Skeptical homeschooling

[sistathinker]

So, I'm childless for now, but I'm planning to not be forever.

I'm dead set against public schooling, and I can't really find secular private schooling in my area.

Anyone got any resources they'd care to share?

Thanks!

ST

[NeilC]

I'd worry about how such a thing would affect the child in terms of having friends, dealing with other kids, sharing the same interests and crazes etc. How would you deal with that?

[eri]

Eh. I went to public school for most of my life, and managed to turn out a complete outcast anyway.

What is it in particular you have against public school?

[blutoski]

I'm afraid this may turn into a debate over the actual merits of homeschooling, rather than a response to your request for resources.

What exactly are you looking for? Your state or province should have a list of accredited private schools, usually including how to work with your school district to establish a customized program. There will probably also be correspondence options available.

I'm not sure the forum can help without knowing about at least your locality and whether you'll be schooling a primary or secondary student.

[sophia8]

This is probably what you're looking for: Unschoolers Unlimited (http://borntoexplore.org/unschool/index.html)
Lots of links and info, no religious stuff.

[cbish]

ah! don't get Beth & I started again! I'm still worn out! And that was, what?, two years ago?

[Antiquehunter]

Sista - your kids NEED to be in school - because with your guidance and through personality, they need to be opening up cans of skeptical whoopass on their classmates.

Don't deny other kids the opportunity to interact with YOUR kids!

-AH.

[bluess]

Blue2 will be in public school up to grade 5, then we'll see. The local elementary school staff is amazing. We are supplementing at home using the Comprehensive Curriculum books from American Education Publication. The Pre-K, K, 1 and 2 books are all very well laid out. Mr. Blue, who was a teacher, is very happy with them. You might also want to review Hirsch's series on 'What Every (Kindergartner/First Grader, etc.) Needs to Know'.

[Beth]

ah! don't get Beth & I started again! I'm still worn out! And that was, what?, two years ago?


Not quite. I haven't been here that long. Must of been last year. But I don't have time for debating at the moment, so you'd win by default. :D

[blutoski]

This is probably what you're looking for: Unschoolers Unlimited (http://borntoexplore.org/unschool/index.html)
Lots of links and info, no religious stuff.

Oooh, but there's some wacky stuff there, don't you think? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure public education doesn't have a course called "suicide education".

[farrisjs]

I have two kids both are being homeschooled. We have a good secular homeschool group in St. Louis which provide alot of time for social interaction with other kids. It does require my wife to spend alot of time developing lessons and driving the kids to classes.

[cbish]

Not quite. I haven't been here that long. Must of been last year. But I don't have time for debating at the moment, so you'd win by default. :DLast Fall. I think we covered just about everything. Where's my dead horse?

[cbish]

We have a good secular homeschool group in St. Louis which provide alot of time for social interaction with other kids.

From what I've seen in my own community, this is key. Not necessarily the interaction but for the pooling of resources. No need to keep reinventing the wheel.

[farrisjs]

From what I've seen in my own community, this is key. Not necessarily the interaction but for the pooling of resources. No need to keep reinventing the wheel.

Correct.

To partcipate in the group you need to offer some sort of group class.

[Chris Haynes]

So, I'm childless for now, but I'm planning to not be forever.
...

As the voice of experience: Wait until you have kids. Then try looking, because...

1) One of the best places to find information is where other parents congregate (like at playgrounds, parenting groups, etc). Since this forum in pretty much international, you will get all sorts of varying information.

2) If your child is not yet born, you still have at least five years to go... in that time period the resources you get now may disappear, and others may reappear.

3) Sometimes things happen that you do not anticipate... like having a kid with medical issues, and as we have found out over the past 17 years, our oldest has some serious learning disorders.

4) Other things happen, like you move... or one parent is no longer there, which make homeschooling more difficult (one thing my hubby and I have in common is that we both had a parent die while we young).

I live in an area with lots of secular homeschooling. There are homeschooling groups, companies that cater to homeschoolers and even homeschooling resource centers provided by public school districts (including online courses for high school students). Since I know a few kids that are homeschooled (including the kids of the director of a speech therapy clinic my oldest went to) I do have a couple ideas:

1) There are "children's fairs" or "educational fairs" held in our area about once a year... there may be something like that in your area. You need to check out the local parenting ads in your local newspaper or some local parenting publication (the latter are often given away free at maternity stores, kid clothing stores, etc.). The last time I went to one over a decade ago there were several companies with booths promoting their homeschooling materials.

2) There are a couple of newsgroups for homeschooling, you can check out their archives on http://groups.google.com/group/misc.education.home-school.misc ... and there are some others (in the groups.google.com the search on the world "homeschooling" included a private group on "pagan homeschooling"!).

3) One very reason some children are homeschooled is because they are serious musicians. These are kids (some as young as 9 years old) who practice several hours a day, and cannot schedulre regular school attendence. I've seen a musical performance of a homeschool group that was incredible... so you might see if music stores or teachers know of any of these groups, and what are their resources.

4) Often in metropolitan areas you will have education specialty stores. In this area there is a "science" store and a "Math" store. These are places that cater to homeschoolers.

Good luck... I personally would not homeschool my kids. One of my jobs as a parent is to make sure they get to bed alive --- I'm not so sure that would happen if I had them home all day.

Oh, I must add this anecdote: Even though I had one kid in the special ed. preschool and realized how little I knew about children and child development, I got an additonal lesson with fair normal child #2. When the kids were little I took them to a "parent/baby/toddler" swimming class. While other parents were getting their toddlers to jump in the pool, blow bubbles and actually do stuff... my then two-year-old would not do ANYTHING for me! So when he was three years old I enrolled him in the pool's class for three-years-old (one teacher for three kids). It turns out my son would do anything the teacher asked and actually learned how to swim!

That is when I learned that my kids really don't want to listen to me... so I've limited my "teaching" moments. That even included paying for sewing lessons, even though that is something I could teach them. Last night my offer to help my 6th grade daughter with fractions was rejected forcedly.

They are kind of like husbands that way. I have often found that the best way to tell my husband something is to have someone else tell him (the shining example of that was when he insisted that all walls have to be painted with flat paint, while I thought semi-gloss would be better in the bathroom... the clerk at the hardware store's paint counter told him that the flat paint he was buying for the bathroom was not a good choice, so he relented --- I did my "told you so" dance where he could not see me).

[sistathinker]

Wow! So much great stuff!

AntiqueHunter- you're right... my kids are going to be little Atheist, skeptic hellraisers. I'd like to give them the option at high school to continue at home or enter an approved academy. But I do plan on teaching them argumentation (I was a rather successful debater through high school and college) from age 7 or 8 onward.

And HydroCyan, my hubby is a rather gifted musician himself. We knew we would get on when he said he wanted to have kids and homeschool them so they could concentrate on music and science studies. I feel that way about every other topic, so we're happy. You should offer a pamphlet on husband training... I'm still learning in that respect!

[NeilC]

And if they turn out to be bad at and dislike music and science?

You know, I agree with the other poster - wait until you have kids before you start planning out their lives. They may be nothing like you think. They develop strong personalities very fast and tell YOU what they want. You can't go into it deciding what they will be like.

If they turned out to be Christians but very caring compassionate christians with lovely parters, good jobs and very happy - wouldn't that be enough?

I know some kids whose parents had strong views on what they should and shouldn't think and they are weird kids. Not at all confident and don't fit in easily. I'm not saying that's what you are like or that's what will happen but you need to be careful planning this stuff.

[farrisjs]

I agree with Splossy, let your kids decide thier direction the only thing you can do is provide guidance and love.

[joesixpack]

Last Fall. I think we covered just about everything. Where's my dead horse?
Here he is;

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=34068&highlight=homeschooling

[TriangleMan]

A poster named TQuilla, who mostly lurks and I think has only posted a couple of times, homeschools her daughter. Try sending her a PM as she may have information.

Shame I didn't meet you sistathinker at TAM4, TQuilla was there with her husband and I could have introduced you to her.

[veggie doll]

And if they turn out to be bad at and dislike music and science?

You know, I agree with the other poster - wait until you have kids before you start planning out their lives. They may be nothing like you think. They develop strong personalities very fast and tell YOU what they want. You can't go into it deciding what they will be like.

If they turned out to be Christians but very caring compassionate christians with lovely parters, good jobs and very happy - wouldn't that be enough?

I know some kids whose parents had strong views on what they should and shouldn't think and they are weird kids. Not at all confident and don't fit in easily. I'm not saying that's what you are like or that's what will happen but you need to be careful planning this stuff.

(Bolding is mine).

I am guilty of this sometimes. I am yet to have my first child, yet I already imagine what type of people my children will be given the personality of my fiance and I. :o

To the OP: Try not to plan your child's life just yet. You have a while to do that. Also, no matter what you do end up planning, your offspring will mess it up in one way or another- whether through hating music, or becoming deeply religious, or demanding to go to a 'normal' school to be with children his/her own age. :D

[TQuilla]

Hey, just found this thread. Triangle Man is right, sistathinker. I'm sorry to have missed the opportunity to speak with you at TAM4. My daughter is now 12 years old and has never attended school. There are quite a few comments on this thread to which I'd love to respond, but I need time to digest them. Some thoughts that come quickly to mind involve socialization and witnessing to the Woo.

I have found that the homeschoolers I know frequently have to scale back social activities to ensure that academics get addressed. I know that two years ago, I had to put the skids on all our social activities because we weren't getting the basics done! One of the advantages of home schooling is that you can make adjustments, both academically and socially, as necessary. Many folks home school because their children have special needs, so my daughter has experience in dealing with other children (and adults) of varying challenges and abilities. Not to mention different age groups.

It is true that many home schoolers tend to be fundamentalist Christian, though not as many as I had originally thought. I have no good numbers or cites regarding reasons for home schooling, though I've seen a number of studies and surveys with conflicting information. Please take anything said by "official" organizations such as the Home School Legal Defense Association with a grain of salt. They're political organizations with agenda of their own. That's a subject for a differenct thread, I'm sure.

Anyway, we run into a lack of critical thinking all the time, especially in science co-ops or classes at the science museums. We witness to the Woo all the time, believe me. Pretty much a losing battle, though. All we can hope for is to plant a few seeds.

As for resources, it's amazing how many are out there. We've used everything from K12 to SRA to Scholastic to the local library. We've taken some amazing field trips that simply aren't possible in public school and rarely in private school, I suspect. Of course, living in a city of 4 million people helps. The Houston Museum of Natural Science provides many, many science classes, including dissection. I've put together a pretty respectable chemistry lab in our home for much less money than I thought I'd have to spend.

I could go on and on. My daughter and I both love home schooling. I fully recognize its strengths and weaknesses. I certainly don't bash public schooling -- home schooling is just another education option among many. And it certainly isn't for everyone. It is a full-time job requiring much thought and dedication. But I believe it's the most fun I've ever had.

Whoops. Getting off the subject of resources again. sistathinker, did you have any specific questions about resources? I can certainly give you my protracted whine about the lack of secular science resources for home schoolers. Bob Jones, Abeka, and other religious publishers are kicking our secular butts, I can tell you. The secular science books at the elementary & middle school levels that I have been able to find are pretty watered down; the religious stuff is actually pretty rigorous, but you have to weed out the preaching. And forget about evolution! In high school, of course, for home schoolers there is Saxon's Physics -- secular and pretty rigorous.

There are many comprehensive curricula, though they're mostly religion-based. Consequently, the secular home schoolers I know tend to do what's generally called eclectic home schooling.

Home schooling resources and opportunities are increasing all the time. We've attended Home School Day at Space Center Houston, Six Flags, Sea World, and the Texas Renaissance Festival. Home educators get discounts at Office Max, Office Depot, Borders, and other businesses. Because we are available during school hours, home schoolers are sought out by athletic and business organizations. The YMCA has programs for us, a local rock-climbing business has special home schooler hours and discounts, and so on.

Obviously, I'm enthusiastic about the subject and could go on and on. But, my daughter and I are heading out the door to a US history co-op.

I appreciate the questions and comments I've skimmed so far. I try to keep asking the hard questions myself. I'll review the posts on this thread and respond later, if anyone is interested in my views on these matters.

--TQuilla

[Chris Haynes]

I personally would not homeschool... but that is my choice (it also keeps the kids more alive).

Homeschooling resources also vary by where you live and the state laws can affect that. I live in a very "homeschooling friendly" state, so there are lots of resources and secular homeschoolers. From the homeschoolers I know I've learned that they can participate in school bands... AND the quailfy for school discounts at the Children's Theater ($7 tickets instead of $15 to $20).

Also... this is has popped up back to my notice, I thought I might mention there is a very lively discussion that involves some homeschooling comments here that some may be interested:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/02/im_sure_ken_ham_is_sincere_in.php

[Mercifull]

Its sad that people should have to resort to homeschooling just to give their kids an unbias education :(

[Chris Haynes]

Its sad that people should have to resort to homeschooling just to give their kids an unbias education :(

Not everyone has to... I found it very fun to watch my son give his oral (and Powerpoint) presentation of his "Evolution: Everyone Has an Opinion" report in middle school (I was there to bring his cat, which he used as part of his explanation of evolutionary adaptations). He was openly challenged by some other students who were either "ID" or "Creationist" proponents. My kid handled himself well.