KY Governor's Response to ID Criticism

[prewitt81]

A friend of mine recently sent a letter to our Governor, Ernie Fletcher, which can be read at http://www.brentnorris.net/blog/?p=183

Much to my surprise, Governor Fletcher (or perhaps his PR department) responded. His response is also on my friend's blog: http://www.brentnorris.net/blog/?p=191

Apparently, skeptics, atheists, agnostics, etc., fail to "accept [. . .] self-evident truths that nearly 90% of the population understands [sic]". By opposing ID, we "undermine the foundation of our nation."

Am I wrong to be outraged?

[AnotherSillyAlias]

A friend of mine recently sent a letter to our Governor, Ernie Fletcher, which can be read at http://www.brentnorris.net/blog/?p=183

Much to my surprise, Governor Fletcher (or perhaps his PR department) responded. His response is also on my friend's blog: http://www.brentnorris.net/blog/?p=191

Apparently, skeptics, atheists, agnostics, etc., fail to "accept [. . .] self-evident truths that nearly 90% of the population understands [sic]". By opposing ID, we "undermine the foundation of our nation."

Am I wrong to be outraged?

If you were to spend your time getting outraged at stupid polititians, (or those more interested in maintaining their voting base), you would have little time for anything else.

[TragicMonkey]

My "States I'm Willing To Live In" list has just gotten shorter.

[Zep]

I would respond by asking this person what "truths" are they that he believes 90% of the population understand. If it's foundation on Christianity then perhaps a response with whatever Ammendment or Constitution it is that describes the separation of church and state. Obviously he thinks that if he believes stuff then everyone believes the same stuff. That fallacy has a name too, I seem to recall. In short, he's probably an ignoramus.

[jimlintott]

Dear Mr. Fletcher:

I would like to congratulate you and your fine state of Kentucky for introducing Intelligent Design into your school's curriculum. The reason that I am so happy is that I am a Canadian with two children to worry about. Each time an American state decides to roll back to medieval level education the greater the opportunities for my children and other Canadian children. Every year we hear how bio-technology is going to be big and I think it will. Children who can do science and even understand how antibiotics can make bacteria stronger will have a significant edge over those who think that god did it and that prayer can heal the sick.

Thank you for strengthening the future of my nation by weakening your own.

Sincerely
Jim

edit: Changed viruses to bacteria. Man do I feel stoopid. :blush:

[Zbu]

Dear Mr. Fletcher:

I would like to congratulate you and your fine state of Kentucky for introducing Intelligent Design into your school's curriculum. The reason that I am so happy is that I am a Canadian with two children to worry about. Each time an American state decides to roll back to medieval level education the greater the opportunities for my children and other Canadian children. Every year we hear how bio-technology is going to be big and I think it will. Children who can do science and even understand how antibiotics can make viruses stronger will have a significant edge over those who think that god did it and that prayer can heal the sick.

Thank you for strengthening the future of my nation by weakening your own.

Sincerely
Jim

HA! Good point. Where was it that I read that most manufacturing jobs are leaving the Midwest but going overseas because most states in the South have people who are learning deficient? Not a fair (or wholly inaccurate) generalization, but I highly doubt that ID would really take off if we informed our less enlightened brethren that their children would be working under several highly trained individuals who might not be white God-fearing Christians, but Asian, Indian, Hispanic, and various other nationalities? And that they'll be paid more because they know science and have enough faith in their religion/lack thereof to do both?

It surprises how stupid some Americans are when it comes to globalization. What, do they honestly think that America is really going to be this mythic Number One because we 'won' a war seventy years ago? You have to admire the outright stupidity that goes into this bunch. I would feel sorry for them but I don't have the patience. When they're the ones begging for welfare after they learn having a high school diploma isn't optional (and, alas, only the beginning of getting a livable wage), I suppose we can laugh at them for finally going full circle. Ignorance only gets one so far.

You know, sometimes I feel bad when I rag on the South but I went down there last summer to see a friend of mine and...there are good people down there, but some of them are so rock-stupid it boggles the imagination. I just don't get it at all. Perhaps I shouldn't, perhaps it's just too sad to really fully understand.

[Dr Adequate]

Mmm ... I love being British.

http://www.csuchico.edu/~curban/Images/DarwinTenPoundNote.jpeg

We'll give you all political asylum when the time comes.

[brettDbass]

Dammit, I thought this thread was going to be about lubricant gels...

[RyanRoberts]

Aparrently, Mr Darwins beard makes an excellent security feature.

[Kochanski]

My "States I'm Willing To Live In" list has just gotten shorter.

Me, too. Although it is longer than my "States I will visit" list.

[Kochanski]

Mmm ... I love being British.

http://www.csuchico.edu/~curban/Images/DarwinTenPoundNote.jpeg

We'll give you all political asylum when the time comes.

English money is prettier and classier than American dollars any day, you have that on us definitely. I would certainly enjoy exile in England for many reasons, just hopefully someone will have "cured" PM Tony Blair of his homeopathy notions before that time ;)

[Zbu]

I'm a Doctor Who fan. I'll find a place there. ;)

[Jimbo07]

Your friend is either a liar, constructing the letter for personal reasons, or the governor (or his PR lackey/whoever wrote the letter) is an illiterate biscuit-head. It reads like a criticism of education from a poorly educated composer.

The first reply post in that thread suggested the letter is from lawyers. Having had to read too many legal letters, I'd suggest that not even "C student" lawyers would write that poorly.

Something's wrong here either with your friend... or the government of a state :eek:

I fear that the world's best-armed power is going to fill up with poorly educated individuals. As Zbu opined, the U.S. might not be on top forever. The U.S. is so well-armed, however, that as someone else tries to become number 1, it won't be pretty. :(

[Ducky]

Since 1970, state law specifically allowes public schools to teach, “creationism” in conjunction with the theory of evolution. In 1990, under the landmark Kentucky Education Refore Act, control of curriculum now rests with local districts. I urged school district to utilize this freedom and empower students with all possible considerations regarding the origin of matter and species. It will be up to the teachers and local school officials, however, to make this decision.


This is plain wrong. Since 1986 SCOTUS has decided teaching creationism is unconstitutional. Given the Dover precedent he's playing a bad game of chicken.

[hgc]

Governer Fletcher will go straight from the state house to the big house...

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050906/NEWS0103/509060345/1059/NEWS01

He's also ranks 48th among governers in popularity. I don't know who 49 and 50 are, but they must really, really suck.

[prewitt81]

Your friend is either a liar, constructing the letter for personal reasons, or the governor (or his PR lackey/whoever wrote the letter) is an illiterate biscuit-head. It reads like a criticism of education from a poorly educated composer.

I understand being skeptical, but that's just mean-spirited. I can produce a scanned copy of the letter for you, but then you can claim that I'm a liar who makes fake Kentucky State letterhead, right?

Oh well. I can take the heat.

[HeyLeroy]

Dear Mr. Fletcher:

I would like to congratulate you and your fine state of Kentucky for introducing Intelligent Design into your school's curriculum. The reason that I am so happy is that I am a Canadian with two children to worry about. Each time an American state decides to roll back to medieval level education the greater the opportunities for my children and other Canadian children. Every year we hear how bio-technology is going to be big and I think it will. Children who can do science and even understand how antibiotics can make bacteria stronger will have a significant edge over those who think that god did it and that prayer can heal the sick.

Thank you for strengthening the future of my nation by weakening your own.

Sincerely
Jim

(snip)
Good one. I'm in Windsor, right on the border with Detroit. I've said this myself, just not as well.

[HeyLeroy]

Mmm ... I love being British.

http://www.csuchico.edu/~curban/Images/DarwinTenPoundNote.jpeg

We'll give you all political asylum when the time comes.

That is one pretty bank note. Are they still in circulation? I'd love to get one for my collection....

[brodski]

Mmm ... I love being British.

http://www.csuchico.edu/~curban/Images/DarwinTenPoundNote.jpeg

We'll give you all political asylum when the time comes.

unfortunately, while we may have Darwin on our banknotes, we still have Government funded schools teaching 6 day "special" creationism.

None of that halfarsed ID nonsense in old blighty. :(

[HeyLeroy]

Here in Ontario, We have the Public school board and the 'Separate' (read, Catholic) school board. Funny that the Catholic kids get a better science education than the public school students, eh?

[delphi_ote]

My "States I'm Willing To Live In" list has just gotten shorter.

The fact that Kentucky was on that list in the first place is suprising to me. As a former Cincinnatian, I know that constant vigilance is required to keep those dangerous lunatics on their side of the river. Kentucky: the state the North and South won't claim.

[brodski]

Here in Ontario, We have the Public school board and the 'Separate' (read, Catholic) school board. Funny that the Catholic kids get a better science education than the public school students, eh?

In the UK Our Glorious leader hit on a fantastic idea, why not bring "private sector expertise" into the state school system. So, the Department For Education and Skills (DFES) drew up the "City Academies" scheme, where, in return for putting up a proportion of the running costs of the school (Initially about 10%) the private sector "sponsor" would get to run the school pretty much like their own personal business, they could hire and fire staff, set pay scales and, most importantly set the curriculum.
A used card dealer in Gateshead (North East England) has set up a school known as "Emmanuel college" which gives a cursory overview of "Darwinism" and then proceeds to indoctrinate the kids in fairytales, instead of reality.
Now here's the killer, many of the "sponsors" of the city academies where, after sighing up to the scheme, reluctant to pony up the cash- the whole City academies programme was at risk. The cities academies programme was pretty much the only domestic policy which TB takes an interest in, and he's evangelical about it. So DfES hit on a cunning wheeze, they said that the "sponsors" could offer their services, or other payments in kind, in lue of some, or all of the financial support that they originally offered. In the meantime, the city academies, being almost totally run by private sponsors, with virtually no public oversight (especially with regards to curricula) receive more funding from the public purse than comparable state schools.
Kids science education is being sacrificed for Blair vanity project, and it's costing us more of those Darwin portraits to indoctrinate kids into these fairytales, than it would to actually help them understand the world in which they live. :(

[Jimbo07]

I understand being skeptical, but that's just mean-spirited.

Hmmm... in retrospect, I wrote a couple of snarky posts in different threads. I must have been having a bad day.

So I over-qualified my post, and you didn't pay enough attention to the governor and/or his lackey being illiterate biscuit-heads. Everything about the letter was poor. The composition was poor. The spelling was poor. The content was poor. Even when I don't agree with a particular politician, I still expect their official correspondence to be reasonably well written. As well, the letter was not, despite the first poster in that forum, written by lawyers. No wonder insane notions like teaching ID in a science class are floating around :rolleyes:

[Moon-Spinner]

That is one pretty bank note. Are they still in circulation? I'd love to get one for my collection....

Sure... Just hit "Print Screen" :D

[Rat]

That is one pretty bank note. Are they still in circulation? I'd love to get one for my collection....
They certainly are in circulation. Probably the most common note in circulation here after the fiver (with Elizabeth Fry on the back, I think). The reason for Charles Darwin, though, as has been noted, is that his beard makes forgery more difficult than the previous £10 incumbent. Still, the idea of Darwin on US notes would be quite comical, now I think of it; it would be a brave politician who suggested it.

Cheers,
Rat.

[geni]

Mmm ... I love being British.


You know that under UK law that image is illegal?

[geni]

They certainly are in circulation. Probably the most common note in circulation here after the fiver (with Elizabeth Fry on the back, I think). The reason for Charles Darwin, though, as has been noted, is that his beard makes forgery more difficult than the previous £10 incumbent.

That has been denied by the Bank of England.

[JamesM]

That has been denied by the Bank of England.
After all, Elizabeth Fry's beard-line is nowhere near as heavy.

[RSLancastr]

People, it's Kentucky.

Kentucky.

Aparrently, Mr Darwins beard makes an excellent security feature.I know that mine does as well.

[prewitt81]

The Bluegrass State is not so bad. I'm not a big fan of the Kentucky Education Reform Act, but that's probably the worst of it (in my opinion - I coach quizbowl and teaching the test doesn't help kids learn). We definitely have our backward parts, but I think any state does.

That said, things seemed to be going fine for us, but then out of nowhere we elected a Republican church minister as Governor. Now most of our time is spent not passing a budget or trying to lower health care benefits for educators to a point where we'd envy convenience-store workers.

[Zbu]

I fear that the world's best-armed power is going to fill up with poorly educated individuals. As Zbu opined, the U.S. might not be on top forever. The U.S. is so well-armed, however, that as someone else tries to become number 1, it won't be pretty. :(

Yeah, but it does take rocket scientists for the upkeep and creation of more weapons. How far do you think we're going to get threatening the world when we don't have people to fire the things? And even if it's automated, the world isn't just force anymore. If gas prices hit $5 here, things are going to get hairy really quick and bombing those affecting that won't solve anything. We've been one-upped in a most horrific way.

[diablo581]

Your friend is either a liar, constructing the letter for personal reasons, or the governor (or his PR lackey/whoever wrote the letter) is an illiterate biscuit-head. It reads like a criticism of education from a poorly educated composer.

I would have to say, as said friend, that I am not a liar. This is (to the best of my typing ability) the exact paper letter that I got. I can't provide any information, though, on if Fletcher's head is or is not made of biscuits. :)

[delphi_ote]

I would have to say, as said friend, that I am not a liar. This is (to the best of my typing ability) the exact paper letter that I got. I can't provide any information, though, on if Fletcher's head is or is not made of biscuits. :)

Despite your Kentuckian status, I welcome you to the board! :D

[Spidey13]

Ah, one more Kentuckian added to the skeptical ranks. That makes...uh...about five of us that I know of. We're getting there...sorta...not really...some day...I hope. Man, I hate this place.

Oh well. Welcome aboard.

[Art Vandelay]

I would respond by asking this person what "truths" are they that he believes 90% of the population understand. Apparently, he believes that to reject ID is to reject God (in whom 90% of Americans believe).

Me, too. Although it is longer than my "States I will visit" list.So there are states in which you are willing to live, but not visit?

You know that under UK law that image is illegal?Is it actual size? I guess that depends on one's resolution. I've read that in the US, if you reproduce a bill at a scale which differs from the original by more than 20%, the presumption is that you lack fradulent intent.

[Outhere]

Each year I can't wait to watch the Triple Crown races, starting with the Kentucky Derby. I don't bet on the outcome, however, because I know a horse's brain is probably smaller in size than a grapefruit; a horse runs because it's all he knows to do. A horse is incapable of serious contemplation. Sounds rather like a Kentucky politician, doesn't it?

[Zbu]

You know, I'm rereading this thread for a laugh and I just recalled the old Hunter Thompson article "The Kentucky Derby is Decedent and Depraved' in which he goes on and on about the futility of the American Dream and laments about the irony of this event that is full of animal eugenics being watched by people who are probably case number one of people who should probably have their breeding controlled. All fascist and eugenics tendencies aside, it is interesting to compare and contrast this viewpoint with the whole IDiot struggle to set this country back.

[Zbu]

Browser failure/double post, sorry.

[Jimbo07]

I would have to say, as said friend, that I am not a liar. This is (to the best of my typing ability) the exact paper letter that I got. I can't provide any information, though, on if Fletcher's head is or is not made of biscuits. :)

Once again, my intent was not to unerringly call ayone a liar. I was just so surprised by the poor quality of the letter. Perhaps the governor hired a child as a summer student?

[delphi_ote]

Once again, my intent was not to unerringly call ayone a liar. I was just so surprised by the poor quality of the letter. Perhaps the governor hired a child as a summer student?

Have you seen the way Kentucky is run? It wouldn't suprise me if the governor wrote it himself.

[Numenaster]

And here I thought Texas had the official position of Bad Government Laboratory for the Entire Country.

[delphi_ote]

And here I thought Texas had the official position of Bad Government Laboratory for the Entire Country.

Nope. New Mexico (http://www.lanl.gov/) has that dubious honor pretty much clinched.