Satan's Motivation

[Max560]

Suppose that the Dark Lord has compelled us to sin (murder, atheism, failing to pay the tithe, eating bacon, whatever) such that we go to hell.

Why would he let us burn? You'd think that he'd be happpy to see us.

Unless he is merely the property manager of Hell, with God in charge of the actual suffering. Wouldn't that make God a sick bastard?

[shemp]

There is no Satan. I hereby declare the question moot, null and void.

[Max560]

If he does exist, Whose view can we trust regarding the nature of Hell and Satan?

How would we know if he was the victim of a biblical smear campaign?

[triadboy]

Originally posted by Max560
If he does exist, Whose view can we trust regarding the nature of Hell and Satan?

How would we know if he was the victim of a biblical smear campaign?

I agree with Shemp, Hell and Satan are not real. You may just as well pose the questions, "Where does the tooth fairy store all the teeth she collects from our toothless children? How can she afford to pay a quarter for each tooth?".

[shemp]

Originally posted by triadboy


I agree with Shemp, Hell and Satan are not real. You may just as well pose the questions, "Where does the tooth fairy store all the teeth she collects from our toothless children? How can she afford to pay a quarter for each tooth?".

HOW DARE YOU BLASPHEME THE TOOTH FAIRY!!!!!

[Max560]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by triadboy


I agree with Shemp, Hell and Satan are not real. You may just as well pose the questions, "Where does the tooth fairy store all the teeth she collects from our toothless children? How can she afford to pay a quarter for each tooth?". [/QUOTE

I do not think they are real either, but I do like to discuss fiction.

I was just interested in the Idea of Satan as the catch-all of evil deeds.

It is as though Satan is required as a character foil to God. Otherwise, God becomes the proximate cause of suffering and eternal damnation.

Originally posted by Max560
[QUOTE]Originally posted by triadboy


I agree with Shemp, Hell and Satan are not real. You may just as well pose the questions, "Where does the tooth fairy store all the teeth she collects from our toothless children? How can she afford to pay a quarter for each tooth?". [/QUOTE

I do not think they are real either, but I do like to discuss fiction.

I was just interested in the Idea of Satan as the catch-all of evil deeds.

It is as though Satan is required as a character foil to God. Otherwise, God becomes the proximate cause of suffering and eternal damnation.

Ooooh, ugliness. Is there no god without satan? No satan without god? Which is better, creamy or crunchy?

[evildave]

Well, you see, God and Satan were best friends. But then some kryptonite fell from the sky and made satan bald... oh, and EVIL. Then they made the Hall of Justice and Barney said "Let's IMAGINE..."

[Jethro]

Originally posted by Max560
Why would he let us burn? You'd think that he'd be happpy to see us.You're not the first one to think that (see attatched picture). But I think a more conventional view is that Satan doesn't like people at all. So when you die after leading a life of sin, Satan laughs at you because he tricked you and then he throws you into the lake of fire and pokes you with his trident.

[triadboy]

Originally posted by Max560
[QUOTE]Originally posted by triadboy
[B]
It is as though Satan is required as a character foil to God. Otherwise, God becomes the proximate cause of suffering and eternal damnation.

Originally God was just that - the source of all good and evil. (That caused many a philosophical problem) It was only after the Babylonian exile that satan was recognized as the evil one.

[GrapeJ713]

Originally posted by Max560
Suppose that the Dark Lord has compelled us to sin (murder, atheism, failing to pay the tithe, eating bacon, whatever) such that we go to hell.
Why would he let us burn? You'd think that he'd be happpy to see us.
Unless he is merely the property manager of Hell, with God in charge of the actual suffering. Wouldn't that make God a sick bastard?

Hmm, I've never thought of it that way before. Maybe Satan is just God's sock puppet.

Of course then there is the Old Testament Satan vs. New Testament Satan. OT Satan was more of a prosecuting attorney type angel that pointed out human flaws for god to see. NT Satan gets into the evil trickster and tempter role.
But if Satan wanted to torture sinners, he would be about as psychotic as God. Imagine that internal struggle. "These people are sinners, I must torture them, but they make Gawd angry so I should reward them, no, I was once an angel, torture them, but Gawd cast me out, I should reward them, they did my bidding when they were alive, so I should reward them" Hopefully Satan is a Libertarian and only punishes sinners that violated the rights of other people, and he would reward the victimless sinners.

[Max560]

Originally posted by evildave
Well, you see, God and Satan were best friends. But then some kryptonite fell from the sky and made satan bald... oh, and EVIL. Then they made the Hall of Justice and Barney said "Let's IMAGINE..."

From the Book of Dave Chapter 2, Verse 6.

Fast paced, but difficult to follow all the characters.

:)

[Max560]

Originally posted by GrapeJ713


Hopefully Satan is a Libertarian and only punishes sinners that violated the rights of other people, and he would reward the victimless sinners.

Conversely, if you go to heaven, do you get differential quality and quantity of paradise depending on if you were merely good, or Really good?

Feeding the needy gets you into club med, whereas living a life without trying to hurt anyone gets you a part time job as a file clerk, and a nice apartment.

[K-W]

Well if Satan has given up hope of ever getting out of hell, than I can imagine hes pretty ill tempered and has alot of time on his hands.

[Crossbow]

Max, I think that your question is one of those that shows just how people can get so wrapped up in their religion, that they wind up loosing sight of the details.

I for one, like to carry it a bit further and point out why is it that Christians make such a big deal out of heavan and hell?

After all, there are not really such concepts in the Jewish, Muslim, or Buddist faiths, so why are the Christians so hung up on this deal?

Ugh!

[Frostbite]

Christian propaganda wants us to think Satan is evil when he's actually quite a nice guy, if you don't mind the hooves.

[FireGarden]

On a somewhat related topic....

There's a type of story line that's always bothered me.

(The Charlie Daniels band)


The devil went down to Georgia,
He was looking for a soul to steal.
He was in a bind, cause he was way behind,
He was looking to make a deal.

[...]

"I'll bet a fiddle of gold against your soul because I think I'm better than you"

And when he loses, the devil hands over a fiddle of gold!!!

WHY??
He's the devil!!!
He doesn't have to keep his word!!!! :mad:

And then he does it again in Crossroads, that movie where the the Karate Kid mimes the blues while Steve Vai pretends he can't play his own tunes. When KK wins, the devil sticks to his contract and holds up his side of the bargain.

STOP IT!!!! :mad:

[A_Feeble_Mind]

Originally posted by GoodPropaganda
On a somewhat related topic....

There's a type of story line that's always bothered me.


And when he loses, the devil hands over a fiddle of gold!!!

WHY??
He's the devil!!!
He doesn't have to keep his word!!!! :mad:

And then he does it again in Crossroads, that movie where the the Karate Kid mimes the blues while Steve Vai pretends he can't play his own tunes. When KK wins, the devil sticks to his contract and holds up his side of the bargain.

STOP IT!!!! :mad:

The devil needs to keep his end of the agreement to maintain his credibility. If he betrays the person who wins the bet, no one else would bother making deals with the devil anymore.

On the contrary, what the devil would probably do is publicize the win and the payout and write it off as a marketing/ advertising expense. Which is why you never hear the story about the numerous times the devil wins; just like a casino, he only advertises the big payout. ;)

[FireGarden]

Thanks, A_Feeble_Mind

It seems so obvious now that you've said it. :D

[CWL]

Satan's motivation?

Apparently it's rock n' roll (http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0034/0034_01.asp).

:rolleyes:

[Dancing David]

The modern devil seems to have two sources:
1. Xian contact with the cults of Pan and Cernernous, who are kind of like the Viagra of religion.

2. The need to counter the Xian arguement that god is all powerful and good at the same time. He is all powerful and good, but evil exist therefore god likes evil, ooops, lets blame it on the devil.

Peace
dancing David

[aggle_rithm]

According to C.S. Lewis in the "Screwtape Letters", Satan and all his demons feed on the souls of the damned. The more evil the souls, the more crunchy and tasty.

[jimlintott]

Satan? That's the Christian God of Evil isn't it.

[justsaygnosis]

Originally posted by GrapeJ713


Hmm, I've never thought of it that way before. Maybe Satan is just God's sock puppet.



One thing's for certain...'satan' is man's best scapegoat.
It's sooooooo easy to say...'the devil made me do it'.

[Max560]

Originally posted by CWL
Satan's motivation?

Apparently it's rock n' roll (http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0034/0034_01.asp).

:rolleyes:

How positively creepy....

[ImpyTimpy]

But if God is all powerful, and Satan is the cause of evil, doesn't that mean that Satan is equally powerful to God?

Originally posted by Dancing David
The modern devil seems to have two sources:
1. Xian contact with the cults of Pan and Cernernous, who are kind of like the Viagra of religion.

2. The need to counter the Xian arguement that god is all powerful and good at the same time. He is all powerful and good, but evil exist therefore god likes evil, ooops, lets blame it on the devil.

Peace
dancing David

[marxist2]

You are so stupid atheists that you think that there is a satan. Satan is a myth, along with all that skepticism that you peddle about so that you can cohere children onto abusive relationships.

[ImpyTimpy]

Could you translate that from kook speak to english?

Originally posted by marxist2
You are so stupid atheists that you think that there is a satan. Satan is a myth, along with all that skepticism that you peddle about so that you can cohere children onto abusive relationships.

[marxist2]

Originally posted by ImpyTimpy
Could you translate that from kook speak to english?



It's not kook speak, it's perfect english. I do not even know what you mean by "kook speak". I mean what I said. Atheists are all pedophiles, and they use their gibberish to get kids to come to them.

[ImpyTimpy]

Wow, the kook makes SOME sense with that gem of a statement.. Allow me to respond:

Ok, so your claim is all athiests are paedophiles (note the proper spelling) right? Can you back up the claim or are you just making it up? Cause if it's the latter, I hear people like you are the actual paedophiles, trying to divert attention away from your activities by blaming innocent parties. See, anyone can make a claim.. Proving it is the trick...

Originally posted by marxist2


It's not kook speak, it's perfect english. I do not even know what you mean by "kook speak". I mean what I said. Atheists are all pedophiles, and they use their gibberish to get kids to come to them.

[marxist2]

I don't need to prove anything to you atheist. I know it, and everyone who knows anything knows it.

[ImpyTimpy]

I know it too, and everyone who knows anything knows it too.

Originally posted by marxist2
I don't need to prove anything to you atheist. I know it, and everyone who knows anything knows it.

[Hegel]

Originally posted by marxist2
I don't need to prove anything to you atheist. I know it, and everyone who knows anything knows it.

Who knows it? Who knows anything? I'm inclined to think of you as a complete idiot until you can show me any support for your specious claims.

[thaiboxerken]

Marxist2 is just another religious hate-mongerer that targets atheists as scapegoats. Much like another christian targetted Jews as a scapegoat.

There is no evidence to back-up his claim of all atheists being paedophiles, as we all know. It is just a statement with the soul intent of spreading hatred towards atheists.

Also, his intent is to divert our attention from his stupid, religious beliefs. The mocking of the Satan myths hurts his Jesus myths, so he needs to resort to ad-hominem.

[CWL]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
Marxist2 is just another religious hate-mongerer that targets atheists as scapegoats. Much like another christian targetted Jews as a scapegoat.

There is no evidence to back-up his claim of all atheists being paedophiles, as we all know. It is just a statement with the soul intent of spreading hatred towards atheists.

Also, his intent is to divert our attention from his stupid, religious beliefs. The mocking of the Satan myths hurts his Jesus myths, so he needs to resort to ad-hominem. ¨

I thought Marxists were supposed to be atheists? "Opium for the masses" and all that.

[mindless]

Atheists are all pedophiles

marxist2 i'd just like to point out the obvious fact that everyone when they are born are all Atheists without exception, even you. We are all born without belief in God hence Atheistic.

So according to your logic, everyone on the planet has at some point in their life been a paedophile, even you.

[Peter Jenkins]

Originally posted by aggle_rithm
According to C.S. Lewis in the "Screwtape Letters", Satan and all his demons feed on the souls of the damned. The more evil the souls, the more crunchy and tasty.

I guess that makes me a bit like an M&M
A nice crunchy shell of fornication, heresy and blasphemy, with a generally soft centre.


Originally posted by some D*ckhead
You are so stupid atheists that you think that there is a satan. Satan is a myth, along with all that skepticism that you peddle about so that you can cohere children onto abusive relationships.

Atheists don't believe in Satan, Do you understand that? Atheists don't subscribe to these silly mythologies, but we sometimes play these thought games, just for fun.

Skepticism is a method of going thyrough life, not being decieved by every conman psychic, crystal healer, homeopathist, etc, ad nauseum, etc. It can be summed up in two simple words - "prove it"

The suggestion of paedophilia is a filthy ad hominem from a petty minded fool, who can't think of a proper argument.

Peter


Peter

[Gregor]

The Bible's authors got it wrong. Hell is full of alcohol, great parties, sex, no singing of psalms, and etc. If you are good on earth, when you die, you get to go to hell. If you are bad on earth, you have to go to heaven and deal with prayers, singing 'rock of ages,' and no fun at all.

[aggle_rithm]

Originally posted by marxist2

Atheists are all pedophiles,

Yes, but are all pedophiles athiests? I guess I don't understand the taxonomy here...

....and they use their gibberish to get kids to come to them.

That explains some of the infantile posts in this forum.

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by marxist2
I don't need to prove anything to you atheist. I know it, and everyone who knows anything knows it.

So essentially you are saying that you are a pedophile and that you are an atheist and therefore you are ' everyone who knows it', IE only pedophiles know about pedophilia.

It that you JK? You are off your form if it is.

Peace
dancing David

[Yahzi]

In the Islamic tradition, Satan loves God so much that there is no room in his heart for to love anything else. When God makes man and commands the angels to love his new, greater creation, Satan cannot: and so God throws him out. He is sustained in Hell by the memory of the echo of God's voice. And of course he hates mankind for coming between him and God.

The Christian version, where Satan rebels against God for sheer power, makes no sense at all. Why would he hate mankind? Why would he torture people that agreed with him and chose him as a ruler over God? Why would he rebel against God and try to sieze power in the first place - does he know something about this alleged omnipotence that we don't, or is he just plain stupid?

None of these religions can make God's actions coherent (why would God allow Satan to afflict the people he ordered Satan to exalt), but at least the Islamic version of Satan's character is coherent. Xianity melded the Arianistic (spelling?) idea of twin gods of good and evil into the Jewish idea of God and his chief prosecutor, without paying much attention to the background story.

As for the devil having to live up to his contract, this reflects the true spirit of Xianity. Consider that the Bible is often presented as a contract with mankind that God cannot break. Those words on paper are capable of binding and controlling supernatural beings of immense power. Hey, sounds just like a magic spell, doesn't it? Not a coincidence at all.

[Melissa Johnson]

Don't you know there ain't no devil, that's just God when He's drunk...

--Tom Waits

[GrapeJ713]

Originally posted by marxist2
It's not kook speak, it's perfect english. I do not even know what you mean by "kook speak". I mean what I said. Atheists are all pedophiles, and they use their gibberish to get kids to come to them.

Obviously, english is not your native tounge. You have way too many spelling and grammatical errors to be a native speaker, writer and reader. My grammar and spelling aren't perfect, but at lease people can understand the gist of most of my sentences.

You are so stupid atheists that you think that there is a satan.
Most posts to this thread are about the nature of satan. If you weren't such subliterate kook you would understand. Athiests don't believe in god or satan. Most skeptics I know are athiests.

Satan is a myth, along with all that skepticism that you peddle about so that you can cohere children onto abusive relationships.
Skepticism is defined as a method, attitude and doctrine in the dictionary, it cannot be myth, unless it was part of a morallity tale written down in a big book long ago. Cohere isn't a word used very much in modern english, and I don't think you are using it correctly. Priests and other religious whackos are the ones making news for physically and sexually abusing children. And the bible endorses physical child abuse.

So what is your point and what is your native tounge?

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by GrapeJ713

Most posts to this thread are about the nature of satan. If you weren't such subliterate kook you would understand. Athiests don't believe in god or satan. Most skeptics I know are athiests.



Many theists want to assert that even atheists believe in "god" and "satan" if we talk about them. Strange, though, that if someone talks to them about how cool the XMEN are that they don't assert those people believe that the XMEN exist. Hmmm.

[FireGarden]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken


Many theists want to assert that even atheists believe in "god" and "satan" if we talk about them. Strange, though, that if someone talks to them about how cool the XMEN are that they don't assert those people believe that the XMEN exist. Hmmm.

By Jupiter, but the Boy Wonder had a really weird religion.
I remember him saying "Holy flypaper, Batman!"

The man who would be King (Sean Connery and Michael Caine): "God's sainted trousers!"
(I never understood that one)

There must be more, including the ubiquitous "Holy Tish" (Or somesuch)

[Yahzi]

marxist2
that you can cohere children
You mean "coerce," you semi-literate, self-absorbed, wretchedly lonely, stupid little man.

Just trying to be helpful.

:)

[c4ts]

Originally posted by marxist2
I don't need to prove anything to you atheist. I know it, and everyone who knows anything knows it.

Move over Interesting Ian, because we have this month's Bill Hoyt's Logic Award winner!

You've managed to create more logical fallacies than sentences.

1. To say "everyone who knows anything knows it" is an appeal to popularity (http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/pop.htm)! Just because it's widely held to be true doesn't mean it is.

2. Using "everyone who knows anything" to support your claim is calling on an anonymous authority (http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/anon.htm)!

3. Your refusal to provide proof to the atheist on the account of your ad hominem accusation that they already know it is attacking the person (http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/attack.htm)!

4. By denying evidence to support your statement, you are committing a fallacy of exclusion (http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/exclus.htm)!

5. Your argument that because you and everybody else knows it, it must be true is saying that knowledge causes something to be true. That is the wrong direction (http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/wrong.htm), because things that are knowable are not necessarily true, and that which is true remains so whether or not you know it. Truth does not come from knowedge, knowledge is gained from truth.

[GrapeJ713]

Originally posted by Yahzi
marxist2

You mean "coerce," you semi-literate, self-absorbed, wretchedly lonely, stupid little man.

Just trying to be helpful.
:)
It's an actual word, I looked it up.

Main Entry: co·here
Pronunciation: kO-'hir
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): co·hered; co·her·ing
Etymology: Latin cohaerEre, from co- + haerEre to stick
Date: 1598
intransitive senses
1 a : to hold together firmly as parts of the same mass; broadly : STICK, ADHERE b : to display cohesion of plant parts
2 : to hold together as a mass of parts that cohere
3 a : to become united in principles, relationships, or interests b : to be logically or aesthetically consistent
transitive senses : to cause (parts or components) to cohere
synonym see STICK

It's just an old word not used in modern english much. That is why I think he's not a native english speaker. Sometimes when you learn a language and look up a word in a foreign language to english dictionary you might choose a word that looks right but isn't used much.

[c4ts]

So pedophiles stick children to one another? With what, Krazy Glue?