Donating Blood to the Red Cross

[IIRichard]

I am heartened that Randi is doing well and applaud any and all efforts to help him and others undergoing surgery, etc. I would dearly love to donate blood but the Red Cross will not take mine.

My problem is with the constant calls from the Red Cross for blood donations, constant alerts about how low the supply is and the RC's general attitude.

I am a monogamous male married for nearly 35 years. I have high blood pressure and slightly elevated cholesterol levels. I am treated for both. I also have a genetic condition known as hemochromatosis, a condition in which the body is unable to regulate iron take-up from the gut. Left untreated, this can lead to live-threatening problems in the liver, heart, pancreas and other organs.

The treatment is fairly simple, the patient gives blood on a regular schedule. I'm phlebotomized every eight weeks. I have to pay to have this done and my blood is treated as medical waste. If I told the Red Cross of my condition, they would refuse my offer to donate. It is immaterial whether my blood pressure is a bit high or my pulse a bit fast - I have to be bled to live.

Hemochromatosis is considered to be the most common genetic disease, affecting perhaps 1 in 400 people. The disease usually manifests itself later in life so not all people who have the disease are treated for it. Even so, there are hundreds of thousands of people whose blood is drawn every month or two (or even more frequently in serve cases) and thrown out.

So, I know there are plenty of people with medical training in the JREF forums. Any thoughts, comments?

IIRichard - dying to donate

[Cecil]

A quick wikipedia (is that a verb?) tells me that the basic physiology of this disease is that cells are fooled into thinking the body is in a constant state of iron depletion, causing them to perpetually increase their iron stores. It seems to have everything to do with proteins expressed on the surface of liver cells, and nothing to do with your blood/blood cells.

On what grounds, then, would the Red Cross refuse your donation?

[Ririon]

On what grounds, then, would the Red Cross refuse your donation?
And if you didn't tell them, would you actually get paid for the treatment you now have to pay for? AND help people in need of blood?

[IIRichard]

A quick wikipedia (is that a verb?) tells me that the basic physiology of this disease is that cells are fooled into thinking the body is in a constant state of iron depletion, causing them to perpetually increase their iron stores. It seems to have everything to do with proteins expressed on the surface of liver cells, and nothing to do with your blood/blood cells.

On what grounds, then, would the Red Cross refuse your donation?

Actually, it's the cells of the villi that are at fault. They're replaced fairly rapidly and if the cell didn't have my defective chromosomes, the new cells would have the "Take up iron" switch left off when there is plenty of iron in my blood. My cells don't recognize that there is plenty of iron in my blood. I haven't checked the Wiki entry on this but WebMD has good info.

I have no idea why the Red Cross won't take my blood when they continually claim that there are acute shortages of blood.

IIRichard

[IIRichard]

And if you didn't tell them, would you actually get paid for the treatment you now have to pay for? AND help people in need of blood?

The Red Cross will not pay for blood. The only advantage to me would be that they would bleed me for free. The advantage to society is that there would be a lot more blood available.

There are a number of reasons why some donors are turned away, infectious disease for instance. In my, and millions of other's cases, the reason is not stated.

IIRichard

[Soapy Sam]

In Britain , we are never paid to donate blood. the process is entirely voluntary.
(You do get free tea and biscuits though.)
I once donated in Canada. Didn't get paid there either. Cheap colonial devils- chip off the old block!

I just hit 50 pints (units, whatever). I can't imagine why anyone would NOT donate blood. It's like communal life insurance. Herd immunity.

In the UK , we donate to the NHS Blood Transfusion Service, not the Red Cross. The regs. have tightened over time-(AIDS, CJD, etc, etc) for example you cannot donate if you have visited the USA in the last 2 months! (Due to a virus of one sort- I don't recall which, Green Rocky Mt. Monkey Bush Fever or some such).

I know squat about this blood problem you have. It seems a shame that the blood can't be used for testing or something if not for transfusion. Ye gods, if you must dump blood, do it yourself- this is not rocket science, you only need a sterile hollow needle, a bag of about 1/2 litre capacity and a bandaid!

By the way, my cholesterol is so high it's off scale in most tests. Always has been, even when I ran 5 miles every day. Humans vary. If I'm on an operating table and I need 17 pints of O+ or I croak, do I care if some of it has high cholesterol? I don't care if it's GREEN! I just want it NOW!

[Dogdoctor]

You might check again since there seems to be some changes recently along these lines.
http://www.bloodcenters.org/donating/hemochromatosis.htm
http://www.redcross.org/services/biomed/0,1082,0_557_,00.html#hem
http://www.fda.gov/cber/blood/hemochromvar.htm

[Ducky]

The red cross bothered me for months and months after my surgery to remove the tumor in my spine until I finally got someone to listen to me when I told them to mark me as ineligible to donate. The conversation went like this:

"This is (so and so) from the Red Cross and we were wondering if you could come in for an annual donation?"

"Okay, I will say this again, though I have told someone at your organization on at least 3 instances before this: I am a cancer patient, the cancer is Solitary Plasacytoma which means it begins in white platelet cells. I do not think I am eligible to donate, nor do I think it would be ethical to do so. Please remove me from your list."

"Oh, well let me ask the doctor here. Can you hold?"

"Fine."

After 10 minutes...

"Okay, thank you sir, we will remove you from our lists, and mark your file as ineligible."

"Forgive me if I tell you I've heard that before, but thank you."

Never heard from them since. Now why would they pester the crap out of me when I repeatedly tell them I should not donate, and yet they will not take blood from others who are healthy and able? For example a gay man who has been in a monogamous relationship for over 10 years is ineligible. Richard is apparently ineligible (though I don't see on what grounds, but that's ok, I'm not a doctor) as is my friend Caitlin who lives in London and spent time in Africa and Eastern Europe.

That confounds me.

[epepke]

I am heartened that Randi is doing well and applaud any and all efforts to help him and others undergoing surgery, etc. I would dearly love to donate blood but the Red Cross will not take mine.

Yeah, this is kind of annoying. I couldn't donate blood for a couple of years because I had high bilirubin once. This was back in the days before Hepatitis C was identified, and it was considered Non-A, Non-B Hepatitis. After, I think, three years, I got a notice that since I hadn't seroconverted, I was OK.

I haven't had much desire to donate since then. But that's OK, because I had donated about three gallons over the years.

Anyway, most of what the Red Cross does with donated blood is to sell it and make money.

[casebro]

They won't take my AB+, because I have high blood pressure. What's the major side effect of donating blood? It LOWERS your blood pressure! Make sense to you?

[eri]

They won't take mine either (damn hereditary anemia). Actually, probably just as well, since I hate needles and don't like seeing my own blood. I'm a big wimp when it comes to stuff like that.

[Soapy Sam]

Anyway, most of what the Red Cross does with donated blood is to sell it and make money.

Got a source for that last?

[casebro]

Anyway, most of what the Red Cross does with donated blood is to sell it and make money.

Probably true for blood through any source. Any out of date blood is not just dumped in the sink- it is used to make many blood product- platelets, Gamma Globulin, things like that. And I suppose the same hols for lots of the 'defective' donations too. Aand, the good stuff is paid for by the patient too, or his insurer.

And, if you have friends donate to your account, the Red Cross still charges for all the 'processing', hundreds of dollars per pint. I think the 'donation' amounts to a $32 discount.

Overall, the Red Cross is a very lucrative business. The head of our county group was getting paid $300,000- until that fact hit the newspapers.

[screw_dog]

I really hate needles and blood but I had an ex-girlfriend who was a medical student. She convinced me to donate blood and I used to go every month. This lasted for about a year until the Red Cross noticed how good I was at donating and they moved me to donating plasma.

This meant that instead of taking 5 - 10 minutes to pump out a bag of blood (believe me, I tried to get it over with as fast as possible), I then moved to a 45 minute procedure where my blood was pumped out, the plasma extracted and then it was pumped back into my veins.

I was finally saved by Mad Cow Disease. Since I'd spent 3 of my formative years in England I was considered ineligable to donate. You have no idea how happy I was when I found that out!

[joobie]

the red cross used to pester me constantly with phone calls tlike "there's a hospitalized baby who desperately needs your blood type!"

when you get to the donation center and there are 50 people there for the same baby you start to wonder if maybe they lied to you.

otoh they have successfully infected me with the irrational fear that if i do not donate there won't be enough of my blood type available if i ever need it, so off i go every 60 days or whatever the limit is.

[IIRichard]

snip................

I know squat about this blood problem you have. It seems a shame that the blood can't be used for testing or something if not for transfusion. Ye gods, if you must dump blood, do it yourself- this is not rocket science, you only need a sterile hollow needle, a bag of about 1/2 litre capacity and a bandaid!
snip................

Let's see, I put a tourniquet on my arm one-handed, guide aroughly 12 gague needle into a vien (also one-handed) and let the blood flow into pickle jar.

Let me know when you've done it and I might try ;)

IIRichard

[Soapy Sam]

Hey- child's play. I removed my own spleen once, using homoeopathic accupuncture as anaesthesia.

Putting it back was a bugger.

I was pulling your leg just the teeniest bit.

[casebro]

Let's see, I put a tourniquet on my arm one-handed, guide aroughly 12 gague needle into a vien (also one-handed) and let the blood flow into pickle jar.

IIRichard

Druggies do it all the time. But medical personnel are not one of their options.

[rjh01]

The red cross do not pay you for your blood because when they did a lot of poor people would donate an excessive amount of blood under many names. This put their own health at risk. Plus the blood had a greater chance of carrying some decease.

[Ririon]

The red cross do not pay you for your blood because when they did a lot of poor people would donate an excessive amount of blood under many names. This put their own health at risk. Plus the blood had a greater chance of carrying some decease.
Makes sense. That would explain the american popular culture references to donating blood for money. In Norway you get some blood-donor gifts like branded coffee mugs and t-shirts. Are there any institutions in the world now that pay blood donors?

[ranson]

There are private blood banks and plasma centers that still pay. You mostly see them in larger urban areas.

[ChristineR]

They won't take mine because I'm German-Scottish. I have a very sallow complexion--a nurse decided I was jaundiced after a 15 second examination and put my name on an excluded list.

[Ririon]

There are private blood banks and plasma centers that still pay. You mostly see them in larger urban areas.
I take it that means urban areas in the USA. How much can you expect to get paid for a blood donation there?

[Morwen]

I donate as often as I can. I was donating while I lived in the US, then came the mad cow scare thingie and since I'd lived in Europe for a significant amount of time, I was unable to.

I don't enjoy it, but hey, I'm O-, and they're always asking for O- blood. It's not that bad, especially in the US. They were really great, I barely noticed the needle, and then I got to pick the color of the band-aid at all.

Yeah, well, I'm easily pleased.

[IIRichard]

I take it that means urban areas in the USA. How much can you expect to get paid for a blood donation there?

I don't believe that any centers pay for donations any longer. Thirty or so years ago there were, mostly in urban centers. Some fraction of the paid donors were people who were most likely to carry untreated infectious diseases, street people if you will.

It is my understanding that the FDA will not allow the use of blood products that come from paid donations to be used in humans.

IIRichard

[TriangleMan]

I have been donating blood every three months, the Red Cross calls me when it is time for the next appointment. While I am a carrier of the hemochromatosis gene (my father had hemochromatosis) I have not developed the disease as far as I know. I've disclosed that fact to the Red Cross in Canada or Bermuda and neither refused me as a donor.

In Bermuda they will not accept blood from someone who has lived in the UK longer than 6 months between something like 1980-1998, probably due to Mad Cow worries. This drastically reduced the number of eligible donors here so I know that when the Red Cross here says they are short of blood they mean it.

[ranson]

I've been wondering why the double red cell donation is getting pushed so hard around here. In the USA, you're eligible to donate every 56 days for a normal, whole blood donation. Double red donation stretches that to 112 days, but I can't really figure out the math on why that's advantageous to the Red Cross. Assuming a 112-day period beginning on a donation date, a normal donor would end up giving 3 units of red cells, 3 units of plasma, and 3 units of platlets. A double red donor would give . . . 4 units of red cells. I asked some of the nurses the last time I went in, and none of them knew any reason why this was particularly advantageous to the Red Cross.

Anyone happen to know?

[drkitten]

I've been wondering why the double red cell donation is getting pushed so hard around here.

One key aspect that you may be missing is that most people don't donate to any particular
schedule. If you were only going to donate twice a year anyway (or even less often), then they might
as well get as much out of you at each visit as possible.

[Soapy Sam]

They won't take mine because I'm German-Scottish.

I have this image of a recipient leaping off the operating table, drinking 12 litres of lager, a bottle of whisky and invading Poland while playing the bagpipes.

Clearly the Red Cross are taking no chances.

I wonder how much consistency there is in the various nations ' restrictions. I used to be banned when I worked in Saudi Arabia, because there is about 100m2 up near the Shatt-el-Arab which was malarial until someone built a refinery on it.

[ranson]

One key aspect that you may be missing is that most people don't donate to any particular
schedule. If you were only going to donate twice a year anyway (or even less often), then they might
as well get as much out of you at each visit as possible.

I understand that, and I understand that red cells are generally the most important component of a donation. I'm just wondering at the relative value of one unit of red cells versus a unit of plasma and a unit of platelets. Give that they know exactly how often I donate (I've only mnissed once in the last three and an half years, due to being on antibiotics), my scenario above becomes one unit of red cells versus three units each of plasma and platelets.

Also, I don't get why two units now and two units four months from now helps the supply more than a unit now, a unit two months from now, and another unit two months from then. Given that red cell shelf life is so short, wouldn't spreading the donations out over time (assuming a regular donator) be more to their advantage?

Edited because I can't spell on three hours' sleep.

[drkitten]

Give that they know exactly how often I donate ....

Somehow, I rather doubt that their overall priorities are set in terms of how often individual people donate. I suspect it's more in the form of a general mandate from above.

[chulbert]

The red cross do not pay you for your blood because when they did a lot of poor people would donate an excessive amount of blood under many names. This put their own health at risk. Plus the blood had a greater chance of carrying some decease. While this may be true, the primary reason the Red Cross does not pay for blood is that it has an overall negative impact on the number of donations. A lot of people donate blood because it's an act of charity that makes them feel good, something that is lost if you offer payment.

[Ririon]

While this may be true, the primary reason the Red Cross does not pay for blood is that it has an overall negative impact on the number of donations. A lot of people donate blood because it's an act of charity that makes them feel good, something that is lost if you offer payment.
That's interesting. Any economy nerds reading this? Are there any economic models that take into account this kind of behaviour? That there are things people would rather do without getting paid in any way? Sexual "favours" come to mind, but aside from that... :)

[epepke]

Got a source for that last?

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_379_,00.html

Just what is wrong with you people? You turn on and off your skepticism as if it were a wall switch.

[Jas]

I would donate blood, were I eligible. Unfortunately, piercings, tattoos, etc.

The Canadian Blood Service are total wankers if you're a gay male though. Or if you had a 'homosexual experience' 30 years ago. A friend of mine has actually filed a complaint with the human right tribunal in BC that's going through.