Deepak Chopra asserts the "subtle body" based on evidence

[Beelzebubba]

Deepak Chopra's latest venture into "woo" tries to assert that all branches of mysticism have an "invisible connection". What is disturbing about this is his assertion that these things are fact - but beyond the realm of science to currently understand. He again uses the old Western mystical canard of spouting this is ancient wisdom that has long been understood in the East.

(it is found on Huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/how-we-are-connected_b_14309.html - perhaps someone who can post links will find this and post the link as a favor)

To quote:
"Whatever is invisible has little standing in a materialistic culture where reality is defined by science. Therefore, an understanding about subtler levels of reality has spread one person at a time."

The emminent individuals who have explored this "subtle body" one person at a time include Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, W.B. Yeats, Vaclav Havel - scientist all.

[Zep]

And, no doubt, that emminent "scientist" and crackpot, Victor Zammit (http://www.victorzammit.com), who is a disciple and booster for Chopra, and also pushes this line of argument (such as it is).

[AnotherSillyAlias]

Here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/how-we-are-connected_b_14309.html) is the link.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/how-we-are-connected_b_14309.html

(I'm just posting it so you can get to it.)

[PixyMisa]

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was a doctor, so it is perhaps arguable that he was some sort of scientist. William Butler Yeats was a poet with no scientifc training whatsoever, and Vaclav Havel is a playwright and possibly the only person ever to be president of two countries (Czechoslovakia and then the Czech Republic) but certainly no scientist.

So, same old BS from Deepak.

[Kochanski]

I seriously think we need to establish the "Quantum Police" a group of people whose sole job is to arrest people who hijack Quantum Mechanics to support their crackpot ideas. They think that by using quantum mechanics (which most of the public doesn't understand) they can sound scientific and support their nonsense. It makes me so angry :mad:

[AnotherSillyAlias]

I seriously think we need to establish the "Quantum Police" a group of people whose sole job is to arrest people who hijack Quantum Mechanics to support their crackpot ideas. They think that by using quantum mechanics (which most of the public doesn't understand) they can sound scientific and support their nonsense. It makes me so angry :mad:

Well, why do you think they chose QM? It has lots of strange sounding words and things. Sounds extremely scientific to 90% of the poulation.

All you need to do is drop something like this:

Hermitian operators in the Hilbert space associated with a system represent physical quantities, and their eigenvalues represent the possible results of measurements of those quantities.

... in amongst your other junk and it sounds really impressive.

You could sell almost anything with that.

[SpaceFluffer]

Whatever you're selling I want it. Here are my house keys.

[Kochanski]

Well, why do you think they chose QM? It has lots of strange sounding words and things. Sounds extremely scientific to 90% of the poulation.

All you need to do is drop something like this:

Hermitian operators in the Hilbert space associated with a system represent physical quantities, and their eigenvalues represent the possible results of measurements of those quantities.

... in amongst your other junk and it sounds really impressive.

You could sell almost anything with that.

I know, that is why I said we need Quantum Police, arrest them for misuse of physics.

[Ducky]

I know, that is why I said we need Quantum Police, arrest them for misuse of physics.



I fully support this police force.

...and authorize the use of deadly force. :mad:

[vbloke]

I'd like to sign up for the QP.
Do I get a flashy uniform and badge?

[Darat]

And the motto of the QM police should be "Show us the math!"

[DeVega]

Well, as Terry Pratchett observes - If you don't understand it, it's probably Quantum (sic)

[The Don]

The Quantum Police - Serving you Discretely ?

[brodski]

I fully support this police force.

...and authorize the use of deadly force. :mad:
People have asked what the punishment is for breaking "the laws of physics", well now we know, you get locked in a box with a really p*ssed off cat, by Vbloke, whilst Fowlsound cheers him on!

[drfrank]

The Quantum Police - Serving you Discretely ?

OK, that really did make me laugh out loud :)

Personally, I think the quantum physics explanation for the Golden Sound Intelligent Chip has to one of the most amusing that I've heard.

[Kochanski]

oooh, if I had time before TAM 4 I would make up a badge to give out to people there, but I don't think I will have time to put something spiffy together before it. Any suggestions for the badge, LMK at TAM, this could be fun. We could even create wanted posters and post on a website :D

[Ririon]

Quantum mechanics - the dreams stuff is made of.

[Almo]

Yeah! This is a great idea! :)

[LW]

I seriously think we need to establish the "Quantum Police" a group of people whose sole job is to arrest people who hijack Quantum Mechanics to support their crackpot ideas.

The Casey and Andy webcomic already has Quantum Cop. This is his first appearance (http://galactanet.com/comic/39.htm).

[Kochanski]

The Casey and Andy webcomic already has Quantum Cop. This is his first appearance (http://galactanet.com/comic/39.htm).

Oh poo, but we are more concerned with the woos that misuse physics for their crackpot ideas. I say we still go for it:p

[Ririon]

The Casey and Andy webcomic already has Quantum Cop. This is his first appearance (http://galactanet.com/comic/39.htm).
That seems more like a relativity cop, but she could be a physics cop, of course.

[phildonnia]

I fully support this police force.

...and authorize the use of deadly force. :mad:

As punishment, violators are put in a box with some deadly gas, etc.

[Kochanski]

As punishment, violators are put in a box with some deadly gas, etc.

Nah, I like this one best:
"People have asked what the punishment is for breaking "the laws of physics", well now we know, you get locked in a box with a really p*ssed off cat, by Vbloke, whilst Fowlsound cheers him on!"

[hgc]

Well, why do you think they chose QM? It has lots of strange sounding words and things. Sounds extremely scientific to 90% of the poulation.

All you need to do is drop something like this:

Hermitian operators in the Hilbert space associated with a system represent physical quantities, and their eigenvalues represent the possible results of measurements of those quantities.

... in amongst your other junk and it sounds really impressive.

You could sell almost anything with that.Sounds like a case of fashionable nonsense.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0312195451.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.gif

[Kochanski]

Well QM isn't nonsense, but since most people don't understand it at all it is really easy for the woos out there to hijack it for their own purposes. And it then becomes a case of "monkey see, monkey do". The more monkeys it works for the more will try and use it to justify their own woo ideas. And the more monkeys who use it the more people who have no idea what QM is about think that they must be right because so many people are talking about it.

That is why I say we need the Quantum Police ;)

[vIQleS]

The Quantum Police - Serving you Discretely ?

And who will put the bell on the cat?

Seriously, this is a great idea, a website that looks at quantum type claims and explains in simple, easy to understand terms why they're rubbish...

I don't have the skills or knowledge to do this, but I bet a lot of people here do...

So when can we expect to see the first article? :p

[vbloke]

I volunteer to make such a site, if I can expect volunteers to send in articles and explanations

[brettDbass]

I volunteer to make such a site, if I can expect volunteers to send in articles and explanations
As tempting as that is, I don't have quite the specialist knowledge required. Damn.

[Kochanski]

Well, I can do graphics for the site, but I don't have the physics background to debunk these claims either. So, can anyone offer the technical expertise needed? I think we really need some Quantum Police.

[Aepervius]

Quantum physic was what i studied :). Well i tried to do a doctorat on it, but for various reason I failed. I still have my "basic" book (cohen-Tanoudji) and the training to understand them, although this has been 10 years i did not open 'em...

[Nucular]

I don't have the wherewithall to be a quantum policeman. I'll be a quantum mechanic though.

"Can you fix it?"
"probably..."

:rolleyes:

[JPK]

Good afternoon.

I don't have the wherewithall to be a quantum policeman. I'll be a quantum mechanic though.

"Can you fix it?"
"probably..."

:rolleyes: I actually run an autoparts store. My crew and I often joke about opening up an Alternative Auto Repair Shop. All sorts of fun things like Chiropratic Frame adjustments, Chi Alignments, Homeopathic Fuel Additives, and the like. One day I suggested to a customer that what their Saab really needed was for him to play more Abba songs on the stereo. In fact I suggested we open up a service to do Car-o-scopes, a service that will check the production dates of a perticular car to see if it would be compatible with perspective buyers and what exactly the stars say about the future of this car. And for those who really loved that first car they had, perhaps we can make contact with it from that great scrapyard in the sky. We would of course only employ Quantum Mechanics.

JPK

[Nucular]

I actually run an autoparts store. My crew and I often joke about opening up an Alternative Auto Repair Shop. All sorts of fun things like Chiropratic Frame adjustments, Chi Alignments, Homeopathic Fuel Additives, and the like. One day I suggested to a customer that what their Saab really needed was for him to play more Abba songs on the stereo. In fact I suggested we open up a service to do Car-o-scopes, a service that will check the production dates of a perticular car to see if it would be compatible with perspective buyers and what exactly the stars say about the future of this car. And for those who really loved that first car they had, perhaps we can make contact with it from that great scrapyard in the sky. We would of course only employ Quantum Mechanics.
Wonderful - then I hereby apply for a job :) I don't have any actual qualifications in this area, but in the world of Alternative Auto Repairs that's considered a badge of honour.

Also, I know how fast your car goes now - but I'm not sure where it is...

[gurugeorge]

Deepak Chopra's latest venture into "woo" tries to assert that all branches of mysticism have an "invisible connection". What is disturbing about this is his assertion that these things are fact - but beyond the realm of science to currently understand. He again uses the old Western mystical canard of spouting this is ancient wisdom that has long been understood in the East.

(it is found on Huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/how-we-are-connected_b_14309.html - perhaps someone who can post links will find this and post the link as a favor)

To quote:
"Whatever is invisible has little standing in a materialistic culture where reality is defined by science. Therefore, an understanding about subtler levels of reality has spread one person at a time."

The emminent individuals who have explored this "subtle body" one person at a time include Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, W.B. Yeats, Vaclav Havel - scientist all.

I think there's something to the "subtle body" as explored by Susan Blackmore - it's some kind of kinaesthetic feeling, combined with the kind of imagery you get in lucid dreaming, such that you have a sense of being outside your body in a "body of light".

There's no question that people experience this sort of thing - something that feels like a "subtle body". The problem is how is that feeling, that sense, to be interpreted?

[RichardR]

Good afternoon.

I actually run an autoparts store. My crew and I often joke about opening up an Alternative Auto Repair Shop. All sorts of fun things like Chiropratic Frame adjustments, Chi Alignments, Homeopathic Fuel Additives, and the like.
There already is a field of alternative engineering (http://www.theness.com/articles.asp?id=2).

[CFLarsen]

I seriously think we need to establish the "Quantum Police" a group of people whose sole job is to arrest people who hijack Quantum Mechanics to support their crackpot ideas. They think that by using quantum mechanics (which most of the public doesn't understand) they can sound scientific and support their nonsense. It makes me so angry :mad:

Some of us at TAM4 ran into a genuine woo, who - among other things - talked about "quantum mechanics".

Immediately, I was on to him. I grabbed a piece of paper and a pen, and asked him to write down the calculations.

It makes no sense to talk about QM, unless you show the math.

He couldn't do it. To which I replied: "Then you have no argument."

He disappeared.

That's what we need to do: Demand that they show the math behind it. It's an easy way to take the heat out of that argument.

[Kochanski]

Some of us at TAM4 ran into a genuine woo, who - among other things - talked about "quantum mechanics".

Immediately, I was on to him. I grabbed a piece of paper and a pen, and asked him to write down the calculations.

It makes no sense to talk about QM, unless you show the math.

He couldn't do it. To which I replied: "Then you have no argument."

He disappeared.

That's what we need to do: Demand that they show the math behind it. It's an easy way to take the heat out of that argument.

Oh bother, I seemed to have missed him, wish I had encountered him.

[CFLarsen]

Oh bother, I seemed to have missed him, wish I had encountered him.

We had great fun with him, me, Suezoled and Chaos. :D