Is there anyone who is interested in One Million Dollar Prize Money?

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Dr. MAS organization has offered One Million Dollar prize money.

Number No. 1: I have no objection on JREF prize. But we are now in a position to award you prizes rather to take prizes. If you are interested to win the pirze then we also offer you the same amount.

Number No. 2: You also have chance to prove homeopaths wrong on the same terms and conditions. You can also get rich.

Number No. 3: We don't need your assistance in filing an application but we offer you if you want our assistance we are ready to assist you so that you can directly apply to WHCC.

Number No. 4: We have removed all the hurdles of the provers / challengers. The process is very simple:

a. First write down the claim which you want to prove? To make an easy task and accessible for everyone, we are not offering anything to prove. Just tell us what you want to prove and submit. WHCC prize for One Million "Dollar" (Amount Increased) is applicable for everything which you want to prove.

b. Submit your claim and proving along with your complete CV in written at our office located at Kharian Pakistan.

Number No. 5: We have settled the problem of homeopathy for ever.

There is no issue.

a. Homeopathic potencies and medicines have material.


b. The physiological action of the homeopathic medicines are same as it is admissible in allopathy.

The problem is solved. No issue left.

http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=584


If any body wants my assistance I am here to provide you help.

[Admiral]

The rules seem somewhat unclear, but it looks like the organization is offering 1 million dollars to anyone who can prove homeopathy wrong. (Correct me if I misunderstood.)

[drkitten]

Dr. MAS organization has offered One Million Dollar prize money.


What organization is this? Where is it located? Is there any evidence available that the organization actually has the money available to be paid? Who is the person responsible for receiving correspondence regarding this prize?

If genuine, this looks like a very worthwhile offer -- and I assure you I will be able to make (and defend) an appropriate claim.

[anor277]

Just to avail myself of Dr Sheikh's generous offer of assistance, I have two questions.

(i) In what currency is the prize awarded? Euros, US dollars, Australian dollars, or some unspecified currency of little actual value?

(ii) How do we know that the million dollars actually exists? Will you provide details of the account so that we know the money is actually there? I am unwilling to rely on Dr Mas' good faith in this respect, and nor should anyone else give Dr Mas' record of evasion and misrepresentation.

[Hawk one]

b. The physiological action of the homeopathic medicines are same as it is admissible in allopathy.

This is even sort of true. An allopathic remedy that's been dilluted as much as your typical homeopathic remedy will have the same physiological actions: None.

Also, allopathy was abandonded 200 years ago. What makes you think that comparing homeopathy to another principle that's been shown to be wrong will make homeopathy more legitimate?

Finally, let me repeat that homeopathy is still eligible for the JREF prize. Stop lying, stop evading the subject, and stop delaying. Apply for the prize, and show us that homeopathy actually works.

[drkitten]

(ii) How do we know that the million dollars actually exists? Will you provide details of the account so that we know the money is actually there?

I should note in passing that this isn't an unreasonable request; the JREF, for example, is perfectly willing to provide such details through Goldman-Sachs (as well as the formal details of the organization of the JREF itself, such as its directors, location of incorporation, and so forth.)

Can we expect "Dr MAS" to be equally forthcoming and open?

[El Greco]

I would like to apply and my claim which I intend to prove is that you don't have the money.

[MWare]

Dr. Sheikh, I understand that English is not your first language, but it is very difficult for me to understand what exactly you are saying in many of your e-mails. Since recently you've taken to offering $1M for something, I'd really like to understand what the rules are. Thus I have attempted to translate your "rules". I am simply trying to understand you from a purely grammatical standpoint and I am not advocating or challenging anything you are saying. English is not an easy language - especially when it is not your native language so please don't misunderstand my intentions here.

Number No. 1: I have no objection on JREF prize. But we are now in a position to award you prizes rather to take prizes. If you are interested to win the pirze then we also offer you the same amount.
Translation: 1) I have no objection to JREF's Million Dollar Challenge. We are now in a position to offer a prize of our own. We will also award $1M dollars to the winner of our challenge.
Number No. 2: You also have chance to prove homeopaths wrong on the same terms and conditions. You can also get rich.
Translation: 2) This is an opportunity to prove homeopaths wrong using the same terms and conditions of the JREF challenge. You can get rich.
We don't need your assistance in filing an application but we offer you if you want our assistance we are ready to assist you so that you can directly apply to WHCC.
Translation: 3) We do not want help in filling out a JREF challenge application. We will assist you in applying for our challenge directly with WHCC.
Number No. 4: We have removed all the hurdles of the provers / challengers. The process is very simple:
Translation: 4) We have removed the hurdles involved in all parties participating in the challenge and the process is simple:
First write down the claim which you want to prove? To make an easy task and accessible for everyone, we are not offering anything to prove. Just tell us what you want to prove and submit. WHCC prize for One Million "Dollar" (Amount Increased) is applicable for everything which you want to prove.
Translation: 4a) Write down the claim which you will prove. To make it simple we are not stating what you will prove, you can prove anything you wish. The WHCC will be awarded for proving anything you wish to prove.
b. Submit your claim and proving along with your complete CV in written at our office located at Kharian Pakistan.
Translation: 4b) Submit your claim and how you will prove it as well as a complete CV to our office in Kharian Pakistan.
Number No. 5: We have settled the problem of homeopathy for ever.
Translation: 5) We have already ended any dispute over the effectiveness of homeopathy. There is nothing more to dispute.
a. Homeopathic potencies and medicines have material.
Translation: 5a) Homeopathic dosages and homeopathic medicine is effective.
b. The physiological action of the homeopathic medicines are same as it is admissible in allopathy.
Translation: 6b) Homeopathic dosages and medicines work in the same manner as allopathic dosages and medicines.



Ok. Now is this what you are trying to say or have I misunderstood.

[Garrette]

The following is written with the full expectation that this is not a legitimate challenge at all but with that expectation momentarily laid aside

Given that a requirement is the submission of a CV it appears obvious that judging will not be solely on the merits of the proof. A very poor start.

Given that no address for the organization is supplied (just a town or province) it appears likely that no organization with this money actually exists.

Given that the application must be submitted "in written at our office" it appears that they are using their geographic location as an obstacle by precluding mailing.

Dr. Mas and the collective remain liars, quacks, frauds, deceivers, charlatans, thieves, conmen, abusers-of-the-ill-and-gullible, and all around bad eggs.

I could be wrong, though.

[Tricky]

I have a question Dr. Sheikh. Do I only have to prove it wrong once, or do I have to prove that homeopathy is wrong every single time. I will happily prove it wrong once by drinking homeopathic poison.

However if you tell me that doesn't count, I'll prove it wrong by twice washing my hair with homeopathic shampoo.

If you tell me that won't count, I'll prove it doesn't work three times by showing you can't unclog noses using homeopathic Vicks.

I'm betting there are an unending number of cases you won't accept as proving homeopathy doesn't work, because I'll bet you're asking someone to prove it wrong every time.

However, you could prove me wrong by saying that you will accept any of these three challenges. And, of course, by proving you have the money.

[JamesM]

What's the betting that this is another devilishly clever ruse from Dr MAS (the M stands for Moriarity, I expect)? I predict some sort of seemingly innocuous statement from a skeptic, like "homeopathic remedies contain molecules", will lead inscrutably a multi-coloured 'victory' post.

[ChristineR]

My guess is that he's somehow going to turn this into a JREF challenge. He wants someone to say that his version of homeopathy (with non-homepathic dilutions) is paranormal. Or something. Anyhow, he's going to come back and say "And you should apply to Mr. Randi with your claim that homeopathic poisons are harmless, because I know better!"

[Psiload]

Dr. MAS organization has offered One Million Dollar prize money.



If any body wants my assistance I am here to provide you help.

I have one simple request...

Please describe one theoretical situation that would result in your prize being successfully awarded.

Just one. One simple example of how one would go about claiming your prize.

If you can't give an example, then ask yourself how anyone would go about accomplishing a task that you can't even describe.

[Hitch]

I just wonder if this is a homeopathic million dollars. One dollar diluted one million times.

[Kochanski]

I just wonder if this is a homeopathic million dollars. One dollar diluted one million times.

Hhhhmm, then by Dr. A Sheikh's rules it would be just as effective to use to pay bills as any other million dollars, I like that thought, hey, then we can all say we are millionaires :D

[Complexity]

Nope.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

MWare, the post was taken from www.nch.ipbfree.com (http://www.nch.ipbfree.com) forum . Actually that mail was posted on LLH thread. Read that mail first to clear the situation.

Procedure for filing application:
-----------------------------

1. write down the complete "object" of your claim which you want to prove with reference to homeopathy in pricise form / short simple words.

2. write the complete procedure how will you prove your claim. Give detail

3. write experimental observations

4. Write result (what is proved)

5. send your documentary prove with your complete CV at the following address:

Dr. MAS
Iqbal Poly Homeopathic clinic
Attached with Main Police Station
Kharian, Pakistan
www.drmas.org (http://www.drmas.org)
email: drmasvoice@hotmail.com
24 hours hot line: 0092-300-6263403

5. You can send your intimation or queries via Free sms through web server http://www.smspk.com/sms/index.html

a. Write your real name and press Log in
b. Just write 6263403 in mobile column
c. Write your message at "enter message here.... "
d. Press Send button

Note: WHCC will provide guranttee money also on court stamp papers. Only written application at WHCC office is acceptable. no application will be received through email.

For your information, the prize exists and it will be also be paid to winner.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

The last date to receive applications is 7th march 2006

[eri]

So you'll just assume that we did what we claimed to do? So if, say, I claimed to drink a gallon of homeopathic sleep aid and then pull an all-nighter, and I claim I did, do I win? Just like that?

Also, why do you need my full CV? Isn't my name enough? Or are you planning to get the million dollars for the prize money by selling names and addresses to advertising companies?

[Flange Desire]

Re OP: No.

[gtc]

So you'll just assume that we did what we claimed to do? So if, say, I claimed to drink a gallon of homeopathic sleep aid and then pull an all-nighter, and I claim I did, do I win? Just like that?

Also, why do you need my full CV? Isn't my name enough? Or are you planning to get the million dollars for the prize money by selling names and addresses to advertising companies?

I do wonder whether this is all an elaborate Identity theft scam.

Also I do wonder whether Dr Mas etal could better serve Pakistan by volunteering to help feed and clothe the victims of the Earthquake or fighting to end corruption and religous intolerace, restore democracy and get jobs and education for the underclass. I guess trolling the internet is a much more noble cause.

[Jeff Corey]

...address:Dr. MAS
Iqbal Poly Homeopathic clinic
Attached with Main Police Station
....
Oh, I am so glad the police finally arrested this criminal person. I dearly hope he shall be attached in the Main Police Station for many, many years.
Such good news that no more gullible people will die from his worthless preparations.
O, frabjous day, calooh, callay.

[Nucular]

For your information, the prize exists and it will be also be paid to winner.
You were asked for evidence; all you did was restate it.

Also, you were asked for a hypothetical scenario which would result in the prize being awarded. You ignored this.

Sheikh, please:

1. Demonstrate somehow that the money exists

2. Describe an example of a successful claim.

You said you were here to help us in our application; please assist by providing answers to these questions. Thanks.

[chance]

Dr. MAS organization has offered One Million Dollar prize money.



If any body wants my assistance I am here to provide you help.

Would this be an acceptable test?

Method:

a.) Send me any 50 bottles of your homeopathic substance (all different), but all in identical containers.

b.) I will remove all labelling, and replace it with my own labelling.

c.) I will return the bottles to you

d.) The challenge is for you to tell me which one is which.

Percentage correct can be negotiated, as can a referee, but my bet is that you will not get better than a ‘statistical’ guess.

[Admiral]

You have never explained what someone must do to win the prize. Sending in any claim, any claim at all, will win it? This hardly seems like a fair deal.

There is still no evidence the money exists. NONE, except your word. The JREF provides (as it is legally required to as a tax-exempt organization) a complete disclosure as to where the money is located- in a Goldman-Sachs bank. You're expecting people to pay to send an envelope to Pakistan including all their personal information because someone posts on a message board that they'll give a million dollars away?

This appears to be a very poorly thought out scam.

Please provide evidence the money is there and an example of something that could win the money. The JREF does this- they have a lengthy FAQ.

[Zep]

Please remember, folks, that "Dr. MAS" is probably not one person but many people sharing one account. We discovered this in the past, which is why they are called "The MAS Collective".

Sheikh is just another one of these MAS identities.

[brettDbass]

I do wonder whether this is all an elaborate Identity theft scam.
I've been having the same thought for a while.

I think the most "innocent" purpose behind this is for these people to obtain validated email addresses to sell on to spammers.
I think the most malevolent purpose behind it is identity theft, as gtc suggests.

Until there is a reply to the requests of evidence by all (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1442149&postcount=3) these (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1442176&postcount=4) other (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1442391&postcount=10) board (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1442476&postcount=13) users (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1443301&postcount=24) I will publicly stand by this statement of my belief.

[Mojo]

Hello again, Sheikh. Have you made any progress towards demonstrating that homoeopathy works in a double blinded trial? Remember that you have promised to quit homoeopathic practice forever if you cannot accomplish this.

There's a thread specially created for you to post your protocol and report your progress here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=50535).

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Please remember, folks, that "Dr. MAS" is probably not one person but many people sharing one account. We discovered this in the past, which is why they are called "The MAS Collective".

Sheikh is just another one of these MAS identities.

Nope.

It means you have no query over the prize money. One day has gone. No application received.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

1. Demonstrate somehow that the money exists

2. Describe an example of a successful claim.



Questions not followed.

[Hawk one]

It means you have no query over the prize money.

Are you blind?

We still have one main query about the prize money, which has been repeated over and over in this thread: Do they in fact exist? Can you show us real evidence that you have one million dollars available?

[Donks]

Questions not followed.
1) Is there a way we could confirm the money exists, through an impartial partner? Say, by asking a bank or financial institution?

2) Could you name one way the prize could be won?
For instance, to win the JREF Million Dollar challenge you would have to demonstrate that you are able to distinguish between a 30C homeopathic remedy and the solvent alone.

[LTC8K6]

1. Document that the prize money exists. Prove that you actually have the money and that it can be awarded to a successful applicant.

2. Give us an example of how the prize might be won. Write up a hypothetical claim that would win the prize. Give us a theoretical winning entry so that we have an idea of how your contest will work.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Hello again, Sheikh. Have you made any progress towards demonstrating that homoeopathy works in a double blinded trial? Remember that you have promised to quit homoeopathic practice forever if you cannot accomplish this.

There's a thread specially created for you to post your protocol and report your progress here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=50535).

Administrator of this forum put a wrong blame over me of doing spam and suspended my account. The above post has nothing to do with the topic running. I don't know why he cannot see what Mojo is doing in all threads. He has sent this post 37 times in nine threads.

Under the instruction by mas.org , we have slightly changed our policy.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

[quote=Hawk one;1444877]Are you blind?

We still have one main query about the prize money, which has been repeated over and over in this thread: Do they in fact exist?

YES

Can you show us real evidence that you have one million dollars available?

How?

[Donks]

Administrator of this forum put a wrong blame over me of doing spam and suspended my account. The above post has nothing to do with the topic running. I don't know why he cannot see what Mojo is doing in all threads. He has sent this post 37 times in nine threads.

Under the instruction by mas.org , we have slightly changed our policy.
You were suspended for spamming, because after MAS got suspended by bumping almost every homeopathy related thread in this forum, you decided to do the same. One would have to be quite stupid to not see what that would lead to, so don't whine about it now.

[Hawk one]

How?

Do it like the JREF does: Make a special account with a bank and give us the name of the bank so we can contact them and let them confirm that the money exists. It's that simple.

[LTC8K6]

I know, he is going to award the JREF million that he already won......

[MWare]

Also I do wonder whether Dr Mas etal could better serve Pakistan by volunteering to help feed and clothe the victims of the Earthquake

Oh but he did: http://www.otherhealth.com/printthread.php?t=6063

Just last year he was able to raise a whopping 78,000 rupees by between October 16th and November 8th 2005 to create a free homeopathic mobile van for earthquake victims (because many studies have shown how homeopathy can fix broken bones and shelter the homeless). That's $1,305 USD folks. Here we are only 3 months later and he's got $1 Million (USD?) that he's willing to give someone who apparently sends their resume and a letter which convinces him that everything he's ever written on a multitude of web forums is bunk. While MAS' web design is awful and medical beliefs are medieval, I believe he certainly has a promising career in fundraising.

So he had to beg the int'l community for a few thousand to aid earthquake victims, but somehow has a million on hand to reward at the drop of a hat. But then the question was posed, does this money exist? Well the same link above will give you all of the information about Mr. Saleem's bank or paypal accounts, although the paypal account seems to be listed as Al Omran Manual Carpentry. Probably just another MAS family business.

I can't go so far as to say that the whole lot of you Pakistani homeopaths who post on here and claim not to know one another are really just running some kind of confidence scam. But Dr. Sheikh (I use the honorific because it is your screenname, not out of any respect of your alleged credentials) you somehow manage to be both highly frustrating and oddly entertaining. You and MAS (which as far as I can tell is some kind of mystery of the trinity involving a multitude of relations of varying ages and disciplines) and the rest of the cult that makes up the WHCC clique really have no value on these forums.

I have had my opinion on a variety of subjects altered by posting and reading the threads on this forum, but none of you have even considered a change of heart on any issue. In addition, the entire lot of you post and repost the same rhetoric month in and month out ad nauseum with the repetitive monotony of a insurance seminar (with the difference being insurance seminars often provide useful information).

Thus you bring nothing to the community here. And even if you developed any reasonable arguments for your positions, you all have so squandered any benefit of the doubt that you may have been given that nobody even considers your posts to be any more than the mildly entertaining rants of madmen or frauds. It is a violation of forum rules to attack the person instead of their ideas but you have so failed to present any rational thought that anyone attempting to reason with you is simply fighting windmills. If this post is blocked or even if I am eternally banned from JREF for my comments here, I still feel really good finally getting some of this frustration out in the open.

As we all have guessed (probably when we first saw the thread name and the initial poster) there is no monetary reward here - only the bottomless rabbit hole of the deluded or fraudulent ideas of you and your comrades. I personally feel sorry for anyone in Pakistan who turns to any of you for medical advice or assistance. With each post you add to the embarrasment you're not even sensible enough to recognize. Your ideas are a sad testament to your country and your culture.

[Psiload]

Questions not followed. It's very simple. Please describe a hypothetical situation that would result in your prize being awarded.

I can easily do this for the JREF prize...

-A claimant provides 100 identical bottles. 50 of the bottles contain a 30C homeopathic preparation of the claimant's choosing, and the other 50 bottles contain stock solvent.

-The bottles are labeled, and placed in random order.

-The claimant identifies which bottles contain homeopathic preparations, and which contain stock solvent to 90% accuracy, or better, using any non-cheating method he/she sees fit to use.

-The prize is awarded.

There... see how easy that was? Now it's your turn.

Give us a simple outline of what steps could, theoretically, be taken to claim your prize.

You, of course, will not. Your challenge is a farce and you, good sir, are a clown.

[drkitten]

It means you have no query over the prize money. One day has gone. No application received.

Where is the "help" you promised? I asked a set of questions, and have not yet received any answers:


What organization is this? Where is it located? Is there any evidence available that the organization actually has the money available to be paid? Who is the person responsible for receiving correspondence regarding this prize?

[Mojo]

I don't know why he cannot see what Mojo is doing in all threads. He has sent this post 37 times in nine threads. I am simply requesting that you keep your promise, and either prove that homoeopathy works in a double blinded test or quit homoeopathy. If I have done this repeatedly, it is because I have seen nothing from you that indicates that you intend to keep your promise.

If you want me to stop asking you to keep your promise, show some evidence that you are trying to keep it. Posting some possible protocols would be a start.

[Rolfe]

I have, like, no idea whatsoever what one has to do to claim this wholly hypothetical million bucks (I don't know why they don't make it ten million while they're at it, it's monopoly money anyway). Does the "claim" even have to have anything to do with homoeopathy? Suppose I claimed I can wiggle my ears, would that do it?

Unless Sheikh can give us some hypothetical examples of winning claims, I call troll.

Rolfe.

[StoatBringer]

Why should anybody need to disprove homeopathy? The burden of proof is on the homeopaths, and so far they have failed utterly to demonstrate that homeopathy is anything more than a method of separating people from their money.

Would you also offer a million to anyone who can disprove the existence of leprechauns?

[Donks]

I have, like, no idea whatsoever what one has to do to claim this wholly hypothetical million bucks (I don't know why they don't make it ten million while they're at it, it's monopoly money anyway). Does the "claim" even have to have anything to do with homoeopathy? Suppose I claimed I can wiggle my ears, would that do it?

Unless Sheikh can give us some hypothetical examples of winning claims, I call troll.

Rolfe.
You can wiggle your ears?

[Jeff Corey]

No hands!
(Old joke about p*ssing up a wall...)

[Aussie Thinker]

Seriously guys.. why do you pander to this idiot ?

[Rolfe]

You can wiggle your ears?Er, yes, actually.

Rolfe.

[CFLarsen]

The money is homeopathic, too.

[brettDbass]

Er, yes, actually.

Rolfe.
Evidence?

:duck:

[Rolfe]

What form of evidence would be acceptable to you? :D

Rolfe.

[Ladewig]

Seriously guys.. why do you pander to this idiot ?

I suspect that if we all just ignored the posts, then the MAS collective would claim in their advertising that "skeptics have no argument against homeopathy - we've posted our evidence on skeptic boards and they were dumbfounded."

Also, I imagine that there are enough on-the-fence lurkers on the JREF boards that providing counter-arguments against the MAS helps people learn why homeopaths are either fooling themselves or are perpetrating criminal fraud.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Can you show us real evidence that you have one million dollars available?

How?

That one word speaks volumes. A person who has so little understanding of evidence that he cannot understand how to provide evidence that he is in possession of one million dollars is not going to understand how to provide (or even how to evaluate) evidence related to a scientific experiment.

[Aepervius]

What form of evidence would be acceptable to you? :D

Rolfe.


How about some avi taken from a web cam and a A4 paper with written in black sharpy "I am rolfe", that you hold in your hand ;).

[LTC8K6]

I could easily win your challenge MASSheik, but the money interferes with my abilities. The presence of believers also gives off vibrations which interferes with my talents.

My talents only work if no money is involved, and no believers are present.

[Aussie Thinker]

Ladewig,

I suspect that if we all just ignored the posts, then the MAS collective would claim in their advertising that "skeptics have no argument against homeopathy - we've posted our evidence on skeptic boards and they were dumbfounded."

I am with you Ladewig… it just frustrates me to see intelligent likeable people waste their time on these morons.

[asmodean]

The rules seem somewhat unclear, but it looks like the organization is offering 1 million dollars to anyone who can prove homeopathy wrong. (Correct me if I misunderstood.)

Not one millionm dollar. One million "dollar", read the OP. Could be anything. :P

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Grapes or sour, you are presenting un-wanted and mere comments to escape to get million dollar prize. it looks to me that you people cannot win this easy prize. ;)

No application is received. (*update from WHCC office - received today)

[Mojo]

Grapes or sour, you are presenting un-wanted and mere comments to escape to get million dollar prize. it looks to me that you people cannot win this easy prize. ;)

No application is received. (*update from WHCC office - received today)Sheikh, your "prize" is an obvious attempt to distract people from your complete inability to demonstrate that homoeopathy works. Your inability to post an example of what would constitute a successful application is a pretty good indication that the "prize" is not offered sincerely.

Now, if you are interested in a million dollar prize, there is a genuine one in which it has been specifically stated that it can be won by anyone who can tell a high potency homoeopathic preparation from a placebo by any means. This would include demonstrating in a double blinded test that it works better than placebo. And also, remember that you have promised to do this or quit homoeopathy.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Give us a simple outline of what steps could, theoretically, be taken to claim your prize.

This has been explained in first post.

[Psiload]

This has been explained in first post. This is a lie.

[StoatBringer]

Sheikh, provide details of how the existence of your million dollars may be confirmed.

[MRC_Hans]

Grapes or sour, you are presenting un-wanted and mere comments to escape to get million dollar prize. it looks to me that you people cannot win this easy prize. ;)

No application is received. (*update from WHCC office - received today)You can all see where this is going, right?

Unintelligible rules, no documentation of existence of prize money. Should somebody actually bother to pay for the stamps to send some kind of application, it can easily be dismissed.

So after the time runs out, these bozos will declare all over the internet: "We have offered skeptics win 1 million dollars to prove us wrong. None of them dared to try. This prove all skeptics frauds."

Hans :nope:

[LTC8K6]

This has been explained in first post.

We want an example of a successful claim.

Give us a theoretical successful claim. A demonstration of how your $1M can be won.

We are not asking for you to re-state the rules, but to give us an example.

Pretend you are going to try to win your own $1M. Tell us how you would apply, and what you would do to win the $1M.

First though, you have to show us that you have $1M, or there is no point in applying.

Why should we even start, if you are lying about the $1M?

[brettDbass]

You can all see where this is going, right?

Unintelligible rules, no documentation of existence of prize money. Should somebody actually bother to pay for the stamps to send some kind of application, it can easily be dismissed.

So after the time runs out, these bozos will declare all over the internet: "We have offered skeptics win 1 million dollars to prove us wrong. None of them dared to try. This prove all skeptics frauds."

Hans :nope:
And yet many forum members have offered to drink various homeopathic remedies, posions and all sorts, and so proving they have no effect. Conveniently, these offers have been flat-out ignored.

If they do as you predict Hans, they will expose themselves as liars, cheats and fraudsters yet again, not that this seems to have bothered them so far :rolleyes:

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Do it like the JREF does: Make a special account with a bank and give us the name of the bank so we can contact them and let them confirm that the money exists. It's that simple.

So you believe a bank can only provide you the real evidence?

You can contact this bank, it has been burnt today. It was located infront of Dr. MAS new residence (that residence which is in city)

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6733/bank12by.gif

[LTC8K6]

If you don't have the $1M, why should we apply?

[Mojo]

So you believe a bank can only provide you the real evidence?

You can contact this bank, it has been burnt today. It was located infront of Dr. MAS new residence (that residence which is in city) Do you have any contact details (e.g. address, phone number, email) for this incendiary bank?

I think I see where this is going. Was your million, perhaps, inside the bank when it was torched?

[Nucular]

Dr. MAS organization has offered One Million Dollar prize money.



If any body wants my assistance I am here to provide you help.
On the NCH thread (http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=584) you linked to, LLH has clearly requested help for his application several times, but no-one has offered any. Will you help him as you said you would, or will you remain obstructive until your arbitrary cut-off date has passed?



Sheikh, it is a very important part of this process that you demonstrate that the million dollars exist. If they do not, then there is no point in us applying for the prize; and furthermore, it would indicate a level of dishonesty that would certainly render it pretty dumb of us to send you our personal details.

What form is the money in at the moment? Where is it kept? If you could put it in a bank account (where you'll be earning hefty interest whilst it's there), and let us know which one, we'll telephone the bank to confirm it.



I would also like to see an example of a claim which would be successful, and for you to help LLH in his application as you said you would.

[Nucular]

Ah, I see there've been a lot of posts since I typed that one!

Was the money in that burning bank, Sheikh? If not, why did you mention it? If so, is your challenge now null & void?

[alfaniner]

...
You can contact this bank, it has been burnt today...

This is so ridiculous I won't even comment on it.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

The detail of the bank

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/6416/fire29pn.gif

[Garrette]

If the bank statement doesn't confirm to lurkers that the Mas collective is a group of liars, fools and conmen, nothing will.

I'll say it plainly, Dr. A Sheikh: You, Dr Mas, and all those who have posted in this vein are liars, fools and conmen.

But keep posting, please. It's good to see you repeatedly demonstrating it.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

http://www.gujratlink.com

http://www.gujratlink.com/pix.htm

This is not radiculous. This is true but who will believe on it.

[Psiload]

http://www.gujratlink.com

http://www.gujratlink.com/pix.htm

This is not radiculous. This is true but who will believe on it. Now that your dog has eaten your homework, I take it that your challenge has been withdrawn.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

This is a lie.

a. First write down the claim which you want to prove? To make an easy task and accessible for everyone, we are not offering anything to prove. Just tell us what you want to prove and submit. WHCC prize for One Million "Dollar" (Amount Increased) is applicable for everything which you want to prove.

What is lie in this statement.

[Nucular]

http://www.gujratlink.com

http://www.gujratlink.com/pix.htm

This is not radiculous. This is true but who will believe on it.
Wait, you are claiming the million dollars was in that bank aren't you!

I don't have the words. My sarcasm chip has overloaded.

Sheikh. Are you saying your million dollars were in that burning bank?

[Orb]

I'm sorry to hear your money was destroyed in the fire. Now would be a great time to apply for the JREF challenge to replace it, right?

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Now that your dog has eaten your homework, I take it that your challenge has been withdrawn.

I disqualified your claim that a bank statement can be the real evidence. or money in the bank could be a good evidence. I am not sure Dr. MAS had any account in that bank but if any body had money in that account. It has been lost.

[Psiload]

a. First write down the claim which you want to prove? To make an easy task and accessible for everyone, we are not offering anything to prove. Just tell us what you want to prove and submit. WHCC prize for One Million "Dollar" (Amount Increased) is applicable for everything which you want to prove.

What is lie in this statement. Because you have not given a hypothetical example of what steps could be taken to claim your prize. If your challenge were legitimate, you could easily do so. I've already given you a simple, unambiguous outline of how the JREF challenge, a legitimate offer, could be won. You have NOT done the same for your own challenge. You lied when you said you had.

I think it's time to set yourself on fire.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

I'm sorry to hear your money was destroyed in the fire. Now would be a great time to apply for the JREF challenge to replace it, right?

The prize still exist till the termination of expiry date.

[Mojo]

I am not sure Dr. MAS had any account in that bank but if any body had money in that account. It has been lost.If you're not sure whether or not MAS (or somebody associated with the prize and nominated to hold the prize money) had an account with the bank, why do you think any information the bank could supply would be relevant to whether or not you have the money to back up your prize?

[Psiload]

The prize still exist till the termination of expiry date. If the money no longer exists, then how is it that the prize still exists?

There are no words to describe how foolish you're making yourself look right now.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Wait,

Sheikh. Are you saying your million dollars were in that burning bank?

I was saying, a bank cannot provide you evidence. If the money was in that bank then it is lost now.

Let me check from mas where the money was?

[Ladewig]

If the bank statement doesn't confirm to lurkers that the Mas collective is a group of liars, fools and conmen, nothing will.

I'll say it plainly, Dr. A Sheikh: You, Dr Mas, and all those who have posted in this vein are liars, fools and conmen.

But keep posting, please. It's good to see you repeatedly demonstrating it.

Up until this point, I couldn't understand why these criminal conmen would take time out of their day to post on the JREF board. Now I see them for the trolls that they are. We've finally found something lower than trolls, conmen who troll.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

If the bank statement doesn't confirm to lurkers that the Mas collective is a group of liars, fools and conmen, nothing will.

I'll say it plainly, Dr. A Sheikh: You, Dr Mas, and all those who have posted in this vein are liars, fools and conmen.

But keep posting, please. It's good to see you repeatedly demonstrating it.

We are not bothered about these remarks. So don't waste your time in passing such remarks.

Come to serious discussion.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

[quote=Nucular;1449349
Sheikh, it is a very important part of this process that you demonstrate that the million dollars exist. .[/quote]

How can we prove that we ar ready to prove it.

[Nucular]

Come to serious discussion.
Where? Do you know of one?

[ChristineR]

Don't be silly. No bank keeps $1,000,000 in bills in a paper box. Do you think that if you have $27.50 in your checking account that the bank keeps a little envelope in the back with your money in it? Deposits exist in cyberspace, not in the bank.

At the very worst, if you truly have a stack of bills, they would be in a fireproof safety deposit box vault. And even in the most unlikely case of a total loss, everything would be properly insured, so that the box owner would be compensated.

There is obviously no prize. My guess is the same as before: he's hoping to get something he can recast as a JREF claim, like "I can drink homeopathic poison and not die" and then he'll come up with some "1x homeopathic poison" and tell the applicant to apply to the JREF.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

You can all see where this is going, right?

Unintelligible rules, no documentation of existence of prize money. Should somebody actually bother to pay for the stamps to send some kind of application, it can easily be dismissed.

So after the time runs out, these bozos will declare all over the internet: "We have offered skeptics win 1 million dollars to prove us wrong. None of them dared to try. This prove all skeptics frauds."

Hans :nope:

WHCC put a very very simple claim. Just prove yourself whatever you want to prove and support your claim with evidence and send it at whcc address and win prize.

does jref also offer such a simple rule.

[Nucular]

How can we prove that we ar ready to prove it.
I'm not asking you to prove that you're ready to prove it, I'm asking you to, ahem, "show me the money".

Where is it held? Can we contact the institution to confirm that they hold the money and that it is indeed yours?

Do you see why we would be loathe to go any further without confirming the existence of the money?

[3point14]

Come to serious discussion.

I hate to sink to your level, but you first.

Oh, and I find it telling that you still haven't defined what would be considered a successful application - can you please state if you intend to?

[Donks]

Give us a simple outline of what steps could, theoretically, be taken to claim your prize.
This has been explained in first post.
This is a lie.
a. First write down the claim which you want to prove? To make an easy task and accessible for everyone, we are not offering anything to prove. Just tell us what you want to prove and submit. WHCC prize for One Million "Dollar" (Amount Increased) is applicable for everything which you want to prove.
What is lie in this statement.
1) "This is a lie" obviously did not apply to the a. part of the challenge you quoted. It applied to "This has been explained in the first post." Why is that a lie? Because, as you so conviniently proved in the part you quoted, you did not provide what Psiload asked for, what everyone else in this thread has been asking for.
2) Give us some evidence that the money exists. Unless MAS has it hidden under his mattress (and with intellects of this caliber, I wouldn't put it past him), he can provide evidence from an impartial party such as the financial institution where the money is. Just like the JREF challenge directs such inquires to Goldman Sachs, you should be able to do the same. Failure to do so just exemplifies how you are a liar and a scam artist.
3) Give us a detailed example of how your prize can be won. What claim would be acceptable, how should it be supported? If you can't do this, it means your "prize" is a sham, it can't be won by any means, regardless of what claims we make or how much evidence we provide.
4) Provide evidence that homeopathy works or quit it, as you promised.

[aggle-rithm]

If the bank statement doesn't confirm to lurkers that the Mas collective is a group of liars, fools and conmen, nothing will.

I'll say it plainly, Dr. A Sheikh: You, Dr Mas, and all those who have posted in this vein are liars, fools and conmen.



And arsonists. Don't forget arsonists!

You see what lengths they will go to, to avoid the subject at hand?

(Disclaimer: the preceding was strictly a fanciful jest. I'm not actually accusing the Mas collective of arson. I'm not sure they would know how. Do not attempt this at home.)

[Nucular]

WHCC put a very very simple claim. Just prove yourself whatever you want to prove and support your claim with evidence and send it at whcc address and win prize.

does jref also offer such a simple rule.
Your "rule" isn't "simple", it's as vague and vacuous as it's possible to be.

The JREF rules are clear and explicit; there are examples of claims that do and do not come under its remit; and we can confirm the existence of the money any time we want.

I'm not even sure what you want to give "your" million away for - what are we supposed to do?

I ask again - please give an example of a claim which would be successful, and demonstrate the existence of your money. Without you doing these two things, I don't see how any of this can go any further.

[Donks]

WHCC put a very very simple claim. Just prove yourself whatever you want to prove and support your claim with evidence and send it at whcc address and win prize.

does jref also offer such a simple rule.
The JREF offers clear and simple rules. You offer obfuscation. What simple claim is valid? The claim that Rolfe can wiggle her ears? Is that valid?

[3point14]

So, the important thing, I think, is that this imaginary test with it's imaginary prize not be used as ammunition by these (imaginary?) people when the imaginary deadline passes.

The question is, how?

[MRC_Hans]

WHCC put a very very simple claim. Just prove yourself whatever you want to prove and support your claim with evidence and send it at whcc address and win prize.

Fine. I will want to prove that I own a blue car. My proof is by scanning the registration papers and mailing them to you. If you doubt the veracity of the paper, you can verifiy it by contacting the Danish authorities. I will open a special bank account you can transfer the money to (no sorry, I won't be giving you my normal account info ;) ).

My registration papers and my CV. Please state if there are any other requirements I have to fill.

does jref also offer such a simple rule.No, but the JREF has the money they offer.

Hans

[Donks]

So, the important thing, I think, is that this imaginary test with it's imaginary prize not be used as ammunition by these (imaginary?) people when the imaginary deadline passes.

The question is, how?
Oh, it will be, there is no doubt about that. The only thing we can do is make it as clear as possible is that the offer and the money were as fake as the POS remedies they offer.

[Jocce]

First write down the claim which you want to prove? To make an easy task and accessible for everyone, we are not offering anything to prove. Just tell us what you want to prove and submit. WHCC prize for One Million "Dollar" (Amount Increased) is applicable for everything which you want to prove.

I want to prove that I exist.
I write, therefor I am.
Where can I get the money?

[Basilio]

Maybe it is because of his English skills that he doesn't understand the basic question. the rule is:
a. First write down the claim which you want to prove? To make an easy task and accessible for everyone, we are not offering anything to prove. Just tell us what you want to prove and submit. WHCC prize for One Million "Dollar" (Amount Increased) is applicable for everything which you want to prove.

Ok, as an example, what if I sent a letter stating that I can in a game of Jacks pick up 3 jacks with each bounce of the ball and do it 10 times in a row. I lay out a test protocol that we will do 20 runs of 10 bounces each, and a success would be me getting at least 15 runs perfect, all video taped and with high speed cameras. My hands and body could be checked for magnets and other cheating devices.
Would this be an acceptable example(format) of a claim for your prize?

If so, I would like to sumit, and please send my winnings for relief in Darfur

[Dr. A Sheikh]

We want an example of a successful claim.

This I did not follow, for example if you want to prove a claim that homeopathic medicines do not have molecules then this is your object now you will prove it with actuall evidence and after that you will derive your conclusion that homeopathic medicines do not work. This you will send to WHCC office with your complete CV. If your object and conclusion found correct you will win one million US dollar prize money. What is difficult in understanding the first post.

Give us a theoretical successful claim. A demonstration of how your $1M can be won.

Again not followed.

We are not asking for you to re-state the rules, but to give us an example.

What kind of example, an example of this simple claim does not exist in the past as no body ever claimed the prize.

Pretend you are going to try to win your own $1M. Tell us how you would apply, and what you would do to win the $1M.

A complete procedure is given three times in this thread. Why are you asking again. I think, a person who cannot understand this simple mail how can you expect him to prove anything.

First though, you have to show us that you have $1M, or there is no point in applying.

I said, we have and you said, we don't .... now first decide how can it be verified. define a method for verification.

Why should we even start, if you are lying about the $1M?

answers are given in detail. I think no question is left behind.

[Jocce]

Oh and change the lie in your signature:
According to the Skeptics Point of View, modern medical drugs can have a physiological effect at 1x and can be used to treat certain diseases at 1x. But the same medical drugs in homeopathy cannot show any physiological effect in 1x.

Noone said such a thing. Liar liar pants on fire!

[Dr. A Sheikh]

What I understood from your posts are, this is very difficult for you to digest this simple rule. Ask Jref to refrain its rules again on the same ground as whcc is offering. We have removed all the hurdles.

[ChristineR]

Or how about this one: I claim that in umpteen, controlled, blinded, peer-reviewed experiments, homeopathic medicines were shown to be no better than placebo. I also claim that I can easily replicate these results by feeding healthy people homeopathic remedies and placebos and then asking them about the symptoms they feel. I claim that the remedies at potencies of 16X and above will have effects statistically equal to those of placebos, and that lower potency remedies will have effects that correlate negatively with their alledged potency, i.e. 1X remedies will be stronger than 2X, which will stronger than 3X, and so on.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Oh and change the lie in your signature:


Noone said such a thing. Liar liar pants on fire!

I repeat, when I was asked to get registration at this forum, the complete case of skeptics was discussed. How to write and how to behave.;) You are wasting your time in sending those remarks, we are not bothered about these remarks.

Better is to concentrate on the subject matter and discuss on scientific ground what people are posting and what is the requirement of the claim. You can win one million prize so easily. We are intend to give you prize.

[Rolfe]

Or how about this one: I claim that in umpteen, controlled, blinded, peer-reviewed experiments, homeopathic medicines were shown to be no better than placebo. I also claim that I can easily replicate these results by feeding healthy people homeopathic remedies and placebos and then asking them about the symptoms they feel. I claim that the remedies at potencies of 16X and above will have effects statistically equal to those of placebos, and that lower potency remedies will have effects that correlate negatively with their alledged potency, i.e. 1X remedies will be stronger than 2X, which will stronger than 3X, and so on.I still think proving that I can wiggle my ears would be quicker.

Rolfe.

[Nucular]

answers are given in detail. I think no question is left behind.
Riiiiiiight.

for example if you want to prove a claim that homeopathic medicines do not have molecules then this is your object now you will prove it with actuall evidence and after that you will derive your conclusion that homeopathic medicines do not work.
Is this an example of a claim which, if successfully demonstrated, would win your prize?

Obviously, they all have molecules, but I assume you mean of the mother tincture.

If I proposed to obtain a professionally prepared 30C sulphur solution, and use an accepted method, to be agreed by you, to establish that there is no sulphur left in the preparation, would I get the million dollars?

If so, we have a start. After you confirm or deny that this would be an appropriate protocol (with some tweaking, presumably), please send us the details of the bank your million is held in, so we can contact the bank.

PS are they US$?

[Mojo]

I repeat, when I was asked to get registration at this forum, the complete case of skeptics was discussed. How to write and how to behave.;) You are wasting your time in sending those remarks, we are not bothered about these remarks. How can you expect anyone to take anything you say at face value when the signature that appears at the end of each of your posts contains such a brazen lie?

[3point14]

Okay, you're just playing dumb now. Is it impossible for you to understand that we are after a hypothetical example of a successful claim?

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Or how about this one: I claim that in umpteen, controlled, blinded, peer-reviewed experiments, homeopathic medicines were shown to be no better than placebo. I also claim that I can easily replicate these results by feeding healthy people homeopathic remedies and placebos and then asking them about the symptoms they feel. I claim that the remedies at potencies of 16X and above will have effects statistically equal to those of placebos, and that lower potency remedies will have effects that correlate negatively with their alledged potency, i.e. 1X remedies will be stronger than 2X, which will stronger than 3X, and so on.

Good this is the first serious post.

Now prove it and send your proving detail at WHCC office. A committee comprizing of Ph.D doctors will evaluate your claim, challenge and proving detail. If they satisfy with your conclusion you will be the first winner.

[roger]

So you agree with ChristineR? That if the remedies of potenticies of 16X are statistically equal to placebo she will win? Or is she going to send this in, and the committee will decide that it is not sufficient.

You see, the JREF agrees to what will constitute a valid win BEFORE the test takes place. And they sign a legal document.

Is your "Dr. MAS" prepared to sign a legally binding document BEFORE ChristineR runs her test?

[alfaniner]

... We are intend to give you prize.

All your BS are belong to us.

[3point14]

First winner? There are multiple million dollars on offer?

This homeopathy con must be very lucrative!

(and do we know what the cheapest dollar in the world is? What's the minimum amount of money that could be described as 1M dollar?

[Mojo]

If I proposed to obtain a professionally prepared 30C sulphur solution, and use an accepted method, to be agreed by you, to establish that there is no sulphur left in the preparation, The problem here is that there would inevitably be traces of sulphur in the preparation, but they would be present as a result of contaminants in the stock solvent rather than originating in the mother tincture. MAS and his buddies, who would be judging the application, would inevitably insist that any sulphur present, wherever it came from, would invalidate your claim.

Sulphur is sulphur: the only way to prove that there is no sulphur from the mother tincture present is to do the maths involving Avogadro's constant. again, though, MAS and his buddies will be judging the application, and they will simply continue to insist that somehow the maths doesn't apply to homoeopathic preparation.

The challenge is unwinnable. The prize doesn't exist. The whole thing is a smokescreen to disguise the real issue: homoeopathy doesn't work, and the MAS collective are fully aware of this, hence their evasion and lies.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

I'm not asking you to prove that you're ready to prove it, I'm asking you to, ahem, "show me the money".

Where is it held? Can we contact the institution to confirm that they hold the money and that it is indeed yours?

Do you see why we would be loathe to go any further without confirming the existence of the money?

Show me the money first?

(Yes you asked a very good question)

Where is it held?

(another good question indeed)

Earlier all your questions were wrong. Show us the amount exists in a bank, that was a stupid question. We do not think that only a bank can keep the money safe.

Now you have asked appropriate questions.

[Mojo]

What's the minimum amount of money that could be described as 1M dollar?1 dollar diluted 1000 to one.

[Mojo]

Show me the money first?

(Yes you asked a very good question)

Where is it held?

(another good question indeed)

Earlier all your questions were wrong. Show us the amount in a bank, that was a stupid question.

Now you asked appropriate questions.Do you have any plans to answer them in the forseeable future?

[Nucular]

Good this is the first serious post.

Now prove it and send your proving detail at WHCC office. A committee comprizing of Ph.D doctors will evaluate your claim, challenge and proving detail. If they satisfy with your conclusion you will be the first winner.
Why would you need a comittee of PhDs to judge that?

More importantly, who are the PhDs in the committee, and what are their criteria for judging a claim 'successful'?

What currency is the prize money in?

Where is it kept and how can we confirm this?

[LTC8K6]

A complete procedure is given three times in this thread. Why are you asking again. I think, a person who cannot understand this simple mail how can you expect him to prove anything.

We don't want the procedure, we want an example. Forget about the procedure. Just assume that we already understand the procedure. Assume that the procedure is fine and we accept it.

Just pretend that you have applied for your own $1M, and that you have already won it. Explain to us how you won it. Explain to us what you demonstrated about homeopathy that made you the winner of your $1M.

[Donks]

Now you have asked appropriate questions.
Yet you still provided no answers.

[Nucular]

The problem here is that there would inevitably be traces of sulphur in the preparation, but they would be present as a result of contaminants in the stock solvent rather than originating in the mother tincture. MAS and his buddies, who would be judging the application, would inevitably insist that any sulphur present, wherever it came from, would invalidate your claim.
Oh yes, I remember that whole discussion from before. Okay, a poor protocol, but I'm still interested as to whether it would be 'acceptable' to the MAS Collective and its anonymous PhD buddies.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Fine. I will want to prove that I own a blue car. My proof is by scanning the registration papers and mailing them to you. If you doubt the veracity of the paper, you can verifiy it by contacting the Danish authorities. I will open a special bank account you can transfer the money to (no sorry, I won't be giving you my normal account info ;) ).

My registration papers and my CV. Please state if there are any other requirements I have to fill.

No, but the JREF has the money they offer.

Hans

That's why I am lurking for many days, you do not read posts and put remarks without comprehension. the claim should be with reference to homeopathy read details in my posts.

[Mojo]

Oh yes, I remember that whole discussion from before. Okay, a poor protocol, but I'm still interested as to whether it would be 'acceptable' to the MAS Collective and its anonymous PhD buddies.Any protocol will be acceptable to them. They will be sitting as judge and jury in their own cause, and, as demonstrated by Sheikh's signature, they are quite prepared to lie: whatever you do they can still just say "you lose".

[3point14]

Perhaps I'm being premature, but is it time for recipies and bunnies yet - this guy is doing my head in.

ETA - Kittens, damnit!

[Donks]

That's why I am lurking for many days, you do not read posts and put remarks without comprehension. the claim should be with reference to homeopathy read details in my posts.
The claim should be in reference to homeopathy? Great. I claim that a 1X homeopathic remedy will contain molecules from the mother tincture. Is that a valid claim?

[Johnny Pixels]

If anyone's interested, I think the burnt bank is the Alfalah Bank in Lahore, set on fire by protestors against Mohammed cartoons.

Link (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C02%5C15%5Cstory_15-2-2006_pg7_14)

[MRC_Hans]

That's why I am lurking for many days, you do not read posts and put remarks without comprehension. the claim should be with reference to homeopathy read details in my posts.I think you have a problem with reality, my good Sheikh. You mention nowhere that it has to have anything to do with homeopathy, quite the contrary: You write that the problem with homeopathy is settled and is no longer an issue (which is also wrong, but that is another matter).

Hans

[Nucular]

Any protocol will be acceptable to them. They will be sitting as judge and jury in their own cause, and, as demonstrated by Sheikh's signature, they are quite prepared to lie: whatever you do they can still just say "you lose".
Well, yeah. It would just be nice to get some illusion of progression from this absurd thread. Obviously, the prize does not exist, and obviously even if it did, it wouldn't be awarded to anyone - but the closer we can come to getting some kind of progression towards it, the more they have to wriggle, and the dumber they'll look (if they could look any dumber).

That's why I wish Sheikh would help out LLH on the NCH thread about this, and follow up ChristineR's proposal. But more than anything I wish he'd just answer the simple questions he's been asked over and over.

[Mojo]

That's why I am lurking for many days...I thought it was because you'd got yourself suspended.

[Hitch]

The problem here is that there would inevitably be traces of sulphur in the preparation, but they would be present as a result of contaminants in the stock solvent rather than originating in the mother tincture. MAS and his buddies, who would be judging the application, would inevitably insist that any sulphur present, wherever it came from, would invalidate your claim.

Sulphur is sulphur: the only way to prove that there is no sulphur from the mother tincture present is to do the maths involving Avogadro's constant. again, though, MAS and his buddies will be judging the application, and they will simply continue to insist that somehow the maths doesn't apply to homoeopathic preparation.

The challenge is unwinnable. The prize doesn't exist. The whole thing is a smokescreen to disguise the real issue: homoeopathy doesn't work, and the MAS collective are fully aware of this, hence their evasion and lies.
Maybe you're coming at this from the wrong direction. There probably would be trace amounts of sulfur in the final solution and it would be very difficult to prove where they came from. But, what if you asked for a sample of both the final solution (with a trace of sulfur) and the stock solvent. Would the process be invalidated if any trace of sulfur could be found in the stock solvent before anything was done to it?

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Riiiiiiight.


Is this an example of a claim which, if successfully demonstrated, would win your prize?

Obviously, they all have molecules, but I assume you mean of the mother tincture.

If I proposed to obtain a professionally prepared 30C sulphur solution, and use an accepted method, to be agreed by you, to establish that there is no sulphur left in the preparation, would I get the million dollars?

If so, we have a start. After you confirm or deny that this would be an appropriate protocol (with some tweaking, presumably), please send us the details of the bank your million is held in, so we can contact the bank.

PS are they US$?

I quoted an example of mine. The example has no link with the exact explanation of the object of WHCC.

You said "If I proposed to obtain a professionally prepared 30C sulphur solution, and use an accepted method, to be agreed by you, to establish that there is no sulphur left in the preparation, would I get the million dollars?"

I cannot confirm for WHCC. You may and may not. send your claim at WHCC and find out.

[Mojo]

Maybe you're coming at this from the wrong direction. There probably would be trace amounts of sulfur in the final solution and it would be very difficult to prove where they came from. But, what if you asked for a sample of both the final solution (with a trace of sulfur) and the stock solvent. Would the process be invalidated if any trace of sulfur could be found in the stock solvent before anything was done to it?In principle, you're right, but they would still be able to claim that some of the sulphur present was magic potentised sulphur from the MT.

Really, of course, the claim is theirs: that there is a difference between the two samples. It should be down to them to demonstrate this.

[ChristineR]

Dr., if I do go to the time and trouble and expense of performing and documenting my experiment, I will want my $1,000,000. I'll need to know what criteria your PhD judges will be using so that I can be sure to meet your criteria. After all, it would be a shame to go through all that and be told that my experiment is rejected for some unimportant reason. Therefore you will need to state clearly in advance under what conditions you will award the money.

Keep in mind that making a statement like this on a public forum can be considered as a verbal contract to award the money, and that failure to do so, should I actually conduct my tests, and meet your criteria, will make you subject to legal penalties. I strongly suggest that you consult a lawyer. I can assure you that I will consult a lawyer trained in US and Pakistani law before I go to the expense of conducting my demonstration.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

We don't want the procedure, we want an example. Forget about the procedure. Just assume that we already understand the procedure. Assume that the procedure is fine and we accept it.

Just pretend that you have applied for your own $1M, and that you have already won it. Explain to us how you won it. Explain to us what you demonstrated about homeopathy that made you the winner of your $1M.

second para: This you have to decide what you want to prove about homeopathy. I can't say anthing what should be proved. You see, I gave an example, and nucular understanding is it is the right demand (object) of the claim. Kindly see, it is you who have to decide what you want to prove we cannot suggest you anything.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Do you have any plans to answer them in the forseeable future?

Let me check first from WHCC.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I quoted an example of mine. The example has no link with the exact explanation of the object of WHCC.

You said "If I proposed to obtain a professionally prepared 30C sulphur solution, and use an accepted method, to be agreed by you, to establish that there is no sulphur left in the preparation, would I get the million dollars?"

I cannot confirm for WHCC. You may and may not. send your claim at WHCC and find out.

"Dr. A Sheikh"

You clearly demonstrate you have no familiarity with the following items:
(1) scientific method
(2) escrow accounts and similar functionality
(3) defining exact parameters/conditions under which a contest can be one

You clearly demonstrate you do have familiarity with the following items:
(1) phishing
(2) identity thieft methodology
(3) trolling

Please, keep posting until I have enough evidence to report you to the US FBI so they can investigate you in the same manner as the Nigerian 419 scammers.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Dr A,

I would like to join MAS.org! What is the initiation fee? Are there cool t-shirts?

Thanks!

[petre]

Alright, I sent my claim a few days ago, though to make sure it arrived alright I sent it to a friend of mine that works in a bank near you. He accidently left it on his desk, but he said first thing in the morning he'd go get it and...

oh dang.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

The claim should be in reference to homeopathy? Great. I claim that a 1X homeopathic remedy will contain molecules from the mother tincture. Is that a valid claim?

Ok you can proceed for challenge prize money. I have no problem.

[Hawk one]

Oh, and I'm not letting you go on the main issue here:

Show us evidence that you do in fact have one million dollars available as prize money!

Again, if you're really serious about this so-called "challenge", that's the first thing you must do! Stop lying, stop evading the issue, and prove to us you do in fact have the money! Why should we trust you as long as you don't? Especially considering you've been lying so many other times?

[Johnny Pixels]

I get the feeling that the same bank probably holds a lot of Nigerian money as well. They just need someone to sign the insurance papers so they can collect it, and then spilt it 70/30 with you.

http://www.quatrocantos.com/lendas/nigerianos/images/money.jpg

[Mojo]

Ok you can proceed for challenge prize money. I have no problem.It'll be interesting to see what excuse Sheikh and MAS come up with to get out of this one...

[Dr. A Sheikh]

If anyone's interested, I think the burnt bank is the Alfalah Bank in Lahore, set on fire by protestors against Mohammed cartoons.

Link (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C02%5C15%5Cstory_15-2-2006_pg7_14)

No your information is poor and based on net knowledge. That bank is located only 100 yard from MAS residence.

[Hitch]

Dr. A Sheikh,

There seems to be considerable concern about whether the $1 million you are offering really exists. You are being asked to confirm that it is real. People have asked for verifiable information about the bank account where this money is kept. You responded with a picture of a bank that burned. (And if I followed the shaky logic there, this was to show that a burned to the ground bank would not necessarily be able to offer confirmation of accounts.) Be that as it may, here's a simple first step. Contact the MAS collective* and find out the name of the bank where the $1 million is kept. For right now we don't need any details of account information, just the name of the bank and post that for us.

Keep in mind; the people on this forum are quite resourceful. They will do their best to confirm whether this is a real bank or not. They may even contact the bank (if real) and let them know that someone is using the banks name to bolster (possibly fraudulent) claims of having $1 million on deposit.

So, can you tell us the name of the bank?


*It's so hard to type that without laughing.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Dr. A Sheikh,

There seems to be considerable concern about whether the $1 million you are offering really exists. You are being asked to confirm that it is real. People have asked for verifiable information about the bank account where this money is kept. You responded with a picture of a bank that burned. (And if I followed the shaky logic there, this was to show that a burned to the ground bank would not necessarily be able to offer confirmation of accounts.) Be that as it may, here's a simple first step. Contact the MAS collective* and find out the name of the bank where the $1 million is kept. For right now we don't need any details of account information, just the name of the bank and post that for us.

Keep in mind; the people on this forum are quite resourceful. They will do their best to confirm whether this is a real bank or not. They may even contact the bank (if real) and let them know that someone is using the banks name to bolster (possibly fraudulent) claims of having $1 million on deposit.

So, can you tell us the name of the bank?


*It's so hard to type that without laughing.

Of course it doesn't matter if the money is in an account or not. Unless it is being held by a third party escrow service there is now way to guarantee you will receive it even if you "win" their "challenge".

[Psiload]

Let me check first from WHCC.

Wouldn't it be a hell of a lot easier if the WHCC just came out with some protocol guidelines and/or examples of acceptable claim protocols rather than claimants having to submit each and every protocol proposal for "confirmation"?

Another question...

Do requests for confirmation also have to be accompanied by a complete written CV?

[Donks]

No your information is poor and based on net knowledge. That bank is located only 100 yard from MAS residence.
Okay, to what address do I have to send my entry? When do I get my money?

[Nucular]

So... an anonymous poster on the internet, who has a proven history of lying and making things up, promises us a million dollars in an unspecified currency, with no reason to think it exists, if we do something that remains unspecified. We have to guess what that thing is, and we have to send any guesses we have to an address in Pakistan, along with various personal details of ours.

Forgive me, Fheikh, if I pass on this wonderful offer of yours. But I would be interested in any bridges you have to sell me. I attach a scan of my credit card, driving licence and passport.

http://www.bnz.co.nz/images/users/ClassicVisaFern.gif

http://www.bbc.co.uk/southerncounties/community/learn/images/licence_270.jpg

http://spl.haxial.net/nigerian-fraud/passport.jpg

Thanks.

[Hawk one]

Of course it doesn't matter if the money is in an account or not. Unless it is being held by a third party escrow service there is now way to guarantee you will receive it even if you "win" their "challenge".

That is of course the next step they'll have to provide. But as I'm sure you'll understand, it's quite a chore to even get them through the first step: Proving that the money exists. So let's focus on that first step for now, OK?

[Dr. A Sheikh]

"Dr. A Sheikh"

Please, keep posting until I have enough evidence to report you to the US FBI so they can investigate you in the same manner as the Nigerian 419 scammers.

If you do then it will be a kind of blessing on us from you. Please I request you, it is my earnet desire to please report it immediatly. I will be highly grateful to you. You will solve our problem for ever.

[Hitch]

That is of course the next step they'll have to provide. But as I'm sure you'll understand, it's quite a chore to even get them through the first step: Proving that the money exists. So let's focus on that first step for now, OK?
I think you're giving them too much credit The first step (which I doubt they'll be able to complete) is providing the name of a bank* in Pakistan. We'll leave the question of if they have any money at all in it for later. (I doubt we'll have to worry about that.)

* any bank.

[sackett]

Dr. Sheikh sir, I have been sent you dis-proof of all homeopathy remedies some long time since. All evidences along quadruple-blind study I am have been doing is in your receipt insured mail. Why you are not sending $1 million dollars, please?

Kindly Do not Say, that this the above per my mailings is not true. I am thinking you are maybe most likely for sure big big liar-man! You cannot prove I did not show homopathology to be untruth, now can you?

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Dr. A Sheikh,

There seems to be considerable concern about whether the $1 million you are offering really exists. You are being asked to confirm that it is real. People have asked for verifiable information about the bank account where this money is kept. You responded with a picture of a bank that burned. (And if I followed the shaky logic there, this was to show that a burned to the ground bank would not necessarily be able to offer confirmation of accounts.) Be that as it may, here's a simple first step. Contact the MAS collective* and find out the name of the bank where the $1 million is kept. For right now we don't need any details of account information, just the name of the bank and post that for us.

Keep in mind; the people on this forum are quite resourceful. They will do their best to confirm whether this is a real bank or not. They may even contact the bank (if real) and let them know that someone is using the banks name to bolster (possibly fraudulent) claims of having $1 million on deposit.

So, can you tell us the name of the bank?


*It's so hard to type that without laughing.

I am also laughing at your mental level. Why you are keep on insisting that the money should be in bank?

[Mojo]

I am also laughing at your mental level. Why you are keep on insisting that the money should be in bank?OK, tell us where the mattress you've hidden it in is.

[Nucular]

I am also laughing at your mental level. Why you are keep on insisting that the money should be in bank?
Where. Is. The. Money.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

If you do then it will be a kind of blessing on us from you. Please I request you, it is my earnet desire to please report it immediatly. I will be highly grateful to you. You will solve our problem for ever.

Very well, I have made the moderators of the forum aware of this and will be coordinating any of my efforts with them to take this to the proper authorities, should it be the correct course of action.

[3point14]

Where else could one keep a million?????

[Hawk one]

Seems that A Sheikh is still evading the issue. Guess what, Sheikh, I'm not going to let you go here:

Show us evidence that you do in fact have one million dollars available as prize money!

Again, if you're really serious about this so-called "challenge", that's the first thing you must do! Stop lying, stop evading the issue, and prove to us that you do in fact have the money! Why should we trust you as long as you don't? Especially considering you've been lying so many other times?

Posted twice, and counting.

[Hitch]

Where. Is. The. Money.
A Ha! I knew they couldn't do it. I should be a homeopathic millionaire by now.


Oh wait, I think I am.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

I think you have a problem with reality, my good Sheikh. You mention nowhere that it has to have anything to do with homeopathy, quite the contrary: You write that the problem with homeopathy is settled and is no longer an issue (which is also wrong, but that is another matter).

Hans

To us the problem is settled, if not you can win one million dollar. simple is that.

[Johnny Pixels]

I am also laughing at your mental level. Why you are keep on insisting that the money should be in bank?


Then why the pictures of the bank fire?

[sackett]

Oh good gracious, it is I am thinking now that perhaps Dr. Sheikh has sended money to me already and is embarrassed to be telling it just quite yet soon! After all, very big thing when homopathic is dis-proved once and for all finis kaput!

Dr. Sheikh, sir, I am sorry to be too quick and hasty with you! As soon as $1 million dollars is in my hand, I will tell forum so!

All you fellows very hard tough on Dr. Sheikh sir, I am thinking for little while yet that he is very good-wallah homopath doctor and healer! You cannot prove I do not think that, I am thinking! Shall I perhaps laughing at your minds?

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Dr., if I do go to the time and trouble and expense of performing and documenting my experiment, I will want my $1,000,000. I'll need to know what criteria your PhD judges will be using so that I can be sure to meet your criteria. After all, it would be a shame to go through all that and be told that my experiment is rejected for some unimportant reason. Therefore you will need to state clearly in advance under what conditions you will award the money.

Keep in mind that making a statement like this on a public forum can be considered as a verbal contract to award the money, and that failure to do so, should I actually conduct my tests, and meet your criteria, will make you subject to legal penalties. I strongly suggest that you consult a lawyer. I can assure you that I will consult a lawyer trained in US and Pakistani law before I go to the expense of conducting my demonstration.

You don't have to worry about that criteria of PhD. That criteria is set for WHCC own understanding not for accepting or rejecting your claim.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Oh, and I'm not letting you go on the main issue here:

Show us evidence that you do in fact have one million dollars available as prize money!

Again, if you're really serious about this so-called "challenge", that's the first thing you must do! Stop lying, stop evading the issue, and prove to us you do in fact have the money! Why should we trust you as long as you don't? Especially considering you've been lying so many other times?

How can I show you? any method procedure etc?

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Okay, to what address do I have to send my entry? When do I get my money?

read all pages again. you are missing many points here.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

How can I show you? any method procedure etc?

Are you truly this dense?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escrow
"
Escrow
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Escrow is a legal arrangement whereby an asset (often money, but sometimes other property such as art, a deed of title, or software source code) is delivered to a third party (called an escrow agent) to be held in trust pending a contingency or the fulfillment of a condition or conditions in a contract. Upon that event occurring, the escrow agent will deliver the asset to the proper recipient, otherwise the escrow agent is bound by his or her fiduciary duty to maintain the escrow account.

While escrow is best known in the context of real estate (specifically in mortgages where the mortgage company will establish an escrow account to pay property tax and insurance), escrow companies are also commonly used in the transfer of higher value properties like websites and businesses and in relation to person to person auctions (eBay).

Real estate agents are in some jurisdictions considered to act as escrow agents when they accept deposits for the purchase of real property.

Software source code escrow agents hold source code in escrow in the event that the creator of the source code refuses or is unable to release the source code to the user of specialised software if that software no longer functions or in certain other events.

The word "escrow" is derived from the Middle English word "escrowl", meaning "scroll".
"

[Psiload]

How can I show you? any method procedure etc? This is how the JREF does it. You should follow their lead.

3. Questions about the prize money

3.1. Does the prize money really exist?
3.2. That's interesting evidence, but I still don't believe that the money exists.
3.3. If someone wins, how will they be paid?

http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html#3.1

[alfaniner]

To us the problem is settled, if not you can win one million dollar. simple is that.
http://www.thetshirtgame.com/showmethemoney.gif

[Mojo]

read all pages again. you are missing many points here.If you don't want to post it again, just provide a link to the address.

[Hawk one]

How can I show you? any method procedure etc?

I have already told you one good method, and others have also provided you clues on what should be the most basic issue to settle. If you had been serious about this prize, you would have solved this matter before you even started this thread, because you must damn well have known we were going to ask you about this.

So, once again:

Show us evidence that you do in fact have one million dollars available as prize money!

Again, if you're really serious about this so-called "challenge", that's the first thing you must do! Stop lying, stop evading the issue, and prove to us you do in fact have the money! Why should we trust you as long as you don't? Especially considering you've been lying so many other times?

Each time you post without providing evidence, I'll keep up my demand. Three times, and counting.

Edited to add quote and referring to other posters.

[Donks]

read all pages again. you are missing many points here.
What mailing address do I send it to? When will I get my money? Don't worry about what points I may or may not be missing, just answer the simple, straight questions. You can do that, can't you?

[3point14]

read all pages again. you are missing many points here.


Does it not make you stop and think when so many people are apparently missing what you've been saying? Doesn't it make you think 'perhaps all these people have a point and you haven't supplied the information? Doesn't it make you think that perhaps you should answer their questions with a straight bat? - there are some pretty clever people kknocking about on these forums, phd, doctors, all sorts, and not one of them has understood entirely what you claim to have already explained? doesn't that make you think that you're maybe not explaining adequately? or backing up any of your points (like where's the million?)

I say again, if it's not held in a bank, where on earth is it held??


And is it just me, or does this guy's english deteriorate proportional to how far into the corner he's been backed?

[Complexity]

I am also laughing at your mental level. Why you are keep on insisting that the money should be in bank?
I think I understand... the wacky I'm sure you're unaware of it, but in the UK the word "P*ki" is about on a par with n****r in the US. Please try to bear this in mind - this is an international forum. homeopaths haven't stolen the money yet.

[The_Fire]

This is a new spin to a nigerian scam, isn't it? I wonder if the pakistani officials could be of help........

SHOW ME EVIDENCE THAT THESE ALLEGED 1.000.000 SMACKAROES EXISTS OR BE KNOWN AS THE PATHOLOGICAL LIAR YOU ARE SHEIKH!

[Complexity]

You don't have to worry about that criteria of PhD. That criteria is set for WHCC own understanding not for accepting or rejecting your claim.
Whew - I was worried that you might try to use Pakistani Ph.D.s, and I was going to have to object to their not being acceptable.

Since the criteria is "set for WHCC['s] own understanding...", there is no possibility of a claim being accepted. Cretins like "Dr." MAS and "Dr." Sheikh are examples of what passes for intellect at WHCC, and "they" can't reason their way out of a paper bag.

[Hitch]

How can I show you? any method procedure etc?
Start with just any information about where it is.

Is it on deposit somewhere?

Is it in your back pocket?

Is it on the moon?

anything.

[Nucular]

Sheikh, perhaps we're being uncharitable. Perhaps you have also been misled, and we're blaming you for the machinations of others.

I think perhaps you have simply been told to say there is a million dollars. You have been shown no evidence that it exists, and indeed, are as unclear as we are about what one would have to do to obtain it even if it did.

Am I right?

If so, please say so and we'll go from there.

Do you wonder if maybe, just maybe, there is no million dollars, and you're lying on behalf of people who are too cowardly to come here and lie themselves? Careful not to land yourself in legal trouble over this.

ETA: tell us what you know.

[money]

I'm re-reading Sheikh's posts, but I haven't been able to find if he has verified what currency the "one million dollar prize money" would be awarded in.

Or even if the prize is a cash prize.

Maybe they have a prize goat out back named "one million dollar prize money" or something equally ridiculous.

Before jumping to "where is the money located?" He needs to verify if the prize in American dollars or rupees or shekels, or what have you.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I'm re-reading Sheikh's posts, but I haven't been able to find if he has verified what currency the "one million dollar prize money" would be awarded in.

Or even if the prize is a cash prize.

Maybe they have a prize goat out back named "one million dollar prize money" or something equally ridiculous.

Before jumping to "where is the money located?" He needs to verify if the prize in American dollars or rupees or shekels, or what have you.

This entire charade is starting to remind me of Oscar (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102603/)
"So, your daughter's not your daughter, and the cash (that used to be the jewels) is now your underwear?"
"You got it."
"I got it! Whataminute. I don't even know what I'm talkin' about!"

[LTC8K6]

Those pics look like the KFC that was burned along with a Muslim Commercial Bank branch and a National Bank branch.

[Donks]

This entire charade is starting to remind me of Oscar (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102603/)
"So, your daughter's not your daughter, and the cash (that used to be the jewels) is now your underwear?"
"You got it."
"I got it! Whataminute. I don't even know what I'm talkin' about!"
I like that movie! Maybe one day I'll find someone that agrees with me.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I like that movie! Maybe one day I'll find someone that agrees with me.

I've got it on DVD :D (US$5.00 at Best Buy).

[alfaniner]

This entire charade is starting to remind me of Oscar ...

It reminds me of the closing credit sequence of the Simpsons' Ray Romano episode.

Ray: Be sure to watch Everybody Loves Raymond Monday night at 9pm on CBS.
Homer: Watch what?
Ray: Everybody Loves Raymond.
Homer: When?
Ray: Monday at 9.
Homer: AM?
Ray: PM.
Homer: So,Thursday at 9.
Ray: No, Monday at 9.
Homer: On Fox?
Ray: CBS. Monday at 9 on CBS.
Homer: What's on then?


...and so on.

[Apex Rogers]

Where's the money, Lebowski? :D

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Start with just any information about where it is.

Is it on deposit somewhere?

Is it in your back pocket?

Is it on the moon?

anything.

Good question. Let give mas chance to answer this ... wait I am calling him, he is going to get online in short time.

[Jeff Corey]

Dr. Sheikh Yaboodie
My million dollar monkey just died. So I want your million dollar monkey to substitute. Please let me know how to receive him. If Fed Ex, please put breathing holes in the carton. We have very strict rules about abusing monkeys.
And cows.
http://gprime.net/flash.php/imacow

[Ladewig]

I usually don't like to be the first to bring up this topic, but I think the only appropriate response to Dr. MAS is http://www.puzzlegrid.com/kitten/

[AnotherSillyAlias]

Dr. Sheikh Yaboodie
My million dollar monkey just died. So I want your million dollar monkey to substitute. Please let me know how to receive him. If Fed Ex, please put breathing holes in the carton. We have very strict rules about abusing monkeys.
And cows.
http://gprime.net/flash.php/imacow

What about wombats?

[Jeff Corey]

We have no strict rules about wombats.As long as they have been shaven, most particularly around the naughty parts.

[Dr. MAS]

Thanks Sheikh

Wait I have to take the picture first. wait I am just coming. Our skeptics do not believe unless evidence is provided.

Ok
I am back again

http://www.upload2.com/files/img/6933337e2bffeb4449f5c8911b1e1693.jpg

That was the bank ....

[TruthSeeker]

Thanks Sheikh

Wait I have to take the picture first. wait I am just coming. Our skeptics do not believe unless evidence is provided.


This is very exciting. I feel all giggly waiting for the picture.

[Jeff Corey]

Not a dry seat in the house! The anticipation!

[Jeff Corey]

http://gprime.net/flash.php/imacow
While we wait with bated breath, check out the cow.

[Zep]

A picture of a bank, eh, MAS? Well, anyone can do that! And it goes nowhere to prove the existence of your infantile million-dollar prize either.

Try again, do.

Meanwhile, here's my own billion-pound sterling bank account. Well, it's a picture of a bank, which is good enough for you, isn't it!

Twerp.

http://www.times-publications.com/publications/ERSpring03/images/bank-of-england.jpg

[AnotherSillyAlias]

If that's supposed to be a picture of an Indian bank it's obviously a fake. Where are the 50 trillion people that would be milling around in front of it if it were real? Every building in India has 50 trillion people milling around in front of it. I've seen it on TV, it must be true.

[Z]

Zep, you jerk... would you PLEASE stop posting pictures of my house?

[joller]

Thanks Sheikh

Wait I have to take the picture first. wait I am just coming. Our skeptics do

That was the bank ....

I realise there actually was a picture once in this post, but is this a joke?
Besides what does 'That was the bank' mean?
It's not there any more? I thought you just took the picture!

Dr. MAS, can you guys just tell us the name of the bank?
Besides, you jost post a picture of a bank - and I thought you argued for some time the money isn't in a bank, but somewhere else!

I do not believe any university would give you a degree.
I think in Australia and possibly U.S. you would qualify for some sort of social security payment, becuase of your low IQ.
The whole prize is obviously a scam, not sure whether you want to prove something or just troll.

[Gulliamo]

How?I can personally recommend a sound financial institution that would be willing to accept the money and comply with repeated requests to verify its existence. They may also be able to offer you a competitive return on your investment.

Try http://www.goldmansachs.com/our_firm/index.html

If it's good enough for the JREF...

[CFLarsen]

A picture of a bank is supposed to be evidence of the money?

Dr MAS Collectively: That won't do.

I really, really hope you can understand that.

[anor277]

Dr Sheikh, not only have you failed to provide details as to your bank account, you have not indicated in what currency the hypothetical million dollars will be paid. US dollars, Euros, Australian, Canadian, Fijian, dollars????
This is a simple question, and it was posed on the opening page of this thread. Would you care to address it?

[Complexity]

MAS/Sheikh - Thanks, but I already have a Monopoly set.

[aggle-rithm]

Maybe we're being a little disingenuous here. After all, many woos use the excuse "the prize money isn't real" to avoid trying for the Randi prize. This is easily recognized as an evasion tactic to avoid the real issue: They can't do what they claim. We skeptics can be accused of evasion as well if we focus too much on the prize money and not enough on the greater implications of PROVING, once and for all, that homeopathy is a sham.

Therefore, I think the main question should be: What would be an example of acceptable proof that homeopathy is a sham?

I know Dr. S has had great difficulty understanding this, but if we remove the money issue from the discussion, perhaps his mental fog will lift sufficiently so that he can begin to comprehend this simple question. (I know; I'm an idealist.)

[drkitten]

Maybe we're being a little disingenuous here. After all, many woos use the excuse "the prize money isn't real" to avoid trying for the Randi prize. This is easily recognized as an evasion tactic to avoid the real issue: They can't do what they claim. We skeptics can be accused of evasion as well if we focus too much on the prize money and not enough on the greater implications of PROVING, once and for all, that homeopathy is a sham.

Fair enough. I still, however, need a contact name and address in order to be able to apply. In the Randi Foundation's case, the foundation (JREF) itself is located at 201 S.E. 12th St. (E. Davie Blvd.) in Fort Lauderdale, I can contact them by phone at +1 954 467 1112, and the contact person to whom the
materials should be sent is Kramer (using the email address challenge@randi.org).

I can confirm the existence and bona fides of this group fairly simply.

I can't confirm the existence of "our office" (what is it called?), and "Kharian Pakistan" is hardly an address to which I can mail things. Who's the person I am supposed to talk to?

[Interesting Ian]

Maybe we're being a little disingenuous here. After all, many woos use the excuse "the prize money isn't real" to avoid trying for the Randi prize.

Of course it's real! It's just unwinnable given the extent of peoples' psychic abilities and what they demand you demonstrate.

[Rolfe]

OK, explain how the homoeopaths haven't been able to win it, then. Surely distinguishing between one of their "potentised" remedis and the stock solvent it was made from isn't that marginal an ability, if the stuff has real effects on people?

Rolfe.

[Dragon]

Of course it's real! It's just unwinnable given the extent of peoples' psychic abilities and what they demand you demonstrate.(my bold)

Interesting, Ian - what do you consider "the extent of peoples' psychic abilities" to be?

[Mojo]

Surely distinguishing between one of their "potentised" remedis and the stock solvent it was made from isn't that marginal an ability, if the stuff has real effects on people? See? Ian told you it was unwinnable. ;)

[Mojo]

Of course it's real! It's just unwinnable given the extent of peoples' psychic abilities and what they demand you demonstrate.Agreed. They demand that to be successful, an applicant demonstrates a real psychic ability, and this makes it unwinnable given the extent of peoples' psychic abilities.

[brettDbass]

Of course it's real! It's totally winnable too, except for the non-existance of psychic abilities.
I think that must be what he meant... no?

:p

[Interesting Ian]

OK, explain how the homoeopaths haven't been able to win it, then. Surely distinguishing between one of their "potentised" remedis and the stock solvent it was made from isn't that marginal an ability, if the stuff has real effects on people?

Rolfe.

I don't know. Maybe because Homeopathy doesn't exist? Or maybe it does but they don't succeed for some other reason. I have no idea. I know nothing about homeopathy and I am in no position to comment.

[Interesting Ian]

(my bold)

Interesting, Ian - what do you consider "the extent of peoples' psychic abilities" to be?

I think it's a bit of a hit and miss affair. I don't think that they can exhibit psychic abilities at will. Maybe they need to be in an appropriate psychological state, or/and other factors need to be present.

[Hitch]

Thanks Sheikh

Wait I have to take the picture first. wait I am just coming. Our skeptics do not believe unless evidence is provided.

Ok
I am back again

http://www.upload2.com/files/img/6933337e2bffeb4449f5c8911b1e1693.jpg

That was the bank ....
Okay, all I'm getting is a broken image. I didn't ask for a picture. I wanted a name (and helpfully an address) for the bank. But it's really not important, your evasiveness has told everyone all they need to know.

I do notice you use the term "was" in past tense. Is the bank gone? Is the $1 million also gone, then? Are you withdrawing your offer due to lack of prize money?

[Z]

I think it's a bit of a hit and miss affair. I don't think that they can exhibit psychic abilities at will. Maybe they need to be in an appropriate psychological state, or/and other factors need to be present.

As weird as this will sound, I will say... if psychic abilites do exist, Ian's right about how they exist. Entirely hit-or-miss, in fact... and probably as dependent on random or unknown factors as headaches and general malaise are.

[Hellbound]

As weird as this will sound, I will say... if psychic abilites do exist, Ian's right about how they exist. Entirely hit-or-miss, in fact... and probably as dependent on random or unknown factors as headaches and general malaise are.

Of course, this immediately brings up the question of why these con men and scam artists are then claiming that they do have command over their abilities, to the point of scheduling shows and readings.

[alfaniner]

... I have no idea. I know nothing about homeopathy and I am in no position to comment.

That never stopped you from commenting before on that about which you know nothing. And at great length, I might add.

[Mojo]

Could this (http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5627294,00.html) be MAS's missing million? ;)

[Nucular]

I think perhaps the money's in International Dollars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_dollar), a "hypothetical unit of currency". It would therefore be kept in a hypothetical bank (hence the error displaying the photo and the difficulty supplying an address).

I only wish the MAS Collective were as hypothetical.

[brettDbass]

You're all wrong, I've worked it out.

It's Altarian Dollars... that's why he can offer a million of them because, as we all know, the Altarian Dollar has recently collapsed (http://www.dedanaan.com/category/hhgttm/u/)

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Dr Sheikh, not only have you failed to provide details as to your bank account, you have not indicated in what currency the hypothetical million dollars will be paid. US dollars, Euros, Australian, Canadian, Fijian, dollars????
This is a simple question, and it was posed on the opening page of this thread. Would you care to address it?

Please do not wrongly interpreate my statement. You were saying, a bank can only provide you the real evidence that money is actually exists. While I was saying a bank cannot be a real evidence because if the money was in the bank (which I have no idea where it is) then that bank which was located infront mas home has been burnt completely.

The missing picture is here

http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=629

[Mojo]

Did MAS (or someone else associated with his "prize") have an account with the bank (which seems to be called "Bank Alfalah Limited")?

If so, was MAS's missing million in the account?

If you can't answer "yes" to both of these questions, the bank is entirely irrelevant.

[3point14]

Oh, come on - must be kitten time now he's deliberately misunderstood for the umpteenth time.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Fair enough. I still, however, need a contact name and address in order to be able to apply. In the Randi Foundation's case, the foundation (JREF) itself is located at 201 S.E. 12th St. (E. Davie Blvd.) in Fort Lauderdale, I can contact them by phone at +1 954 467 1112, and the contact person to whom the
materials should be sent is Kramer (using the email address challenge@randi.org).

I can confirm the existence and bona fides of this group fairly simply.

I can't confirm the existence of "our office" (what is it called?), and "Kharian Pakistan" is hardly an address to which I can mail things. Who's the person I am supposed to talk to?

Note the Address:
Dr. MAS
Iqbal Homeopathic Clinic
Near Committee Office
Main Market, Kharian
Pakistan

[Nucular]

Thanks Sheikh

Wait I have to take the picture first. wait I am just coming. Our skeptics do not believe unless evidence is provided.

Ok
I am back again

http://www.upload2.com/files/img/6933337e2bffeb4449f5c8911b1e1693.jpg

That was the bank ....
MAS, let me ask you directly since Sheikh by his own admission has "no idea":

1) What currency is the million dollars in?

2) Does it still exist?

3) If so, where is it?

Thanks.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Okay, all I'm getting is a broken image. I didn't ask for a picture. I wanted a name (and helpfully an address) for the bank. But it's really not important, your evasiveness has told everyone all they need to know.

I do notice you use the term "was" in past tense. Is the bank gone? Is the $1 million also gone, then? Are you withdrawing your offer due to lack of prize money?

According to the latest news confirmed by Dr. MAS is

The amount was not in the bank.

Dr. MAS does not hold or maintain any bank account neither any paypal or visa system etc.

[alfaniner]

Oh, come on - must be kitten time now he's deliberately misunderstood for the umpteenth time.

To the MAS collective:

Be sure to watch Everybody Loves Raymond Monday night at 9pm on CBS.

[LTC8K6]

It's just unwinnable given the extent of peoples' psychic abilities and what they demand you demonstrate.

Where does this demand come from?

I could have sworn that it was the psychic who decided what they would demonstrate to win the prize? Don't they have to fill out a form stipulating what they will demonstrate? Isn't this agreed to by both parties before the test. Did I get that wrong?

[Mojo]

According to the latest news confirmed by Dr. MAS is

The amount was not in the bank.

Dr. MAS does not hold or maintain any bank account neither any paypal or visa system etc.So where's the money?

[drkitten]

Note the Address:
Dr. MAS
Iqbal Homeopathic Clinic
Near Committee Office
Main Market, Kharian
Pakistan

Thank you. Is "Dr. MAS" a genuine person's name, a nickname, a business name?

[Nucular]

According to the latest news confirmed by Dr. MAS is

The amount was not in the bank.

Dr. MAS does not hold or maintain any bank account neither any paypal or visa system etc.
We're not very interested as to where the money isn't. I haven't got it either, if you were wondering.

What we would rather more like to know is where it is.

Thanks.

[Hitch]

According to the latest news confirmed by Dr. MAS is

The amount was not in the bank.

Dr. MAS does not hold or maintain any bank account neither any paypal or visa system etc.
Does this mean Dr. MAS does not have the money?

Does this mean Dr. MAS will be withdrawing the offer since he can't pay?

[Hastur]

Okay, I'll bite since I am bored.
Please do not wrongly interpreate my statement. You were saying, a bank can only provide you the real evidence that money is actually exists.
The only reliable real evidence; a statement of account. Pictures of bills and statements from the holder are not reliable evidence.

While I was saying a bank cannot be a real evidence because if the money was in the bank (which I have no idea where it is) then that bank which was located infront mas home has been burnt completely.
If a bank is destroyed by fire, the money is not destroyed, at least in most developed nations. An account is merely an entry in a database; so long as there is an entry, the account (ergo, the money) still exists. Banks are very cautious about this sort of thing and invest in backup servers, fire-proof rooms, and keep the information in multiple, isolated places. Then again, that is the developed nation. I'm sure Pakistan has yet to advance beyond abaci and long division.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

MAS, let me ask you directly since Sheikh by his own admission has "no idea":

1) What currency is the million dollars in?

2) Does it still exist?

3) If so, where is it?

Thanks.

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/875/alfalah30ka.jpg

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/7947/alfalah43fi.jpg
That I picked up from another source. That was also missing in the provided link by mas

the last question is geuine. I have to take feed back from MAS

[Nucular]

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/875/alfalah30ka.jpg

That I picked up from another source. That was also missing in the provided link by mas

the last question is geuine. I have to take feed back from MAS
Thanks, that'd be great.

That photo - why did you attempt amateurishly to make it look like a screen grab from a news channel? Was it to make MAS appear as if people in Pakistan might have heard of him?

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Thank you. Is "Dr. MAS" a genuine person's name, a nickname, a business name?

As for i know it is the part of his actual name, nick name, abbreviation of his full name and also family name.

His full name is Dr.. Muhammad Arshad Saleem Mas

MAS is the first name of his actual name
Mas is the part of his name which actually reprsents his family name too
Mas also represent mas.org
Dr. MAS is the name of first homeopathic computer software.

I hope this will help you in understanding what does he actually mean, when he says Dr. MAS. :D

[Mojo]

If a bank is destroyed by fire, the money is not destroyed, at least in most developed nations. An account is merely an entry in a database; so long as there is an entry, the account (ergo, the money) still exists. Banks are very cautious about this sort of thing and invest in backup servers, fire-proof rooms, and keep the information in multiple, isolated places. Then again, that is the developed nation. I'm sure Pakistan has yet to advance beyond abaci and long division.The bank in question has 142 branches and a network of ATMs (http://www.bankalfalah.com/brnet.asp), according to its website, so must have centralised records. Hence Sheikh has had to admit that the money wasn't in it, as the burning down of a single branch would not have lost the money in an individual account.

[Nucular]

Gosh, a question directly answered. Pity it has nothing to do with the matter in hand.

Does MAS always spell his name in pink?
Dr. MAS is the name of first homeopathic computer software.
Are there any ones or zeros present in this software?

[drkitten]

As for i know it is the part of his actual name, nick name, abbreviation of his full name and also family name.

So a letter -- or service of process -- addressed to

Dr.. Muhammad Arshad Saleem Mas
Iqbal Homeopathic Clinic
Near Committee Office
Main Market, Kharian
Pakistan

will reach him, as required for your challenge?

Is there a facsimile number? Transcontinental mail -- especially to the developing world -- can be both slow and unreliable.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Thank you. Is "Dr. MAS" a genuine person's name, a nickname, a business name?

What I am trying to convince you since my registration at this forum that you (all members) cannot hold the situation about Dr. MAS.

When he uses the word Dr. MAS then actually no body knows what does actuall means. The organization also when presents shields then actually the organization present shield to MAS.org or MAS or Mas members.

See

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/5231/ihmashield1vn.jpg

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3546/phdashield3ka.jpg

[Dr. A Sheikh]

So a letter -- or service of process -- addressed to

Dr.. Muhammad Arshad Saleem Mas
Iqbal Homeopathic Clinic
Near Committee Office
Main Market, Kharian
Pakistan

will reach him, as required for your challenge?

Is there a facsimile number? Transcontinental mail -- especially to the developing world -- can be both slow and unreliable.

No the above address is not correct. Write that address which typed earlier. No body knows him with his full name.

[Rolfe]

I'm feeling increasingly sorry for a colleague of mine, a histopathologist, who routinely signs his histopathology reports with his initials. His name is Malcolm Anthony Silkstone. And I get the uncontrollable giggles every time I get a report from him

Rolfe.

[Dr. A Sheikh]

The bank in question has 142 branches and a network of ATMs (http://www.bankalfalah.com/brnet.asp), according to its website, so must have centralised records. Hence Sheikh has had to admit that the money wasn't in it, as the burning down of a single branch would not have lost the money in an individual account.

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/7769/alfalahsheild0pd.jpg

The bank Alfalah also sponsor homeopathy. Look at this shield. Sponosship is written at bottom.

[ClusterBoy]

I am a little bored at work. I just googled "4th National Homoeopathic Seminar" which is on the picture Dr Sheikh sent us.
I found something interesting
here (http://www.otherhealth.com/showthread.php?p=59806)

Dr MAS appears to be the seminars chief organiser? how strange...

[Dr. A Sheikh]

So where's the money?

What I was trying to convince you that a bank is not the real evidence to show of money. The bank alfalah has not connection with the prize money. Neither the money was in the bank. I told you Dr. MAS hold no account in any bank what so ever.

[Hitch]

The bank in question has 142 branches and a network of ATMs (http://www.bankalfalah.com/brnet.asp), according to its website, so must have centralised records. Hence Sheikh has had to admit that the money wasn't in it, as the burning down of a single branch would not have lost the money in an individual account.
Bank Alfalah also offers online banking. So Dr. MAS should have no problem accessing his account, even if the branch "across the street" from his home burned down. (I know Dr. MAS has internet access -- he posts here.) So (and this is not so much a question for Dr. MAS or Dr. A Sheikh - because I doubt they know the answer), how does Dr. MAS go about proving he has any money on deposit with Bank Alfalah? Or, wait, didn't Dr. A Sheikh say, "Dr. MAS does not hold or maintain any bank account neither any paypal or visa system etc?" If so what is the point of posting a picture of Dr. MAS in front of a burned bank in which he had no money?

New question (and this one is for Dr. A Sheikh and/or Dr. MAS): Does the money exist? (Like the molecules?)

[Dr. A Sheikh]

I am a little bored at work. I just googled "4th National Homoeopathic Seminar" which is on the picture Dr Sheikh sent us.
I found something interesting
here (http://www.otherhealth.com/showthread.php?p=59806)

Dr MAS appears to be the seminars chief organiser? how strange...

Thank you for providing the link. http://www.pbase.com/aam

Yes Dr. MAS has arranged un-accountable seminars, symposiums, workshops and medical camps. All were arranged free.

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2346/shieldmas0lj.jpg

When we say Dr. MAS then we do not know who is mas. This you must understand before asking any question.

[Hitch]

What I was trying to convince you that a bank is not the real evidence to show of money. The bank alfalah has not connection with the prize money. Neither the money was in the bank. I told you Dr. MAS hold no account in any bank what so ever.
Why does Dr. MAS pose for pictures in front of a bank in which he has no money? And what is the point of posting those pictures?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3546/phdashield3ka.jpg

Impossible! I won that award!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/ArkanWolfshade/phdashield3ka.jpg

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

..

Yes Dr. MAS has arranged un-accountable seminars, symposiums, workshops and medical camps. All were arranged free.

...

Yes, that is the problem. You are unaccountable for your fraudulent actions.


[note] Bolding mine.

[Hitch]

Dr. MAS organization has offered One Million Dollar prize money.


When we say Dr. MAS then we do not know who is mas. This you must understand before asking any question.

Please explain it so we can ask questions.

If I follow you correctly (which I don't think I'd do even on a dare). Dr. MAS (the individual) does not have the money or a bank account. Dr. MAS (the organization) is offering the prize. Does whoever is offering the prize have the money?

[Dr. A Sheikh]

Bank Alfalah also offers online banking. So Dr. MAS should have no problem accessing his account, even if the branch "across the street" from his home burned down. (I know Dr. MAS has internet access -- he posts here.) So (and this is not so much a question for Dr. MAS or Dr. A Sheikh - because I doubt they know the answer), how does Dr. MAS go about proving he has any money on deposit with Bank Alfalah?

He does not have any account in alfalah.

Or, wait, didn't Dr. A Sheikh say, "Dr. MAS does not hold or maintain any bank account neither any paypal or visa system etc?" If so what is the point of posting a picture of Dr. MAS in front of a burned bank in which he had no money?

Your friend (skeptic) was saying only bank can provide you the evidence that money is existing. My point was no, a bank guranttee or bank statement is not the real evidence. Because if dr.mas was maintaining a bank cash box in alfalah bank that was located infront of his house then it has been burnt now. In that case, the evidence is lost. Fortunately the money was not in that bank. ;)


New question (and this one is for Dr. A Sheikh and/or Dr. MAS): Does the money exist? (Like the molecules?)

Answer to your last question. YES