Student Teaching: Am I Supposed to be THIS miserable?

[slingblade]

Hi, folks;

I don't post on this forum topic often, but I'm having such a hard time and really need some advice from those who have been there. I hope I might ask for a moment or two of time, and a little help, please?

This is a long story, but I'd like to try to be brief, without leaving out important details. If anything needs clarifying, just ask.

I'm 47 last Saturday, female, and in my internship at a public high school, teaching English: composition 11, mythology, and Am lit II.

I'm not liking it much, at all.

First, I have to tell you about me. I'm trying to be factual, not to brag. I'm fairly intelligent, highly retentive of visual info, and also highly sensitive. If I get too stressed and have a bad day, my eyes "leak." It's crying, though it's not active crying. I don't mean to cry. I don't want to cry. I try very hard not to cry. I cry anyway. Not that I boo-hoo and sob--I don't make a sound. My eyes and nose get red, the tears start flowing, and they can't be turned off at will. It's very frustrating. I also have an abusive past, starting in grade school and continuing until age 31. No parental abuse; it was all peer and spousal abuse, mostly emotional.

The crying doesn't happen often; in fact, in almost 8 weeks, it's only happened twice, and I have been severely stressed. So, for me, I'm doing very well. I have never shed a tear in front of the students; not once. This happens only after classes, when I'm alone with one of my mentor teachers. I have two of them.

I teach three classes in the morning, and two after lunch. My morning mentor is "Jan," and my afternoon mentor is "Lil." They are both older than I, by about ten years. Our relationship is tentative--best word I can use. They seem to like me, but they also seem to disdain me somewhat.

I'm not sure I can describe this situation well enough for clarity. I'm already fumbling for how to say it. Okay: I feel as though my teachers are trying to help me, but at the same time, trying to sabotage me.

For instance: according to the information packet given to them and to me, I am to solo teach my classes for seven to eight weeks. The remainder of the time, I am to team-teach with them, as well as observe other teachers. This is to give me needed exposure to other teaching styles and strategies.

My teachers decided between themselves to stagger my solo start times, to make it easier on me to transition into my classes. So far, so good. I started teaching my two morning Comp classes from the first day of the semester. The Am Lit classes were to start three weeks after that, and the mythology...well, the mythology I am never going to get to teach solo. Jan loves her mythology class, and doesn't want to give control of it to me. She told me we would team-teach it, but "don't tell your supervisor. He doesn't need to know."

Nice. She breaks the rules, and makes me complicit. No, I can't complain: what would be the point? If my supervisor tries to fix the situation, she will know I told him and our relationship will be ruined. And if I tell him not to fix it, then what's the point in even telling him?

Then, when I asked Lil if she wanted me to teach Am Lit for seven or for eight weeks, she informed me that I would be teaching all of my classes all semester--they had decided it was best. Another rule violation. This time, I did tell my supervisor about it. He said that wasn't the way it should be done; my observation time is important, or they wouldn't have scheduled it.

Oh, he fixed it all right. I am now teaching the Comp classes solo for 13 weeks, and the Am Lit...well, she wouldn't budge. So I get a whole three weeks observation, for about an hour a day. I feel I am being used. The classes they gave me to teach are the ones they don't much like to teach. They kept their honors and AP classes, and told me I wasn't allowed to teach honors. Other members of my cohort are teaching honors classes in their placements, so I know my teachers lied. (I do know I can't teach AP without special training, so I'm not complaining about that.)

Point is, I don't think this is about what's good for the students, or for me, but for them. They don't want to take these classes back, and are trying very hard not to take them back. As stated, I feel they are taking advantage of me, but I also feel powerless to do anything about it.

Next problem: I have some students in my 6th hour who hate my guts for no better reason than that I am a student teacher. They are boys, for the most part: one ringleader, and two to three followers. Another student teacher from my cohort, who had his internship last term, was almost hounded out of the classroom by these same boys. Now, I don't expect or require all my students to love me, but I don't know how to deal with the hatred coming from these boys, which I have done nothing to deserve. My mentor Lil has told me I must learn to deal with it somehow, as I will always have difficult students.

I understand that, but I don't know how to deal with them, and it's getting worse. Today, two of these boys conspired during a group-work session to make another student cry (and succeeded), and then they began to work on me. I released the student to go to the library, because she was so upset. My mentor had left me alone in the classroom (and she's not supposed to), and I didn't know what to do.

I try not to let these boys know they have gotten to me on a personal level. I either keep smiling, or I adopt a no-nonsense mein, but I don't yell at them or get visibly upset. Today, one boy, who is nothing more than a hanger-on in the group, got up the nerve to challenge me and actually told me I couldn't control him, and there was nothing I could do.

I informed him that I could give him a zero for the day, since he'd rather bully people than work. He told me I couldn't do that, and I advised him to just watch me. I understand that when I turned my back, he called me a bitch, but I didn't hear it, and so can't report it.

All that is bad enough. The worst part, to me, is that I feel I don't know what I'm doing, and my mentors aren't being much help. Sometimes, when I ask for advice, they actually tell me I have to figure out what to do on my own. It's as if I'm going sky-diving, but I have to figure out how to fold and pack my 'chute all by myself, the first time out.

Lil hands me "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair, and tells me to "teach it."

What's that mean? I don't know...I don't know how to explain what I don't know, but how do you teach a book? What are my objectives? What are they supposed to be learning? How do I make sure I get them there, wherever "there" is? When I ask, I'm told that's for me to figure out. "What do I want them to learn?" But I don't know what my options are or how to get there. Aren't they supposed to be instructing me in all that?

We finally got through The Jungle, but we all hated it, including me. Now we have begun Modernism, and I'm still just as lost. I need to teach some WWI poetry. I don't know how. We're going to view The Great Gatsby on film, next week, and then have a scored discussion. At last, something I know how to do...mostly. After that, some short stories.

I need help, here, and support, and I'm getting neither. If I complain, it will make me look bad.

What can I do? How do I teach this subject? I know English; I scored a 196/200 on the Praxis II, for content-area knowledge. But I don't know how to teach English, and my mentors are being as little help as possible.

My supervisor is aware there is a communication problem, but I didn't tell him. He simply observed how Lil treated me and spoke to me at our last meeting, and picked up on it. He said in my last observation form that I may have "to beg and plead for help from them."

Wha? Beg and plead?

Any advice would be welcome, and any advice on where to go to get the info I need on how to teach would be very, very welcome.

Thanks for your time.

(edited for typos)

[meg]

Hi Slingblade,

I don't have any advice really. Just wanted to give you a mental hug and a pat on the back and say we really need good caring teachers, like you. Thanks for being one and going through all this.

I know others with teaching experience will be able to help, hopefully with what to do about the situation.

I'm hoping you get this stuff figured out soon and start finding that style and bliss you were going for in the beginning.

I'm rooting for ya.

Meg

[TruthSeeker]

I'm sorry you are going through this, Slingblade. It sounds really horrible. It does seem they are taking advantage of you.

I wish I could offer concrete advice but your situation is so different from mine. We do have some wonderful teachers on this board. I'm sure they will have some excellent wisdom to share with you.

In the meantime, be gentle with yourself.

Hugs.

TS

[slingblade]

Thanks, Meg and TS. I really appreciate the support and encouragement, a lot.

I do enjoy my students; most of them, at least. I have many excellent writers in comp, and they enjoy my teaching style and give the best they can give. We have fun, but I still feel my fumbling style is letting them down, somewhat. I want to help them learn how to write well, how to enjoy reading, and how to use English to their best advantage. I just feel so ignorant.

I have many moments when I enjoy what I'm doing. But the problems are really bringing me down. You are so kind to comfort me.

Thank you.

[TruthSeeker]

I think teaching style develops over time with experience. I teach at the university level - a class of 800 first and second year undergrads and a class of 6 graduate students - so very different from your experience. University profs get no training at all. It is simply expected that we will know how to lecture effectively. I spent the first year in a daze similar to what you describe. I had no idea how to talk to 800 kids so that they would be it had some relevance to them. Even my AVs were wrong - the font was too small, too many words etc. etc - and my tests were far too hard. In the first and second year, my evaluations were poor to fair.

With time, I relaxed into it. I found what worked for me. My evaluations have improved dramatically.

You will find it too. It takes time and experience.

[Jeff Corey]

I wish I could offer some helpful advice, but I teach at a university and have never encountered any similar problems. It sounds like the problems are mainly caused by the "mentors", who are anything but helpful. They are violating the guidelines because they are lazy and want you to handle the scut work. The supervisor sounds like a bit of a dork, with the "beg and plead with them" advice. Why doesn't s/he do the job and get things straightened out?
And the droogies who act up in class and tell you that you cannot control them need to be stopped in a New York minute. At the college level, I can privately inform them that if their inapprpriate behavior persists, they will have to take a hike. They can drop the course or take an F.
You probably don't have that option.
I hope some other people here have some more helpful ideas, but I just wanted you to know that someone else heard you.
Jeff Corey

[slingblade]

Hi, Jeff;

I do my best to stop them, and of course my every attempt makes them even angrier with me and more determined to chase me off. HA! Little do they know that they have nowhere near the power to make me leave that $30,000 in student loans has to make me stay!

I have few options with these boys, you're right. My mentors have told me not to send anyone to the office--I'll look as if I can't control the class if I do. My options with them are to sit them out in the hallway, or....wait. That's about it, really.

Lil has said she will send today's bad-boy to the office herself, so I won't be connected with it....but doesn't the office know I'm teaching that class? Ah well.

They have also told me that I will learn what I need to know, with a few years of teaching under my belt. But I still feel I am badly short-changing my students. And it's really hard to plan lessons a week in advance when I don't know what to do on a daily basis.

Thank you, however. I appreciate the support. I hadn't realized how much I needed it until folks began to reply. Now I am crying, for real, and hard. I feel so alone.

Thank you, thank you. It helps.

[athon]

Slingblade,

I was a high school science teacher. I can remember my preservice days, and man, reading your post brought back memories.

I tried to become a teacher as soon as I'd finished my bachelor's degree in applied science. I lasted barely a couple of months in the course, mostly for what you've indicated, but also because I was running myself into the ground with a part time job and too much study. I'd burned myself out, and then was disappointed in myself when I quit teaching (not to mention I had no idea what I wanted to do).

I got a job in pathology, but made another go of the teaching thing years later once I'd figured it was where I was heading. I've not regretted making that decision, even though I'm now moving from education into science communications (hell, I might even go back to teaching after this anyway).

My preservice teaching was a mixed bag. I had the school from hell, and also had the best time at another school. But there was one thing I learned; deep inside there was something about teaching that made sense to me. It was hard, demoralising, and at times just plain emotionally draining, but there was something that made me get up and do it again the next day.

Why are you wanting to be a teacher? Honestly, do you think you have skills that will help you? Teaching is a damn hard profession. But if there is something deep inside that gets a thrill out of helping somebody see the world in a slightly different way, then there's reason to push on tomorrow.

There are plenty of control teachers out there, who will flout regulations and justify their retaining of 'favourite' classes from student teachers. You just have to keep your head down and make it through. Keep going, day after day, and know that as you get more resources and learn new skills, it will get easier.

This is the worst time for you. And first-year teaching will present just as many challenges, and you will have to continue to prove yourself to your students, to other teachers, to the community... But it will get better.

Send me a PM if you want to just vent, or want any help at all. I can give you a few tips on discipline and classroom management (I worked in eastend London; it doesn't get a whole lot harder than that).

Athon

[Jeff Corey]

Athon,
I'd like to hear a bit about classroom management myself. If the droogs are bigger than you, the "ALL RIGHT, THEN, SIDDOWN AND SHUT YER FESTERING GOBS UP!" may be a problem.

A bit of a derail. Once I flunked a student for blatantly cheating on the final exam. Her response was that her boyfriend was a lawyer for the Mafia and that if I flunked her, he would have me "taken care of."

"Doug Dinsdale? Yup, he did nail me 'ead to the floor. And me wife's to the coffee table."

[screw_dog]

Slingblade,

I am not a teacher, but I run classes for offenders in a correctional setting and my girlfriend is a first year teacher. Your post reminded me of several groups of guys that I've worked with. I can give you some advice that my girlfriend and I have both found useful.

1. Focus on the big picture. Even having these kids in your classroom instead of on the street is beneficial for them, even if you teach them nothing else. Trust me, having a caring, interested teacher at the front of the room is worth more than you may ever know.

2. This will pass. Your internship will finish, you will move onto another school, different classes, etc. You will improve. They will improve.

3. Make sure you are very familiar with your school's behaviour management policy. Know what you can and can't do with your students. Are you able to put them in "peer withdrawal", detention, etc?

4. Use basic behaviour management with your students. Use your ABC's. That is, Antecedent, Behaviour, Consequent. For example, "I have asked you to read silently (antecedent), if you continue to talk (behaviour) I will have you removed from my classroom (consequent)".

5. Allow your students to make choices. You haven't failed just because they decide to misbehave. Explain the consequences to them and allow them to choose. Don't beat yourself up, and don't take things personally. They do this to their normal teachers (that's why Jan and Lil don't want those classes), don't blame yourself!

6. Make it fun! I had a group of guys who wouldn't stop swearing. Every second word was c___, f___ or s___. In the end we made a card game where we each started with ten cards and you gave a card to someone else if you heard them swear. At the end of each session we gave out a prize to who ever had the least cards.

Good luck! My girlfriend really struggled during her practicals and I've had several times I've wondered if I'll ever be a "real" teacher. If deep inside you want to do it, then stick with it. I can still remember how happy my girlfriend was when she overhead one of her students say "that's my Japanese teacher, she's awesome".

[athon]

Heh, I must admit, I've had kids threaten that their parents would 'do me in', but never the Mafia.

Classroom management is a tricky thing to balance. A lot of teachers go for the 'over-yell' technique, using emotion to control the class by showing that they're angry. The problem with that is that they often are angry, and that makes for poor class control.

There's no point in sitting and spelling out all of the techniques that are useful for good discipline. Firstly, they depend on the situation. Second, they work for me and might not work for another. Thirdly, it'd take a book of writing and even then I'd probably have more to say on it.

I can give a couple of useful tips that work for me, though;

Teenage kids are flexing their social wings, as it were. They want to climb the hierarchy and be popular amongst their peers, without exception. How they do this varies, but the bottom line is that all kids like to be praised. By having a good relationship with a popular teacher, most kids will feel they belong to the social order they live in every day and their lives will be easier.

So, first of all, be an understanding teacher. Note, this is not to say 'be one of the kids'. No kids will respect that. But, be fair and be approachable, and be yourself.

Next, reward works better than punishment. Reward all good behaviour you see, even if it's just with acknoweledgement. Physical rewards can be good, but a simple smile and a nod for the kid who makes an attempt at answering a question can do wonders.

For kids who misbehave, be consistent with your discipline (carry out ALL threats to the letter, even if you have to track them down for a week). And if you do get angry, quickly follow it up by being calm and polite with a kid who is doing the right thing. This shows that you've not gotten emotional over the behaviour of a student. Kids control teachers by provoking a response. Hence, if you do respond, show it is temporary and they have not succeeded in getting to you.

These are just a couple of tips that got me through some pretty hard classes. The worst thing you can do is let the kids get to you. They will sense it, and like sharks the real bastards will go for the old wounds and try to control you whenever possible.

Athon

[athon]

And having just read screwdog's post, I can agree with every word. Damn good advice.

Athon

[Kevin_Lowe]

It sounds to me that you are dealing with two root problems, both of which boild down to dereliction of duty on other people's parts.

The first is that your supervisor is, metaphorically speaking, a lazy jellyfish entirely without testicles. They get paid to support you, not to let your mentors use you as their scut worker in breach of the rules.

Where's that bit...


Oh, he fixed it all right. I am now teaching the Comp classes solo for 13 weeks, and the Am Lit...well, she wouldn't budge.


If this person "won't budge", it's your supervisor's job to invoke bigger and bigger sticks until they damn well do budge. Right now. They are in the wrong and they know it.

I imagine there are avenues for complaints about supervisors? Tell your supervisor politely but firmly that you are disappointed by their failure to fix your problem, that you expect them to do their job, that you will make a written complaint if they do not, and follow through on it if necessary. You are in the right, and as long as you make a stink and leave a paper trail that means you'll win.

Unless the system is totally corrupt, of course.

The second problem is your posse of evil students in your sixth hour. I say, damn the torpedoes and make them the principal's problem. You can't be expected as a student teacher to handle the worst of the worst, and it's the principal's job to back you up.

If their bad behaviour persists, then the principal has failed, not you.

It sounds like the system you are working within has developed mechanisms to shovel responsibility and trouble that properly belongs to the "real" staff over on to you. I wouldn't tolerate that, but then again I don't have $30 000 in student loans blackmailing me.

I would do some sniffing around and see if there is any support person, ombudsperson or similar entity hiding somewhere in the cracks of the system who can act as your headkicker and witness. It's a lot easier to buffalo a single stressed person at the bottom of the heap than someone with a useful ally. Failing that there may be some provision for taking an "advocate" (ally) in to bat with you - pick the least-bullyable person you know and have them bring a notebook and a pen.

Needless to say standing up for yourself will not make you popular, but frankly you shouldn't be concerned with whether the people who treat you this way like you or not. You can't make them like you, but you might be able to pull them into line.

[Roadtoad]

I think, Sling, I would have a few words with your supervisor's supervisor. Something is not right here, and I would put some serious effort into fixing this. Otherwise, the next student teacher is going to have it even worse.

Stick with it. Please. You have come so far, there's no reason to let yourself down. You can do this, and win. We're pulling for you!

[slingblade]

The advice is great! There is much I can use here, and much I needed very much to hear.

Thank you all.

I have tried to contact my supervisor's supervisor. She was my instructor in two edu classes last semester, and seemed impressed by me, and to like me.

She is not taking calls from any of us. I got it from another ST at my school, also one of my cohort at college, that he did reach her once, and she told him flatly she was too busy to take our calls, and we would have to work with our supervisors. I see this as her trying to keep us from immediately going over the sup's head, instead of working with him as we should. But I've tried working with him, and it didn't fix the problem. If she refuses to speak with us, however, there's nothing I can do that won't jeopardize my internship, or my evaluations, or my job potential. There's an opening at my school, and I want it. A squeaky wheel won't get hired.

I have to pucker up, I think, so what I need to know is how to deal with it.

I am so grateful for everyone's help, and so glad I decided to post. This is a great community, because of all of you.

I'll try the things you've suggested. It's not that I wanted someone to tell me exactly how to manage my classroom...I just don't know what kinds of things I should be trying.** But I have a better idea now, and you've no idea how much better even a clue makes me feel.

Can't thank you enough!

Sling.

ETA: **It's not that I wanted you to cook dinner; I just need to know what ingredients I have on hand to use.

[screw_dog]

Please keep us up to date on your progress. I would like to know how you go, especially if it doesn't work for you and we can be of assistance or give you support.

[Beth]

Slingblade,

You have my sympathies. THis is not an easy situation and I know exactly what you are talking about with 'leaky' eyes. I've not had that problem often, but it's awful when it happens.

I had such a problem with my professor. One I still have to study under. He was notorious for it and I was not the only woman who has left his office in tears. One girl I know talked about doing so every week for an entire semeter in order to learn what she needed to know. It takes great resolution and strength of charactor to continue.

I can, however, tell you what I have done. It sounds extremely hokey and trite, but I try to greet him at the beginning of class with a smile and 'good morning' or 'good afternoon'. It didn't change things overnight, and I can't say for sure that is what has changed things, but he's definitely become nicer to me and to his other students over the past 6 months.

Interestingly enough, and this is one reason I've started doing that, was when I was teaching one of the comments I received on my teaching was that I always greeted my class with "good morning" or "good afternoon" when I started. Some students really appreciated it.

It's hokey and trite, but if I recommend that if you aren't doing already doing that simple thing every time you see your mentors, their supervisor, or begin your class, give it a try.

Good luck. Teaching can be great fun!

[slingblade]

Absolutely! I'll stay in touch. Thanks, Dog.

ETA: and Beth! I'm so glad someone understands about leaky eyes. :) It makes it so hard to be taken seriously when you're trying to resolve a conflict.

"I'd like to discuss this problem with you, but I'm afraid it's time to water my face."

[TragicMonkey]

The leaky eye thing is easily explained away by claiming contact lens irritation issues, or just plain allergies.

[slingblade]

That might work, TM, but I have my doubts, since I only do this when I'm obviously upset. I am crying; it's just that I have no desire or will to cry, and cannot control it. In fact, attempting to control it only makes it worse.

But I will try your suggestion in future and see if it helps. Thanks!

[Larry Barrieau]

Hi Sling,

I was going to give you some good advice but it's already been given. Remember you're just stopping over to get the credentials so you can have your own class. When I was a student teacher I realized early on that I wasn't there to teach the students, I was there so they could teach me. You're not expected to be a good teacher right now.

Everything you are experiencing now you will experience where you work. The punks, the territorialism, the politics, the unsupportive administration; but stick it out and it gets better every year and so do you.

It's very stressful. As a union rep I have dealt with a lot of veteran teachers who still get leaky eyes sometimes.

Larry

[bpesta22]

The only rule of teaching I can offer is be yourself (not saying you're not). If you try to be someone else, the students will sense it.

Also, the NEA is the biggest union in the country-- is your district unionized? If so, perhaps you can go to the steward / union rep with your concerns over how your mentors are treating you?

[slingblade]

Hi, Larry, and thanks;

You know, I'm really grateful for the advice and support here, and I realize you're right: this is my testing ground, and to an extent, my proving ground. I know it's intrinsically difficult, but I'm not asking them to make it easier on me--just to support me while I go through it; make it bearable, if at all possible.

What irks me are those in my cohort to whom I speak who tell me "Oooh, I'm just having so much fun, wheeeeee!"

I'm not having fun. Grumble. I want to have some fun, grumble, grumble.

....okay. I am having some fun. A little. A smidge. I have the most fun when my students get "ah-ha" moments because of something I said, or an activity I made them try even though it sounded "stupid" to them at first. The best is when I inspire an "ah-ha" moment in one student, who then goes on to explain what she just figured out to another student, and they spread the ah-ha moment through the classroom.

But now that I can see, through the folks here, that what I'm going through isn't abnormal, or isn't just me being picked on, I think it will become a bit more bearable.

Larry, I really needed to hear that I needn't be a great teacher right now. I don't think I'm a perfectionist, but I do have perfectionist tendencies. I expect a lot out of myself. I think I'm the one making this hardest on myself.

Sling resolves to lighten up.

And to figure out why she's speaking in third-person.

Thank you, Larry.

[rjh01]

I am not a teacher, I am a supervisor of people. One peace of advice that has not been given is to record every little issue. Then if someone says what is the issue with this person? You can tell them dates, times and incidents. Not just the latest one. Also record what you have done about the incidents.

Remember you will not always be in your internship. Just hang in there. One day it will be over. One way or another. What way is up to you.

If you want to know more find and read books on bullying.

[Larry Barrieau]

One peace of advice that has not been given is to record every little issue. Then if someone says what is the issue with this person? You can tell them dates, times and incidents. Not just the latest one. Also record what you have done about the incidents.
.




Excellent advice!



Bye the way, Happy Birthday Sling!

[Roadtoad]

*wince*

Okay, I gotta pass this one on...

Sling, my second son, Chris, is a student teacher as well. The one thing he has recommended is that you cannot allow the chaos to start. You have to get control from the get-go. In reading what you said, what Chris thought was that while you were allowing the teachers to maintain control during the observation period, that was the time to start connecting and developing authority yourself. This would have helped you later on. His thought is (and this is something I thought of, but didn't connect on) that having been a victim of abuse, there's a tendency towards passivity on your part. You have the authority, it's just putting it to use.

The boys in your class who are grooving on making your life miserable aren't interpreting your kindness as kindness. They see it as weakness. They want the authority that you have. Chris' view is that you need to exercise authority early, and often, to break their desire to play these games. Otherwise, you're going to make yourself miserable. And that's not why you spent all that money going back to school.

It's a live and learn deal. When I teach a new guy how to drive a truck these days, it's almost the same sort of thing. He might have that cert from a driving school, but the reality is that all he has is a Commercial Driver's License. He's got next to nothing in the way of knowledge of trucking, (and I've already told one tale about this), but some of these guys think that having that ticket in their pocket makes them big sh**. It took me a while to get to the point where I could tell them, "Look, until you've put that first million miles under your wheels, you don't know jack. So, shut up and listen. After you've gotten a couple of hundred thousand miles behind you, then you can tell me what you know about trucking."

You can do this, Sling. It's not going to be easy. But you can do it. You will succeed.

[T'ai Chi]

Hi slingblade.

Don't know about the teaching English part, but as far as bullies, they are to be found everywhere, in classes, on internet bulletin boards, on sports teams, and even among coworkers sometimes.

Unfortunately, there is little one can do about these frightened and threatened people who thrive on power plays and a dueling mentality. They usually grow out of it, or don't end up being successful in many areas of life.

When I was a teaching assistant in college, if grown up students acted up to a point where I couldn't teach, I just stood silently until they stopped. The longest I had to wait was a little over 5 minutes.

The bullies feed off of agitated reactions which are natural and to be expected, not unexpected relaxed and silent responses. Most often what occurs, is that the other students rally against the bullies, which is nice to see.

[slingblade]

Sling, my second son, Chris, is a student teacher as well. The one thing he has recommended is that you cannot allow the chaos to start. You have to get control from the get-go. In reading what you said, what Chris thought was that while you were allowing the teachers to maintain control during the observation period, that was the time to start connecting and developing authority yourself. This would have helped you later on.

I agree this would have been the right thing, save that the classes I teach are semester courses: all new students in January, just as in August. There was no way to establish authority then, as I hadn't yet met them. It was just like the first day of school in many ways.


His thought is (and this is something I thought of, but didn't connect on) that having been a victim of abuse, there's a tendency towards passivity on your part. You have the authority, it's just putting it to use.

This is true to an extent; I can't deny it. However, I'm also the mother of 2 sons, and stepmom to 2 others (I have a total of 4 stepchildren, but I reared only 2 of them). It's not that I'm reluctant to be the authority: in my mind, it's that I don't know what steps I can take, or when they are best taken, as an authority. This makes me hesitant.

I have decided to call and speak to the father of the young man who bullied me and the other student. I understand from my mentor that his dad is strict, and wouldn't appreciate his behavior. I don't think I should tell the student I'm going to call his dad, but just do it. OTOH, I hate to get anyone in trouble; yes, I know he got himself in trouble. Oh, hell.

Here's what I see as a problem (although the few in my profession to whom I have mentioned this disagree with me): I have a head full of education theory, and very little practical application upon which to draw. Much of my learning was based on being a "PC" teacher, recognizing diversity and cultural differences which exist in my classrooms, and structuring discipline accordingly. I just wish they had focused more on telling us what kinds of discipline options we have: "Your low-level discipline options include....your moderate-level, your high-level," and so forth.

The boys in your class who are grooving on making your life miserable aren't interpreting your kindness as kindness. They see it as weakness. They want the authority that you have. Chris' view is that you need to exercise authority early, and often, to break their desire to play these games. Otherwise, you're going to make yourself miserable. And that's not why you spent all that money going back to school.

So very true. I am proud of the fact that while they cannot help but know I'm not pleased, they have never seen me lose my temper or get weepy. They have seen me frustrated, however, and that's bad enough.

I do not, however, have it in me to be a bitch--or rather, I have it in me to be a BIG bitch, and don't want to go there. It is clear to me that finding this middle ground is very much one of those things that time and experience alone will teach me.

It's a live and learn deal. When I teach a new guy how to drive a truck these days, it's almost the same sort of thing. He might have that cert from a driving school, but the reality is that all he has is a Commercial Driver's License. He's got next to nothing in the way of knowledge of trucking, (and I've already told one tale about this), but some of these guys think that having that ticket in their pocket makes them big sh**. It took me a while to get to the point where I could tell them, "Look, until you've put that first million miles under your wheels, you don't know jack. So, shut up and listen. After you've gotten a couple of hundred thousand miles behind you, then you can tell me what you know about trucking."

You can do this, Sling. It's not going to be easy. But you can do it. You will succeed.

Toad, thank your Chris for me, please, and tell him I wish him well in his career! (I also have a son named Chris. :D) I know I can do this, and I thank you for your confidence in me.

I think what really bugs me the most is the apparent joy of my cohort in their placements. They keep telling me they're having so much fun. I'm having fun, too, but not so much that it outweighs the negatives. And that irks me.

Thank you!

[Hindmost]

Hi Slingblade,

I have the utmost sympathy for you. I changed careers from engineering to teaching awhile ago and I have been teaching for about 5 years now. I was fortunate to have a good mentor during student teaching and found the experience enjoyable. I was looking forward to my first job thinking it would be similar and I would fall right into a good situation. I was naive. My first year of teaching I had two classes at the end of the day that were straight out of hades.:medusa:

During that first year, I had some awful students that almost made me want to quit and walk out of the school. (I could always go back to engineering) I cannot remember a day that I came out of those classes with a smile on my face. The students weren't just disruptive, some of them were just mean. I really think there is an unwritten policy with teaching that is designed to throw teachers into the deep end and see if they swim--and I was not doing well. I would send students out of class and the admin would sent them back telling me to deal with it. Other new teachers were having the same feelings and though it was nice to have kindred spirits, the job was not what I really signed up for. I never did give up however and I finished that first year exhausted and rethinking my career change. I decided to try another year and found out things can get better.

I don't want to just echo the good advice I have seen on other posts, so I will try and add some value here.

I have found most--if not all-- students always show more respect if they feel you really know your stuff. If you can answer all questions, cannot be fooled on subject matter and you work hard to teach them you will eventually get more respect. I believe you won't have problems there. Eventually, as students talk to each other, the word will spread about your classes and students will improve their attitude. Once you have your ownership of your classroom, teaching will become more of what you expected and it will be enjoyable. However, you will always have some students that will be a headache and you will always be exhausted from all the work.

Now, at the beginning of the year, I set down the rules and I don't have to really be any type of enforcer--the students know what is expected before the year begins--word spreads quickly. I don't raise my voice and I can keep a class in line and focused. I like to give rewards more than punishment, however, you must be careful on the reward side as well...students may expect a reward at every turn.

Now, some of those former students that I really wanted to nuke, are always polite to me and appreciate what I was doing. I rarely have problems and I can deal with them.

hang in there...:hb:

glenn :boxedin: (and fellow Heinlein fan)

"Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence." Heinlein

[drkitten]

I have tried to contact my supervisor's supervisor. She was my instructor in two edu classes last semester, and seemed impressed by me, and to like me.

She is not taking calls from any of us. I got it from another ST at my school, also one of my cohort at college, that he did reach her once, and she told him flatly she was too busy to take our calls, and we would have to work with our supervisors.

Dean of Education.

I have never seen a problem in an educational setting that could not be solved by invoking the Dean. Specifically, if your supervisor won't do his job, and his supervisor won't do hers, then just continue working up the chain of command. Eventually it will get to the point where the person who gets your complaint doesn't care about the politics of it and simply wants it off his desk, and will fix things in no uncertain terms.

[Seismosaurus]

Any advice would be welcome, and any advice on where to go to get the info I need on how to teach would be very, very welcome.

I'm a science teacher myself (UK not US), in public schools also. I've been through some of the same stuff you have, so I thought I'd send a bit of advice your way. I don't know if some or all of this is going to be rendered moot by the differences in culture between US and UK schools...

First, do NOT let people break the rules regarding what you do and don't have to do. You don't have to do it in an accusative way, put it more as "I thought I wasn't supposed to be doing this... is that right? What do the rules say?" If that doesn't resolve things, go to their supervisor - again not being accusative. And so on up the line until somebody listens and acts. Ultimately, all you are asking them to do is to conform to the school policy so somewhere along the line you should win.

In the UK, I would also go see my union representative if I was having trouble with the bosses. Don't know how unions work in the US, though.

As for the students. The situation you describe is extremely common. It's a game to them, and the winner is the one that makes you crack - the one who makes you visibly upset or angry in front of them. I have several times had kids brag to me about making student teachers quit!

Do NOT let this become a personal battle - it's a bad idea to talk to them in terms of "Well if you push me, I'll give you a zero!" because that's a challenge - if they back down to you they lose face in front of their friends, so their response is to up the stakes in return - "You think I care if you give me a zero?"

Rather, lay it out as being purely a consequence of their actions. More like "Hmm, okay. But if you choose to do that, you know you'll get a zero for the lesson," or "if you really have decided not to work today, you won't be staying in the classroom. You have two minutes." AND THEN WALK AWAY. This is vital. NEVER stay and argue with them. As soon as you finish explaining the consequences of his choice, you simply turn your back on him and walk off, go help someone else. He might act out behind your back, but that doesn't make him look big in front of his mates, it makes him look like an idiot trying to get the last word after the fight is over. And if he hasn't complied within the time, follow through on what you threatened. Do NOT give him another chance, no matter how he might beg and plead. "You knew the consequences. You chose to misbehave. If you didn't want this to happen, you should have made a different choice."

In terms of subject knowledge, remember that you only have to be one or two steps ahead of the students! You can hit the books, ask other teachers - I've never known a teacher who minded being asked for help in planning lessons. In the UK science teachers generally teach their own science specialty and one other heavily, and the third to a lesser degree - so I teach mostly physics and chemistry, but some biology. I'm always having to ask biology teachers all kinds of stuff, and often answering their physics questions in return. You wouldn't think it, but teaching can be a very lonely job, IF you let it be. The more you talk to others, the better you will feel.

[slingblade]

You wouldn't think it, but teaching can be a very lonely job, IF you let it be. The more you talk to others, the better you will feel.

I can see that, and easily. Today, the other ST at my school finally confessed he hates his sixth hour as much as I do mine, and that they nearly bring him to tears, and he is NOT the crying type. He said, "I know this sounds bad, but I am glad to hear you are having a hard time, too, because I feel less lonely and less like it is all my fault."

I told him I understood completely, and that's what he gets for telling me last week how much fun he's having! He grinned and said, "I am so sorry for that. You needed support, and I didn't give it. Now I understand. We should get together and talk more often, compare notes, and try to help each other."

That felt really good.

I appreciate greatly the management advice you have given. I can see this working better than what I have tried! That's what I needed to hear.

Today I called the mom of the boy who bullied the other student and me last Friday. She was not happy with him. I explained that we had a good relationship to start with, but then he seemed to start following the crowd and has now become antagonistic in class. His attitude has soured and it bothers me, since we started out so well.

She said she'd not only speak to him about it, but that if it continues or gets worse, I am to call her, and she will come to class with him. :) For days, if necessary.

Today I had a problem with a student who is very active in class (the type one might call "ADD," but I don't like to throw such terms around as if they were meaningful in all cases). We were going to watch The Great Gatsby,
and this student snitched the remote control. I kept trying to turn on the TV, and he kept turning it off. Then he got tired of that, and kept turning the DVD player on and off. Another student told me he had the remote, so I got it from him, and started the film. As soon as the opening credits were done, he turned off the film. I stood up quietly, stood behind him, and saw a second remote in his lap! He had snitched two, the one for the TV, and the universal remote, and was using the universal without my seeing it.

I'd had it. I'd gotten very frustrated and wasted a LOT of time just setting up the player. Wasted class time irritates me no end. So I sent him to the hall for the rest of class and told him he wouldn't be able to participate in the scored discussion we would have after the film, as he would miss the first half-hour or so. You can't discuss what you can't see. So he had essentially bought himself a zero for the entire film because he thought he'd be funny.

We'll see how it goes tomorrow.

Thanks for the very helpful suggestions! I can use them all!

[screw_dog]

Well done slingblade. It sounds like you handled yourself very well in a situation that could have gone really badly. Good stuff!

The only thing I would suggest is to ensure that you speak to the student who'd misbehaved and explain to him what happened. That is, make sure that he understands what was unacceptable in what he did, why it is unacceptable and why he was punished. If you've already done that, good stuff!

[slingblade]

Screw Dog, after I sent him to the hall and restarted the film, I went out there and asked him the usual question: did you really think that was funny?

Because I could have actually laughed, had he stopped with turning the TV off a couple of times. I have a sense of humor, and a darned good one, and while I would never want to encourage misbehavior, I can recognize a tension-breaker. This happened in 5th hour, with whom I have a good relationship. But I was dreading 6th hour, and it was starting to get a little tense in the room as that class period approached. It really would have been amusing, had he done it once or twice and there's the end of it.

The annoying part was that this misbehaving student is one I have supported since last semester. I had him in my compostion class, first hour, and he wasn't turning in much work. One of the assignments had been to write a college or work goal statement, and he hadn't done it. We had a long talk and he said neither form of writing was applicable to him: he's a musician. So, instead, I guided him to write an artist's statement, and doggone if his writing wasn't almost perfect! And I told him so, quite proud of him.

This semester, he invited me to come watch him play at a Raza event, and I went. He's good! I have a musically gifted son, and this student reminds me of him a lot. For this guy to tweak me so hard was odd, and bothered me even more than if one of my classroom bullies done it.

Today he and I will talk. I had tried to call him mom, too, but their phone is disconnected. So, instead, I'll be talking to the Hispanic LEAGUE office at school, and they'll help me impress upon him how detrimental to his own future such acts are. (I have left out a lot: this student can be annoying, trying to be funny, but so far I have managed to keep this behavior from being too disruptive.) Yesterday was excessive, and he needs to realize that, if he doesn't already. I'll be speaking with him, trying to restore the relationship if he's willing, and trying to impress upon him why what he did got him in so much trouble. I'm betting he knows, though.

I am somewhat dreading these classes today. I don't know what to expect, and hope I can deal with whatever comes my way.

[screw_dog]

Thanks for the background. It seems you handled yourself well. I'm impressed by how you handled the situation, I could feel my blood boiling even as I read your account, not sure what I would have done in your place!
I am somewhat dreading these classes today. I don't know what to expect, and hope I can deal with whatever comes my way.
I've had a few groups that I've not looked forward to, but there is one in particular that sticks in my mind. Allow me to set the scene...

I was running a psycho-educational program to address cognitive deficits related to offending. The program was 10 weeks long, 4 times a week, 2 hours each session. I had a cofacilitator and 10 participants, ranging from a 20 year old armed robber to a 45 year old indigenous wife basher.

One of our participants was a deeply entrenched violent offender. He'd first been before the courts at the age of 11 (when he was considered too young to be punished). He'd been convicted of 46 offences during the year that he was 15. His offending history was so extensive that by the time he was 18 he was serving 5+ year sentences (almost unheard of at that age). By the time he ended up in our group he was about 30. His offending was almost all violent, mainly armed robberies.

Anyway, this guy is not only of below average intelligence, he also has narcissistic personality disorder (not my diagnosis). He decides that he is going to run the program, not us, and no-one is going to make him look stupid in front of the other participants.

He argued everything we said, throughout the entire program. He disagreed over every single point, arguing even the definitions of the words we were using. The other participants were so scared of him that they wouldn't pull him up for disrupting the class, and he didn't care anyway. I cried several times.

Everyday I used to drag myself to that class, and drag myself through it. My cofacilitator was even less able to handle him, and I found myself having to help her through it too. The only thing that kept me going was the thought that not only did the other 9 participants really need the program, but that my problem participant needed it most of all.

In the end, I doubt I made much, if any, difference to him. He had such a strong pattern of behaviour that I wonder if anything could shift him from it. However, I feel really good about having got through it, and I haven't had a group to fear since, as none have been as bad as him!

[pgwenthold]

Today I had a problem with a student who is very active in class (the type one might call "ADD," but I don't like to throw such terms around as if they were meaningful in all cases). We were going to watch The Great Gatsby,
and this student snitched the remote control. I kept trying to turn on the TV, and he kept turning it off. Then he got tired of that, and kept turning the DVD player on and off. Another student told me he had the remote, so I got it from him, and started the film. As soon as the opening credits were done, he turned off the film. I stood up quietly, stood behind him, and saw a second remote in his lap! He had snitched two, the one for the TV, and the universal remote, and was using the universal without my seeing it.

I'd had it. I'd gotten very frustrated and wasted a LOT of time just setting up the player. Wasted class time irritates me no end.

Wow, you handled that a lot better than I would have. You might have a sense of humor, and I do, too, but these types of annoying little twits aren't funny at all.

When you asked him if he thought it was funny, what did he say?

I would have been more blunt. Probably the second time he turned it off, I would have just quit trying, and said, OK, if you don't want to watch the movie, we'll have a lecture instead. At that point, I doubt anyone else would think it would be funny.

When I was reading this, I was thinking about my dog, who likes to do that. For example, if we need him to go outside before we leave, and he doesn't want to, then he will stand just out of our reach. As we get closer, he then runs away, expecting us to come after him. It's just a game. The short answer is that we don't play his game. He runs away, we ignore him until he comes back to us. That would have been my approach in this case. Don't play his game. If he doesn't want to watch the movie (i.e. turns off the tv), then say, if that's what you want, we will do something else. And make sure it is something less enjoyable than watching a movie.

Remember: high school. Peer pressure. If the class isn't happy with it, it will hurt him more than any hallway sitting could ever do.

One last thing: it has been mentioned above, but I want to reiterate it: Don't take it personally. You can't let it affect you personally. It's not a personal thing on their part. They are just treating you like the sub. I know it's hard to not take it personally, but you have to learn to not do it. It will make your life much better.

OTOH, be sure to take the good stuff personally :)

[slingblade]

When you asked him if he thought it was funny, what did he say?

"No.......I'm sorry."

I would have been more blunt. Probably the second time he turned it off, I would have just quit trying, and said, OK, if you don't want to watch the movie, we'll have a lecture instead. At that point, I doubt anyone else would think it would be funny.

I didnt know the problem was a student playing with the remote, at first. I thought I was having tech problems and the darned thing was busted or hooked up wrong. Then, when I did find out, I thought I had taken his toy away from him--I didn't realize it had come with two remotes! When he shut off the movie, I tossed him out. Enough was E-nuff!

He skipped my class today.

But I did contact the LEAG office, and the director put in calls to the student's Grandmother, who's raising him, immediately!


One last thing: it has been mentioned above, but I want to reiterate it: Don't take it personally. You can't let it affect you personally. It's not a personal thing on their part. They are just treating you like the sub. I know it's hard to not take it personally, but you have to learn to not do it. It will make your life much better.

OTOH, be sure to take the good stuff personally :)

Naturally! Yes, to an extent, I know I am taking it personally. But I'm also awfully stressed about simply doing a good job so I can get hired. And that seems to be outweighing my worry that they "don't like me." Meh, I can live with them not liking me. No, really. Really! ;)

Thanks!

[cbish]

Slingblade
been there done that. I had a similar situation as yours with my first experience in student teaching. (didn't have the bullies, though). You've received some excellent advice. Just to reiterate. You don't have to be good now. The purpose of student teaching is to show you can run a classroom and steal everything that isn't bolted down. Don't worry about making administrators upset by sending students down. Copy as much curriculum as you can carry. If anything, develop your own style.

One thing that caught my eye. You mentioned the father of one of the trouble makers is very strict. This may explain why the boy is the way he is. If you call home, is the boy going to get smacked around? Think about it. It does happen.
cb

PS; You're going to have to have that leaky eye thing fixed before you deal with your first nutbar parent. And, there's alot of them. Actually, there's not alot of them, it just seems that way because that's who you spend 90% of your parent contact with.

[slingblade]

Cbish,

I sure wish I could fix my leaky eyes, but I'm afraid 47 years' work on the problem hasn't put much of a dent in it.

As for the student with the strict father, I was misinformed. It is a strict mother, a single parent. (Maybe I mis-heard.) She was glad to hear from me, glad I told her what Junior's been up to, and promised to speak to him. "He knows he's to respect all his elders. If he still acts up, I'm happy to come to class with him."

Class was much, much better today. It all went smoothly, and believe it or not, many of them are actually getting into Gatsby! Imagine that: no crashes, car chases, explosions, or naked women, and they're actually paying attention and already starting to comment on the film. I think this is going to be a good unit, for a change.

I am also learning to speak "student." "This is stupid" translates to "I don't understand and don't want to admit it."

Thanks to all the good advice and great support I'm getting here, this is getting much better. Even bad days don't seem as bad, because I know now that this type of thing is going to happen, even if I were the best teacher in the world.

I just wish my department could be as supportive as the folks here have been.
I am so grateful. You've all kept me from quitting, and have renewed my desire to teach. I can't thank you all enough for that.

[TragicMonkey]

He argued everything we said, throughout the entire program. He disagreed over every single point, arguing even the definitions of the words we were using.

..snip..

In the end, I doubt I made much, if any, difference to him. He had such a strong pattern of behaviour that I wonder if anything could shift him from it.

Must...resist...urge...to...ask...if...anyone...fi nds this familar!!!

[Jeff Corey]

Erm, is it some self labelled "Interesting" person?

[slingblade]

Hey, Ian to know who you're talking about!

[TragicMonkey]

I'm afraid to say, now, since nobody leaped to the correct conclusion.

[delphi_ote]

I'm afraid to say, now, since nobody leaped to the correct conclusion.

You missed part of the quote:
Anyway, this guy is not only of below average intelligence, he also has narcissistic personality disorder...

[TragicMonkey]

You missed part of the quote:

Because I agree with the narcissism, but not the below-average intelligence.

[slingblade]

Today another teacher in the English department came by my 6th hour Am Lit class and asked my mentor to step outside. After class, Lil told me that the other teacher wanted to talk to her about me. The other teacher had some possible insights as to why 6th hour is so hostile.

The students took this class because they wanted Lil to be their teacher, and they resent me for taking her place. They don't want me, they want her, and so they are making my life miserable in hopes I'll quit and Lil will take back over. They have evidently shared some of this with this other teacher, and so she came to our class, not to tell me, but to tell Lil.

Lil says neither of us should do anything to correct this. She won't speak to them, and I am just to act as if nothing is wrong, and continue.

After school, I was trying to grade some papers Lil told me needed to be taken care of today, and was also watching the remainder of Gatsby to see how much time we would need to finish it tomorrow. Lil's AP students began to file in for an afterschool meeting, so Lil asked me to take my grading and go to my morning classroom.

So, I began to pack everything up, and was heading for the AV cart, so I could take the TV back to the AV room. Lil calls out, "Don't forget to take the TV back!" and I said, "Yes, that's what I'm doing now."

"Oh," she says. "And how am I supposed to know that? Am I a mind reader or something?"

There were students in the room who heard all this very plainly.

I hate student teaching. I hate how I'm treated by students and teachers alike.

I don't know what to do.

[TragicMonkey]

After school, I was trying to grade some papers Lil told me needed to be taken care of today, and was also watching the remainder of Gatsby to see how much time we would need to finish it tomorrow. Lil's AP students began to file in for an afterschool meeting, so Lil asked me to take my grading and go to my morning classroom.

So, I began to pack everything up, and was heading for the AV cart, so I could take the TV back to the AV room. Lil calls out, "Don't forget to take the TV back!" and I said, "Yes, that's what I'm doing now."

"Oh," she says. "And how am I supposed to know that? Am I a mind reader or something?"

There were students in the room who heard all this very plainly.

I hate student teaching. I hate how I'm treated by students and teachers alike.

I don't know what to do.

This is why a monkey is unsuitable for teaching. My response would be one of the following choices:

1. Hiss while baring my fangs and leap on the desk while screeching.
2. Hurl objects at the offender.
3. Toss a polite "Suck it, *****" over my shoulder on the way out.

Oh, who am I kidding? I'd do all three.

[slingblade]

This is why a monkey is unsuitable for teaching. My response would be one of the following choices:

1. Hiss while baring my fangs and leap on the desk while screeching.
2. Hurl objects at the offender.
3. Toss a polite "Suck it, *****" over my shoulder on the way out.

Oh, who am I kidding? I'd do all three.

I would too, except I really want to get hired somewhere.
I like your advice. I only wish I could take it.

[Zbu]

I would too, except I really want to get hired somewhere.
I like your advice. I only wish I could take it.

I'm sorry for you. And if I were in your place, I'd probably see if I could go elsewhere to get a good student teaching experience. Or rather, I'd send the troublemakers out into the hall at every opportunity and let them rot until the end of the class period. They don't like it? They want the other teacher? Well, tough. Life is full of hard knocks and if they don't like it now, they sure as hell won't like it later when their temper tantrums get them fired and they end up unemployed, in debt, and only qualified to get government assistance for a few short months.

They want to be disruptive? They don't have to be in class. Put the hammer down. Children like to think they have more power than they do. The reality is that you have to show guts and if they don't want to bother, then they can sit in the hall and think about it for a few weeks on end until they learn either to shut up and swallow the disappointment. Also, be sure to fail them on the assignments they miss when they're out in the hall having fun. Treat it like an absence in the gradebook. Give them a little fear about being held back and see if they'll be vocal about that.

Don't be nice with these kids. They're interfering with the rest of the students and their ability to learn. That needs to stop. You can do it. The loudmouths don't like it? They'll never like it. And the best you can do is remove them and let them rot. They're not going to learn anyway; let them maintain that ignorance in the hallway.

[slingblade]

I'm sorry for you. And if I were in your place, I'd probably see if I could go elsewhere to get a good student teaching experience.

I can't. I called my supervisor, but he was in a class. So the head of the Edu department called me, instead. She was helpful and supportive, but:

She says the college has full disclosure with the school district. She told me I could withdraw and get another placement next term, in the fall, but that the new school would want to know why I withdrew, and they probably wouldn't accept me, due to the circumstances. IOW, I showed I couldn't handle one class out of five, so I must be no good. Well, obviously that's not an option. I have only 10 more weeks to get through, somehow. I hope I can make it.

Or rather, I'd send the troublemakers out into the hall at every opportunity and let them rot until the end of the class period. They don't like it? They want the other teacher? Well, tough. Life is full of hard knocks and if they don't like it now, they sure as hell won't like it later when their temper tantrums get them fired and they end up unemployed, in debt, and only qualified to get government assistance for a few short months.

My main problem is that I do not know what options are available to me, nor do I have a good sense of when they would be appropriate to use. Did that make sense? The student who turned the TV on and off yesterday apologized to me in front of the whole class and I smiled and accepted it graciously. Lil told me I handled that perfectly.

Then it all fell apart in the next hour.

They want to be disruptive? They don't have to be in class. Put the hammer down. Children like to think they have more power than they do. The reality is that you have to show guts and if they don't want to bother, then they can sit in the hall and think about it for a few weeks on end until they learn either to shut up and swallow the disappointment. Also, be sure to fail them on the assignments they miss when they're out in the hall having fun. Treat it like an absence in the gradebook. Give them a little fear about being held back and see if they'll be vocal about that.

Don't be nice with these kids. They're interfering with the rest of the students and their ability to learn. That needs to stop. You can do it. The loudmouths don't like it? They'll never like it. And the best you can do is remove them and let them rot. They're not going to learn anyway; let them maintain that ignorance in the hallway.

I will be doing that more often, but it seems...I don't think I can send a kid into the hall because he gave me a dirty look. There are many who sit and glare at me. It took me almost five minutes to get them to sit down and shut up today. I refused to start class until they settled. They took their time.

Lil said I did that right, as well.

My department head told me I am taking this personally. They are not angry at me, but the situation; they'd be mad if God was teaching the class instead of the teacher they wanted.

That's all well and good, but I am being affected by it personally, so is it really a surprise that's how I'd take it? I know, I know. I'm handling this wrong.

I hate these days.

[delphi_ote]

I would too, except I really want to get hired somewhere.
I like your advice. I only wish I could take it.

How much longer do you have to student teach?

[slingblade]

Ten more weeks, until the end of the semester. May 28 or thereabouts.

[Kevin_Lowe]

I'm sorry for you. And if I were in your place, I'd probably see if I could go elsewhere to get a good student teaching experience. Or rather, I'd send the troublemakers out into the hall at every opportunity and let them rot until the end of the class period. They don't like it? They want the other teacher? Well, tough. Life is full of hard knocks and if they don't like it now, they sure as hell won't like it later when their temper tantrums get them fired and they end up unemployed, in debt, and only qualified to get government assistance for a few short months.


I'm not condoning disruptive behaviour, but expecting employee-like behaviour out of kids who are in the position of inmates, not of employees, is a little bit unreasonable.

Slingblade has been put in a fairly nasty situation. The kids don't necessarily want to be there in the first place, and on top of that they have what they see as a fair grievance. Arguably they have no right to expect one teacher rather than another, but that will not stop them feeling wronged when they do not get what they wanted. Arguably they have no right to take it out on Slingblade, but she is the only target available to them.

I suppose the bright side is that it is nothing personal, and the problems in the class are not particularly a reflection of Slingblade's teaching skills.

(As a mostly unrelated aside, I recall in my school days that subs were inevitably introduced after a very stern lecture indeed about how we were not to muck up while the sub was teaching. This, of course, immediately clued us in to the fact that there were almost certainly going to be good opportunities for mucking up ahead, or else why would they try to scare us out of exploiting them? The mindset as soon as the sub entered was "Exactly how much fun can we have without the real teacher getting involved? Let's see!").

[Roadtoad]

Gee, Kevin. I'll bet you're lots of fun to be around. Sort of like going to a wake or something.

[slingblade]

No, Kevin's right, actually. Subs catch holy hell, and so do student teachers.

I have to tell the bright side, too, because there is one. This is the only class in five that's hard for me. The others are going very well. The students enjoy my classes and my assignments, they tell me they're learning new things and loving it, and that my classes are their favorite.

I've spoken to my supervisor. He's going to have a talk with Lil to get her side of it, which he should absolutely do, and also to encourage her to help me more and stop trying to force me to sink or swim. I'm drowning in this class and she's supposed to be throwing me flotation devices, not holding my head under.

[Roadtoad]

Maybe, Sling. But while Kevin may be right, he had a tendency to post some of the most negative clutter in the forum.

[Kevin_Lowe]

Maybe, Sling. But while Kevin may be right, he had a tendency to post some of the most negative clutter in the forum.

As opposed to positive and constructive posts like that one? I'm really feeling the love. :)

[screw_dog]

---snip---
Lil told me I handled that perfectly.

---snip---

Lil said I did that right, as well.

---snip---

That's all well and good, but I am being affected by it personally, so is it really a surprise that's how I'd take it? I know, I know. I'm handling this wrong.

Just thought I'd reframe some of your comments. As far as I can see, you are handling things extremely well. You are teaching 5 classes very well and are struggling with 1 class. This makes you feel terrible, which is perfectly natural. What would be abnormal is to feel fine that you have a troublesome class.

What you might like to focus on is how you can handle feeling upset, and still retain some of your sanity. Don't expect to feel good about having a difficult class. Even the Dalai Lama would struggle to do that.

Good luck, it sounds like you have come along way in just this last week. Imagine how different things will be by the end of next week!

(I hope that's reassuring).

[slingblade]

Yo, Dog,

It is reassuring! This last week was the best one so far.

Much of my problem is that I have never before done something so important to so many. I feel a great burden of responsibility.

But you are fully correct (sounds almost naughty, that). It is getting better.
It would be much worse if I hadn't had the sound advice and support found here.

In other words, it's better because you all helped me make it better. I can't thank you all enough for that.

[pgwenthold]

I've spoken to my supervisor. He's going to have a talk with Lil to get her side of it, which he should absolutely do, and also to encourage her to help me more and stop trying to force me to sink or swim. I'm drowning in this class and she's supposed to be throwing me flotation devices, not holding my head under.

After your interaction the other day, it makes it clear you should confront Lil. Not aggressively, but prod her out. Something like, "You know, I get the impression that you either don't like me, or for some reason don't want to help me. I feel I am really struggling with this class, and could really use your help. You have a lot more experience with situations like these, and I could really benefit from it."

Be sure to let her know you are just trying to be a better teacher, and she can help you in that regard.

But the key is to let her know that you are not comfortable with the current relationship. She may not appreciate the fact that she is part of your problem, and could be just attributing it to your struggles with the students.

[slingblade]

Today was better. 6th hour had actually gotten into The Great Gatsby, and got in their seats quickly so I could start the film!

Lil chatted with me after school. Seems my supervisor called her last night and told her she had "hurt my feelings" (and I wonder if that's his phrasing or hers, as I thought of her actions as more insult than injury, and it also sounds rather childish and less important). He also told her she really needs to offer me more help and support.

She asked me first why I had been so angry yesterday, and bit her head off when she reminded me about taking the TV back. I told her I didn't think I had done so, but that I was quite stressed by how the class behaved and it may have come out in my tone.

I did not, however, apologize. I wasn't rude, or arrogant, but I never said "I'm sorry." I'm not sorry, and I think sometimes an apology can make you look weak instead of gracious. It depends on the circumstances. And I apologize too darned much, anyway.

After that, she asked me what she could do to be more helpful. She said she'd only had one student teacher before this, and wasn't sure what she was supposed to be doing...gee, and does anyone else in the room feel that way, too? :)

At any rate, I told her I needed very much to know more strategies and objectives. What am I trying to teach them about literature, and what are some engaging ways to teach it?

I am teaching Spoon River Anthology next, and while we spoke about what I planned to do, I realized that text would go perfectly with the third act of Our Town, and that both works reinforce the quote from Dante's Inferno which prefaces The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock, which I read to them on the first day of the Modernism unit. Lil seemed quite impressed with my tying these three together, while admitting she'd never read Our Town and so wasn't familiar with it. But it sounded good to her.

It was a good day. I think we got our relationship back on track, tentatively, and she is more willing to help out when I need it and to stop telling me I need to figure things out for myself.

I think this is going to work. I'm actually looking forward to work instead of dreading it!

I'll keep letting you all know how it goes, but I want to thank everyone who posted for all the great support and advice. You helped keep me from quitting a profession I've always desired. I'm so grateful.

[Zbu]

That's excellent! I hope all goes well.

And I wish I was there, I'd love to see Eliot and Dante taught in school. Unfortunately I had to wait until college. :(

[TragicMonkey]

I am teaching Spoon River Anthology

I remember doing that! My teacher had us all write three of little obituaries of our own. Mine were very monkeyesque. I remember one was a closet clown, and another was a mass poisoner named Hermione Plummerchumkins.

[slingblade]

I remember doing that! My teacher had us all write three of little obituaries of our own. Mine were very monkeyesque. I remember one was a closet clown, and another was a mass poisoner named Hermione Plummerchumkins.

That will go perfectly with one of the activities I have planned! They're going to draw their own headstones, like the ones on the cover of the edition I have. They could also write their own epitaphs for the stones, and obituaries. This would be a good time to introduce Dorothy Parker, as well, with her own "epitaph": pardon my dust.

Thanks, TM!

[rjh01]

After that, she asked me what she could do to be more helpful. She said she'd only had one student teacher before this, and wasn't sure what she was supposed to be doing...gee, and does anyone else in the room feel that way, too? :)

At any rate, I told her I needed very much to know more strategies and objectives. What am I trying to teach them about literature, and what are some engaging ways to teach it?

Looks like you have one more student (Lil)! I like the second paragraph I have quoted above. The more you do that the more BOTH of you will learn.

[Roadtoad]

Spoon River Anthology? Ouch. God, did I hate that play.

[Hauteden]

It has been a couple of years since I went through my Student Teaching. Currently I have just started teaching on a limited after school level. And in a way it is like I am going through Student Teaching again. It sounds to me that you seem to be handling the students well. Discipline is a learning experience and everybody has a different style.

What I find most shocking is the manner in which your Mentors are handling you. You are right to talk with your supervisor about the difficulties you are having with them. But I must ask when was the last time you spoke with the Principal of the school in which you are teaching? Anything that happens within your school's teaching environment is their responsibilty. If your Mentors are not qualified to assist you to become a teacher then the Principal needs to be made aware. My suggestion is that you make an appointment with the Principal to discuss the situation. It would be best if your supervisor was there as well. After that meeting you could incorporate your Mentors into another meeting with the Principal.

Bottom line is you are paying money to be educated. The school district entered into an agreement with your University to provide a particular service. It seems that until recently you were not receiving that service. This should not be tolerated and you should not have to withdraw from the program for the school districts inability to uphold their end of the agreement. Remember that, in some fashion, your Mentor Volunteered to be part of the program to educate you.

All the above said, you should work as best you can with your Mentors. The rules they agreed with at the beginning of the program should be upheld. They should be observing you and giving you feedback on your progress. They should be allowing you to teach and allowing you to observe. They should also sign off on any disciplinary actions you take. In your meeting with the Principal these are somethings you should discuss, as well as other duties of your Mentors.

I had a wonderful time during my Student Teaching. We split up the Program between semesters, one semester we observed the next we taught. Doing so allowed me the opportunity to work with more Mentors. I did have students that wanted to be trouble, one of them I sent to "Alternative Schooling." I forget who posted it above, I agree with them, debate is not something a teacher should do with student.

I am glad to hear that things seem to be turning around for you. I hope the continue to get better.

Hauteden

[insertnamehere6]

Sorry Roadtoad... the Spoon River Antho isn't a play but a volume of poetry. Stop trying to post something witty and start being more constructive. It's nice to know a little about what you are posting.

Kevin,

You wrote, "Slingblade has been put in a fairly nasty situation. The kids don't necessarily want to be there in the first place, and on top of that they have what they see as a fair grievance. Arguably they have no right to expect one teacher rather than another, but that will not stop them feeling wronged when they do not get what they wanted."

And your point is?... This is the very problem every school teacher has ever had from the beginning of a "free education for all." It makes you feel symphathetic toward that burnt-out teacher who long ago thought she could do something, no? If not, give her a simple solution--we're all waiting....



Nevertheless, Kevin gives the best advice, it's nothing personal. It's no reflection of your teaching skill.



As other's have said, call you mentor teacher on all of this. If she's worth her salt, she ought to own up to her indirect foundering of your teacher-student report.

Give me a call. (I PM'd you recently.)

[delphi_ote]

If she's worth her salt, she ought to own up to her indirect foundering of your teacher-student report.

Do you mean rapport?

[slingblade]

Spoon River Anthology? Ouch. God, did I hate that play.

I'm not doing the play, though a friend of mine directed it once years ago in a local little theatre. That's how I heard of it. Then, years later, I found an old copy of the poems, and bought it just because the title was familiar. And then I was researching Modernism and found Spoon River mentioned.

I love this serendipity stuff.

[slingblade]

Give me a call. (I PM'd you recently.)

I just found that. I'm heading for bed, but I'll call tomorrow, if that's all right?
Thanks!

[athon]

Sling, there's not a lot I can say that hasn't already been said outright, or at least hinted at. The fact you have gone through probably one of the hardest pre-service teaching periods I've ever heard of and are sticking with it has earned my respect. Be proud of what you're doing. The system has its flaws, and you've found probably the biggest of them.

Keep up the good work. And again, if you want any help with behavioural management or classroom skills, just ask and I'm more than happy to try to help you out.

Athon

[Kevin_Lowe]

And your point is?... This is the very problem every school teacher has ever had from the beginning of a "free education for all." It makes you feel symphathetic toward that burnt-out teacher who long ago thought she could do something, no? If not, give her a simple solution--we're all waiting....

I was replying to another poster who, as I read it, was suggesting a "get tough" policy with the unruly class.

My point was that this isn't necessarily the best strategy (certainly not by itself) for dealing with a group who think they have a grievance. In my view it's likely to result in more trouble rather than less, at least at first, and if you put yourself in the students' position I imagine you will understand why. More trouble sounds to me like the last thing Slingblade needs.

I think the strategy Slingblade is actually pursuing, of involving the parents and working more closely with Lil, is a much better one.

[Roadtoad]

Sorry Roadtoad... the Spoon River Antho isn't a play but a volume of poetry. Stop trying to post something witty and start being more constructive. It's nice to know a little about what you are posting.

I saw it as a play. I still didn't like it. Not trying to be witty, just being my normal grumpy self.

(Exacerbated by reading Ulysses. I swear, I'm a masochist.)

[Roadtoad]

I was replying to another poster who, as I read it, was suggesting a "get tough" policy with the unruly class.

My point was that this isn't necessarily the best strategy (certainly not by itself) for dealing with a group who think they have a grievance. In my view it's likely to result in more trouble rather than less, at least at first, and if you put yourself in the students' position I imagine you will understand why. More trouble sounds to me like the last thing Slingblade needs.

I think the strategy Slingblade is actually pursuing, of involving the parents and working more closely with Lil, is a much better one.

Wait.... You and I agree on something? :jaw-dropp

[Pragmatist]

O.K. here's some of my thoughts. There has been a lot of excellent advice in this thread from other teachers. I have a lot of teaching experience too, and I've taught various classes including groups that had been classified "unteachable" without any problems. I've handled classes of up to 100 students at one time and I've never lost control of a class. On more than one occasion I've been called in to help other teachers who had lost control of classes and I've always been able to establish order quickly. Now, some of my ideas and techniques may be controversial. I don't care - my success record is outstanding and speaks for itself. I love teaching, it's never a chore for me and it's always fun - and I genuinely like my students and I am quite certain that they usually like me too. My only problems have been with stupid administrators and ridiculous rules, but I usually got away with breaking rules simply because my classes were so successful.

Athon's analogy of sharks is quite appropriate sometimes, although I prefer the idea of a wolf pack. There is a hierarchy to the wolf pack, the wolves will roll over for the alpha male, but if the alpha is shown to be weak, the others will turn on him. You are basically being thrown into a war for social status. Everybody wants to be top dog (including you). The ones that have the strength and confidence to take control end up as the alphas. The others support the alphas because they are implicitly relying on the goodwill of the alphas - in other words by throwing their weight behind the leader they implicitly expect the leader will support them if they are attacked - and that does often happen because if you need to deal with one of the secondaries, the alpha may well launch into you because he sees a way of further establishing his status over you. But, since everybody wants to be top dog, if any of the others see the alpha show weakness then they will make their bid for the alpha role.

Firstly, the most important thing to bear in mind before you can "fix" the kids is to fix yourself.

1. Be enthusiastic about what you teach. NEVER, ever try to "fake it". If you are asked to teach something, study it yourself until you find something interesting about it. No matter what you are given there is always some aspect of it which can be of interest. Your job as a teacher is to find those things and engage the interest of the students. I am a great believer in the principle that teachers don't "teach" subjects but rather they encourage learning. There is a subtle difference between those things that is critically important. You can't force someone to learn, but you can draw their attention to something interesting and explore it with them - hopefully the journey then becomes a cooperative venture rather than an adversarial game of trying to force something on them that they don't really want. In a way it's a sort of marketing - your job is to make the product (the subject being taught) look attractive to the buyers (the students). People don't "buy" boring "products" or things they don't need. So you have to sell it to them by making it look interesting and sexy and desirable. If they start to want it themselves they won't be fighting with you over it - if anything you'll find yourself struggling to keep up with their hunger for it! :)

2. What you teach doesn't matter half as much as how you teach. If you teaching a particular book then it doesn't matter whether they follow and remember every line of the story - look for hidden messages, interesting viewpoints, controversy, challenge - anything that might be exciting about the ideas expressed in the book. Be prepared to diverge. If you are following a novel set in some historical period then go aside to explore the social structure of the period in question and be prepared to show them how that society was both different and similar to today's. Don't be afraid to set the book aside and go off topic - you can always come back to the book. But the first rule to remember is that if you hate the book and/or the subject, if you are not enthusiastic about it, if it bores you, that will show - and it will bore them. If they are bored they are going to disrupt.

3. The most disruptive students are more often than not the most intelligent and capable ones in the class. It may not seem so, but very often the root cause of disruptive behaviour in the classroom is boredom. They are looking for stimulation. A boring teacher droning on about something that the teacher clearly hates is not going to excite and engage them. So to them they are being subjected to a form of subtle torture and they want to take out their frustration on the cause of that - which of course is you...! :)

4. Be prepared to "go to war". Psyche yourself up if necessary. Before a class take a few minutes to sit somewhere quiet, take a series of deep breaths, relax and if necessary tell yourself how invincible you are. You are about to enter a battle of wits - so remind yourself that in a battle of wits that you are heavily armed and your opponents are probably not. You have the advantage, you have nothing to fear and you cannot be defeated. Do this as often as necessary so that when you enter the classroom you enter relaxed, calm and self assured. If you genuinely believe in your invincibility it will show and it will place you at an immediate advantage, your opponents will be scared by your apparent self-confidence and it will make them that much more tentative.

5. During a "battle" remember the basic rules of strategy and warfare. Use the time tested techniques of warfare (I'm not kidding!). Remember old adages - the first one to bear in mind is "divide and conquer". You want to undermine the class alpha in front of the others when he acts up. If you work it right, the others will go after him and not you. To begin with, establish who "the enemy" is. Clearly identify in your own mind who the key supporters of the alpha are. The most vocal ones are likely to be the ones who want a shot at alpha themselves. So help them, foment a coup! :D In other words, try to make the alpha look ridiculous in front of his supporters and at the same time try to support one of the supporters. This is hard to explain. Sometimes techniques like sarcasm can be extremely effective - if you can find some way to laugh at the alpha, and compliment one of his vocal supporters at more or less the same time, you are shifting the balance of power. Manipulate them. This sounds horrible and will shock some people - but in reality it's a highly effective technique if used judiciously - but remember above all, the objective is not to "destroy" the enemy, don't go too far, all you are trying to do is disarm and disorient your opponents long enough to establish that you are the real alpha. If you do it right, you will find it will only need to be done once or twice and after that your status will go unchallenged.

6. Be firm and inflexible in terms of rules. As others have said here, spell out the rules clearly and unambigiously at the beginning. Make sure that there is a definite consequence for every conceivable infraction. The moment an infraction occurs, apply the well known penalty - there and then, without exception and without any flexibility at all. If they go down on their knees and beg for forgiveness, don't give way, implement the penalty anyway. The idea you are trying to instill is that the rules are absolute and unquestionable (as are the consequences). There is no flexibility in the rules, the rules are sacrosanct, and you are an inflexible enforcer, you can't be bought off by contrition, moved by tears, negotiated with or anything else. You will never give way and you will never stop. You are "the terminator" so to speak.

7. Never ever lose emotional control. Never lose your temper (which doesn't mean that you can't show annoyance, but minimise it). Try to laugh off challenges. For example, take the situation with the remote control. Laugh at it, tell them it was a good joke, but then with a smirk on your face apply a draconian penalty - in a way you're saying to them, "Look, you didn't get to me, I'm laughing, but I'm the one who's going to have the last laugh though because the joke is on you..." Even better actually do laugh at applying the penalty - make it part of your joke - if the others end up laughing at the perpetrator being punished he's lost status. You want to instill the idea that a punishment is not martyrdom or a sign of status, rather that it's a sign of their own weakness and stupidity. Only fools need to be punished, and fools should be laughed at, not encouraged.

8. Never hestitate. If you don't know what to do next, stall, shift attention elsewhere. If all else fails tell them you have to go to the bathroom and get out the room for a few moments and think of something quick. Try to never show them that you don't know what you are doing. They must have the idea that you are always as much in control of yourself as you are in control of them. Always act swiftly and decisively. If you make a mistake always apologise and fix it, there and then and move on. Never stubborn it out. For example, imagine you are in the middle of a lesson and one of the students says, "You are wrong about that!". Never ignore the challenge, never say, "Yes I am, just shut up!" Instead turn the heat up on them - turn to the student and ask them to explain why and how you are wrong in front of the class - now they have the attention and they have to justify themselves, not you. Listen to what they have to say. If they are definitely wrong then try to make them realise their own error by asking pertinent questions, use analogies, metaphors, give them hypotheticals to solve - the more you keep the pressure on them, the less it is on you. If they are right, acknowledge that they are right. Tell the class you made a mistake, apologise for it and thank the person who drew your attention to it. But calmly, and quietly and above all with an air of assured confidence. If you don't know the answer, and you're not sure if you are right, admit it. Tell them you don't know the answer. If it's possible to look it up there and then, do so and try to involve the class in helping you, ask them if they have some source of information, get them involved in searching for the truth. If it can't be looked up there and then and the point isn't critical to the rest of the lesson, then assure them you will investigate further but for the moment just move on. If you can't proceed with the lesson then stop it there and then and find something else to keep them occupied for the rest of the time - i.e. take time out to discuss some earlier point in more detail etc. After the class look up the answer and next day, start the class where you stopped and give them the answer you promised you'd give.

9. Encourage interaction. Encourage questioning, discussion, involvement. Never drone on and have them sitting there bored. Make it clear that you would rather have a lively debate about ideas than simply droning through the subject matter. It's better to have a lively off-topic debate than have them sitting bored and distracted through a bad lesson. The more engaged and involved they are the less likely they are to disrupt. If someone cracks a joke, laugh at it and crack a better one and so on. That's another good point - try to make them laugh every once in a while, have a few quips handy. You should be aiming for maximum engagement and involvement. If there is a student sitting quietly saying nothing, draw them out, point to them and say, "You look like you don't agree, what do you think of this?" and so on... If they respond with no real answer like, "No I'm O.K. I agree", then probe further, take a devil's advocate position if necessary, criticise your own idea and say, "Come on, surely you must have some thoughts of your own about this". But don't flog a dead horse, if you can't engage them move on.

9. If you can engage with most of the class, and an alpha tries to disrupt he'll quickly get put put down by the others. If they are genuinely interested they won't have any time for his antics.

10. In a worst case scenario, if you completely lose control then retire to your desk, take a deep breath, sit down and try to relax as much as possible. Let them do what they want for a while, just sit there quietly, calmly and ideally with a slight smile on your face. As soon as they calm down (which they will do pretty quickly because you sitting there like that will unnerve them), apply the appropriate penalty to the whole class immediately. Don't discuss it. Just let them know that certain behaviours cause certain punishments and if they really want the punishment then that's fine with you. Never show remorse about punishments or tell them that you are disappointed or anything like that. Make it clear that you don't apply punishments, punishments are automatic consequences of certain actions and that you don't care about it one way or the other, you're just there to do the enforcing, that's your job and it's not negotiable. The whole key to applying punishment is an air of nonchalance or indifference.

11. Enjoy yourself! Really! Lessons should be fun for you too. If they're not, make them so - you are God in that classroom, you can do whatever you want, so aim to have fun yourself while youre doing it! Never take yourself too seriously and be prepared to laugh at yourself.

12. Apply the same techniques to your collegues if they act up! If you are given a bad lesson plan by someone else, fix it and give them a revised plan back, tell them what works better. Don't be bullied, be assured and confident.

13. No matter how you feel, if you are tired, hung over or whatever, act lively and enthusiastic. Project boundless energy (even if it exhausts you at the end of the day!). But above all don't be like a wet sponge!

14. Try to cultivate the attitude that the lesson is yours. The purpose of the lesson is for you to enjoy yourself, that is your one and only aim - put all other aims out of your mind. You'll be surprised that that actually is beneficial to all and in many ways is one of the greatest facilitators of learning in others.

Those are just some rough ideas that I hope will help. These ideas are based on my own experience and what I have also seen work for others. Above all, don't panic. Treat the whole experience like an adventure and an experiment, be flexible and be prepared to change to meet the circumstances. Don't dwell on failures and worry about mistakes, don't take things personally, instead concentrate on how exciting the next lesson is going to be and how much you're going to enjoy it. It'll take some time to get your stride but treat it like one big game and you'll find it works out very differently.

[slingblade]

Pragmatist (how apt):

What excellent advice. Mind if I cut and paste it for a little manual I can keep?

I do have a passion for my subject. I am English, in all its aspects. I love literature, poetry, analysis, grammar, spelling, writing, composing, editing....I love words and wordsmiths. I can't do anything else; there is nothing else. Nothing else enthralls me as reading, writing, and mechanics do.

Some of what you suggest, I'm doing. The rest, I can learn to do.

Thanks. You should write a book, and I'm serious.

[cbish]

Sorry Roadtoad... the Spoon River Antho isn't a play but a volume of poetry. Stop trying to post something witty and start being more constructive. It's nice to know a little about what you are posting.
Zang Bro! I'd better get you a beer! Roadtoad is a swell dude. Cut him some slack, he lives in North Highlands. I'll e-mail you some dirty pictures to make you feel better.

[athon]

Nice post, Pragmatist. I agree with every word. Excellent advice.

Athon

[insertnamehere6]

Zang Bro! I'd better get you a beer! Roadtoad is a swell dude. Cut him some slack, he lives in North Highlands. I'll e-mail you some dirty pictures to make you feel better.


Yeah, I retract that last post. After reading 140+ essays on Gatsby, I got pretty tired and grumpy. (Confusing report with rapport should have been a sign of it all.)

I actually do play nice with others, I promise.

PS. Now bring that beer over! I sure need it after the week I had. And don't forget the dirty pics.

[cbish]

Yeah, I retract that last post. After reading 140+ essays on Gatsby, I got pretty tired and grumpy. (Confusing report with rapport should have been a sign of it all.)

I actually do play nice with others, I promise.

PS. Now bring that beer over! I sure need it after the week I had. And don't forget the dirty pics.

I know you play nice! And, I forgot to mention that I'm trying to recruit Roadtoads son to teach at your school!

[Roadtoad]

Yeah, I retract that last post. After reading 140+ essays on Gatsby, I got pretty tired and grumpy. (Confusing report with rapport should have been a sign of it all.)

I actually do play nice with others, I promise.

PS. Now bring that beer over! I sure need it after the week I had. And don't forget the dirty pics.

My condolences. Even ONE essay on Gatsby would make damned near anyone irritable. (Then again, reading Gatsby pretty much has the same effect.)

[Pragmatist]

Pragmatist (how apt):

What excellent advice. Mind if I cut and paste it for a little manual I can keep?

I do have a passion for my subject. I am English, in all its aspects. I love literature, poetry, analysis, grammar, spelling, writing, composing, editing....I love words and wordsmiths. I can't do anything else; there is nothing else. Nothing else enthralls me as reading, writing, and mechanics do.

Some of what you suggest, I'm doing. The rest, I can learn to do.

Thanks. You should write a book, and I'm serious.

Please feel free to do what you want with it! :) And if it works for you, pass it on!

Your passion for your subject means that you are a teacher. That's all there is to it! Your mission (should you choose to accept it! :)) is to pass on your passion.

It's funny, people are always telling me I should write books (on all kinds of things) unfortunately I never seem to have the time...maybe one day.

Oh, and thanks to Athon too for the kind words.

[Skeptic]

Slingblade:

Perhaps I'm wrong here, but it seems to me your mentors are doing just what they're supposed to be doing. They help you with stuff like start time and schedules, which is nice, but leave you to deal with difficult students on your own since that's just what you're supposed to be learning to do.

I don't think they're trying to hurt you at all, just to teach you. (By the way, how do you call someone who teaches a student teacher? A student teacher's teacher?)

Again I could be wrong.

[slingblade]

Slingblade:

Perhaps I'm wrong here, but it seems to me your mentors are doing just what they're supposed to be doing. They help you with stuff like start time and schedules, which is nice, but leave you to deal with difficult students on your own since that's just what you're supposed to be learning to do.

I don't think they're trying to hurt you at all, just to teach you. (By the way, how do you call someone who teaches a student teacher? A student teacher's teacher?)

Again I could be wrong.

:) They're called "mentor teachers."

First, you're only getting my side of things. My account is obviously biased, though I'm trying to tell what I think happened, the best I can.

Second, student teaching is part of my education. I paid a full semester's tuition for this experience. I'm still being taught how to teach. Telling me to guess at things I don't yet know isn't the most effective way to teach me anything. Everyone is different, however. Maybe such a method would work for you. But it doesn't work for me, and I'm paying for this. I'd like my teachers to use effective methods from which I can learn, since it's my money and my career, not theirs. If guessing is all that's needed, why should I even have a mentor?

Since I began receiving solid strategies both here and there, my teaching and my confidence has improved. At first, this was so hard, I wanted only to quit, and only my student loans were keeping me there. Naturally, I hated it all.

Now, after only a week of real help from several sources, I'm enjoying this and hoping I can get hired soon. I want to do this for as long as I am able to do it.

What teachers do is too serious a matter to leave to mere rookie guesswork, IMO.

YMMV. :)

ETA: I didn't think they were necessarily trying to hurt me, either....though some days, I did wonder....

[alfaniner]

The only thing I remember about Spoon River Anthology is wondering when we'd get to the part about the spoon.

Perhaps you want to address that up front.

[drkitten]

Perhaps I'm wrong here, but it seems to me your mentors are doing just what they're supposed to be doing. They help you with stuff like start time and schedules, which is nice, but leave you to deal with difficult students on your own since that's just what you're supposed to be learning to do.

That's a piss-poor mentor -- or teacher --, then.

My partner is taking a non-credit class on peb page design at a local technical school. I woudn't feel that the value-for-service was justifiable if all the tech school did was to take care of "start time and schedules," but otherwise was just throwing the students into a lab full of computer equipment and software and saying "hey, deal with web page design on your own since that's just what you're supposed to be learning."

A teacher is supposed to instruct. At the very least, a teacher should give examples of how to do a task, and feedback about how the students' initial attempts at the task were/weren't effective and how it could be improved. If slingblade is having trouble dealing with difficult students, teach her/him how to deal with difficult students, dammit!

[slingblade]

Is there a book one would recommend on how to grade an essay?
I think I grade at a college level, and don't know how to do it for HS students.

Do I mark all their errors, or not? They can have a lot of errors, and marking them all feels too harsh to me, but letting some things go allows them to say "I thought it was correct, or you would have marked it off, right?"

How can I find out what they know, before we write? I did some pre-assessment at the start of the semester, but I didn't think to include essay mechanics and forms.
I thought they were familiar with MLA style, and some of the other Eng. teachers at my school now (after my disaster) tell me it's been taught before, but that students forget it so fast that when it's brought up again, they feel as if they've never seen it. I briefly went over in-text citations and works cited pages before the last essay, and they seemed to be familiar with it--when I asked for questions or concerns, there were none.

Now that they've gotten their research papers back, they issued howls of outrage that I would mark them off for not having these things they say they don't know how to do. I asked one class why they didn't speak up when I asked if they understood, and they told me they didn't know enough to know what questions to ask. I've been there before, myself, but can I consider they're telling the truth?

My mentors tell me to watch out for students playing dumb in an effort to get out of doing something. How can I tell the difference, or is this another one of those "only after years of experience" types of learning they keep telling me about?

So, is there a book on the subject?
Thanks.

[Roadtoad]

Chris had a similar problem with students in his website building class. They'd play stupid, thinking he'd let them slide. Then, he'd sit down right next to them, show them he knew what they were doing, and they'd wind up looking foolish in addition to having to do the assignment they were given in the first place.

You can't afford to play it soft, Sling, nor can they. If you let them slide on grammar, spelling, factuality, and that sort of thing, it's going to hurt them further on down the road. You know this, and so should they. In the end, they'll appreciate an honest teacher far more than an easy one.

[cbish]

The problem RT is time. This is a fundamental problem with English teaching, and to some degree, teaching in general; too many students to give quality feedback (at least written feedback). If you had 10 students, you'd be Teacher of the World. With 180 students, you're going to kill yourself, which has been known to happen to beginning teachers. My Master Teacher told me it was my job to exercise them, not the other way around.

As far as grading, there are many rubricks available. Try on-line. Your school should have some standards in this area (but, I can't say I'd be suprised if they don't or if it's not uniform). One way we do it here is 50% grammar, 50% content (for which a rubrick is followed and you have a check list).

Another thing would be to limit the number of large essays and have more small ones. What I have found, is high school students need repitition in small bites. Writing two big essays a semester doesn't teach anyone to write. Writing two one-pagers a week, does.

[Jeff Corey]

I second the notion of small assignments, especially at first. I teach a lab with reports due in APA style. The first lab was 4 pages - no introduction or references. The next is longer, with internal footnotes and references. Even with a manual on APA style required, they still have problems with it.

[jj]

My condolences. Even ONE essay on Gatsby would make damned near anyone irritable. (Then again, reading Gatsby pretty much has the same effect.)

I'll ask my 15 year old if I can post what she wrote about Gatsby. It was sorta scathing, really.

[Roadtoad]

I'll ask my 15 year old if I can post what she wrote about Gatsby. It was sorta scathing, really.

I can imagine that. Your munchkins don't seem to be the type to tolerate fools. And in the end, Gatby was a fool. A romantic fool, but still a fool.

(The fact that Tom and Daisy simply walk away from the mess they created is more than enough reason for Jordan to make the declaration at the end that she does. And frankly, I don't blame her.)

[Renfield]

6. Make it fun! I had a group of guys who wouldn't stop swearing. Every second word was c___, f___ or s___. In the end we made a card game where we each started with ten cards and you gave a card to someone else if you heard them swear. At the end of each session we gave out a prize to who ever had the least cards.


So kids are dropping F bombs in class, and you end up rewarding the one who does it the least? I knew things had changed since my day, but that's something. A student would have been sent to ISS at the very least if that had happened once in my day. And you know, it very rarely happened in any class I remember. How much class time gets spent going back and forth with these students?

Guess I'm just an old cermudgeon, but I'm not sure about some of these new education philosophies that deny any kind of negative consequences for problem students.

[screw_dog]

So kids are dropping F bombs in class, and you end up rewarding the one who does it the least? I knew things had changed since my day, but that's something. A student would have been sent to ISS at the very least if that had happened once in my day. And you know, it very rarely happened in any class I remember. How much class time gets spent going back and forth with these students?
You must have missed the part where I mentioned that I work with offenders. Violent, adult, male offenders in a prison. I'm trying to rehabilitate them, so sometimes one has to get a bit creative...

[screw_dog]

I should add a little more about that actvity with the cards.

The point of the activity was simply to raise the guys awareness of their swearing. It appeared to be very automatic, with most of them struggling to even recognise the amount of swearing they were doing. Actual transcript:

...
Him: He wouldn't f**ing let her!"
Me: Please watch your language.
Him: I didn't swear.
Me: What did you say?
Him: I said "He wouldn't f**ing let her!"
Me: Please don't swear.
Him: I didn't f***ing swear!
...

With growing anger on his part. Using the card system actually helped these guys become a lot more aware of what they were saying. Then, at least, they only swore when they meant it.

[slingblade]

Sixth hour gave me hell again today.

I dared to tell them that the Great Depression is considered to have begun on Black Tuesday, Oct. 29th, and they immediately began to get angry, tell me I was wrong, and thrust their history books under my nose to show me the date was actually Oct. 24th, and I should have said Black Thursday.

I explained to them that both dates are correct, depending on what one means. Oct. 24th is the first day of the stock market crash, but Oct. 29 is considered the actual "day" the Great Depression began.

I tried to explain the importance of my use of the word "considered." In point of fact, the Depression did not begin on a particular day, but was the culmination of years of careless financial "strategies." However, historians generally point to Oct. 29, 1929 and say, "That was the day it all crashed."

They wouldn't even let me get the first sentence out of my mouth. They verbally ganged up on me and I couldn't do a thing about it.

I feel so stupid.

[rjh01]

At least they knew enough to know something about the depression. After all how many of them lived though it? Or even their parents?

Maybe give them another lesson about how you can get more than one correct answer for a question.

I am sure the teachers will be able to give you more advice. I am not a teacher.

[slingblade]

What I need to know are ways in which to effectively deal with a class that has mutinied. They know I am unskilled, and they know in my place they would be uncertain, and I am, and so they have decided to have fun with me.

I need to know what teachers do when this occurs.

They are at the point where they simply shout me down, so lecturing won't help now. I'm outnumbered one to thirty, and they have discovered they can simply drown me out. I don't know how to manage this classroom. I need strategies.

Thanks, though.

[TragicMonkey]

Fire, and lots of it!

[clarsct]

Now I feel really bad for all the subs we paid hell to.

We had a few that vowed to never darken our doors again. Our class sent a Band teacher to a mental ward. Literally.

Hmmmmmmm.

Respect is the name of the game. We never respected...hmmm...what was his name? Anyway, he showed very quickly that we had no reason to believe a thing he said. He also took over for a very popular teacher who had to move away, which helped very little. The poor guy was probably just trying to do a job, but I guess we didn't help much.

I think Pragmatist had the right idea. You're going to war with these kids, and they are ARMED. Only by being a good opponent are you going to earn their respect. Our class could respect someone who had bested us. It's a little wierd, but it worked. The only sub we behaved for was an 80+year old lady, and that was because she was just too sweet to torture.

We left the Ex-Marine DI crying on the Gym Floor...the fat guy who tried to do our theatre class walked out halfway through...man, McCann was PISSED when he got back..


These kids are proud of being tough and smart. You'd better be tougher and smarter.

I still feel like I ought to apologize, though..,,

I WAS one of those kids...

[slingblade]

Y'know, Clarsct, I'm angry with these kids, but I don't blame them for this.

I blame my program, my mentors, and myself.

I was not properly prepared for student teaching, for one thing. What is it they say in medical school..."see one, do one" or something like that? There is a vast difference, as I'm sure folks here know, between being a student and learning what is taught, and being the teacher and teaching what was learned. We saw a lot. We didn't get to do a lot, by way of practice.

My program did not offer practical experience in teaching my subject. We had one class on "methods of teaching English," one hour per week. In it, we learned how to write a CSAP (state proficiency test for students) question, and we graded one essay, for practice. This was not enough.

In "Literacy" we did a six-week lesson-study, based on the Japanese model. This taught us how to work with other teachers to develop lessons. It did not teach us how to work with students. It did not teach us how to teach reading.

I have repeatedly asked my mentors what I can do, specifically, in the way of classroom management: what discipline options do I have? So far, I know I can call the students' parents. No one has yet told me that I can give students detention, or how that's done. My mentors cut off my hands by telling me I, personally, should not send any students to the office for discipline, as this "will make you look bad." My options are obviously limited, and the students know it.

I know how to teach writing, as I've been a self-taught writer for almost thirty years now. No one ever taught me how to teach reading, and three of my five classes are reading classes, including sixth hour. I'm doing very well in the writing classes. I know what and how to teach, there. The school at which I work, however, has taken Comp/Lit and divided it into Comp classes and Lit classes. Comp students don't do much reading, and Lit students don't do much formal writing. This is counterintuitive and counterproductive, but it's what I have to work with.

The word "strategy" keeps beng tossed at me. What strategies are you using to teach reading?

My reply: I don't know; what strategies are there?
Them: Well, what do you want students to learn from this reading?
Me: I don't know; what things are there to learn?
Them: Well, have them do a "compare and contrast."
Me: Okay. Why will I have them do that?
Them: So they can learn to compare and contrast.
Me: Okay, and what will they get from that?
Them: Well, you'll have to figure that out for yourself.

This is ineffective. I can get no better answers than that. Folks here have told me to document everything that happens in the class, to back myself up. I agree, but when am I supposed to do that? While I'm teaching? If so, I'll have no time to teach. I'll have to stop my lessons in order to go get paper and pen and write. I'll have to do this a dozen times during the lesson. I can't keep it in my head to write down later; I've tried, and I forget most of the details, and can only give the big picture.

After Friday's debacle, I have decided to arm myself with a pad and pen at the podium. Names of students who give me grief will be written down. I will find out, beforehand, how to administer detention. I will begin giving these students after-school detention, during which they will write essays on whatever I was teaching that day. These essays will not be graded.

I hope they quickly ask me why they have to do this when it's an obvious waste of their time. I will then offer them a lesson on personal responsibility: if you can't learn this in class, you will learn it after class. Yes, it is a waste of your time. You have wasted everyone else's time in class with your behavior, so it's only fair that the favor is returned to you. Now, you can choose to act responsibly and maturely in class, or you can choose to accept the discipline of others until you learn to discipline yourself.

I am going to go to the principal's secretary and have her explain the esoteric mystery that is discipline. What is the school's discipline policy, and what is the proper chain of command, and so forth. She knows and likes me, and I am sure she'll help me. My mentor should have told me this, in great detail, from day one. Going to the principal's secretary ought to show them that something huge is being left out of my instruction.

Thanks, folks. Any other suggestions on either how to teach reading, or how to manage the classroom, are always welcomed...indeed, begged.

[slingblade]

(Sling runs back to copy/paste those great tips Pragmatist gave her. She temporarily forgot them, and regrets it now!)

:)


ETA: my former Lit Crit prof just sent me some definitive strategies for teaching reading. Bless his heart, I know what to do now!

(It's been two years since I've had an English class, and those taught me how to analyze lit, not how to teach analyzing lit. I've discovered a widdle bit of difference, there.)

[wollery]

Hi slingblade,
first off let me say that I haven't read all of this thread, but I think I've got the salient points. If I repeat anything other people have said I apologise.

Most importantly it sounds to me that, other than this one particular class, you're doing great.

I did my teacher training 12 years ago and also had some rough experiences. One class in particular were really difficult. I asked their usual teacher (not my mentor) what I was doing wrong. Her immediate response was, "Nothing, they're just a bunch of s***s!" although she did go on to give me some pointers.

The bottom line is, a small number of teachers can control their classes because they have physical presence, a few because kids just like them and want to please them. However, most teachers have to work at it, and you'll never stop learning.

My first rule, which seems to be a problem you're having, was never have a shouting match with your class. I taught science (I don't teach anymore, I decided to go back to academia) so it was extremely important that I could be heard by every student, particularly during practicals.

To this end, don't engage them unless they're speaking in a civil, calm tone and one at a time. One of the earlier posts mentioned this strategy - just go back to your desk, sit down, smile, do something else, maybe get out some papers from another class to grade. Time how long it takes for them to calm down. Give them a detention that lasts that long. You're in charge, so make it clear that they can only engage you on your terms, and that if they don't they'll suffer for it. I learned this strategy after having to take a week off because I lost my voice!!

As long as you're playing by their rules you'll get nowhere.

There's nothing wrong with crying or kicking inanimate objects, just wait until you get home. Never give any sign in class that you are anything other than completely calm.

I'm not sure that there's anything more I can add, just to encourage you to keep at it, it seems like something you really want to do. Don't let one hard experience put you off.

[slingblade]

Today the students behaved and the teachers attacked.

Well, I no longer need advice, thank goodness. I know from now on, no matter what happens, all I can do is tough it out somehow for two more months.

Won't be taking any job at this school, however. Not that they would offer me one after today. What a nightmare.

Anyway, I wanted to thank everyone for all the great advice and support. It's meant a lot, and you are such kind people to be so helpful.

So, thanks. :)

[Larry Barrieau]

Slingblade, this is how I handle the class; 1. "Quiet Please" not raising my voice and then waiting a few seconds. If it continues, 2. "Be quiet", again not raising my voice. If it continues, 3. "You have a detention." This usually works for small things like talking, fooling around etc.

If it continues after assigning the detention I boot them out. Ask your friend in the office for a copy of the teacher's manual. Every building should have them. The school disciplinary code should be there. After you've done everything you can in class, send them to the office and follow the manual. There will be a form of some kind to fill out.

Don't be afraid to kick them out. You owe it to the ones who are not misbehaving. And you don't want a job at that school anyway so you're not worried about that.

I think you'll see a difference after you've kicked the worst ones out and they see you mean buisness.

[screw_dog]

Today the students behaved and the teachers attacked.
So, what happened? I initially read it as "the teachers attacked the students", but did you mean that they attacked you? Are you ok?

[slingblade]

Don't be afraid to kick them out. You owe it to the ones who are not misbehaving. And you don't want a job at that school anyway so you're not worried about that.


I was told by my morning mentor yesterday that a parent was trying to have me removed for picking on her boy. The mentor told me the vice-principal was in a rage, that I was in terrible trouble, and that my future was in jeopardy. All Idid was call the mom, as my mentors advised over and over, and it pissed mom off. I almost lost my entire career over a freaking phone call home.

It wasn't until hours later that I was told I had done nothing wrong and no one but the mom was mad at me, and that we'd have a meeting and get her straightened out.

No, I don't want a job at this school. Today (and just today, I hope) I am so discouraged, I don't even want to go back. I hate my mentors. My afternoon mentor, the one who dumped me into this class from hell without proper preparation, offered to take 6th hour back from me after Spring break.

She can have them. Now I just have to hang on until May and get the hell out of there. No wonder there's a frigging teacher shortage.

[screw_dog]

Thats awful! I almost can't believe the lack of support you are getting. I wish I could be of more help. Hang in there. I know you'll get through it, and if your posts are anything to go by, I know you'll be an awesome teacher.

[slingblade]

Thanks, folks. I don't know how I'm going to deal with this, but I know one thing. They are not going to stop me from becoming a teacher. These kids are learing things from me; I'm helping them become better adults and better people in general, and I love that aspect of this job.

These women are not going to take this away from me, if I have anything to say about it.

I may not.

But by god, if I get kicked out, it won't be my fault.

Bless your hearts and thank you so much, Larry and ScrewDog, for supporting me.

You know what's sad? I'm getting more support on this forum than I am from my program. I'm so grateful for it, don't get me wrong, but we all know that's not how this is supposed to work.

Thank you.

[Zbu]

Slingblade,

You're one hell of a teacher. Don't let them get you down, apparently what you have fallen into is the most incompetent school and teacher-group ever imagined.

Keeping holding on, everything will get better. :)

[pgwenthold]

I was told by my morning mentor yesterday that a parent was trying to have me removed for picking on her boy. The mentor told me the vice-principal was in a rage, that I was in terrible trouble, and that my future was in jeopardy. All Idid was call the mom, as my mentors advised over and over, and it pissed mom off. I almost lost my entire career over a freaking phone call home.


One thing I recommend in this situation is to go immediately to the vice-principal. If the VP is po'd with you, he needs to tell you directly and not going through your mentors. Or if he does go to your mentors (they are, ultimately, responsible for your actions) they should be owning up to the fact that they told you to do it. Either way, you have every reason to think you did the right thing and no reason to fear the wrath of the VP. Of course, in the interaction with the parent, he better be taking your side.

[slingblade]

:cs:

I went to the VP myself this morning to express my concerns. It went very well! She had scheduled a meeting for that afternoon with my mentors, my supervisor, and me, but she graciously listened to me this morning and reassured me, "This is not the student teaching experience we want you to have! We will fix this."

And this afternoon, she did.

No, my mentors never 'fessed up, but a couple of times I gave them quick, pointed looks, such as when the VP said, "You must feel free to send any problem students to the office and let us deal with them. We expect you to have to do that once in a while, and it will in no way reflect badly on you."
(My mentors had told me never to do this, and it turns out they were wrong, wrong, wrong.)

Hee.

After Spring Break, we will tell the 6th hour students that this phase of my student teaching has ended and I am moving on to the observaton phase. I will still be in the classroom, and will still teach sometimes, but I will no longer be going solo with them after this. That way, they won't think they won and got rid of me. And I'm not going anywhere, so even if they suspect this was due to their efforts, they may be dismayed to see I'm actually still right there.

The VP told me, "We don't expect you to have to deal with a classroom this out-of-control in this phase of your career. And if you were a teacher, we wouldn't leave you to deal with such a class on your own, either."

I'm so pleased at how this turned out. But though I've said it already, I want to say again, I could never have gotten through this without your help. You all gave me the courage I needed to stay with it until I could get it addressed and mended. Thanks so much.

[alfaniner]

I've been teaching for 20+ years. The first 15 years -- I don't think I know what the hell I was doing. But every bad experience made me a better teacher.

[screw_dog]

Go Sling!

I'm so glad that the VP has finally given you the support that you've needed all along. Seriously glad! :)

I'll take your thanks in the form of help next time I need advice, ok? ;)

[slingblade]

I've been teaching for 20+ years. The first 15 years -- I don't think I know what the hell I was doing. But every bad experience made me a better teacher.

I learned a great deal from the entire experience, no doubt about that, and what I learned, I can use. I know now how to stop that behavior before it speads into a wildfire no one can put out. I found that there are diplomatic ways to go over someone's head and get positive results.

And I learned, once again, I can survive almost anything. :)

Screw Dog, I'm happy to help, any time you need it!

[slingblade]

Last night, after parent-teacher conferences, my morning mentor pointed out some papers she'd printed for me on mythology, and at the bottom of the stack was a print-out of the school's discipline policy, along with the proper steps to take for given situations. Also included were five or six of the forms we use to send a student to the office for discipline.

Not one word was said to me about it.

What the heck--better halfway through the semester than not at all, eh? :)

(Passive-aggressive so-and-so, mutter, grumble, knowing smile.)

[Zbu]

Sixth hour gave me hell again today.

I dared to tell them that the Great Depression is considered to have begun on Black Tuesday, Oct. 29th, and they immediately began to get angry, tell me I was wrong, and thrust their history books under my nose to show me the date was actually Oct. 24th, and I should have said Black Thursday.

I explained to them that both dates are correct, depending on what one means. Oct. 24th is the first day of the stock market crash, but Oct. 29 is considered the actual "day" the Great Depression began.

I tried to explain the importance of my use of the word "considered." In point of fact, the Depression did not begin on a particular day, but was the culmination of years of careless financial "strategies." However, historians generally point to Oct. 29, 1929 and say, "That was the day it all crashed."

They wouldn't even let me get the first sentence out of my mouth. They verbally ganged up on me and I couldn't do a thing about it.

I feel so stupid.

This is hindsight, but one of my old History teachers would have called our bluffs with a five page paper with three references in order to back up our assertation. No using the textbook either; if the students feel it's that important to become outraged with it, then let them do the legwork. A little research never hurt anybody.

And it's single-spaced, get some knowledge onto that page one way or the other. ;)

[slingblade]

My morning mentor gave me snide passive aggressive hell today about my lack of knowledge about teaching. (?)

She has called a "private meeting" for tomorrow between she, myself, and the afternoon mentor to discuss what kind of evaluation they will be writing up for me.

I happened to have the good luck of buying a second-hand mp3 player-recorder, about which neither of them knows, and will be recording this "private meeting" for my protection. I have also notified my college supervisor and invited him to attend, but it's such short notice, I doubt he'll come.

[Zbu]

Yeah, I'd tape it and show it to your college supervisor. Something isn't right here at all and honestly, it stinks.

[pgwenthold]

The thing I don't understand is, this is supposed to be a _mentor_, you know, someone who is supposed to be helping you become a better teacher. Now she is giving you a hard time about "lack of knowledge about teaching"? Let her know that if that is the case, it is because she has done a pi$$ poor job of providing you with the knowledge you need.

[slingblade]

I think I've figured it out. I think the morning mentor has a "personality disorder," or some such problem. I don't know what one would call this, but lemmie 'splain, and it should become clear.

Sometimes she acts very strangely, but one would have to spend a lot of time with her to see it. I happen to spend that time with her, so I see it.

It is spring break now. Today was the last day of classes for the students. We teachers have a work-day tomorrow.

Anyway, with the students out for over a week, there was no point in starting a new lesson or unit today. They wouldn't remember it by the time they got back anyway. I had come to a point in my current unit on business letter writing to make a logical stop, but really couldn't figure out what we'd do today. Half the students are already gone, anyway, so what would be the point in trying to teach?

Last night at parent-teacher conferences, I asked MM (morning mentor) if we could have a game day. I had already asked students to bring their board games. She said she thought that would be a fine idea. I made sure to stress that we would play word games, to keep it English-related. That was great, MM said. We could put the radio on as well, I said. Why not? MM said.

Today, she did a 180 for no reason. When class started, I put the radio on. Without saying a word, she kept getting up to turn it down until finally she just turned it off. None of us knew what to say, so we said nothing.

I saw her sitting at the computer desk with a pad and clipboard. A few minutes into the period, I said, "whoops--can't forget attendance!" and took roll by sight. She wrote on her clipboard that it took me until 15 mins. into class to take attendance, when in the past she has assured me more than once that it doesn't matter if I take roll at the end of the period, so long at it gets taken down before class ends. Then she wrote down that I had no lesson plan for game day. Lesson plan?

The students forgot to bring their games, so I had them start writing clues for Pictionary while I sent another student to the library to check out some games for us like Scrabble and Trivial Pursuit. She wrote down that I was unprepared, and had no idea what to do.

She wrote a few other contradictory things down, but I can't remember them now--it's been two 13 hour days in a row. But things she had told me were fine were being counted against me today, for no reason.

Second hour is planning period, and that's when she quietly but irritatedly "reamed" me. She challenged what I had "bothered to learn" in my program. She said I seemed not to know very much about teaching literature, which I don't teach for her anyway, and which she's never observed me teaching. I told her I didn't know much--wasn't that why I was here? To learn how?

She got on my case about not writing lesson plans every day, when she had told me previously not to write lesson plans. She reiterated her much different student teaching program, which had her write lesson plans every day. Mine did not, but I write a damned good lesson plan, and have been told so by more than one expert, including her.

I have told her before that my program was heavy on educational theory, but light on practical applications. She began questioning--grilling--me about my previous semesters of observation. Didn't I have to write lesson plans and teach them during that? Yes, I said: I had to write and teach two plans the first semester, and four to six the second one. She didn't believe me.

Why, she demanded to know, did I know how to teach writing so well, but couldn't seem to manage teaching reading? I told her I have been a self-taught writer for thirty years now, and I know writing. I don't know how one teaches reading, exactly, but I learn more about doing it every day, and again, isn't that what I'm here for?

Didn't I learn how to teach reading in college? I read, didn't I? Surely I could teach what I had been taught? Didn't I learn the strategies while I was performing them? Well, yes, but I was learning them, not learning how to teach them, and learning them had all my attention at the time, thanks. Besides, I haven't been in an English classroom as a student in two years now. I've had my mind on learning other things, I told her, and I'm also a little bit overwhelmed and exhausted at the moment.

She asked me "How long are you going to keep scapegoating your program and refusing to accept responsibility for this yourself?" It went on like this for the entire 55 minutes of planning period. She stayed mad at me all morning long, leaving me in my classes alone without one word of where she was going--strictly against the rules of the program, and she knows that.

By afternoon, she was her usual kind, cheerful, helpful self.

So now what? I just know in my gut there is something wrong with this lady's head. When I first met her, she made a big, big deal about this episode when she got hit in the head, hard, with a basketball, a few years ago. It left her with a closed brain injury and some memory loss. Sometimes she can't remember words she wants to use, or facts she knows as well as her own name. But then she also sometimes does this personality 180. This is not the first time by any means.

What should I do, if anything? Her evaluation will determine if I pass, if I graduate, for heaven's sake! If she writes it during one of her Dr. Jekyll moments, I'm okay, but if she's Mr. Hyde, I'm screwed.

How do I tell TPTB that one of their veteran teachers occasionally goes off her nut?

[Ducky]

What I need to know are ways in which to effectively deal with a class that has mutinied. They know I am unskilled, and they know in my place they would be uncertain, and I am, and so they have decided to have fun with me.

I need to know what teachers do when this occurs.

They are at the point where they simply shout me down, so lecturing won't help now. I'm outnumbered one to thirty, and they have discovered they can simply drown me out. I don't know how to manage this classroom. I need strategies.

Thanks, though.


I had this problem when I was subbing at a private school for gifted kids.

They seriously have sent subs home crying. Now, you gotta understand I worked at that school in one job or another for 11 years, and every kid knew me as "Ducky." I wasn't getting much respect with that baggage. "Ducky" was the cool after-care person, or the summer camp counselor, NOT a respected teacher. My first day they were testing boundries very harshly. I talked with a friend of mine that was a permanent teacher there, and that particular period was free for them. So what I did was start sending unruly highschoolers to her room, where they promptly had a research project and presentation assigned to them, due the next day in my class open to my argumentation and critique (and you'e seen how I beat down trolls here.) I pulled no punches in the debate and argumentation. It was basically in a 3minutes them, 3 minutes me repeated 4 times. I had no prep or study time for their topics, and I told them that. Their grade on the project was given by the other teacher, who judged whether they scored any debating points, and they failed if they lost their temper with me. After a week of me grilling the kids to almost tears over their research, they just shut up and let me teach the class. Five of the kids failed that assignment. There were only six presentations done total.

That was the longest month of work I ever had, but those kids had the fear of me in them when it was over, and never had a problem with any classes after that. I don't miss that job.

[Zbu]

I had this problem when I was subbing at a private school for gifted kids.

They seriously have sent subs home crying. Now, you gotta understand I worked at that school in one job or another for 11 years, and every kid knew me as "Ducky." I wasn't getting much respect with that baggage. "Ducky" was the cool after-care person, or the summer camp counselor, NOT a respected teacher. My first day they were testing boundries very harshly. I talked with a friend of mine that was a permanent teacher there, and that particular period was free for them. So what I did was start sending unruly highschoolers to her room, where they promptly had a research project and presentation assigned to them, due the next day in my class open to my argumentation and critique (and you'e seen how I beat down trolls here.) I pulled no punches in the debate and argumentation. It was basically in a 3minutes them, 3 minutes me repeated 4 times. I had no prep or study time for their topics, and I told them that. Their grade on the project was given by the other teacher, who judged whether they scored any debating points, and they failed if they lost their temper with me. After a week of me grilling the kids to almost tears over their research, they just shut up and let me teach the class. Five of the kids failed that assignment. There were only six presentations done total.

That was the longest month of work I ever had, but those kids had the fear of me in them when it was over, and never had a problem with any classes after that. I don't miss that job.

I want to hear about the one who passed, that must have been....well, you tell us.

[Ducky]

I want to hear about the one who passed, that must have been....well, you tell us.



I asked specifically that student have to research and present arguments to support capitol punishment. While I did my best to give that student everything the class gave me in gruff (from ad-homs to every other fallacy) that one student was able to name my logical fallacies, and shoot them down. She was, despite her penchant for wanting to argue with teachers, very gifted, and very adept.

I don't know what she does now, but I would not be surprised to see her as an attorney. She was very very smart, and very very adept.

I think my mojo was helped by the fact that no other student ever wanted to argue with her. She had a rep for winning debates. Her "A" was actualy based on a technicality of debate, but well presented. She earned it. I wish she would find this forum. She would have a great contribution.



ETA: By the way, she was avidly anti capitol punishment. That's why I had her argue that side.

[jj]

...

You've got a problem. Those notes she wrote down are going to be used to flunk you, no matter what she told you.

Make sure you have EVERYTHING she's told you written down, recorded, etc. She's decided to give you the full, complete, destructo-business.

[slingblade]

Well I don't have, and now of course I feel just dandy wondering if she really is going to flunk me. Great. I haven't enough on my mind as it is.


ETA: I'm heading out for the meeting soon. I can't figure out how to make this little recorder work, as there were no instructions with it, so I'm taking pad and pen to write down what is said.

I want very much to tell them to stop mentioning my evaluation in any way, shape, or form. I want to hear not one more word about it. Every time they bring it up, it's a not-so-subtle threat, and I've had enough. I want to tell them lots of things, but I'll probably chicken out.

I'll post how it went when I get home this afternoon.

[slingblade]

I'm at school now.

The first thing MM did when I walked in was ask if I have plans ready for when we get back in a week.

I said, "Well, they aren't fully formalized, but yes, I have plans for what I'm doing."

She immediately began to scream--and I mean scream--at me.

"Don't get smart with me! I am in control of your career, and unless you show me a work-ethic, I will have you kicked out of this program, do you hear me?"

I left immediately, without another word, and went right for the principal.

I told him my story, and that I was concerned for MM's behavior over and above being threatened or insulted by it.

He told me one of his daughters was a student of MM's, and he is not surprised to hear of her acting this way at all.

I am sitting now at my afternoon mentor's computer, witing for her to arrive. I am to finish my grading for the quarter and leave, with the principal's blessing. I have also informed him of the meeting to have taken place this morning with MM and AM, and told him plainly that I will no longer meet with either of them without my college supervisor present. He agreed quickly, and kept assuring me he (he said "we," meaning the school) is on my side in this and not to worry.

What a mother-hating nightmare!!!

[Roadtoad]

You know, the guy at work everyone respects is an ex-Marine. Great guy, and you know if he's your friend, you're probably an okay person.

Once in a while, I reveal something about myself at work, like the fact I have no common sense. He saw me do something stupid once, and made the remark, "Six hundred horses under the hood and he's running in neutral."

Sounds about right.

So, in the spirit of the Big Man, it seems to me the only thing to say is your mentor's trying to loosen the lug nuts on you. Document everything, and I mean everything, including the fact you told the kids it was a game day. This may be one time when they'll back you up. She's not off her nut; she's a sneaky bitch who's found an opportunity, and is going to try and derail you.

Geez, no wonder they're having trouble finding teachers! If this is what you have to put up with!

[Roadtoad]

Just read your last post. HOLY SH**!

Get a hold of your instructor at the college, NOW! You are in trouble.

[drkitten]

Get a hold of your instructor at the college, NOW!

Seconded. And put something in writing, to both the local principal and to your college instructor.

[bigred]

The thing I don't understand is, this is supposed to be a _mentor_, you know, someone who is supposed to be helping you become a better teacher. Now she is giving you a hard time about "lack of knowledge about teaching"? Let her know that if that is the case, it is because she has done a pi$$ poor job of providing you with the knowledge you need.
This is unbelievably common in "management" positions (which that alleged mentor basically is). Why should teachers be exempt?

[bigred]

I think I've figured it out. I think the morning mentor has a "personality disorder," or some such problem. I don't know what one would call thisI do, but don't think I can say it here.

And I'm frankly sick to freaking death of people coming up with new and inventive ways to call it something else or worse, deflect accountability by creating a "disorder" to explain/excuse it away and break out the fashion drug of the day to "solve" it.


What should I do, if anything? Short-term, try to grin and bear it, for your career's sake. Meanwhile search long and hard for another position. If/when you find one and before you leave, write a tactful but blunt letter to her boss and/or the top of the staff in general explaining all this. If they can't see she's a $%#@ / nut (or worse, see it but don't care), this isn't a place you wanna be.

Good luck.

[Roadtoad]

Oh, hell, Red, why should it be happening at all? If you're a manager, you're there because you can LEAD, or you're supposed to be. It's one of the reasons I'm out putting out resumes and making contact with other trucking outfits. If I can just get some time, I've got some interviews lined up. If I can get a decent line haul gig, I'm out of this dump.

Why should Sling, who's taking a job teaching kids, whose actions will serve as a personification of what a good leader should be, put up with this? Add to this the latest little outburst from her MM, and frankly, I think that MM ought to be the one losing a job, not Sling. There's something wrong here.

Frankly, after all the management books I've read, after reading book after book by political and business leaders, the one thing I can say is this woman shouldn't be a mentor for anyone, and she sure as hell shouldn't be teaching. She ought to be a cubicle rat, if anything, because she's a bully and a creep.

I'm just glad Sling's fighting back, especially after the crap she's gone through in her life.

[slingblade]

Thanks, Roadtoad.

I refuse to be bullied or abused anymore. If it means I lose everything, so be it. But I will not be a willing dog to get kicked around anymore.

In spite of my telling the principal that I will no longer meet with my mentors without my supervisor present, he called a meeting of the four of us anyway. MM was all smiles and rationality by then. She had a "plan" drawn up, a list of expectations for me, and tried to give it to me.

I said to the room that my acceptance of that document would be a tacit agreement with it, and I refused it until my supervisor can be present. I am documenting every thing that was said.

I have done 9 weeks of solo teaching in two classes, 5 weeks in two more. That's plenty. I intend to inform my program that they must move me to another school to finish the observation phase of my program. I refuse to work with her one more day.

If I have to quit, so be it, but I will get an attorney and sue.

RED, I'm not trying to place any label on this woman, and you didn't see how she acts. SHE'S SICK. There is something wrong with her mind. She has had a head injury and its effects are apparent. I don't know what to call it, because I am neither a neurologist or a psychiatrist. But something is seriously wrong with this woman. She was screaming at me for no reason whatsoever. She is trying to get me removed because she doesn't like my work-ethic. One person should not have the power to get someone removed for such a subjective and insignificant reason.

I haven't molested any kids, done meth on my desk, or hit a student. She simply thinks I"m not as prepared as I should be and that's trivial.

There is no way this is right. No way.

[slingblade]

I've just returned from a meeting with the head of the education department at my college.

As far as I can tell, I will not be working with MM one day longer. In fact, I am not even to go back to school until my supervisor can go with me. Dept. Head calls it a "bad mentor/student fit," and she believes, as I do, that the relationship is not reparable.

The tentative plan she and I have worked out, subject to the approval of all, is that I will use the mornings for observation of other teachers, and will continue to teach the one class in the afternoon, and observe the other, but not teach it.

There is still a chance I can be removed from my school placement, if they insist, for any reason. If that happens, I must withdraw from the education program, take an "incomplete," and resume at another school for 8 weeks next fall. That is, if they can find a school that will agree after all that to take me.

I am devastated. I wish I believed in something to pray to, I'm that scared.

[drkitten]

There is still a chance I can be removed from my school placement, if they insist, for any reason.

I strongly suspect that that is not true. If they try to tell you that, consult a lawyer.

[slingblade]

Drkitten, I was told that, for the umpteenth time, by my program director this morning.

That's the college's contract with the schools: we student teachers can be removed at any time, for any reason or no reason. If that happens, the progam withdraws us, we must resubmit and try again, and the new school has right of full disclosure regarding what happened at the previous placement. I've no right to any privacy of any kind.

I have no money for a lawyer, but I've already decided to contact one on Monday anyway. I need time to get my documentation ducks in a row.

The way a former student put it to a few of us, before we entered student teaching: "You are their slaves. They can make or break your career, and if they don't like you, you're screwed."

[drkitten]

Drkitten, I was told that, for the umpteenth time, by my program director this morning.

Don't take the program director's word for it.

Program directors lie to students routinely when things have gone this far wrong, specifically to bluff students out of talking to lawyers, learning what their rights really are, and then going to court to have those rights enforced.


That's the college's contract with the schools: we student teachers can be removed at any time, for any reason or no reason. If that happens, the progam withdraws us, we must resubmit and try again, and the new school has right of full disclosure regarding what happened at the previous placement. I've no right to any privacy of any kind.

But it's not the college's contract with you. The college cannot sign away your rights via a third-party contract.

[slingblade]

Thank you so much. I appreciate your sound advice, reasoning, and logic.
Of course they would say that. The a$$ is evidently the most sensitive and easily injured area of the body, as we can see by how carefully people are wont to cover it.

I had already resolved to get a lawyer, however, as soon as the first whiff of stink reached my nose. I have far too much invested in this to go slinking off, tail tucked and cowering.

You have my earnest gratitude.

[TragicMonkey]

"Personality disorder"? Blow to the head? Pshaw!

Your morning mentor has a substance abuse problem. When she leaves without saying where she's going, then comes back in a different mood? When she's screaming and irrational sometimes, way out of proportion to what's going on? When she forgets what she said the day before? All classic symptoms. She's on something.

eta: And it would be totally evil to rat her out and have the school give her a drug test, or search her desk for a flask, or fingerprint the Scotchguard in the janitor's closet. Totally evil. Mmm hmmm.

[slingblade]

I wouldn't know. As far as I've been told, she's a straight-laced Christian, and I can detect no odd scents, changes in pupil size, or other physiological changes in her demeanor, aside from a tendency to be passive one moment and aggressive the next. No, I'm not accusing her of any passive-aggressive pop psych. I'm simply telling it how I see it. Jekyll and Hyde, and a more obvious example, there never was.

Her dad just died; she's grieving. If it weren't happening already, I'd attribute it to that. I don't know why she's like this, I just know I want away from her.

[Zbu]

I wouldn't know. As far as I've been told, she's a straight-laced Christian, and I can detect no odd scents, changes in pupil size, or other physiological changes in her demeanor, aside from a tendency to be passive one moment and aggressive the next. No, I'm not accusing her of any passive-aggressive pop psych. I'm simply telling it how I see it. Jekyll and Hyde, and a more obvious example, there never was.

Her dad just died; she's grieving. If it weren't happening already, I'd attribute it to that. I don't know why she's like this, I just know I want away from her.

What she needs to be placed on suspension. She's going off on you, I'd hate to be the kid she goes off on unnecessarily. She's obviously insane, and I'd press with the lawyer because right now your school and this school you're teaching at are trying to hush this up. You get a lawyer and you'll at least be covered there. This is all so much ********.

[slingblade]

I got an email from my supervisor, in which he says, among other things:

"You have your guard up and tend to overreact to criticism and
feel attacked, listen understand and adjust. your job is to listen to their criticisms and identify specifically what you need to do to make things right."

I wonder does he know or care that "listening to criticsms" involves being screamed at and threatened with dismissal?

Or does he know that he's operating under a fallacy? Could it be possible that the reason I have my guard up is because I am being attacked?

I'm going to lose this, folks. I smell it in the wind. I can't even find an attorney who thinks this is a legal matter. I'm so screwed.

[delphi_ote]

I got an email from my supervisor, in which he says, among other things:

"You have your guard up and tend to overreact to criticism and
feel attacked, listen understand and adjust. your job is to listen to their criticisms and identify specifically what you need to do to make things right."

I wonder does he know or care that "listening to criticsms" involves being screamed at and threatened with dismissal?

Or does he know that he's operating under a fallacy? Could it be possible that the reason I have my guard up is because I am being attacked?

I'm going to lose this, folks. I smell it in the wind. I can't even find an attorney who thinks this is a legal matter. I'm so screwed.
I think he's being political and covering his own butt. This isn't about criticism. You need to make it abundantly clear that you were screamed at and threatened. Keep saying that over and over again until they understand what's going on.

[Ducky]

I agree with Delphi. Also, make it clear it was abusive.

Get a pocket recorder and record everything this person says to you. I am sure the screaming will happen again. Get it on tape.

[slingblade]

I'm not supposed to have to work with her anymore, once break is over. I have a pocket recorder I just bought used from a friend who has left town. I don't know how to operate it, though I know it does record. I can find a picture of it online, but cannot find any information about it.

Does anyone know what kind of attorney I should contact? Is this a civil matter, tort law, what?

[Ducky]

I'm not supposed to have to work with her anymore, once break is over. I have a pocket recorder I just bought used from a friend who has left town. I don't know how to operate it, though I know it does record. I can find a picture of it online, but cannot find any information about it.

Does anyone know what kind of attorney I should contact? Is this a civil matter, tort law, what?



Send me the model/make and a pic and I will get you the instructions.

As for attorneys, I have no idea what specific specialty you would look for. I wonder if you could contact the union and ask? Or are you not teacher union member yet?

[Zbu]

I got an email from my supervisor, in which he says, among other things:

"You have your guard up and tend to overreact to criticism and
feel attacked, listen understand and adjust. your job is to listen to their criticisms and identify specifically what you need to do to make things right."

I wonder does he know or care that "listening to criticsms" involves being screamed at and threatened with dismissal?

Or does he know that he's operating under a fallacy? Could it be possible that the reason I have my guard up is because I am being attacked?

I'm going to lose this, folks. I smell it in the wind. I can't even find an attorney who thinks this is a legal matter. I'm so screwed.

You haven't even begun to fight. Right now I'd still keep searching for a lawyer and maybe try any of those who deal with labor disputes. Despite the fact you're not a licensed teacher yet, you were threatened by a mentor that you were going to fail a class because of her mood swings. Explain to the lawyer about this mentor's behavior and then when you find one, have them deal with your college's instructor and the school itself. Right now it seems like both those institutions want to save their asses by sacrificing yours, and now it's definitely the time to fight.

Don't lose hope, you did nothing wrong. And by getting appropriate legal representation we can do this. Look at it this way: they have more to lose than you if it comes out that both the school and the college partcipated and screwed students out of tuition and time by forcing them into this. They're going to lie to you in order to prevent themselves from getting reamed rightfully for this whole horrible experience. Don't lose heart, you are definitely not in the wrong.

[slingblade]

Edit: sorry, meant to send that PM.

[slingblade]

At what point does one consider involving the press? I know it's not now, I know, but when is it?

[drkitten]

At what point does one consider involving the press? I know it's not now, I know, but when is it?

At the point when you have decided that no resolution behind closed doors is possible, typically just before or just after you and the lawyer have filed the lawsuit papers.

If you go to the press, you're basically guaranteeing that no school in the area -- and possibly in the world -- will take you. So you would be hoping to put pressure on the school district and college to give you enough money in an out-of-court settlement that you can successfully choose another career.

[delphi_ote]

At what point does one consider involving the press? I know it's not now, I know, but when is it?

Last resort. Don't count on them to do anything. Unless there's a burning car or sex involved, they're not going to care.

Keep repeating that you're wiling to do the work, that you're good in tough situations, and that whatever it takes to get your degree, you'll do. Repeat that what was expected of you was constantly changing.

Repeat all until you find someone who will listen.

[Roadtoad]

I would agree with what's been posted so far. Document, document, document.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm doing the same thing myself. I have an attorney, but he's pushing for as much evidence as he can get his hands on. I'm working on it.

She may be a straightlaced Christian, but your MM is also abusive. That needs to be documented, and you need as much corroborating evidence as you can get. Talk to other teachers. I'm willing to bet there's someone with an axe to grind, who knows damned well she's out of line.

[slingblade]

They'll get rid of me because I cried. They'll say I'm unstable and unfit.
You watch. I'll keep documenting, though. I have to fight.

[rjh01]

You cried because they hurt you real bad in the head. Normal human reaction.

What is the law around harassment at work?

[slingblade]

I don't know, and don't know if such laws would apply to me. I'm not an employee. I'm a student intern. If I can find a lawyer to speak to, or can get hold of the teacher's union on Monday, I'll try to find out.

[Roadtoad]

Do NOT let the railroad you, Sling. You do not deserve this. There's something very, very wrong here.

As to your MM's remarks, my son, Chris, noted that if you can get the VP's recommend, you might not need the MM's. And, he said, he's glad to see you're fighting back. I'll second that.

[slingblade]

I'm trying to fight. I have 10 pages of documentation so far, single-spaced.

I am going to call some of my professors outside the education department and have them write character references for me about my work-ethic and the high quality of my work.

I'm still planning on seeking a lawyer, but I still don't know who to contact. If anyone has a friend who is an attorney, I'd appreciate hearing any advice they can give on the matter.

Thanks folks. Thanks tons, Roadtoad.
Without you, I'd be all alone in this.

[alfaniner]

...Thanks folks. Thanks tons, Roadtoad.
Without you, I'd be all alone in this.

I think there are plenty of other people here that have and will continue to support you.

[Roadtoad]

What Alfa said.

You will make it through, Sling.

[slingblade]

I think there are plenty of other people here that have and will continue to support you.

Sorry, that's what I had meant: without all of you, I'd be alone.
My bad.

[rjh01]

Just imagine in 10 years time you could be in charge of a student intern.

[slingblade]

I shudder to think. Not if I can help it, no sir. At least let me get some distance from this nightmare before you make me imagine that!

[slingblade]

I should also tell all tuning in to this soap opera that the boys who were giving me holy hell in the afternoons have not only stopped, but actually seem to like me now. They laugh, smile, chat with me, do favors for me like take AV carts back, and hold doors for me when my arms are full.

Doesn't that just figure? I finally win over the most difficult class I have, and now I'm being removed.

[wollery]

I don't know, and don't know if such laws would apply to me. I'm not an employee. I'm a student intern. If I can find a lawyer to speak to, or can get hold of the teacher's union on Monday, I'll try to find out.Shouldn't matter, you are there doing a job. The laws apply to student at college, so why not a student teacher on placement. Harassment is harassment, and if you can show it to be such then you can sue.

As a student you have a right to reasonable and responsible tutoring. MM has clearly been neither, which has prejudiced your chances in the career of your choice. If that isn't grounds for action then it darned well should be!!

[wollery]

Thinking about it some more, I don't know what the law is in the US, but in the UK the college has a duty to the student, and unless the placement school can show solid proof that you have done anything wrong then the college is legally bound to take the student's side in any dispute.

Might be worth looking into.

[hurdygurdy]

Doesn't that just figure? I finally win over the most difficult class I have, and now I'm being removed.

I'm glad you've achieved the most important and most gratifying part of your challenge. Keep fighting!

[rjh01]

I should also tell all tuning in to this soap opera that the boys who were giving me holy hell in the afternoons have not only stopped, but actually seem to like me now. They laugh, smile, chat with me, do favors for me like take AV carts back, and hold doors for me when my arms are full.

Doesn't that just figure? I finally win over the most difficult class I have, and now I'm being removed.

What happened to change their attitude? Was it something you did? Or was it what someone else did (maybe at your request?)? Or was it that they did not win so you won?

This is not a soap opera. A movie was once made of your story To Sir with Love (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=%22To+sir+with+love%27+movie&btnG=Google+Search&meta=)

[slingblade]

I think it was two things: the problems with my mentors were escalating, so I simply was too distracted to give the problems that much attention, and when I was told I could stop teaching the class after break, my attitude changed. It stopped being so important to prove I could handle them, and I must have stopped being challenging to them (and I didn't realize I was challenging them until I quit).

Maybe also because I never stopped trying to start out the hour with them positively. I never stopped greeting them, never stopped smiling at them or helping them with their learning until they'd start misbehaving. And even then, I'd be quick to forget it and go back to being friendly, whenever I could manage it.

So, a few things, not all of which I was aware until you asked.

Thanks!

ETA: Poitier, I'm not.

[slingblade]

I've called my state teacher's union, and while they cannot represent me, because I am not a member (or even a teacher, yet), the woman I spoke to is looking through her references for local legal help I can contact.


She's supposed to call me back momentarily, and I'll post if I find legal help.

I'm also going to begin gathering character references from former profs regarding my dedication to teaching and my "work-ethic."

This is so much bushwa.

[slingblade]

Wait just a doggoned minute.

One of MM's problems with me is that, due to my inexperience, my daily plans sometimes go awry and must be modified. She has indicated that she thinks this is poor or lazy planning on my part.

I just realized something: where's her plan for mentoring me? Did she not create a daily plan for teaching me or guiding me in those matters she considers essential to teaching? Or did she think her job was to let me sink or swim, and weed me out of the profession instead of teaching it to me?

A friend mentioned recently that her husband might be cheating. He was suspect because, among other reasons, he had recently and suddenly begun accusing his wife of cheating on him, and she was far too busy to think about having sex with him, much less anyone else. He simply felt guilty, and tried to transfer his guilt to her.

Today I suddenly realized MM's been all over me about planning...maybe because she hadn't planned anything for me, and now realizes her lack of planning could be used against her in any probe into why she finds my internship so unsatisfactory. So, she turns the spotlight on me, instead, and accuses me of poor planning, hoping I'll be so busy proving my work that no one will think to ask her what went wrong with her plans.

Pardon me: I feel a little smug now. I know she has no plan for my internship, as we have never once in nine weeks discussed any such plans, much less followed them. And now that I think of it, I grow righteously indignant. Of course this whole 9 weeks looks like an amateur put it together: an amateur did!

Ah, I have you now. All your base belong to me, whee!

In other news, I have spoken to my supervisor, and here's the plan so far:
I meet with him and the Edu. department head on Monday, and don't attend school. Tuesday, I go with him for a meeting at the school between me, him, the two mentors, and someone from the high school's admin. I have 14 pages, single-spaced, of documentation of events throughout the semester so far, and will also (I've just decided) ask to see Jennie's original plan for the mentorship. If she has one, I'll ask why we didn't follow it. If she doesn't have one, I'll ask how she was going to teach me about teaching without having a plan, and why she didn't think a plan was necessary.

My afternoon mentor now does have a plan: to take back 6th hour and take the planning for 5th hour away from me, totally: I will observe and take notes on whatever she teaches 6th hour, and the next day I will teach the same lesson to 5th hour, keeping us one day behind, but firmly in control. I should learn a great deal from it, and at least it is a plan.

It doesn't sound, so far, as if either school is plotting to kick me out. I could still be surprised, though, so I'll just keep adding anything else I remember to that documentation, just in case.

[Roadtoad]

Our attorney didn't know anyone who could help, Sling. But I would still get an attorney to go with you to that meeting if at all possible. The more we go into this, the more I think something stinks.

[slingblade]

Our attorney didn't know anyone who could help, Sling. But I would still get an attorney to go with you to that meeting if at all possible. The more we go into this, the more I think something stinks.

Thanks for checking anyway, Road. I'm grateful for your concern.
The teacher's union gave me the name of an attorney here in town, but they can't help me unless I have some money. They want a retainer.

What stinks here is that my MM is not well, and has not been well for a while. I did mention that the school principal said he had a daughter in one of her classes, and her outrageous behavior doesn't really surprise him, right? That's just too telling, and yes, I have documented his statement.

This weekend I'm going to visit some computer geeks to see if they can help me figure out how to use my pocket recorder. Someone has to know how this thing works. And if I have that, then I can record the meetings for future legal action if necessary.

Thanks!

[slingblade]

I bought a new digital voice recorder, and I think I may have figured out the used one I bought earlier, so I'm carrying both to the meeting on Tuesday.
A girl can't be too careful.

[Ducky]

I haven't forgot about you, I just can't find the specs on that darn thing...

Still looking for you.

[slingblade]

Oh, I know, buddy. Info on that thing is scarcer than hen's teeth....except those weird regressive-gene hens I read about with crocodile teeth...or was it alligator....can't remember...

:) No problem, man, don't sweat it. I have at least one I can use, so I'm not hurting. And thanks a ton!

[rjh01]

Are you going to record the meeting openly? In which case what happens if someone objects?

If you record secretly is this legal?

[tsiyvwiyv]

Your experience is far from unique. The "trial by fire" method of teaching teachers is the norm at many grade schools, high schools, and even colleges. When I was first given my student teaching assignment they just handed me a class full of 100 undergraduates and let me do what I wanted as long as I taught something about the subject I was assigned to teach. I was completely on my own in the classroom. The first semester was horrible. I did not have a clue how to teach and I just basically made it up as I went along. After a few semesters I learned what worked and what didn't. The only advice I can really give is- don't let the students intimidate you, they will try, and if you let them succeed, you are lost (they will eat you alive); set definite rules in the class at the beginning of the semester and stick with them, and make your students stick to them; do not let your students get away with anything or "slide," if you give them an inch they will take 500 miles; remember that you are in charge, not your students, don't let students hand you any lines like "but the subject is so boring," or "but my other teacher let us do that," remember, you set the rules; you also set the tone of the class, so don't be defensive or brusk with your students, they will pick up on it and reciprocate; don't get flustered if a student catches a mistake you make, you are human and it does happen, just laugh it off; make clear rules for your students covering classroom behavior, and if a student breaks those rules, don't hesitate to mete out punishment that fits the crime; talk to your advisor, administrator, or supervisor about any problems that you have, it is their job to help you, and most will be more than happy to help if you ask for it; and have fun with your students, let your love of your subject come through in your class, your students will respect you for it if you make the class fun and informative.
As for problem students, like I said, make definite, concrete rules for classroom expectations and behavior at the beginning of the term and make sure the students understand them. You can even have your students sign a "contract" saying that they got a copy of the rules and understood them. This covers you in case of any problems. If a student insists on giving you problems, just take the student aside and explain to them that their behavior is inappropriate. If it keeps on happening, don't be afraid to take academic misconduct action against them. At my university they had a student judicial committee that handled those cases. I just had to file a charge of academic misconduct against the student and the committee handled it. The student could appeal, but none ever did in my case. The best advice I ever got about teaching was actually from my ex-landlady, who was an ex-linguistics professor. She told me that I did not have to be nice to my students, they are not your peers, they are your students. You're not there to be their friend, your there to teach them. I'm not saying to be unfriendly or mean, or that you can't make friends with your students, I still get e-mails from ex-students years later asking for advice, or just to say "hi," but don't go into the class thinking that you have to make everyone like you. The cold, hard fact is that some students will not like you, for whatever reason (and many times even the student does not really know why they hate you). Just teach your class.

[tsiyvwiyv]

Your experience is far from unique. The "trial by fire" method of teaching teachers is the norm at many grade schools, high schools, and even colleges. When I was first given my student teaching assignment they just handed me a class full of 100 undergraduates and let me do what I wanted as long as I taught something about the subject I was assigned to teach. I was completely on my own in the classroom. The first semester was horrible. I did not have a clue how to teach and I just basically made it up as I went along. After a few semesters I learned what worked and what didn't. The only advice I can really give is- don't let the students intimidate you, they will try, and if you let them succeed, you are lost (they will eat you alive); set definite rules in the class at the beginning of the semester and stick with them, and make your students stick to them; do not let your students get away with anything or "slide," if you give them an inch they will take 500 miles; remember that you are in charge, not your students, don't let students hand you any lines like "but the subject is so boring," or "but my other teacher let us do that," remember, you set the rules; you also set the tone of the class, so don't be defensive or brusk with your students, they will pick up on it and reciprocate; don't get flustered if a student catches a mistake you make, you are human and it does happen, just laugh it off; make clear rules for your students covering classroom behavior, and if a student breaks those rules, don't hesitate to mete out punishment that fits the crime; talk to your advisor, administrator, or supervisor about any problems that you have, it is their job to help you, and most will be more than happy to help if you ask for it; and have fun with your students, let your love of your subject come through in your class, your students will respect you for it if you make the class fun and informative.
As for problem students, like I said, make definite, concrete rules for classroom expectations and behavior at the beginning of the term and make sure the students understand them. You can even have your students sign a "contract" saying that they got a copy of the rules and understood them. This covers you in case of any problems. If a student insists on giving you problems, just take the student aside and explain to them that their behavior is inappropriate. If it keeps on happening, don't be afraid to take academic misconduct action against them. At my university they had a student judicial committee that handled those cases. I just had to file a charge of academic misconduct against the student and the committee handled it. The student could appeal, but none ever did in my case. The best advice I ever got about teaching was actually from my ex-landlady, who was an ex-linguistics professor. She told me that I did not have to be nice to my students, they are not your peers, they are your students. You're not there to be their friend, your there to teach them. I'm not saying to be unfriendly or mean, or that you can't make friends with your students, I still get e-mails from ex-students years later asking for advice, or just to say "hi," but don't go into the class thinking that you have to make everyone like you. The cold, hard fact is that some students will not like you, for whatever reason (and many times even the student does not really know why they hate you). Just teach your class.

[slingblade]

Under one-party consent laws, as long as I am party to the conversation I am taping, I need no one's consent but mine, and need not notify anyone else present I am taping.

[slingblade]

Tsiyvwiyv, thank you, but the students are the least of my problems now.

My morning mentor went ballistic on me, threatened my career, to have me kicked out, and other abusive speech. She's my problem now. The kids have turned out fine, and my classes are going much more smoothly now. But thanks for the advice.

[rjh01]

Actually I think if a person goes ballistic they have lost control. One person does that to me. If I offer any resistance she backs down. If you can tape someone going ballistic that would be worth gold. Your reaction is to refuse to take it seriously.

[slingblade]

Actually I think if a person goes ballistic they have lost control. One person does that to me. If I offer any resistance she backs down. If you can tape someone going ballistic that would be worth gold. Your reaction is to refuse to take it seriously.

I don't take it personally, as I know she has no reason to behave in such an abusive manner towards anyone, especially not to a student under her mentorship.

But I absolutely take it seriously. No one has the right to abuse me in such a manner and negatively affect my career in this way.

I'm hoping she raises her voice to me again during this meeting, but I'm betting she has her girdle on nice and tight for this one.

[Zbu]

I don't take it personally, as I know she has no reason to behave in such an abusive manner towards anyone, especially not to a student under her mentorship.

But I absolutely take it seriously. No one has the right to abuse me in such a manner and negatively affect my career in this way.

I'm hoping she raises her voice to me again during this meeting, but I'm betting she has her girdle on nice and tight for this one.

I'd make special note of how her attitude has changed and with the anger she told you that she would sink her career (or however she said that) as that is not constructive or even mentorly advice. If she thinks that's the way to mentor, then her little head problem/behavioral excuse needs medical leave. That is just not acceptable.

[slingblade]

Zbu, I now have 16 single-spaced pages of notes and documentation regarding my entire mentorship, from Jan. 9 to the present. In it, I have detailed how MM keeps me on the defensive by constantly changing her attitude towards me for no apparent reason.

Excerpt:

March 10, 2006: I arrived at XXHS at 7:20 am and entered (Morning Mentor)'s classroom. She greeted me quietly but angrily again, and I returned her greeting in an equally quiet, neutral tone.

I sat down in a student chair, and she asked me if I had plans ready for the week following spring break. I could hear the exhaustion in my tone as I told her I did, but that they were not yet fully formalized, by which I meant they weren’t yet written in my lesson plan book. (I planned to do some research over the break and get some better strategies in line for what I was teaching, so I hadn’t yet put my plans on paper—I don’t have time to waste by writing the same plans twice, but I said none of this to her. These are only my thoughts now, as I document these incidents.)

At this, Mentor turned to me and began yelling at me very loudly, to the point of screaming at me. Her exact words were:

“Don’t get smart with me, missy! I control your career and if you can’t show me a decent work-ethic, I will have you kicked out of this program!”

I responded in a low tone that I would not accept this measure of abuse, and immediately left the classroom. Mentor continued to scream at me as I left the building. I do not know what she said, as I left quickly. (I never meant to be or sound snide or rude to her. I’m tired. I’m confused by her swiftly changing attitudes. I’m on guard, and I could hear and see her anger with me. But I responded quietly. I did not yell, nor did I use sarcasm. I simply and honestly answered her initial question about planning. Then she began yelling, almost screaming. I don’t care what I’ve done; I will not tolerate being yelled at in this manner. She lost control, and I find I now both fear her and am concerned for her, as well.)

Other incidents in which her attitude suddenly changed are documented as well. Does it look all right?

[TragicMonkey]

I guess I'm a bad monkey, because I would add "I detected a distinct aroma of bourbon on her person, even though it was not yet 8 a.m."

But then, when I worked as a customer service rep and got angry calls, if the caller was excessively abusive I'd add "customer seemed disoriented and belligerant" into his file, which was company euphemism for "drunk as a skunk" and would mean if he called back to complain about me, he wouldn't be believed.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm a bad monkey. It's because I'm not satisfied with just letting karma happen, I have to help it along with added interest.

[delphi_ote]

Other incidents in which her attitude suddenly changed are documented as well. Does it look all right?
So far so good. :)

I'm curious about this instance. How could you tell she was angry when you entered the room?

[slingblade]

Because when she is not angry, she looks at me as I enter, she smiles, she says "Good morning" cheerfully, and asks how I am, makes small-talk, etc.

When she is angry or irritated, she says "Good morning" dourly, doesn't look at me, doesn't engage in any small-talk, and uses "avoidance postures," meaning she keeps furniture between us and keeps her back to me, talking over her shoulder at me. She launches immediately into a litany of questions like "So, how did you think 4th hour went yesterday?" This is a signal to me that she thinks it went poorly, but wants to hear me say it first.

That's pretty much how. After spending some 30 years of my life being abused in every way, I can read people, and know immediately when they're angry. I have to know--protective mechanism and all that.

[delphi_ote]

Because when she is not angry, she looks at me as I enter, she smiles, she says "Good morning" cheerfully, and asks how I am, makes small-talk, etc.

When she is angry or irritated, she says "Good morning" dourly, doesn't look at me, doesn't engage in any small-talk, and uses "avoidance postures," meaning she keeps furniture between us and keeps her back to me, talking over her shoulder at me. She launches immediately into a litany of questions like "So, how did you think 4th hour went yesterday?" This is a signal to me that she thinks it went poorly, but wants to hear me say it first.

That's pretty much how. After spending some 30 years of my life being abused in every way, I can read people, and know immediately when they're angry. I have to know--protective mechanism and all that.
You might then list the differences in how she receives you. "She seemed angry or upset with me because she didn't greet me like she usually did." If you're trying to convince someone skeptical, they're going to want to know all this isn't just your imagination.

Don't mention the "protection mechanism." Someone without a good understanding of things might judge you.

[slingblade]

Okay, thanks!

[slingblade]

I don't think there will be any meeting after all.

I just got off the phone with my supervisor. He is making me go to school tomorrow, against what the Education department head told me.

He said my mentor told him I was screaming too, so he doesn't know who to believe.

She's lying.

Anyway, I have to go to school tomorrow and teach. I have to teach the comp classes until Thursday, when my business letter unit ends. I am supposed to then be released to do observation...but after this, I don't know if that condition will be kept, either.

I don't know now if there will be a meeting on Tuesday, or who will attend it.

I'm sitting here shaking, nauseated. I just got screwed.

Later tonight, I will put in a call to my department head and confirm this with her. My supervisor says he is coming to the school to morrow, to sit in my classes as I teach, so I'll "feel more comfortable."

I feel like quitting, and yet I cannot. I feel so trapped.

[rjh01]

16 pages is a lot of notes. Good work.

If you can stay calm on your meeting on Tuesday no matter what the provocation then that will be highly impressive. I am very interested in what happens on Tuesday. Good luck. Remember you are a better person than your mentors.

[Roadtoad]

I'd agree with this, Sling.

Look, the first thing you have to remember is these people seem fixated on making you quit. That's a load of BS, because they're supposed to be helping you to succeed.

I don't know what their problem is, but the thing to remember is that you can beat this, and you can win. You're not trapped. You're only trapped if you let them trap you.

They don't want to have a meeting? Too bad. Keep looking for an attorney. You deserve to have representation. Talk to the union rep, and ask question after question until you get a solid answer. Make copies of your documentation, and pass it on to the rep. At some point, someone in that union needs to remember that while you're not a member yet, you will be soon.

Surely at some point you have made friends who are teachers. Talk to them, and see if they'll back you up. If you haven't already mentioned your past to the rep, I would discreetly discuss it, and see what comes of it.

There's no reason for them to be pulling this. It's time for this abuse to end, and end now.

[slingblade]

Thanks, Roadtoad.

Honestly, I don't know what to do. I'm sitting here trying to imagine everything that might come up tomorrow, trying to figure out in advance how I'll react to this possibility or that.

I'm trying to rehearse my attitude, but I'm not even sure what it should be, aside from calm. Absolutely calm. I'm worried about mythology class, because one thing she and I were supposed to do Friday was discuss and plan how I would teach the Aeneid, which I haven't ever really studied. But, of course, we never got to discuss anything Friday. Since I'm leving her classroom completely after Thursday, and since she never wanted me to teach mythology anyway, I have decided not to even try to teach it. I worry that this will make her angry, since she didn't have time to "plan," but I don't think that's my fault.

I have a strong feeling that I will not make it to the end of the week still in this program. My guts are telling me it's over and I just don't know it yet.

Toad, I'll keep trying to find someone to help me. Thanks.

My supervisor doesn't seem happy with me, or as supportive as I'd like. I can't tell if I'm just upset and imagining that, or if it's real.

[Beth]

I don't think there will be any meeting after all.

I just got off the phone with my supervisor. He is making me go to school tomorrow, against what the Education department head told me.

He called you at home on Sunday afternoon! What's up with that?


He said my mentor told him I was screaming too, so he doesn't know who to believe.

She's lying.
If he doesn't know who to believe, what he'll likely do is go by his past history with each of you. Which story is more consistent with his past experiences with the two of you? Hopefully, he'll conclude you are the one more likely to be giving the truth of the matter. Has he seen you screaming? Heard other similar stories from other peope about you? Probably not. But you are not the only one with such complaints about your mm. You are the one with the history of staying calm. She is not.



Anyway, I have to go to school tomorrow and teach. I have to teach the comp classes until Thursday, when my business letter unit ends. I am supposed to then be released to do observation...but after this, I don't know if that condition will be kept, either.

I don't know now if there will be a meeting on Tuesday, or who will attend it.

I'm sitting here shaking, nauseated. I just got screwed.


My suspicion is that your mm was on the phone with your supervisor and precipitated this call to you about it. That means she's worried about having the meeting, which is a good sign that you are likely to win your case. Try not to let the changes demoralize you. WHen you get your chance to present your case, it will likely go your way.


Later tonight, I will put in a call to my department head and confirm this with her. My supervisor says he is coming to the school to morrow, to sit in my classes as I teach, so I'll "feel more comfortable."

I feel like quitting, and yet I cannot. I feel so trapped.

Believe or it not, that could turn out to be a good thing. Because it is so difficult to quit, you are forced to fight it out. You can win this! I'm wishing the best of luck to you next week.

Beth

[slingblade]

I just talked to my department head, and while she seemed a little more sympathetic, her basic instructions to me were to do whatever I have to do to get through.

No, she has not spoken to my supervisor today, but she is aware of the various plans he has come up with for me to transition out of the classroom. I told her we had decided I would finish my unit on business letters, and then leave her classroom completely, to do observation in other classrooms in the morning. I'm still teaching the one class in the afternoons for the rest of the semester, but the other teacher will be doing all the planning.

So, that's what I have to do. I can't afford an attorney, and while I will ask the union what they advise, they've already told me their services are for members only. I'm going to ask anyway. I'll deal with it, I guess. What else can I do?

It's okay. If nothing else, I'll just go back to school and get a different degree.

[slingblade]

He called you at home on Sunday afternoon! What's up with that?

No, he asked me a few days ago to call him on Sunday. There were supposed to be two meetings: one at my college, between Supervisor, Dept. Head, and me, and one at the school between my mentors, me, him, and the principal.

As far as I know, neither meeting was arranged. He and I did discuss my "exit strategy" of finishing my unit and then leaving her classes altogether for observation.

If he doesn't know who to believe, what he'll likely do is go by his past history with each of you. Which story is more consistent with his past experiences with the two of you? Hopefully, he'll conclude you are the one more likely to be giving the truth of the matter. Has he seen you screaming? Heard other similar stories from other peope about you? Probably not. But you are not the only one with such complaints about your mm. You are the one with the history of staying calm. She is not.

Oh, no such luck. He's seen me cry a couple of times. He says he understands what provokes it, but I can tell he thinks less of me for it.

Believe or it not, that could turn out to be a good thing. Because it is so difficult to quit, you are forced to fight it out. You can win this! I'm wishing the best of luck to you next week.

Beth

Thanks, Beth. I'll try my best.

[rjh01]

Oh, no such luck. He's seen me cry a couple of times. He says he understands what provokes it, but I can tell he thinks less of me for it.

But has he (or other witnesses) ever actually seen you scream at students, teachers or other people?

Actually you can use the fact that you cry to your advantage. It is a symptom of the stress you are under. It is one point to raise with your lawyer. And if he starts drooling at this point it is not because he has rabies.

[wollery]

But has he (or other witnesses) ever actually seen you scream at students, teachers or other people?

Actually you can use the fact that you cry to your advantage. It is a symptom of the stress you are under. It is one point to raise with your lawyer. And if he starts drooling at this point it is not because he has rabies.Seconded, it shows that you react to stress by getting sad, not angry.

[slingblade]

But has he (or other witnesses) ever actually seen you scream at students, teachers or other people?

Actually you can use the fact that you cry to your advantage. It is a symptom of the stress you are under. It is one point to raise with your lawyer. And if he starts drooling at this point it is not because he has rabies.

I've never screamed at a student, so no.
I did get mad at a professor, once, but he and I worked it out, and he actually teases me about it now.
That's all. My biggest problem is that when I'm stressed, I cry.

I called a couple of lawyers one day last week. Both said they'd need retainers to even look into my situation. I'm broke. I don't work because this is full-time. I don't think I can get a lawyer.

It's okay; it'll all work out somehow. Thank you.

[rjh01]

I called a couple of lawyers one day last week. Both said they'd need retainers to even look into my situation. I'm broke. I don't work because this is full-time. I don't think I can get a lawyer.


Do you have any relatives you can get money from? You may have to tell them it may be a awhile before they can get their money back. Like after you get a good job. Or win the lawsuit.

[slingblade]

Nope. No one in my family has that kind of money. I'll keep trying to find someone, maybe pro bono.

[Beth]

[QUOTE=slingblade;1514897
Oh, no such luck. He's seen me cry a couple of times. He says he understands what provokes it, but I can tell he thinks less of me for it.[/quote]

Having leaky eyes isn't the same as loosing control or screaming. Really, it isn't. So hopefully he will be on your side. You can win this. It sounds like you only have a week to go with the current situation. You can do it!

[rjh01]

If you do have a meeting and several people are there make sure you have a friend there too. Even a friendly teacher would be good. Even just to hold her hand. If she can defend you and explain your case then she would put a very powerful case for you.

[slingblade]

That's not up to me, unfortunately. I can't just bring anyone into these meetings, especially since I'm going to claim, rightfully, that my privacy has been violated on numerous occasions.

There isn't anyone to bring, anyway. But thanks for the advice.

[slingblade]

Good morning, and welcome to the beginning of the end.

My supervisor will be at the school first thing this morning.
I am bringing my recorder.

I don't expect this to go well at all, and if I'm still in the program by day's end, I will be more surprised than anyone. I'll post later what happens today.

I would have been a great teacher.

[delphi_ote]

Good morning, and welcome to the beginning of the end.

My supervisor will be at the school first thing this morning.
I am bringing my recorder.

I don't expect this to go well at all, and if I'm still in the program by day's end, I will be more surprised than anyone. I'll post later what happens today.

I would have been a great teacher.
Good luck! You'll do great! :)

[slingblade]

Well,, I'm not leaving any classrooms--I have to teach all five classes all semester long, even though we're only supposed to solo teach 8 weeks and I've done that.

I was wrong, I was lazy, I was trying too hard to get out of doing my work.
I need to shape up, and MM is just being tough on me cause that's what I need.

Shut up and teach. So, it's over. Nothing was solved, resolved or satisfied.
I am kissing ass as hard as I can.

Guess what? I officially hate teaching now. But that's my fault too.
Thanks for al the help. Everything's okay now.

[Roadtoad]

Well,, I'm not leaving any classrooms--I have to teach all five classes all semester long, even though we're only supposed to solo teach 8 weeks and I've done that.

I was wrong, I was lazy, I was trying too hard to get out of doing my work.
I need to shape up, and MM is just being tough on me cause that's what I need.

Shut up and teach. So, it's over. Nothing was solved, resolved or satisfied.
I am kissing ass as hard as I can.

Guess what? I officially hate teaching now. But that's my fault too.
Thanks for al the help. Everything's okay now.

Know what I think? I think they took a look at 16 single spaced pages of notes on what was going on in their classrooms, and realized you had them by the cojones.

No, this is NOT your fault. It's the fault of the mentors who were so hell bent on putting you through the same sh** they went through when they started teaching, because "that's the way it's done." Frankly, it's the same thing I've gone through with new trucking jobs; a few weeks of macho melodrama, just so you know how tough everyone is.

The good news is you're still at it. They're going to let you continue. Give it your best, Sling. You'll make it, and do yourself proud.

The best thing to keep in mind: When it's your turn to be a mentor, you'll know what to do, and how to do it so people succeed.

[slingblade]

Oh, no. They never saw my documentation. This wasn't "the meeting," so I didn't bring it. It was just Supervisor, Bitch, and me. The two meetings I was supposed to have were never arranged, and now never will be arranged, so all the documentation is for nothing, since no one will see it now.

I'm keeping it and adding to it, but I'll probably end up just throwing it away in June.

She got angry with me again, in front of him, and he just sat there and let her. This program and the schools are allied against the student teachers.
I met someone else from my program today who is now teaching, and she took one look at me and said "They're doing it to you, too, aren't they?"

So we chatted after school and she told me what I consider the straight dope: The program and the schools are not trying to train new teachers. They are, quite literally, working together to weed out as many of us as they can. If the college graduates only a certain small number of teachers, the program looks tough and well-designed, and gains more prestige.

The program has been totally restructured every year for the last four years. It has had a brand new director three years running, now, and rumor has it, the current director isn't sure she's staying on.

So. I'll just pucker at both ends and try to stick with it. What else can I do; I'm too old to start again.

[Roadtoad]

Oh, ho! So now, the truth comes out!

Sounds like you could use a laugh, Sling. Read the latest entry. Trust me. (http://www.thesociablecritic.com/)

You're not alone. In any of this.

[slingblade]

Oh, gawd!

I read that to my husband. He was a driver too, once, and he particularly appreciated the THWACK! Dingdingding… parts. Said he could picture it perfectly. He hauled logs in Georgia and OTR up north, so he knows exactly what you're talking about.

We both had a helluva laugh, thanks!!

And Toad...

:sewub:

[slingblade]

Just had a thought. A bad thought.

Tomorrow is my mid-term evaluation meeting.
It strikes me as very likely that one or both mentors will say that at the current time they cannot give me a good evaluation, but if I continue to teach the remainder of the semester and work my behind off, they might--might--pass me.

Is that a kind of blackmail, extortion, or some other crime? I bet you, I just bet you, that's what they do tomorrow.

[rjh01]

Take your recorder and record it anyway. Then if your mentor gets nasty at you and you do not get nasty to her then you have all the proof you need.

[Zbu]

Still, I have to wonder exactly how effective their program is if they have to give the appearance of being rough instead of letting their program doing the work for them. Seems like they're more bark than bite.

Brave heart, Sling. You'll get through this because you're tough. Much more tough than some pathetic old teachers who probably aren't that good at teaching anyway. Anybody who tortures starting teachers like that is pretty much a loser anyway, just like anybody else who gets overtly macho at their job: Pathetic.

[slingblade]

They withdrew me from student teaching today, but I wasn't there for it.

I came down violently ill this morning, went to the school nurse, and she sent me to my doctor--she even made the appointment for me. I've a bad case of stomach flu, so he sent me home. He called my school for me and let them know I was ill.

He gave me some anti-nausea meds and they knocked me out, so I've been asleep all afternoon. I just checked my email, and my supervisor wrote to say they had my eval without me. I called him and asked him if I was withdrawn, and he said I was, but that he wouldn't talk to me about it until tomorrow.

I don't know if I'm with drawn from the program entirely, or if it's just from this semester and I can finish next fall.

Was it illegal or unethical for them to do this without me?

[Roadtoad]

In a word, yes.

[wollery]

It's certainly unethical.

[slingblade]

Thanks, guys.

I spoke just now with one of the education staff from my college, a professor I worked with last year, and she said she doubted I had been withdrawn entirely--just for this semester, and that I can finish out next fall. But she couldn't promise that, and I wouldn't expect her to make such an agreement over the phone, anyway.

However, she hadn't even heard I'd been asked to leave the school today, and she said if I had been withdrawn from the program entirely, she thinks she would have known.

I think I know what some of you will say to this next, but I have to tell you, I feel like such a failure. I'll keep plugging away at this, however.

And thanks again for all the good advice and good wishes. You've meant a lot to me these past few weeks, and I'm proud to know you all.

[Roadtoad]

Sling, something genuinely stinks here. And there has got to be someone who can help you.

Grab your white pages, and look up "Legal Aid." Call them first thing tomorrow. There has GOT to be someone who will help you. Take along your notes, and talk to someone who can do some good for you.

Be careful. Some legal aid attorneys are worse than useless. Ask a LOT of questions.

[slingblade]

Hey, Toad,

My college says they can't force a tacher or a school to work with me. It can be for something as subjective as "I don't think she's a good fit, and don't want her here anymore," and pffft! I'm gone.

I will get an attorney somehow if they try to release me from the program entirely. But the prof I just spoke to said it's more likely they will instead try to find me a new placement and a better mentor, and I can just finish later than I expected.

[Roadtoad]

That's good. So long as they don't boot you out. If you can still finish the program, then there's some good in that.

In the meantime, I still say get with an attorney. Cover EVERY base, as much as possible.

[slingblade]

I hope I can finish. I'm still not sure what I did that was found unacceptable.
My supervisor says, "It's not what you did wrong, it's your performance."

That just tells me she's been lying about me, and the mistakes I have made, to which I admit, have been magnified out of all proportion.

[slingblade]

Grab your white pages, and look up "Legal Aid."

There's no such listing in my phone book.
I'll call someone else and see if they can tell me how to find such a thing.

ETA: I think I found it online. I'll call as soon as they open.



I wonder if Mr. Randi has an opening for an English major with good crit thinking skills and a sense of humor?

[slingblade]

I contacted Legal Aid. They can't help me. They deal primarily in domestic disputes. I did tell the woman who called me some of what's happening, and she said I'd need to contact a civil law attorney--legal aid couldn't help me.

Had the meeting today with the college. My supervisor, my professor from last semester, and the director were there. They gave me the following options:

1. Wait until next fall, at which time they will place me in a Middle School. They no longer think high school is a good "fit" for me. I will do 8 more weeks of student teaching, and will earn my certification if I complete them satisfactorily.

2. Withdraw temporarily from the teaching program, graduate in May with my English BA, and apply to be a substitute teacher. I can do that for one or two semesters--if I'm hired as a sub, that is--and can then come back to the program, do my student teaching, and get my certification if I'm successful.

3. Withdraw from teaching and graduate with my BA in English, and it was nice knowing you, good luck.

I haven't decided yet which option to take.

[Ducky]

My humble opinion is to do the middle school teaching. I loved middle school age teaching when I subbed.

That's just my opinion, takeit for what it is worth: Advice from someone who never actually became a teacher.

Whatever you do, I do not think you should feel responsible or angry at yourself for what has happened. You did the best you could do, and jackasses above you like to snipe the newbies. IT's crap. You are a good person, and will make a great teacher.

[slingblade]

Thanks, Fowl.

I do have to accept some responsibility for this, as I believe in personal responsibility. It would be too easy for me to say the big, bad meanies did it all to me, and I'm innocent.

I did make mistakes. I just don't see them the way the mentors and the college saw them.

I think I'm going to try the middle school student teaching, next semester. If I still have problems, then I'll have to agree that teaching's not for me, no matter how much I want to do it.

My big problem with that is not knowing what else I can do with a BA in English, at 47, and a lifetime work-history as a waitress.

Anyone got any ideas? Or any jobs? :)

Oh, and they also suggested I get counseling for my poor stress management. I tend to agree. (I'm afraid after all the abuse I've endured, I"m a "broken" person, and there's really no place for me in the world.)

I wish I could come up with a good plot. I could write for a living, but I can never think of endings. Good beginnings, good middles, no ends. Sigh.

Thanks a lot Fowl. You've been a real help to me. Hugs.

[Ducky]

Thanks, Fowl.

anytime.

I do have to accept some responsibility for this, as I believe in personal responsibility. It would be too easy for me to say the big, bad meanies did it all to me, and I'm innocent.

I can respect that, but at the same time remind you really, your fault is not in instigating, possibly in reacting, but not in starting this mess.

I did make mistakes. I just don't see them the way the mentors and the college saw them.

Everyone makes mistakes, and if everyone thought as though academics did, we'd all have some very high horses to ride. I have enough academics in my family to know that a sheltered view of situations at a campus is very different from reality outside said campus.

I think I'm going to try the middle school student teaching, next semester. If I still have problems, then I'll have to agree that teaching's not for me, no matter how much I want to do it.

I think you'll enjoy it alot. Very different scene.

My big problem with that is not knowing what else I can do with a BA in English, at 47, and a lifetime work-history as a waitress.

Anyone got any ideas? Or any jobs? :)

I could use a publicist. The pay's crap, though.

Oh, and they also suggested I get counseling for my poor stress management. I tend to agree. (I'm afraid after all the abuse I've endured, I"m a "broken" person, and there's really no place for me in the world.)

Horsesh*t. "Broken" does not mean exiled. You will endure and be better for it, just as you have up till now.

I wish I could come up with a good plot. I could write for a living, but I can never think of endings. Good beginnings, good middles, no ends. Sigh.

I have the same problem with music at times. Keep thinking, the muse will come to you.

Thanks a lot Fowl. You've been a real help to me. Hugs.

Anytime :)

[JamesDillon]

Slingblade,

Do you mind if I ask where you're located? (Feel free to pm if you prefer not to say so in public). Legal Aid is probably not what you want, but there may be other public service groups that could offer legal advice to someone in your situation. In reading through this thread, I'm not sure that you have a solid ground for taking legal action, or that filing a lawsuit is necessarily the best strategic move, but it can't hurt to speak with an attorney who has expertise in these matters and knows about your local law.

[slingblade]

No, it's all right. I live on the western slope in Colorado.

I don't even know what I'd want an attorney for, at this point. It'd be nice to not have to pay back some or all of those student loans if my career doesn't work out, but that's about it. I can't force them to let me be a teacher.

There are other things I'm interested in doing, but I don't know how one goes about doing them, or if I could find a job doing them at my age. But I love psychology, archaeology, zoology, and writing. I could write killer ethnographies. I'd also make an excellent proofreader.

Anyway, about the attorney, if you've any suggestions, I'm wide open at this point. And thanks!

[JamesDillon]

I know one attorney in Denver, and I just emailed her to ask if she knows of any public interest groups that might provide representation or legal advice on a pro bono basis. I'm informed by her out-of-office message that she's on vacation this week, so it may be a few days before I hear anything. I'll let you know when I do.

[slingblade]

I'm very grateful for your time, attention, and help.
Thanks so much, JD.

[BlackCat]

Hi, I actually did read through this entire thread, and you have my condolences. I don't know what else to say other than, hang in there, and you've done a great job sticking through this mess.

One thought that I did have, that others didn't mention was, do you have to teach high school? What I mean is, it's possible to go back to school, get your Master's degree (in anything you want), then, you can still teach, only now, you can teach whatever you want, and at the junior college level. At that level, there's no student teaching or mentors. It's all you.

You'll probably hate that idea though, because it involves more money and more schooling. But, here's why I think it's good: if you go back to school, you can delay paying off your loans, giving you some breathing room; your degree is not wasted, in fact, you're building on it; and you'll still get to teach!

That's how it is around here, anyway, but I'm sure it would be similar where you are. Just another idea for you....

BlackCat

[slingblade]

Hi, I actually did read through this entire thread, and you have my condolences. I don't know what else to say other than, hang in there, and you've done a great job sticking through this mess.

One thought that I did have, that others didn't mention was, do you have to teach high school? What I mean is, it's possible to go back to school, get your Master's degree (in anything you want), then, you can still teach, only now, you can teach whatever you want, and at the junior college level. At that level, there's no student teaching or mentors. It's all you.

You'll probably hate that idea though, because it involves more money and more schooling. But, here's why I think it's good: if you go back to school, you can delay paying off your loans, giving you some breathing room; your degree is not wasted, in fact, you're building on it; and you'll still get to teach!

That's how it is around here, anyway, but I'm sure it would be similar where you are. Just another idea for you....

BlackCat

And a good idea. I love being a student. I could be one for the rest of my life and be happy.

Can I do that through distance learning? My school offers only an MBA and a masters in education. I'd rather not work with anyone from that department any more, as you can imagine.

I've wanted to teach at my college, or frankly at any college. I'll look into this, and thanks for the encouragement!

(And wow...you read through 10+ pages? Thank you!)

[Ducky]

And a good idea. I love being a student. I could be one for the rest of my life and be happy.

Can I do that through distance learning? My school offers only an MBA and a masters in education. I'd rather not work with anyone from that department any more, as you can imagine.

I've wanted to teach at my college, or frankly at any college. I'll look into this, and thanks for the encouragement!

(And wow...you read through 10+ pages? Thank you!)


SB- PM me about this.

[slingblade]

Never mind this post. Sorry about that.

[BlackCat]

And a good idea. I love being a student. I could be one for the rest of my life and be happy.

Can I do that through distance learning? My school offers only an MBA and a masters in education. I'd rather not work with anyone from that department any more, as you can imagine.

It depends on the school and their programs. I would suggest looking into the junior colleges and universities in your area to see if they offer a Master's degree through distance learning or if you can transfer there. I understand not wanting to work with "those" people anymore.

I've wanted to teach at my college, or frankly at any college. I'll look into this, and thanks for the encouragement!

(And wow...you read through 10+ pages? Thank you!)

You're welcome. I did so because it was so compelling, like a good book, I had to see how it ended! (But it seems the ending hasn't been written yet....)

BlackCat

[slingblade]

Damn. See? I told you I can't do endings!

(Actually, here's one)

And then it came to her. The perfect revenge, and one perfectly suited to her talents and disposition.

She got up from the couch, wiping the tears from her glasses, and padded quietly into the den. Stale cigarette smoke hung in the darkness, but she dispelled that by lighting a fresh one and flipping on the light switch.

As she sat down and booted up the computer, she wondered if she should bother with the standard disclaimer, that "no relation to actual persons either living or dead" crap.

Nah. What would be the fun in that?

-30-

[JamesDillon]

Slingblade,

Sorry for the long delay; I've been stuck in Canada without regular Internet access for a week now (hopefully I'm going home tomorrow). I heard from my friend in Denver last week, and she had a few ideas as to how you might pursue legal advice if you're still interested in doing so. She recommended contacting the law schools at Colorado University or Denver University to ask if they have employment law clinics (courses in which law students take on pro bono cases). Also, she suggested that you might call the Colorado Bar Association for an attorney referral. Unfortunately she didn't know anyone who practices plaintiff's-side employment work.

I hope that helps-- good luck!

[slingblade]

James, thank you for all your help.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I've been trying to contact my college to arrange a new internship this fall, and I can't get a call-back. I am, of course, thinking the worst.

Honestly, I think I'll just go back to fast-food work. And laugh every time someone wants to know what's wrong with our schools these days.

[Roadtoad]

I'm hoping that given some time, you have rethought your plan of action.

[slingblade]

RT, there isn't much thinking to do. I have limited options, so there isn't much of a choice to make.

I'm graduating May 21 with my BA in English. I finally heard back from the Edu dept., and they are supposedly trying to set up a new mentorship for me for the fall. If they "can find anyone who will take me" (their words), then I can student teach for 8 more weeks. If I don't (rule 8) that up, then I should be certified. (One thing I like is how they removed me after 8 weeks this term, and will only let me student teach 8 weeks next term, but they're charging me full tuition for both 16-week terms.)

I'm going to try to start my master's program through distance learning, perhaps this summer. I'd like to actually attend an MFA school, but I can't afford to move, nor to move my mom, and she can't stay here alone.

So, those are my plans.

Hope things are going better for you and your fam, and that you have plenty of bubblegum. :)

[Major Billy]

So how are things going SlingBlade? And congratulations to the graduate!

[BPScooter]

Hi all,

I too read through this thread but was too shy to reply. A big part of my job is serving as 'university observer' for many, many students who I barely know. As a teacher trainer/educator, it is scary how little one can do to change anything about such a situation, or any situation. In teaching, one learns by, well, teaching. Slingblade at least got to teach. Some students get in with a situation where the main person can't seem to ever give up the podium. Others get into crappy schools, or with mentors who have no clue at all. The best situations are good. Young novice observes from, talks to, plans with wise elder. The power is transferred gradually, and at the end it's just like the lord of the frigging rings with an old Bilbo.

In my dreams! My way is to take good notes on my observations, related to teaching and pedagogy, delivery, etc., and then present them in an immediate face-to-face meeting. This is almost completely positive information, with some "frontiers for exploration and improvement." I write those up in a simple format (timeline, what I saw, what I thought) and send them to the student only. I have never gotten a complaint and only a wish that I could have been more involved. But the reality is that I can't spend quantity time with anybody, and therefore quality counts.

I have never had to deal with an obvious mismatch of student, mentor, and situation as Slingblade has presented to us. It could have been so much the better for everyone if the actors had been in different plays. Who sets up these assignments? Do they even know the first thing about the people involved, or are they just looking at maps?

BP

[slingblade]

BP, I guess I have to say it's my "fault," as I observed with this mentor for several weeks, and then requested her for my mentor during internship.

But she wasn't like this during observation. Not a bit. I had no idea we were such a volatile combination.

I still have not heard from the Edu department about next fall. I'm working on getting lesson plans together for 6th through 8th grades, as I have no idea what I'll be teaching (or even if), but want very much to be fully prepared.

And I'm worried, nervous, and scared.

We'll see how it goes. Thanks for your comments!




Major Billy, thank you! :D

[BPScooter]

Good luck, Slingblade, I think you're on the right track by being persistent. I don't know if "blame" is the right word, maybe so, but I wasn't trying to pin anything particular on you. In my case I can make recommendations for particular placements for student teachers, but there is quite a bit of "turf protection" going on in the education department and they get a little huffy if they don't feel like they are running the show. It's bad for me and my students since we are a specilized subject and if a student gets placed with a sub-par teacher or in a very difficult school situation, the whole experience becomes pretty meaningless or at worst a disaster. But as I said, I've never run into a situation quite like yours, I doubt I would even know what to do--I like to think I would be more responsive than your supervisors seem to have been, but it's hard to say. Hang in there, I bet in future years you will look back on this and realize that in spite of the difficulty, you have gained a lot of things.

[Roadtoad]

Big time bump. This needs to be read again.

[slingblade]

As of today, it's officially over. Mostly.

There is no internship for me, nor any prospect of one.

I'm trying now to see if I can get out to Las Vegas and enter their alternative licensure program.

Thanks again to everyone for all the help and suggestions.

[Meffy]

Blast. >:-(