Is there anyone who is interested in One Million Dollar Prize Money?

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Why does Dr. MAS pose for pictures in front of a bank in which he has no money? And what is the point of posting those pictures?

reply is given above

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Impossible! I won that award!


The CD we received two in a months have all the activities of MAS organization. He has got uncountable shields certifcates and medals. How may you will change? ;)

[The_Fire]

I was also a little bored and went "mas" hunting with Google.....one should think that if the MAS collective was such a good and respected "professional" then there would be some trace of him outside otherhealth.com and other homeopath boards, correct? Wrong. There are a reference to a pediatric surgeon and an article on renal something.....As well as an entry at Punjab university (140 points? Not that good... result found Here (http://www.pu.edu.pk/admission-notice/hcc-fsc-test-result-2005.asp) look for number 418 in roll number).

And those pretty pictures doesn't prove squat. Matter of fact is that it could be manipulated.
For instance, if one were to look at the angle of the nameplague, the date and the "sponsored by" thing, then it's croocked compared to what I suspect is the original bank crest and the top "HMA" logo. The date also looks rather artificial if you ask me.

Take a look at this:

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Answer to your last question. YES

Just stop. You are a fraud, a liar, a conman, a fake. You are trolling. My opinions on you, your friend, and your posts are summed up nicely here http://www.ultimateflame.com/ Please take special not of paragraphs 6 and 12.

[aggle-rithm]

reply is given above

Thanks, but can we get a reply that contains useful information? Sorry for not being more specific.

[Hitch]

Does the money exist?
Answer to your last question. YES
Given that "When we say Dr. MAS then we do not know who is mas" do you understand the need for us to have some proof that the money exists? What can you offer in proof that the money exists?

[aggle-rithm]

What really gets me about the MAS collective is that they live in a part of the world where English is widely spoken. Witness all the pictures he has provided -- everything is in English! The British controlled that part of the world for ages, after all.

In spite of this, the highly educated, highly decorated members of the collective can't find a single spokesman who can speak coherent English. I guess that's just the way it worked out.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Does the money exist?

Given that "When we say Dr. MAS then we do not know who is mas" do you understand the need for us to have some proof that the money exists? What can you offer in proof that the money exists?

They can not, because it does not. It's been clearly explained to them how escrow works, and even basic banking fundementals, and they continue to play word games and dance around the questions. It has been one of the best trolled threads I have ever witnessed in my time on the net.

[edit] To clarify, what the troll is trying to do is apply the same questions/logic that we (the skeptics) approached their claims of homeopathy with, to our request for proof of the money. When they said that their was/not (whichever) molecules in the final solution we said, prove that it works. Now, when we ask for proof of the money they are responding that "even if you show you the money is there, you will ask for 'proof that it works'".

[The_Fire]

They can not, because it does not. It's been clearly explained to them how escrow works, and even basic banking fundementals, and they continue to play word games and dance around the questions. It has been one of the best trolled threads I have ever witnessed in my time on the net.

And if they don't know, then their bank will....

[ClusterBoy]

i also seem to spot some yellow writing above the right hand side of the black mas nameplate, indicating poor photoshoppery at best. but it could just be me. The fire's rather nice picture makes it difficult to see though, because of the yellowness of the lines...

edited as i don't know left from right yet...

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

So a letter -- or service of process -- addressed to

Dr.. Muhammad Arshad Saleem Mas
Iqbal Homeopathic Clinic
Near Committee Office
Main Market, Kharian
Pakistan

will reach him, as required for your challenge?

Is there a facsimile number? Transcontinental mail -- especially to the developing world -- can be both slow and unreliable.

The only Iqbal Homeopathic Clinic that googles, and does not return a forum hit is this:
Name: IQBAL HOMEOPATHIC CLINIC
Profession: Nutritionists
Address:
Tel: (905) 796-2108, or (905) 867-7424
http://www.torontomuslims.com/directory/professionals_display.asp?profession=Nutritionists

The only google hits for "Muhammad Arshad Saleem Mas" are on this forum.

This site http://www.geocities.com/pulsnet2000/pakdoctors/docpunj.htm
yields
Dr. Muhammad Arshad
HOMOEO TREATMENT CENTRE
48/22 WAHEEDPARK, ABDULLAHPUR, FAISALABAD
Punjab, 38060, Pakistan
Tel: 0092-41-723918

H/Dr. Muhammad Arshad
Reshida Homeopathy Famialy Clinic
St No. 8 Bangash Colony, Pir Wadhaye
Rawalpindi, Pakistan
Tel: 051-5477024
E-mail: hdrarshad@msn.com
Heart and Skin, Experience 3 Years

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Note the Address:
Dr. MAS
Iqbal Homeopathic Clinic
Near Committee Office
Main Market, Kharian
Pakistan

What postcode is that? Also, as an item of interest to me, what time is it where you are posting?

[kieran]

The last date to receive applications is 7th march 2006

This deadline interests me.

Does it mean if someone proved, beyond question, that homeopathy is complete b@ll@cks (sorry I mean indistinguishable from placebo) ... but their application was received on the 8th March 2006 ... you could then state that it was an invalid proof and you could continue going "la la la" with your fingers in your ears pretending that the real world doesn't exist?

[Hitch]

This deadline interests me.

Does it mean if someone proved, beyond question, that homeopathy is complete b@ll@cks (sorry I mean indistinguishable from placebo) ... but their application was received on the 8th March 2006 ... you could then state that it was an invalid proof and you could continue going "la la la" with your fingers in your ears pretending that the real world doesn't exist?
If a thing is true on March 7th it is true forevermore.

[kieran]

The CD we received two in a months have all the activities of MAS organization. He has got uncountable shields certifcates and medals. How may you will change? ;)

Uncountable ... an amount that cannot be counted ... too many to count ... crikey that's quite a lot isn't it?

I got an uncountable number of swimming badges and medals when I was little ... however they are uncountable because they I don't have them any more. I think my mum threw them away when I moved out.

Is MAS' shields, certificates and medals collection uncountable for the same reason? Get him to ask his mum where she put them, or just have a root around at the bottom of some drawers he hasn't been in for a while ...

[kieran]

Enough of my quips.

Back to the original point of this thread ... what do you reckon to my chances if I apply (before the deadline) with the statement that Dr MAS(sive waste of time) cannot prove the homeopathy works in a regulated double blind trial by 7th April 2006 (one month past the deadline)?

Do you think my statement (with observations that he hasn't done so so far and shows no sign of doing so in the near or distant future) will turn out to be incorrect?

[kieran]

Quick observation on the nature of the JREF prize and MAS "prize" on offer.

Have you thought of how much MAS stands to lose if someone actually wins his million dollar offer? Not just the prize but also his livelihood from the money he scams out of poor uneducated people who are gullable enough to swallow the homeopathy thing. This prize can only be unclaimed or destructive to MAS. It doesn't prove that homeopathy works and you can't just say it does because you said so.

On the flip side, if someone won the Randi prize, after the initial shock wore off, the whole JREF community would embark on a fantastic exciting adventure of discovery with whatever paranormal claim won it. We would all gain something .. that's why the prize is offered. I think the E in JREF was well chosen.

[The_Fire]

i also seem to spot some yellow writing above the right hand side of the black mas nameplate, indicating poor photoshoppery at best. but it could just be me. The fire's rather nice picture makes it difficult to see though, because of the yellowness of the lines...

edited as i don't know left from right yet...
*pulls up the original picture minus the yellow gridlines. Squints. Squints harder. Resizes the thing. Runs an unsharp mask to enhance edge treshold. Cuts out the area in question.*
It does look like there's something there, despite the compression artefacts, doesn't it? ETA: Possibly an engraving..

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Does the money exist?

Given that "When we say Dr. MAS then we do not know who is mas" do you understand the need for us to have some proof that the money exists? What can you offer in proof that the money exists?

i also seem to spot some yellow writing above the right hand side of the black mas nameplate, indicating poor photoshoppery at best. but it could just be me. The fire's rather nice picture makes it difficult to see though, because of the yellowness of the lines...

edited as i don't know left from right yet...

All the pictures are real and without modification. All are available at WHCC CDs. You can get FREE.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

All the pictures are real and without modification. All are available at WHCC CDs. You can get FREE.

What does WHCC stand for again?

[Dr. A Sheikh]

What does WHCC stand for again?

http://www.otherhealth.com/showthread.php?t=5350&highlight=seminar

World Homeopathic Computer Club

[Hitch]

http://www.otherhealth.com/showthread.php?t=5350&highlight=seminar

World Homeopathic Computer Club
What's a Homeopathic Computer? Is that like 1 cycle per second diluted a billion times to give you a 1 Ghz processor?

[LTC8K6]

http://www.communitypk.com/drmas/

[LTC8K6]

Gee, I wonder if that mic was pasted in there.... I just can't tell.... Hmmmmm... Somebody help me...

http://us.geocities.com/ninjaforall/drmas1.jpg

[The_Fire]

http://www.communitypk.com/drmas/

According to that entry, one of these two bank branches should be able to help us....

http://www.bankalfalah.com/showbranch.asp?city=16&branchid=28


http://www.bankalfalah.com/showbranch.asp?city=42&branchid=118

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Well, from my cursory examination the person in the pictures on page 5, does appear similar to the picture here:
http://www.communitypk.com/drmas/

What I find interesting is that nchpakistan.com is registered to a Pakistani address. But, nch.ipbfree.com, which is supposed to be a sister site, is registered to New Jersey, USA

The Ministry of Health site for Pakistan is http://www.pakistan.gov.pk/ministries/index.jsp?MinID=22&cPath=251
On which, under Departments, you can see http://www.pakistan.gov.pk/ministries/MinDep.jsp?MinID=22&cPath=251
"National Council for Homeopathy, Rawalpindi. " but, at least in my secure browsers, links to nothing and attempting to search for homeopathy on the site yields a 404.


I will reiterate my earlier request, what is the postcode for your address and what is the time where you are making your posts?

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Arkan, don't waste your time in searching anything on google. I am already providing enough information to you then why are you searching? You inquired from me I will provide you correct info. We pakistani do not hide anything.

[The_Fire]

Gee, I wonder if that mic was pasted in there.... I just can't tell.... Hmmmmm... Somebody help me...

http://us.geocities.com/ninjaforall/drmas1.jpg

Does have a "halo" but that could be reflection of a badly set light....

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Arkan, don't waste your time in searching anything on google. I am already providing enough information to you then why are you searching? You inquired from me I will provide you correct info. We pakistani do not hide anything.

And we skeptics verify and corroborate information we are given before accepting it.

[The_Fire]

Arkan, don't waste your time in searching anything on google. I am already providing enough information to you then why are you searching? You inquired from me I will provide you correct info. We pakistani do not hide anything.

And you are oohhh so trustworthy, right?

[alfaniner]

Monday at 9, CBS.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Well,


I will reiterate my earlier request, what is the postcode for your address and what is the time where you are making your posts?

mine or Dr. MAS?

[Jeff Corey]

What happened to my avatar? It used to be the Ugliest Dog, but now has metamorphized into to a Quackistani.

[Z]

OK, just got to the 'awards'...

Interesting that the one awared spells it 'homoeo'... :D

And, yes, these were digitally edited, at some point.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

mine or Dr. MAS?
Dr. MAS' post code. Your time.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Dr. MAS' post code. Your time.

What relation is the Kamal Laboratory to MAS? What its location as well please.

[LTC8K6]

Poor photo doctoring seems to be at epidemic proportions....

http://www.communitypk.com/drmas/showpot.jpg

[The_Fire]

that is absolutely horryfyingly bad.........

[LTC8K6]

So is this:

http://www.communitypk.com/cpk/ltr2-3.jpg

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

More inconsistencies. The communitypk.com website says Kamal Laboratory was opened in Pakistan in 1968. Yet, the only info I can find on such is on the communitypk.com website. Opening the seach shows a Kamal Laboratory in India, est in 1994, which appears to be a laboratory supplies distributor of sorts.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Dr. MAS' post code. Your time. 50700

[Hitch]

Arkan, don't waste your time in searching anything on google. I am already providing enough information to you then why are you searching? You inquired from me I will provide you correct info. We pakistani do not hide anything.
Oh yes. We believe everthing you say.

When we say Dr. MAS then we do not know who is mas.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

What relation is the Kamal Laboratory to MAS? What its location as well please.

No link no relationship

[Dr. A Sheikh]

More inconsistencies. The communitypk.com website says Kamal Laboratory was opened in Pakistan in 1968. Yet, the only info I can find on such is on the communitypk.com website. Opening the seach shows a Kamal Laboratory in India, est in 1994, which appears to be a laboratory supplies distributor of sorts.

kamal lab is the number one leading homeopathic manufacturing unit in Pakistan. www.kamallab.com (http://www.kamallab.com)

[Hitch]

Does anyone else wonder if we even have any homeopaths posting on this forum? This seems to be too ridiculous for even a quack doctor. It's beginning to read more like a sophomoric internet prank.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

ltc dont put large image. very difficult to read

[LTC8K6]

KAMAL LABORATORIES HOMOEO
Sukho, Teh. Gujar Khan, Distt. Rawalpindi
Ph: Off: 0571-565001, Res: 0303-7553646
Dealer: MEDICINES, HOMOEOPATHIC
Importer: MEDICINES, HOMOEOPATHIC
Manufacturer: HOMOEOPATHIC

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Does anyone else wonder if we even have any homeopaths posting on this forum? This seems to be too ridiculous for even a quack doctor. It's beginning to read more like a sophomoric internet prank.

I will send posts till you will demand not to send anything more. A stage will come when you will all tired up but I don't.

I again repeat don't waste your time in irrelevent searching in google or posting irrelevent inquiries. Lot of info is provided to you. Now come to the actual prize notification, how many days are gone and no application is received.

This means you have accepted your defeat? don't you?

[Hitch]

ltc dont put large image. very difficult to read
Yes. Homeopathically enhance that image down to about 10px by 10px, that'll make it much easier to read.

[Hitch]

I will send posts till you will demand not to send anything more. A stage will come when you will all tired up but I don't.

I again repeat don't waste your time in irrelevent searching in google or posting irrelevent inquiries. Lot of info is provided to you. Now come to the actual prize notification, how many days are gone and no application is received.

This means you have accepted your defeat? don't you?
No. We've won and already collected the prize. You don't have it anymore and don't even realize it.

Prove me wrong.

[Anti_Hypeman]

I have won the Dr. MAS challenge! No going on the back porch.

[alfaniner]

Hey, here's another award he's won!

[The_Fire]

I'm almost gratefull for my BF for comming down with that virus now. This is fun.
I'm also rather surprised that the letter is in english as the official language of Punjab, as a part of Pakistan, is Urdu.
In India, on the other hand, English is considered second of the two official languages.

Sources for writing direction:
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-scripts

[LTC8K6]

Asad Parvez Qureshi
Kamal Laboratories Pakistan,
Sukho Distt. Rawalpindi, Pakistan.

This guy seems to be behind Kamal Labs.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

the last date of submision of appl is 7th feb 2006. till then bye.... If you have a serious quesiton post it directly at www.nch.ipbfree.com (http://www.nch.ipbfree.com) forum. MAS will reply. To me this topic is closed.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

come to new thread "These are homeopathic medicines? (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=52321) These are homeopathic medicines? (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=52321) These are homeopathic medicines? (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=52321) "

[The_Fire]

the last date of submision of appl is 7th feb 2006. till then bye.... If you have a serious quesiton post it directly at www.nch.ipbfree.com (http://www.nch.ipbfree.com) forum. MAS will reply. To me this topic is closed.

Game. Set. Match. And no answers to wether or not the MAS collective actually have access to the money.
Anyone seen my canister of Troll-Be-Gone?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

kamal lab is the number one leading homeopathic manufacturing unit in Pakistan. www.kamallab.com (http://www.kamallab.com)

RE postal code info above:
KHARIAN CANTT.
GUJRAT GPO
50070

Regarding your link, it goes to http://searchportal.information.com/?a_id=2313&domainname=kamallab.com
Which is a domain squatter/registrar.

[Complexity]

I don't know. Maybe because Homeopathy doesn't exist? Or maybe it does but they don't succeed for some other reason. I have no idea. I know nothing about homeopathy and I am in no position to comment.

Then why oh why are you commenting?

[Mojo]

What I was trying to convince you that a bank is not the real evidence to show of money. The bank alfalah has not connection with the prize money. Neither the money was in the bank. I told you Dr. MAS hold no account in any bank what so ever.So why the hell do you keep wittering on about the bank?

[Nucular]

Asad Parvez Qureshi
Kamal Laboratories Pakistan,
Sukho Distt. Rawalpindi, Pakistan.

This guy seems to be behind Kamal Labs.
Qureshi! Yeah I remember him.

Intriguing that Sheikh's asked you twice to stop googling, LTC8K6 - never heard a more valid reason to continue in my life.

[Mojo]

Yes Dr. MAS has arranged un-accountable seminars, symposiums, workshops and medical camps. I take it that you don't know what "unacountable" means. Although it seem to fit here.

[Mojo]

When we say Dr. MAS then we do not know who is mas. This you must understand before asking any question.Lewt's get this straight then: you are claiming that Dr. MAS is offering a prize, but you have no evidence that the prize exists and you don't know who Dr. MAS is. Right?

[Mojo]

This deadline interests me.

Does it mean if someone proved, beyond question, that homeopathy is complete b@ll@cks (sorry I mean indistinguishable from placebo) ... but their application was received on the 8th March 2006 ... you could then state that it was an invalid proof and you could continue going "la la la" with your fingers in your ears pretending that the real world doesn't exist?Oh hell, they'll do this whenever the application is received.

[Mojo]

What happened to my avatar? It used to be the Ugliest Dog, but now has metamorphized into to a Quackistani.What makes you think it isn't also still the ugliest dog?

[Mojo]

the last date of submision of appl is 7th feb 2006. till then bye.... Er... that was over a week before you posted this, you clown. Are you expecting people to apply retrospectively?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Qureshi! Yeah I remember him.

Intriguing that Sheikh's asked you twice to stop googling, LTC8K6 - never heard a more valid reason to continue in my life.

He told me not to bother googling either. :boggled:

[LTC8K6]

He told me not to post large pictures, too.

I wonder if I will obey? :)

[Dr. MAS]

Er... that was over a week before you posted this, you clown. Are you expecting people to apply retrospectively?

It is 7th march 2006.

[Jeff Corey]

Pay not attention to that man. It is not the real Dr Mas. Check my avatar.

[Dr. MAS]

Lewt's get this straight then: you are claiming that Dr. MAS is offering a prize, but you have no evidence that the prize exists and you don't know who Dr. MAS is. Right?

Read my signature. I am the only homeopath of the world whose information is not hidden. Everything is open.

[AnotherSillyAlias]

Read my signature. I am the only homeopath of the world whose information is not hidden. Everything is open.

What you are is an idiot and a scammer.

It's starting to get embarrassing watching people make a fool out of you time and time again. Then again, your complete lack of integrity makes it difficult to feel sorry for you.

[Hitch]

It is 7th march 2006.
Can you prove it?

[Hitch]

Read my signature. I am the only homeopath of the world whose information is not hidden. Everything is open.


"When we say Dr. MAS then we do not know who is mas. This you must understand before asking any question."

[alfaniner]

OK, this one is going down with the Paul Bethke, latinijral aka w/Carlos Swett, Rouser2, and Michael Anda (aka GSIC audio critic) threads in the JREF Hall of Knuckleheads. I might add the Girl with X-Ray Eyes to that one also.

[LTC8K6]

Read my signature. I am the only homeopath of the world whose information is not hidden. Everything is open.

Stop ordering people about already and respond to the questions that have been asked of your collective.

[Mojo]

Read my signature. I am the only homeopath of the world whose information is not hidden. Everything is open.MAS, perhaps you should concentrate on assisting Sheikh to prove that homoeopathy works in a double blinded trial. Remember, you have promised to quit homoeopathy (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1407099#post1407099) if this isn't accomplished. Perhaps we can use the same closing date for this as you are using for applications for your "prize".

[Dragon]

This thread has now entered Monty Python 'cheese shop' territory, perhaps it will end in a similar fashion -

...
MOUSEBENDER:
Have you in fact got any cheese here at all?
WENSLEYDALE:
Yes, sir.
MOUSEBENDER:
Really?

(pause)
WENSLEYDALE:
No. Not really, sir.
MOUSEBENDER:
You haven't.
WENSLEYDALE:
No, sir, not a scrap. I was deliberately wasting your time, sir.
MOUSEBENDER:
Well, I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to shoot you.
WENSLEYDALE:
Right-O, sir.
MOUSEBENDER:
(Shoots him) What a senseless waste of human life.

oh - the link (http://www.phespirit.info/montypython/cheese_shop.htm)

[Jocce]

Well maybe Sheiky can check if my application arrived safely. I followed the instructions to the letter. It wasn't really that hard a challenge. Especially with rule Number No. 4a:

First write down the claim which you want to prove? To make an easy task and accessible for everyone, we are not offering anything to prove. Just tell us what you want to prove and submit. WHCC prize for One Million "Dollar" (Amount Increased) is applicable for everything which you want to prove.

My claim is that WHCC will not award me the prize based on that claim. The proof is in the outcome (ie. in the hands of WHCC). Send me a PM for the details you need to transfer the prize money to my account.

[Ririon]

Read my signature. I am the only homeopath of the world whose information is not hidden. Everything is open.
Quite on the contrary. Your signature contains nothing but your "title", your "name" and two useless links. Anybody in the world can pick up their local yellow pages and find complete contact information for several homeopaths (At least 21 are listed in my home town. If I bothered with a google, I could probably find several functional websites. So that is just two more blatant lies from you.

[Nucular]

He told me not to bother googling either. :boggled:
Yes, I meant to include you both - long may ye google the MAS Collective!

Actually, I wonder if some of the doctored stuff you churned up, particularly that letter, might break several laws in Pakistan?

What say you, MAS?

[Complexity]

Read my signature. I am the only homeopath of the world whose information is not hidden. Everything is open.
You're so special ! :D

[The_Fire]

Yes, I meant to include you both - long may ye google the MAS Collective!

Actually, I wonder if some of the doctored stuff you churned up, particularly that letter, might break several laws in Pakistan?

What say you, MAS?

well, I'm not sure about Pakistan, but in Denmark it's called "forgery" and "impersonation" not to mention possible "identity theft".
Around here that means jailtime and I don't think the Pakistani jails are all that comfortable.....

[Nucular]

Read my signature. I am the only homeopath of the world whose information is not hidden. Everything is open.
Actually, a quick glance at the Yellow Pages shows that there are in fact four homeopaths in my hometown alone who publish their real names, telephone numbers and addresses.

Even Sheikh admits he hasn't a clue who you are, and he claims to have met you. One minute you're too old to type, the next you're pretending to be being interviewed on the news about some bank fire. We've got probably forged documents you've posted about yourself on the net, and a fraudulent scam described in this thread in which you falsely claim to have a million dollars to give away.

I've never met anyone less open than you, MAS.

However, you seem to have missed my questions I asked you directly, so I'll post them again:

1) What currency is the million dollars in?

2) Does it still exist?

3) If so, where is it?

Thanks.

[Nucular]

well, I'm not sure about Pakistan, but in Denmark it's called "forgery" and "impersonation" not to mention possible "identity theft".
Around here that means jailtime and I don't think the Pakistani jails are all that comfortable.....
Absolutely. I was also wondering about the additional charges which may be relevant to the apparent use of a Pakistani Health Minister's headed paper too.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

We pakistani do not hide anything.

Except terrorists. :rolleyes:

[delphi_ote]

Send me a PM for the details you need to transfer the prize money to my account.

Noooo! Don't you see this has all been one long identity theft scam?!

[The_Fire]

Absolutely. I was also wondering about the additional charges which may be relevant to the apparent use of a Pakistani Health Minister's headed paper too.

Treason?

[JPK]

Good afternoon.
After reading all of the posts by Dr.Mas and Dr.A Sheikh, I am reminded of something George Carlin said in his act. Somewhere in the world is the worlds worst doctor. Has to be. I believe we may have found him.
JPK

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Well maybe Sheiky can check if my application arrived safely. I followed the instructions to the letter. It wasn't really that hard a challenge. Especially with rule Number No. 4a:

First write down the claim which you want to prove? To make an easy task and accessible for everyone, we are not offering anything to prove. Just tell us what you want to prove and submit. WHCC prize for One Million "Dollar" (Amount Increased) is applicable for everything which you want to prove.

My claim is that WHCC will not award me the prize based on that claim. The proof is in the outcome (ie. in the hands of WHCC). Send me a PM for the details you need to transfer the prize money to my account.

First write down the claim which you want to prove? To make an easy task and accessible for everyone, we are not offering anything to prove. Just tell us what you want to prove and submit. WHCC prize for One Million "Dollar" (Amount Increased) is applicable for everything which you want to prove about homeopathy.

[JPK]

Good afternoon.
First write down the claim which you want to prove? To make an easy task and accessible for everyone, we are not offering anything to prove. Just tell us what you want to prove and submit. WHCC prize for One Million "Dollar" (Amount Increased) is applicable for everything which you want to prove about homeopathy.

Will you be changing the rules with each application like you clearly did above?
JPK

[The_Fire]

And where's the evidence that the money actually exists?

[AnotherSillyAlias]

First write down the claim which you want to prove? To make an easy task and accessible for everyone, we are not offering anything to prove. Just tell us what you want to prove and submit. WHCC prize for One Million "Dollar" (Amount Increased) is applicable for everything which you want to prove about homeopathy.

With every single message you people send you prove even more conclusively what dishonest scammers you all are.

You make up some rules and when somebody applies you CHANGE THE RULES.

Worthless scumbags, the lot of you. You are a joke and nothing more than a troll.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Good afternoon.


Will you be changing the rules with each application like you clearly did above?
JPK

NO- this was already written in the same thread somewhere. I just repeated here again.

[AnotherSillyAlias]

NO- this was already written in the same thread somewhere. I just repeated here again.

OK, where is the link to the thread?

If it was in another thread "somewhere", why isn't it in the rules? Are we supposed to go looking around "somewhere" and put the rules together like some sort of jigsaw puzzle?

[JPK]

Good afternoon.
NO- this was already written in the same thread somewhere. I just repeated here again. Thank you for your response. I refer you to your opening post on this thread. http://www.randi.org/forumlive/images/icons/icon14.gif Is there anyone who is interested in One Million Dollar Prize Money?
Dr. MAS organization has offered One Million Dollar prize money.

Number No. 1: I have no objection on JREF prize. But we are now in a position to award you prizes rather to take prizes. If you are interested to win the pirze then we also offer you the same amount.

Number No. 2: You also have chance to prove homeopaths wrong on the same terms and conditions. You can also get rich.

Number No. 3: We don't need your assistance in filing an application but we offer you if you want our assistance we are ready to assist you so that you can directly apply to WHCC.

Number No. 4: We have removed all the hurdles of the provers / challengers. The process is very simple:

a. First write down the claim which you want to prove? To make an easy task and accessible for everyone, we are not offering anything to prove. Just tell us what you want to prove and submit. WHCC prize for One Million "Dollar" (Amount Increased) is applicable for everything which you want to prove.

b. Submit your claim and proving along with your complete CV in written at our office located at Kharian Pakistan.

Number No. 5: We have settled the problem of homeopathy for ever.

There is no issue.

a. Homeopathic potencies and medicines have material.


b. The physiological action of the homeopathic medicines are same as it is admissible in allopathy.

The problem is solved. No issue left.

http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=584


If any body wants my assistance I am here to provide you help.

As I was saying, will these rules continue to evolve with each application?
JPK

[The_Fire]

And where's the evidence that the money actually exists?

I quote myself....

[Z]

People, I say we have grounds for a lawsuit! Yay!

[Hitch]

I want to know how one can make an offer on behalf of another individual whom one does not even know if exists -- especially involving a large sum of money, existence of which is even less certain that of the aforementioned individual.

[LTC8K6]

Maybe this guy knows something..

Dr Azeem Abbas syed
Kamal Labs.
#695, st. 33. I-8/ 4, Islamabad, Pakistan
Tel: +923004678532
E-mail: azeemabbas1@yahoo.com
Experience 6 years (Appprox.)

[LTC8K6]

That Kamal labs link has changed. I guess someone bought it. Now it shows up as under construction and it's registered. It wasn't a few days ago.



http://www.kamallabs.com/ = [ 12.168.39.132 ]
Domain Name.......... kamallabs.com
Creation Date........ 2006-02-02
Registration Date.... 2006-02-02
Expiry Date.......... 2007-02-02
Organisation Name.... Kamal Laboratories
Organisation Address. H no 170 St 9 Chaklala Sch 3
Organisation Address. Rawalpindi
Organisation Address. Rawalpindi
Organisation Address. 44000
Organisation Address. Punjab
Organisation Address. PAKISTAN
Admin Name........... Kamal Laboratories Kamal Laboratories
Admin Address........ H no 170 St 9 Chaklala Sch 3
Admin Address........ Rawalpindi
Admin Address........ Rawalpindi
Admin Address........ 44000
Admin Address........ Punjab
Admin Address........ PAKISTAN
Admin Email.......... wasif@digitalspinners.com
Admin Phone.......... 925.1111001967
Admin Fax............
Tech Name............ Kamal Laboratories Kamal Laboratories
Tech Address......... H no 170 St 9 Chaklala Sch 3
Tech Address......... Rawalpindi
Tech Address......... Rawalpindi
Tech Address......... 44000
Tech Address......... Punjab
Tech Address......... PAKISTAN
Tech Email........... wasif@digitalspinners.com
Tech Phone........... 925.1111001967
Tech Fax.............
Name Server.......... ns1.vhostnix11.com
Name Server.......... ns2.vhostnix11.com

[LTC8K6]

www.drmas.org = [ 69.10.154.112 ]
Domain ID: D108004990-LROR
Domain Name: DRMAS.ORG
Created On: 29-Oct-2005 11: 19: 05 UTC
Last Updated On: 18-Feb-2006 12: 01: 52 UTC
Expiration Date: 29-Oct-2006 11: 19: 05 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar: OnlineNIC Inc. (R64-LROR)
Status: CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant ID: ONLC-1862479-4
Registrant Name: Shahzad Khan
Registrant Organization: CyberXperts Technologies
Registrant Street1: Logic Computer System Muhammadi Chowk Jehlum
Registrant Street2: Logic Computer System Muhammadi Chowk Jehlum
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City: Jhelum
Registrant State/Province: Punjab
Registrant Postal Code: 49600
Registrant Country: PK
Registrant Phone: 92.3335858007
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX: 92.544612626
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email: verisoon@msn.com
Admin ID: ONLC-1862479-1
Admin Name: Shahzad Khan
Admin Organization: CyberXperts Technologies
Admin Street1: Logic Computer System Muhammadi Chowk Jehlum
Admin Street2: Logic Computer System Muhammadi Chowk Jehlum
Admin Street3:
Admin City: Jhelum
Admin State/Province: Punjab
Admin Postal Code: 49600
Admin Country: PK
Admin Phone: 92.3335858007
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX: 92.544612626
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email: verisoon@msn.com
Tech ID: ONLC-1862479-2
Tech Name: Shahzad Khan
Tech Organization: CyberXperts Technologies
Tech Street1: Logic Computer System Muhammadi Chowk Jehlum
Tech Street2: Logic Computer System Muhammadi Chowk Jehlum
Tech Street3:
Tech City: Jhelum
Tech State/Province: Punjab
Tech Postal Code: 49600
Tech Country: PK
Tech Phone: 92.3335858007
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech FAX: 92.544612626
Tech FAX Ext.:
Tech Email: verisoon@msn.com
Name Server: NS1.HOSTINGCARE.NET
Name Server: NS2.HOSTINGCARE.NET

[LTC8K6]

http://www.drmas.tk/ = [ 217.115.203.21 ]
Rights restricted by copyright. See
http://www.dot.tk/vc001100.html
Domain name:
DRMAS.TK
Organisation:
Taloha Inc
Dot TK administrator
584 Castro Street 260
94114 San Francisco
United States
Phone: 31 20 5315725
Fax: 31 20 5315721
E-mail: abuse: abuse@dot.tk copyright infringement: copyright@dot.tk
Domain Nameservers:
NS-A.TALOHA.TK
NS-B.TALOHA.TK
NS-C.TALOHA.TK
Your selected domain name is a FREEDOMAIN.TK That means that
according to the terms and conditions of FREEDOMAIN.TK domain names
the registrant is Taloha Inc. in San Francisco.
Due to restrictions in Dot TK's Privacy Statement personal information
about the user of the domain name cannot be released.
ABUSE OF A DOMAIN NAME
If you want to report abuse of this domain name please send a
detailed email with your complaint to abuse@dot.tk.
In most cases Dot TK responds to abuse complaints within one business day.
COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT
If you want to report a case of copyright infringement please send
an email to copyright@dot.tk and include the full name and address of
your organization. Within 5 business days copyright infringement notices
will be investigated.
Record maintained by: Dot TK Domain Registry

[LTC8K6]

http://www.naturalpatient.com/homeopathic_remedymaker.htm

I'm going to make a lot more than a million dollars.....

Whatta we need the MASBORG for anyway???? :D

[Nucular]

http://www.naturalpatient.com/homeopathic_remedymaker.htm
It must be good, cos they checked by dowsing...


LTC, ant chance you could translate all that data about those domain names for those of us who are less tech-savvie? What are the important bits, and what do they mean?

[Dr. A Sheikh]

http://www.drmas.tk/
ABUSE OF A DOMAIN NAME
If you want to report abuse of this domain name please send a
detailed email with your complaint to abuse@dot.tk.
In most cases Dot TK responds to abuse complaints within one business day.
COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT
If you want to report a case of copyright infringement please send
an email to copyright@dot.tk and include the full name and address of
your organization. Within 5 business days copyright infringement notices
will be investigated.
Record maintained by: Dot TK Domain Registry

Then? what will happen?:p

[Nucular]

Sheikh,
I couldn't help but notice that you still haven't changed your lying signature. Why is this?

PS where's the money?

[The_Fire]

Yes ,kindly provide evidence of the money...

[Mojo]

Then? what will happen?:pYou'd better ask MAS (if you can figure out who he is): it's his website, after all.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Then? what will happen?:p

It was a cut and paste from the whois information you 'tard, not something (s)he added as a comment.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

It was a cut and paste from the whois information you 'tard, not something (s)he added as a comment.

What purpose does it serve? Everybody already knows about that info. This your family member is just consuming the space and nothing else. I have also reported to dot.tk about MAS domain. Lets wait when dot.tk will remove his domain.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

You'd better ask MAS (if you can figure out who he is): it's his website, after all.

That is not his web site, it was made by his student for him. MAS has not control over it. MAS owns www.drmas.org (http://www.drmas.org) and www.drmas.com (http://www.drmas.com) only.

[Jeff Corey]

Those must be homeopathic web site links, because they don't work at all.

[Donks]

Those must be homeopathic web site links, because they don't work at all.
Par for the course.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Sheikh,
I couldn't help but notice that you still haven't changed your lying signature. Why is this?

PS where's the money?

Ok I am going to change my true signature with this one.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Those must be homeopathic web site links, because they don't work at all.

These are working.

[Ririon]

Ok I am going to change my true signature with this one.
Nice of you to change the sig finally. It's still a lie, but now it's a lie about Pakistani homeopaths and not about skeptics. :)

[Donks]

These are working.
Not really.

[Admiral]

Dr. Sheikh, the fact remains that no one wants to send their private information to Pakistan based on a known liar's word that they could be given a million dollars.

Think of it this way- if I were in Brooklyn, and someone came out of an alley and told me that if I gave him fifty dollars, he'd come back ten minutes later with a thousand- it would hardly be a good idea. Now, you're not asking us to send money, but as some people pointed out, you could be setting something up for identity theft.

Since there is NO proof that the money's actually there (except your word, which we don't trust a bit), we have no reason to trust you. We ask for a bank statement- you say that the money isn't in a bank. So where is the money, in cash? (Seems less safe than a bank, fires or no fires, but fine.) At least tell us WHERE it is, even if you can't prove it. Is it in a safe? In Dr. Mas's pocket? See, no one believes it exists, and your inability to give any specifics about it doesn't change our opinions.

Edit- fixed spelling mistake.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

What purpose does it serve? Everybody already knows about that info. This your family member is just consuming the space and nothing else. I have also reported to dot.tk about MAS domain. Lets wait when dot.tk will remove his domain.

It's purpose, not unlike what I explained earlier, is to allow us to verify or debunk information provided by you. Skeptics do not take information at face value. We verify, corroberate, cross-reference, and do what is possible to ensure that the information we are working from is accurate.

edit: And you still haven't answered the question of what time it is where you are posting from. Ideally you would say "This post, is being written at time...."

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Dr. Sheikh, the fact remains that no one wants to send their private information to Pakistan based on a known liar's word that they could be given a million dollars.

No problem you can send claim without your CV but in case of win you won't get prize. Obviously when we have no address or person name we cannot send the prize money.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Not really.

Yes click on it. these are working. but your required information is not there. But actually these links are working. LC also told you so many information about account.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Yes click on it. these are working. but your required information is not there. But actually these links are working. LC also told you so many information about account.

This, "
This is the placeholder for domain drmas.org. If you see this page after uploading site content you probably have not replaced the index.html file.

This page has been automatically generated by Plesk.
"

And this, "www.drmas.com
This page is parked free, courtesy of WildWestRegistry.com
Popular Categories

Travel
Cheap Flights
Travel Insurance
Hotels
Car Rental
Cruises
Financial Planning
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Debt Consolidation
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VoIP
Web Design

Lifestyle
Dating
Personals
Singles
Chat
Vacations
Real Estate
Mortgages
Home Insurance
Home Equity Loans
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Number Plates
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Business
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Business Cards
Buildings Insurance
Conference Calls
CRM
Gifts
Flowers
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E Cards
Diamond Rings
Gift Baskets
Personal Finances
Jobs
Student Loans
Work from Home
Personal Loans
Checks

Computers
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Mp3 Players
Music Downloads
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DSL
Health and Beauty
Contact Lenses
Health Insurance
Cosmetic Surgery
Hair Replacement
Laser Eye Surgery
Shopping
Free Ringtones
Mobile Phones
Digital Cameras
Office Furniture
Bed






"

Is not "working". They are glorified 404 errors. Stop playing wordgames you con-artist.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Nice of you to change the sig finally. It's still a lie, but now it's a lie about Pakistani homeopaths and not about skeptics. :)

No this is all about skeptics. Pakistanis are offering you one million dollar to prove anything which in your sense can not be proved in homeopathy. This is a direct slap by MAS.org on skeptics. The prize of jref is very difficult to get. first the real object about homeopathy is not clear by jref. The conditions are so strong. Next you have to travel from Pakistan to abroad. WHCC prize is not demanding anything from you. Just finalize your object. Do your experiment. Don't show to any body. Write up the details on paper. Sum up in conclusion. Send it by post along with your CV and get prize. So simple.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

... Pakistanis are offering you one million dollar to prove anything which in your sense can not be proved in homeopathy.
Proving a negative is generally considered a logical fallacy.


This is a direct slap by MAS.org on skeptics.

No, it is trolling.


The prize of jref is very difficult to get.

Yes, you can't swindle someone out of it, you have to earn it legimately. I can see why you would view that as "difficult".


first the real object about homeopathy is not clear by jref.

You have to define what you are going to prove as happening, agree upon a protocol, and test it. What is unclear?


The conditions are so strong.

wtf does this mean?


Next you have to travel from Pakistan to abroad.

No you don't. You just need to have a mutally agreed upon neutral, third-party observer.


WHCC prize is not demanding anything from you. Just finalize your object. Do your experiment. Don't show to any body. Write up the details on paper. Sum up in conclusion. Send it by post along with your CV and get prize. So simple.
"There's so such thing as a free lunch" and that is what you are offering. Ergo, odds are there is a catch or a exploit in the wings.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

This, "
This is the placeholder for domain drmas.org. If you see this page after uploading site content you probably have not replaced the index.html file.

This page has been automatically generated by Plesk.
"

And this, "www.drmas.com
This page is parked free, courtesy of WildWestRegistry.com
Popular Categories

Is not "working". They are glorified 404 errors. Stop playing wordgames you con-artist.

The defination of working is also different to you . When you click on www.drmas.com (http://www.drmas.com) you see page with many further links but if you click on www.drmasss.com (http://www.drmasss.com) following message appears

Sorry, no Web address available - web site not found "

How can you say, www.drmas.com (http://www.drmas.com) is not working.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

No you don't. You just need to have a mutally agreed upon neutral, third-party observer.

Explain how?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

The defination of working is also different to you . When you click on www.drmas.com (http://www.drmas.com) you see page with many further links but if you click on www.drmasss.com (http://www.drmasss.com) following message appears

Sorry, no Web address available - web site not found "

How can you say, www.drmas.com (http://www.drmas.com) is not working.

For the same reason homeopaths can say their quackery does work.

Among internet-literate individuals a link to a website is considered to be "working" if, upon following the link, the website that is presented contains relevent information to the reason that the link was provided. In your case, your link would be considered "working" if it went to a website either mantained by MAS, or was about MAS.

Your semantics game is crap. Of course, your playing around with definitions is just another checkbox filled out on the list of logical fallacies you have committed since coming to these forums.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Explain how?

You do not have to travel to Fla to take part in the challenge. I'm sure Kramer can elaborate, but I know at least one person was testing in CA.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

You do not have to travel to Fla to take part in the challenge. I'm sure Kramer can elaborate, but I know at least one person was testing in CA.

Point is not clear. does it allowed in Pakistan or not? if yes, a plan can be set here both for skeptics and homeopaths

Homeopaths will prove homeopathy and skeptics will disapprove homeopathy. Earlier it was in my mind that an experiment cannot be done in pakistan.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Point is not clear. does it allowed in Pakistan or not? if yes, a plan can be set here both for skeptics and homeopaths

Homeopaths will prove homeopathy and skeptics will disapprove homeopathy. Earlier it was in my mind that an experiment cannot be done in pakistan.

My understanding is, so long as the applicant and JREF can agree upon the third-party observer and a location that allows for testing under controlled conditions, it can take place at any geographic location. Again, ASK KRAMER that is part of Kramer's role is to answer these damned questions so you don't have to ask a forum full of people that are not representatives of JREF.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

For the same reason homeopaths can say their quackery does work.

Among internet-literate individuals a link to a website is considered to be "working" if, upon following the link, the website that is presented contains relevent information to the reason that the link was provided. In your case, your link would be considered "working" if it went to a website either mantained by MAS, or was about MAS.

Your semantics game is crap. Of course, your playing around with definitions is just another checkbox filled out on the list of logical fallacies you have committed since coming to these forums.

Again you are wrong. you are saying if the web site name is www.drmas.com (http://www.drmas.com) then it must contain info about drmas .... wrong

You say, the link should be maintained by mas then it is working .... wrong... if mas has intentionally put the index file to a page having links and put it on sale then would you again consider it NOT WORKING.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

My understanding is, so long as the applicant and JREF can agree upon the third-party observer and a location that allows for testing under controlled conditions, it can take place at any geographic location. Again, ASK KRAMER that is part of Kramer's role is to answer these damned questions so you don't have to ask a forum full of people that are not representatives of JREF.

Ask him from my side. will they allow a test on homeopathy at lahore Pakistan. So that I may make an arrangement. Remember, as Dr. MAS told here that we do not wish to win the prize. We want to conduct experiment without prize money.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Again you are wrong. you are saying if the web site name is www.drmas.com (http://www.drmas.com) then it must contain info about drmas .... wrong

You say, the link should be maintained by mas then it is working .... wrong... if mas has intentionally put the index file to a page having links and put it on sale then would you again consider it NOT WORKING.

When it is provided in the context of being a reference to MAS, then it damned well better contain info about him. I can give you the link http://www.drasheikhisafraud.com , but you know what, IT DOESN'T WORK because it isn't registered and has not content generated for it as a domain.

Not only do you not know a damned thing about chemistry or homeopathy, you apparently don't know a damned thing about the internet. Go back to your hutt you conman.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Ask him from my side. will they allow a test on homeopathy at lahore Pakistan. So that I may make an arrangement. Remember, as Dr. MAS told here that we do not wish to win the prize. We want to conduct experiment without prize money.

You ask him. It's your claim. I am not associated with JREF beyond the fact I post on their forums. I don't personally know Kramer, nor claim to. Or has the first dozen times a forum member explained that to you not sunk in to your snake-oil selling brain yet?

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Ask him, if we want to prove molecule of starting material in 13c potency purchased from the market then is it applicable in the prescence of j representative.

If we want to prove homeopathy does work then is this ok to proceed with an experiment?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Ask him, if we want to prove molecule of starting material in 13c potency purchased from the market then is it applicable in the prescence of j representative.

If we want to prove homeopathy does work then is this ok to proceed with an experiment?

Read this very carefully:

I. Can. Not. And. Will. Not. Ask. Him. For. You.

Do. It. Yourself.

[Ririon]

Ah... I see. This all moves drMAS.dot.whatever up the search engine rankings, and earns the MAS collective several cents from people clicking on the links. That would explain:

1. These people have no idea about what homeopathy is, even if they claim to be homeopaths.

2. Starting umpteen threads. Without anything meaningful.

3. Insisting on people following their links, even if they contain no relevant information. "Don't google, I have provided all information"...

There MAY be a forum rule about this. This is not an identity theft scam. These people (if they are more than one person) are clearly not smart enough for that. It's a click-my-ad-so-I-can-earn-3-cents scam. :D

Ririon

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Ah... I see. This all moves drMAS.dot.whatever up the search engine rankings, and earns the MAS collective several cents from people clicking on the links. That would explain:

1. These people have no idea about what homeopathy is, even if they claim to be homeopaths.

2. Starting umpteen threads. Without anything meaningful.

3. Insisting on people following their links, even if they contain no relevant information. "Don't google, I have provided all information"...

There MAY be a forum rule about this. This is not an identity theft scam. These people (if they are more than one person) are clearly not smart enough for that. It's a click-my-ad-so-I-can-earn-3-cents scam. :D

Ririon

Anyone have any thoughts as to why Darat hasn't put the virtual foot down on these yahoos?

[AnotherSillyAlias]

Anyone have any thoughts as to why Darat hasn't put the virtual foot down on these yahoos?

Obviously I can't speak for Darat but maybe he's having fun reading all the nonsense. You have to admit, virtually everything the MAS collective post is laughable!

[Admiral]

Ask him, if we want to prove molecule of starting material in 13c potency purchased from the market then is it applicable in the prescence of j representative.

If we want to prove homeopathy does work then is this ok to proceed with an experiment?

While finding molecules of solute in a 13C solution isn't expected, it is not unlikely enough to be eligible for the prize. In a 1 M solution there is expected to be 6.02 * 10^23 molecules of solvent in each liter. Therefore, when this solution is diluted by 10^26 (13c), there would be 6.02 * 10^(-3) molecules per liter. There would therefore be one molecule of solute for every 170 liters of solution. It is entirely possible, though unlikely, that these molecules ended up in the particular liter you are testing (though I'm not sure what your procedure to find these molecules is.) "Unlikely, but possible" doesn't cut it for the JREF test. Most JREF tests have a chance lower than one in a million that a positive result could be arrived at by chance. (Correct me if I'm wrong, statistics buffs.)

Why not just use a 20C solution? Finding molecules of solute in a liter of that would be extremely unlikely, and would qualify.

However, there is one other major flaw that would make this a non-paranormal claim. You say "purchased from the market." Proving that a box of homeopathic product labeled "13C" contains molecules is NOT paranormal- after all, the people that make the box could very easily be dishonest. Proving that homeopaths label their products incorrectly isn't a paranormal claim.

What you would have to do is, in front of the representative, mix your own 1 M solution, then dilute it yourself to 20C. Then, if you could somehow prove it still had molecules of the original solute in it, you would be eligible. Buying a 20C DOESN'T QUALIFY.

[Nucular]

What you would have to do is, in front of the representative, mix your own 1 M solution, then dilute it yourself to 20C. Then, if you could somehow prove it still had molecules of the original solute in it, you would be eligible. Buying a 20C DOESN'T QUALIFY.
Agreed, buying the stuff isn't in any way controlled. But as MRC_Hans, Mojo and others have pointed out, the controls required to reduce contamination to 'no molecules whatsoever' would be expensive and prohibitive. A control undergoing the same process in the same room (minus the active ingredient) to be compared to the active substance would be a good design. Tell the difference then, using any methodology, and as I understand it, you'll have a real million smackeroonies to do with what you will.

Edited to clarify what a control is.

[AnotherSillyAlias]

What you would have to do is, in front of the representative, mix your own 1 M solution, then dilute it yourself to 20C. Then, if you could somehow prove it still had molecules of the original solute in it, you would be eligible. Buying a 20C DOESN'T QUALIFY.

Would urinating into the mixing tank help in this regard?

[chance]

Good this is the first serious post.

Now prove it and send your proving detail at WHCC office. A committee comprizing of Ph.D doctors will evaluate your claim, challenge and proving detail. If they satisfy with your conclusion you will be the first winner.
What about my earlier proposal to show that you sell nothing other than water.

From the first page.

Would this be an acceptable test?

Method:

a.) Send me any 50 bottles of your homeopathic substance (all different), but all in identical containers.

b.) I will remove all labelling, and replace it with my own labelling.

c.) I will return the bottles to you

d.) The challenge is for you to tell me which one is which.

Percentage correct can be negotiated, as can a referee, but my bet is that you will not get better than a ‘statistical’ guess.

[Nucular]

What about my earlier proposal to show that you sell nothing other than water.

From the first page.

Would this be an acceptable test?

Method:

a.) Send me any 50 bottles of your homeopathic substance (all different), but all in identical containers.

b.) I will remove all labelling, and replace it with my own labelling.

c.) I will return the bottles to you

d.) The challenge is for you to tell me which one is which.

Percentage correct can be negotiated, as can a referee, but my bet is that you will not get better than a ‘statistical’ guess.
Hi Chance,
Nice idea, but what about invisible markers?

ETA: I'm pretty sure I could get 100% using that methodology; there are so many ways to mark, it makes it impractical to check, and any success could just be attributable to a fiendish marking system.

[Zep]

Dr. A. Sheikh.

http://www.trollcity.com/Around_the_World_India.JPG

[LTC8K6]

I am just keeping tabs on MASSHEIK links. The creation & reg date of kamallabs is the only thing I found interesting, actually.

That, and the fact that the drmas links are parked...

[LTC8K6]

As far as I can tell, drmas.com is not owned by drmas, nor is drmas.org....

[LTC8K6]

Registrant:
BlueSky Unlimited, Inc.
PO Box 93035
Phoenix, Arizona 85070
United States

Registered through: WildWestRegistry.com
Domain Name: DRMAS.COM
Created on: 07-Feb-04
Expires on: 07-Feb-07
Last Updated on: 07-Feb-06

Administrative Contact:
Phipps, Ted Ted@WildWestRegistry.com
BlueSky Unlimited, Inc.
PO Box 93035
Phoenix, Arizona 85070
United States
6024819400 Fax --

Technical Contact:
Phipps, Ted Ted@WildWestRegistry.com
BlueSky Unlimited, Inc.
PO Box 93035
Phoenix, Arizona 85070
United States
6024819400 Fax --

Domain servers in listed order:
PARK15.SECURESERVER.NET
PARK16.SECURESERVER.NET

[LTC8K6]

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:C3nnsZNU-HUJ:homeopathyforums.hpathy.com/get_topic.asp%3FFID%3D2%26TID%3D2473%26DIR%3DP+pak istan+w.h.c.c.&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=8


fak005
Newbie
Joined: 28 Nov. 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6 Posted: 05 Dec. 04 at 14:30 | IP Logged

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Thanks Dr shahkeel for yoru response.

Could you please provide contact information like email and tel # for Dr. Inam Mirza.

Appreciate your help

Adnan

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H Dr Shahkeel
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Nov. 03
Location: Pakistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 387 Posted: 07 Dec. 04 at 17:52 | IP Logged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mobile no. 0300 9511098 clinic no. 0541 650650 (for pakistan with city codes)

His email address is drmasvoice@hotmail.com



__________________
I Love
love for all hate for none :)
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fak005
Newbie
Joined: 28 Nov. 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6 Posted: 07 Dec. 04 at 19:06 | IP Logged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr Shahkeel:
I am little confused here
drmas@voice@hotmail.com......is this the email address of Dr. Inam Mirza or Dr MAS or are they the same persons?
it aprrears based on following post
http://www.abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/14130/
kindly update me.
thanks

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H Dr Shahkeel
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Nov. 03
Location: Pakistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 387 Posted: 08 Dec. 04 at 18:11 | IP Logged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


drmasvoice@hotmail.com is the address of a homeo colleges, computer institutes, homeopathic associations and PHS group plus WHCC group. One clerk along with seven to 10 homeopathic doctors opperate this account. When you will send your mail to Dr. Inam. The same mail address is published in UK yellow pages against doctor inam advertisement. This means he is also an operator of the account. This enough. Rest of the information is secret.

Did you talk to him on his mobile or clinic address or home address. Tell him the reference of this discussion too. He knows everything about you and your case.

His home address is 0541 652959. Talk to him today. O.K and tell me what he said. Don't be confused and be happy.

[Complexity]

Sweet. Nice work, LTC8K6.

Quack, fraud, quack, fraud.

[Jeff Corey]

Quackistani Clinic. Adrress, @00342 Bumfork Road, Lehore, PK.
Send CV and credit cards numbers, please.

[Mojo]

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:C3nnsZNU-HUJ:homeopathyforums.hpathy.com/get_topic.asp%3FFID%3D2%26TID%3D2473%26DIR%3DP+pak istan+w.h.c.c.&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=8 fak005
Newbie
Joined: 28 Nov. 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6 Posted: 05 Dec. 04 at 14:30 | IP Logged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks Dr shahkeel for yoru response.

Could you please provide contact information like email and tel # for Dr. Inam Mirza.



...snip...



fak005
Newbie
Joined: 28 Nov. 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6 Posted: 07 Dec. 04 at 19:06 | IP Logged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr Shahkeel:
I am little confused here
drmas@voice@hotmail.com......is this the email address of Dr. Inam Mirza or Dr MAS or are they the same persons?
it aprrears based on following post
http://www.abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/14130/
kindly update me.
thanks

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H Dr Shahkeel
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Nov. 03
Location: Pakistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 387 Posted: 08 Dec. 04 at 18:11 | IP Logged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


drmasvoice@hotmail.com is the address of a homeo colleges, computer institutes, homeopathic associations and PHS group plus WHCC group. One clerk along with seven to 10 homeopathic doctors opperate this account. When you will send your mail to Dr. Inam. The same mail address is published in UK yellow pages against doctor inam advertisement. This means he is also an operator of the account. This enough. Rest of the information is secret.



It appears that at least one member of the MAS collective may also practice in the UK:
posted by Dr Shahkeel:
Dr. Inam Mirza is practicing in Blackburn UK. He has treated many cases in Pakistan and few at abroad. You can see his cases here.Is anyone in Blackburn?

Incidentally, "Dr Shahkeel" is using the same avatar as MAS (http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showuser=7) currently uses on the NCH forum

[Aepervius]

HI Mr(s), how about following protocol :
I can show that you are unable to distinguish between 15X solution of different mother tincture. Does it qualify for 1 million ZWD ? The following would be the protocol :
1) you send me (to a post office : sorry I do not divulgue neither my private nor my job address) a set of 20 mother tincture. It does not matter which as long as they are dinstiguishable , and they are safe to handle (nothing poisonous, due to local laws about what can be sent per post and cost, and frankly, due to handling on my side. I do not have access to biological/chemical protection, only school material).
Quantity can be very low, as long as concentration are 1 Mole per liter.
All will be noted with a number between 1 and 20 without telling me which is what.
2) I send you back 5 of those back with 15X dilution in sample properly packed.
I will note on my side which I did choose and send it per email or per snail mail to another forum member.
3) you use back those 5 sample and anaylze/use them whatever way you see fits and tell us which one the 20 solution I originally choose.

If you are unable to distinguish 4 out 5 correctly then I win 1 million ZWD.

protocol accepted or rejected by you and why ?

(PS to other forum member, statistical question, if he was choosing at random from the 20, the chance to have at least 4 correct, remmember how to calculate it ? Might it be 5/20*4/20*3/20*2/20=0,075% chances ?)

PS: due to the time and quantity of solvent involved it might take a lot of my own time. So please only water as solvent.

PPS: this was an edit :)

[Dr. A Sheikh]

What about my earlier proposal to show that you sell nothing other than water.

From the first page.

Would this be an acceptable test?

Method:

a.) Send me any 50 bottles of your homeopathic substance (all different), but all in identical containers.

b.) I will remove all labelling, and replace it with my own labelling.

c.) I will return the bottles to you

d.) The challenge is for you to tell me which one is which.

Percentage correct can be negotiated, as can a referee, but my bet is that you will not get better than a ‘statistical’ guess.

are you talking as JREF representative?

[Dr. A Sheikh]

While finding molecules of solute in a 13C solution isn't expected, it is not unlikely enough to be eligible for the prize. In a 1 M solution there is expected to be 6.02 * 10^23 molecules of solvent in each liter. Therefore, when this solution is diluted by 10^26 (13c), there would be 6.02 * 10^(-3) molecules per liter. There would therefore be one molecule of solute for every 170 liters of solution. It is entirely possible, though unlikely, that these molecules ended up in the particular liter you are testing (though I'm not sure what your procedure to find these molecules is.) "Unlikely, but possible" doesn't cut it for the JREF test. Most JREF tests have a chance lower than one in a million that a positive result could be arrived at by chance. (Correct me if I'm wrong, statistics buffs.)

Why not just use a 20C solution? Finding molecules of solute in a liter of that would be extremely unlikely, and would qualify.

However, there is one other major flaw that would make this a non-paranormal claim. You say "purchased from the market." Proving that a box of homeopathic product labeled "13C" contains molecules is NOT paranormal- after all, the people that make the box could very easily be dishonest. Proving that homeopaths label their products incorrectly isn't a paranormal claim.

What you would have to do is, in front of the representative, mix your own 1 M solution, then dilute it yourself to 20C. Then, if you could somehow prove it still had molecules of the original solute in it, you would be eligible. Buying a 20C DOESN'T QUALIFY.

One of your member was saying you qualify on this issue and you are saying not. It means jref prize cannot be won. hmmm

[Dr. A Sheikh]

As far as I can tell, drmas.com is not owned by drmas, nor is drmas.org....

If internet is the criteria of source of info and authentication the www.drmas.org (http://www.drmas.org) is also not owned by dr.mas . www.drmas.com (http://www.drmas.com) is owned by MAS-dr your information is very poor.

[delphi_ote]

are you talking as JREF representative?

Nobody on the forum speaks as a JREF representative. You should know that already, but your collective established long ago that you have no interest in actually reading the rules around here.

[delphi_ote]

If internet is the criteria of source of info and authentication the www.drmas.org (http://www.drmas.org) is also not owned by dr.mas . www.drmas.com (http://www.drmas.com) is owned by MAS-dr your information is very poor.

You're busted. Take it like a man.

[LTC8K6]

Sheik, please explain why the 2 links do not go to pages related to drmas.

drmas.org:
This is the placeholder for domain drmas.org. If you see this page after uploading site content you probably have not replaced the index.html file.

This page has been automatically generated by Plesk.

drmas.com:

This page is parked free, courtesy of WildWestRegistry.com
Plus a bunch of generic links placed by wildwestregistry.

Neither page has anything to do with drmas as far as anyone can tell.

So, what is the point of listing them when you can't learn anything about homeopathy or about drmas at those links?

Let me guess...

The Grand Poo-Bah of the World Homeopathic Computer Club can't get his own sites to work?
He can't be short on shekels if he's giving away a million.....

[Mojo]

From Dr. A Sheikh's new signature:
Money is still pending for award.So you don't have the money.

[LTC8K6]

Sheikh, this is a link that works:

dr no mas (http://com1.runboard.com/b13thcentury)

See, it actually goes somewhere.

[Aepervius]

are you talking as JREF representative?

I think you are using some sort of homeopathic logic(*) here...
because time and time again we told you nobody is representative of Jref.

And please. Pretty Please. Tell me where the in your challenge application it is written that you have to represent JREF ? Or is this a new rule ? . Do I need to quote your OWN FIRST POST in this thread ?

(*) Homeopathetic logic : you start with a good solid logic, then you dilute it at 120X of nonsense. (Edit :spelling intentional)

[chance]

Dr. A Sheikh

chance>
What about my earlier proposal to show that you sell nothing other than water.

From the first page.

Would this be an acceptable test?

Method:

a.) Send me any 50 bottles of your homeopathic substance (all different), but all in identical containers.

b.) I will remove all labelling, and replace it with my own labelling.

c.) I will return the bottles to you

d.) The challenge is for you to tell me which one is which.

Percentage correct can be negotiated, as can a referee, but my bet is that you will not get better than a ‘statistical’ guess.


Dr. A Sheikh>

are you talking as JREF representative?


I am a private individual, I am not affiliated with the JREF (other than a participant with this forum). What has this got to do with my original question? I asked you if the test I proposed is acceptable to you, is it?

p.s. Do not answer a question with a question, else people will think you are afraid to answer.

[AnotherSillyAlias]

p.s. Do not answer a question with a question, else people will think you are afraid to answer.

I don't think he is afraid to answer, he simply does not have the wit to answer, or alternatively lacks sufficient integrity to give an answer.

[delphi_ote]

How do these guys walk around with their pants on fire all day?

[Donks]

How do these guys walk around with their pants on fire all day?
That's why they became homeopaths: they just pour water based remedies on themselves all day.

[Dan Beaird]

Hey Sheikh:

It seems we actually can win a million in Pakistan:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5627294,00.html

Isn't it sad that I put more trust in the fargin' terrorists to pay up than I do you and all your homeopathic brothers and sisters?

[delphi_ote]

That's why they became homeopaths: they just pour water based remedies on themselves all day.

This leads to an interesting quandry: which came first, the lies or the water?

[Zep]

They were invented by the same guy at the same time. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Hahnemann) Wasn't he a clever little clogs!

[delphi_ote]

They were invented by the same guy at the same time. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Hahnemann) Wasn't he a clever little clogs!

Hahnemann invented water?! You learn something new every day on this forum.

[AnotherSillyAlias]

Hahnemann invented water?! You learn something new every day on this forum.

No, I think he invented molecules.

[anor277]

Has Dr Sheikh yet named the currency of the hypothetical million dollars? I have no desire to scroll back through 10 pages or so.

[Zep]

We were just saying. The currency looks to be "water" or perhaps "molecules".

[Zep]

No, I think he invented molecules....of water. It's a unifying theory.

[The_Fire]

I wonder if we could get mythbusters interested in doing a test on this... Off cause water don't really blow up.....

[Non-Sense Homeopath]

I think, it is in dollar but I wish it should be in pound. after all there should be some difference in the offer. :D

[Non-Sense Homeopath]

Sheik, please explain why the 2 links do not go to pages related to drmas.

drmas.org:


drmas.com:


Plus a bunch of generic links placed by wildwestregistry.

Neither page has anything to do with drmas as far as anyone can tell.

So, what is the point of listing them when you can't learn anything about homeopathy or about drmas at those links?

Let me guess...

The Grand Poo-Bah of the World Homeopathic Computer Club can't get his own sites to work?
He can't be short on shekels if he's giving away a million.....

because both domains are paranormal in nature. :D

[Johnny Pixels]

because both domains are paranormal in nature. :D

Paralytic more like.

[delphi_ote]

Jesus Christ. Now nonsense is back? Are we traveling back in time?!

[Nucular]

Hurrah! Welcome back non-sense, we hardly missed ye.

[Hitch]

Sheik, please explain why the 2 links do not go to pages related to drmas.

drmas.org:


drmas.com:


Plus a bunch of generic links placed by wildwestregistry.

Neither page has anything to do with drmas as far as anyone can tell.

So, what is the point of listing them when you can't learn anything about homeopathy or about drmas at those links?

Let me guess...

The Grand Poo-Bah of the World Homeopathic Computer Club can't get his own sites to work?
He can't be short on shekels if he's giving away a million.....
Ah, wonders of homeopathic web design. Offer one million to anyone who prove content on homeopathic website.

[anor277]

I think, it is in dollar but I wish it should be in pound. after all there should be some difference in the offer. :D

@Non-sense, given your track record I do not expect too much honesty from you. We know that the prize is in dollars because Dr Sheikh said so; we would like to know what sort of dollars, U.S., Australian, New Zealand for instance, you tell us. Surely you must realise that evasion on this point undermines the credibility of the offer. At the moment there is no evidence of any million dollars.

[LTC8K6]

Non-Sheik-Mas, I am interested in how the prize changed from rupees to dollars.....

[delphi_ote]

*sigh* We all know the contest is for a gigajillion (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1380424#post1380424) rupees. Never trust a man who can't spell the name of his own currency.

[Aepervius]

Rupees is quite too high as a money. A million of it would still be lot of money (1 for 120 I think, so roughly 8000$). Now Zimbabwe Dollar has the advantange that it is roughly 85$ for 1000000 zimbabwe dollar... (1 USD for 125000 ZWD roughly). Now that is money ;). I remmember balthazar (Picsou?) being swimming in money and dreaming of it when I was waaaay young 25-30 years ago. Well now everybody can make this dream true too, provided he wants to buy a bunch a ZWD bills :). And it make sense that even Mr Sheik/MAS collective can have as much money as that.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Current exchange rates show one million rupees ~= US$9777

[Aepervius]

I was too lame/lazy to check the current rate. Still a lot of money : 10K $.

[delphi_ote]

I was too lame/lazy to check the current rate. Still a lot of money : 10K $.

It doesn't really matter how much it's worth. It doesn't exist. They've also said 10 million, 1 million dollars, and various amounts of rupees. They've asked us to send e-mails to three or four different addresses, asked for personal information, and sent us to nonexistent websites. It's been called a challenge, a contest, a prize, and "hundred of prizes."

This is just another in a litany of lies by the Mas collective.

[Rolfe]

Aren't Pakistani rupees worth less than Indian rupees? I'm also too lazy to check, but I'd assume Pakistani rupees.

Rolfe.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Aren't Pakistani rupees worth less than Indian rupees? I'm also too lazy to check, but I'd assume Pakistani rupees.

Rolfe.

All I could find with a cursory search was the Sri Lanka Rupee. I too, am lazy. Thus that's what I used.:(

[Dr. A Sheikh]

I think, it is in dollar but I wish it should be in pound. after all there should be some difference in the offer. :D

yesterday, I visited million dollar web site. Quite informative. All the questions are answered there.

[Mojo]

yesterday, I visited million dollar web site. Quite informative. All the questions are answered there.Please provide a link to this "million dollar web site".

[Dr. A Sheikh]

If you find it. It will be yours. ;)

[alfaniner]

What is "one million dollar"? The plural of dollar is dollars.

[Nucular]

I found it. It's mine.

http://prosites-lottofun9.homestead.com/files/Traditional-Million.jpg

[Mojo]

If you find it. It will be yours. ;)It doesn't exist, does it? If it did, you'd be able to provide the link.