Cowardly Massacre-ing U.S. Soldiers Didn't Allow as Much Looting as First Reported

[Skeptical Greg]

Well a Right-Wing Matriarchal Bed-Wetter's gotta' do what oughta' be done, so here it is..

From this thread:
Looted Baghdad museum (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18731) Originally posted by ceo_esq
Today's International Herald Tribune reports some good news, however. The number of missing artifacts may be drastically smaller than initially believed. Numerous items have been discovered stashed away in the museum's own vaults or in other locations; hundreds more have been returned voluntarily or seized.

Here's the story:

http://www.iht.com/articles/95002.html Down from 170,000 priceless treasures, to 29!!!....:eek:

Why do I think this thread won't get the attention that this one did?

US experts resign over Iraq looting (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17777)

Cleopatra?

[Baker]

Thanks for the info Diogenes this is going to upset a lot of the blame the US crowd from the first thread on this topic.

[corplinx]

A report I heard earlier today said that some of the most prized museum items also may have been looted beforehand.

Instead of saying "in your face" to the people who were using this to bolster their negativity, I just want to say that this is a good thing for the Iraqi people. The apparent looting of the museums priceless artifacts by citizens was a big blow to the pride of their people. I also think this a good thing to everyone in the world who might get a chance to see the recovered items in a new and free Iraq one day (hopefully).

[Tony]

I knew it was bulls**t from the beginning.

[Baggle]

Great to know.

I am very much looking forward to the discoveries of years to come in Iraq. So many ancient civilians and mysteries finally able to be studied by the whole world. This adds a boost to that and also makes my country look better, which of course is always nice.

-Baggle

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by corplinx
A report I heard earlier today said that some of the most prized museum items also may have been looted beforehand.

Instead of saying "in your face" to the people who were using this to bolster their negativity, I just want to say that this is a good thing for the Iraqi people. The apparent looting of the museums priceless artifacts by citizens was a big blow to the pride of their people. I also think this a good thing to everyone in the world who might get a chance to see the recovered items in a new and free Iraq one day (hopefully).

I appreciate the spirit of your post, and definitely concur.

But, hey, gotta take those " in your face's" whenever you can get them. They are too few and far between..:D

I heard em' talking about this on Fox yesterday, but I didn't have a linkable source so I kept quiet.

[Tricky]

I am very glad that many of the priceless treasures are safe because of the forethought of the museum curators who made some very good decisions. Did the troops know that the artifacts had been protected? If so, then why didn't they mention it earlier? The subsequent discovery that the looters didn't get much as we thought in no way excuses the decision not to try to stop the looting.

Can you imagine the headline:
Police sit idle watching robbery take place "They're not gonna get much," said one officer who watched the robbery while standing guard at the nearby donut shop, "Those folks have a safe".

[Tony]

Originally posted by Tricky


Can you imagine the headline:
Police sit idle watching robbery take place "They're not gonna get much," said one officer who watched the robbery while standing guard at the nearby donut shop, "Those folks have a safe".

Most police dont have to worry about guys with machine guns and grenades.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Tony


Most police dont have to worry about guys with machine guns and grenades.
All they had to do was position some troops in front of the museums. Did anybody with those machine guns and grenades attack the ministry of oil?

[Tony]

Originally posted by Tricky

Did anybody with those machine guns and grenades attack the ministry of oil?

I dunno, you tell me.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Tony


I dunno, you tell me.
LOL. No, they didn't. The ministry of oil was completely untouched, and not a shot was fired.

[corplinx]

There is a logistics problem in trying to make a military force into a police force. Leaving 2 troops at the museum doors is an open invitation for a remnant attack. If you put too many people there then that is also a waste.

Supposedly, Bush let the field commanders have more say-so in operations. I think they did a good job for the most part and I'm not going to let the looting overshadow a commendable job in minimizing civillian death.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Tricky
I am very glad that many of the priceless treasures are safe because of the forethought of the museum curators who made some very good decisions. Did the troops know that the artifacts had been protected? If so, then why didn't they mention it earlier? The subsequent discovery that the looters didn't get much as we thought in no way excuses the decision not to try to stop the looting.

Can you imagine the headline:
Police sit idle watching robbery take place "They're not gonna get much," said one officer who watched the robbery while standing guard at the nearby donut shop, "Those folks have a safe".

What I can imagine, are countless thread titles on the JREF forums, like:

" Cowardly U.S. Soldiers Massacre Would-Be Looters "

"What piece of pottery is worth one persons life?.. Even if it does contain 3,000 year old urine stains."

[Baker]

Originally posted by Tricky

LOL. No, they didn't. The ministry of oil was completely untouched, and not a shot was fired.

Is that proof that it was the only thing being guarded?

[a_unique_person]

John Limbert, an American diplomat who is a senior adviser in the new Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance in Iraq, concurred. "How bad was it?" he asked. "We just don't know yet." While many museum officials watched in horror as mobs and perhaps organized gangs rampaged through the museum's 18 galleries, seized objects on display, tore open steel cases, smashed statues and broke into storage vaults, officials now discount the first reports that the museum's entire collection of 170,000 objects had been lost.
.


So the story of mobs looting, as shown in pictures, still stands. The actual damage, of course, depends on the checking records, which were destroyed.

Copies of the records were made by other museums, but there will obviously be a huge task to work out just what is missing.

Apart from that, title is completely wrong. There was no attempt made to protect the museum. If things did or did not go at that time, the army was not there when it should have been.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Baker

Is that proof that it was the only thing being guarded?
There is plenty of evidence that the museums were not being guarded. There is plenty of evidence of looters ransacking numerous buildings, but I have not heard of the "guarding status" of specific buildings. Certainly there is no news of Coalition troops guarding the oil ministry (or anywhere else) being attacked by looters. This says to me that the mere presence of troops prevents looting. What does it say to you?

[NoZed Avenger]

Originally posted by Tricky

There is plenty of evidence that the museums were not being guarded. There is plenty of evidence of looters ransacking numerous buildings, but I have not heard of the "guarding status" of specific buildings. Certainly there is no news of Coalition troops guarding the oil ministry (or anywhere else) being attacked by looters. This says to me that the mere presence of troops prevents looting. What does it say to you?

It may very well say that; it sounds plausible in the extreme -- it may also say, at least partially, that looters, as such, do not pick "the oil ministry" as their first target, but would prefer to go after other targets: electronics, food, medical supplies, money and/or highly valuable, portable items. The location of the oil ministry vs. other, more or less urban targets might also be a factor.

NA

[NoZed Avenger]

Originally posted by Tricky

There is plenty of evidence that the museums were not being guarded. There is plenty of evidence of looters ransacking numerous buildings, but I have not heard of the "guarding status" of specific buildings. Certainly there is no news of Coalition troops guarding the oil ministry (or anywhere else) being attacked by looters. This says to me that the mere presence of troops prevents looting. What does it say to you?

Edited to add: My post diappeared.

I think that the presence of troops makes sense as an explanation, but also feel that it can also say something about the targets chosen by looters anyway -- food, medicine, electronics, money and small, easily portable valuables may be larger targets than "the oil ministry." Also, I am not sure how conveniently the ministry is located for looting.

NA

[Mr Manifesto]

There are also reports that America have kept the museum curators from going into the museums so they can adequately evaluate what has been lost.

Think too- how can a looted musuem only be missing 29 artifacts? Did the looters maybe get bored or think they have enough stolen things already?

Frankly I think someone is eating too much propaganda.

Nie essen stierscheiße.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
There are also reports that America have kept the museum curators from going into the museums so they can adequately evaluate what has been lost.
That's a bit hard to believe. Do you have a link. I find it unfathomable that the US would let looters in but not curators. However, I agree that the "29 missing artifacts" statement is among the most stupid things I've ever heard. What were those looters carrying out? Ashtrays?

[Mr Manifesto]

They didn't let the curators in after the looting had been done. The idea being not to let the world know how much damage had been done in the wake of the public outcry. I cannot find a link because I saw it on TV. I thought it was the 7.30 report on ABC.net.au but it is not in their archive. I cannot use the archive on the news site.


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[Baggle]

If the looting was organized, as the media outlets are reporting now, why is missing only 29 items so hard to believe? If there was a list for the looters, "Get this, this, this and this," that was 29 items long, and they had no idea how to sell these things themselves, let alone risking that, why would they have taken any more than that?

Not saying it's the only way, just that it is more possible than some are leading on.

Also, I seem to recall seeing video of museum employees inside the museum screaming and yelling at looters? Do I remember wrong?(entirely possible)

-Baggle