrase.
I first saw this long before I knew of the existence of sites like this - check out 'Pyramids' by Terry Pratchett for more humorous examples ;)

Everything is quantum. It's just that when you get a bazillion molecules all together you can only measure the statistical averages with instruments. I'm sitting right here elevating my electrons to excited states. I can sense every one of them. I can even use my molecules to make a yo-yo swing!:)

[Anti_Hypeman]

Anybody want to guess what his verbal components are? I bet $5 on "MAGIC MISSLE"

[LordoftheLeftHand]

It's "dangerous" to move a yo-yo without pushing it first? What sort of danger are we talking about?

Total protonic reversal?

To do that you'd have to have 2 yo-yos and you would have to cross the strings.

LLH

[delphi_ote]

Anybody want to guess what his verbal components are? I bet $5 on "MAGIC MISSLE"

That might explain the danger he mentions in his claim...

[prewitt81]

To do that you'd have to have 2 yo-yos and you would have to cross the strings.

LLH


Glad somebody caught that. :)

[RSLancastr]

His starting the yo-yo going by pushing it with his fingers might be acceptable, if he claimed he could subsequently increase the movement with the "power of his mind" or whatever.

For example, if he nudged it with his finger so that it was swinging back and forth in say, a ten-degree arc, and then was able to mentally get it to start swinging in a thirty-degree arc, I'd say that was paranormal, and testable.

Of course, the yo-yo (and whatever it was tied to) would have to be protected from any influence by him blowing on it, or nudging the table it was on, etc.

[delphi_ote]

His starting the yo-yo going by pushing it with his fingers might be acceptable, if he claimed he could subsequently increase the movement with the "power of his mind" or whatever.

For example, if he nudged it with his finger so that it was swinging back and forth in say, a ten-degree arc, and then was able to mentally get it to start swinging in a thirty-degree arc, I'd say that was paranormal, and testable.

Of course, the yo-yo (and whatever it was tied to) would have to be protected from any influence by him blowing on it, or nudging the table it was on, etc.

Claimant: It moved!
Randi: No it didn't!
Claimant: Yea it did! See! There it goes again!
Randi: No. Look at the video.
Claimant: See? It's really moving! That thing is totally under my control.
Randi: Should I rewind the video?

And so on and so on...

[RSLancastr]

Claimant: It moved!
Randi: No it didn't!
Claimant: Yea it did! See! There it goes again!
Randi: No. Look at the video.
Claimant: See? It's really moving! That thing is totally under my control.
Randi: Should I rewind the video?

And so on and so on...You think this wouldn't be the case with the other tests Kramer mentioned to the guy? (Getting a North-South moving yo-yo to move East-West, getting one yo-yo out of five to move differently than the others)?

I still maintain that what I describe is testable.

[Zep]

They should fix the yoyo to a table and dangle HIM from the string! ;)

[delphi_ote]

You think this wouldn't be the case with the other tests Kramer mentioned to the guy? (Getting a North-South moving yo-yo to move East-West, getting one yo-yo out of five to move differently than the others)?

I still maintain that what I describe is testable.

It's absolutely testable. I just think it's better when the test has as few post-failure-cop-out loopholes as possible, so they're left with only skeptical anti-psi type excuses.

[Crispy Duck]

How 'bout this... the guy never gets to touch the yo-yo; it starts held at say 20 degrees off vertical, by an electro-magnet or similar, against a vertical plate. The yo-yo is released, by switching off the magnet, and starts swinging. Without paranormal effects, and all else being suitably controlled, the yo-yo will never have sufficient energy to hit the vertical plate - it will just swing through an ever-decreasing arc until it stops. If the guy can reliably make it hit the plate, he wins.

Just a thought... now, back to work :)

[petre]

How 'bout this... the guy never gets to touch the yo-yo; it starts held at say 20 degrees off vertical, by an electro-magnet or similar, against a vertical plate. The yo-yo is released, by switching off the magnet, and starts swinging. Without paranormal effects, and all else being suitably controlled, the yo-yo will never have sufficient energy to hit the vertical plate - it will just swing through an ever-decreasing arc until it stops. If the guy can reliably make it hit the plate, he wins.

Just a thought... now, back to work :)

It's "dangerous" for him to not touch the yo-you. We haven't figgured out what exactly the danger is, but my guess is that he'd be in danger of looking like an inept fool.

[Crispy Duck]

It's "dangerous" for him to not touch the yo-you. We haven't figgured out what exactly the danger is, but my guess is that he'd be in danger of looking like an inept fool.

I read that as meaning that it was dangerous for him to attempt to get the thing moving without touching it. In that case, and assuming that he's not a fraud, he'll be fine with any means of setting it swinging that won't cause him to have to use up too much of his super-powers. I guess he's worried that flames will come out of his ears or something, although he should get the million for that anyway :)

[ChristineR]

I read that as meaning that it was dangerous for him to attempt to get the thing moving without touching it. In that case, and assuming that he's not a fraud, he'll be fine with any means of setting it swinging that won't cause him to have to use up too much of his super-powers. I guess he's worried that flames will come out of his ears or something, although he should get the million for that anyway :)

It seems that he could set all five yo-yos swinging north-south by pulling the bar, and then use his power to get one of them to swing east-west. Or does he have to touch the yo-yos? Could he touch them before they are swung?

Alas, I think the guy is going to practice and realize it was ideomotor all along.:(

[LordoftheLeftHand]

Alas, I think the guy is going to practice and realize it was ideomotor all along.:(

Isn't that a good thing?

LLH

[ChristineR]

Isn't that a good thing?

LLH

Well, it isn't as fun.:rolleyes:

If he learns something and thanks Randi and urges his friends to think more critically, that's good. If he turns into one of these "I can only do it on rainy Wednesdays when I can touch the pendulum and Randi won't play fair with me!" whiners, then the world hasn't changed.

[The_Fire]

I'm not sure if this have been brought up before, but dangle the yoyo from a pencil suspended in a horizontal posisition. Have him touch the string of the yoyo with one finger where the string is tied to the pencil from above. This would prevent automotoric movements from interfering.

[ChristineR]

I'm not sure if this have been brought up before, but dangle the yoyo from a pencil suspended in a horizontal posisition. Have him touch the string of the yoyo with one finger where the string is tied to the pencil from above. This would prevent automotoric movements from interfering.

It would help with the automotoric movement, but it wouldn't keep him from cheating. He would be able to tug or roll the string, or to jar the pencil.

You could come up with a device that would do it, like a double pendulum as mentioned above. But maybe he has to physically start the yo-yo swinging to align his quantum energy with his fingers. (That sounds plausible!) Kramer is now proposing that swing the pendulum manually, and keep it swinging for 30 minutes. You could have a control pendulum nearby.

[Mendeli]

It seemed like interesting, untill this came.


According to Deja Allison D.D., P.h.d., telekinesis from her explanation is "quantum".


Accordingly, telekinesis from my explanation is "bollocks"


My psychic influence moves pendulums by perhaps, "spirit electrical force".


Or perhaps, "green fairy farts"

How about establishing that any kind of electrical force can influence regular yo yos or pendulums? Existence of spirits? Their relation to "electrical forces"?

Is he proposing to demonstrate a metallic pendulum movement with magnets? I don't think that would qualify as paranormal.

I mean come on! It's not even necessary to come up with such... explanations.

[YouBelieveWHAT?]

Hi Mendeli,

Are the "green fairy farts" quantum then? ;)

I think that so far Zep has come up with the best idea - if we can work out which one is the biggest Yoyo, of course!

YBW

[Crispy Duck]

Alas, I think the guy is going to practice and realize it was ideomotor all along.:(

Ref: The latest post... he's tested himself with two pendulums (pendula, I suppose), and found that he affects them both equally! I guess we'd all agree with him there.

It might be worth him knowing (does he read the forum?) about the weird effects one can get when multiple pendulums are attached to a non-rigid support... I remember seeing a demo where the different pendula swinging at different rates can cause one to (nearly) stop while the other increases its amplitude, only for the former to start and the latter to stop as the energy is transferred between the two.

A guy like Ryan could get mighty confused by such effects...

[Anti_Hypeman]

Who will finish practicing first this guy or the Ouija dude?

[petre]

Who will finish practicing first this guy or the Ouija dude?

I swung a pendulum to ask, and it pointed to "Ouija dude". For confirmation, I consulted my Ouija board, and it said "Pendulum guy". Man, I hate it when all my woo can't agree on something.

[drfrank]

I swung a pendulum to ask, and it pointed to "Ouija dude". For confirmation, I consulted my Ouija board, and it said "Pendulum guy". Man, I hate it when all my woo can't agree on something.

Your comment fired a random Futurama-related neurone and now I can't help but imagine a psychic soap-opera called "All My Woo" :D

[Mendeli]

I swung a pendulum to ask, and it pointed to "Ouija dude". For confirmation, I consulted my Ouija board, and it said "Pendulum guy". Man, I hate it when all my woo can't agree on something.


Well, you got better results than me then. I tried my pendulum and it stopped in the middle. I then tried my Ouija and it said "htrckwo" :confused:

Maybe I'm just not very good at this? :boggled:

[RobT]

you know maybe he can really do it, sorry I stroked out there for a minute. It wasn't clear to me if Mr Whisler is still holding them or has them clamped up somehow, also how, as was said the effect to two random pendula connected can come up with some strange conservation of momentum, if the frame allows them to interact.

[IXP]

His tone is interesting. There is a hint that he is surprised by what is happening in his tests. Could he be on the verge of an ephiphany? Kudos to Kramer.

IXP

[Admiral]

Nah- look at the Ouija guy: he's been testing for months, and he's still convinced that "the spirit is a very poor speller."

They enter the competition with a firm belief in their paranormal ability, even if they've never successfully tested themselves.

As another example, the perpetual motion guy on the forum has never experimentally proved Newton's laws wrong, nor does he know how they are wrong- he simply believes that they are wrong. Even though he is reasonable and willing to undergo tests, just like our Ouija fellow and Mr. Whistler, he refuses to accept failed tests and is confident he will eventually succeed.

[Admiral]

Nah- look at the Ouija guy: he's been testing for months, and he's still convinced that "the spirit is a very poor speller."

They enter the competition with a firm belief in their paranormal ability, even if they've never successfully tested themselves.

As another example, the perpetual motion guy on the forum has never experimentally proved Newton's laws wrong, nor does he know how they are wrong- he simply believes that they are wrong. Even though he is reasonable and willing to undergo tests, just like our Ouija fellow and Mr. Whistler, he refuses to accept failed tests and is confident he will eventually succeed.

[Ririon]

Potatoes! And that's the most sane part of the last email. :) I would have loved to see that video!

[petre]

It seems as though he really feels he's got something. No doubt he'll shortly send KRAMER those affidavits and he'll be on his way to setting up the preliminary test.

/Removes crimson glasses

[Mendeli]

I'd recommend setting up the test such that he can't use the potatoes as batteries.

That aside...

I figured it out last night by using the pendulums as "voltage meters" from Kinetic energy from myself. I based on a triangular energy theory where I imagined I was part of the design which results in movements by the pendulums as voltage meters which cause their kinetic movements.
So this would be telekinesis based on a kinetic energy theory.


Is this the kind of Telekinesis, where you give the pendulums more "Kinetic energy" by pushing them every time they come back at you? I have to say WOW!

[Grounded]

What he wrote:
But I want to give you the evidence you need and this is only a grain of my knowledge.

What I read: "But I want to give you the evidence you need and my knowledge is only a grain":rolleyes:

[batman]

I would be happy to let anyone see the 4 videos I made of 2 or 3 potatoes of same weight or size hung at 10 inches apart swinging in paranormal motion.
They are video files made by Windows ME edition Movie Maker which can be viewed with Windows media Player. I can attach it to email I know. I not sure about this site, but if anyone has a suggestion on a site these can be sent to for anyone to view, please let me know.
I can make anything hanging on a string attached to my fingers swing in a circle or other directions very fast and up high which should rule out physical influences described on this site. I can swing things attached to a stick I'm holding as well.
Getting rid of disbelief was the tricky part. I can answer questions with a pendulum as well or make somewhat kind of predictions. If you have a question for me to answer which is "very pacific", there's a good chance I can give a accurate answer.
I have many answers from my studies in anthropology and archaelogical digs of items pre-biblical which have answers to many questions. My hope is to reveal the truth to people.
Below is a stone from 9,000-10,000 years of age with Map Dowsing methods noted which matches up with the next photo of modern day Map Dowsing. Pictures can be enlarged by clicking on the photos.

[Mojo]

I can make anything hanging on a string attached to my fingers swing in a circle or other directions very fast and up high which should rule out physical influences described on this site. I can swing things attached to a stick I'm holding as well.I can make things I'm holding move too.

[batman]

Here's a photo of an ancient majic rod I found coming out of the ground as well. Made of rare crystals on the head and layered iron.

[Ririon]

Here's a photo of an ancient majic rod I found coming out of the ground as well. Made of rare crystals on the head and layered iron.
Are you Ryan Whisler, or are you just making fun of the poor guy?

[batman]

Potatoes! And that's the most sane part of the last email. :) I would have loved to see that video!
Send me your e-mail address to superman_98531@yahoo.com. I'll attach some media player footage. ryan

[Mojo]

If you have a question for me to answer which is "very pacific", there's a good chance I can give a accurate answer. OK:

What is the world's biggest ocean?

[Ririon]

Send me your e-mail address to superman_98531@yahoo.com. I'll attach some media player footage. ryan
Thanks, but I'll wait patiently until you upload it somewhere. Don't want to put too much strain on your net connection... ;)

Here, maybe? http://video.google.com/

[batman]

I'll go ahead and try that one on google now. Some footage can be long and boring, but it's there. Thanks

[batman]

Name all the oceans as answer options and I'll get back to you.

[Mercifull]

Dont answer a question with another question.

[Ririon]

Another question: What is "triangular energy theory"? A cynic might suggest that it is a simplified form of "pyramid power", but I'd like to hear the thoughts of the guy with the superpowers and the superhero comic book collection. :)

[batman]

It's a short way of describing the attachment photo I'm placing here. The Voltage Meter is what I believe make the pendelum move if I imagine myself as part of the equastion. It's about creating kinetic energy from almost none. Your body has positive and negative forces. Your physical material and Water, Yin and Yang, Good and Evil, day and night. All positive and negative flow in my belief. A long explanation can be found by looking up the kinetic_antiferromagnetism.pdf file on a search.

[Ririon]

It's a short way of describing the attachment photo I'm placing here. The Voltage Meter is what I believe make the pendelum move if I imagine myself as part of the equastion. It's about creating kinetic energy from almost none. Your body has positive and negative forces. Your physical material and Water, Yin and Yang, Good and Evil, day and night. All positive and negative flow in my belief. A long explanation can be found by looking up the kinetic_antiferromagnetism.pdf file on a search.
OK...

A voltage meter drawn on a piece of paper...

Makes a potato move...

If you imagine that a person is in an equation...

So you can create energy...

I'm afraid that is "NOT EVEN WRONG". How can you not be aware that this makes no sense whatsoever?

[Ririon]

And this: http://physics.ucsc.edu/~sriram/papers_all/kinetic_antiferromagnetism.pdf of course has nothing to do with any of it. :confused:

[delphi_ote]

I would be happy to let anyone see the 4 videos I made of 2 or 3 potatoes of same weight or size hung at 10 inches apart swinging in paranormal motion.

http://www.holycow.com/pics/po_tay_toes.gif?

[batman]

no no no. Very hard to explain. The paper is information which helps me figure out why I can do this. Complicated!! It will take time for movie uploads on google. Send me your email and I'll attach a small video for you.

[Gr8wight]

I would be happy to let anyone see the 4 videos I made of 2 or 3 potatoes of same weight or size hung at 10 inches apart swinging in paranormal motion.
They are video files made by Windows ME edition Movie Maker which can be viewed with Windows media Player. I can attach it to email I know. I not sure about this site, but if anyone has a suggestion on a site these can be sent to for anyone to view, please let me know.
I can make anything hanging on a string attached to my fingers swing in a circle or other directions very fast and up high which should rule out physical influences described on this site. I can swing things attached to a stick I'm holding as well.
Getting rid of disbelief was the tricky part. I can answer questions with a pendulum as well or make somewhat kind of predictions. If you have a question for me to answer which is "very pacific", there's a good chance I can give a accurate answer.
I have many answers from my studies in anthropology and archaelogical digs of items pre-biblical which have answers to many questions. My hope is to reveal the truth to people.
Below is a stone from 9,000-10,000 years of age with Map Dowsing methods noted which matches up with the next photo of modern day Map Dowsing. Pictures can be enlarged by clicking on the photos.

Ryan,

If you send them to me, I will host them for you, and post a link to them here. Send me a Private Message and I will give you my e-mail address.

[TjW]

You're an obsolete op-amp?

[batman]

Thanks GR. It's on the way.

[batman]

OK:

What is the world's biggest ocean?
I say the Pacific.

[Mojo]

Well, you asked for questions that were "very pacific".

[Ririon]

no no no. Very hard to explain. The paper is information which helps me figure out why I can do this. Complicated!! ...
Yes yes yes. It is hard to explain. Even if you ARE a physicist. The paper has no information which can help you figure out why you think you can do what you do. Simple.

If you think the paper has anything to do with dangling potatoes on a string, let me assure you:
:notm

[SpaceFluffer]

http://www.holycow.com/pics/po_tay_toes.gif?
Damn, that's freaky. I can hear his voice in my head when I look at that. Get outta there Samwise!

[Admiral]

Ryan, you're a very reasonable applicant. However, your theories on triangle energy don't mean very much to us. The video, however, could be meaningful, if it were actually posted anywhere.

Please understand that there is nothing paranormal in the pendulum moving while you are holding it. Nor is there anything paranormal in bizzarre movements of the two pendulums when they are attached to the same stand- the swinging pendulums affect each other by causing the support stand to swing.

Now, if the pendulums were on different stands, and you had the ability to cause one to change its period or direction, this would be paranormal. Also, causing the pendulum to start swinging without touching it is paranormal.

Let me note that causing lights to flicker and the ground to shake is a paranormal claim- why not focus on that, if it's not imaginary? Has anyone else observed this phenomenon?

Again, you're a very reasonable applicant. Good luck finding affadavits- if anyone here lives in Washington, you could try requesting that they help you with a test.

[batman]

GR8with above has the videos and said he'd take care of that over the weekend. Let me know if any problems GR. Thanks.

[webfusion]

superman/batman -- I am instantly reminded of the famous case here regarding Michael Anda. He spent a tremendous amount of effort and time posting on these boards, promising all kinds of results and tests to be conducted on his own. We never saw any of it, because he found it more fascinating to post and engage the JREF forum members in all sorts of dialogue, and NOT actually do a demonstration of what he claimed.

I hope that you don't go down that same path, Ryan.

Get your affidavits together: That should be your primary focus of attention at this point in time. Nothing else should divert you from this critical task. Not videos, not diagrams, not theories, not even posting here... fun as it is!

One Million Dollars awaits you, and until you obtain three notarized documents stating that you have demonstrated an effect that is outwardly unexplainable, then you are very far away from gaining an opportunity to proceed further towards the prize.

Oh, by the way, it isn't a brilliant idea to try enlisting forum members for your affidavits. In the previous case of JAK Keeran, he asked if it was OK to obtain help for his tests by soliciting the forum members, and the JREF & Randi specifically said no. Go with the basic way that Kramer suggests --- get three local professionals and have them sign the papers.

Signed, notarized papers. That needs to be your only mantra, (morning, noon and night) until you have them in hand.

[Flange Desire]

Yes, it won't be long now!
US$1 million should provide you with plenty of motivation to get on with it.

[YouBelieveWHAT?]

Mojo,

:)

Before posting please remember that many of us are working in open-plan offices where bouts of laughter may offend!

Still - you got my day started better than normal!!

Thanks!

YBW

[Gr8wight]

http://members.aol.com/plittle/ryan1.wmv

http://members.aol.com/plittle/ryan2.wmv

http://members.aol.com/plittle/ryan3.wmv

http://members.aol.com/plittle/ryan4.wmv

My only comment upon initial viewing, Ryan, is that the ends of the rod holding the pendulums are out of view of the camera. This will not do.

[sf108]

Pointless demonstration.

When you wave your hands in a circular motion, the potatoes are already moving in a circular motion. And when you show the palm for it to stop, it is already slowing down.

What is the point of that?

The whole purpose is to show that you can control one potato, while the others are doing something entirely different ie. make one patatoe stop immediately, while the two others are still swinging.

Please try the below:
1. Attach 3 potatoes hanging from a solid piece of furniture eg. the sides of a wooden table.
2. Start swinging them all at once using that wooden stick you've used.
3. Make the middle one stop "immediately" after 10 seconds of swinging.
4. Record all on video so we can analyse.

And hopefully you're on your way to the Million dollar prize.

[Anti_Hypeman]

Holy crap Im impressed!

[029]

This would be somewhat impressive if the rod holding the pendulums would be in full view.
And also if you would perform some more obvious moves with a potato.

A sceptic watching this might just say that you are following the movements of a potato.. ;)

[rjh01]

I am not impressed. I am sure I could do all this at home myself.

I did not see any start moving without being hit first.

[Mendeli]

I wouldn't bet there was anything paranormal going on here but I sure can't explain what's happening in that first video.

Even if this would not be worth the $million price, I'm pretty sure you could make some money out of this by presenting your potatoes on stage in some tv show, restaurant or similar. I know I've seen weirder things as a magic career.

[Anti_Hypeman]

Give the guy a chance I think this is the real thing! Did you see that tater swing? Mr. Randi get ready for your intellectual butt kicking!

Its not like he pushed them with a stick or anything I am watching it again right now ....... oh nevermind.

[Anti_Hypeman]

You need a control sample. Do the same thing and just let them swing without usuing your level 9 tater spell. If they swing and stop every time without exhibiting any erratic movement then you may have something.

If you can walk the dog with a tater on a string you might have a future with the Smothers brothers.

[ClusterBoy]

I am very worried about the dog effects on this experiment. i am concerned it may be the dog controlling it, and not ryan. can we please see a video without the dog (although it is very cute, i am concerned with eliminating all possible sources of cheating, and a paranormal dog is one of those)

[TimmyBerry]

Think that he could use a cat instead? Or something with fewer brain cells, like a lizard?

[batman]

Critical, critical. The ends of the broomstick rod are set on top of two identical chairs on each end. I'm doing the best I can. Right now I'm trying to survive. Hope to get back soon. I'm homeless right now being a family outcast over being who I am.

[timokay]

Critical, critical. The ends of the broomstick rod are set on top of two identical chairs on each end. I'm doing the best I can. Right now I'm trying to survive. Hope to get back soon. I'm homeless right now being a family outcast over being who I am.

Dangit, this is where it gets sad.

Look friend, clearly you are going through emotional problems.
Stop and consider if believing you have special powers is just a reaction to your current family turmoil, not the other way around.

Try and find someone to talk to and work through this.

You do not have any special powers, but you still have worth as a person.
Find some help.

[YouBelieveWHAT?]

For what it's worth I'd like to echo timokay's words.

Nicely put, timokay.

YBW

[rjh01]

I too, strongly agree with the above two posts.

[hellaeon]

It seemed like interesting, untill this came.



Accordingly, telekinesis from my explanation is "bollocks"



Or perhaps, "green fairy farts"

How about establishing that any kind of electrical force can influence regular yo yos or pendulums? Existence of spirits? Their relation to "electrical forces"?

Is he proposing to demonstrate a metallic pendulum movement with magnets? I don't think that would qualify as paranormal.

I mean come on! It's not even necessary to come up with such... explanations.

hahahaha gold

[delphi_ote]

Critical, critical. The ends of the broomstick rod are set on top of two identical chairs on each end. I'm doing the best I can. Right now I'm trying to survive. Hope to get back soon. I'm homeless right now being a family outcast over being who I am.

Homeless and trying to survive, yet making posts on the internet. I'm skeptical.

[Jekyll]

Posts with potatoes no less...

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/taters

(animated and long)

[Anti_Hypeman]

Why dont you sell that ancient magic rod and buy a condo. Take it to the antiques roadshow and see what its worth. You can part with a few of your pre-biblical artifacts to get off the streets.

[batman]

At the library here, I see that no matter what I do, you'll still go on with disbelief. Don't worry you will someday see what I'm saying and showing you is quite true. Even in the stories of Christ, people never believed the miracles he performed before them. So, I expect to be stoned to death by many. I'm sure that I'll get much more as time goes on. What I've told and shown you is nothing, there's much more going on than you know. I only said the last post because I no longer have the means and the computer equip. for more video footage, but I'll find a way to let you see the truth whether you believe or not.
May the force be with you.

[batman]

As Webfusion was saying, is there anyone who would be willing to work with me on getting these signed affidavitt's anywhere in the Washington State area. I'm selling some of my artifacts next week for the budget. Thanks

[SpaceFluffer]

Truly, we live in an amazing era when internet connectivity can be delivered to even the highest horses.

[petre]

As Webfusion was saying, is there anyone who would be willing to work with me on getting these signed affidavitt's anywhere in the Washington State area. I'm selling some of my artifacts next week for the budget. Thanks

If you haven't been following the other threads, KRAMER has recently parted from the JREF, so there may be a bit of slow reponse from them until a suitable replacement has been found. I'm just advising that you may not want to commit yourself to needing to take the test very soon.

That said, I'd also suggest seeking out critical-thinking professionals that might be local to you. The default recomendation is usually a doctor, since most (or at least many) folks have one. If not, you can always look one up.

Many applicants fear rejection in discussing or revealing their powers to strangers like that. An approach I've suggested in the past would be to explain that you've considered the situation rationally, and want outside confirmation that another person sees the effects the same way that you do. Approaching someone neutrally like this can be of great benefit, especially if you let them know you will value their input and not insist they see things your way from the start.

[webfusion]

webfusion posted: Oh, by the way, it is NOT a brilliant idea to try enlisting forum members for your affidavits. In the previous case of JAK Keeran, he asked if it was OK to obtain help for his tests by soliciting the forum members, and the JREF & Randi specifically said NO.

batman then says:
"As Webfusion was saying, is there anyone who would be willing to work with me on getting these signed affidavitt's anywhere in the Washington State area."

Uh, webfusion (me) was saying that you need to deal with that on your own, buddy. You should not be making such a request here. It is inappropriate.

AS for the 'budget' -- I happen to know where you can make a few thousand $$$ really easy and quickly.
http://www.stopbuyinggasoline.com/page/page/2673916.htm

{{{{{ If nothing else, it might present a new way for you to apply for the JREF Million Dollar Challenge, just to to prove that this device even works! }}}}}}

[hellaeon]

Batman

I have said it to people before and again

Goto your local newspaper or TV current affairs show and show them, they will enlist a few people to see it and it will be on TV and you will be famous and people will flock to you and pay you money to use your powers on them.

Not to mention the noble prize nomination. $$$!!!

Why waste time with a bunch of critical thinkers who need to see conclusive scientific proof from a proper double blind scientific test???

[rjh01]

...And you never know you might get as good as Sylvia Browne is. She makes heaps of money by not trying to win the $1m prize.

[batman]

Thanks for the ideas. I don't know why the JREF would wan't to cruise through the bermuda triangle when they can come to my hometown who's triangular fault line is connected to the bermuda triangle.

[rjh01]

Batman, you have a great sense of humour.

[batman]

Really, My hometown is and people really do get stuck here or come back. It's so weird. I'll be working on those affidavits. I'm just trying to get through school and the problems that happen when you live in an area gone foul. I took several taser shots and batons from crooked cops recently after finding some guys at a crappy bar who robbed my studant aid funds at gunpoint. I almost laughed and told the cops "is that all you got?" when they were electricuting me. My family loved the fake story in the newspaper these storm troopers wrote about me in the paper to cover their %$#. I'll be getting those affidavits soon as possible and get revenge.

[sf108]

Really, My hometown is blah blah blah.

Yep sure. Can't wait.

[webfusion]

And people wonder why Randi prefers JREF Forum Members don't get involved with applicants?

Personal safety and peace of mind, mostly.

[Harlequin]

Really, My hometown is and people really do get stuck here or come back. It's so weird.
Sorry, I came back to view the wreckage and couldn't get over this part.
Everyone knows that normally people get stuck halfway out of most towns and don't end up leaving or staying!

[batman]

I'm still on the way to those affidavits. I'm meeting with a Law Man in Seattle on Affidavit #1. I've been in the wilderness drinking beer and doing some discovering. I found through my archaelogicol work that it is very possible that my hometown Centralia was once inhabited by Mayan Travelers. I found a hidden cave with goes about 300 ft. underground. Haven't been down it yet, but will soon as must get prepared. They sure left many scientific answers behind on stone. The picture of the stone above and diagrams are the layout of this towns water and land. It was designed for conductioning electricity, creating new life and sending the dead to their purpose from my discovery. I've done some tests and find that polluted water is not good for the soul. I'll be back soon.

[Spidey13]

The Batcave!

[Mendeli]

I've done some tests and find that polluted water is not good for the soul. I'll be back soon.

What do you mean by soul? Why specify soul instead of just saying "not good for you"?

What specific effects does this water have on your... soul? Anyways, it would probably be a good idea not to drink it again.

[strathmeyer]

I'm still on the way to those affidavits. I'm meeting with a Law Man in Seattle on Affidavit #1. I've been in the wilderness drinking beer and doing some discovering. I found through my archaelogicol work that it is very possible that my hometown Centralia was once inhabited by Mayan Travelers. I found a hidden cave with goes about 300 ft. underground. Haven't been down it yet, but will soon as must get prepared. They sure left many scientific answers behind on stone. The picture of the stone above and diagrams are the layout of this towns water and land. It was designed for conductioning electricity, creating new life and sending the dead to their purpose from my discovery. I've done some tests and find that polluted water is not good for the soul. I'll be back soon.

Wow, this is amazing! What news outlets are covering this amazing discovery? What reasearchers are going to study it? I'm sure plenty of people would be willing to donate money to researching a find of such magnitude. How much money do you expect to make from your find?

[Spidey13]

And is there a really big penny in there?

[TjW]

(snippage)
I found a hidden cave with goes about 300 ft. underground. Haven't been down it yet, but will soon as must get prepared.

So, if you haven't been down it yet, how do you know it's 300 feet deep?

[Ririon]

So, if you haven't been down it yet, how do you know it's 300 feet deep?
DUH! Ask any potato... ;)

[Admiral]

DUH! Ask any potato... ;)

:confused:

[batman]

I'm going to likely write to the Department of Archaeology and Historic Preservation here shorlty. They have the authority to put a stop to industrial developments which destroy areas which need further study. I was once involved in industrieal management in L.A. and know too well that developers are rapidly looking to put this State to waste for money with corrupted means of politics. Which is happening already.
It's easy for any large corporation to fool a small town City Counsel ran by "Mom and Pop" shop owners into thinking that they are here to create Large Industries or "Industrial Parks" which destroy land to create "jobs" when in fact 80% or more of the work force is made up of illegal immigrate slaves.
When I discover land and water systems being designed by ancients for possibly creating life, energy, and sending the dead to their purpose, I figure it would be best to help prevent it's destruction. The Ice Age ended only 15 minutes away from where I stand today. I have much proof of what I preach and can find more with my potatoe or Yo-Yo's.
I also believe that it's possible that Thailand had it's Tsnaumi because of life creating land and water designs were destroyed by developers puting a Mickey Dee's where it doesn't belong.
I'll be checking out the fortress of solitude/Batcave here soon for my own good.

[Admiral]

Batman, make sure you know what you're doing before you go exploring in any caves! Spelunking is a dangerous hobby- you should go to a sports goods store and learn what equipment you'll need. You'll probably also want to get advice from experts- take a look around online.

[Flange Desire]

I'm still on the way to those affidavits. I'm meeting with a Law Man in Seattle on Affidavit #1. I've been in the wilderness drinking beer and doing some discovering.
Concentrate on the affidavits.
Don't get distracted from the JREF challenge.
You will gain more money, kudos and Nobel Prizes from proving the existstance of paranormal powers than from any batcave explorations.

[petre]

Not to mention, having a $Million would help in preserving important landmarks from development.

[Mendeli]

And just think how many potatoes you could buy with a million dollars!

Anyways, I would like to try this yo yo thing of yours. Would you like to give me any instructions on how to reproduce your results?

1) What do I have to do to successfully yo yo dowse?

2) Is it better to use regular yo yos, pendulums or potatoes?

3) Which brand of them?

4) How do I get "quantum" to work with the potatoes?

5) How do I contact the spirits to harness the spirit electrical force?

I tried to get these answers again with a pendulum (modified those questions a bit to get something where one could answer "yes" or "no") but it stopped between "yes" and "no" each time no matter what I asked or seemed to go on almost forever not deciding where to stop.

I also asked those exact questions from an Ouija board and got the following answers:

1) TUHFRWT
2) CARTSHGF
3) YIOP
4) ITRLBOFRTE
5) HRTSFRU

Maybe my methods were wrong? Maybe those are anagrams? edit: the only reasonable answer, I think, is the one given by pendulum essentially saying it doesn't even matter if I use pendulums, yo yos or potatoes, and that might kind of make sense.

I'd appreciate if you could give me better answers since I can't decide how to interpret these other results I got.

[Tirdun]

In comic book canon, the giant penny is from a generic bad guy named "Penny Plunderer". The long lived cartoon series introduced it in an episode along with Two-face.

I suspect its popular with fans because it's distinctive and seems like something a superhero with Batman's history would wind up with cluttering up his basement. Plus it's always in shot. Probably because it's relatively easy to draw that fills up a lot of background whitespace, so comic artists would love it.

[Penny]

And is there a really big penny in there?
I'm not that big :(

[Admiral]

I'm not that big :(

This has to be the best first post I've ever seen.

[delphi_ote]

This has to be the best first post I've ever seen.
Indeed, but it makes me very curious. Just how is she posting here if she's down in the cave?

[Penny]

Indeed, but it makes me very curious. Just how is she posting here if she's down in the cave?
Come on, even the most basic caves these days have wireless Internet access.

[YouBelieveWHAT?]

Wow!

The Mayans had wireless Internet!

It's amazing what you can learn here!

Oh - Welcome to the madhouse, Penny!

YBW

[Mendeli]

So have you ever played in the Penny Arcade? (http://www.penny-arcade.com/)

Anyways, welcome!

[YouBelieveWHAT?]

And isn't there a saying about bad pennies turning up?

Not that I'm suggesting, etc, etc. :)

YBW

[batman]

Thanks for the advice. I'll get to answering the other's questions here by Tues. Mendeli, for now before I analyze your work, keep in mind, everything has two sides. Postive and Negative, black and white, Yin and Yang, Good and Evil, Right side Left side, and ect. Your body has electrical currents. Don't think positive or negative and control your feelings. Things work in a circle. What I do is imagine a circle constantly moving clockwise. Make your pendelum move circular and concentrate on the moving circle to get wider. The next day after sleep it becomes easier. And get rid of disbelief which is most difficult part. I'll be back.
I read in a witcraft book two weeks or so ago that counter clockwise motion means "with sith". Anybody know about that?

[batman]

I'm not sure If a big penny exists down there. I wish I had the comics on that villan. I have one huge comic collection. I should definately take the Admirals advice. A water vein is presently doing some of the work for me opening up the hole leading downward. Listening the hole, it sounds like putting a sea shell to your ear. Just have to enlarge the clay hole opening.

[delphi_ote]

I read in a witcraft book two weeks or so ago that counter clockwise motion means "with sith". Anybody know about that?
Ask this guy:
http://www.sharizal.net/images/Darth-Vader.jpg

[Mendeli]

Hey which witchcraft book? When was it published?

I'm a huge fan of star wars and so are a few of my friends, this could be very nice piece of trivia if it could be hinted that G Lucas borrowed the term "Sith" from a witchcraft book! or...
It would be kind of fun to see witchcraft book take terms from a sci-fi movie... which ever was published first!

[delphi_ote]

It really is a word, but it makes no sense in either context:

sith
conj. Archaic

Since.

[Silly Green Monkey]

Widdershins!

[batman]

I'm speaking to a man today who's interest is in metephysics for the second affidavit. I am trying to decide on the third one. It's hard to just ask anyone if they would like to be "freaked out" by me and do me a favor and write me a statement. During this time... I get better and learn more about the forces in a scientific view and understanding which cause me to influence an objects movements better which will make the challenge easier to achieve without a doubt.

Mendeli, in response to your questions

) What do I have to do to successfully yo yo dowse?

2) Is it better to use regular yo yos, pendulums or potatoes?

3) Which brand of them?

4) How do I get "quantum" to work with the potatoes?

5) How do I contact the spirits to harness the spirit electrical force?

Answer
#1 It doesn't matter what you use. A round crystal ball works the best in "my" observations. There is nothing signifigant about a Yo-Yo except I can walk in public with one and use it to get answers without drawing attention.

#2 I like the potatoes. Easy to find matching weights, poke holes for string and is a good weight for momentum. A good pendulum is an old fashioned style pocket watch with a chain.

#3 Any brand.

#4 Quantum? Very scary. Practice moving a pendulm without using spirts. I practiced one day some time ago, my eyes suddenly saw everything as if reality was similar to a fuzzy tv screen and I don't have hallucinations. I had to stop in fear of disappearing. Use your own spirit if you have a gift of moving objects. Einsteins E=MC 2 is a good equations on Materialization and Dematerialization. Materialize your spirit. Why not? Just don't take it too far. And be sure to not open the door to bad spirits. A Ouija Board and Yourself are two different gateways, so answers and experiences will differ. Also, everyone has a different gift. Those who are classified as crazy, bi-polar and ect. are often without knowledge that they are gifted. Gaps in your neurological brain chemistry I discovered are open doorways. I told a friend that he isn't crazy, just gifted. He was then able to read my thoughts and see my second self in the room during my concentration.

#5 Try the book "The Art of Dowsing" by Richard Webster.

I found reference "with sith" in "The Encyclopedia of Witches and Witchcraft", by Rosemary Ellen Guiley.

[Gr8wight]

#4 Quantum? Very scary. Practice moving a pendulm without using spirts. I practiced one day some time ago, my eyes suddenly saw everything as if reality was similar to a fuzzy tv screen and I don't have hallucinations. I had to stop in fear of disappearing. Use your own spirit if you have a gift of moving objects. Einsteins E=MC 2 is a good equations on Materialization and Dematerialization. Materialize your spirit. Why not? Just don't take it too far. And be sure to not open the door to bad spirits. A Ouija Board and Yourself are two different gateways, so answers and experiences will differ. Also, everyone has a different gift. Those who are classified as crazy, bi-polar and ect. are often without knowledge that they are gifted. Gaps in your neurological brain chemistry I discovered are open doorways. I told a friend that he isn't crazy, just gifted. He was then able to read my thoughts and see my second self in the room during my concentration.

Oh, my.

[Mendeli]

Thanks for your answers, batman. I do appreciate it. Even if answer to #4 left me a bit confused, the other answers were informative, definitive, and to the point.

I think I found the book from amazon.com by googling for it. I'll check my local library before ordering though...


Now, I'd like to ask a couple more things, if you don't mind: (and I'll quote you)

According to Deja Allison D.D., P.h.d., telekinesis from her explanation is "quantum".


My psychic influence moves pendulums by perhaps, "spirit electrical force".


So telekinesis being quantum is Deja Allison's idea but you don't necessarily believe that, rather you'd think its got something to do with spirits. Is that correct?

I'm still confused about the term "spirit electrical force", what kind of force is this? You imply there's some sort of link between spirits and electricity? Is it feasible to measure it?

edit: fixed quote tags

[Anti_Hypeman]

I'm speaking to a man today who's interest is in metephysics for the second affidavit .....

You know you cant just get one from anybody right? I could go down to the local new age shop, impress a few lame brains with a simple card trick, and get affidavits but thats not what they are looking for. It has to be someone whos opinion will carry a little weight.

[themyst]

HI

First time visit to this thread and I have to ask ......

"Is 'batman' for real"

~face hits palm~ I just re-read what I asked and can not believe I actually asked that.
~now looks over shoulder~ I am now scared, going up to strangers and asking them if batman is real is asking for the 'men in white' to come and take me away ........ again.

[Harlequin]

Is it my imagination, or does it seem that the most interesting woos that come here all eventually turn out to be either trolls or just people that are off their meds?

Each time, I think:
"Hey this is great! This guy really believes this crazy stuff and is willing to discuss it rationally! We could actually get somewhere interesting this time."

As we wander down the garden path, gradually the truly strange and weird things creep out of the bushes and start following us. It builds slowly (or sometimes quickly) to a crescendo - at which point I'm just about to declare "Troll", when the friendly woo finally mentions something like:

Those who are classified as crazy, bi-polar and ect. are often without knowledge that they are gifted. Gaps in your neurological brain chemistry I discovered are open doorways.
That's when I realize just how "open" their mind really is and exactly what the implications are, not just in our discussions, but also in that person's everyday life.

I usually feel a wave of sadness at this point; combined with guilt that I may have contributed to someone's continued illness. I don't know why I'm so slow to pick up on the signs. It's a terrible feeling when you realize that you aren't really a champion of reason fighting against the darkness, but are more like a young punk throwing rocks at a wino.

batman, I hope one of your affadavits will come from a medical professional.

[delphi_ote]

#4 Quantum? Very scary. Practice moving a pendulm without using spirts. I practiced one day some time ago, my eyes suddenly saw everything as if reality was similar to a fuzzy tv screen and I don't have hallucinations. I had to stop in fear of disappearing. Use your own spirit if you have a gift of moving objects. Einsteins E=MC 2 is a good equations on Materialization and Dematerialization. Materialize your spirit. Why not? Just don't take it too far. And be sure to not open the door to bad spirits. A Ouija Board and Yourself are two different gateways, so answers and experiences will differ. Also, everyone has a different gift. Those who are classified as crazy, bi-polar and ect. are often without knowledge that they are gifted. Gaps in your neurological brain chemistry I discovered are open doorways. I told a friend that he isn't crazy, just gifted. He was then able to read my thoughts and see my second self in the room during my concentration.
I'm worried. In all seriousness, please speak to a mental health care professional about these things. Even if you think my concern is misplaced, perhaps you could kill two birds with one stone and ask one to sign one of the affidavits.

[rjh01]

Batman
I will second the above post. Please do not post here until you have seen a mental health care professional. Then post his name and contact details on this thread. And certify that you have seen him and discussed this thread with him.

Everyone else
Please ignore batman until he has done the above,

[delphi_ote]

Batman
I will second the above post. Please do not post here until you have seen a mental health care professional. Then post his name and contact details on this thread. And certify that you have seen him and discussed this thread with him.

Everyone else
Please ignore batman until he has done the above,
Just a note: we're not officially acting as JREF representatives. Our requests are not backed up with any kind of authority. They have nothing to do with the Million Dollar Challenge.

But Ryan, please understand that we're just two people reading the things you write concerned for your well being. The things you're saying sound like they would be very frightening and confusing for you. Exploring this cave sounds like it might be very dangerous. Please talk to someone who might be able to help you. Even if you think we're being silly, humor us.

[rjh01]

Agreed.

[Mendeli]

To me it sounds like poetry! I never understood that either ;)

(edit: I was referring to that answer of #4)

[batman]

Thanks for your concern. But I've only shared very little of my experiences and knowledge. I do not feel like shrinking shrinks though. I'm looking also to display my abilities to news people as well. You see, contacting spirits is very easy for me and like I said, "I'm willing to prove it". I need money and a vacation obviously.
And what if I'm saying is correct? I can help people deal better than a pill pushing shrink.

[Paul2]

And what if I'm saying is correct? I can help people deal better than a pill pushing shrink.You shifted from a possibility ("what if . . .") to a claim ("I can. . ."). If you said "I *might* be able to help people . . . ," that would be better, but, you know, I might be the Queen of England.

[Mendeli]

That might be the first queen of England we would be calling Paul. :)

[Ririon]

That might be the first queen of England we would be calling Paul. :)
"Not that there's anything wrong with that!" :D

[timokay]

Thanks for your concern. But I've only shared very little of my experiences and knowledge. I do not feel like shrinking shrinks though. I'm looking also to display my abilities to news people as well. You see, contacting spirits is very easy for me and like I said, "I'm willing to prove it". I need money and a vacation obviously.
And what if I'm saying is correct? I can help people deal better than a pill pushing shrink.

Son, go seek someone to TALK to.
You have no powers, and are very confused.
Please, just go and be someone's friend.

No special powers are needed for that.

Please.

[rjh01]

Batman
You remind me of a very powerful machine that needs a minor adjustment to work. Go to a doctor and get that minor adjustment done, then you will know the truth. We here cannot help you. Applying for the prize until the adjustment is done will be a waste of time.

[Gr8wight]

I am about to delete Ryan's videos from my ftp space. Anyone else who wants to see them should do it within the next couple of days. Links to them are here:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1458202#post1458202

[themyst]

Batman
You remind me of a very powerful machine that needs a minor adjustment to work.

I keep on wanting to say something about throwing a spanner into the works.

[delphi_ote]

Thanks for your concern. But I've only shared very little of my experiences and knowledge. I do not feel like shrinking shrinks though. I'm looking also to display my abilities to news people as well. You see, contacting spirits is very easy for me and like I said, "I'm willing to prove it". I need money and a vacation obviously.
And what if I'm saying is correct? I can help people deal better than a pill pushing shrink.
Ryan, please ignore anyone you feel is being rude or misunderstanding in this thread. We all mean well, but perhaps some of us are having trouble understanding you. I know I am trying very hard. Please be patient with me.

You seem like a very intelligent person. Some people are so intelligent, they confuse most people they talk to. Psychologists are very good at understanding when others cannot. If you talked to a psychologist, maybe they could help explain the things you're thinking about in a way we could better understand. They could act as a translator.

If you come out to the JREF and nobody there is smart enough to understand you, that won't help anyone! If proving your unique gifts to the world is important to you, please talk to a psychologist.

[batman]

Thanks for your concern. I'm actually speaking to a psychiatrist in little more than a week. The affidavits are going to be completed very soon by very worthy writers. Things should get fun in the world very soon.

[William Smith]

...
Things should get fun in the world very soon.

'Bout time! We look forward to see what you can do.

[delphi_ote]

Thanks for your concern. I'm actually speaking to a psychiatrist in little more than a week. The affidavits are going to be completed very soon by very worthy writers. Things should get fun in the world very soon.
Great news all around! :)

[rjh01]

You never know, the psychiatrist may even join us.

[batman]

Hey, I'm getting close to finishing the affidavits. I'm been living in the forest for quite some time studying. I'll have the affidavits complete by the end of August. I have to travel a bit to meet those doing the affidavits. It is actually very difficult to find people to do it. Getting someone to go out of their way is hard.
The psychologist I met kinda freaked out saying "whoooa man, I can't have anything to do with that, that really freaks me out". At least he wrote me up as being mentally disabled so I could get some financial assistance. All I had to do was tell the truth.
I've also leared I can do other things during my time in the forest. Stay tuned, I've got myself ready to be #1 on the National Witch Burning List.

[chillzero]

The psychologist I met kinda freaked out saying "whoooa man, I can't have anything to do with that, that really freaks me out". At least he wrote me up as being mentally disabled so I could get some financial assistance. All I had to do was tell the truth.

Batman, Please make absolutely sure that this is the absolute and only reason that he wrote you up this way.
I am not an expert on these things, but I don't think that this would be legal or ethical, and so you need to be prepared to accept that he may have been trying to be honest with you, and you just didn't take it in.

[ChaosEngineer]

Hey, I'm getting close to finishing the affidavits. I'm been living in the forest for quite some time studying. I'll have the affidavits complete by the end of August. I have to travel a bit to meet those doing the affidavits. It is actually very difficult to find people to do it. Getting someone to go out of their way is hard.
The psychologist I met kinda freaked out saying "whoooa man, I can't have anything to do with that, that really freaks me out". At least he wrote me up as being mentally disabled so I could get some financial assistance. All I had to do was tell the truth.

I'm sorry, but this is completely unacceptable.

If you're capable of earning a million dollars from the Randi challenge, then it's absolutely sickening that you're applying for welfare. There are people out there who really do need financial assistance, and as far as I'm concerned you're stealing from them. I could understand it if you just needed some temporary support while you got the affidavits together. But it's been months, and it sounds like you haven't even been trying.

Well, what's done is done. Let's start moving forwards. Can you get your psychologist to write an affidavit saying that he's "really freaked out" by your yo-yo demonstration?


I've also leared I can do other things during my time in the forest. Stay tuned, I've got myself ready to be #1 on the National Witch Burning List.
Don't worry. People who scam the welfare system don't get put to death; they just go to jail.

[batman]

What do you know? Your not homeless and without food, Are you? And living in the middle of nowhere on foot owning nothing but what I carry. Having a gun put to your head for your school money? Education wasted? Everything taken from you? I don't like your reply or you at all.

[batman]

Also,
I really don't like your stupid quote, "Don't worry. People who scam the welfare system don't get put to death; they just go to jail."

I can see you right now, ....running scared down that dark ally way.

[Gr8wight]

What do you know? Your not homeless and without food, Are you? And living in the middle of nowhere on foot owning nothing but what I carry. Having a gun put to your head for your school money? Education wasted? Everything taken from you? I don't like your reply or you at all.

...with a laptop.

[Flange Desire]

It won't be long now.
I am in suspenders, and have been for months now.

[mrfreeze]

ChaosEngineer: My guess would be that the shrink really belives he is batfeces loco. But I can't wait for an application to finally get seen to the end. That hasn't happened in a while.

Wonder whatever happened to Ian Conger, or that guy who was stalking the girl with his mind?

[Dumb All Over]

And whatever happened to our Mental Professor? Anyone wanna bet a similar thing happens with batman?

[William Smith]

And whatever happened to our Mental Professor? Anyone wanna bet a similar thing happens with batman?

Still donning that avatar, huh?



I would not want to bet on this.
However, experience shows the probability of an accepted application - let alone a preliminary test - is inversely proportional to the amount of talk on the part of the applicant beforehand.

Therefore: Patience, mrfreeze, patience.

And thank you very much for delivering my phrase o' the week: Batfeces Loco. Due to your inspirational input, I did a song with the exact title. It's kinda like the song "Mr. Roper, Mr. Roper", performed by "Irish" Terry Conklin in the movie "The Great White Hype". I love it. And I love you.

[petre]

In kindness to potential applicants, it should be noted that application processing has been relatively slow of late. It is possible such people are wary to submit something until a faster turnaround becomes common again.

[Dumb All Over]

Still donning that avatar, huh?
I remember how complimentary and kind you were when my avatar first appeared. Gzuz, your encouraging words were the motivating catalyst for my decision to keep this avatar.:p

On to business. Batman, by his own admission, has now met with a psychologist who determined a mental disability exists. Can we now call him 'Mental Batman'? Patience with koo koo applicants is not a virtue I possess. I hope he gets the psychological help he obviously needs. But as for a challenge test, no way, ain't gonna happen.

[William Smith]

...
On to business. Batman, by his own admission, has now met with a psychologist who determined a mental disability exists. Can we now call him 'Mental Batman'? Patience with koo koo applicants is not a virtue I possess. I hope he gets the psychological help he obviously needs. But as for a challenge test, no way, ain't gonna happen.

Dumb All Over, did you intend your "complimentary and kind, encouraging words" as a "motivating catalyst" to batman?

[Dumb All Over]

If my words encourage Mental Batman to seek further help with his disability, to take appropriate medication, and to follow through with any treatment suggested by his psychologist, then that would be a positive, albeit unintended, consequence. My words were in no way intended to encourage MB to follow through with his desire to be tested by JREF. Quite the contrary. If anything, they are intended to discourage him from continuing to feed his delusions.

[William Smith]

...
On to business. Batman, by his own admission, has now met with a psychologist who determined a mental disability exists. Can we now call him 'Mental Batman'? Patience with koo koo applicants is not a virtue I possess. I hope he gets the psychological help he obviously needs. But as for a challenge test, no way, ain't gonna happen.

If my words encourage Mental Batman to seek further help with his disability, to take appropriate medication, and to follow through with any treatment suggested by his psychologist, then that would be a positive, albeit unintended, consequence. My words were in no way intended to encourage MB to follow through with his desire to be tested by JREF. Quite the contrary. If anything, they are intended to discourage him from continuing to feed his delusions.

(Highlights by me.) Really?

Dumb All Over, for what reasons did you choose not to address your "advice" to batman directly, but in the third person instead?

[Dumb All Over]

(Highlights by me.) Really?

Dumb All Over, for what reasons did you choose not to address your "advice" to batman directly, but in the third person instead?
Simple. I was answering your question. Gzuz, I know you're big on 'politeness'. It wouldn't have been very polite of me to answer your question by addressing MB. You asked the question. I answered it. If MB had asked, I would have answered him. Any more questions?

[delphi_ote]

...with a laptop.
They took his money, but not the laptop.

[William Smith]

Simple. I was answering your question. Gzuz, I know you're big on 'politeness'. It wouldn't have been very polite of me to answer your question by addressing MB. You asked the question. I answered it. If MB had asked, I would have answered him. Any more questions?

Yes. Can you please name my post to which this following statement of yours refers to by posing as an answer?


...
On to business. Batman, by his own admission, has now met with a psychologist who determined a mental disability exists. Can we now call him 'Mental Batman'? Patience with koo koo applicants is not a virtue I possess. I hope he gets the psychological help he obviously needs. But as for a challenge test, no way, ain't gonna happen.

[Dumb All Over]

No, I can't. There isn't one. That wasn't the only quote you cited. My answer to your question was in reference to the additional quote.

[batman]

...with a laptop.
With a Library.

[batman]

One more affidavit to go. I'm gett'in it from a cute girl in the psychology business. Gotta travel 30 miles to go see her in about a week. She don't know what I can do with my hands.

[delphi_ote]

One more affidavit to go. I'm gett'in it from a cute girl in the psychology business. Gotta travel 30 miles to go see her in about a week. She don't know what I can do with my hands.
Well, I hope that goes well. Good luck with it!

[William Smith]

One more affidavit to go. I'm gett'in it from a cute girl in the psychology business. Gotta travel 30 miles to go see her in about a week. She don't know what I can do with my hands.

Well, don't get her confused with Robin.

Glad you're moving forward. Can't wait to see your claim tested.

[Thomas]

One more affidavit to go. I'm gett'in it from a cute girl in the psychology business. Gotta travel 30 miles to go see her in about a week. She don't know what I can do with my hands.
I'm glad to see you back, Ryan. I was sort of worried for you, since you gave the impression that you had a few serious struggles to cope with in this thread - I'm sure I wasn't the only one.

I'll look forward to see your claim tested as well, but I personally don't think you should rush it, just take it slow :)

[rjh01]

Batman
Your post implies you have two already. Tell us about who did those (their occupation) and what you showed them. You have done well. You are probably the first person to get two affidavits. This is amazing in itself.

Is one by a psychiatrist? If so, then JREF will have to take you seriously.

[Dumb All Over]

Yes, please tell us. Who are they? Do they carry the type of high credentials needed to convince the JREF to test you?

And, regarding the third affidavit, you say she is in the "psychology business". What does that mean?

[batman]

Well my time is short at the moment. All three affidavits are being done by educated professionals. Which will hopefully suffice. They are three people who I chose based on my gut feeling. That is "one" reason why I'm taking my time. I look forward to sharing more information to events I've witnessed and my skills of communicating with other life forms to the public.

[Dumb All Over]

Ryan, can you be more specific? Can you tell us what you mean by "educated professionals"? What are their actual titles? What do they do for a living? Please elaborate. Who are they?

[delphi_ote]

Well my time is short at the moment. All three affidavits are being done by educated professionals. Which will hopefully suffice. They are three people who I chose based on my gut feeling. That is "one" reason why I'm taking my time. I look forward to sharing more information to events I've witnessed and my skills of communicating with other life forms to the public.
How did things go with the cute girl in the psychology business?

[batman]

I have to meet her shortly. Thanks for asking.
As for the details on who exactly writes the affidavits, I would rather not get into too much detail on their lives. I appreciate very much that they went out of their way for me thinking I'm possibly being ridiculous and I don't want to put thier livihoods in any jepordy for doing me a favor. One is a scientist (now a business owner), one a teacher, and one a psychiatric professional. People like me historically for hundreds of years get murdered in order to sustain truth & ect. for the power of slavery.
Time for another brew.

[William Smith]

I have to meet her shortly. Thanks for asking.
As for the details on who exactly writes the affidavits, I would rather not get into too much detail on their lives. I appreciate very much that they went out of their way for me thinking I'm possibly being ridiculous and I don't want to put thier livihoods in any jepordy for doing me a favor. One is a scientist (now a business owner), one a teacher, and one a psychiatric professional. People like me historically for hundreds of years get murdered in order to sustain truth & ect. for the power of slavery.
Time for another brew.

I do not agree with your statement in your second to last sentence.
Describing your habits with chemical stimuli might not serve towards strengthening your credibility as a Challenge Applicant. Well, as one who actually has or does what he claims.

What will be your next steps towards proving your claim, batman?

[Dumb All Over]

Ryan,
OK. Thank you. But further elaboration would be most helpful. Without revealing any personal information that would identify these folks, I'm sure you could, for instance, tell us what the teacher teaches. Does he/she teach in a public school? Does he/she teach at the college level? Maybe they teach Cooking, or Karate, or some other vocation? How about the scientist? What area of science was he/she involved in? And, again, I ask what you mean by "psychiatric professional"? Surely, these questions can be answered without putting anyone in jeopardy.

[Dumb All Over]

Oh, and one more thing. Ryan, would you be willing to post the actual wording of each affidavit? In other words, what did the document say that these people were willing to sign? Thanks.

[William Smith]

Oh, and one more thing. Ryan, would you be willing to post the actual wording of each affidavit? In other words, what did the document say that these people were willing to sign? Thanks.

Second.

[PBTree]

Finally finished reading all of the posts and now i am completely depressed.

How sad is all that. I feel like racing home and giving my son a big hug just for the sake of it.



"There but for good fortune, Go I"

[William Smith]

Finally finished reading all of the posts and now i am completely depressed.

How sad is all that. I feel like racing home and giving my son a big hug just for the sake of it.



"There but for good fortune, Go I"

"Hug gratia hugis." :)



What exactly made you depressed, PBTree?

[petre]

From the description he's given, it's possible the professionals have not actually witnessed a demonstration yet, but that they have agreed to do so and then sign afterwards. Hopefully the demonstration will go well and they'll be able to help him out.

[Dumb All Over]

From the description he's given, it's possible the professionals have not actually witnessed a demonstration yet, but that they have agreed to do so and then sign afterwards. Hopefully the demonstration will go well and they'll be able to help him out.

Agreed, this is possible. Maybe he's planning on one demonstration when all three professionals are present. But he also said, "One more affidavit to go." Confusing.

As far as the demonstration going well, in my mind the best outcome would be that his professionals are able to see right through his delusions and urge him to pursue other interests. This is the "help" he needs more than any other.

[PBTree]

"Hug gratia hugis." :)



What exactly made you depressed, PBTree?

The fact that there are so many sad people out there who believe all this nonsense. Even worse is the fact that there are probably just as many a..holes (e.g. SB) who are willing to take advantage of them.

[batman]

I still haven't completed the third one due to traveling to live somewhere else. I'm meet a psychiatrist on the 30th who may do one of them. If not, I'll keep looking around. Where I'm staying at has a flesh eating virus problem. It took me 5 minutes to find a cure for it using my skills. Also, my response to "Dumb All Over's" words is "just wait". Most people don't believe these things until they meet me. I often like asking people, "How does it feel to have someone you cannot see or know moving something attached to your hand?". Their reactions make it worth it.

[batman]

Also, the first two demonstrations were great. I hung a potatoe, gave it a nudge, and asked the swinging object "which direction is Rex's car", "Which direction is his cat walking?, and "Which direction is his wife?" The object swung toward his car, then swung toward his cat, then turned and started swing toward his wife. Then his kids came to see what we were doing and started asking several questions.
I wrote yes, no, next question, and I don't know on paper, placed it under the swinging potatoe and let the potatoe swing in the direction of their answers. The potates will stay swinging in one direction. When a question is asked, it will turn and swing in the direction needed. His kids told everybody at their school I discovered on my visit the following day. There was a whole crowd of school kids asking for me to perform a trick or two. I would just hang a pendelum on their finger and let them ask questions. The pendelum never fails to stun them.
The second affidavit writer was a good one as well. I did similar tricks with a rock tied to a string attached to a stick. I nudged the rock and it would swing in whatever direction I commanded. I first asked him, "What happens when I lift the pendelum and let it swing in one direction?". He said it just keeps swinging until it stops. I pointed my finger in a direction other that the pendelum is swinging and it turned around and began swinging the exact direction my finger is pointing. Then again and again. I can do it over and over.

[William Smith]

Also, the first two demonstrations were great. I hung a potatoe, gave it a nudge, and asked the swinging object "which direction is Rex's car", "Which direction is his cat walking?, and "Which direction is his wife?" The object swung toward his car, then swung toward his cat, then turned and started swing toward his wife. Then his kids came to see what we were doing and started asking several questions.
I wrote yes, no, next question, and I don't know on paper, placed it under the swinging potatoe and let the potatoe swing in the direction of their answers. The potates will stay swinging in one direction. When a question is asked, it will turn and swing in the direction needed. His kids told everybody at their school I discovered on my visit the following day. There was a whole crowd of school kids asking for me to perform a trick or two. I would just hang a pendelum on their finger and let them ask questions. The pendelum never fails to stun them.
The second affidavit writer was a good one as well. I did similar tricks with a rock tied to a string attached to a stick. I nudged the rock and it would swing in whatever direction I commanded. I first asked him, "What happens when I lift the pendelum and let it swing in one direction?". He said it just keeps swinging until it stops. I pointed my finger in a direction other that the pendelum is swinging and it turned around and began swinging the exact direction my finger is pointing. Then again and again. I can do it over and over.

Have you considered posting the affidavit/s here, batman?

You seem to make progress in some sense, but I'm not yet convinced of your "power" because so far, all we have is your word/s. We will remain patient.

In the end you will have to provide a demonstration under careful scrutiny. Only this demonstration will determine - along the lines of the protocol - what you bring to the table.

[delphi_ote]

I still haven't completed the third one due to traveling to live somewhere else. I'm meet a psychiatrist on the 30th who may do one of them.
Glad to hear it, batman. My thoughts will be with you. I hope it goes well for you and that she can help you.

[Dumb All Over]

Where I'm staying at has a flesh eating virus problem. It took me 5 minutes to find a cure for it using my skills.

Whoa!

Really, Batman?

Don't tell me that, in addition to being an expert potato swinger, you can also cure diseases?! That's so RAD, B-man.

Do you have other hidden talents you, heretofore, have not shared with us? Please tell.

"Wholly Ideomotor Effect, Batman!"

[rjh01]

Have you considered posting the affidavit/s here, batman?

Great idea. What you need to do is scan the affidavits into your computer. You should then have a picture (*.jpg) of the affidavits. You then need to upload the pictures onto JREF's website. You do this by clicking on VB Image Host at the top of this (and every) page. Once done you post the links. You will be told what the links are when you upload the image.

NB. There are size limitations of the pictures. These are

Allowed file types .gif , .jpg , .png , .bmp
Max image size allowed500 KB
Max image dimension allowed800 * 800

If you can do that then you will send all the regular posters, including me, here blind, as our eyes will pop out.

[Cuddles]

"Which direction is his cat walking?" ... then swung toward his cat

In what way did this answer the question? You seem to be posting this as evidence of your power, despite the fact that it clearly didn't answer the question.

[ChristineR]

In order for these sorts of tests to be valid you must not know the answer in advance. An easy test would be for Rex to hide a quarter under one of four bowls, then have Rex leave the room, then let the potato pick a bowl.

If you can do that consistently, you will be rich.

If it is necessary for Rex to be in the room when you pick the bowls, Rex can be blindfolded. Neither of you should say anything beyond "I'm starting now." or the like.

[batman]

I had a very good visit with Dr. Carol A. Brown M.d. whom is a very nice psychiatrist with several certificates posted behind her desk. After telling her my problems I showed her a printed copy of what the JREF million dollar challenge is and told her I'm an applicant. She was quite intrigued and I offered to show her a trick or two. She was actually quite happy to participate to my surprise. I pulled out of my bag a stick for her to hold which also had a rock hanging from the end of the stick by a string. I lifted the rock and let it swing.
While the rock was swinging I asked which direction Dr. Brown is and it began to swing directly toward her. I then asked which direction the clock is on her desk and it turned and began swinging to the clock. I
was very happy the demonstration was successful since it's very hard to ask people and she is a serious professional. She said she would be happy to write an affidavit but cannot due to technicalities. She referred me to visit Dr. Given Ross M.D. with whom I'm waiting for a call back from.
I do not have a scanner for the other affidavits. I live in a tent, so therefore, there is no electricity. I am using a library computer. I should be able to come up with a way to display the next affidavit coming up from Dr. Ross which should be complete within two weeks at the worst. I will do my best. Also, the cure I found for fighting flesh eating viris is a foam growing out of a palm tree. The problem with things like staff infection is that wounds don't scab up, they get bigger and more disgusting. The brown foam from the palm tree becomes a natural scab bandage when applied to the wound. I found the growth on the palm tree with my pendelum behind the library.

[William Smith]

Batman, even with a limited budget, you should be able to find a copy shop/net café/whathaveyou where you can have your documents scanned and uploaded to the JREF server.

You have to come up with something more than your words, if you want to convince the forum members of your ability.

[steenkh]

I pulled out of my bag a stick for her to hold which also had a rock hanging from the end of the stick by a string. I lifted the rock and let it swing.
While the rock was swinging I asked which direction Dr. Brown is and it began to swing directly toward her. I then asked which direction the clock is on her desk and it turned and began swinging to the clock.
A fine demonstration of the ideomotor effect! I find it absolutely brilliant to let the test person actually hold the string! It should be part of any psychology curriculum!

[Kimpatsu]

The problem with things like staff infection is that wounds don't scab up, they get bigger and more disgusting.
Yes, I certainly found all the staff at my last office job to be disgusting. Or is your dowsing rod (quarterstaff) infected?
In the case of MRSA, however, one needs qualified staff to identify the staph(ylococcus)...

[nathan]

I pulled out of my bag a stick for her to hold which also had a rock hanging from the end of the stick by a string. ... While the rock was swinging I asked which direction Dr. Brown is and it began to swing directly toward her. I then asked which direction the clock is on her desk and it turned and began swinging to the clock.

These details make it not a paranormal claim. Either Dr Brown should not be holding the stick or she should not know the answers to the questions. Then it might be paranormal.

[rwguinn]

A fine demonstration of the ideomotor effect! I find it absolutely brilliant to let the test person actually hold the string! It should be part of any psychology curriculum!

my exact thoughts!
when are you applying,you telepath, you?

[batman]

How about if I just not do anything at all since everyone on here is rude and not worth doing anything for. I really mean that. I hope the Mayan calender prophesies of 2012 are correct. You haven't seen anything yet.
Also, you should watch your mouth when you do not know the stranger your bad mouthing. You should be nice to people period. No matter who you are or who your rude to. That one person can make (your life) not pleasent. Kimpatsu, your dull office job is about all you know in life, try spending some time in a vortex. I'll be thinking about you.

[Dumb All Over]

How about if I just not do anything at all...

OK.

Goodbye and good luck.

[Kimpatsu]

Kimpatsu, your dull office job is about all you know in life, try spending some time in a vortex. I'll be thinking about you.
You mean my dull self-employed business, don't you?
And where do you hang out? The Batcave?

[William Smith]

How about if I just not do anything at all since everyone on here is rude and not worth doing anything for.
...


Did you try to take the Challenge for our or for your benefit, batman?

Does this mean some comments on this message board keep/kept you from showing your powers to the universe?



To the important question the important answer you must find: What you claim you can prove?

[delphi_ote]

How about if I just not do anything at all since everyone on here is rude and not worth doing anything for. I really mean that.
I have not been rude to you. In fact, I've been very concerned about you, and I think I've shown a lot of compassion since you first arrived. Please don't let a few sarcastic people upset you. Their reactions are not important. What's important is that you've been making progress. Keep working with the psychologists and taking care of yourself. Once you get those affidavits signed, you'll be on your way to being tested.

Even if we don't believe in your powers, I'd still very much like you to keep in contact with us and let us know what's going on. I know I'll always be willing to listen.

[delphi_ote]

@everyone else

Please be considerate, even if we're skeptical of batman's claims. It seems clear that he is having a rather hard time with his life. The best we can do is extend patience and understanding to a man in his condition and keep encouraging him to take steps in the right direction. Eventually, he'll either take the test or he won't. That's not nearly as important as his talking with people who will understand his circumstances and help him. Right now, it seems like he's at least trying to do just that. If the JREF's Challenge affadavit requirement was the impetus for that action, I couldn't be more proud of my membership.

[chillzero]

@everyone else

Please be considerate, even if we're skeptical of batman's claims. It seems clear that he is having a rather hard time with his life. The best we can do is extend patience and understanding to a man in his condition and keep encouraging him to take steps in the right direction. Eventually, he'll either take the test or he won't. That's not nearly as important as his talking with people who will understand his circumstances and help him. Right now, it seems like he's at least trying to do just that. If the JREF's Challenge affadavit requirement was the impetus for that action, I couldn't be more proud of my membership.

Nicely put Delphi_ote.
Before anyone gets started in on the old arguement about whether claimants are treated as they deserve to be, I would like to point out the banner on the forum. I don't know if it is new, or if I had just never noticed it before, but it states that the forum is "a place to discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly and lively way". Let's keep it friendly, eh?

[Kimpatsu]

I'd rather we kept it honest.

[delphi_ote]

I'd rather we kept it honest.
Where are we not being honest? I'm just asking that we be more courteous and patient than usual with batman. Our posts here are actually affecting him in real life, and that life seems very difficult and confused. The importance of making a point and being right has to take back seat to compassion. Batman is apparently making an effort at the affadavits, and seems to have chosen very good people to see about them. That's more than most challenge applicants. Let's be supportive.

Eventually, he'll either send them in or he won't and then we'll know. Until then, let's not pounce on him. He seems to believe what he's telling us, and he doesn't seem to mean anyone any harm.

[personable]

The importance of making a point and being right has to take back seat to compassion.


Is compassion [in this respect] really what Ryan needs though? One could argue that encouraging him with these fantasies when he is clearly a troubled young man, is doing him more harm than good?

I'm not suggesting being mean or crude to him, not for a moment, but bringing real world fact to him in a friendly way might be the best. He isn't going to get these affidavits, so I'm not entirely sure that encouraging him to go along and get them would do anything except fuel his delusions.

I don't know the answer either, but I'm not convinced that 'going along with him' is the best thing to do - for his sake.

[delphi_ote]

Is compassion [in this respect] really what Ryan needs though? One could argue that encouraging him with these fantasies when he is clearly a troubled young man, is doing him more harm than good?
Compassion absolutely is what every person needs on some level. If the man is seeking help from a psychologist, he absolutely has my support. He clearly leads a very confusing and difficult life.
I'm not suggesting being mean or crude to him, not for a moment, but bringing real world fact to him in a friendly way might be the best.
Your posts on an internet forum will be so convincing as to counter what he believes he's actually experiencing? Maybe you should examine your own delusions first. Is being right about something so important to you that you can't be patient with someone you disagree with?
He isn't going to get these affidavits
How do you know that? You're making a lot of unnecessary assumptions, and a lot of them are very negative about batman. Even it's your suspicion, why turn it into an unfounded accusation? If you don't believe his claim anyway, why are the affadavits important?
I don't know the answer either, but I'm not convinced that 'going along with him' is the best thing to do - for his sake.
Going along with his decision to talk to people who will understand his condition is absolutely the right thing to do.

[personable]

delphi_ote:"Your posts on an internet forum will be so convincing as to counter what he believes he's actually experiencing? Maybe you should examine your own delusions first. Is being right about something so important to you that you can't be patient with someone you disagree with?"

I said "bringing real world facts to him", I didn't say I expected him to suddenly believe them, but the hope is that some point along the line he will reassess his situation and an important factor will be that no-one else actually believed he could magically influence potatoes and that would perhaps help him overcome that delusion.

Being patient with someone is not the same as telling them what they want to hear, and while the former clearly has benefits to all types of persons, I think the latter can be even harmful to the mentally unstable.

I was reading the challenge application from the guy who drank red bull and did push ups to perform his esp trick. Even after he failed, he initially accepted his failure but came back on here in short order literally begging for a glimpse of hope, encouragement, anything to say that esp is real. The members were being cruel to be kind in telling him that it was not real and I think they forced him to confront his beliefs with rational thinking, all the while being very pleasant and praising of his courteousness and manners. I think that is a good model to use for people whose beliefs may be having a pathological effect upon their lives. ie give encouragement but no false hope.

Personable: "he won't get the affidavits"

delphi_ote: "How do you know that? You're making a lot of unnecessary assumptions, and a lot of them are very negative about batman. Even it's your suspicion, why turn it into an unfounded accusation? If you don't believe his claim anyway, why are the affadavits important?"

We have to make some assumptions, otherwise we just kill this thread and say nothing until he completes the paperwork and schedules a test. What I'm doing, as I suspect many others are, is making a judgement on what I think the outcome will be, based on my knowledge and experience of people and of the extensive details posted up here of previous applicants and their traits.

Not sure what you mean by the last sentence above; I will not believe his claim until he proves it to be true by completing the jref test under proper conditions. As this doesn't seem to be forthcoming, I think its fair to speculate on what he is or is not doing. Since I doubt a doctor said "whooo hoo man, that totally freaks me out dude" when asked to view the potato trick, I don't think he has been to see a doctor, perhaps because sustaining the delusion is an important escape for him, though I don't see how this can be healthy in anyone.

[William Smith]

Did you try to take the Challenge for our or for your benefit, batman?

Does this mean some comments on this message board keep/kept you from showing your powers to the universe?



To the important question the important answer you must find: What you claim you can prove?

[batman]

Why make fun of my potatoes? I can hang a few choice family members upside down by their shoes and do the same tricks without touching them. I may be taking my time with this show, but I have a lot of thinking to do when it comes as to whether I will save humanity from themselves or not. Do you think it's worth the effort?

[William Smith]

I reported your post, batman.

Please refrain from threatening people.

[Dumb All Over]

Why make fun of my potatoes?

I watched your video snippets awhile back when they were available here. I must say you have some of the funniest potatoes I've ever seen.

[Dumb All Over]

Do you think it's worth the effort?

No.

[Dumb All Over]

I reported your post, batman.

Please refrain from threatening people.

Gzuz, which post are you referring to?

[delphi_ote]

Why make fun of my potatoes? I can hang a few choice family members upside down by their shoes and do the same tricks without touching them. I may be taking my time with this show, but I have a lot of thinking to do when it comes as to whether I will save humanity from themselves or not. Do you think it's worth the effort?
Please stick to those affidavits, batman. The Challenge is what this forum is all about!

[William Smith]

Gzuz, which post are you referring to?

This one:

Why make fun of my potatoes? I can hang a few choice family members upside down by their shoes and do the same tricks without touching them. I may be taking my time with this show, but I have a lot of thinking to do when it comes as to whether I will save humanity from themselves or not. Do you think it's worth the effort?

Hanging family members upside down? (Reason for the report.)
Saving humanity from themselves?

If this contains a joke I definitely didn't get it.

[jmontecillo01]

Why make fun of my potatoes? I can hang a few choice family members upside down by their shoes and do the same tricks without touching them. I may be taking my time with this show, but I have a lot of thinking to do when it comes as to whether I will save humanity from themselves or not. Do you think it's worth the effort?

batman, I hope you will not take this personally. I am a person suffering from schiz-affective and I know that one of the common delusions is the belief that we are supposed to save humanity from itself. In fact I still have this delusion but I do not take it as seriously as before.

I have learned a lot from the voice that I heard. In reality, I want to share what I have learned to the world, but how do I do it. What I do now is try to prove to myself some of the things the voice "taught me".

As to your question, "Do you think it is worth the effort", if there is truth to paranormal claims, examine if it is worth it and if man can exploit it. If a man can exploit it, then mankind is not ready for such a knowledge. For example the claim to telekenesis or telepathy. With such a knowledge, we lose our basic right to privacy as others will be able to read our thoughts. As for telekenesis, men with the knowledge will be able to terrorize his fellow man, say, by causing another twin tower disaster simply by controlling the planes with their minds.

[Dumb All Over]

Hanging family members upside down? (Reason for the report.)
Saving humanity from themselves?

If this contains a joke I definitely didn't get it.

Thank you Gzuz,

I do not agree with your assessment. I did not detect anything within that post that could be construed as threatening. While reading his post, I instantly had a vision of Houdini hanging over the streets of New York by his ankles and demonstrating that he could escape from a straight jacket. I think Ryan was saying that his powers are not limited to potatoes but could work with virtually any object, up to and including live human beings.

Of course, the best way to know what Ryan meant is to ask him directly. But, as all who have posted here know, expecting a direct answer from Ryan would be an exercise in futility.

Please reconsider your report of this post.

That being said, I would be very interested to know what other forum members think of that post and whether it poses any kind of threat, if they care to chime in.

[delphi_ote]

This one:



Hanging family members upside down? (Reason for the report.)
Saving humanity from themselves?

If this contains a joke I definitely didn't get it.
It's not a joke. It's a claim about his power. I don't think he meant any harm by it. Take it easy.

[William Smith]

...
That being said, I would be very interested to know what other forum members think of that post and whether it poses any kind of threat, if they care to chime in.

Me, too. I look forward to comments. Including yours, batman.



The mods will have to decide if they act on the report, in case they see a breach of the membership agreement.
Should my action be considered inappropriate by the mods, I will evaluate further potential reports even more thoroughly than usual.

[Dumb All Over]

Should my action be considered inappropriate by the mods, I will evaluate further potential reports even more thoroughly than usual.

I don't think your action is inappropriate. It is commendable. If any member believes a breach of agreement has occurred or believes a threat has been made in this forum, I hope they would do the same thing and report it.

It's OK to debate the merits of the reported post after it has been reported. In this case, I don't think it lives up to quite the level of a threat.

[William Smith]

I don't think your action is inappropriate. It is commendable. If any member believes a breach of agreement has occurred or believes a threat has been made in this forum, I hope they would do the same thing and report it.

It's OK to debate the merits of the reported post after it has been reported. In this case, I don't think it lives up to quite the level of a threat.

The more I consider said post, the more I agree with you, Dumb All Over, that it might not really live up to a threat.
However, there remains still enough bad taste in my mouth which slightly tips the scale towards reporting.

I appreciate any constructive feedback, as it very likely helps me and those who read this thread to shape our ethic foundation on which we interact here. I dish it out galore sometimes, hence I also will endure hits.



Your thoughts on this, batman?

[rjh01]

We do not get feedback on reports. I have reported several members, many of them now no longer posting here. I only once got feedback and in that case I did not say the member had done anything wrong. Since there is nothing in public announcements I think the best thing to do is forget it. If this debate goes on I will report the debate.

[delphi_ote]

If this debate goes on I will report the debate.
I will report you for reporting the debate about reporting.

[TjW]

I will report you for reporting the debate about reporting.

I will debate whether you will report someone for reporting the debate about reporting.

[delphi_ote]

I will debate whether you will report someone for reporting the debate about reporting.
Someone report about whether for debate I the you.

Oh ****. :eusa_doh:

[rjh01]

Done.

[Dumb All Over]

Weather report-
Currently 19 degrees F.

[rjh01]

Weather report for Canberra. Mostly sunny 23C. (http://weather.ninemsn.com.au/weather/national/NSW.asp?location=Canberra)

[Squishua]

Well, 249 replies is a few too many to read through right now, so I'm replying having read only 50 or so. If what I say has already been said, I'm sure someone will point it out!

Why not inject the appropriate muscles with an anesthetic so he cannot move them. Then see if he can make the yo-yo swing!

Actually, that might be kind of a bear for testing protocols. Someone to administer the injections, medical supervision, additional release forms.

Nah, too complicated (but I think it would prevent cheating).

-Squish