Religion the devourer of this relationship.

[Ceritus]

Ok, so I met this woman a while back her and I had many things in common and things were going great and eventually the what religion are you question comes up. I told her atheist and she told me I was wrong. I should have seen problems up ahead in our relationship but me being the optimistic one chooses to ignore those problems and continue on with the relationship.

Time goes on, feelings for each other magnify and a positive pregnancy test strip opens the doors to a whole new realm for me. I was so happy and scared at the same time as was she. We decide to get engaged and everything becomes so much better. I was happy very happy. Days pass and emotions become chaotic with her due to her pregnancy and I tell her it is ok I remember who you are before these silly hormones got in the way she smiled and the rest of the day was great.

Last month everything changed. She is now in her 2nd trimester and the military leave I had planned a year ago becomes a reality. I go home to see my family and old friends and I of course offer her a plane ticket to come with me but she couldn't due to her job. We talked and I offered to stay home but she refused because she said I needed to see my family. So I went ahead and saw them. The first week was rough being without her and the 2nd week is when everything went to Hades.

I talked on the phone to her every day and on dec 27th she wanted to discuss about converting me to the Baptist belief the whole getting baptized thing and silly me thought it would be a good idea to be honest with her and tell her I could go ahead and do it but it could never change what I actually think. She blew up and started talking about what religion this child was going to be and I simply said we can bring our child to church but I have full intentions of also teaching our child science and math. She hung up the phone out of anger and I of course called back and asked angrily why she hung up on me. She replied that she needs some time to think and for me to leave her alone so I did for the night.

The next morning I call her and she tells me about this Christian boy she met and how much she wanted me to be like him in the religious aspect. I asked why would you want me to be anyone but me. She replied that she wanted a good Christian husband not just a good husband. I then said that I can only be what I am and maybe what I aspire to be and no part of me aspires to believe in any religion. She started crying and hung up the phone. I tried calling her and she turned her phone off. The next day she calls me and tells me all about this guy Steven and then I asked if she had feelings for him and she said she didn't know by this time I was calling northwest about changing my flight to an earlier date because I wasn't just going to sit there and lose her.

Later that day she calls me and tells me she slept with him! I was speechless and enraged and then she tells me that she cannot be with me because I am not religious and I told her that is just an excuse and a very poor one at that. I asked her what was wrong with me and she said I couldn't be "the one" because I don't believe in God and at this point I didn't even want to come home. So here she is now with Steven having my child and they both are talking about how they don't want me to raise our child and how I should only have a minimal part in our child’s life simply because I am atheist. I don't want that I want to be there for my kid and it is driving me insane.

I just got word that I am being deployed in May until august and I won't even be there for my child’s birth and she is going to fight for full custody. I can't accept that I refuse to not do anything but I don't know where to turn. I am stationed in the Bible belt and my whole god damn world is falling apart. I want to have full custody of my child I want to raise my child and most importantly I want to be a part of my child’s life but right now it all seems so far away I mean our child isn't even born yet but I refuse to submit without a fight.

What do I do?

[Marquis de Carabas]

God. Damn. Just goddamn. I'm afraid I don't know of anything to help. I hope someone else here does.

[manly hug]

[Ceritus]

A large part of me wants to destroy this man but the other parts of me want to remain lawful. I know if I act on impulse and do something illegal I will have no shot being with my child when it is born but I need release and I don't know where to release it I am literally shaking out of anger because typing this just brought back all my hostile feelings towards this whole situation.

[slingblade]

Count yourself lucky to be out of it, first. Very lucky. If this was hell for you, imagine a life with this woman. And I don't say that because of her religion. I say that because she proved herself faithless so many times it should make your head spin. Sex before marriage, unwed pregnancy, and cheating on you because you won't find Jesus? Hang on; I have to oil the wheels on my eyes so I can roll them across the room.

Next, get a lawyer. Actually, do that first, then count your blessings. You may not get full custody, but that shouldn't stop you trying. You have as much right to the child as she does, and if nothing else, you might get joint custody, which is better than nothing.

Third, make it your priority to be in this child's life. Period. Never denigrate his mother or her faith, but simply present the scientific, mathematic, and logical thinking you planned to present to him/her. Teach him/her critical thinking. (If nothing else, you'll do teachers a big favor, never mind your child.)

Fourth, good luck, man. I hope this works out for the best (as much as possible) for all of you. And, have a hug from me. You deserve it.

ETA: Her faith is convenient, her love for you was convenient...how long, do you think, before the marriage became convenient?

[Kopji]

Let some time pass and revisit the problem in a couple months.

[meg]

Damn ceritus. I am so sorry!

I think you should get a lawyer and discuss the matter with him/her. A mother does not have the right to remove a child's father from the child's life unless the father is abusive or dangerous. I would make it very clear to the mother that you are the father and it really doesn't matter what her baptist boyfriend and her think, what will matter is what the family court will decide.

My best wishes to you.
meg

[merentha]

I agree with the posters who advise you to get a lawyer pronto. The child is the issue, forget about the mother. From what I can gather, your "lack of faith" was simply her excuse to get out of the relationship so that she can be with the new guy.

[Ceritus]

I agree with you mere and all of you tonight I am going through the yellow pages looking for a lawyer and as soon as I wake up tommorrow I am going to call all the ones I have found. I just have heard stories that they will never seperate a mother from her newborn and that my plight is pointless.

[Roboramma]

Ceritus, I remember your thread about this same matter (concerning the psychiatrist?) from before. Sad to see things turned out this way.
On the other hand, my god what a bitch. You are lucky to be rid of her, and to have found out sooner rather than later how little respect she had for you. She cheated on you, and now she's making it out as though it were your fault?
Because you didn't find jesus? I try to have sympathy, but.. ugh.

She was lucky to have an intelligent, thoughtful and caring fiance. She pissed on that because of some ancient lie. You deserve more than that.

Good luck with the custody battle. For the kid's sake I hope you get a good lawyer.

[meg]

Well, as long as the baby is breastfed, it's not likely that you'll get every weekend. There's no reason you can't visit and care for the child as much as possible, though. And then, once the baby is off the breast, you can figure out a 50% custody arrangement.

It's not pointless at all.

I really do think, too, that it's quite possible that the mother will come to her senses in a while, and realize that it's virtually impossible, as well as potentially damaging to a child to try to just "erase" a biological father that wishes to do his part and be a father, and she'll work something out with you.

Don't give up hope yet. Save that for when your kid is sixteen and wants you to buy her a car.:scared:

Meg

[Roboramma]

I agree with you mere and all of you tonight I am going through the yellow pages looking for a lawyer and as soon as I wake up tommorrow I am going to call all the ones I have found. I just have heard stories that they will never seperate a mother from her newborn and that my plight is pointless.

I know a guy who's ex found out she was pregnant shortly after a very messy breakup. She did everything in her power to keep him out of the child's life, but now he sees him on weekends. Of course it cost a lot of time and effort and money, but if that's what you want, don't give up hope.

[Dogdoctor]

Holy Frioles!!!! :eek:
This is way past my ability to give advice. All I can say is make sure you do the right thing, meaning do what makes you feel satisfied you did the right thing. I am not really sure of what exactly that might be. I had a girlfriend send me a picture of her near term pregnancy (naked to boot) around 10 months after she broke up with me and a picture of a baby. I wigged out but read the letter she wrote and the first words were "Don't worry it's not yours". Anyway she got back together with her ex and got knocked up right away after breaking up with me. I have no kids and no clue what to tell you. But you have my sympathy and if you need to talk feel free to pm me or whatever but I am not sure I have anything other than hope for you.

[epepke]

Too bad I can't use the F-word on this forum, because that's exactly what I think you should do with another woman.

[Huh-What?]

Ceritus, sorry that you have to go through this.

Take the advice of the others and call a lawyer. Regardless of what happens between you and the women focus on the child. I am a father of two boys and I have to tell you that if you have never been a parent you are about to get a real kick in the reality.

You can be told what its like, but until you hold your own child in your arms you will never fully understand all the love that is inside you. Make sure she does not deny you any visiting rights.

The women may or may not come to her senses about you or your custody rights so in any argument over your rights always involve a lawyer.

It is true that you will not get full custody. However, be a big part of your child's life as you possibly can.

On a I-may-be-way-off-base-here but, your leave may have been a convient time to break up with you. She may have planned it that way. Sorry man.

[nosho]

Hello Ceritus,

What a shattering experience, and what a horrible thing for someone to do to you. I've been there, and I know how painful it is. I hope you're OK. Hang in there.

This might sound trite, and if so I'm sorry, but sometimes, at these darkest of moments, we find the best within ourselves. We discover to our amazement how strong we can be in the face of horrible circumstances over which we have no control. Have faith in yourself. You are a good and worthy person. Don't forget that.

You will feel horrible, and some days will be worse than others. Turn to your friends, your family, whoever you're close to. You might do something stupid in the middle of this crisis. If so, don't be too hard on yourself. You're doing the best that you can, and that's pretty damn good.

One thing I know for certain: What this woman did will hurt her deeply. She will regret it for the rest of her life. She's in for a lot of pain, even if she doesn't realize it now. She's done something horrible to you, to your child, and also to herself.

She's looking for excuses now to justify to herself what she's done, and if she's grasping at religion, anyone can see it's just an empty excuse. She may have picked that excuse as a way of hitting a nerve with you, because she knows how you feel about religion. She's using it as a weapon to drive you away. But religion is not destroying this relationship; she is. Maybe she was lonely, maybe her hormones were screwed up, maybe she was confused, whatever. There's no good excuse for the choices she made. Eventually she'll figure that out, and then she'll have to face herself and what she did to her child's life.

And this other man, what a pitiful excuse for a human being. He has no concept of what he's doing. He's a thief, he's a liar, he's a hypocrite. She'll probably figure that out eventually, too. Try not to waste too much energy on him. It's a no-win situation. It's natural to be angry at him, but you might find that the anger directed at him does nothing in the long run but eat away in your gut. You're angry now, but you don't want to be angry at him forever. He's not worth it. Let your anger be what it is right now. It is what it is. And if you can, eventually, figure out a way to let it go. Not for him, but for yourself.

The most important thing to you is the baby, I can tell. Then you know that you will have a lifelong relationship with the baby's mother. Over the years, the child will need your strength. Because that child will love his or her mother. Let your sense of betrayal and anger and outrage toward her be what it is right now. And if you can, in the future, see if you can let that go, too, not for her, but for the baby. And for yourself.

You might not believe this right now, but it is possible. Better days are ahead.

I hope your love for this baby can be a source of strength for you as you deal with this painful, absurd, monumentally unfair situation.

Peace.

[LordoftheLeftHand]

On a I-may-be-way-off-base-here but, your leave may have been a convient time to break up with you. She may have planned it that way. Sorry man.

I don't think you are off base at all. While we are all just outsiders looking in on this train wreck, I think this is typical behavior.

Consider this:

Ceritus offered to stay home but she encouraged him to visit his family...

She asked Ceritus to get baptized and he agreed to do it to pay lip service to her religion. This is far and above the call of duty. Instead of being grateful, or at least accepting what she could get; she chose to start a major argument. She knew full well he would not be able to meet 100% of this demand, and that is why she made it. She might as well have asked him to chop off his head.

Furthermore she mentions another guy the next day, and later she says she has slept with him. I do not doubt this. I'm sure she did sleep with him, a long time ago.


So we either have to believe:

That in the short period he was away (on a trip she encouraged him to take!) she happened to have a crisis with god, decided that his religious beliefs were a serious problem (even though they had never been before!), decided to end the relationship (without telling him!), found someone else, and slept with him.

or

That she found this guy a long time ago and decided to switch ponies at the optimum moment (while Ceritus was away), and that this whole religious thing is just a red herring.


Ceritus,
Here is what I advise:

Get a lawyer.

Fight for your share of custody.

Get a paternity test. I know you do not want to hear this but she has proven that she is not faithful. In my experience people are generally not one time cheaters...

LLH

[Ipecac]

Man, I'm sorry. Geez.

What strikes me most is the absolute hypocrisy of her position. Your lack of religion is the justification for breaking off the relationship while she, the superior, moral Christian, apparently doesn't bat an eye over sleeping with another guy. She is messed up.

Good luck. I really hope the best for you.

[Anti_Hypeman]

You need to arrange for a DNA test even if you are sure it is yours. If you are not there when the baby is born she could very well claim its the other guys and put him on the birth cirtificate. Get your sample taken and a court odrer to do the test as soon as the baby pops out.

Do her entire family and church know about the pregnancy and you yet? She might suddenly decide that jesus boy is the father to save face. Remember that to some fundies life is all about what other people think of you and not what you actually do.

[That_guy]

Firstly, it sucks that you have to go through this, especially as a military man; deployments and other military functions are bound to make this more difficult for you.

That said, you should let your command know now that this battle is coming; they may take you off the deployment pending conclusion of the legal issues. If that doesn't work, talk to your Chaplain (even though you're an atheist.) The Chaplain's job is to fight your command when necessary to preserve your peace of mind.

You may very well also be able to get help from your service's lawyers, also.

Best of luck.

[hgc]

...
That she found this guy a long time ago and decided to switch ponies at the optimum moment (while Ceritus was away), and that this whole religious thing is just a red herring.I was thinking the same thing. I only know what you described in the OP, but from this distance, it looks like a possibility.


Ceritus,
Here is what I advise:

Get a lawyer.

Fight for your share of custody.

Get a paternity test. I know you do not want to hear this but she has proven that she is not faithful. In my experience people are generally not one time cheaters...Also very good advice. Of course you want to assert your rights as a parent, but you also have to verify the facts.

[Pauliesonne]

She sounds like a bItch!

[bluess]

Ceritus:

I agree with LLH, make sure this child is yours. I know you are emotionally invested, but there is a very good chance that she's been sleeping with this other fellow (ever so religiously) for a long time.

And be VERY thankful that you are not going to marry her. Married life can be challenging for two committed, honest partners. It would be hell with someone who lies and connives.

[gnome]

Before she tries to help anyone find Jesus, she should probably do some looking herself...

Do not waste any time acting on your anger, and try to rid yourself of it as soon as your brain lets you. Let it out on something without feelings, like a heavy bag or a target or something.

Of course, follow all the previous advice on lawyers... be thankful you found out about her before she sucked up any more of your time... and enjoy your time with your son.

Good luck!

[Belz...]

What do I do?

If I wanted to be funny, I'd tell you to do what Cronus did. Eat the baby.

But this kind of story just peeves me off too much. I have no idea, man. There is no simple answer.

Gunderscoredamn it. That an innocent child would be forced to listen to such drivel. GRAGH! I hate this. Simpathies, man.

[Belz...]

Count yourself lucky to be out of it, first. Very lucky. If this was hell for you, imagine a life with this woman. And I don't say that because of her religion. I say that because she proved herself faithless so many times it should make your head spin. Sex before marriage, unwed pregnancy, and cheating on you because you won't find Jesus? Hang on; I have to oil the wheels on my eyes so I can roll them across the room.

Next, get a lawyer. Actually, do that first, then count your blessings. You may not get full custody, but that shouldn't stop you trying. You have as much right to the child as she does, and if nothing else, you might get joint custody, which is better than nothing.

Third, make it your priority to be in this child's life. Period. Never denigrate his mother or her faith, but simply present the scientific, mathematic, and logical thinking you planned to present to him/her. Teach him/her critical thinking. (If nothing else, you'll do teachers a big favor, never mind your child.)

Fourth, good luck, man. I hope this works out for the best (as much as possible) for all of you. And, have a hug from me. You deserve it.

ETA: Her faith is convenient, her love for you was convenient...how long, do you think, before the marriage became convenient?

Yeah, what Sling said.

[T'ai Chi]

She blew up and started talking about what religion this child was going to be and I simply said we can bring our child to church but I have full intentions of also teaching our child science and math.


I'd assume she does too, since being religious doesn't exclude learning science and math..

[wolfgirl]

Dude, that is just wrong. So sorry you have to go through this.

Get a lawyer. That baby is as much yours as hers, and you have as much right to raise it your way as she does hers. You may not get full custody, but there is no way she can keep you from having joint custody unless you're abusive or something.

In light of that, hold your anger in check. Anything you do now, to her or her "boyfriend," can be used against you in a custody case. You must show that all you care about now is the child's welfare.

As others have said, insist on a paternity test. It seems unlikely she just suddenly out of the blue fell in love with this other guy and started sleeping with him over the course of the few days you were away.

How can they be so frigging hypocritical. Good Christian, my butt! Pregnant out of wedlock and then sleeping with one man while pregnant with another man's baby! And he's such a good Christian that he sleeps with another man's woman while he's out of town! Jeez!

[Beth]

Ceritus,

My sympathies. What a really tough spot to be in. It's perfectly understandable that you are incredibly angry right now, but it's best not to make unredeemable decisions while you are this angry.

I don't know you or your girlfriend, so I'm not comfortable saying that you should dump her now and be glad it's before you were married or that you should give her a chance to explain what's going on and possibly make reparations with you. Clearly, she's done some things that will make it impossible for your relationship to continue as it was before. You'll want to do some serious thinking about what will be the best course for all three of you. Don't make the decision now while you are blinded with hurt and anger.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

[Ceritus]

I'd assume she does too, since being religious doesn't exclude learning science and math..

She despises science more than anything because she actually believes that science is there to take people away from god. The irony of it all is that she goes to the doc's to make sure the child is ok. She believes that people should invest more time in the bible than anything else. Thinking back at what I did I was retarded to even think I could make this work out.

I fooled myself into thinking I could make her think more rationally. I didn't want to take her religion away from her but I really did think I could get her to meet me in some middle ground.

[Dogdoctor]

Ceritus,
Repeat after me,
"In the future I will not engage in baby making till I get important issues such as religion squared away"
Now stand on one foot and point the other forward and swing it back firmly into your rear.
Now do you feel better?
No point beating yourself up. Live and learn. Try to make the best of the situation. Lots of advice here to get a lawyer, I am guessing you already figured that. Isn't there any help that the military provides?

[Ceritus]

Isn't there any help that the military provides?


None that I have found so far that could help me deal with custody.

[Ceritus]

I am looking for a lawyer I just need to find one I can afford. I have an appointment with two tommorrow afternoon.

[Kopji]

Might have a paternity test before getting too carried away, from what you've related you have about a 50% chance of it being your child. (Kopji thinks less than 50%.)

Without trying to sound too much in support of the clearly ********** up enemy camp, might consider what will be best for the child.

Option 1: "Cut the baby in half"
Option 2: "Leave baby whole but give it up"

[slingblade]

I am looking for a lawyer I just need to find one I can afford. I have an appointment with two tommorrow afternoon.

The baby's not born yet, right? So talk to someone about pro bono representation. The county should have a list of attorneys who do this a certain number of billable hours a month. You may have to get on a waiting list, which is why it's a good thing to do it now, before the baby's born.

Dunno if that's an option for you, wherever you're stationed, but it can't hurt to look into it.

Good luck.

[a_unique_person]

Sounds like it's more a case of 'godfearing', in the sense of 'godfearing family'. She is prepared to sleep, outside of wedlock, with another good xian, but not stay loyal to you. What is really bothering her is not god so much, she will break his commandments quite readily, but what everyone will think about her.

If she can't get her head around that, then you don't have much of a chance without her changing her world view.

[LordoftheLeftHand]

None that I have found so far that could help me deal with custody.

I assume you've checked in with the Judge Advocate General's office?

LLH

[Jyera]

Might have a paternity test before getting too carried away, from what you've related you have about a 50% chance of it being your child. (Kopji thinks less than 50%.)

Without trying to sound too much in support of the clearly ********** up enemy camp, might consider what will be best for the child.

Option 1: "Cut the baby in half"
Option 2: "Leave baby whole but give it up"
Ceritus, I Agree with Kopji.

And have this to add...
Option 3:"Leave baby whole but give the baby to you".

In this age of gay union, it is not unthinkable to replace a mother with a gay partner or paid nanny. May be you'll create legal history.

I'd say you do not have any tangible relationship with the child yet.
If you think you do, check if it's just your ego.

The mother will definitely have much more natural time to bond with the child. Unless the child is born into the family with you as the father, and sees you regularly, you are out of their life. Do not commit yourself emotionally.

There may be such thing as 50/50 share of custody in legal terms, but it is wishful thinking that it can really works to a true 50/50.

You can try to get full custody. But you'll fail, some might say.
But there is no stopping you to demostrate that you do want to get full custody. And at least you can tell the child in future you did try to get full custody, but failed.

Try for full custody or none.
50/50 is meaningless. Especially if there is going to be another man in the house. And you cannot compete with a need to breastfeed. The child is going to spend more time with mother. Unless she is a bad one, you are out of luck. I expect very little chance for you to bond with the child.

Trying for full custody will also give her a chance to deny you the full custody. Tell her the child has your gene and will be destined to be a atheist. Ask her to be ready to accept that. And demand that she be forgiving to the child, even though she obviously isn't forgiving to you. And perhaps she might consider to give you full custody after all.

Oppose to any idea to have abortion, but if she decided so, don't feel too bad. She asked for it. End of story.

[Jyera]

Is she still using the same counsellor ?
Is the guy/s she slept with, the counsellor?

Is she really that fantastic? Did she place a spell on you?
What made such a sane, wise, critical-thinking man like you go for such a girl with so much problem?

She made you spend much of your precious time wooing her.
This commitment is her insurance to have you treasure the relationship with her. You're trap! Time to get out while you have the moral right to do so.

So much problem in such a short period.
I'll say let it go and cut-lost.
Even if she comes begging, you should think thrice.

Don't miss the forest for the tree.
I'm sure there are lots of wonderful atheist girls in this world.
And you need not have only one child.

[Complexity]

Hey, Ceritus,

Sorry events have taken this path. I was thinking about you yesterday and was about to PM asking how things were.

I agree with the suggestions of many of the posters: get a lawyer, demand a paternity test, make the child a priority in your life if, indeed, it is yours.

PM if you'd like to talk.

[Huh-What?]

Option 2: "Leave baby whole but give it up"

As a father I couldn't phanthom this as an option.

If I could only see my kids on the weekends or twice a month it would be painful.

To never see them would destroy me.

[rustypouch]

The baby makes things interesting.

Had she not been preggers, it would have been much easier to ditch that skank.

Lawyers and paternity tests are in order. I do not know how much you want the kid, but if it is not yours, you should be able to get out of there unscathed. If it is yours, you are screwed.

Bah.

[Dark Jaguar]

I have to say this is one of the most painful things I've had to read about. The suggestions made here are very smart indeed. First reading this story, I was stumped as to any way to proceed from that moment. I'm sure you were as well. However, these people have actually come up with a simple plan of action for a complex situation.

I can only suggest not worrying too much about whether or not this works. Just focus on one step at a time.

Further, you noted you felt such anger you wanted to become violent against that man. I know you have likely calmed yourself by now, but if you said that, I can only think it meant you really wanted some commentary on it. Let me make explicit what I'm sure is common sense: do not attack any of the people involved. It will not aid you and it will hurt others as well. I've never had the experience of being in a relationship like that, but I've witnessed the dissolution of a few over my life and I have to say it is very likely this guy was suckered in just like you. It is possible she has labelled you as evil and horrible and played on his guilt. It is also possible he really was just intent on screwing things up for you. However, even if both of them have purely evil motivations, do not become violent. It won't help you. It won't help the kid. And, though you may not be in a particularly caring mood towards those two (and that's understandable), it won't help them either. I'm sure in the long run you may look back and wish for the best for them despite what harm they have done to you, which I say from witnessing the years beyond a breakup, and you will likely regret any harm you did to them during this very messed up time.

I've said my piece, and it likely need not have been said.

I can only say I hope you decide with certainty whether or not you want to be in the child's life. After that decision, if you decide to walk away, I hope you can truly break it off. If you decide to gain custody in some form or another of the child, I hope you get it because I really think the kid needs a chance to be exposed to critical thinking when growing up. I've also seen all too often the sorts of attitudes the irrational have towards life. Too many of my former classmates lack any sort of ambition and don't accomplish their dreams purely from lack of trying and waiting for god or something to show them the way.

[Kevin_Lowe]

Paternity test. Paternity test. Paternity test.

There's a fair chance the crotch critter is neither your problem nor your business.

[Huh-What?]

Paternity test. Paternity test. Paternity test.

There's a fair chance the crotch critter is neither your problem nor your business.

Ceritus, whether a test turns out positive or negative is good news, but definitely find out.

[Pauliesonne]

If the baby is yours, I say;

FIGHT

[Roboramma]

One more little thing I'd like to say.

If the child is yours, and you want to be a part of his/her life, then great, do everything you can to make that possible.

On the other hand, if you realise that it's not worth it to you, then don't feel guilty about that. If she doesn't want you in the child's life, the only reason to force the issue is if you feel strongly about it. It sounds like you do, but in case you don't, I think it needs to be said, there is no reason to do so out of guilt.