What is your opinion on life metaphors?

[kurious_kathy]

I have heard it said that our outlook on life is what determines how we view life and what predicts what we do or don't believe, Do you believe this?
If so why or why not? Do you have one that you would be willing to share?

[Mandy]

Your outlook on life and your view on life are the same thing.

I would say that your outlook on life could be subject to change based on your life experiences. Someone's outlook at the age of 25 may not be quite the same at the age of 45.

What we believe or don't believe could also be subject to the same type of change depending on what we've experienced in life.

If one is reasonably open-minded, life experiences should tend to make a difference in your world-view throughout your lifetime.

[Marquis de Carabas]

I prefer life similes myself. Such as:

Life is like a box of chocolates; it costs way too damned much and usually by the time you find the piece you really want, some other fugger has already poked it around a bit and it's filled with germs, and when it's gone, you wish you'd savoured it a bit more and maybe not wiped your hand on the back of your pants cause now you look like you s:Dt yourself.

[Ducky]

Fristly kathy, thank you for posting a thoughtful and well presented way.

Secondly I agree with Mandy.

Thirdly thank you for not preaching.

[kurious_kathy]

Your outlook on life and your view on life are the same thing.

I would say that your outlook on life could be subject to change based on your life experiences. Someone's outlook at the age of 25 may not be quite the same at the age of 45.

What we believe or don't believe could also be subject to the same type of change depending on what we've experienced in life.

If one is reasonably open-minded, life experiences should tend to make a difference in your world-view throughout your lifetime.
Ok. that sounds pretty accurate but do you think it's hard sometimes for people to change the way we look at life? I can definately see that my view may change at times but as far as a life metaphor I think this tends to be a little more based on our mindset.

Maybe it's just because of what we go through, or is it our own belief system.
(Like what affects our intellect, feelings, ect...?)
I think age definately affectsmany things as well. Why else would old people tend to get more grouchy? Just kidding!!

[Ducky]

Ok. that sounds pretty accurate but do you think it's hard sometimes for people to change the way we look at life? I can definately see that my view may change at times but as far as a life metaphor I think this tends to be a little more based on our mindset.

Maybe it's just because of what we go through, or is it our own belief system.
(Like what affects our intellect, feelings, ect...?)
I think age definately affectsmany things as well. Why else would old people tend to get more grouchy? Just kidding!!


It depends on who they are. Some people are willing to re-evaluate their beliefs rather readily. For most, it takes alot longer, and is much harder. Our belief system is shaped by what we go through, but not controlled by it.

In fact, for those that are not tied to specific dogmatic beliefs it is rather easy to re-evaluate things in our life (at least it was for me.) The idea is simple: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. (Carl Sagan said that.) After that, it's simply examining the evidence and drawing a logical conclusion.

[Dr Adequate]

I have heard it said that our outlook on life is what determines how we view life ... Surely "our outlook on life", and "how we view life" are more or less the same thing?

I don't see what distinction you're trying to draw here.

[Dogdoctor]

The way I see it, your outlook or view of life creates a filter that filters all of your input in accordance with those outlooks or views. So if you believe God is responsible for everything then when you look around you will see that this is true. If you have no opinion about God then you will see a different world. However regardless of your outlook the world is as it is and the only thing your outlook changes is your perception of that world. This is why much of the philosophy of science developed, to attempt to overcome prejudiced perceptions and create reliable information unshaded by perceptions .

[kurious_kathy]

Surely "our outlook on life", and "how we view life" are more or less the same thing?

I don't see what distinction you're trying to draw here.
Well like if my life metaphor is say....I think life is a battle. Does this have effect on others? Are they picking up on that vipe? Or am I projecting that in what I say and do? How does our life metaphor affect our thinking?
I heard Rick Warren mention this in his book somewhere called the Purpose Driven Life and he completes a section on this topic like...if your life metaphor is life is a battle, then winning will be very important.

Does it pull me in a certain direction? How does this get played out in my life? How much of this is because of what I've been through in life? Does the reality of what I went through in the past affect my outlook on life and how I chose to live?

Rick Warren does other examples but I've got to look it back up in the book.
I just find this whole concept very interesting.

[kurious_kathy]

It depends on who they are. Some people are willing to re-evaluate their beliefs rather readily. For most, it takes alot longer, and is much harder. Our belief system is shaped by what we go through, but not controlled by it.

In fact, for those that are not tied to specific dogmatic beliefs it is rather easy to re-evaluate things in our life (at least it was for me.) The idea is simple: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. (Carl Sagan said that.) After that, it's simply examining the evidence and drawing a logical conclusion. I think I see what your saying. It seems our phsychy is constantly challenged to try to be open to change. That's why I have to ask if it changes automatically or do we work at it? Do you think we really have a choice in how we view things? Or what our life metaphor becomes?

[kurious_kathy]

I prefer life similes myself. Such as:

Life is like a box of chocolates; . Didn't Forest Gump say that?
I think he finshed it differently than you did though.

[Dr Adequate]

Well like if my life metaphor is say....I think life is a battle. Does this have effect on others? Are they picking up on that vipe? Or am I projecting that in what I say and do? How does our life metaphor affect our thinking? Hmm...

It is going to be true that if you ask someone "give me a good metaphor for life", then that answer will tell you something about their personalities. But certainly not everything! It would be a mistake --- it would be pop psychology --- to then go and interpret all their actions in terms of their "life metaphor". It's all to easy to impose your own ideas on some one else's psychology.

I heard Rick Warren mention this in his book somewhere called the Purpose Driven Life and he completes a section on this topic like...if your life metaphor is life is a battle, then winning will be very important.
It seems plausible that there'd be a link. But which is cause and which is effect?

You write: "if your life metaphor is life is a battle, then winning will be very important", as though the metaphor came first and then the attitude. But it seems more likely the other way round: if someone is very competitive and aggressive, then a battle is a very good metaphor for his life, and that would be why he'd use the metaphor.

I might add that the way someone metaphrises life might depend on their present mood. A man who describes life as a battle in a bad mood might compare it to a sporting event in a different mood. Now I come to think of it, the book of Ecclesiastes uses both those metaphors for life in the same sentence: "The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong". We don't take this to mean that the author had a multiple personality disorder.

For these reasons I think that knowing how someone would describe life metaphorically might give you some insight into their personality, or their state of mind at that time. But you shouldn't push it too far. There are lots and lots of other questions you can ask about someone besides "what is their metaphor for life"?

[Tricky]

I prefer life similes myself. Such as:

Life is like a box of chocolates; it costs way too damned much and usually by the time you find the piece you really want, some other fugger has already poked it around a bit and it's filled with germs, and when it's gone, you wish you'd savoured it a bit more and maybe not wiped your hand on the back of your pants cause now you look like you s:Dt yourself.
Life is like a s:Dt sandwich: The more bread you have, the less s:Dt you have to eat.

[meg]

I have heard it said that our outlook on life is what determines how we view life and what predicts what we do or don't believe, Do you believe this?
If so why or why not? Do you have one that you would be willing to share?

I believe your outlook on life and particularly your outlook about yourself very much affect how you view the world and your own place in it.

For example, if you have a "victim" mentality, if you are somewhat stuck on the hurt feelings and emotions that have been caused by being ill treated by others, then you may put more significance on the smaller rejections in life that happen to anyone. Perhaps if you are rejected for a job you apply for, you think something to the effect of "Of course I didn't get it. I never get what I want." However, if you have a stronger sense of self esteem, the job rejection is not that big of a concern to you. Perhaps it is even considered an opportunity to learn something new or improve your skills so that you might be better able to get the next job opportunity.

Same thing for the whole "sinner" concept, and this is one of the big problems I have with most religions. If you truly believe deep down that you are a sinner, then you believe that you do not have a right to the good things in life. Or that you do not have a right to be happy. You are supposed to feel guilty all the time, and work on penance, - which of course, is usually decided by someone else, so you never know if you've really done enough. If you do not get something in life that you desired, you are supposed to assume that it is punishment for being say greedy, or envious, or promiscuous, or pick your sin. No matter what, if you believe you are a sinner, the answer will always be "I am not good enough."

If, however, you reject the whole notion of "worthiness", you strive for a healthy self esteem, and you assume always that you are as worthy or good as any other human being on the planet, (as well as no better) I believe you are better able to negotiate and reap the rewards that our society has to offer.

Those people that believe that they "can do anything" are the ones that go out and do great things. Those people that believe that "this is their lot in life" stay where they are, whether they like it or not.

My thoughts, anyway.

Meg

[kurious_kathy]

Hmm...

For these reasons I think that knowing how someone would describe life metaphorically might give you some insight into their personality, or their state of mind at that time. But you shouldn't push it too far. There are lots and lots of other questions you can ask about someone besides "what is their metaphor for life"? That's probably true to a certain extent, but in essence speaking of a life metaphor tells me it's a long term vison we have. I question if we all have one, and can or does it underneath it all affect our path in life?

Like if we have a life metaphor as to "life is a puzzle, then we spend most of our time trying to make all the peices come together so we can have an end result? Thus it becomes important to try to finish what we start?

Does this create a place where our philosophy on life and our theology come together? These things have a lasting affect on us wouldn't you say?

[Ryokan]

WTF is a 'life metaphor', and why would I need one?

[Ausmerican]

Meg..
Well said!

[Dogdoctor]

Those kinds of metaphors are crutches that people use to avoid thinking so people who live by metaphor miss out a lot in life due to a narrowed view of the world.

[Moochie]

Heh heh heh... It's a soap opera. And we're all underpaid.

M.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Those kinds of metaphors are crutches that people use to avoid thinking so people who live by metaphor miss out a lot in life due to a narrowed view of the world.
Life is a crutch people use to keep from falling in six-feet deep holes.

[Dogdoctor]

Life is a crutch people use to keep from falling in six-feet deep holes.
Heh heh heh... It's a soap opera. And we're all underpaid.

Of course some people use metaphors for humor

[kurious_kathy]

Those kinds of metaphors are crutches that people use to avoid thinking so people who live by metaphor miss out a lot in life due to a narrowed view of the world. I don't think we miss out on anything to consinder what's the meaning of metaphors.
The Jewish culture tends to speak more from a metophorical point of view. As we westerners don't ,thus it creates a gap in our communication to not try to understand it better. I think understanding the different types of metaphors is useful in our thought process and communication.
Identfying these things should stimulate growth and communcation, not limit us.

[Ducky]

I don't think we miss out on anything to consinder what's the meaning of metaphors.
The Jewish culture tends to speak more from a metophorical point of view. As we westerners don't ,thus it creates a gap in our communication to not try to understand it better. I think understanding the different types of metaphors is useful in our thought process and communication.
Identfying these things should stimulate growth and communcation, not limit us.


Ok, now in the above statement you make two assertions that need evidence to establish their validity before we can accept them as true.

1) please provide evidence that "the Jewish culture" tends to speak more in metaphors. I have many Jewish friends and I don't see this statement as particularly true in a sweeping sense.

2) Please provide evidence that westerners don't, and that this causes a communication gap.

[rharbers]

Life is a crutch people use to keep from falling in six-feet deep holes.

Metaphors be with you!

[Dogdoctor]

I don't think we miss out on anything to consinder what's the meaning of metaphors.
The Jewish culture tends to speak more from a metophorical point of view. As we westerners don't ,thus it creates a gap in our communication to not try to understand it better. I think understanding the different types of metaphors is useful in our thought process and communication.
Identfying these things should stimulate growth and communcation, not limit us.
Let's look at your metaphor "life is a battle". Is life a battle? No. If you think it is then that is what you see and you will have a hard time recognizing things in life which aren't a battle.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Metaphors be with you!
Puns are a crutch used to beat innocent people (myself, for instance) about the head.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Let's look at your metaphor "life is a battle". Is life a battle? No. If you think it is then that is what you see and you will have a hard time recognizing things in life which aren't a battle.
Correct. Like the old saying goes, when all you have is libido, everything looks like a nail.

[Genesius]

Correct. Like the old saying goes, when all you have is libido, everything looks like a nail.

:hb:

For that one, you deserve to have someone grab that G-string in your avatar and yank upward hard!

[Genesius]

Hey, that was my 222nd post - I'm 1/3 of the way to becoming the Antichrist!

[kalen]

Life is an outhouse.

You dig it at first, but ends up filled with a load of c**p.

[rharbers]

Puns are a crutch used to beat innocent people (myself, for instance) about the head.

And I stole it from William Safire!

[tkingdoll]

I don't think we miss out on anything to consinder what's the meaning of metaphors.
The Jewish culture tends to speak more from a metophorical point of view. As we westerners don't ,thus it creates a gap in our communication to not try to understand it better. I think understanding the different types of metaphors is useful in our thought process and communication.
Identfying these things should stimulate growth and communcation, not limit us.

And while you're answering Fowlsounds post, please explain why "Jewish culture" and "westerners" are different in your view. I know thousands of Jews, all of them immersed in Jewish culture and all of them Westerners.

[epepke]

What's a metaphor?

It's for talking about something.

Thank you, I'll be here all month.

[kurious_kathy]

And while you're answering Fowlsounds post, please explain why "Jewish culture" and "westerners" are different in your view. I know thousands of Jews, all of them immersed in Jewish culture and all of them Westerners.
I have studied some of the faith lesson series that Focus on the Family produced with Historian Teacher Ray VanderLaan. He had explained this very good and I'll try to share what he says, but if you are really interested in more detail I would recommend you not only try to view his studies, but also there are lots of people that understand the difference in comparing Hebrew thinking verses Greek thinking. I am just starting to take an interest in these more myself. heres a link if you are interested..http://www.tfrc.org/vanderlaanbio.htm

Ray VanderLaan explains it like this...Western thinking is different in that we like truth presented in words and definitions, we use bullet points and like lists, Where as the Eastern way is more that they illistrate through pictures and metaphors, they use more places and structures in there communication.

An Easterner may say something like , God is my rock, my shepherd, or living water...A Westerner may describe God as powerful, loving, or all knowing.

[kurious_kathy]

1) please provide evidence that "the Jewish culture" tends to speak more in metaphors. I have many Jewish friends and I don't see this statement as particularly true in a sweeping sense.
Do they speak Hebrew? or were they born in the U.S.? If they were raised in the U.S. then they are probably already adapted to Western thinking and this is not likely any hinderence in our communication, but I'm not sure how it might affect us if we are speaking to someone from Isreal. I guess it just puts a differnt light on our thinking in general, just asking myself.

[kmortis]

Do they speak Hebrew? or were they born in the U.S.? If they were raised in the U.S. then they are probably already adapted to Western thinking and this is not likely any hinderence in our communication, but I'm not sure how it might affect us if we are speaking to someone from Isreal. I guess it just puts a differnt light on our thinking in general, just asking myself.
I happen to know an American, who's a naturalized Isreaelie Jew. He's one of the more concrete thinkers that I know. So, with my single test sample, I can tell you that not all Isralie Jews are metaphoical thinkers.


Object lesson: I couldn't say that Israelie Jews are all concrete thinkers any more than you can say that they aren't. I've found the counter example to your point (therefore disproving your premise), but, notice that I did NOT calim that my single example was necessarily indicative of all Israelie Jews. I can claim him to counter you. This is an example of not using a particular to prove a general (which is a logical fallacy).

ETA: All my spelling mistakes are my personal form of copyright protection...HAHAHAHAHA

[Ducky]

Do they speak Hebrew? or were they born in the U.S.? If they were raised in the U.S. then they are probably already adapted to Western thinking and this is not likely any hinderence in our communication, but I'm not sure how it might affect us if we are speaking to someone from Isreal. I guess it just puts a differnt light on our thinking in general, just asking myself.


Actually, one of my very close friends was born in california and raised in israel to the age of 14. Another very close friend was born in israel, and continues to live there (and just finished her tours with the IDF.) They both speak hebrew and arabic fluently. In fact, the very conservative jewish friends I have in the US speak fluent hebrew and arabic, and I can't say they are more or less metaphorical thinking than me.

Now, this is where you need to provide evidence other than shift the burden to me, like you have tried to do here. I have offered you direct answers, but yet you ahve not shown evidence that jewish people think more metaphorically.

[Ducky]

I have studied some of the faith lesson series that Focus on the Family produced with Historian Teacher Ray VanderLaan. He had explained this very good and I'll try to share what he says, but if you are really interested in more detail I would recommend you not only try to view his studies, but also there are lots of people that understand the difference in comparing Hebrew thinking verses Greek thinking. I am just starting to take an interest in these more myself. heres a link if you are interested..http://www.tfrc.org/vanderlaanbio.htm

Ray VanderLaan explains it like this...Western thinking is different in that we like truth presented in words and definitions, we use bullet points and like lists, Where as the Eastern way is more that they illistrate through pictures and metaphors, they use more places and structures in there communication.

An Easterner may say something like , God is my rock, my shepherd, or living water...A Westerner may describe God as powerful, loving, or all knowing.


Well, as someone who knows many people both in the middle east and here in america, I can definitavely say as far as I have experience with people of different cultures, Ray Vanderlaan doesn't have a f***ing clue what he's talking about.

This is where he and you need to show evidence for those claims.

[Kopji]

I have heard it said that our outlook on life is what determines how we view life and what predicts what we do or don't believe, Do you believe this?
If so why or why not? Do you have one that you would be willing to share?

Tolerance is a characteristic that arises from living a cosmopolitan lifestyle: daring to leave the narrow confines of your own provincial or narrow cultural outlook. If we grew up in a completely isolated "Jewish", "Christian", (or for that matter "atheist") culture, we might never gain this characteristic of tolerance.

I tend to reject Rick Warren's advocacy of being "driven", I've seen him on tv and he does not seem to make a lot of sense unless you already agree with him.

A more apt metaphor for life is sailing. The rudder does not drive the boat, but guides where it goes. Sails are set to respond to the changing winds. Sometimes we can only get where we are going by compromising.

Our philosophy or religious views are that way too. We are oriented not driven.

[geetarmoore]

I have heard it said that our outlook on life is what determines how we view life and what predicts what we do or don't believe, Do you believe this?


This is bass ackwards...

What we believe determines how we view (our outlook on) life.

To say it the way you have puts the cart before the horse.

[David Swidler]

Do they speak Hebrew? or were they born in the U.S.? If they were raised in the U.S. then they are probably already adapted to Western thinking and this is not likely any hinderence in our communication, but I'm not sure how it might affect us if we are speaking to someone from Isreal. I guess it just puts a differnt light on our thinking in general, just asking myself.

I speak Hebrew. I was born in the U.S. I live in Israel. There's no more metaphorical thinking going on here than anywhere else. Where do you get this stuff?

On second thought, don't tell me. When it comes to certain sources, ignorance really is bliss.

[Tricky]

How appropriate.
http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert20060121046712.jpg

[Dogdoctor]

One thing that having certain outlooks on life such as "Life is a battle" bring about is called a 'self fulfilling prophecy." If you imagine life is a battle and you are fighting, your actions will cause others to fight back and thus creating the situation of "life is a battle" when if you did not try to fight no one else would fight either (except the ones with the life is a battle view).

[AnotherSillyAlias]

One thing that having certain outlooks on life such as "Life is a battle" bring about is called a 'self fulfilling prophecy." If you imagine life is a battle and you are fighting, your actions will cause others to fight back and thus creating the situation of "life is a battle" when if you did not try to fight no one else would fight either (except the ones with the life is a battle view).

I'd go along with this however I think circumstances can also cause you to have a certain outlook on life. I also wonder if genetics might have something to do with it. I am NOT making any claims here about this, just wondering so don't go asking for evidence anyone, OK?

We know, of course, that genetics controls stuff like your height and eye colour and so on, but does it also control intelligence and maybe have something to do with how you look at life. Is your outlook on life nature or nurture?

[kurious_kathy]

What's a metaphor?

It's for talking about something.

Thank you, I'll be here all month.
Definition of Metaphor as found at dictionary.com
A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison, as in “a sea of troubles” or “All the world's a stage” (Shakespeare).
One thing conceived as representing another; a symbol: “Hollywood has always been an irresistible, prefabricated metaphor for the crass, the materialistic, the shallow, and the craven” (Neal Gabler).
The way you see your life shapes your life, says author Rick Warren. He also states the way we define life determines our destiny. Perspective will influence how we invest our time, spend our money, use our talents, and value relationships.
So if we ask others how do they see their life, do we discover that there are as many different answers to that question as there are people? If I asked how you picture your life, what image would come to mind?
In Mr. Warrens book, “The Purpose Driven Life,” he gives some examples of what some people’s life metaphor may be? Here are just a few examples…”life is a ten speed bicycle with gears we never use”…”life is a game of cards: You have to play the hand you are dealt.”…” life is a carousel: Sometimes your up, sometimes your down, and sometimes you just go round and round.”
He also mentions we might have a unspoken life metaphor which influences our life more than we realize. It determines our expectations, our values, our relationships, our goals, and our priorities. He gives an example also as…”if we think life is a party, our priority will be having fun”…or if we see life as a race, we will probably value speed and will probably be in a hurry much of the time.”
He mentions we should ask ourselves what is our view of life? Are we basing our life on a faulty life metaphor? To fulfill the purposes God made us for, we will have to challenge conventional wisdom and replace it with the biblical metaphors of life. He pinpoints the three things…Life is a Test…Life is a temporary assignment …and Life is a trust. This whole concept I find very intriguing!

Romans 12:2 … And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

[Dogdoctor]

Definition of Metaphor as found at dictionary.com
A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison, as in “a sea of troubles” or “All the world's a stage” (Shakespeare).
One thing conceived as representing another; a symbol: “Hollywood has always been an irresistible, prefabricated metaphor for the crass, the materialistic, the shallow, and the craven” (Neal Gabler).
The way you see your life shapes your life, says author Rick Warren. He also states the way we define life determines our destiny. Perspective will influence how we invest our time, spend our money, use our talents, and value relationships.
So if we ask others how do they see their life, do we discover that there are as many different answers to that question as there are people? If I asked how you picture your life, what image would come to mind?
In Mr. Warrens book, “The Purpose Driven Life,” he gives some examples of what some people’s life metaphor may be? Here are just a few examples…”life is a ten speed bicycle with gears we never use”…”life is a game of cards: You have to play the hand you are dealt.”…” life is a carousel: Sometimes your up, sometimes your down, and sometimes you just go round and round.”
He also mentions we might have a unspoken life metaphor which influences our life more than we realize. It determines our expectations, our values, our relationships, our goals, and our priorities. He gives an example also as…”if we think life is a party, our priority will be having fun”…or if we see life as a race, we will probably value speed and will probably be in a hurry much of the time.”
He mentions we should ask ourselves what is our view of life? Are we basing our life on a faulty life metaphor? To fulfill the purposes God made us for, we will have to challenge conventional wisdom and replace it with the biblical metaphors of life. He pinpoints the three things…Life is a Test…Life is a temporary assignment …and Life is a trust. This whole concept I find very intriguing!

Romans 12:2 … And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
Ok fine for you but for me all metaphors are not accurate.

[kurious_kathy]

Ok fine for you but for me all metaphors are not accurate.I guess I can kind of understand that.
I asked my husband this morning if he had one and he said he did not think so. I asked him what about," life is like a song, you just want to share it with others" since he is a guitarist/ song writer in his spare time. He wasn't sure after I had mentioned that. I think it's very thought provoking myself.

[AnotherSillyAlias]

I guess I can kind of understand that.
I asked my husband this morning if he had one and he said he did not think so. I asked him what about," life is like a song, you just want to share it with others" since he is a guitarist/ song writer in his spare time. He wasn't sure after I had mentioned that. I think it's very thought provoking myself.

Since you can make up metaphors about almost anything I don't really see how they are significant. They might be amusing or interesting or even particularly apt, but I don't see how they are especially significant in any way. You might consider them thought provoking, or you might not, doesn't mean much, except to you.

[Dogdoctor]

I'd go along with this however I think circumstances can also cause you to have a certain outlook on life. I also wonder if genetics might have something to do with it. I am NOT making any claims here about this, just wondering so don't go asking for evidence anyone, OK?

We know, of course, that genetics controls stuff like your height and eye colour and so on, but does it also control intelligence and maybe have something to do with how you look at life. Is your outlook on life nature or nurture?
All people are a result of their genetics since everyone has genes that limit and shape their possible behaviors. Like wise all people are exposed to things which shape or limit the possible behaviors determined by their genetics. No one is purely the result of nurture or nature. We are all a result of the combination of the two. Personally I don't think it is such an important topic at this point. We need more information to separate the etiology of our behaviors. Till we have that it is mostly speculation.

[Dogdoctor]

Since you can make up metaphors about almost anything I don't really see how they are significant. They might be amusing or interesting or even particularly apt, but I don't see how they are especially significant in any way. You might consider them thought provoking, or you might not, doesn't mean much, except to you.
I agree and beyond that they present a limit on your perception of the world. So while they may be interesting, thought provoking etc they limit your ability to see the world as it is.

[kurious_kathy]

I agree and beyond that they present a limit on your perception of the world. So while they may be interesting, thought provoking etc they limit your ability to see the world as it is. I am not sure I can see it like that, I see it as a benefit in understanding how another person is? Basically where they are coming from.

Don't you think it could be helpful as a communcation tool when we want to understand or connect with others?

[AnotherSillyAlias]

I am not sure I can see it like that, I see it as a benefit in understanding how another person is? Basically where they are coming from.



Why do you need metaphors? If you want to know where I'm coming from just ask me. I won't need any metaphors or euphamisms or such, I'll just tell you quite plainly where I'm coming from. Like Dog said, metaphors could quite possibly cloud things rather than explain them.

[Dogdoctor]

I am not sure I can see it like that, I see it as a benefit in understanding how another person is? Basically where they are coming from.

Don't you think it could be helpful as a communcation tool when we want to understand or connect with others?
For people who have difficulty coming to grips with the world perhaps they are important but they are a step away from reality since they are all inaccurate. I already explained how the "life is a battle" metaphor is limiting or did you not understand that?

[veggie doll]

I don't think I have a 'life metaphor' I use constantly.

For the past four years, however, my life motto has been that 'spit solves everything.' And it's never let me down. :)

[Genesius]

I think that great philosopher Tom Lehrer said it best:

Life is like a sewer: what you get out of it depends on what you put into it.

[UrsulaV]

I am not sure I can see it like that, I see it as a benefit in understanding how another person is? Basically where they are coming from.

I think that would only work if you're listening to their metaphor--your husband, in your example, didn't have one, and wasn't sure about the one you made up, so that metaphor tells us nothing about him.

And it also only works if the person's metaphor is accurate, and they're not being a smartass, and they've actually thought about it, and they care one way or the other.

I can tell you that my metaphor is "Life is like a squirrel gumbo," and you may read all kinds of things into that, but I just pulled that out of the air at random because there's a squirrel on my birdfeeder at the moment. It doesn't actually tell you anything about where I'm coming from, (except perhaps that I am in a region with squirrels) and I rather doubt you can make any predictions about my behavior based on it.

I think these are things that sound clever and profound, but generally don't really mean much of anything.

[Tricky]

I guess I can kind of understand that.
I asked my husband this morning if he had one and he said he did not think so. I asked him what about," life is like a song, you just want to share it with others" since he is a guitarist/ song writer in his spare time. He wasn't sure after I had mentioned that. I think it's very thought provoking myself.
It is indeed very thought provoking. Lets think about it some more.

Life is like a song because not very many people can make one worth a damn, so most people just wind up singing one some other person made and most of them aren't even any good at singing some other person's "life". Then of course, half the time, even the people who can make a good one can't perform for beans, so they wind up selling it to some brainless music whore with perfect hair who makes it into a hit and the guy who wrote it is unknown.

Or worse, you sells your "life" to a record company who uses it crassly and doesn't give a ratsass about the guy who wrote it unless he has perfect hair and can sell some records for them. And then the vast majority of "lives" get sent to the refuse bin no matter how good they are because there is only a limited market for them and everybody just downloads them from "Kazaa" anyway. Plus you create a good "life" and some jerk with perfect hair "discovers" it, but then rewrites it so that it doesn't sound anything like what you intended or mean what you had meant.

Or maybe you get lucky and you get to share your "life" with a lot of people and you're performing in front of a crowd and some drunk keeps yelling "Play Free Bird" before throwing up all over your sound board. Then the manager tell you that you didn't sell enough tickets so he's not giving you what he promised and your week-long gig is cancelled and you wind up having to hock your guitar and hitchhike home in the dead of winter.

Yep. Life is like a song.

[Kopji]

He pinpoints the three things…Life is a Test…Life is a temporary assignment …and Life is a trust. This whole concept I find very intriguing!


These are not metaphors. What I mean is, if you say life is a 'test', 'temporary assignment', or 'trust' - that's not using metaphors. maybe the book uses slightly different wording.

Metaphors are abstract and by definition not precise. I would also say that they should be descriptive not proscriptive.

If I use the metaphor "life is like sailing a small boat", it does not mean that I am going to check everything I do to make sure I am matching the metaphor I've chosen. That would be using a metaphor backward.

That's what I mean by being driven, and why I object to books like 'purpose driven life'. A life philosophy should serve to orient us rather than drive us.

To be oriented is to use metaphors in a descriptive way: Rather than constantly fighting against all the things that life brings, I implement a strategy that includes compromise. Life consists of both long term and short term goals, and the techniques for achieving them are often very different. It does no good to whine about what comes in life, or feel sorry, or blame it on others. Hey that's like sailing.

So a good metaphor is ambiguous, but useful if it helps us understand the "non metaphor", or leads to new or creative solutions and ideas.
Maybe there are other ideas around sailing that may give some insight.

This is using metaphors to lead us, but not be driven. Metaphors are not taskmasters we serve, they are an occasional mentor that serves us to orient and guide.

We discover purpose by living, it is not something we arrived with.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Life is like this thread. There's a lot of noise, some hot air, a few jokes, but nothing much gets done.

[kurious_kathy]

Yep. Life is like a song. What kind of music do you listen to? I myself have enjoyed music all my life. And I have liked all kinds of music. But at different times I have listended to different kinds.
As like what I now enjoy...Contemporary Christian Music. Is it the music or the words that make the difference?

[Tricky]

What kind of music do you listen to? I myself have enjoyed music all my life. And I have liked all kinds of music. But at different times I have listended to different kinds.
As like what I now enjoy...Contemporary Christian Music. Is it the music or the words that make the difference?
I grew up in the 50's and 60's so I like a lot of music of those days, including folk music (which is mostly the kind I write), but I also like rock-and-roll, classical, showtunes, some jazz, a little less country and even less rap/hip hop. There have been a couple of CCM songs I heard that were not bad tunes, so long as you don't listen to the words. (I do get amused when Christians claim they are being discriminated against, but they have their own TV channels, radio stations and even singing groups. Boy, I wish they would discriminate against atheists like that.)

Words and music are both important, but for me, it is the words that make it a song. Without that, it's just a tune. (Probably that is because I am crappy at writing music.)

[Jas]

I asked him what about," life is like a song, you just want to share it with others" since he is a guitarist/ song writer in his spare time. He wasn't sure after I had mentioned that. I think it's very thought provoking myself.
Hmmm

I'm thinking that some well-meaning individual also shared this particular pearl of wisdom with Britney Spears and Jessica Simpson, unfortunately.

[kurious_kathy]

I grew up in the 50's and 60's so I like a lot of music of those days, including folk music (which is mostly the kind I write), but I also like rock-and-roll, classical, showtunes, some jazz, a little less country and even less rap/hip hop. There have been a couple of CCM songs I heard that were not bad tunes, so long as you don't listen to the words. (I do get amused when Christians claim they are being discriminated against, but they have their own TV channels, radio stations and even singing groups. Boy, I wish they would discriminate against atheists like that.)

Words and music are both important, but for me, it is the words that make it a song. Without that, it's just a tune. (Probably that is because I am crappy at writing music.)
I think you have a very good sense of humor, sometimes. Music does seem to be like a universal language. Is that a metaphor?

[Tricky]

I think you have a very good sense of humor, sometimes. Music does seem to be like a universal language. Is that a metaphor?
Thank you. I do like to laugh.

In my experience, the best metaphors are the unstated ones. You don't have to say "so-and-so is like something else" (technically that is a simile), or even say something to the effect of, "Your kiss is the gentle pouting pressure of a Crisco-coated bicycle tube upon my cheek". It can be unstated, but understood, like "As the dawn lifted the gauzy stars from his eyes, he stared in wonderment at the bruised and drooling python in his shorts."

Check out the Bulwar-Lytton Bad Fiction (http://www.bulwer-lytton.com/lyttony.htm) site for some truly wretched metaphors.

[Ducky]

Or maybe you get lucky and you get to share your "life" with a lot of people and you're performing in front of a crowd and some drunk keeps yelling "Play Free Bird" before throwing up all over your sound board. Then the manager tell you that you didn't sell enough tickets so he's not giving you what he promised and your week-long gig is cancelled and you wind up having to hock your guitar and hitchhike home in the dead of winter.

Yep. Life is like a song.



You followed my tour?

[Tricky]

You followed my tour?
Who do you think it was throwing up on your sound board?

[Ducky]

Who do you think it was throwing up on your sound board?


Bastard!


I will bill you the 2 grand for another Mackie 24 channel mixer.

[kmortis]

Bastard!


I will bill you the 2 grand for another Mackie 24 channel mixer.
Oh, that reminds me. I told the story of Mikey in annother thread. The follow-on to what I've told about him so far is that when the house we worked at went bust, he came in and flipped the BE-FU$$$NG-AUTIFUL 24x2 sound board with full FX rack over the balcony to fall the 60' and crash on the seats below.

I cried.

It happend almost 15 years ago and I still get weepy over it.

[Metullus]

Bastard!


I will bill you the 2 grand for another Mackie 24 channel mixer.
Isn't that the one you hocked to get out of that "contributing to the delinquency" beef? Just a reminder...

[Ducky]

Oh, that reminds me. I told the story of Mikey in annother thread. The follow-on to what I've told about him so far is that when the house we worked at went bust, he came in and flipped the BE-FU$$$NG-AUTIFUL 24x2 sound board with full FX rack over the balcony to fall the 60' and crash on the seats below.

I cried.

It happend almost 15 years ago and I still get weepy over it.



This is a capitol offense. He should be killed via a repeated beating with the crappiest piece of Berhinger equipment we can find.

[Ducky]

Isn't that the one you hocked to get out of that "contributing to the delinquency" beef? Just a reminder...



Nono, that one wasn't a mackie board. That was a Yamaha 16x4x2 rackmount board.

And I swear she said she was 18.

[Metullus]

Nono, that one wasn't a mackie board. That was a Yamaha 16x4x2 rackmount board.

And I swear she said she was 18.
I thought she looked darling in her Brownie uniform, though. I know you did...

[Tricky]

Bastard!


I will bill you the 2 grand for another Mackie 24 channel mixer.
Hey, I was just trying to help your sound guy out. There were so many knobs and he looked so busy, but when I reached for the one that looked like "balance", he punched me in the gut. It's your own damn fault for hiring high-strung roadies.

[Ducky]

Hey, I was just trying to help your sound guy out. There were so many knobs and he looked so busy, but when I reached for the one that looked like "balance", he punched me in the gut. It's your own damn fault for hiring high-strung roadies.



I hated that guy. He kept turning up the "suck" knob.

[Tricky]

I hated that guy. He kept turning up the "suck" knob.
Ah. The former sound man for AC/DC.

[Cosmo]

I hated that guy. He kept turning up the "suck" knob.

This one goes to eleven!

[kurious_kathy]

Who do you think it was throwing up on your sound board? Birds of a feather sure do flock together!

[Pauliesonne]

Birds of a feather sure do flock together!

flock together, Birds of a feather sure do

how do you like my " yodaspin " ?

[Iacchus]

I have heard it said that our outlook on life is what determines how we view life and what predicts what we do or don't believe, Do you believe this?

If so why or why not? Do you have one that you would be willing to share?Is the mind just a metaphor? ... Or, is everything just a metaphor of the mind? ;)

[Piscivore]

Is the mind just a metaphor? ... Or, is everything just a metaphor of the mind? ;)

Yes, no.

[Iacchus]

Is the mind just a metaphor? ... Or, is everything just a metaphor of the mind? ;)
Yes, no.So, the mind is not real but, everything else is? How do you know?

[Jas]

So, the mind is not real but, everything else is? How do you know?
Because you're an idiot.

[rharbers]

Because you're an idiot.

Calm yourself!

[Jas]

Hey, I'm just stating fact.

[kurious_kathy]

Is the mind just a metaphor? ... Or, is everything just a metaphor of the mind? ;)
I think some of us communicate or speak to each other often through metaphors or a metaphoric type language. Like this morning I said to my hubby after he told me he did not sleep well last night, I turned around and said I went out like a light! This is a metaphor that gives more of a description of how I slept.

But in the subject of this thread about whether people think they have a life metaphor (something that underneath it all makes us tick?) then this makes me question why or how we appraoch things in life in a certain way?

[Marquis de Carabas]

At its core, all language is metaphor.

[Iacchus]

At its core, all language is metaphor.Yes.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Damn, I thought you had me on ignore, and now I find out, all at once, that not only is this untrue, but that you and I are in agreement on something? Hello, nadir.

[Genesius]

Damn, I thought you had me on ignore, and now I find out, all at once, that not only is this untrue, but that you and I are in agreement on something? Hello, nadir.

There, there. . .

:rub:

There's a lot of this going around. I actually found myself agreeing with something Iamme wrote on another thread.

Of course, agreeing with Iacchus is another thing entirely. I hope to never sink so low. . .

:p

[AnotherSillyAlias]

Of course, agreeing with Iacchus is another thing entirely. I hope to never sink so low. . .

:p

Iacchus' latest thread, wherein he says:

"Yes"

is probably something that even I, under certain circumstances, could probably agree with. Hard to believe, true, but possible.

[Iacchus]

Everything that we think, say and do is filtered through the mind. So in that sense everying "is" a metaphor ... because it is something other than what we are actually looking at. So, does that make the mind itself a metaphor? Perhaps so. But then again, this is the only means we have of determining whether this is so. So, if we're going to accept anything as real, we have to begin with the mind don't you think?

[AnotherSillyAlias]

Everything that we think, say and do is filtered through the mind. So in that sense everying "is" a metaphore ... because it is something other than we are actually looking at. So, does that make the mind itself a metaphore? Perhaps so. But then again, this is the only means we have of determining whether this is so.

Perhaps you could tell me what a metaphore is, I can't find it in a dictionary.

Are you, perhaps, talking about a metapore?

[Iacchus]

Perhaps you could tell me what a metaphore is, I can't find it in a dictionary.

Are you, perhaps, talking about a metapore?Sorry, try dropping the "e" at the end. This is my mistake, as I haven't gotten used to looking at it without the "e," yet. It's one of those words that I haven't used very often.

[CheeseDude]

So, the mind is not real but, everything else is? How do you know?
You have seen The Matrix a few too many times. You don't know but what we observe is all we have so it doesn't matter.

[kurious_kathy]

Everything that we think, say and do is filtered through the mind. So in that sense everying "is" a metaphor ... because it is something other than what we are actually looking at. So, does that make the mind itself a metaphor? Perhaps so. But then again, this is the only means we have of determining whether this is so. So, if we're going to accept anything as real, we have to begin with the mind don't you think?
I also question if we have a life metaphor how does it direct us. Does it affect what drives our life?
In Rick Warrens book again on day 3 he mentions things that drive our lives like, guilt, materialism,anger, fear, or a need for approval. These things seem to be things we all deal with in one way or another and I think for myself if I do have a life metaphor like,"life is a battle," then in his book the Purpose Driven Life, Rick says my life metaphor will affect me in this way, "I will think winning is very important." But when I look at myself I don't see myself as a competitive person, in fact I really turn away from conflicts on a personal level. So how does this affect other things in my life? Everyones heard the statement we choose our battles, right? Well it even affects me in my life in reguards to wanting to choose a life living by faith. I would not say it is always easy to live by faith, but I do find peace by doing so.

[Iacchus]

You have seen The Matrix a few too many times. You don't know but what we observe is all we have so it doesn't matter.What, would that be one and a half times too many then? Actually, I only saw part of it on commercial TV about two years after it came out, and then I rented the video the next day. And that's it. I will have to admit though that, according to what everyone had been saying about it, that it lived up to its billing.

[bruto]

I've been reading Tristram Shandy, which puts me in a peculiarly digressive mood for obvious reasons, and just found the following, which, in true Shandean manner, is almost relevant:

...for that wit and judgment in this world never go together; inasmuch as they are two operations differing from each other as wide as east from west - So, says Locke - so are farting and hiccuping, say I. But in answer to this, Didius the great church lawyer, in his code de fartendi et illustrandi fallacius, doth maintain and make fully appear, That an illustration is no argument - nor do I maintain the wiping of a looking-glass clean to be a syllogism; - but you all, may it please your worships, see the better for it - so that the main good these things do is only to clarify the understanindg, previous to the application of the argument itself, in order to free it from any little motes, or specks of opacular matter, which, if left swimming therein, might hinder a conception and spoil all.

Which, if I may make so bold as to interpret the learned Mr. Sterne, is a way of saying, in short, don't forget that a metaphor is just a metaphor.

Ok, excuse me now, because I'm up to page 237 and the hero of the story has finally (just now) actually been born. There's a small possibility that within the next couple of hundred pages a plot will begin to form.

[meg]

I would not say it is always easy to live by faith, but I do find peace by doing so.

I'm curious, Kathy. What is so hard about living by faith? And why does doing that bring you peace?

Thanks,
Meg

[kurious_kathy]

I'm curious, Kathy. What is so hard about living by faith? And why does doing that bring you peace?

Thanks,
Meg
Well I use to be a person that based most descisions on feelings and info., mostly feelings. What I found was living my life in the past based on how I felt got me way down the wrong path. Now I am learning a new way. I am trying to put my faith into action which is different than just living by my old carnal nature.
The peace that comes from learning to not only believe God, but trust in Him, well I can't really put it in words. There is a comfort I find when I rest in Him.
I can't solve the problems of this world, but I trust that one day if not now God will make things new and right again.

[CheeseDude]

I trust that one day if not now God will make things new and right again.

I hope that people will try to fix things by themselves without waiting for some supernatural being to take care of everything for them.

[meg]

"Well I use to be a person that based most descisions on feelings and info., mostly feelings. What I found was living my life in the past based on how I felt got me way down the wrong path. Now I am learning a new way. I am trying to put my faith into action which is different than just living by my old carnal nature.
The peace that comes from learning to not only believe God, but trust in Him, well I can't really put it in words. There is a comfort I find when I rest in Him.
I can't solve the problems of this world, but I trust that one day if not now God will make things new and right again."

I hope you don't think I'm baiting you here, Kathy, because I'm really not, but I have to say I really don't see much difference between your past and now. I mean, in the past you made most of your decisions based on your various feelings. And now you base your decisions on feelings of peace and comfort. The only thing different here is which feelings you base your actions on, right? You've chosen to reject your old feelings and instead just focus on some new ones.

I guess I think if you really want to make a change in your life, why not try basing your actions on your brain, instead? Really think them through, rather than just go with what feels good. I mean peace and comfort are just dandy, but really, are they that much different than horny or high?

You ever heard the old saying, a mind is a terrible thing to waste?


Meg

[kurious_kathy]

Meg I don't base everything on my personal feelings now, I use to. I think studying scripture not only challeges me to think but apply those moral principles in my life. Do you think the world would be a better place if more people valued those things too? I do. I guess this is why I try to talk about it with others.

[Ducky]

Meg I don't base everything on my personal feelings now, I use to.


While I won't argue the point that you used to, I sure as hell take issue with your claim that you don't base everything on your personal feelings now.

Your posting on this forum provides ample evidence to the contrary. You in fact base EVERYTHING on your feelings of your relationship with your god. From why people get cancer to where they will spend the afterlife, every judgement you have put forth upon us on this forum is based completely in your feelings about god, and your feelings that your belief in god offers you a position of superiority both morally and literally. To say otherwise is nothing short of a lie.

[HeyLeroy]

Meg I don't base everything on my personal feelings now, I use to. I think studying scripture not only challeges me to think but apply those moral principles in my life. Do you think the world would be a better place if more people valued those things too? I do. I guess this is why I try to talk about it with others.

Might I suggest opening yourself to studying things besides scripture? Basing your life on one book... to me, that's just head-in-the-sand thinking. Do you leave the house? Drive a car? How did you learn to use your computer? Did you study the manual? Kathy, as a believer, you must realize that your god gave you this great big beautiful (usually) world. Might I suggest that you take your nose out of the bible for a bit, go outside, and experience it?

[meg]

Meg I don't base everything on my personal feelings now, I use to. I think studying scripture not only challeges me to think but apply those moral principles in my life. Do you think the world would be a better place if more people valued those things too? I do. I guess this is why I try to talk about it with others.


Hi kathy,

I do indeed think the world would be a better place if more people thought more seriously about morals. However, I think there is far greater value when a person decides for his or herself the reasoning and value of a particular moral rather than taking them all in a lump from a book.

When a person *chooses* to behave in accordance with a certain moral because they have thought it through and feel it is best for themselves, and for society as a whole, it encourages a healthy sense of self-respect as well as a sense of connectedness with community.

When a person just works to apply the morals that are dictated by someone else, pretty much because they are afraid if they don't they'll go to hell, well, it really isn't of much value to society, in my opinion. That behavior is only of value to the those that wish to have power over you. Namely your church authority figures and the authors of the christian books you like to buy.

When you say you study the scriptures, does that mean you are just trying to understand them? Or are you really studying them, looking at who wrote them and when, and where the story came from, and how many different versions there were originally, how many different translations since, etc?

Meg