Psychics and Missing People

[Dr Adequate]

Does Sylvia Brown and others of her class not use cold reading? Are they not frauds?
The impression I get from stage performers claiming to talk to the dead, is that they are very well aware what they are doing, and they talk to people all the time without prior knowledge.
If they used hot reading they would do much better than they do. :rolleyes: Well, I think you just made my point.

If she was a fraud, then she would hot-read, and do much better than she does.

In fact, she's rubbish, she flails around wildly, and her audience believes in her. And so does she.

I'm sure the fatuous preening self-deluding stupid bitch sleeps very well. I suffer from insomnia. What of it?

[Kelly]

It's hard to do. I make fun of everything I can, but psychics in themselves aren't funny. Their particular arguments are often funny, but the thing itself is just disgusting.

THis is why I am torn about it. rjh's joke was not bad, but yet it stung just the same. I do firmly believe in the importance of having a sense of humor in trying times.

I'm also insomniac, so my comment about her sleeping at night was more of a jab at her apparent lack of a conscience than her sleeping habits.

[Kelly]

The San Antonio police ask for psychic's help according to this article:

http://www.woai.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=17173D1D-A3B6-437B-94C6-DB1D9A9CA35F

[prewitt81]

UTSA police followed every lead in their search for Fuentes. Chief Hernandez says they got help from the San Antonio Police Department and even psychics to try to track her down.

The way I read that, it seems like the psychics offered help. Very vague wording there.

[Kelly]

The way I read that, it seems like the psychics offered help. Very vague wording there.

Yes, it was vague, but there was no real purpose in even mentioning it since obviously this is not what solved the case.

[prewitt81]

Agreed.

[Zoinked168]

Why couldn't I find the delete button sooner than elaine's lighting quick reflexes. I ment to post it as a private message...

Just dig myself a hole now...

Although I wanted the post below to be private, I still believe it to be true. So if im banned from this forum because of it, then frankly I'm not bothered.

[elaine]

I am deeply sorry to hear about your son's disappearance. I know you don't want to hear some claimed psychic tell you a bunch pie in the sky for money. I don't have to have any special ability's to sense your frustration and hurt over Jason. I have some experience in locating objects and "scanning" peoples health. I myself was curious about the whereabouts of your son. I know my findings could be either devastating or bring some hope to you and your family. This is such a delicate matter which I'm not totally comfortable with. I so deeply regret to say that I found no trace of Jason's energy on earth. I have checked and re-checked hoping that I could be wrong. You could clarify this for yourself and you do not need any special abilities. But you do need a clear mind with is no easy feat. But if you can, relax and feel your own heartbeat and then picture Jason and what his heart would be doing. Then change your thoughts to your other son's heartbeat and try to see a difference. It takes time but the answer lies within you.
I am so sorry to give this news to a mother, but I feel that your mind will never rest until you find the truth.

Please accept my humblest apologies and I can only hope you don't think me as a fruit. If you do, then I accept that and I understand why and I wish you well in your search.

Deepest Regards Zoe


Unbelievable

[Roadtoad]

I'll give zoinked credit:

1.) No money was requested.

2.) The answer given was honestly offered.

3.) It was a hard one to offer any parent.

I'm hoping Zoinked is wrong. No, I don't want to see this person banned, but maybe, over time, they might realize just what is truly going on in their heart and mind.

An "A" for compassion. Everything else... That's not up to me.

[Kelly]

Zoe,

You will not be banned for claiming "psychic" abilities. What I fail to understand though is why you ignore my request to not come to me with your claims. Assuming you came here through the blog series, (surely you have seen it and read the disclaimer at the bottom of each post, OR you have read enough of this thread to have made this clear.) you know that I do not entertain anything psychics have to say as truth regarding my son.

You sound like a kind, yet misguided person. I don't wish to be unkind to you, but your notion of being able to know whether or not Jason's heart is beating is pure nonsense. (sensing his "energy" as you phrased it)

Every single psychic who has ever approached me tells me he is dead, so you are no different. If you have specific details about his death and disappearance, as with any of the others who now come to me, I encourage you to call our police detectives and share this with with them. I let them decide if there is anything of value to follow up. I guarantee you that they will listen to you, so please don't use that as an excuse not to call them.

Here's the number: 402-444-5647

Why don't you create your own thread to discuss your psychic abilities? If you have confidence in it, you should have no objection to doing that.

Kelly

[Zoinked168]

Firstly, thank-you for not immediately discrediting my honest thoughts. I understand that you require details and hard evidence, even in my shoes I want to see the the real facts for my allegation even though the subject nature is painfully sensitive.

I do not sell myself short in offering services to the public and I am afraid that even if I could prove some abilities, it would be too costly for myself or you Kelly as I would physically have to travel to your location, and it would be a lengthy investigation which I cannot afford to pursue at the moment as I am studying.

At no point did I say I possess psychic abilities, This term is coined too loosely for start and what I do know is that I deal with the manipulation of quantimbioelectromagnetic energy. The discussion of ESP has only recently been brought to light and what I know and practice, I fail to see an exact resemblance to what is known yet to the masses.

So although this probably appears to be a "cop-out" in my resistance to help at this point of time, I do intend to prove my capabilities in other areas than missing people.

This is me sticking my neck out into the world where I have grown tired of skeptics in the past and given up explaining and even demonstrating to. I have nothing to prove but to myself. I hope people will understand that one day.

[Zoinked168]

Further more, I would like to add that I totally support the notion of exposing frauds in the ESP department. They are a disgrace to themselves and the people they effect. So I really don't mind if you try to pick holes through my words because I know I speak the truth and frauds just make my life harder and frustrate me. This is something that fascinates my own mind and I am curious to know and see real results which no one has been proved as yet.

[delphi_ote]

Further more, I would like to add that I totally support the notion of exposing frauds in the ESP department. They are a disgrace to themselves and the people they effect. So I really don't mind if you try to pick holes through my words because I know I speak the truth and frauds just make my life harder and frustrate me. This is something that fascinates my own mind and I am curious to know and see real results which no one has been proved as yet.
So why not win a Million Dollars (http://www.randi.org/research/index.html)?

[Kelly]

Zoe,

You claim paranormal abilities. To be able to know if a person is alive or dead in the manner you suggest is not a normal ability. Pardon me for the psychic label.

I have a few questions for you:

Are you saying that you are not going to discuss this ability on your own thread?

Are you saying that you know nothing more than that Jason is not alive, and that you would not know more than that without coming here?

Do you have any intention of notifying the police, assuming you have details?


If you do not have any more answers and are not willing to discuss your claimed abilities, I do not see much purpose in your having contacted me.

In a nutshell, you said: "Sorry, lady, but your kid is dead."

What value does that hold for me? What value does it hold for any of the members here or the purpose of the thread/forum?

Thank you.

Kelly

[Zoinked168]

delphi_ote...I have looked into applying already. But this is not about the money. This is bigger than the material world...doesn't anyone see that yet?! Besides, this is not a win lose scenario or anything to do with numeric lottery odds.

My intention is be in James Randi's labs making history in regards to ESP. I do have a life too and I have no intentions of being a lab rat for the rest of my life.

[ysabella]

You should read the Challenge guidelines. There is no "lab."

[Zoinked168]

Zoe,

You claim paranormal abilities. To be able to know if a person is alive or dead in the manner you suggest is not a normal ability. Pardon me for the psychic label.

I have a few questions for you:

Are you saying that you are not going to discuss this ability on your own thread?

Are you saying that you know nothing more than that Jason is not alive, and that you would not know more than that without coming here?

Do you have any intention of notifying the police, assuming you have details?


If you do not have any more answers and are not willing to discuss your claimed abilities, I do not see much purpose in your having contacted me.

In a nutshell, you said: "Sorry, lady, but your kid is dead."

What value does that hold for me? What value does it hold for any of the members here or the purpose of the thread/forum?

Thank you.

Kelly

Kelly, Before I can answer your valid questions, I have one for you. What is a "normal ability"? The whole concept behind ESP is that everyone could potentially tap into this unused resource in our brain. This is why I suggest you try it yourself.

I have briefly talked about locating people with my past mentor sometime ago now. I have some rough idea where to start but even with a natural ability, it is useless without a good technique. Everything connected to humans has evolved and improved over time, even thinking and logic for example. It would require a lot of my time to develop this independently. This is one skill out of dozens of known phenomena, and there are still limitless of unknown ones too yet to be developed. If you have looked into energy practices such as Qi-Gong you will notice that the technique has practically not evolved at all since it was established and there is only "one way of doing it", this I believe to be false not to question and improve upon something which dates back thousands of years.

I really hope you can see my view-point on this and see if it makes a little sense.

I hope that once I have established myself as genuine you will take my words more to heart. Until then, take it as you will. I force feed no one. I only ask for everyone and anyone who takes an interest in ESP to experiment for themselves before they apply straight-up knock'em down approach. Perhaps I am naive in my belief's, but regardless I see the practicalities and possible usages for the world we live in today.

I'm off to bed now. I hope that this has partly answered your questions. I will elaborate and answer any more questions you may have when I am able too :)

[delphi_ote]

delphi_ote...I have looked into applying already. But this is not about the money. This is bigger than the material world...doesn't anyone see that yet?! Besides, this is not a win lose scenario or anything to do with numeric lottery odds.

My intention is be in James Randi's labs making history in regards to ESP. I do have a life too and I have no intentions of being a lab rat for the rest of my life.
Take the test and use the money to feed starving children. Prove to the world and all the skeptics once and for all that psychic powers are real. Win the Nobel Prize and feed more starving children. Start a revolution in science and alter the course of history.

One simple test is all it would take.

[elaine]

Why couldn't I find the delete button sooner than elaine's lighting quick reflexes. I ment to post it as a private message...

Just dig myself a hole now...

Although I wanted the post below to be private, I still believe it to be true. So if im banned from this forum because of it, then frankly I'm not bothered.

Fastest keystroke in the west :-).

But honestly Zoinked, I have no doubt that you have the best of intentions. If you really do have this ability, please do apply for the challenge.

[delphi_ote]

I hope that once I have established myself as genuine you will take my words more to heart.
Instead of sitting around here running your mouth, why aren't you filling out the application forms? I'm starting to think you just came here to get attention.

[Zoinked168]

Take the test and use the money to feed starving children. Prove to the world and all the skeptics once and for all that psychic powers are real. Win the Nobel Prize and feed more starving children. Start a revolution in science and alter the course of history.

One simple test is all it would take.

I'll prove that this is the real deal. But feeding starving children for a day isn't going to make a big impact is it? I'd sooner take the money, and live life as I do now, and help solve the bigger problems of the world. But for now, one small step at a time aye?

[Kelly]

Kelly, Before I can answer your valid questions, I have one for you. What is a "normal ability"? The whole concept behind ESP is that everyone could potentially tap into this unused resource in our brain. This is why I suggest you try it yourself.

I have briefly talked about locating people with my past mentor sometime ago now. I have some rough idea where to start but even with a natural ability, it is useless without a good technique. Everything connected to humans has evolved and improved over time, even thinking and logic for example. It would require a lot of my time to develop this independently. This is one skill out of dozens of known phenomena, and there are still limitless of unknown ones too yet to be developed. If you have looked into energy practices such as Qi-Gong you will notice that the technique has practically not evolved at all since it was established and there is only "one way of doing it", this I believe to be false not to question and improve upon something which dates back thousands of years.

I really hope you can see my view-point on this and see if it makes a little sense.

I hope that once I have established myself as genuine you will take my words more to heart. Until then, take it as you will. I force feed no one. I only ask for everyone and anyone who takes an interest in ESP to experiment for themselves before they apply straight-up knock'em down approach. Perhaps I am naive in my belief's, but regardless I see the practicalities and possible usages for the world we live in today.

I'm off to bed now. I hope that this has partly answered your questions. I will elaborate and answer any more questions you may have when I am able too :)

You need to start your own thread with this. You did not answer any of my questions, but instead posed new ones which are off topic for this subject matter. Please be considerate and not hijack this thread with your desired topic.

[Dr Adequate]

This term is coined too loosely for start and what I do know is that I deal with the manipulation of quantimbioelectromagnetic energy. Really? Now my Magical Superpowers are caused by radiotelebiomagnoelectric radiation ... which makes my Magic Superpowers even more scientific than yours.

And, alas, equally undemonstrable.

I have nothing to prove but to myself. I hope people will understand that one day ... This is bigger than the material world...doesn't anyone see that yet?! Since apparently you refuse to demonstrate your supposed powers to the waiting world, it seems no-one's ever going to "see" or "understand" anything.

Put up or shut up.

I have no intentions of being a lab rat for the rest of my life. You should consider it. Muridae is a step up from Mustelidae.

[ysabella]

Dr.Adequate, don't make my avatar come after you. ;)

[meg]

Shame on you zoinked168. Shame on you.

Can we look at what you just did?

You took advantage of a woman's tragedy in order to create a place for you to spout off about your magical ability. Complete with a made up magic word and a refusal to take the paranormal challenge. You are a piece of work alright.

Here's something I dare you to do.

Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, "Did I just tell a woman (who made it very clear that she didn't want to hear from the likes of me) that her kid was dead so that I could feel special and important and get people to talk to me?"

"Did I just go onto a discussion thread that was specifically about how damaging psychics are to the families of the missing, and take their attention away from what they were doing in order to make my own little psychic prediction of the most horrible kind to the family of a missing person?"

For a guy who thinks he can see into other peoples' hearts, I'd say you missed by a mile on that one, kiddo.

I'll second what Dr Adequate said. Put up or shut up.

On a different thread.

[RSLancastr]

kelly, i think the jokes about psychics is a bad idea.

[Helianthus]

Shame on you zoinked168. Shame on you.

Can we look at what you just did?

You took advantage of a woman's tragedy in order to create a place for you to spout off about your magical ability. Complete with a made up magic word and a refusal to take the paranormal challenge. You are a piece of work alright.

Here's something I dare you to do.

Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, "Did I just tell a woman (who made it very clear that she didn't want to hear from the likes of me) that her kid was dead so that I could feel special and important and get people to talk to me?"

"Did I just go onto a discussion thread that was specifically about how damaging psychics are to the families of the missing, and take their attention away from what they were doing in order to make my own little psychic prediction of the most horrible kind to the family of a missing person?"

For a guy who thinks he can see into other peoples' hearts, I'd say you missed by a mile on that one, kiddo.

I'll second what Dr Adequate said. Put up or shut up.

On a different thread.

Hey Zoe,
I'm agreeing with Meg wholeheartedly, in a kind way, on all of this and if you look at my earliest posts you'll know that I have been fully open about being a believer. You appear to be very well meaning but I think you need to examine yourself clearly and take her criticisms as constructive (and kind).

[Kelly]

Hey Zoe,

When you return, please be sure to start your own thread as strongly suggested. I would still like to know the answers to my previous questions.

RL: I'm not going to do a post with psychic jokes. While generic psychic jokes don't bother me, they might bother other people. Not only that, but I do think a post like that would detract from the seriousness of the subject matter. I was at a low when I asked that, but sense is prevailing now.

All: I just love Meg, and especially when she gets riled up. The thing about Meg is, that even though angered, she still is dead on in her reasoning. It's that mom in her.

Kelly

[meg]

Aw.. :o

I love you too, Kelly :)

[delphi_ote]

Shame on you zoinked168. Shame on you.

Can we look at what you just did?

You took advantage of a woman's tragedy in order to create a place for you to spout off about your magical ability. Complete with a made up magic word and a refusal to take the paranormal challenge. You are a piece of work alright.

Here's something I dare you to do.

Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, "Did I just tell a woman (who made it very clear that she didn't want to hear from the likes of me) that her kid was dead so that I could feel special and important and get people to talk to me?"

"Did I just go onto a discussion thread that was specifically about how damaging psychics are to the families of the missing, and take their attention away from what they were doing in order to make my own little psychic prediction of the most horrible kind to the family of a missing person?"

For a guy who thinks he can see into other peoples' hearts, I'd say you missed by a mile on that one, kiddo.

I'll second what Dr Adequate said. Put up or shut up.

On a different thread.
:clap:

[tonyyouens]

I've just put this on my own site but although it's about the UK it might be worth adding it here. After reading about yet another psychic being called in by a family whose son is missing I wrote to the Metropolitan Police and asked if they could confirm the use of psychics. Their reply was interesting...

"Dear Mr Youens

Thank you for your recent enquiry concerning the use of psychics by the police, which has been forwarded to me by our Public Access Office. We have conducted a search of our indexes but have been unable to identify any relevant records relating to any official use of psychics."

They did add...

"There is, however, a historical case where this played a major part."

I've begun looking at this case but early days yet.

Tony Youens

[Kelly]

I've just put this on my own site but although it's about the UK it might be worth adding it here. After reading about yet another psychic being called in by a family whose son is missing I wrote to the Metropolitan Police and asked if they could confirm the use of psychics. Their reply was interesting...

"Dear Mr Youens

Thank you for your recent enquiry concerning the use of psychics by the police, which has been forwarded to me by our Public Access Office. We have conducted a search of our indexes but have been unable to identify any relevant records relating to any official use of psychics."

They did add...

"There is, however, a historical case where this played a major part."

I've begun looking at this case but early days yet.

Tony Youens

Hi Tony,

Thank you for the link.

Let us know what happens with your research on that case. I checked out your summary, and it looks like it's "business as usual" with the psychic claims of aiding police.
(sigh)

Take care,
Kelly

[Kelly]

A comment about the blog series received via email from a woman who does not have a missing person in her life, and who was also neutral on the subject beforehand:

"Kelly I am blown away with your recent postings. I wish this series could post on every site that mentions missing people. Everyone needs to read this series. It is such an important education for those of us who don't know the details of these missing people cases. The pain just jumps off the pages and gets you thinking about the real harm caused by psychics. I never had a clue what the harm was in hearing these people out until I read this series of postings. I can say now that I am outraged by shows that are doing these readings on TV -- it is sick.

I'm sure it was very difficult to post things that brought back your own suffering but bless you for doing it. I've got such insight that I didn't have before. Thank you so much for your postings."

[meg]

Wow. That's awesome, Kelly! Great work on the blog. It looks like you're really reaching people with it.

[John Jackson]

Again this is in the UK, but we've collected responses from police forces here regarding psychics' claims of 'helping the police'.

See: http://www.skeptics.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=57.0

The replies speak for themselves.

[tonyyouens]

That's excellent John. I'll stick in a link to that as well.

Tony

[delphi_ote]

KellyJ, what you're doing here is really just awesome. If the idea hasn't already been put out there, would you consider giving a paper presentation at the next Amazing Meeting? I know you would be fantastic.

If you even visit at the next TAM, you'll receive a hero's welcome (I for one volunteer to carry you through the door of the casino yelling "HUZZAH FOR KELLYJ!")

[Dr Adequate]

That's excellent John. I'll stick in a link to that as well.

TonyAlso linked in Psychic Detectives

Very nice. Are there any Americans who'd like to do something similar?

TY --- Psychic Detectives links to some of your articles --- are there any other relevant ones we've missed?

[tonyyouens]

Okay SkepticWiki link put in as well.

The main links on my site other than Dennis McKenzie and the current commentary are;

The Christine Holohan case which was much debated on the JREF forum at one time.
http://www.tonyyouens.com/ruislip_murder.htm

and a commentary 'The unpleasant world of the psychic detective' at:
http://www.tonyyouens.com/commentary.htm#detectives
which deals with the case of Lisa Dorrian. I was contacted by the psychic in question who thought my tone a little abrasive. I told him he would be of no use and indeed he wasn't.

I think this is a perfect opportunity for us all to work together. A challenge maybe?

Kind regards to all.

Tony

[Kelly]

KellyJ, what you're doing here is really just awesome. If the idea hasn't already been put out there, would you consider giving a paper presentation at the next Amazing Meeting? I know you would be fantastic.

If you even visit at the next TAM, you'll receive a hero's welcome (I for one volunteer to carry you through the door of the casino yelling "HUZZAH FOR KELLYJ!")

Hello Delphi_ote,

Early on in the thread, there is some talk about me attending TAM on a scholarship and giving a report. I believe Luke T. initiated this discussion. I'm not the greatest public speaker, but I would be happy to do this if the foundation wishes.

I hope you are a robust fellow, and have decent medical coverage, as I am not a petite little thing. :)

Your post made me smile. Thank you!

Kelly

[meg]

I think this is a perfect opportunity for us all to work together. A challenge maybe?



I'll help any way I can. What do you have in mind, Tony?

Meg

[tonyyouens]

I'll help any way I can. What do you have in mind, Tony?

To be honest I haven't given it much thought. I was thinking maybe those of us in the UK might be able to offer a join challenge on various websites challenging psychics to come up with evidence that they a) have been asked to assist by the police and b) the information helped solve the crime. I wasn't thinking of offering a cash challenge just asking for some kind of proof.

Anyway something like that - but as I say I haven't really thought about it. Any suggestions?

Tony

[Kelly]

Perhaps we could initiate something from the US via the in progress Psychic Predators site.

Claus? Fowlsound? What say you?

We would need volunteers to track incoming claims. We already have the basis of an online submission form on the site.

[tonyyouens]

We would need volunteers to track incoming claims. We already have the basis of an online submission form on the site.

I doubt that we would get many UK psychics actually contact us but certainly we should be ready to follow up if needed.

I don't know if there's anyone here from the Irish Skeptics Society but they could join in too. Probably it would be a good idea to see a show of hands before we go much further.

I'm in!

[Kelly]

I doubt that we would get many UK psychics actually contact us but certainly we should be ready to follow up if needed.

I don't know if there's anyone here from the Irish Skeptics Society but they could join in too. Probably it would be a good idea to see a show of hands before we go much further.

I'm in!

I doubt that we would get a large number of submissions here either, as they would have to submit:

A) Their true identity and contact info
B) Information about how they assisted with a specific case and the outcome of the information and "help" they provided
AND
C) Contact info for the LE (Law Enforcement) agency, all of which would be verified

[Gr8wight]

I doubt that we would get a large number of submissions here either, as they would have to submit:

A) Their true identity and contact info
B) Information about how they assisted with a specific case and the outcome of the information and "help" they provided
AND
C) Contact info for the LE (Law Enforcement) agency, all of which would be verified

Based on that information requirement, I predict you will be able to count on one hand the number of submissions you will receive over the lifetime of the project.

[Kelly]

Based on that information requirement, I predict you will be able to count on one hand the number of submissions you will receive over the lifetime of the project.

I suppose we could just do C) Contact info for the LE (Law Enforcement) agency, which would be verified.

We could then try to satisfy the question as to whether or not LE requests their help and pays for it, and if in their opinion, the psychics' tips ever solved a crime. We would then have a survey that reflected LE's opinion about the matter.

Adding A and B would give us a more well rounded answer to the question of psychics' abilities to solve cases.

The UK study was done by going directly to LE and asking the question. To survey all LE in the US would be quite a task. I wonder what percentage of LE asked and responses received would suffice to give an accepted result.

[delphi_ote]

Perhaps we could initiate something from the US via the in progress Psychic Predators site.

Claus? Fowlsound? What say you?

We would need volunteers to track incoming claims. We already have the basis of an online submission form on the site.
Fowlsound hasn't had internet for a while. Hopefully he'll be back up and online soon! I just wanted to let you know he wasn't ignoring you.

[RSLancastr]

KellyJ, what you're doing here is really just awesome. If the idea hasn't already been put out there, would you consider giving a paper presentation at the next Amazing Meeting? I know you would be fantastic.Kelly, this is definitely a good idea. And I think that if you have trouble being there financially, there are people here, myself included, who would gladly contribute to your registration.

And I'm glad you changed your mind about the "humor" thing! :)

[Gr8wight]

I wonder what percentage of LE asked and responses received would suffice to give an accepted result.

It wouldn't matter to the psychics. As I found when I queried them, they simply claim that the LE agencies are reticent about admitting to using psychics. They have an excuse for everything.

(edited to add: damn, Kelly, now you've got me using your short forms)

[elaine]

A comment about the blog series received via email from a woman who does not have a missing person in her life, and who was also neutral on the subject beforehand:

"Kelly I am blown away with your recent postings. I wish this series could post on every site that mentions missing people. Everyone needs to read this series. It is such an important education for those of us who don't know the details of these missing people cases. The pain just jumps off the pages and gets you thinking about the real harm caused by psychics. I never had a clue what the harm was in hearing these people out until I read this series of postings. I can say now that I am outraged by shows that are doing these readings on TV -- it is sick.

I'm sure it was very difficult to post things that brought back your own suffering but bless you for doing it. I've got such insight that I didn't have before. Thank you so much for your postings."


One down....

Congratulations Kelly!!

As an aside, I haven't heard from the Denver Post reporter, yet regarding her article on a local medium. I'm hoping it's because she's too busy reading your blog.

[Kelly]

Fowlsound hasn't had internet for a while. Hopefully he'll be back up and online soon! I just wanted to let you know he wasn't ignoring you.

Thank you for letting me know. I noticed he hadn't been around.

Kelly, this is definitely a good idea. And I think that if you have trouble being there financially, there are people here, myself included, who would gladly contribute to your registration.

I don't know much about the scholarship, other than its existence. I would guess we should see what comes of that first. Thank you for your generosity.

It wouldn't matter to the psychics. As I found when I queried them, they simply claim that the LE agencies are reticent about admitting to using psychics. They have an excuse for everything.

(edited to add: damn, Kelly, now you've got me using your short forms)

LOL If I can learn something from you, I would guess you might learn something from me.

Yes, they would have an excuse for everything, but the more we can help the general public understand, isn't that the bottom line? I'm not sure how many psychics will come clean because of education.

[Kelly]

As an aside, I haven't heard from the Denver Post reporter, yet regarding her article on a local medium. I'm hoping it's because she's too busy reading your blog.

Hi Elaine,

Let's hope thats what she's doing! :)

[Kelly]

It's somewhat off topic, but we were featured in an article in the Columbia News Service today. We hope it will be picked up by many newspapers across the country. I am very pleased that Jason's photo is on here so prominently!

http://jscms.jrn.columbia.edu/cns/2006-04-04/lemoult-missingpeople

[Roadtoad]

I would hardly consider that to be off-topic. If anything, it reiterates what we should have been concentrating on all along, except the "psychics" insist on interfering for their own selfish reasons.

Great article, and congrats, Kelly!

[Kelly]

Thanks, RT!

Here's another media outlet giving psychics validity:
http://www.nbc4i.com/news/8474636/detail.html

I wonder if they'll do a follow up to tell us that they were wrong. I doubt it. They even name the psychics.

[Gr8wight]

Thanks, RT!

Here's another media outlet giving psychics validity:
http://www.nbc4i.com/news/8474636/detail.html

I wonder if they'll do a follow up to tell us that they were wrong. I doubt it. They even name the psychics.

I have opened an email correspondence with the reporter who did the story. He basically said that unless the psychics are directly responsible for finding the missing college student, they will not be mentioned again. I outlined my concerns about that, and pointed him to your blog series, Kelly. I'll let you know if anything further comes of it.

[Kelly]

I have opened an email correspondence with the reporter who did the story. He basically said that unless the psychics are directly responsible for finding the missing college student, they will not be mentioned again. I outlined my concerns about that, and pointed him to your blog series, Kelly. I'll let you know if anything further comes of it.

Thank you for contacting him and giving him the blog link. I just don't see the reason for even bringing it up. I hope the reporter will open to understanding what impact this has. I know you did a fine job in acting as a voice of reason amidst this insanity.

[Kelly]

Our own meg is the guest writer on the blog series today.

You can read it here:
http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/04/4706-pmp-amazing-mom-who-knows-things.html

Thank you, meg, for sharing your story and doing a great job in putting a real life slant on things.

Kelly

[Mr. Stick]

I've just read Marie Parker's story about her missing friend Audrey http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/03/33106-pmp-sylvia-and-friends-part-ii.html and I watched the clip with Sylvia Brown. I've never seen her "live" before, but I had a pretty good impression of her voice thanks to Randi's commentaries.
That clip made me sick! :mad:

[elaine]

Our own meg is the guest writer on the blog series today.

You can read it here:
http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/04/4706-pmp-amazing-mom-who-knows-things.html

Thank you, meg, for sharing your story and doing a great job in putting a real life slant on things.

Kelly

Maybe I should do this in a different thread.

I have to say, I'm so glad I found this forum last year. It's great to be able to "rub elbows" with so many articulate, intelligent people, like Meg, Kelly J, Fowlsound, Ed (where is Ed anyway?), Randfan.....you get the idea...too many too mention. It would be easier to name the not so intelligent folks, but I don't need to go there. Anyway, I'm learning alot, and hopefully building my skills for debate.

[Gr8wight]

Thank you for contacting him and giving him the blog link. I just don't see the reason for even bringing it up. I hope the reporter will open to understanding what impact this has. I know you did a fine job in acting as a voice of reason amidst this insanity.

The reason for bringing it up: it attracts viewers, both those who believe and those who don't. I am reminded of a scene from the Howard Stern movie, Private Parts.

Researcher: The average radio listener listens for eighteen minutes. The average Howard Stern fan listens for - are you ready for this? - an hour and twenty minutes.
Pig Vomit: How can that be?
Researcher: Answer most commonly given? "I want to see what he'll say next."
Pig Vomit: Okay, fine. But what about the people who hate Stern?
Researcher: Good point. The average Stern hater listens for two and a half hours a day.
Pig Vomit: But... if they hate him, why do they listen?
Researcher: Most common answer? "I want to see what he'll say next."

[delphi_ote]

Thank you, meg, for sharing your story and doing a great job in putting a real life slant on things.
Wow, meg! Getting feisty. I like it. :D

[Kelly]

I was out most of the day as our family here in town asked me to be with them while America's Most Wanted filmed the story of their missing daughter, Amber Harris. It should air in May.

I have opened an email correspondence with the reporter who did the story. He basically said that unless the psychics are directly responsible for finding the missing college student, they will not be mentioned again. I outlined my concerns about that, and pointed him to your blog series, Kelly. I'll let you know if anything further comes of it.

So much for their word that they would not mention the psychics again. The very next day, they do, and for no real reason that I can see:

http://www.nbc4i.com/news/8512983/detail.html

I've just read Marie Parker's story about her missing friend Audrey http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/03/33106-pmp-sylvia-and-friends-part-ii.html and I watched the clip with Sylvia Brown. I've never seen her "live" before, but I had a pretty good impression of her voice thanks to Randi's commentaries.
That clip made me sick! :mad:

Marie should have, but did not mention that when she asked Sylvia about the flowery hat, it was all made up. Sylvia said yes to the flowery hat, of course.

I have to say, I'm so glad I found this forum last year. It's great to be able to "rub elbows" with so many articulate, intelligent people, like Meg, Fowlsound, Ed (where is Ed anyway?), Randfan.....you get the idea...too many too mention. It would be easier to name the not so intelligent folks, but I don't need to go there. Anyway, I'm learning alot, and hopefully building my skills for debate.

I have no idea who Ed is, but I concur on the rest. This has been a great learning experience.

Delphi, you know the saying: "Hell hath no fury like a woman's scorn." That's our meg. :)

[delphi_ote]

"Hell hath no fury like a woman's mother's scorn." :D

[meg]

Hah! Well, perhaps I am just a scorny mom :) I think that after reading that whole fabulous blog of Kelly's, there might be a lot more scornful, angry, feisty people in the world. I hope so. After reading the previous blog articles, I knew how I was feeling about it, and I guess I just wanted to say, "Are you starting to feel angry? Because, you're not alone, there. I'm feeling really angry about this, too."

I think 'angry' is the appropriate emotional response to those articles.

And I think getting people mad about it is just what I want to do. Angry people write letters to the media. Angry people make phone calls to complain. Angry people boycott stuff. Angry people sue. Angry people make hucksters, scam artists, and charlatans pack up and move on.

I hope every one of Kelly's readers gets really, deeply, completely p*ssed off.


Meg

[meg]

Well, I've written to NBCi now, too. Here's what I sent:



To
Craig Robinson - President and General Manager
Stan Sanders - Vice President, News
Jean Nemeti - Director of Community Relations and Programming

Dear NBC4i News Managers,

I was very upset to read your April 5th story headlined "Psychics Search Apartment of Missing OSU Student." I think if you were concerned with accurately portraying the news, a better headline might have been "Hucksters Con Family of Missing OSU Student" or "Scam Artists Victimize Traumatized Father".

No "psychic" EVER has provided useful information that led to finding a missing person. No "psychic" has ever provided useful information that led to a crime being solved. Your station portraying these con artists as providing some kind of useful service, that might actually help find the missing person, was irresponsible. When a phone scam operator practises his art, do you report "Elderly Citizen has Nice Chat With Man Who Says He's From the Bank"?

I encourage you to get your facts straight. Kelly Jolkowski, mother of missing son Jason Jolkowski (http://www.projectjason.org) has started a blog about these "psychic" predators. I encourage you and your staff to read it. http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/03/30606-pmp-introduction-to-psychics-and.html

The heart wrenching stories there by families of missing people should open your eyes to what these "psychics" are really trying to do, which is take advantage of grieving people for their own personal gain.

Your own reporting on "psychics" searching Brian Shaffer's apartment has just added to the publicity and fame of two of these scammers. I'm sure both of them will now assure people that they've "assisted the police on a missing person's case", and that it was reported on NBC4i, allowing people to assume that means they have been checked out and are the "real deal".

These "psychics" do harm. They take money, energy, and time away from families searching for their missing loved ones. Money, energy and time that is better spent doing the activities that might actually find the missing person. They make up stories and cause untold grief, pain and stress to these families.

I hope you will think twice before reporting about this type of activity again.

Personally, I wish you would do some investigative reporting about these scam artists, and put THAT on your news. Expose these frauds for what they are.

Sincerely


Meg

[Kelly]

Well, I've written to NBCi now, too. Here's what I sent:

Awesome letter, Meg. I await their response. I'm still po'd that they lied, as they told gr8 that they would not mention it again, and then they did the very next day! (See previous posts with links)

Gotta love angry moms when angry for good reason!

[Kelly]

Elaine:

Thanks for posting a blog comment to Jennster. Her comment bothered me, and I wanted to respond to it, but I didn't want to alienate her either. Your comment was perfect.

[elaine]

Thank you.

I just couldn't let the comment go. The commenter does remind me of a very well intentioned friend I used to have. But you know what they say about intentions.....

[Kelly]

For the folks who like to write letters, I have two cases here.

Leslie Adams: family has been suspicious of ex-boyfriend from the beginning. He is now in jail for stalking her, but it sounds like he is not confessing, at least not yet. Psychics were brought in before the boyfriend was jailed. I let the family know about the series, but there was no response. I have not seen any follow-up on this.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/6597944/detail.html

Case #2, Sueann Ray. She is deceased, murdered by her ex-husband, just as the family suspected all along. I know the dog searcher personally, and she told me that they came within a 100 ft (or yards...I can't recall) Psychics come on the scene and claim to have led police to near the location of the body. They're probably doing some retrofitting now. I haven't seen any news follow-ups stating that the psychics did indeed pinpoint the location. The family was not quiet in their belief that the ex-husband did something to Sueann, so this was public knowledge. I believe the Ray family has a large, wooded, acreage, so it's not a surprise that Ray put her there, private property, after all.

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=75340

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=75813

I wonder what the police there have to say about it? Do they admit that the psychic did lead them to near the body vs what the searcher found? Why did the media still give the psychics credibility?

BTW, the only reason the dog searcher had to quit is because it was on private property, and they had been threatened to stay off. They had no choice but to end the search.

[Kelly]

Poetic justice alert!

I just received a call from the Fxxxxxxxx Scholarship folks in Washington, DC. They read yesterday's blog entry about "The Guarantee?" and they are very upset.

They are not upset with me, but with Diego and what he did. At the time, University Police only gave him a slap on the hands, but the Fxxxxxx folks are ticked off and want to take it further. They said his priveliges/Visa could be revoked, depending upon what the university decides to do.

I xxx'd out part of the scholarship name, since they do searches on it daily, and I don't want them poking around. I offered to delete their name from the blog, but they were ok with it staying.

I think they were pretty shocked to have uncovered this. I told them frankly that I thought the U should confiscate his PC and make sure he did not attempt it again or actually scam someone. I hope they do that. I did ask them to let me know what happens.

So, after all this time, perhaps justice will be served.

Thanks for listening.

Just a brief update about this:

I called the woman from the scholarship, as I had not heard from her. She said they passed along all of the info to the university, including the blog entry. Since Diego is no longer on the scholarship, they will not be privy to what the university decides to do about him. She did tell me one very interesting thing though. She said that the woman at the university whom she gave all of the info to, acted as if she wasn't surprised at all, leading her to believe he's done this on more than one occasion.

[Gr8wight]

Awesome letter, Meg. I await their response. I'm still po'd that they lied, as they told gr8 that they would not mention it again, and then they did the very next day! (See previous posts with links)

Gotta love angry moms when angry for good reason!

To be fair, the reporter I communicated with was the one who did the television segment on the psychics. When he said they would not be mentioned again, I'm sure he meant by him, on the television news. I'm sure he has no hand in what appears on the website.


Edited to add: I replied to the reporter in question thusly.
Mr Bowersock
Thank you for your reply. From the point of view of someone who is skeptical of psychics and their alleged abilities, one of the things that bothers me about the way they are seen in the media is exactly what you describe. The general public sees a news article stating that psychics have been employed to help with a missing persons investigation. There is then no further mention of the psychics regardless of the outcome of the case.
The fact is, no psychic has ever provided information leading directly to the recovery of a missing person, alive or dead. Unfortunately, the general public watching your news broadcast never hears that information. They are left with the impression that employing a psychic in this type of investigation is a reasonable thing to do. It is not.
At best, the psychics will have no effect on the case. At worst, they will cause investigators to spend valuable time running down leads that will never pan out. Ask any missing persons expert. Time is one thing that cannot be spared for spurious investigations. The longer a person remains missing, the lower the odds that they will ever be found alive. And the odds go down fast. As a proponent of skepticism and critical thinking, I feel that it is very important for the public to hear that the psychics' assistance never leads to a successful resolution of a missing persons case.
For more information on psychic detectives, and the impact they can have on the lives of families of missing persons I recommend you read the series of blog articles called Psychics and Missing Persons, at the blog Project Jason: Voice For The Missing.
Thank you once again for your response, and for considering my comments.

Paul Little

I have not, to date, received a further reply.

[Kelly]

To be fair, the reporter I communicated with was the one who did the television segment on the psychics. When he said they would not be mentioned again, I'm sure he meant by him, on the television news. I'm sure he has no hand in what appears on the website.


Edited to add: I replied to the reporter in question thusly.


I have not, to date, received a further reply.

Thanks, Paul for the efforts. I know it may not be that reporter's fault that psychics were again mentioned the very next day, but it is clear that station personnel are not communicating about this. My hope is that someone listens enough to bring it to management's attention. Only with their cooperation will we NOT see more of this.

You do an excellent job of communicating and not appearing like the stereotypical cynical skeptic.

[Gr8wight]

You do an excellent job of communicating and not appearing like the stereotypical cynical skeptic.

Thank you, Kelly. It is an illusion I continue to try and cultivate. :)

It's true.

[Kelly]

Thank you, Kelly. It is an illusion I continue to try and cultivate. :)

It's true.

Don't worry...your secret's safe with me.

I noticed that another TV station in the city of the same missing person did a report on him, and they did NOT mention psychics.

It's true. :)

[Kelly]

Here's a cool comment which was left on today's blog story, which is a pretty powerful one, BTW:

"As someone who used to believe in psychics, I can tell you I will never again listen to anything they say."

[RSLancastr]

Always nice to see direct results, isn't it?

Keep it up, I'm sure you'll see more!

[Luke T.]

Hey, I'm back and just as pissed as ever after catching up on my reading in this topic.

Quantimbioelectromagnetism (sic). Holy, holy, holy. Can't even spell it right! Every couple hours since I read that post, I'm spontaneously laughing.

"Quantumbioelectromagentism." BWA-HA-HA-HA! My wife probably was wondering why I was laughing in the shower this morning.

Just posted a note to Jennster. Might be a little harsh. Oh, well. People need a clue. It's time to be a little harsh. Fight back. The older I get, the more I relate to De_Bunk's policy. ;)

I'm babbling.

Anyway, meg gets a big kiss for this:

Well, I've written to NBCi now, too. Here's what I sent:

I was very upset to read your April 5th story headlined "Psychics Search Apartment of Missing OSU Student." I think if you were concerned with accurately portraying the news, a better headline might have been "Hucksters Con Family of Missing OSU Student" or "Scam Artists Victimize Traumatized Father".

No "psychic" EVER has provided useful information that led to finding a missing person. No "psychic" has ever provided useful information that led to a crime being solved. Your station portraying these con artists as providing some kind of useful service, that might actually help find the missing person, was irresponsible. When a phone scam operator practises his art, do you report "Elderly Citizen has Nice Chat With Man Who Says He's From the Bank"?


Meg

Heh. And Meg tells me she doesn't feel as articulate as me. Shoooooot. You win, Meg. You win.

If anybody needs a good swift kick in the crotch, it is the media. Well done!

[Kelly]

Luke! I missed you. I was telling myself last night that If I did not hear from you by this evening, I was going to call out the dogs. Good to see you.

I saw your note to Jennster. Yes, it may have been a bit harsh, but perhaps that what she and other like-minded people need. I was glad that you and Elaine responded to her so I didn't have to be the "bad guy" in this case.

Are you still working on the dialog? This would be a part 2 for Dawn's story, which was posted yesterday.

Readership has been climbing steadily. People are reading and learning.

Thanks for your support.

Kelly

[Luke T.]

Hmm. Was it cabby or meg who said she didn't feel articulate? I forget now. In either case, they both beat "I'm getting a R sound. And I see a body of water and some trees". :D

Luke! I missed you. I was telling myself last night that If I did not hear from you by this evening, I was going to call out the dogs. Good to see you.

I saw your note to Jennster. Yes, it may have been a bit harsh, but perhaps that what she and other like-minded people need. I was glad that you and Elaine responded to her so I didn't have to be the "bad guy" in this case.

Are you still working on the dialog? This would be a part 2 for Dawn's story, which was posted yesterday.

Readership has been climbing steadily. People are reading and learning.

Thanks for your support.

Kelly

Got called out of the country on business. I was not in a situation where I could work on the dialog. And I wasn't sure whether meg needs my help on that or not.

[elaine]

...I saw your note to Jennster. Yes, it may have been a bit harsh, but perhaps that what she and other like-minded people need. I was glad that you and Elaine responded to her so I didn't have to be the "bad guy" in this case.
Kelly

Hey...we gotch yo back :-)

[Kelly]

Tag teaming works great! :)

[meg]

oops. I think I got confused as to who was doing what. Luke, do you want to and have time to work on the dialog? If so, go for it. If you don't, I can probably get to it later in the week.

And a big kiss right back atcha. :)
Meg

[Luke T.]

Okay. I've just read Dawn's story, and re-read the dialog that Dawn gave to Kelly, which was then sent to me.

My blood is now in a state of boiling not often seen this far from the sun. I will do this story with the dialog. It will be my pleasure.

First, I have to calm down.

[Luke T.]

Kelly, since the series is nearing the end, I was wondering if you would also like some along the lines of "closing thoughts" for the conclusion. I have a lot of things on my mind about this subject I would like to put down on paper and send to you.

You ever notice that psychics tend to be dumber than a bag of hammers?

[Kelly]

Okay. I've just read Dawn's story, and re-read the dialog that Dawn gave to Kelly, which was then sent to me.

My blood is now in a state of boiling not often seen this far from the sun. I will do this story with the dialog. It will be my pleasure.

First, I have to calm down.

Multi-quote doesn't seem to be working....

This dialog is from the remote viewing wherein the psychics said Lori was in the cabin. The one psychic then insisted she was right, even though she clearly wasn't. Talk about delusions!

[Kelly]

Kelly, since the series is nearing the end, I was wondering if you would also like some along the lines of "closing thoughts" for the conclusion. I have a lot of things on my mind about this subject I would like to put down on paper and send to you.

You ever notice that psychics tend to be dumber than a bag of hammers?

Could use the bag of hammers to knock some sense into them?

Yes, I would be happy to have some closing comments from you. Because of the nature of my work and my workload, I don't do much ahead of time. Some call that "fly by the seat of your pants". I have an idea of how I want to close it, which involves something one of the "big names" sent me that I thought was quite profound. I'll add my own summary, of course.

I am open to suggestions and another editorial of sorts from contributors.

Thank you.

Kelly

[Kelly]

An online acquantance told me that she heard Carla Baron used to be in soft porn movies before she went psycho, er, psychic. Anyone heard that one?

Dawn (from yesterday's blog story) left a nice comment on the blog. She said:

"RSLancastr,

Your very welcome. My only hope is that people will learn from my mistakes and that possibly these so called psychics will understand the emotional trauma they cause. It’s tremendously difficult to ignore someone who calls you and states that they “know” where your loved one is or what’s happened to them. Psychics use tactics that are cruel and manipulative yet they claim that they only want to help. It is my belief that they only want attention or your money. If a psychic makes contact with you hang up the phone or tell them to solve the crime themselves and then they could REALLY be a hero (and then hang up).

After reading what "Anonymous" wrote I feel it was well worth it."

I think she's lurking here, as she said she was pleased to see the help and support I am receiving from the JREF members.

Hi Dawn!:sewelcome:

[hellaeon]

Thankfully I have not had to deal with this kind of trauma and then on top of that the associated charlatans whom no doubt would have me immensly angry.

Is there a link to Dawns story, I have missed it I think.

[Kelly]

Here's the link to Dawn's story. Get ready to be riled up.

http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/04/41006-pmp-not-one-knew.html

I'm taking Wednesday off the blog. I'm beat. (but not by the scammers!)

[Kelly]

FYI: The psychicpredators.com site should be going up next week sometime, probably more towards the latter part.

[prewitt81]

FYI: The psychicpredators.com site should be going up next week sometime, probably more towards the latter part.

Great news. I'm excited!

[Dr Adequate]

:Dancing_cool:

[Waddauno]

An online acquantance told me that she heard Carla Baron used to be in soft porn movies before she went psycho, er, psychic. Anyone heard that one?



There are two Carla Barons listed in IMDB. There are no biographical details, but you may remember one from such films as "Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-O-Rama," and the other from the TV show "Dead Famous," where she played "Psychic Investigator."

No photo, no other details like I said. I wouldn't be surprised to find it was the same person.

Ain't allowed to post links, so

www . imdb.com /find?s= all&q=carla+baron

[Kelly]

I came across this post from a family member of a missing person. It was on a little-used private board on which I posted the link just in case. I'm glad I did. We've started a dialog now.

"Kelly,Last night I poured through the info that you had offered. I had no more posted something regarding Sylvia Browne,in a positive light, that I started reading what you had offered. While I have just the amount of desperation to entertain the psychic route,I must admit that I felt myself rethinking it all. I was quite impressed with that information.I am not finished with it yet,and I am going to read and print it all,but I would like to thank you. I have some serious thinking to do."

Yay!

W, I'll look at your link in a sec....

[Kelly]

There are two Carla Barons listed in IMDB. There are no biographical details, but you may remember one from such films as "Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-O-Rama," and the other from the TV show "Dead Famous," where she played "Psychic Investigator."

No photo, no other details like I said. I wouldn't be surprised to find it was the same person.

Ain't allowed to post links, so

www.imdb.com/find?s=all&q=carla+baron

The person who told me is pretty reliable as far as info goes. I'm not planning to do anything public with the info, but I would use it if I had to as a trump card if some family member is stuck on using her.

I was just curious iof anyone else had heard that.

Thanks for the look-up!

[meg]

You're doing it, Kelly. You are making a difference. YAY!!!!!!

:)

[delphi_ote]

I came across this post from a family member of a missing person. It was on a little-used private board on which I posted the link just in case. I'm glad I did. We've started a dialog now.

"Kelly,Last night I poured through the info that you had offered. I had no more posted something regarding Sylvia Browne,in a positive light, that I started reading what you had offered. While I have just the amount of desperation to entertain the psychic route,I must admit that I felt myself rethinking it all. I was quite impressed with that information.I am not finished with it yet,and I am going to read and print it all,but I would like to thank you. I have some serious thinking to do."

Yay!

W, I'll look at your link in a sec....
I can't believe how much you've accomplished in such a short time, Kelly! Every time I stop by this thread, you and the others have in some way changed the real world for the better. I wish I could do more than cheerlead, but dammit I'll cheerlead my butt off!

You should be proud. You're routing the vultures! :bananalama:

[rjh01]

This is one of the longer serious threads I have read. No serious derailments or the like. I think KellyJ needs to get an award or some such thing for this thread and the other things she has done.

Well she can have a big pat on the back from me.

[chillzero]

This is one of the longer serious threads I have read. No serious derailments or the like. I think KellyJ needs to get an award or some such thing for this thread and the other things she has done.

Well she can have a big pat on the back from me.

I second that - big round of applause for Kelly.

[ChristineR]

The "Carla Baron" on Dead Famous and Fear is the "psychic." She lists it on her website. It may or may not be the "Carla Baron" in Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-a-rama. I've seen that movie--pretty forgettable, but it does have its share of unclad female bodies. If anyone cares to watch it, it's fairly easy to find.

Does anyone think one of these (http://www.badmovies.org/movies/slimebowl/slimebowl1.jpg)women is Carla Baron? I'm pretty sure the actress in front is "Carla Baron."

If so, embarassing pictures of her are as close as your local video store.

[Luke T.]

The "Carla Baron" on Dead Famous and Fear is the "psychic." She lists it on her website. It may or may not be the "Carla Baron" in Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-a-rama. I've seen that movie--pretty forgettable, but it does have its share of unclad female bodies. If anyone cares to watch it, it's fairly easy to find.

Does anyone think one of these (http://www.badmovies.org/movies/slimebowl/slimebowl1.jpg)women is Carla Baron? I'm pretty sure the actress in front is "Carla Baron."

If so, embarassing pictures of her are as close as your local video store.

This site (http://www.iigwest.com/carla_report.html) has a photo of the psychic Carla Baron.

Here is a video montage (http://www.chrono.org/carla/carlabaron20m.wmv) of psychic Carla Baron. In one portion, she channels Jim Morrison!

There does appear to be a resemblance to the soft porn actress.

[ChristineR]

Another image of scream-queen Carla Baron:

This is from an adult site. The image is an inoffensive head shot.

http://www.mrskin.com/data/star/00/36/67/biopic2_25610.jpg

Well, the eighties hair and make up are kind of offensive, but the image has no nudity.

[Luke T.]

Forum rules prevent me from writing what I imagine a psychic reading on the set of a porn movie would be like.

Only a predator psychic could make a job in the porn industry look respectable.

[Kiless]

Gosh, you could make a great skeptical porn that makes fun of psychics.

'Yes, I see a big development in your future....ooooooo yeahh.....' :D

[tsg]

I'm not trying to start a fight. Just my $0.02 and I'll shut up about it.

Whether or not Carla Baron used to be a soft-core porn star really shouldn't be an issue. It's no more than poisoning the well. While the morality of acting in adult films may be an issue for some, the focus should be on her actions as a psychic. Refute her claims of having "helped find" missing people because that's what's important. "Oh yeah, and she used to be a porn star" is just petty, in my opinion, and says nothing one way or the other about her abilities to find people. I'm not defending her as a psychic, mind you, but if the point is that psychics do more harm than good, then let's focus on the psychic aspect and less on previous work histories that don't have anything to do with it.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox. Rant over.

[elaine]

Great job Kelly, on making a difference!

[ChristineR]

Interestingly, her career hasn't really changed much. Before she was making sleazy B-movies with supernatural themes. Now she's making sleazy "based on a true story" movies with supernatural themes. I haven't seen Dead Famous or Fear but apparently she was playing a fictional psychic who happened to be just like "real" psychic Carla Baron. Now if in younger days she showed more skin, that doesn't bother me. She started getting jobs in a genre (B-horror) that pretty demands it, and eventually the clothes came off. I wonder if she thought it was a natural transtition from the pretty girl who gets butchered in the third act to the mysterious, somewhat more mature but still attractive, psychic who warns the pretty girl (and gets butchered for her good intentions)--and at some point, decided to play the part in real life.

She has apparently had more success acting for desperate people than she did acting for late night movie audiences.

All this assumes it really is the same woman, of course.

[Roadtoad]

TSG has made a valid point. We could go on and on about Carla Baron's past in porn, whether it's true or not, but the reality is that the Carla Baron we need to be discussing is the one who's subjecting people searching for missing loved ones to emotional blackmail.

Enough is enough.

[Kelly]

I don't really care if Baron was a soft porn star or not. My level of respect for her was at the bottom before, so it can't go any lower. As mentioned, I would only use this info as a very last resort for a family who was considering using her "services". There are some Christians who would ignore that the bible clearly states we are not to delve into this type of thing our of desperation. They may not be able to ignore that, coupled with what they would most likely deem as a huge morals issue. They would not want to associate with someone who did that for a living.

Who knows, I may never have to use it, but I did want to have it checked out for the record. I only have one family I assist right now who recently worked with her. I emailed them a couple of months ago, asking about the outcome, and they did not respond. Since they already have her guesses in hand, there is no reason to discuss anything else. At some point in time, I will ask them again about the outcome.

Just as an FYI for me, I'll check out all the links provided this evening when I am at home.

Thank you for all the kind words and support, everyone. It really means alot to me.

Since Delphi Ote is our cheerleader, I vote to have him wear a skirt and ponytails. Wouldn't we all like to see that? ;)

[Gr8wight]

tsg is 100% correct. Pointing out Carla Baron's alleged previous work in soft core porn films is one of two things. If correct, it is an ad hominem attack, and has no bearing on her current career activities. If incorrect, and there is another Carla Baron, it is potentially slander. I would avoid mentioning it to anyone for any reason.

[ChristineR]

Ah, but if it is the same woman, it does have bearing on her current career activities. Not the nudity, but she is still acting in the supernatural genre. She is using her acting talents to advertise herself as a psychic, and vice versa.

[Luke T.]

Okay, Kelly. I have written an article about the dialogue between Dawn and the psychics. Emailed to you.

I looked up some stuff on the murder of her friend which I put in the article, but I will need Dawn to verify I got the facts straight.

Thanks!

[Kelly]

Okay, Kelly. I have written an article about the dialogue between Dawn and the psychics. Emailed to you.

I looked up some stuff on the murder of her friend which I put in the article, but I will need Dawn to verify I got the facts straight.

Thanks!

The email is on its way to Dawn to proof. Thanks, Luke T. Your writings are superb, as always.

[Jon.]

I don't know if this has been mentioned on the forum yet or not, but here in Vancouver a young fellow (Graham McMynn) was kidnapped a couple of weeks ago. He was found, confined by his kidnappers but safe and not very badly hurt, by the police yesterday. AFAIK, no psychics were involved.:)

[Kelly]

I don't know if this has been mentioned on the forum yet or not, but here in Vancouver a young fellow (Graham McMynn) was kidnapped a couple of weeks ago. He was found, confined by his kidnappers but safe and not very badly hurt, by the police yesterday. AFAIK, no psychics were involved.:)

Amazing on both counts:

No Psychics

He wasn't killed

I don't hear as much about the Canadian cases since we just work in the US, but there are so many that it's impossible to know about all of them.

[RSLancastr]

FYI: The psychicpredators.com site should be going up next week sometime, probably more towards the latter part.

That's great news! I look forward to seeing it.

I came across this post from a family member of a missing person. It was on a little-used private board on which I posted the link just in case. I'm glad I did. We've started a dialog now.You continue to make a difference in people's lives, Kelly. Bravo!

[RSLancastr]

Yes, whether Carla Baron was a porn actress or not, it has no bearing on her "psychic abilities."

It's like the people who keep going on about John Edward's career as a ballroom dance instructor - so what? Is there some sort of "acceptable" career path for a psychic?

As has already been said, it is, at best, an ad hominem attack.

Kelly, if you wish to save this (assuming it is true) as a "last card" to use with families who would be offended by such a career choice, that's obviously your call. Just know that it has no skeptical/logical basis as a criticism.

[Mr. Stick]

I came across this post from a family member of a missing person. It was on a little-used private board on which I posted the link just in case. I'm glad I did. We've started a dialog now.

FYI: The psychicpredators.com site should be going up next week sometime, probably more towards the latter part.
:wave1
Congratulations, this is great news.:)

[Mr. Stick]

I'm not trying to start a fight. Just my $0.02 and I'll shut up about it.

Whether or not Carla Baron used to be a soft-core porn star really shouldn't be an issue. It's no more than poisoning the well. While the morality of acting in adult films may be an issue for some, the focus should be on her actions as a psychic. Refute her claims of having "helped find" missing people because that's what's important. "Oh yeah, and she used to be a porn star" is just petty, in my opinion, and says nothing one way or the other about her abilities to find people. I'm not defending her as a psychic, mind you, but if the point is that psychics do more harm than good, then let's focus on the psychic aspect and less on previous work histories that don't have anything to do with it.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox. Rant over.
I second that. I can see how it could be an issue for some, especially in the US, but it's not really relevant. In some other countries it would never be an issue of interest. In my country we have a politician who participated in a number of porn (not soft-core, I can tell you!) movies in the seventies. She is now a member of both the Copenhagen city council and the national parliament, and though someone tried to use her former career to slander her at the last election, nobody really gave a damn.

[Kelly]

As has already been said, it is, at best, an ad hominem attack.

Kelly, if you wish to save this (assuming it is true) as a "last card" to use with families who would be offended by such a career choice, that's obviously your call. Just know that it has no skeptical/logical basis as a criticism.

I want to retire this issue after explaining the possible effect on a family member who has a certain Christian mindset.

Note to self: Don't post on this thread when low emotionally. It tends to reflect a lack of good judgement. Example: The jokes on the blog idea. :o

I don't really care if Baron was a soft porn star or not. My level of respect for her was at the bottom before, so it can't go any lower. As mentioned, I would only use this info as a very last resort for a family who was considering using her "services". There are some Christians who would ignore that the bible clearly states we are not to delve into this type of thing our of desperation. They may not be able to ignore that, coupled with what they would most likely deem as a huge morals issue. They would not want to associate with someone who did that for a living.

If any of you read the 1st story that mentioned SBrowne, you may have wondered what relevance the following has:

"Thousands upon thousands are taken in by her deceptions. They buy her books, and they pay her for readings. They even pay $250 to join her "Christian church", which is an abomination to real Christianity, claiming that God is a woman who created God the man, reincarnation is real, there is no such thing as sin or hell, and Jesus ran off to France with Mary Magdelene, having never died on the cross."

A person who is Christian should be able to read the above statement and see that Browne's "church" is not Christian at all, as she claims. None of the above bolded statements has relevance in Christian theology. It's simply Browne's made up religion. A learned Christian would see this as fraudulent. So, even if they chose to ignore the warnings not to delve into things paranormal, they might not be able to also ignore this claim. The two negatives may be enough for them to make the decision not to have anything to do with Browne.

Although it is not the same scenario as the Baron soft porn issue, Christians may have a hard time ignoring this. (See my quoted material above)

I doubt that it will come to pass that I feel the need to use that as a trump card with a family, especially if I do not know for sure it was the same woman. If I don't know for sure, I will not use it. It would not be professional to do so.

Thank you for all your comments/words of wisdom on that issue. I hope this makes sense. It's getting late and I'm running out of steam.

[RSLancastr]

If any of you read the 1st story that mentioned SBrowne, you may have wondered what relevance the following has:

"Thousands upon thousands are taken in by her deceptions. They buy her books, and they pay her for readings. They even pay $250 to join her "Christian church", which is an abomination to real Christianity...Yes, if I do end up putting together a StopKaz-style site about Browne, it will include a (small) section which examines her theology.

I will also include a section about her criminal conviction on investment fraud. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_browne#Criminal_conviction)

Neither of these things has any direct bearing on whether or not she really is psychic, but they do, as they say, "go to character," and might help in convincing some people that she is not legit.

So I understand your looking into the possible use of Carla's "acting resume'". I just wanted to make sure you weren't thinking of saying or implying something along the lines of "she was in porn, so how could she be psychic?"

Issue retired. :)

[Dr Adequate]

A person who is Christian should be able to read the above statement and see that Browne's "church" is not Christian at all, as she claims. None of the above bolded statements has relevance in Christian theology. It's simply Browne's made up religion. A learned Christian would see this as fraudulent. Well actually you don't have to be St Augustine to see a few problems with this.

It's not one of the subtler doctrinal errors, is it?

Now I'm not one for religious orthodoxy, as you know, and if the woman merely had, say, tendencies towards semi-Pelagianism, then we might cut her a little slack.

Barking lunacy, on the other hand, is fair game. Indeed, you might focus less on the heretical nature of her remarks and more on the fact that they show her to be OUT OF HER FREAKIN' TREE.

The origin of this nonsense is one Laurence Gardner, who wrote an incredibly stupid book called Bloodline of the Holy Grail.

His website (http://www.graal.co.uk/bloodlinelecture.html)

So much bogus scholarship ... arrgh ... the word "Messiah" means "crocodlie fat" ... the word "Grail" is Mesopotamian for "the nectar of supreme excellence" ...

And how did I know the Knights Templar would be involved in all this?

BECAUSE THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR ARE BEHIND EVERYTHING!

THEY'VE BEEN SECRETLY RUNNING THE WORLD EVER SINCE PHILIP THE FAIR HAD THEM BURNT AT THE STAKE IN 1314! BEING LITTLE HEAPS OF ASH IS ALL PART OF THE PLAN!

*****' idiot. If you guys ever want to burn him at the stake, I'll bring marshmallows.

[Dr Adequate]

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9231/kt5jw.jpg

[delphi_ote]

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9231/kt5jw.jpg
:dl:

[elaine]

That is funny Dr. A.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program...

Good job on today's entry, Luke T (but that goes without saying)

[Kelly]

Now I'm not one for religious orthodoxy, as you know, and if the woman merely had, say, tendencies towards semi-Pelagianism, then we might cut her a little slack.

Barking lunacy, on the other hand, is fair game. Indeed, you might focus less on the heretical nature of her remarks and more on the fact that they show her to be OUT OF HER FREAKIN' TREE.

The origin of this nonsense is one Laurence Gardner, who wrote an incredibly stupid book called Bloodline of the Holy Grail.

His website (http://www.graal.co.uk/bloodlinelecture.html)



So she stole it all from someone else? I should have known. Of course it would make sense as various heresies have come and gone throughout the ages, and some having stuck around, too.

It also reeks of the DaVinci Code to some extent. Yes, it's plain nuts.

Neither of these things has any direct bearing on whether or not she really is psychic, but they do, as they say, "go to character," and might help in convincing some people that she is not legit.

So I understand your looking into the possible use of Carla's "acting resume'". I just wanted to make sure you weren't thinking of saying or implying something along the lines of "she was in porn, so how could she be psychic?"

Issue retired. :)

That's right. Just as there is no connection between Browne's religious beliefs and her psychic "powers", there is no connection between Baron's claimed abilities and her past.

As Elaine mentioned, be sure to check out Luke's entry on the blog today, and the transcript of Dawn and the psychics.

[RSLancastr]

As Elaine mentioned, be sure to check out Luke's entry on the blog today, and the transcript of Dawn and the psychics. I read as much of the transcript as I could stomach in one sitting.

I kept picturing them as a couple of teenage "Valley Girls."

[Luke T.]

I read as much of the transcript as I could stomach in one sitting.

I kept picturing them as a couple of teenage "Valley Girls."

When you read the transcript and imagine what it sounds like from the perspective of a believer who is missing a loved one, you can just imagine how chilling it must have sounded to hear that your loved one is tied up in an attic and the descriptions of her captors, and how the captors could see the remote viewing psychics and were glaring at them, and how the victim could see them. You can imagine how coldly, terrifyingly riveting it would be to an emotionally vulnerable person. And the pressure they would feel to rescue their loved one from the situation.

Bloodsucking vampires, these psychics.

[elaine]

When you read the transcript and imagine what it sounds like from the perspective of a believer who is missing a loved one, you can just imagine how chilling it must have sounded to hear that your loved one is tied up in an attic and the descriptions of her captors, and how the captors could see the remote viewing psychics and were glaring at them, and how the victim could see them. You can imagine how coldly, terrifyingly riveting it would be to an emotionally vulnerable person. And the pressure they would feel to rescue their loved one from the situation.

Bloodsucking vampires, these psychics.

My roommate despises psychics. I thought about referring him to Kelly's blog, but I'm afraid his head would explode, and then I'd be stuck paying the mortgage by myself.

[Kelly]

I read as much of the transcript as I could stomach in one sitting.

I kept picturing them as a couple of teenage "Valley Girls."

Robert, you asked if we know how old these psychics are, and Dawn responded. She does not know how old Linda and Belle are, having never met them.

Kittiie, aka Tracy, is single, 37, lives in Syracuse, NY, has 3 children and 2 grandchildren. Her Yahoo profile states she is raising all of them.

[RSLancastr]

Robert, you asked if we know how old these psychics are, and Dawn responded. She does not know how old Linda and Belle are, having never met them.

Kittiie, aka Tracy, is single, 37, lives in Syracuse, NY, has 3 children and 2 grandchildren. Her Yahoo profile states she is raising all of them.All three of them seem to be in their teens, emotionally.

Edited to add: two grandchildren at 37? Yikes.

[Roadtoad]

Bloodsucking vampires, these psychics.

Hey, hey, HEY! No slandering Vampires around here, dammit!

[Kelly]

Anyone want to register in another forum and (gently) challenge the "resident" psychic? He's always spouting off ridiculous stuff about his dreams and more.

I have a relationship with the forum owner, so it would be better coming from someone unknown/unrelated to me.

His name is "Rocky" and you can find him on this thread:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37076

Unfortunately, the subforum where this is posted is private. Only registered members can see it. This is what he said on this post:

"if any of you had a clue how real the images are...

the problem is, when you get a vision, is finding a way to make sense of it.

I told law enforcement the kids were in Montana...

they said I said I was friggen crazy and hung up the phone.

When news came out they were in Montana the whole time, all I could do is sigh, but for the bonehead at the FBI that slammed the phone in my ear...

you should have listened....

If you would have listened, both children would have been found alive."

Yeh, right, Rocky. Montana is a huge state.

Edited to add a thread in which Rocky was dead wrong, but never came back to admit it:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17704&page=4&pp=25&highlight=rocky

[elaine]

I thought about it, but I'm better at playing bad cop. Tact, not my gift.

[meg]

Anyone want to register in another forum and (gently) challenge the "resident" psychic? He's always spouting off ridiculous stuff about his dreams and more.

I have a relationship with the forum owner, so it would be better coming from someone unknown/unrelated to me.

His name is "Rocky" and you can find him on this thread:...



Well, I tried, Kelly. But my registration "did not meet our membership requirements", so it was deleted. I've written to ask why.

Meg

[Kelly]

Thanks for trying. Let me know if they respond to you and what they have to say.

[Kelly]

I'm getting a few blog hits from this forum. Does anyone know anything about them? Thanks.

http://badpsychic.proboards53.com/index.cgi

[ImaginalDisc]

I'm getting a few blog hits from this forum. Does anyone know anything about them? Thanks.

http://badpsychic.proboards53.com/index.cgi

Dang, it won't me register with a free email.

Oh, I meant the other forum.

[Katachresis]

Anyone want to register in another forum ...

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37076 ...

...Unfortunately, the subforum where this is posted is private. Only ...

...Edited to add a thread in which Rocky was dead wrong, but never came back to admit it:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17704&page=4&pp=25&highlight=rocky

OK, I'm in.

I'll see what I can find, and let you know what happens.

[Kelly]

I see you. Have fun in there. Thanks.

[Katachresis]

It looks like a fundraising scam from what I see (from his website):

"On the news last night....
We are continuously expanding our system, but for us to finish doing it right would cost millions. It costs us anywhere from $5K-$50K to install each probe depending on the amount of traffic going through the site, a lot of larger companies have paid to install their own probes.
I've spent a lot of time over the last 3 1/2 years (since my daughter's best friend was kidnapped and killed by a pedovile) trying to make the world a safer place for our children. I fought for the amber alert, and the online databases, and have spent thousands of hours over the last few years helping to design and develop a protection system for the internet. But, I am quite thankful for all the geniuses that volunteered their time in helping put it all together, they are in place to run the operation.
My concentration is changing to fundraising at this point, but I have no experience in raising money for an operation of this caliber and would love to hear from anyone willing to help...(email address here)
Project ORN where the predators, become the hunted...
ORN - Offender Registration Network"


ETA: OH, and I forgot:

"Project ORN DONATION $100
Quantity:"

[Kelly]

It looks like a fundraising scam from what I see (from his website):

"On the news last night....
We are continuously expanding our system, but for us to finish doing it right would cost millions. It costs us anywhere from $5K-$50K to install each probe depending on the amount of traffic going through the site, a lot of larger companies have paid to install their own probes.
I've spent a lot of time over the last 3 1/2 years (since my daughter's best friend was kidnapped and killed by a pedovile) trying to make the world a safer place for our children. I fought for the amber alert, and the online databases, and have spent thousands of hours over the last few years helping to design and develop a protection system for the internet. But, I am quite thankful for all the geniuses that volunteered their time in helping put it all together, they are in place to run the operation.
My concentration is changing to fundraising at this point, but I have no experience in raising money for an operation of this caliber and would love to hear from anyone willing to help...(email address here)
Project ORN where the predators, become the hunted...
ORN - Offender Registration Network"


ETA: OH, and I forgot:

"Project ORN DONATION $100
Quantity:"

I saw that, too, but I don't think that has anything to do with his claimed psychic abilities. He never mentions this on that forum that I have noticed. It may be time comsuming to find each thread where he mentions his visions, etc, other than the vague one I posted. He never does explain that, not is it explained anywhere else.

Thanks.

[rjh01]

Something strange. Click on 'main page' (top right hand corner) and it goes to http://www.randi.org/ .

No joke.

[John Jackson]

I'm getting a few blog hits from this forum. Does anyone know anything about them? Thanks.

http://badpsychic.proboards53.com/index.cgi

Yes, Kelly.

It's another UK skeptically orientated site/forum. The project is going to be relaunched shortly with a new name and new look which is why it's currently only readable by members.

It should be open in the not too distant future.

John

[chillzero]

It looks like a fundraising scam from what I see (from his website):
My concentration is changing to fundraising at this point, but I have no experience in raising money for an operation of this caliber and would love to hear from anyone willing to help...(email address here)
Project ORN where the predators, become the hunted...
ORN - Offender Registration Network"

ETA: OH, and I forgot:

"Project ORN DONATION $100
Quantity:"

Project ORN -
Umm... Donation showing on your credit card from "P.O.R.N."??

[Katachresis]

I tried to get in to the site today, but I got this in my email this morning:

Dear K*****,
Unfortunately your registration at Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community did not meet our membership requirements. Therefore your registration was deleted.
Sorry,
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community team

I didn't even have time to post anything.

[meg]

Yup. That's the same message I got, Katachresis. Well, at least now I won't take it so personally.

Meg

[Kelly]

Yes, Kelly.

It's another UK skeptically orientated site/forum. The project is going to be relaunched shortly with a new name and new look which is why it's currently only readable by members.

It should be open in the not too distant future.

John

THanks, John. I just wanted to check that it was an ok site as they were linking to me.

Something strange. Click on 'main page' (top right hand corner) and it goes to http://www.randi.org/ .

No joke.

When you click on what main page, please?

[Kelly]

Yup. That's the same message I got, Katachresis. Well, at least now I won't take it so personally.

Meg

Did you both use web based email addy's. That's probably why.

I agree that Project ORN, shortened to PORN is odd. Why someone would choose a name that could be abbreviated as such is beyond me.

[CptColumbo]

I remember during the Jacob Wetterling case, here in MN, that one of the local stations asked a psychic to do a reading. She predicted he would be near water. We're "the Land of 10,000 Lakes," that ain't to big a prediction.

I think it was WCCO, but I'm sure the Wetterling Foundation can give you more info. I haven't paid much attention to the case since then, but I think he was never found.

[Kelly]

I remember during the Jacob Wetterling case, here in MN, that one of the local stations asked a psychic to do a reading. She predicted he would be near water. We're "the Land of 10,000 Lakes," that ain't to big a prediction.

I think it was WCCO, but I'm sure the Wetterling Foundation can give you more info. I haven't paid much attention to the case since then, but I think he was never found.

He was never found. Last year, there was a young man who was thought to be Jacob. They wanted him to do a DNA test, but he never would. I believe in the end they do not think was him, but I am not sure. I know Patty through a volunteer org called TEAM Hope. I should ask her.

Thanks.

[meg]

Hi Kelly,

No, I used a real email address. Went through the registration, they verified my email, and clicked the link, etc. I was just waiting for the final approval by an administration type for my registration to be complete when I received an email like Katachresis.

I did not, however, fill out anything in the "who referred you" line. Perhaps they only take people who are friends of present members or something?

Meg

[RSLancastr]

Kelly, I'm not sure what to say about today's blog entry (by RebKah Howard).

It's almost pro-psychic, just saying that some psychics aren't reputable, and that some are "gifted but vague."

On the whole, I think the article would leave someone with the impression that psychic detectives are still helpful, they just didn't help in this one case.

[rjh01]

When you click on what main page, please?

I am talking about the 'bad psychics' website. It has 'welcome to badpsychics' in the top middle of the page. On the left of that are the words 'main page'. Click on that and it goes to the JREF page.

I also found where the reference to your site is.

[Kelly]

Kelly, I'm not sure what to say about today's blog entry (by RebKah Howard).

It's almost pro-psychic, just saying that some psychics aren't reputable, and that some are "gifted but vague."

On the whole, I think the article would leave someone with the impression that psychic detectives are still helpful, they just didn't help in this one case.

I was never quite comfortable with her entry. I left it as is because I provided supporting links that are certainly not pro-Renier. Even as I posted it, I still didn't feel right about it. I went back and edited it. Rebkah will understand as I made it clear that I didn't want it to be encouraging. In the light of day, and under the microscope of others, it was too soft.

I think it now still doesn't take away from her softer approach, but leaves out the encouraging statements.

Thank you.

[Kelly]

Hi Kelly,

No, I used a real email address. Went through the registration, they verified my email, and clicked the link, etc. I was just waiting for the final approval by an administration type for my registration to be complete when I received an email like Katachresis.

I did not, however, fill out anything in the "who referred you" line. Perhaps they only take people who are friends of present members or something?

Meg

I'm not sure. That doesn't seem fair to exclude someone because they were not referred.

In the scheme of things, I suppose Rocky is no big hitter. He just annoys the heck out of me, and contributes to the level of woo over there.

Personally, I'd rather do a proverbial smack on the noggin to that creep in Canada who says he can pinpoint a missing child anywhere in 2 seconds flat.

Thanks for trying, both of you.

[Gr8wight]

I'm not sure. That doesn't seem fair to exclude someone because they were not referred.

In the scheme of things, I suppose Rocky is no big hitter. He just annoys the heck out of me, and contributes to the level of woo over there.

Personally, I'd rather do a proverbial smack on the noggin to that creep in Canada who says he can pinpoint a missing child anywhere in 2 seconds flat.

Thanks for trying, both of you.

They may have checked the referral stats of their website to see where the originating link that led you to them came from. Maybe someone should try signing up without using the link from here to click through to them. Copy and paste the link into the address bar of a newly opened browser window and see what happens.

[Kiless]

They may have checked the referral stats of their website to see where the originating link that led you to them came from. Maybe someone should try signing up without using the link from here to click through to them. Copy and paste the link into the address bar of a newly opened browser window and see what happens.

Or perhaps use http://www.the-cloak.com/anonymous-surfing-home.html ?

[Kiless]

Ah, just occured, perhaps they're keeping an eye on this thread due to the referral stats?

[Kiless]

Would contacting Tricia Griffith and being up-front about the concerns regarding psychic predators be useful? I noted an email address on the top of the http://www.websleuths.com/ site. If you say that you're not there to troll or anything nasty, it may help.

[Kiless]

Yes, Kelly.

It's another UK skeptically orientated site/forum. The project is going to be relaunched shortly with a new name and new look which is why it's currently only readable by members.

It should be open in the not too distant future.

John

Might want to get the JREF forum to add them to the Links. :)

[Kelly]

I had never heard of a forum being able to tell where a prospective member clicked in from, but I believe it!

I know Tricia personally, and she knows I am doing the series and supports it. However, my preference was to be anonymous in a sense when trying to do a little "woo prevention" over there. It might be claimed I am biased, hence the new members who try to win over believers with logic.

Thanks for the info......I learned something new today.

[Kiless]

I know Tricia personally, and she knows I am doing the series and supports it. However, my preference was to be anonymous in a sense when trying to do a little "woo prevention" over there. It might be claimed I am biased, hence the new members who try to win over believers with logic.

Thanks for the info......I learned something new today.

Yeah, as you said, you know her personally. But it might help if people here contacted her, said that they were (and are!) genuinely interested in contributing to the forum (just as they are genuinely interested in contributing to helping with missing people in general) and will behave themselves instead of gung-ho 'debunking' attitudes. In fact, it'd be interesting to see what tactics are used and perhaps use that as the basis of essays and responses here. Sort of a devil's advocate thing.

And if people are going to end up looking over here, it's best not to look like maroons who are just going to charge in and create flamewars.

And hello to anyone from that forum who are wondering where people are coming from! :)

[Kelly]

Yeah, as you said, you know her personally. But it might help if people here contacted her, said that they were (and are!) genuinely interested in contributing to the forum (just as they are genuinely interested in contributing to helping with missing people in general) and will behave themselves instead of gung-ho 'debunking' attitudes. In fact, it'd be interesting to see what tactics are used and perhaps use that as the basis of essays and responses here. Sort of a devil's advocate thing.

And if people are going to end up looking over here, it's best not to look like maroons who are just going to charge in and create flamewars.

And hello to anyone from that forum who are wondering where people are coming from! :)

No, we certainly wouldn't want to look like angry cynics.

The "woo" people took over my psychic thread over there with Rocky remaining unchallenged. I wish I had the time to take on those challenges personally, but I don't. This is an aside to my not wanting to alienate the general population, because they are a very helpful group when it comes to missing person's cases.

At this point, it's up to the volunteers if they wish to pursue it. I hope the WS admins will have an open mind to this. It is highly unlikely that Tricia approves the memberships herself.

Hi Websleuths admins! :sewelcome:

[RSLancastr]

I think it now still doesn't take away from her softer approach, but leaves out the encouraging statements.Better. Thanks.

[Gr8wight]

I had never heard of a forum being able to tell where a prospective member clicked in from, but I believe it!

I know Tricia personally, and she knows I am doing the series and supports it. However, my preference was to be anonymous in a sense when trying to do a little "woo prevention" over there. It might be claimed I am biased, hence the new members who try to win over believers with logic.

Thanks for the info......I learned something new today.

What do you mean? You told me you could see when someone came to your blog from mine. No different.

[Luke T.]

No, we certainly wouldn't want to look like angry cynics.

I'm an angry cynic when it comes to psychic predators. They better not sign me up for their forum.

[Kelly]

A forum would not work quite the same way as the blog. I assume they would have a more complex hits tracker. On the blog, I can only see history going back so many pages. I can't see, for example, visitor info from 3 days ago.

The registration process on a forum isn't on par with leaving a blog comment. I have no idea where the anonymous commenters come from because my hits counter is fairly basic and doesn't take a leap from the blog page to the comments page, which is a separate page anyway with no hits counter.

I don't know alot about forums and the way the hits might track a person as they visit the site and then register, but I suppose had I thought about it long enough and hard enough, it might have occurred to me that they would know where the person entered their site.

[Luke T.]

A forum would not work quite the same way as the blog. I assume they would have a more complex hits tracker. On the blog, I can only see history going back so many pages. I can't see, for example, visitor info from 3 days ago.

The registration process on a forum isn't on par with leaving a blog comment. I have no idea where the anonymous commenters come from because my hits counter is fairly basic and doesn't take a leap from the blog page to the comments page, which is a separate page anyway with no hits counter.

I don't know alot about forums and the way the hits might track a person as they visit the site and then register, but I suppose had I thought about it long enough and hard enough, it might have occurred to me that they would know where the person entered their site.

Years ago on here, someone linked to a web page of a guy who claimed he could make clouds disappear with his mind. Neal Slade. Well, Neal was able to detect that a link to his page was here and he dropped in. Much hilarity ensued.

[Luke T.]

And just out of habit, I always go from one web site to another via Google precisely for this reason. I made Google my home page and hit the Home button every time I leap in or out of a web site.

[RSLancastr]

The stats kept by my StopKaz site tells me all of the web pages people have linked to my site from, but it does not tell me who linked from where.

But I can imagine such a thing being a feature of forum software.

[Gr8wight]

A good counter can record the IP address of a visitor, which pages on your website that visitor viewed, and the web page that visitor arrived from. All fairly standard counter technology.

No matter.

[Kelly]

In other news, I was contacted by a reporter for People Magazine and had a preliminary interview, which has been submitted to go up the food chain there. Now, before you get all excited, the topic of discussion is the emotional effects of having a missing loved one. There is no guarantee at this point in the process of it ever making the magazine. It's in the beginning processes.

However, you will be pleased to know that I took the opportunity to educate her on our issues here, and I strongly suggested that she consider it for a future story. (I gave her the link to the series.)

I then remembered that I have a direct contact with a reporter from USA Today from the time we were in there last July. I sent him the link and basic info as well.

When I get done with the series, I will send it to other media who take an interest in missing persons, such as Nancy Grace and Greta.

[Katachresis]

In other news, I was contacted by a reporter ....

Kelly, you never cease to amaze me.

[Kelly]

Kelly, you never cease to amaze me.

Thanks Kat.

I'm back after a busy couple of busy days with our board meeting going on and some unexpected technical issues.

[ysabella]

This has nothing to do with psychics, but I thought I'd pass on the good news that my home state is putting photos of missing kids on the sides of trucks (http://www.theolympian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060420/NEWS06/60420085) now. Alright, Washington!

[Kelly]

This has nothing to do with psychics, but I thought I'd pass on the good news that my home state is putting photos of missing kids on the sides of trucks (http://www.theolympian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060420/NEWS06/60420085) now. Alright, Washington!

Hello ysabella,

Thanks for the story link. I saw this earlier this evening and was very pleased, especially for Shania's mother. She was our 1st parental abduction case. I wish I could say she was back home. It's been too long.

Kelly

[rjh01]

Volunteer needed on this site (PSYCHICS WHO THINK THEY CAN HELP OR OFFER INFORMATION (http://flfiesta.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=6)) http://flfiesta.com/forum/index.php (high level forum). The sub forum was almost dead for a time then psychicladyshar (http://flfiesta.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=69) has started posting lots of stuff there. She claims to be a psychic.

I would love to challenge her, but I think I am a bit out of my depth with this lady. Does anyone want to got there and challenge her? So far no-one has.

Otherwise any tips on how I can do it? I already have put a few posts there showing how stupid the psychics are, but those were easy to do. I am expecting a hostile reception (obvious statement).

The forum exists to help find a missing lady.

[meg]

Ok. I volunteer. I posted over there and pointed them toward Kelly's blog. Hopefully some of them will read it.

Meg

[meg]

Well, I think I'm about to get banned. If someone else wants to try, good luck to ya.

Meg

[rjh01]

We have been banned. All I did was ask for proof. I did receive an e-mail quote in full

You and thinker drove Shar away! You'all don't know what your doing!! How do you know he/she wasn't the perpetrator... !
I have lost at least 4 people to the angry people at centralfloridamissing.com forum!!! because they don't believe people should speak freely!!!

I was never angry. I was always polite. I think the e-mail says more about the sender than it says about me.

[rjh01]

Double post deleted.

[Roadtoad]

Oh, the horror! You demanded PROOF!?!?! What's the matter with you! Don't you know that asking for proof will screw up the juju, and make it impossible for a psychic to track the missing person? That's why they can't find Jimmy Hoffa!

[meg]

Yeah. I got some pm's from her, too, saying the whole purpose of that forum area is to try to catch the perp pretending to be a psychic.

Unbelievable.

[delphi_ote]

Central Florida Missing?! Is there something going down in my area I could do something about? If so, let me know!

[Kelly]

Jennifer Keese is missing from Orlando.

Thanks all for trying there. It was a valiant effort. The only thing I can say in their defense is that I have heard that sometimes the perp comes around and pretends to be a psychic. I wish I could remember where I read this, but I am sure it was a verified story. However, overall, they're still giving psychics validity. I sure hope it is true that the family is not opening the doors to them.

I'm still partly AWOL at this time. We had one of our biggest public events of the year today, and tomorrow I have to go out of town for a family thing I can't get out of. On top of that, we're still facing some critical loss of data that has me away from here and the blog. When it rains, it pours. :(

Thanks again for the fine attempts!

Did Angus McPresley get banned, too? I saw he posted on another thread over there.

Kelly

[rjh01]

Click on the links I provided above and take a look. I no longer can as I have been banned. Is there any way around this?

[meg]

Strangely, I'm not banned yet. I keep posting, though ;)

I don't think Angus was banned, either.

[rjh01]

Was not a wasted effort. We (ie Meg, Me, who else?) are credited with scarring off at least 4 people.

[meg]

Yeah. :) And at least a few people were reintroduced to Kelly's blog. It might take a while to read all that and let it sink in.

I think there's a little headway already going on with the admin, she wrote "They and other psychics obviously believe they have powers (maybe they are deceiving themselves or they are just outright liars), just like other religions (which there are thousands of; cults even). "

Time will tell.

Meg

[delphi_ote]

Jennifer Keese is missing from Orlando.
Right. But are there any psychics in need of roughing up down here? :D

[meg]

hehee :) I think the ones in question today are in PA. They were hinting about how much better they could do if they were in FL, though. Maybe somebody will buy em a free trip down.

[meg]

Aw nuts. Looks like I got banned after all. Ah well. I tried.

[delphi_ote]

hehee :) I think the ones in question today are in PA. They were hinting about how much better they could do if they were in FL, though. Maybe somebody will buy em a free trip down.
Hmm... they can stay in PA. We've got enough lunatics in Orlando.

[staragent]

Hi all!,

I was so excited to find this forum and after reading what you have been through, I want you to know that I USED to assist the admin of that other forum as a moderator UNTIL she started posting pictures of innocent people and publicizing a juvenile's arrest information and slandering Orlando and everyone in it. I finally severed ties and on the wishes of ChildWatch, we opened up centralfloridamissing.com. We actually do NOT allow psychics on that site or better yet, to post. Anyone is welcome, it is an open uncensored forum and right now our focus is on Jennifer Kesse but we also have a team of experts doing whatever possible to shut flfiesta down. The Kesse family has repeatedly begged her to remove their daughter's name off of her forum and she refuses to do so, claiming freedom of speech. So in the meantime (the majority of our users are banned from that forum including myself) she surfs the internet posting pictures of the "doctored" POI photo which is misleading and is actually hindering the investigation. We have tried to reason with her, to no avail. I am not familiar with internet harassment, but am learning. She is degrading the Jennifer Kesse name! Our forum truly wants to help find Jennifer and we are very dedicated to that respect. We are linked with courttv, huffscrimeblog, crimelibrary, and angelsthatcare. We have only been up a good solid month or so but response has been overwhelming for an open, uncensored forum. You do NOT have to register for our forum.

I am writing though to see if we could also be linked up as I have been reviewing your site for the last several days and I am so proud of the work you have been accomplishing! We are in the process of writing as mall FREE Ebook regarding SafeCalls and how to carry them out and so forth. It should be up on our homepage by the end of the week. IF anyone on here has any additional safety tips, PLEASE let us know and we will add them. We are also putting together a FREE self-defense class in the near future! We work very hard to try and prevent anyone else from going missing....

Thank you so much for allowing me to post, if anyone has any quesitons about the flfiesta site, I will be more than happy to answer them as well as forward a copy of the owner's criminal record to you!

Regards,

Ginger
centralfloridamissing.com/fo...highlight=#3626

[Luke T.]

she started posting pictures of innocent people

Scum. Utter scum. I so hate these people!

I finally severed ties and on the wishes of ChildWatch, we opened up centralfloridamissing.com. We actually do NOT allow psychics on that site or better yet, to post. Anyone is welcome, it is an open uncensored forum and right now our focus is on Jennifer Kesse but we also have a team of experts doing whatever possible to shut flfiesta down. The Kesse family has repeatedly begged her to remove their daughter's name off of her forum and she refuses to do so, claiming freedom of speech. So in the meantime (the majority of our users are banned from that forum including myself) she surfs the internet posting pictures of the "doctored" POI photo which is misleading and is actually hindering the investigation. We have tried to reason with her, to no avail. I am not familiar with internet harassment, but am learning. She is degrading the Jennifer Kesse name! Our forum truly wants to help find Jennifer and we are very dedicated to that respect. We are linked with courttv, huffscrimeblog, crimelibrary, and angelsthatcare. We have only been up a good solid month or so but response has been overwhelming for an open, uncensored forum. You do NOT have to register for our forum.

I don't know who you are, but I like you already.



I am writing though to see if we could also be linked up as I have been reviewing your site for the last several days and I am so proud of the work you have been accomplishing! We are in the process of writing as mall FREE Ebook regarding SafeCalls and how to carry them out and so forth. It should be up on our homepage by the end of the week.

What is a SafeCall?

Thank you so much for allowing me to post, if anyone has any quesitons about the flfiesta site, I will be more than happy to answer them as well as forward a copy of the owner's criminal record to you!

Hmmm. Very tempting. I will send you a PM here with my email address. I would like a copy of that record.


centralfloridamissing.com/fo...highlight=#3626

A simply amazing site. An impressive demonstration of the power of love. Bless you.

[delphi_ote]

Hi all!,

I was so excited to find this forum and after reading what you have been through, I want you to know that I USED to assist the admin of that other forum as a moderator UNTIL she started posting pictures of innocent people and publicizing a juvenile's arrest information and slandering Orlando and everyone in it. I finally severed ties and on the wishes of ChildWatch, we opened up centralfloridamissing.com. We actually do NOT allow psychics on that site or better yet, to post. Anyone is welcome, it is an open uncensored forum and right now our focus is on Jennifer Kesse but we also have a team of experts doing whatever possible to shut flfiesta down. The Kesse family has repeatedly begged her to remove their daughter's name off of her forum and she refuses to do so, claiming freedom of speech. So in the meantime (the majority of our users are banned from that forum including myself) she surfs the internet posting pictures of the "doctored" POI photo which is misleading and is actually hindering the investigation. We have tried to reason with her, to no avail. I am not familiar with internet harassment, but am learning. She is degrading the Jennifer Kesse name! Our forum truly wants to help find Jennifer and we are very dedicated to that respect. We are linked with courttv, huffscrimeblog, crimelibrary, and angelsthatcare. We have only been up a good solid month or so but response has been overwhelming for an open, uncensored forum. You do NOT have to register for our forum.

I am writing though to see if we could also be linked up as I have been reviewing your site for the last several days and I am so proud of the work you have been accomplishing! We are in the process of writing as mall FREE Ebook regarding SafeCalls and how to carry them out and so forth. It should be up on our homepage by the end of the week. IF anyone on here has any additional safety tips, PLEASE let us know and we will add them. We are also putting together a FREE self-defense class in the near future! We work very hard to try and prevent anyone else from going missing....

Thank you so much for allowing me to post, if anyone has any quesitons about the flfiesta site, I will be more than happy to answer them as well as forward a copy of the owner's criminal record to you!

Regards,

Ginger
centralfloridamissing.com/fo...highlight=#3626
If I can do anything to help, I'm in Orlando. If you need a volunteer of some kind, let me know.

[staragent]

Thank you both for your responses and so quickly I might add! I am literally without words which is rare as my nickname is "The Postinator"...long story short, I follow the owner of that flfiesta site to all the different blog sites she is a member of and I go behind and ATTEMPT to clean up any mess she is making, like the doctored photo, the arabic writing on a flyer downtown, and her latest scheme are the psychics...no comment there, I am WAY to logical of a person to entertain those thoughts. I am actually an investigator for ChildWatch and we have already apprehended two sexual predators off of our website and we are working on a 3rd, hence the reason for an open, uncensored forum. Is it a lot of work? YES, but we are not run by just one admin, we have a very large trusted group and let me tell you, we have all become family!

I love this site as I don't see any bickering or jabs or disagreements, I mean sure you might ask for facts supporting a post but you don't degrade anyone, well that is how we are as well....

I did take the link from here with the letter from "kelly" I believe it is Jason's mother, where she was talking of psychics not helping and I posted it on our site, HOPING that when the flfiesta owner TROLLS on our forum and steals our information, she will steal that and maybe read it, perhaps her conscious will get to her after that!

We do need help, any help to find Jennifer Kesse, we need to bring closure to her family and bring her home....

don't know if I am allowed to put my email on here, so if I am not, I apologize in advance and you may remove it, but if anyone wants to email me, please do so: admin@centralfloridamissing.

Thank you for all that you do!!

Ginger

[staragent]

This is only a preliminary list, we are waiting for L.E. to put their two cents in as well!! Sorry I forgot it in my last reply!

SafeCalls

1.Establish a Contact Person, the more the better. This could be a friend, a neighbor, a relative, anyone that you are able to call 24/7 if need be.

2. The contact person needs to have someone in your family they can get in touch with, names and phone numbers in case of an emergency.

3. Always call your contact person when you will be going somewhere late at nite, regardless of where it is.

4. When you break routine, call your contact person. IE: You wake up in the middle of the nite coughing your guts out and have no cough medicine, so you take a ride to the store to get some....CALL SOMEONE to let them know.

5. When driving in an unfamiliar area, be on the phone with your contact person.

6. If you typically go the same route to work, school, or out somewhere, and you must change your route due to an accident, road blockage, construction, detour, etc., Call your CONTACT person so if something happens to you, we know your last whereabouts!

7. Call your CONTACT person even if you have a "weird" feeling, its better to be safe than sorry...

I will be adding more to this and please, anyone else feel free to chime in, I am going to print all these up nicely with publisher in a flyer or something so that it can be given out!

Thanks,
Ginger

[Luke T.]

I am actually an investigator for ChildWatch and we have already apprehended two sexual predators off of our website and we are working on a 3rd

Now THAT is impressive! Wow!

I'm the father of four children. I'd give you a medal if I could.

[Luke T.]

In other news, I was contacted by a reporter for People Magazine and had a preliminary interview, which has been submitted to go up the food chain there. Now, before you get all excited, the topic of discussion is the emotional effects of having a missing loved one. There is no guarantee at this point in the process of it ever making the magazine. It's in the beginning processes.

If it happens, it will be the first time in my life I have bought a People magazine.

Howver, you will be pleased to know that I took the opportunity to educate her on our issues here, and I strongly suggested that she consider it for a future story. (I gave her the link to the series.)

Heh. People magazine slamming psychics. That would be almost in the "miracle" category considering their venue and that psychics are popular in Hollywood.

I hope it happens. I hope it happens. I hope it happens.

[Kelly]

Hello Ginger,

Thank you for posting the link to this thread on your forum. It might be better, however, to post the link to the beginning of the series on psychics instead. This thread is for discussion pertaining to that series and obtaining help in dealing with the issue. It is not a discussion thread about missing persons as a cause or safety issues.

At this time, we do not post links on our site to forums. We post resources for nonprofits, with one exception, which is The Charley Project. The nonprofits we will post as a resource are ones with which we have established a strong relationship, wherein we fully trust in the services they may provide to families we refer. In Florida, we refer to KlaasKids. The Search Center is based there.

Please do not ask me to post a link to Child Watch. I understand they are under investigation. Whether they are guilty of any wrongdoing whatsoever is not for us to decide nor discuss. http://www.wftv.com/news/6791362/detail.html Again, we only refer to trusted organizations.

We can however, agree that psychics have no place in a fruitful missing person's search. I'm glad your forum does not invite them or validate them.

Best wishes to you in your work for the missing. We do have Jennifer posted on our main website and our forum. May she return home safe, and very soon.

Kelly

[Kelly]

If it happens, it will be the first time in my life I have bought a People magazine.



Heh. People magazine slamming psychics. That would be almost in the "miracle" category considering their venue and that psychics are popular in Hollywood.

I hope it happens. I hope it happens. I hope it happens.

I do too, but I have my doubts. After we had the dicussion, and I sent her the link, we conversed a few more times via email. I asked twice what she thought about the series and our conversation, and she did not respond to that at all. Hollywood=woo :(

I will be very happy, of course, if some of our families can be featured in there. The ones she forwarded to the editor are families who have never had much press, and one NEVER.

[staragent]

Kelly,

I do apologize for posting in the wrong places and whatnot. I never meant to cause any problems.

ChildWatch is NOT under investigation and as you know there are always two sides to every story and it is a discussion does not belong on here or our forum either.

I am deeply sorry for stepping on anyone's toes and thank you for your valuable information.

Feel free to edit my posts to make them appropriate according to forum rules and I thank you for the explanation.

Sincerely,

Ginger

[Kelly]

Kelly,

I do apologize for posting in the wrong places and whatnot. I never meant to cause any problems.

ChildWatch is NOT under investigation and as you know there are always two sides to every story and it is a discussion does not belong on here or our forum either.

I am deeply sorry for stepping on anyone's toes and thank you for your valuable information.

Feel free to edit my posts to make them appropriate according to forum rules and I thank you for the explanation.

Sincerely,

Ginger

Perhaps better wording would have been "under scrutiny". I apologize for that. The two sides to every story could also apply to the other forum you mentioned. I am not enamored of them for hosting psychics, but I know nothing of their other activities, nor do I have time to research them.

I do know that there were public disputes about Jennifer's sites. I feel very bad for the family, as they do not need that at this difficult time. The focus should be on Jennifer, period.

Like most threads on forums, there are occasion "derailments". That's expected. I don't feel you stepped on anyone's toes.

You may want to consider posting your safety information on the Community Forum. There have been some productive self-defense threads on there.

Even when the series is done, my hope is that families of the missing and related orgs will seek help here if they want to gain knowledge about the truth as it pertains to psychics and missing people.

Kelly

[delphi_ote]

Kelly,

I do apologize for posting in the wrong places and whatnot. I never meant to cause any problems.

ChildWatch is NOT under investigation and as you know there are always two sides to every story and it is a discussion does not belong on here or our forum either.

I am deeply sorry for stepping on anyone's toes and thank you for your valuable information.

Feel free to edit my posts to make them appropriate according to forum rules and I thank you for the explanation.

Sincerely,

Ginger
To clairfy a bit more, since you seem confused. You're posting on the James Randi Education Foundation (http://www.randi.org/) forum in a thread started by KellyJ about psychics and missing people. KellyJ isn't a moderator here. She's not speaking officially on behalf of the JREF or even the JREF forum. She's just a member of the rabble like the rest of us (she just happens to be 90% cooler than the rest of us.) :D

KellyJ's blog is a different thing, and it's over here (http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/03/30606-pmp-introduction-to-psychics-and.html). She told us all about it here in this thread, and many posters here have contributed. It's an amazing bit of work.

I hope that clarifies things a bit more. Don't worry about an initial derail. It helps us to learn who you are and what you're passionate about. Threads have seen far worse derails on this forum.

Just try to stay on topic in this thread. Some amazing things have been accomplished so far by the posters here.

It's true. :)

[Roadtoad]

Staragent, with your permission, I'd like to link to your site on my blog. I've done it for Kelly, and hopefully, it'll help you. (Hey, if both of the folks who read my blog can help, great.)

[meg]

Well, I'll be darned. I've been invited back to the flfiesta forum. She made my topic its own forum: http://flfiesta.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=44 It's not in the "Psychics" area, though. It's off the main page.

What do you folks think? Should I bother returning? Is it worth the effort? Or is this a last ditch effort from the forum owner to get someone besides "psychics" to talk about stuff?

Meg

[Luke T.]

Well, I'll be darned. I've been invited back to the flfiesta forum. She made my topic its own forum: http://flfiesta.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=44 It's not in the "Psychics" area, though. It's off the main page.

What do you folks think? Should I bother returning? Is it worth the effort? Or is this a last ditch effort from the forum owner to get someone besides "psychics" to talk about stuff?

Meg

Keep going. I read the topic and just might join in.

Okay, folks, here's a quote from a supposed psychic on that site. Remember what I said about a bag of hammers?

I'm speaking on behalf of all the real psychic, your post is offensive. WE ARE REAL psychic. I know you may have come across others who prayed on people. However, we have know need to and I'm a mother a wife and college student in CRIMINAL JUSTICE, an honor student to.

:D

More:

thinker I have helped people find loss items, i have described people to other people and their jobs and jobs they will have and it has happened. I have gave them readings on their health problems. I don't got to proove it to you.

Oy.

[Luke T.]

You are aware their are parts of the brain the average human don't use, those parts also have senses, did you know that?
Albert Eistens part of his brain was larger than usual. Their has been psychic used in a government activities. I have watched true stories on television.

Aggghhhh!

[Luke T.]

I have watched true stories on television.

Heh.

Heh-heh-heh.

Ha! Ha! Ha!

MWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HAGGGgggghhhhhh...

Ah-hee.

Whoooo

[Luke T.]

Okay, meg. I've joined the fray over there.

[Kelly]

Hello all,

Luke and Meg, you're doing a great job over there! It's too bad though she removed it from within the psychic forum. I hope it's still getting alot of reads, especially from the predators. I wonder if she saw what Ginger said about her here and if that prompted the invite back. :confused:

Luke, I'm glad you said it first about the grammar issues. I was thinking the same thing. Unfortunately, I think education isn't what it used to be. I recently met a college senior who was majoring in journalism/public relations, and I kid you not...she did not know the difference between quit, quiet, and quite. :(

In a general note to all readers here, I want to tell you that all missing person's organizations are not created equal. This is not saying anything about the one Ginger affiliates her forum with, but is something you should know if you're going to reach out and help. If anyone has an interest in volunteering to help with a local organization, PM me, and I will let you know of a reputable org in your area if there is one.

Kelly

[meg]

Hi Kelly, Luke,

I know what you mean. I googled her email addy posted on another thread, and almost lost my coffee through my nose. She claims to have a degree in writing, and has self-published her works of poetry.

She's a piece of work, alright.

I wonder if her spirit guides can spell any better than she does?

Meg

[meg]

When psychics call in leads on a missing person case the leads should absolutely be followed, just like any other lead. There have been instances in ongoing cases where someone wanted to confess their crime against a victim, and the criminal called the police claiming to have psychic information about the crime.

Hi Kelly,

I grabbed that quote from Colleen Nick's post on voice4themissing. I am wondering if there is a way to find out more about that statement. Particularly, I would like to know more about when that happened and how. How many times, etc.

Do you know any more about that? Or could you point me toward who I might talk with to find out more?

I guess I keep coming around to the question, does that justify somehow pretending psychics are useful, on the off chance that a killer/criminal will call in a tip pretending to be a psychic? If the killer really wanted to call in a tip, could he not just pretend to be someone else? Or call it in anonymously?

Thanks
Meg

[Kelly]

Hi Kelly,

I grabbed that quote from Colleen Nick's post on voice4themissing. I am wondering if there is a way to find out more about that statement. Particularly, I would like to know more about when that happened and how. How many times, etc.

Do you know any more about that? Or could you point me toward who I might talk with to find out more?

I guess I keep coming around to the question, does that justify somehow pretending psychics are useful, on the off chance that a killer/criminal will call in a tip pretending to be a psychic? If the killer really wanted to call in a tip, could he not just pretend to be someone else? Or call it in anonymously?

Thanks
Meg

Hi Meg,

I will email Colleen this evening and ask if she knows more about this.

The only reason I can think in this case, to pretend to be a psychic, is because of the families who let them into their lives. I have heard that some murderers take strange pleasure in being close to their victims.

[Kelly]

Hi Kelly, Luke,

I know what you mean. I googled her email addy posted on another thread, and almost lost my coffee through my nose. She claims to have a degree in writing, and has self-published her works of poetry.

She's a piece of work, alright.

I wonder if her spirit guides can spell any better than she does?

Meg

Would you be allowed to ask if she can provide proof of this degree? If she cannot supply it, or refuses to do so, it could cause doubt in some fence sitters. Isn't there a saying that goes something like: "Dishonest in one thing, dishonest in all."

[meg]

Would you be allowed to ask if she can provide proof of this degree? If she cannot supply it, or refuses to do so, it could cause doubt in some fence sitters. Isn't there a saying that goes something like: "Dishonest in one thing, dishonest in all."

Well, she hasn't stated it on this forum. She just says it on her other websites, which I found on my own, not by her pointing me there...

I dunno. Considering many of the people over there don't spell much better, I'm wondering if they'd even understand what we were talking about. You know?

Meg

[staragent]

[QUOTE=KellyJ;1601579]Hello all,

Luke and Meg, you're doing a great job over there! It's too bad though she removed it from within the psychic forum. I hope it's still getting alot of reads, especially from the predators. I wonder if she saw what Ginger said about her here and if that prompted the invite back. :confused:


Kelly,

Yes, she did see what I posted on here as she followed up with a very nasty and threatening email to me as well. I just put it in the folder that contains the other 388 emails from her. She has also threatened assault against me via email and instant message. I am a single divorced mother of a teenager, I say "Bring it on". Perhaps her visions are warning her not to mess with me because her threats have been just that, and I am still waiting for a knock on my door from her, I have a special treat in store!

What she has actually done over on her forum, and I am so sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but she has made that category and invited some of you back in, but the category is closed off to only certain people. Basically, the lovely psychic Shar who does not use spell check EVER, and a couple others, are not able to see what Thinker or Luke T are saying about them at this time.

Just further proof of how manipulative she is.

What can be done? I simply ignore her. It doesn't work though.

Thanks for your efforts!

Ginger :)

[meg]

What she has actually done over on her forum, and I am so sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but she has made that category and invited some of you back in, but the category is closed off to only certain people. Basically, the lovely psychic Shar who does not use spell check EVER, and a couple others, are not able to see what Thinker or Luke T are saying about them at this time.


Ahhhhhhhhhh. I see. It didn't occur to me that you could do that. I guess as long as its visible to the rest of the posters, though, it might do some good.

Thanks for the heads up.

Meg

[Luke T.]

What she has actually done over on her forum, and I am so sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but she has made that category and invited some of you back in, but the category is closed off to only certain people. Basically, the lovely psychic Shar who does not use spell check EVER, and a couple others, are not able to see what Thinker or Luke T are saying about them at this time.

How do you know this? And if it is true, it is complete and utter BS that psychicladyshar is not allowed to defend herself to me.

Sorry to derail your topic further, Kelly. But this is a psychic who claims to have visions about a missing person.

[RSLancastr]

Isn't there a saying that goes something like: "Dishonest in one thing, dishonest in all."Well, if there is, it's inaccurate! I know of a lot of people who lie about their age, for example, but are reasonably honest otherwise.

It should be (If someone is) "Dishonest in one thing, verify the rest!"

But yes, pointing out lies like this (assuming it is a lie) can help with fence-sitters.

But you might be surprised at how little effect it can have on True Believers.

For example, I once spoke with a minister of a church where Kaz was scheduled to speak. He told me that he had doubts about what he called "the celebrity part of her story" (her claimed connections to the deMille family and various other stars, etc.), but that he believed the rest of it (her having been in the WTC on 9/11, dying, the "Rock from Jesus," etc.).

It was very depressing.

[staragent]

Luke T.,

We know this because there is no way that the owner of that site would allow you to post your suspicions as you might "drive" away the actual perpetrator pretending to be a psychic, which is what she claims. I know that Shar would have responded to you by now so I am sure that the particular section that was "made" for you guys, is actually closed off to everyone but you guys. Regular users don't even see the category unless given a special access to it. This can be done and is quite useful for discussing specifics about a case that you do not want out in the open.

I will send you an email privately on what she is trying to do to me today, quite vengeful (sp) I might add. But I have been posting a lot of research about psychics and the abuse they cause to families and have been putting the link to this forum for people to get further validation of it and the flfiesta owner is very upset with me. I don't care, she keeps calling in her psychic tips to the hotline which is ridiculous and ties up the line. Such nonsense.

Thanks,
Ginger

[RSLancastr]

We know this because there is no way that the owner of that site would allow you to post your suspicions as you might "drive" away the actual perpetrator pretending to be a psychic, which is what she claims. I know that Shar would have responded to you by now so I am sure that the particular section that was "made" for you guys, is actually closed off to everyone but you guys. Regular users don't even see the category unless given a special access to it. This can be done and is quite useful for discussing specifics about a case that you do not want out in the open.In other words, you DON'T "know this," you are assuming it.

I just went to the forum, unregistered, and the forum " VOICE FOR THE MISSING - PSYCHICS ARE HARMFUL PLEASE READ!" was listed, and I was able to see it.

So it was apparently NOT made just for Meg anbd Luke T.

[rjh01]

You are lucky. I cannot get to the site at all. The window says it is opening the page. Data comes in, but nothing else.

Those quotes from Luke T is from a person who I asked for their experience and was banned for it. Is she still posting?

[Kelly]

Hi Kelly,

I grabbed that quote from Colleen Nick's post on voice4themissing. I am wondering if there is a way to find out more about that statement. Particularly, I would like to know more about when that happened and how. How many times, etc.

Do you know any more about that? Or could you point me toward who I might talk with to find out more?

I guess I keep coming around to the question, does that justify somehow pretending psychics are useful, on the off chance that a killer/criminal will call in a tip pretending to be a psychic? If the killer really wanted to call in a tip, could he not just pretend to be someone else? Or call it in anonymously?

Thanks
Meg

Colleen responded and said:

"I should have said "it is possible" since I do not have a case in point that I can cite as a source. However, I did call my police chief today and he said that he will get me one. He is out of the office today, but hopefully by tomorrow I will have a quotable source for you."

[meg]

Thanks Kelly! I look forward to reading that.

rjh01, try removing your cookies and clearing your browser cache. When I first got banned, I experienced a similar thing, but after clearing cookies and cache, I was able to view the forum again.

Meg

[Kelly]

The blog stories are back on and started yesterday. We're winding down though unless something else outstanding comes up.

[meg]

Oh Kelly.

I just read that latest installments on the blog. My heart just aches for you, for what you've had to go through.

I admire your strength so very much. You are an inspiration.

I hope you find him soon.

Meg

[Kelly]

Oh Kelly.

I just read that latest installments on the blog. My heart just aches for you, for what you've had to go through.

I admire your strength so very much. You are an inspiration.

I hope you find him soon.

Meg

Thank you, Meg.

Your support and help on the series and related adventures has been invaluable.

[RSLancastr]

Kelly, I just read the last two blog entries.

I'm sorry, but I want to throttle "Jane." How she could be human and still force you into that situation is beyond me. :mad:

One suggestion for the future: when making up names for a small group of people, it's best to make the names as different from each other as possible. A first step in this is to at least make sure the names all start with a different letter. It makes it easier for a reader to keep them straight in their mind. I kept getting Jane and Julie mixed up.

I look forward to reading the third part of the story. Partly because I think that writing about it is making you relive it, and I ache for you. Finish it so you can put it behind you as much as is possible.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[elaine]

Kelly,

Obviously, I don't know you, only from these threads, but I have to echo Meg, when she says you are an inspiration. To put up with the crap that you do, on top of everything else...well, what can I say..

YOU ARE A ROCK STAR :-)

Keep fighting the good fight.

[Kelly]

It has taken me more than 4 years to be able to write about these things. That's what these people do to people like me.

Yes, I will be so glad to put it behind me. I've learned alot more than I would have imagined about the topic, thanks to the good folks here at JREF.

In gratitude,
Kelly
PS: Robert, ITA about the name thing. Thanks.

[meg]

Does anyone know of, and if so, could you please point me to, a place where psychics can post their predictions, where the predictions are date/time stamped in some way, and the psychics are not permitted to edit or delete them?

Thanks
Meg

[Luke T.]

Does anyone know of, and if so, could you please point me to, a place where psychics can post their predictions, where the predictions are date/time stamped in some way, and the psychics are not permitted to edit or delete them?

Thanks
Meg

I wish I could remember the name of the forum where something like 32 JREF posters were banned in one day. On that site, there was a section where psychics posted their predictions. It was orginally open to the public until we came along, and then it was made a sort of "psychics only" section. The rest of the board was still open to everyone. Maybe this post will jog someone's memory of what board I'm talking about.


There is another board which is an old favorite of mine. It was the first internet board I ever joined. The Free Enterprise Mission. A giant paranormal board. You can find it by clicking here. (http://communities.anomalies.net/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi)

They have sections for Art Bell, Jeff Rense, Zacharia Sitchin. :)

They have a place to post predictions here. (http://communities.anomalies.net/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=12) A few years ago, people used to actually post their own predictions there which gave Ed and I a lot of amusement. Nowadays, they post the usual Nostradamus, Mayan calendar, and other third party source end of the world crap. No great mystery why that has occurred. :D

Note: Poster "Luke" is not me!

[sophia8]

I wish I could remember the name of the forum where something like 32 JREF posters were banned in one day. On that site, there was a section where psychics posted their predictions. It was orginally open to the public until we came along, and then it was made a sort of "psychics only" section. The rest of the board was still open to everyone. Maybe this post will jog someone's memory of what board I'm talking about.
Is it this one? (http://www.prophecies.us/) Although the prophecies forum is still open to all.
ETA: I see that somebody recently posted a Tubgirl pcture there! Naughty, naughty!

[flaresident]

Is it prophecies.us Although the prophecies forum is still open to all.
ETA: I see that somebody recently posted a Tubgirl pcture there! Naughty, naughty!

This is a highly intellegent board!!

[Kelly]

This blog comment, which came last night, makes it all worthwhile:

"I can't thank you enough for this series. Each story sounds strangly familiar to our experience looking for my brother. In fact there are so many parallels. We used several psychics to help us in the beginning, through different family members.

I've been so tempted to try another psychic, because I thought they might have gotten some of it. And what can it hurt anyway. Now I realize how wrong they all were. I also know first hand the hurt and harm they cause with their speculations. He's alive, no he's not moving now. He's in a hole. He's under water. Someone's driving his vechical. He's with his vechical under water. It's true about the amount of extra unimportant information they add to their stories. Now I see it for what it really is.

Each psychic was in for the money or even fame. One even tried to use us to get on a psychic detective TV show.

Thank you for this blog and the help you give to the families of the missing."

[RSLancastr]

That's great, Kelly! I'm confident that the series will continue to make a difference in peoples' lives long after it is complete.

[RSLancastr]

Kelly, I just read the conclusion to your three-part story about Julie the con.

I really need to make sure I've taken my blood pressure meds before I read this stuff. :mad:

One formatting comment: While helpful for most people, using differently-colored text to make your analysis of the reading "stand out" can be problematic for people with color-blindness. One out of ten adult males suffers from some degree of it, IIRC.

Using some other method of making your analysis stand out (italics, bolding, brackets, indentation, etc.) instead of (or in addition to) color-coding helps color-blind people to differentiate, and actually helps non-color-blind people to do so as well.

Here's a sample from your blog:

It was a fairly busy highway. Julie insisted it was Highway 27. That was the first deception. There is no Highway 27 anywhere near our home, period.Here it is again, with the addition of italics and brackets:

It was a fairly busy highway. Julie insisted it was Highway 27. [That was the first deception. There is no Highway 27 anywhere near our home, period.]The red is still there, helping most people to spot the difference easily, but the brackets and italics allows the color-blind to spot it as well.

[Kelly]

As always, good advice, Robert. Thank you.

I see Meg's still hard at work on the flfiesta forum with the psychics. There's yet another new one on the scene now. Not a surprise!

[Kelly]

I'm hoping this isn't a silly suggestion like some I pose when I'm overtired.

I was thinking of posting a checklist of sorts for people who, no matter what, are going to use psychics to "help" in their missing loved one's cases. A checklist could possibly help them get a bit closer to seeing the light in respect to usefulness of psychics. It may serve to uncover their deceit.

Some examples of items on such a checklist:

1) If the psychic claims to have assisted police on any type of case, ask them to provide the contact info for that LE and specifics on their involvement and what they did to help.
a) how much information did police or the family provide to the psychic
b) what information was already publicly available through news articles or family websites
c) is the case resolved and what was the outcome

2) If they claim to have worked with other families, ask for references and for specifics on what they did to help.
a) what information was already publicly available through news articles or family websites

etc, etc.

[Hellbound]

Sounds like a good idea, Kelly.

Also, some normal business-type questions might be a good idea (you'd have to use your experience to determine if you think they'd be effective), such as:

Are you willing to sign a contract for your services?
Are you willing to agree to a quality clause? If your information is wrong or unverifiable, you forfiet or reduce your fee? (in other words, payment is contigent upon accuracy)
When is payment due? (if they insist on payment up front, that's a warning sign).

A few of these types of questions can go a long way towards verifying the psychics confidence in thier own ability (i.e.-deluded or scammer), as well as placing some protections on the family. I'd suspect most of these psychics would disagree with these strictures.

[Kelly]

Great suggestion, Huntsman.

I'd like to see the tables turned on the psychics on this point.

Maybe they should be billed for wasted resources and time spent chasing down their guesses. :mad:

I know a woman who will not stop using them. She frequently drives hundreds of miles checking on things told to her by psychics, and comes up empty handed. :(

Even though this borders on the ridiculous in a legal sense, (at least here in the US) it might make people think, especially given the negative reaction of the psychic to this demand. They will lose their confidence rather quickly if they are not allowed any leeway and excuses.

[Flo]

Kelly, there's not much I can do from where I live to help you, and I want to thank you for your work and helping me find much better argument to fight the "psychic vampires" in my part of the World, so I thought I'd share this nice story on a French-speaking skeptic board:
http://forum.sceptiques.qc.ca/viewtopic.php?t=2621

"Douce-Lionne" came asking for advice on the feasibility of suing a medium who had advised her to sell her goods and leave town to rebuild her life, following her husband's suicide, and had predicted one of her friend's child was going to die (the friend lives in terror ever since). Looks like she's found a new passion:


Ok, so you lied to me, tried to make a living on a widow's money, so I'll use my newly awakened woman's money and I'll make you understand what it costs to lie and make believe you can talk to the dead, and be careful next time you'll tell a mother her kid's going to die, she's going to lose her job and should sell her house and leave town, losing her friends in the process.

I'll go to court because I don't find it funny that people pretend being "gifted" when their only talent is with doing the dishes and laughing at us as soon as we're past the door.

That's what motivates me, and it was high time I woke up !

[chillzero]

Sounds like a good idea, Kelly.

Also, some normal business-type questions might be a good idea (you'd have to use your experience to determine if you think they'd be effective), such as:

Are you willing to sign a contract for your services?
Are you willing to agree to a quality clause? If your information is wrong or unverifiable, you forfiet or reduce your fee? (in other words, payment is contigent upon accuracy)
When is payment due? (if they insist on payment up front, that's a warning sign).

A few of these types of questions can go a long way towards verifying the psychics confidence in thier own ability (i.e.-deluded or scammer), as well as placing some protections on the family. I'd suspect most of these psychics would disagree with these strictures.

And - would they be willing to sign some kind of confidentiality or non-disclosure agreement - i.e. whatever the outcome of the case, the family won't be taken unawares by a tv show all about them and their psychic saviour at a later date.

[Hellbound]

And - would they be willing to sign some kind of confidentiality or non-disclosure agreement - i.e. whatever the outcome of the case, the family won't be taken unawares by a tv show all about them and their psychic saviour at a later date.

I shoulda thought of that, too :) Great idea!

[Luke T.]

And - would they be willing to sign some kind of confidentiality or non-disclosure agreement - i.e. whatever the outcome of the case, the family won't be taken unawares by a tv show all about them and their psychic saviour at a later date.

That's a two way street. I mean, would the victim be able to publicly disclose what a joke the psychic turned out to be?

Anyway, no psychic is going to provide the information asked for, or sign any piece of paper. They have a ready dodge for every one of the items proposed.

Also, a psychic is going to tell the desperate family of the missing person that there is no time to waste on such things.

It's a good idea to provide a checklist for the family along the lines of "How to tell your psychic is a fraud". But to expect the psychic to participate in an investigation of herself is just not going to happen. ETA: And let's face it, not everyone has good investigative skills to determine if they are being defrauded, particularly when they are emotionally wrecked.

Asking a psychic for the names of families or law enforcement with whom they have worked in the past is going to be answered with, "I would like to give you that information, but I have to respect their privacy."

If they do give the name of a law enforcement officer with whom they have worked, you run the risk of having a law enforcement officer who believes in psychics actually confirming their utility.

I think it would be best to just have a pamphlet with the kinds of quotes that are in the blog series from Klaas and such, as well as official statements from well known police agencies about the utter uselessness of psychics.

In fact, a simple booklet form of the series would be even better.