The "killer bee", a mistake?

[T'ai Chi]

Are Africanized "killer" honey bees considered a mistake?

[brettDbass]

Just three questions of the many I could ask...

A mistake in what way?
Made by whom?
Compared to what?

[Ririon]

I would consider them to be insects.

[TV's Frank]

Maybe "killer" honey bees are a "mistake".

[Blue Monk]

I would say yes in the respect that they escaped from a research facility in South America thereby introducing a dangerous species into a foreign environment

That is assuming my memory of how they came to be here is correct.

[LTC8K6]

Well, the release that created them was a mistake...

With all of the dire warnings and TV shows about them, you'd think these Africanized bees would have already killed everyone in North America by now....

[Blue Monk]

Well, the release that created them was a mistake...

With all of the dire warnings and TV shows about them, you'd think these Africanized bees would have already killed everyone in North America by now....

ding-dong

"Who is it?"

"Candy-gram"

[Ririon]

With all of the dire warnings and TV shows about them, you'd think these Africanized bees would have already killed everyone in North America by now....
And why are there people left in Africa?

But seriously: Are there any clever insect experts here who can explain why the African honey bee has not invaded Europe?

[Hindmost]

take a look...they are a problem. There is a show on discovery channel that gave a good summary on the bees...it should show up again sometime.

glenn:boxedin:

http://honeybee.tamu.edu/index.html

[lumos]

I live in Texas where our bees can be Africanized. I rarely hear of people getting stung by multiple bees and people rarely die from bee attacks. I have bees all over my gardens and have yet to be stung. They hang out almost all year enjoying my flowers. I spend a lot of time near them.

While I've heard that Africanized bees can be more aggressive and attack more readily, they are no more likely to initiate a sting over regular bees. You can't tell an Africanized bee from a regular bee without close examination under a microscope.

I wouldn't worry about it.

Was it a mistake? Sure. A deadly one? No.

(Note: if I get attacked by Africanized bees, I'll take back what I said here.)

[Soapy Sam]

If we are concerned about introducing dangerous species into non-native habitats, then maybe we should all haul our collective asses back to Africa where we belong and start killing bees?

[ohms]

But seriously: Are there any clever insect experts here who can explain why the African honey bee has not invaded Europe?

It tried so we switched off the lights and pretended we weren't in. :D

Actually, I think it's something to do with the Africanised bee prefering a tropical climate but I can't find a source for that right now.

[popsy]

All honey bees in our area are to be considered Africanized so we are told to be wary of them. They are aggressive in heat, which we have to extreme in the summer, and also if they are disturbed by loud noises and other irritants. These warnings mainly apply near their hives about which they get more defensive than regular European honey bees. Horses and dogs have been killed with stings in Arizona, I don't remember off-hand if there have been human deaths. African bees can't take as much cold as their Euro-cousins, so they will likely only be a problem in areas of warmish winters.

[Ririon]

It tried so we switched off the lights and pretended we weren't in. :D

Actually, I think it's something to do with the Africanised bee prefering a tropical climate but I can't find a source for that right now.
It has to be something like that. The honey bees used in the USA are imported from Europe. The "Killer Bees" are basically African honey bees. But the climate in southern Europe is not much different from like halfway up the USA, is it? Which would mean that the "Killer Bees" have a northern limit somewhere in the USA. Right?

[Santa666]

[quote=lumos;1458166]
While I've heard that Africanized bees can be more aggressive and attack more readily, they are no more likely to initiate a sting over regular bees. quote]

This looks very much like a contradictory statement. Africanized bees are indeed much more aggressive and prone to attack more readily. These very traits make them more likely to initiate a sting over other bees. Am I missing something here?


Santa

[Amapola]

I'm no bee expert but I keep bees and have some living about 30' from my back door.

Africanized bees have more "guards" outside the hive than European honey bees - about 3 times as many. When the guards give the alarm, far more Africanized bees respond, and they respond much faster, than European honey bees. Also, Africanized bees will continue to attack an enemy for approximately 1100 yards from the hive - that's about 10 times as far as European bees. The venom is exactly the same, the danger lies in the amount of attackers that will sting and the length of time they will continue to pursue a perceived enemy of the hive. Also, any Africanized bee can only sting once, and once she does so, she will die. This is just like European bees.

The main thing that stops the spread of Africanized bees further north is the cold winters. Africanized bees don't tend to huddle together in cold weather and are more susceptible to freezing. European bees all huddle together during cold weather, constantly changing which bees are on the outside and therefore coldest, and can survive very cold weather.

People who keep bees can re-queen their hives, if the hive has been superceded by an Africanized queen. The queen is the mother of all the bees in the hive, and the average lifespan of a worker bee is 6 weeks. If the beekeeper is on top of things, and re-queens quickly, things can be kept under control - at least for bees that are kept. Bees that are in the wild can not be controlled, so I doubt Africanized bees will ever be eradicated.

Do I think they are a mistake? This is no more of a mistake, or more stupid, than many other things humans have done that did not turn out the way everyone anticipated. For example, introducing domestic rabbits to Australia was every bit as stupid. So was introducing the Arabian Oryx to White Sands, NM. It's quite a long list. At least Africanized bees were a genuine mistake! No one did it on purpose. Personally I think all these things were stupid and short sighted but there is no use getting excited about it now - that is what happened, and we have to deal with it.

[RSLancastr]

Where is Joshua Korosi when you need him?

[Checkmite]

The Africanized honey bee is the result of an experiment which would combine European and African strains of honey bees. The ideal outcome was a new strain which would have both the comparative gentleness of the European strain and the tropical hardiness of the African strain. African honey bees are naturally highly aggressive. They are also quite tropical, and could not survive in too cold a climate. Europeans are naturally more gentle, but are unable to cope well with the extreme heat and lack of seasonal change in the equatorial climes. It was thought that a combination bee could be put to work in tropical South America, in order to exploit all that wonderful tropical plant life.

What really ended up happening was that the African genes pretty much dominated the European genes, creating bees that were still hostile and tropical. Somebody left a swarm guard off that should've been left on, and a colony of the hybrids swarmed off to be fruitful and multiply. One thing's for certain - the Africanized gals work like dogs. Brazil, whose bee population can be safely considered to be 100% Africanized, is the world's fourth-largest honey producer. They're also quite hygenic, and more resistant to nasty critters like those (Rule 8)-ing varroa mites than Europeans. But, they're still tropical, and don't like cold winters because, as Amapola said, they don't winter cluster well - they don't carry the instinct. In order for a colony of Africanized bees to "breed" its way into colder climates, it would have to naturally-select itself into a more-European-less-African strain. Naturally, the more the African genes are diluted, the less the African traits manifest themselves - which means that past a certain boundary, "Africanized" bees may technically encroach further north but they're so European at that point that the Africanization becomes no longer an issue.

Meanwhile, Africanized bees are here to stay in the extreme southern US, and Central and South America, so people will have to deal with them. They already deal with them quite well in South America, as I have mentioned. A few points: Africanized bees are more aggressive when disturbed, but they're no easier to disturb than Europeans. In other words, they'll still mind their own business until you piss them off - but boy do they have a temper. Observers have noted that when Africanized colonies become defensive, they don't seem to be concerned as much as Europeans about keeping house bees and brood-tenders inside the hive, which results in a larger can of (Rule 8). This may be due again to the "tropicality" of the strain - less nursers required to keep the brood warm when it's always hot anyway. Also, don't worry about low-frequency noise disturbing bees. Unless the music is loud and close enough to physically shake the hive, the bees aren't going to care much.

I THINK (not entirely sure) that, in the United States, something like twenty people have been "killed" by Africanized bees in the last 15 years or so. Of course, if you're in the 1% of the American public that is allergic to bees, then the bee doesn't have to be Africanized to end your breath.

[Jeff Corey]

... In order for a colony of Africanized bees to "breed" its way into colder climates, it would have to naturally-select itself into a more-European-less-African strain. Naturally, the more the African genes are diluted, the less the African traits manifest themselves - which means that past a certain boundary, "Africanized" bees may technically encroach further north but they're so European at that point that the Africanization becomes no longer an issue...
Is it true that all those traits are so highly correlated that, for example, bees adapted to cooler climates would necessarily become less aggressive.?

[Checkmite]

Is it true that all those traits are so highly correlated that, for example, bees adapted to cooler climates would necessarily become less aggressive.?

It's true that both cold-adaptation and aggressiveness/gentleness are genetic traits, but they are not necessarily hand-in-hand. Nevertheless, despite what's theoretically possible, real life seems to be showing that the better-suited for cold weather a strain is, the easier it is to handle.

[Jeff Corey]

I don't want to mock my friend Claus and demand evidence, but... you got any?

[Checkmite]

You mean as far as technical papers or things of that nature? Well the only thing you might be able to find online is this Fact Sheet (http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2124.html) from The Ohio State University. The fact sheet's author is Dr. Jim Tew, who is like the god of bees. Well, maybe not a god - but he a pretty cool guy who knows his stuff. He's also a name I can drop, because I've had the privilege of speaking with him a few times. :cool:

I will drop a line to Dr. Tew and ask if he can point me toward the USDA study he mentions in the fact sheet.

[T'ai Chi]

I was just wondering in general, because I heard that some scientist, or some scientists' assistant left a cage (right word?) unlatched or something so the bees were able to escape.

I butchered that story, but something like that is what I heard.

[CFLarsen]

I was just wondering in general, because I heard that some scientist, or some scientists' assistant left a cage (right word?) unlatched or something so the bees were able to escape.

I butchered that story, but something like that is what I heard.
Get back when you have the accurate story.

Then, people have a fair chance of addressing your question properly.

[Jekyll]

Is caging bees like herding cats?

Anyway here's your story T.C. .
http://www.cabi-bioscience.ch/wwwgisp/gtc3cs2.htm

[Checkmite]

I was just wondering in general, because I heard that some scientist, or some scientists' assistant left a cage (right word?) unlatched or something so the bees were able to escape.

I butchered that story, but something like that is what I heard.

The scientist's name was Warwick Kerr. The experiment was conducted in Brazil in 1956. When the hybrids were produced, Kerr placed swarm guards on the entrances of his hives. Swarm guards are perforated metal plates; they've got holes large enough for worker bees to crawl through and do normal bee things, but too small for the queen to crawl through. This allows the hive to function normally, but prevents the hive from swarming - creating a new queen while the old queen flies off with half the colony to form a new colony elsewhere. Swarming is how colonies divide and reproduce. Of course, Kerr wanted to prevent that from happening. Unfortunately, somebody - one of the hired beekeepers, according to Kerr - removed the swarm screens, and the hives swarmed anyway. That's how the Africanized bees "escaped".

[Soapy Sam]

The transport of species around the world by humans is nothing new. Consider the reintroduction, by the conquistadors, of the horse to America.
Coypus in the fens, peas and beans to Britain by the Romans, Japanese bloody knotweed , red deer in New Zealand, Norway Rats everywhere, not to mention the introduction of humans themselves to every continent on Earth.

One might consider any of these and a thousand others a mistake in the sense of unwise in hindsight. If by a mistake we mean "accidental", that's a case by case question.

[Checkmite]

For those of you who are still interested in this, next Saturday I will be attending an extensive apiculture workshop in Wooster, Ohio - it's an annual thing which takes place at OSU's Bee Lab there. Dr. Tew will be there (he runs the place, after all), and I will make sure to ask him about this subject. I'll get you some sources, not to worry. :)

[Dragonrock]

Don't the Africanized beeds produce more honey than the european bees? Many years ago I believe I saw something about how they are being used quite happily by bee keepers in central america.

[CFLarsen]

For those of you who are still interested in this, next Saturday I will be attending an extensive apiculture workshop in Wooster, Ohio - it's an annual thing which takes place at OSU's Bee Lab there. Dr. Tew will be there (he runs the place, after all), and I will make sure to ask him about this subject. I'll get you some sources, not to worry. :)
Shouldn't such an event be run by....a queen? ;)

[kookbreaker]

I had been lead to understand that while the African Bees are a bit more aggresive, their reputation comes from politics. The regime that replaced the one in power while Kerr was making his mistake was determined to demonize him and the previous regime. They did this by turning the somewhat dangerous African bee into Buzzing Yellow-Striped Death Incarnate in the minds of the media and the citizenry. The resulting fear was thus more fantasy than fact.

[robinson]

Based on a report I viewed this week, Killer Bees may turn out to be a blessing for the Americas. They can be used for pollination, can be managed by Beekeppers, (they have to be more careful), and their resistance to predation and disease means we are not going to be without bees.

In Africa the cape bees are wiping out both African and domesticated bee hives right now. How ironic.

The original point of bringing the African bees to South America was to try and breed them with domestic bees, to make a stronger bee. This is occurring all over the US right now, as domestic bees are becoming Africanized.

Life is stranger than we can imagine.

[Modified]

From a brief web search, it appears yellowjackets are by far the main culprit in US sting deaths, and that such deaths are often misreported as having been caused by "bee stings". I guess they get a pass because they are indigenous.

[robinson]

I hate the yellow jacket.