New Communist Textbooks Arrive In California Schools

[Jedi Knight]

In California, it is politically incorrect (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,85594,00.html) to use the term "founding fathers" because even though it is historically accurate that the founding fathers were a bunch of old white guys, school children must now be stripped of their American cultural heritage. "Founding fathers" are not really "founding fathers" anymore, according to a new communist line of textbooks for children.

As the Arabs do with their textbooks to teach their children that all Jews are "evil", now a program similar to that is attacking the idea of America in the minds of Californian school children.

American public schools--"Where being a child is culturally-dangerous, and where the idea of America is forbidden."

JK

[Sundog]

"Communist"? Is that the best you can do? What are you, tired today?

[NightG1]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
As the Arabs do with their textbooks to teach their children that all Jews are "evil", now a program similar to that is attacking the idea of America in the minds of Californian school children.
JK

Maybe you could explain how referring to the "Founding Fathers" as "The Framers" is "attacking the idea of America". Seems you neglected that part in your original post.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by NightG1


Maybe you could explain how referring to the "Founding Fathers" as "The Framers" is "attacking the idea of America". Seems you neglected that part in your original post.

"The Framers" is a given. They were the "carpenters" of our great and mighty-fine country, G-(-0).

Now, it is the "founding fathers" part that had the feminazi's panties all in a knot. They just couldn't bear the fact that the founding fathers weren't called the "founding mothers". It is anti-feminazi to call the founders of this country, although historically proven, the founding fathers. There weren't any bitches involved.

That is why American school children are being robbed of their heritage now and why America is now America in name only [AINO].

JK

[DrBenway]

"Framers" doesn't bother me. But the Specials' classic, "Concrete Jungle" doesn't quite have the same feeling as "Concrete Rainforest."

Sometimes one wants to use words with an edge and a few messy connotations.

[Clancie]

Jedi Knight,

Hmmmm....Who's the publisher of these books you object to? What grade levels are they for?

Which, if any, school districts have adopted them for use?

I don't think California is even choosing social studies books this year.

Anything more awful in them than the omission of the term "founding fathers"

And, while we're at it, where did you get this information from?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Clancy
Jedi Knight,

Hmmmm....Who's the publisher of these books you object to? What grade levels are they for?

Which, if any, school districts have adopted them for use?

I don't think California is even choosing social studies books this year.

Anything more awful in them than the omission of the term "founding fathers"

And, while we're at it, where did you get this information from?

Click on the link in the first post and read about it.

JK

[schplurg]

I heard about this earlier today.
Various snippets from the article, for those who didn't read it:And there will be no more reading about Mount Rushmore (search), where the faces of four U.S. presidents are carved into stone, because it appears to offend some American-Indian groups. [??? so it just doesn't exist now?]

Snowman? No more. Melt that image and replace with Snowperson. [gotta be kidding]

And if you think grandpa is a senior citizen, guess what? You’re wrong. That’s demeaning, according to the new standards. He is now simply an "older person."

The word "devil" has disappeared entirely, with no replacement.

The word "jungle" has been replaced with "rain forest."
[I don't believe all jungles are rainforests. Just exactly what the hell IS a rainforest?]

American Indians should not be depicted with long braids, in rural settings or on reservations. There are no suggestions on how they should be depicted, however. [Our government forces them onto reservations, now we're ashamed to admit it? Or what?]
......
The problem there, say historians, is that some American Indians did wear their hair in braids, and generally lived in rural settings before being relocated to reservations.

Why don't they worry about just getting the FACTS in these books correct? I will find an article I read recently that points out just how inaccurate our textbooks are. The errors are plentiful and "severe". It's very bad, and this is the crap they're most concerned about fixing? Censoring our books? What is happening to us? What a wonderful waste of money!

"I think our textbooks should to our greatest capacity be free of any type of stereotyping..."Ya right, showing historical pictures of Indians wearing braids and living in rural areas is stereotyping? It's called HISTORY!!! Man this pisses me off!

This is stupid! I wonder which "special interest" groups' lawyers are making all the money with this one? I hope the left and their politically correct "Band of Morons" "feel good" about this. This could be a dangerous thing...I mean I can see making some changes, but this is just ridiculous. It'll be home schooling for my kids...if they're going to learn twisted truths, I'd rather they learn MY twisted truths ;) :mad:

[Pyrrho]

It's so sad that so many in this great country are so upset by our differences that steps like this are taken to hide them. What's next? All crayons must be gray?

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
"Founding fathers" are not really "founding fathers" anymore, according to a new communist line of textbooks for children.
JK Do you ever read your own sources, or are you always in such a hurry that you don't?

The 'communist' line is, according to your own link, just as much a conservative phenomenon:

The changes, which reflect a wide range of political correctness (search), have been brought about by pressure groups on both sides of the political aisle, as both Democratic and Republican legislators have been lobbied. Semi-literate (adj): Person who cannot read - but, oh my god, how much they write .... :p

[Clancie]

Jedi Knight,

Here's a link for the California Dept of Education. I don't know what this Fox News person is talking about since, as you will see, California would normally only be reviewing textbooks for recommendation this year.

However, due to budget cuts, even that process has been stopped.

http://www.cde.ca.gov/cfir/hss/

As for the phrase "founding fathers", "snowman/snowperson", "hot dogs" etc....I've seen most of the history texts currently used K-12 in California and the later two have nothing to do with them anyway. As for "founding fathers" I can't remember the phrase being used in the current texts--and I can't remember it being greatly missed, either.

If that was the "big problem" with our textbooks, we'd be doing okay.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Bjorn
Do you ever read your own sources, or are you always in such a hurry that you don't?

The 'communist' line is, according to your own link, just as much a conservative phenomenon:

Semi-literate (adj): Person who cannot read - but, oh my god, how much they write .... :p

There are commie republicans just as there are commie democrats. Being a commie isn't limited to political party affiliation.

Take the "separation of church and state" commie activity in this country. The term "separation of church and state" was never intended to be used against the US Constitution, but it is. The term isn't even in the US Constitution, but gosh, it is in the commie Russian constitution.

You know, the greatest danger to America is an uninformed public. Not only are American adults being dumbed down, Americans kids are really being dumbed down.

JK

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


There are commie republicans just as there are commie democrats. Being a commie isn't limited to political party affiliation.

JK
Can you think of a commie republican as an example? Personally I think there are as many commies in the republican party as there are atheists in the vatican.. Your "reds under the beds" conspiracies have always been out there but....sheesh, commies in the republican party? being a commie isn't limited to political party affiliations? What the hell is "commie" then...If its not a political affiliation what on earth is it? a style of country music?

[jj]

Originally posted by The Fool

Can you think of a commie republican as an example? Personally I think there are as many commies in the republican party as there are atheists in the vatican.. Your "reds under the beds" conspiracies have always been out there but....sheesh, commies in the republican party? being a commie isn't limited to political party affiliations? What the hell is "commie" then...If its not a political affiliation what on earth is it? a style of country music?

Well, Fool, he says I'm a commie, remember? I'm more Republigun than Dummycrap, for sure.

But then again, you have to realize that it's Anakin Skywalker, temper, foolishness, lack of wisdom and balance and all, that we're talking about here.

[peptoabysmal]

LOL! "The Framers" ???

Catchy huh?

I've lived in California all my life and I can bear witness to the mind-numbing, degenerative disease known as liberalism.

To quote Jurassic Park II, "It always starts with oohs and aahs and ends with screaming".

Well, California isn't the only one anymore...
Check out this story. I'm an atheist, but this is just wrong.
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,84997,00.html

[DavidJames]

"I've lived in California all my life and I can bear witness to the mind-numbing, degenerative disease known as liberalism."

I was fortunate enough to be able to live in the bay area of CA for 3 years (moved away 5 years ago), I guess we've never met :). The only real issue I had was the handcuffs the voters put on their legislators with prop 13. The people I worked with and lived around were very nice. I commuted to Silicon Valley every day and found, in general, the drivers to be the most courteous of any of the places I've lived. The schools were middle of the road but going down due to funding. The teachers and administrators were doing the best they can.

"mind-numbing, degenerative disease known as liberalism." :rolleyes:

Just a thought, but maybe try to get to know people as individuals rather than labeling a good chunk of the population like that.

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Not only are American adults being dumbed down, Americans kids are really being dumbed down.

JK I hadn't expected you to admit it so openly .... :p

[Checkmite]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

Take the "separation of church and state" commie activity in this country. The term "separation of church and state" was never intended to be used against the US Constitution, but it is. The term isn't even in the US Constitution, but gosh, it is in the commie Russian constitution.
JK

It's a good thing the Founding Fathers decided not to have the government tell you what religion you will follow - because if they had, you probably wouldn't be allowed to be a "Jedi".

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by DavidJames
"I've lived in California all my life and I can bear witness to the mind-numbing, degenerative disease known as liberalism."

I was fortunate enough to be able to live in the bay area of CA for 3 years (moved away 5 years ago), I guess we've never met :). The only real issue I had was the handcuffs the voters put on their legislators with prop 13. The people I worked with and lived around were very nice. I commuted to Silicon Valley every day and found, in general, the drivers to be the most courteous of any of the places I've lived. The schools were middle of the road but going down due to funding. The teachers and administrators were doing the best they can.

"mind-numbing, degenerative disease known as liberalism." :rolleyes:

Just a thought, but maybe try to get to know people as individuals rather than labeling a good chunk of the population like that.

I live close to the bay area. We could have met. You weren't the guy who ran me off the road with that Hummer, were you?

"mind-numbing, degenerative disease known as liberalism" Roll your eyes all you want to. I stand by what I've said. In fact I like the the sound of it so much I may copyright it.

Here's an example of an advanced case of the disease:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030425/od_nm/odd_animals_dc_1

However studies have shown that there is hope if you quit early enough.

[jj]

Jedi, you remind me of a sheep that's got a bad case of scrapie. You keep repeating the same thing even though it hurts.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by jj
Jedi, you remind me of a sheep that's got a bad case of scrapie. You keep repeating the same thing even though it hurts.
He's just pushing the patriarchal fascist line.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
LOL! "The Framers" ???

Catchy huh?

I've lived in California all my life and I can bear witness to the mind-numbing, degenerative disease known as liberalism.

To quote Jurassic Park II, "It always starts with oohs and aahs and ends with screaming".

Well, California isn't the only one anymore...
Check out this story. I'm an atheist, but this is just wrong.
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,84997,00.html

Hey I like that saying..I am going to add it to my tag line. What was the guy's name that said that in the movie? It was that chaos theory guy.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi


It's a good thing the Founding Fathers decided not to have the government tell you what religion you will follow - because if they had, you probably wouldn't be allowed to be a "Jedi".

Yeah, that is what freedom of religion is all about, the cornerstone to our entire political system.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by The Fool

Can you think of a commie republican as an example? Personally I think there are as many commies in the republican party as there are atheists in the vatican.. Your "reds under the beds" conspiracies have always been out there but....sheesh, commies in the republican party? being a commie isn't limited to political party affiliations? What the hell is "commie" then...If its not a political affiliation what on earth is it? a style of country music?

Communism is an ideology, not a political party. Communists infiltrate political parties of all spectrums to seed them for destruction. It is the commie way.

JK

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Communism is an ideology, not a political party. Communists infiltrate political parties of all spectrums to seed them for destruction. It is the commie way.

JK
so what proportion of the Republican party are commie infiltrators. Do you know of any specifically, maybe you should tell the president?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by The Fool

so what proportion of the Republican party are commie infiltrators. Do you know of any specifically, maybe you should tell the president?

You just have to follow policy agendas. That is where they expose themselves.

JK

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
In California, it is politically incorrect (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,85594,00.html) to use the term "founding fathers" because even though it is historically accurate that the founding fathers were a bunch of old white guys, school children must now be stripped of their American cultural heritage. "Founding fathers" are not really "founding fathers" anymore, according to a new communist line of textbooks for children.

As the Arabs do with their textbooks to teach their children that all Jews are "evil", now a program similar to that is attacking the idea of America in the minds of Californian school children.

American public schools--"Where being a child is culturally-dangerous, and where the idea of America is forbidden."

JK

White male school children. Just a minor correction. No other school child has the cultural heritage you speak of.

[Smalso]

*Heavy sigh*

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


White male school children. Just a minor correction. No other school child has the cultural heritage you speak of.

I don't care who lives in this country as long as they abide by the laws.

Also, yes, a bunch of old white guys started the USA. That is historical truth--truth that school children in California will be deliberately dumbed down about.

JK

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


You just have to follow policy agendas. That is where they expose themselves.

JK
Time to revive HUAC, if he won't name names. Hard to imagine why he would be protecting the evil does.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


I don't care who lives in this country as long as they abide by the laws.

Also, yes, a bunch of old white guys started the USA. That is historical truth--truth that school children in California will be deliberately dumbed down about.

JK

You show an ignorance of your own country which is breath taking. If only I could say I have never seen anything like it.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


You show an ignorance of your own country which is breath taking. If only I could say I have never seen anything like it.

Huh? A bunch of old white guys DID start America as we know it today, unless you think the Indians did, which is a different argument altogether.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


You show an ignorance of your own country which is breath taking. If only I could say I have never seen anything like it.

Oh really? Gosh, the guy below is an old white guy and a founder of the USA, right? He was a "founding father".

http://www.earlyamerica.com/lives/franklin/portait.jpg

Let's look at all the founding fathers one at a time. Their pictures are why the left hates them and hates the idea of America. It is that truth, that historical truth that they hate.

JK

[Mr Manifesto]

America would not be the country it is today if the Native Americans had not been there.

I am also making another argument -one which may be too complicated for our friend to understand. America owes a lot to the African American slaves. It could never have been a country as powerful as it is today without this slavery.

To go further off topic- he probably also does not consider the input of women in World War II. His country could not have hoped to do what it did in this war without women.

I realise that this isn't entirely the subject of his thread- he is concerned mainly with who 'founded' the United States. But I am pretty sure that he thinks it is only the white males who have created the country the way it is today.

[Mr Manifesto]

Black founding fathers (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part2/2narr1.html) who America has forgotten.

I did not think there were slaves during the revolution. My mistake.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
America would not be the country it is today if the Native Americans had not been there.


That's definitely arguable. Being from Oklahoma and having many Native American friends I'm probably more than usually aware of their plight... but it appears to me that we have rather run roughshod over them to create America, as if they weren't there at all. I'm not defending the fact for a moment but American Indian culture hasn't really had an effect one way or the other.


I am also making another argument -one which may be too complicated for our friend to understand. America owes a lot to the African American slaves. It could never have been a country as powerful as it is today without this slavery.



Slavery ended with the Civil War. America was not a powerful country until at least half a century later. No connection, unless you can show one.



To go further off topic- he probably also does not consider the input of women in World War II. His country could not have hoped to do what it did in this war without women.



Come on. dude. Don't make me defend JK. The subject of what women contribute now has absolutely nothing to do with what was going on in 1776.

[Mr Manifesto]

The link again of those who helped found America, and have been forgotten because they were black (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part2/2narr1.html)

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
Black founding fathers (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part2/2narr1.html) who America has forgotten.

I did not think there were slaves during the revolution. My mistake.

Which slaves signed the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence?

JK

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
The link again of those who helped found America, and have been forgotten because they were black (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part2/2narr1.html)

How did any of these most admirable people "help found America"? They weren't in government, they had no influence in government, they influenced no policies. Are we to list every admirable person alive at the time as being one of the "Founding Parents?"

[Mr Manifesto]

Jedi Knight:

"...school children must now be stripped of their American cultural heritage."

Myself:

"White male school children. Just a minor correction. No other school child has the cultural heritage you speak of."

Jedi Knight:

"Also, yes, a bunch of old white guys started the USA. That is historical truth--truth that school children in California will be deliberately dumbed down about."

The part I particularly have a problem with is 'a bunch of old white guys started the USA'. This is wrong.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
Jedi Knight:


The part I particularly have a problem with is 'a bunch of old white guys started the USA'. This is wrong.

You've yet to show why, IMHO.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
Jedi Knight:

"...school children must now be stripped of their American cultural heritage."

Myself:

"White male school children. Just a minor correction. No other school child has the cultural heritage you speak of."

Jedi Knight:

"Also, yes, a bunch of old white guys started the USA. That is historical truth--truth that school children in California will be deliberately dumbed down about."

The part I particularly have a problem with is 'a bunch of old white guys started the USA'. This is wrong.

Which slaves signed the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence? I thought it was just a bunch of "old white guys", but hey, maybe everything I was taught was wrong and you have new leftist information to prove history was something other than it was.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Is this "founding father" a white guy?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/images/tj3.gif

JK

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Which slaves signed the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence? I thought it was just a bunch of "old white guys", but hey, maybe everything I was taught was wrong and you have new leftist information to prove history was something other than it was.

JK

There is more to the foundation of the United States than the mere signing of a piece of paper.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Sundog


You've yet to show why, IMHO.

Then click the link. It is all there.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


There is more to the foundation of the United States than the mere signing of a piece of paper.

Uh, no there is not. A written constitution is the founding of a country. It is the creation of the sovereign.

Now tell me, what slaves signed the US Constitution?

JK

[Sundog]

Let me pour oil on troubled waters in the best bedwetting, liberal, cryptosocialist tradition.

Mr Man, you are saying that all sorts of people were in the great mix that eventually became America, and that all sorts of people contributed and gave of themselves and their unique gifts to form the country we now know, not just old white men. Fair enough?

JK is saying that old white men most definitely did lay down the roadmap for what America was to be. He's right.

(edited to add bedwetting)

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Uh, no there is not. A written constitution is the founding of a country. It is the creation of the sovereign.

Now tell me, what slaves signed the US Constitution?

JK

The written constitution was the manifestation of ideas, principals and passions. If you take the paper and burn it you will still have America. Just as if you smashed Liberty Bell in two you will still have liberty because the bell is only metal and true liberty cannot be destroyed so easily.

But America could not have become the great country it is now without the help of the African Americans and -while I cannot cite any examples- I strongly believe not without the help of the Native Americans. The constitution is nothing -parchment and ink. One day it will be destroyed. But the ideas that made America will never be destoryed. Those ideas came from more than the founding fathers. You owe your liberty in part to the African American slaves.

You should give them thanks. But I imagine they will not be surprised not to hear it from you.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


The written constitution was the manifestation of ideas, principals and passions. If you take the paper and burn it you will still have America.

No way. The constitution IS America.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Which slaves signed the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence?

JK
Only with their blood.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by subgenius

Only with their blood.

They were more like protected assistants, right? I try to think positive about such matters in history.

JK

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


They were more like protected assistants, right? I try to think positive about such matters in history.

JK
So does the Holocaust denial crowd.

"Protected assistants." Bet all your African American friends appreciate your views.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
You should give them thanks. But I imagine they will not be surprised not to hear it from you.

I would love to thank them but there were no slaves since 1864.

So unless you know a psychic channeler, it doesn't look like I will be able to thank them, will I?

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
The constitution is nothing -parchment and ink. One day it will be destroyed.

You're nuts man. Simply nuts. The day the US Constitution goes is the day this country becomes uninhabitable.

JK

[Smalso]

If not for the founding fathers' mothers, there would have been no founding fathers.

[Clancie]

Jedi Knight,

I see you chose to ignore my link showing that California isn't even able to select new textbooks this year, due to money problems. They've even stopped looking at them. And the ones we have now are almost 7 years old.

So your FOX NEWS source is false. Understand?

Further, I'm curious if you've ever seen a California history textbook, you know, the ones that you think are so "liberal" or "commie" or whatever the label you like for something that doesn't include the propaganda you'd like to see?

[Clancie]

One more question....

I must know: do you actually think that our history textbooksdon't include all those white males who started the nation????

How, exactly, do you suppose people could teach children about the American Revolution and the Constitution without them??????

What do you think the K-12 history books look like now?

Chapter after chapter about Betsy Ross and Crispus Attucks?

Sorry, but your complaint is ridiculous, in the extreme.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Uh, no there is not. A written constitution is the founding of a country. It is the creation of the sovereign.

Now tell me, what slaves signed the US Constitution?

JK

As if they would be allowed to.
What an ass.

[dmarker]

Old white men may have started the country but the rest of us finished it.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


You're nuts man. Simply nuts. The day the US Constitution goes is the day this country becomes uninhabitable.

JK

You do not understand me. I am saying that the constitution is only parchment and ink. The document itself is not important. It is only a symbol. It is the ideas behind it which are important. These ideas were developed and fought for by more than just the founding fathers- a bunch of old white men.

This comes back to why they are referred to in your textbook as 'framers' instead of 'founding fathers'. The former term accurately describes what these people did- put the ideas down on a piece of paper in a symbollic act. The 'fathers' though -the people who created America- are more than white males. They are the black males and women who also fought for America.

Destroy the paper and you still have America.

[Mr Manifesto]

Sorry to dig this topic up again but I would like Jedi Knight to see my last response to ensure he understands what I mean when I speak of the destruction of the constitution. That is- the actual paper itself not the constitution as a concept.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Sundog


I predict he'd say pretty much what I'm going to say.

The constitution IS America. This amazing document, with remarkably few changes, has guided this country through well over 200 years. The stability of America itself is a DIRECT result of the genius of this document.

It is not a piece of paper; it is a brilliant blueprint for a republic that has proven time and time again the wisdom of the Founding Fathers.

To deny the place the myriad different kinds of people of America had in forming this country would be absurd. But it is equally absurd not to recognize these old white men for the remarkable document they drew up - one that defined a kind of country never before seen on the face of the Earth.

(See you guys, I AM a patriot.)

Burn the blueprint for the White House. Does the White House collapse?

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Sundog


Burn the Constitution. Does the Constitution disappear?

If you think America could suddenly abandon the Constitution and still be America. I know a guy named Ashcroft that you'd probably get along with just fine.

That is the point I have been trying to make. The actual document with the physical signatures is not important. The ideas embodied in the document are what really matter. That is why it is not correct to say that the people who actually signed and ratified the constitution are America's founding fathers. That title belongs to anyone- white, black, male, female- who helped create America. The people who wrote and signed the document should only be referred to as the people who engaged in the physical act of creating the document. Or 'framers' for short.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Clancy
Jedi Knight,

I see you chose to ignore my link showing that California isn't even able to select new textbooks this year, due to money problems. They've even stopped looking at them. And the ones we have now are almost 7 years old.

So your FOX NEWS source is false. Understand?

Further, I'm curious if you've ever seen a California history textbook, you know, the ones that you think are so "liberal" or "commie" or whatever the label you like for something that doesn't include the propaganda you'd like to see?



Clancy the Fox News story is correct. They surveyed existing textbooks, not new ones. That leftist brainwashing of children in those perverse textbooks has been going on for years. It is nothing "new".

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker
Old white men may have started the country but the rest of us finished it.

Well, it is not finished off yet but the radical left is working on it.

JK

[subgenius]

So...better keep it in the hands of old white men.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


That is the point I have been trying to make. The actual document with the physical signatures is not important. The ideas embodied in the document are what really matter. That is why it is not correct to say that the people who actually signed and ratified the constitution are America's founding fathers. That title belongs to anyone- white, black, male, female- who helped create America. The people who wrote and signed the document should only be referred to as the people who engaged in the physical act of creating the document. Or 'framers' for short.

You're nuts. Burn the constitution and watch as millions of heavily armed men dispose of the those in this country advocating its burning.

The US Constitution is the sovereign, the foundation of all law in this country. If you burn it and say it is meaningless, then there is "no law" and acts to restore it will take place, potentially costing millions of lives.

In such a circumstance, I would have no choice but to side with restoring the sovereign as my loyal duty as a patriotic American, and would probably assume a leadership role as a General Officer leading tens of thousands of men loyal to me in its defense.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by subgenius
So...better keep it in the hands of old white men.

Old white guys created it--that was the historical fact of this discussion.

JK

[blackadder65738]

Look, folks. I think you are wasting your time replying to this thread at all. JK's source is Fox News, and I think we know what they're about. If not, I will clarify: Fox News is a lot of right-wing, goose-stepping douchebags.

And, he uses the word feminazi. Well, that's a word that seems to have been coined by the Pigman of hate radio, Rush Limbaugh (I don't care if he's thin now, he'll always be the Pigman). For a definition of Rush see the Fox definition above. So, this thread is a waste of time for anybody who isn't a right-wing freak, because JK and his ilk don't need facts, just venom.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by blackadder65738
Look, folks. I think you are wasting your time replying to this thread at all. JK's source is Fox News, and I think we know what they're about. If not, I will clarify: Fox News is a lot of right-wing, goose-stepping douchebags.

And, he uses the word feminazi. Well, that's a word that seems to have been coined by the Pigman of hate radio, Rush Limbaugh (I don't care if he's thin now, he'll always be the Pigman). For a definition of Rush see the Fox definition above. So, this thread is a waste of time for anybody who isn't a right-wing freak, because JK and his ilk don't need facts, just venom.
A big welcome. Tell it like it is.:D

[subgenius]

Hey JK, How about a word about a murdered mother to be?
Any empathy?
She do anything that deserved death?

[Clancie]

Clancy the Fox News story is correct. They surveyed existing textbooks, not new ones. That leftist brainwashing of children in those perverse textbooks has been going on for years. It is nothing "new".

They're just now criticizing six year old textbooks? Why? Because they don't all include references to hot dogs and snowmen?

My question remains on the table: Have you ever seen any of the California history textbooks?

The books are chosen from several different publishers with quite different approaches.

I'm suprised Fox News didn't mention which publisher they find so offensive. (I don't actually see any indication they know).

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Sundog


Well, I respectfully couldn't disagree more. Human beings came up with that brilliant document, which you really don't seem to see the importance of IMHO. It wasn't sent down to us from Heaven. Real, actual brilliant men hammered it out of fierce disagreements and hard work.

To deny these men their proper place in American history - as the Founding Fathers whose brilliant concepts guide all our ideas and conceptions of what America is - is completely ridiculous. Should we not single out Newton and Einstein because it denies the contributions of the thousands of other scientists who helped create modern-day science?

What you propose smacks of ingratitude, if not downright revisionism.

I suspect that we simply disagree about the CENTRAL importance the Constitution has in America. Consider this: As far apart as JK and I are on most things, we consider the Constitution equally sacrosanct. What does that tell you about the brilliance of the politically-incorrect old white men who wrote it?

Ingratitude? You know I'm Australian don't you?

You seem to place too much significance in the document. You are suffering from magical thinking. By your logic you could burn the Bible and God Himself will descend from Heaven and burn you with His divine fury.

But of course if you burn the Bible that doesn't happen at all. The Bible is only paper. The ideas are what is important. So it is with the constitution.

As for your comment that because you and Jedi Knight agree and you supposedly have different views I have two things to say.

For all of your talk that you are different to Jedi Knight so far I have seen you agree more than disagree with him.

Even if you and Jedi were poles apart because you agree with him in this instance doesn't make you any more right. In fact from what I have seen of Jedi and from what others opinions of him appear to be you would do well to wonder if in fact you are correct at all when you are agreeing with him, no?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by subgenius
Hey JK, How about a word about a murdered mother to be?
Any empathy?
She do anything that deserved death?

Of course I have empathy for Lacy. She was a pregnant woman, the icon of what I think the female role is. She is the last person on this planet that I want to see wind up at the bottom of the ocean. Just her walking around town was enough to demand a platoon of infantry guarding her, considering she chose the most anti-feminist thing ever (having a baby).

JK

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


You're nuts. Burn the constitution and watch as millions of heavily armed men dispose of the those in this country advocating its burning.

The US Constitution is the sovereign, the foundation of all law in this country. If you burn it and say it is meaningless, then there is "no law" and acts to restore it will take place, potentially costing millions of lives.

In such a circumstance, I would have no choice but to side with restoring the sovereign as my loyal duty as a patriotic American, and would probably assume a leadership role as a General Officer leading tens of thousands of men loyal to me in its defense.

JK

Does anyone who knows anything about America have anything to say about this? If someone were to burn the constitution does it become null and void until a new one is written?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


Does anyone who knows anything about America have anything to say about this? If someone were to burn the constitution does it become null and void until a new one is written?

Without a constitution, there is only a state of nature. In a state of nature, nothing but killing takes place.

JK

[DrBenway]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
Does anyone who knows anything about America have anything to say about this? If someone were to burn the constitution does it become null and void until a new one is written?
No worries. I think we keep a few photocopies around.

[Clancie]

originally posted by Jedi Knight

They surveyed existing textbooks, not new ones.

Okay. Then the title of your thread is wrong.

It should be "New Communist Textbooks Arrived In Schools Six Years Ago...Maybe"

And why is "framers" leftist? Why are hotdogs and snowmen "rightist"? Your labels for all this is baffling, to say the least

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Clancy


Okay. Then the title of your thread is wrong.

It should be "New Communist Textbooks Arrived In Schools Six Years Ago...Maybe"

And why is "framers" leftist? Why are hotdogs and snowmen "rightist"? Your labels for all this is baffling, to say the least

Well gosh, they are "baffling" to you maybe, but not for Michael Savage who discussed this topic on his show today for his audience of tens of millions.

To you, normal is "baffling", and "history" is what the radical leftists in California decide to spin it into, huh.

http://ads.wnd.com/adbanners/savage-wnd-numb1-nyt-f-125.gif

JK