How much is a teenage Italian virgin worth?

[shecky]

According to Italian Court (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/02/17/italy.abuse.reut/index.html), virginity has a higher price if you get caught sexually abusing one.

The court ruled in favor of a man in his forties, identified only as Marco T., who forced his 14-year old stepdaughter to have oral sex with him after she refused intercourse.

The man, who has been sentenced to three years and four months in jail, lodged an appeal arguing that the fact that his stepdaughter had had sex with men before should have been taken into consideration during his trial as a mitigating factor.

The supreme court agreed, saying that because of her previous sexual experiences, the victim's "personality, from a sexual point of view, is much more developed than what would be normally expected of a girl of her age".
"It is therefore fair to argue that (the damage for the victim) would be lower" if the abused girl was not a virgin, Italian news agencies quoted the court as saying.

Feel free to insert tasteless punch line. :duck:

[AnotherSillyAlias]

I guess pedophilia is not a problem in Italy unless the kid happens to be a virgin. Not to mention a parent's duty of care! :mad:

[aerosolben]

Note the end of the article:
In recent years it has ruled that "an isolated and impulsive" pat on a woman's buttocks at work did not constitute sexual harassment, and returned a verdict that a woman could not have been raped because she was wearing skin-tight jeans.
I also note that in a thread I recently created (shameless plug goes here):

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=52432

I referenced an article about women's equality in the workplace in Europe. According to the article, Italy has one of the most gender-biased work forces on the continent - women only make up 18% of "high-level decision makers" (in government and business). Compare that to 45% in America.

[Ryokan]

I guess pedophilia is not a problem in Italy unless the kid happens to be a virgin. Not to mention a parent's duty of care! :mad:

Pedophilia?

FYI, the age of consent in Italy is 14. Which is not that uncommon for a European country.

[shecky]

Pedophilia?

FYI, the age of consent in Italy is 14. Which is not that uncommon for a European country.
Didn't you guys ever see Andy Warhol's Dracula? Count Dracula, having exhausted all the virgin blood in his native Transylvania, makes the fatal mistake of travelling to Italy in search of fresh virgin blood to consume. :D Marxist groundskeeper (Joe Dallesandro) has the task of "protecting" the last virgin from the clutches of the evil Count. ;)

[Beerina]

Pedophilia?

FYI, the age of consent in Italy is 14. Which is not that uncommon for a European country.

Well, remember many commentators come from Sexually Repressed America, where consentual sex with a 17 year old is just as bad as violently raping a 6 year old, both requiring infinitely harsh sentences, with permanent felony records and notification of local police wherever you live for the rest of your life. After your 20 years in the klink.

[Luke T.]

Well, remember many commentators come from Sexually Repressed America, where consentual sex with a 17 year old is just as bad as violently raping a 6 year old, both requiring infinitely harsh sentences, with permanent felony records and notification of local police wherever you live for the rest of your life. After your 20 years in the klink.

No.

[Luke T.]

According to Italian Court (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/02/17/italy.abuse.reut/index.html), virginity has a higher price if you get caught sexually abusing one.

The court ruled in favor of a man in his forties, identified only as Marco T., who forced his 14-year old stepdaughter to have oral sex with him after she refused intercourse.

The man, who has been sentenced to three years and four months in jail, lodged an appeal arguing that the fact that his stepdaughter had had sex with men before should have been taken into consideration during his trial as a mitigating factor.



Rape is rape is rape. It is not sex. So whether or not she has had sex in the past has nothing to do with the fact it is RAPE.

F**king a-holes.

ETA: If anything, the crime is exacerbated by the fact it was committed against this girl by someone who is supposed to be her protector.

Jesus, I'm pissed.

[The Black Fox]

Rape is rape is rape. It is not sex. So whether or not she has had sex in the past has nothing to do with the fact it is RAPE.

F**king a-holes.

ETA: If anything, the crime is exacerbated by the fact it was committed against this girl by someone who is supposed to be her protector.

Jesus, I'm pissed.

Agreed, 100%

[Cleon]

Rape is rape is rape. It is not sex. So whether or not she has had sex in the past has nothing to do with the fact it is RAPE.

F**king a-holes.

ETA: If anything, the crime is exacerbated by the fact it was committed against this girl by someone who is supposed to be her protector.

Jesus, I'm pissed.

Same page.

Same page EXACTLY.

[luchog]

I guess pedophilia is not a problem in Italy unless the kid happens to be a virgin. Not to mention a parent's duty of care! :mad:
If she's 14, it's not paedophilia. Paedophilia is sex with a pre-sexual, aka, pre-pubescent child. By 14, a person is definitely sexually mature. To attach the lable "paedophile" to any sort of violation of arbitrary cultural minimum-age requirements is to trivialize a serious problem.

[TragicMonkey]

If she's 14, it's not paedophilia. Paedophilia is sex with a pre-sexual, aka, pre-pubescent child. By 14, a person is definitely sexually mature. To attach the lable "paedophile" to any sort of violation of arbitrary cultural minimum-age requirements is to trivialize a serious problem.

But physical maturity differs from individual to individual. Deciding that 14 is always sexually mature is just as bad as assuming the opposite.

[Freakshow]

I've had a virgin before. They aren't worth much. Women with SKILLS are worth much more. :D

(No, I didn't read the thread.)

[Renfield]

Well, remember many commentators come from Sexually Repressed America, where consentual sex with a 17 year old is just as bad as violently raping a 6 year old, both requiring infinitely harsh sentences, with permanent felony records and notification of local police wherever you live for the rest of your life. After your 20 years in the klink.

I've noticed this is really an obsession with you, Beer. What are you, a middle school teacher or something?

[clarsct]

Yeah.

Rape bad. Kill the bastard...skin, flay, etc.
(Unwilling rape, that is. I had to throw that one in for Freakshow.)

Now for the tasteless joke:
She's worth a gold medal in the Summer Olympics....any girl who can run that fast.....

[luchog]

But physical maturity differs from individual to individual. Deciding that 14 is always sexually mature is just as bad as assuming the opposite.
First, physical maturity and sexual maturity are two different things.

Sexual development varies, but not by that much. It's extremely rare for sexual maturity not to be completed by 14; and any development after that is just overall physical development, which can continue up until the early 20s.

[TragicMonkey]

First, physical maturity and sexual maturity are two different things.

Sexual development varies, but not by that much. It's extremely rare for sexual maturity not to be completed by 14; and any development after that is just overall physical development, which can continue up until the early 20s.

Well, you hath spoken. Immediately change the laws on age of consent, everyone.

[geni]

Well, you hath spoken. Immediately change the laws on age of consent, everyone.

Yeah to about 80. Belowe that people appear to be really good at misshandleing sex.

[luchog]

Well, you hath spoken. Immediately change the laws on age of consent, everyone.
Amazing the number of fallacies that can show up in one thread. In this post alone, there's a straw man and non sequitor all rolled into one concise sentence.

[TragicMonkey]

Amazing the number of fallacies that can show up in one thread. In this post alone, there's a straw man and non sequitor all rolled into one concise sentence.

Well, I'm just bowing to your certain wisdom that sexual maturity occurs before, and is completed by, age 14, and does not vary enough from individual to individual to bother mentioning.

I didn't even mention that "sexual maturity" depends on "physical maturity", where you seem to view them as separate things.

[Jorghnassen]

How much is a teenage Italian virgin worth?

Feel free to insert tasteless punch line.

I'm surprised no one has made a "x dollars per pound" joke. Am I the only tasteless pervert around here?

[Beerina]

I've noticed this is really an obsession with you, Beer. What are you, a middle school teacher or something?

Hey, I am an equal-opportunity get-bent-out-of-shape kind of guy, what can I say?

Don't you think it's a bit bizarre in America to have ungodly harsh sentences for "statuatory rape", i.e. consentual sex with a 17 year old? That is one of the areas the skeptics tacke, noting proponents of harsh sentences, illogically, liken that to the mental scarring caused by a severe mauling by a dog.

And, as demonstrated right here, you can't even mention minor opposition to it without being accused of it!

[luchog]

Well, I'm just bowing to your certain wisdom that sexual maturity occurs before, and is completed by, age 14, and does not vary enough from individual to individual to bother mentioning.

I didn't even mention that "sexual maturity" depends on "physical maturity", where you seem to view them as separate things.
Sexual maturity is a part of the physical process, and is generally completed by 13-14, while physical development is a multi-stage process that incorprates a number of different systems that develop at different rates and times. It generally reaches it's peak at 15-17, with all systems reaching their adult form by that point -- neurological system development is effectively done; and endocrine system development slows considerably. Overall growth (primarily bone development) continues up until the early 20s, and is chiefly body mass.

In the developed world, the age of onset of puberty has been decreasing due to improved nutrition; with some speculation that the presence of female hormones in a predominantly meat-based diet may also be triggering early onset.

And all of this is, of course, completely unreleated to the fact that you seem incapable of seperating physical/sexual maturity from mental/emotional maturity. Once you've figured that out, I'll be happy to continue the discussion. Not much point, otherwise.

[TimmyBerry]

Ah! Further proof that the world is even more messed up than I've thought.

... -A person who does not get why a hymen is so important.

[Mycroft]

Pedophilia?

FYI, the age of consent in Italy is 14. Which is not that uncommon for a European country.

I hear in Spain the age of consent is 13.

[Ryokan]

I hear in Spain the age of consent is 13.

Indeed. It used to be 12, but the EU made it a requirement to increase it if Spain was to join.

[Mycroft]

Indeed. It used to be 12, but the EU made it a requirement to increase it if Spain was to join.

Yikes! That's gotta be a record. At least I hope.

[gtc]

12 seems quite common in South America and the Phillipines.

Iran appears to have had an age of consent of 9 for girls.

Girls of 9 may marry under Iran's Sharia law, introduced after the revolution and sex outside marriage is illegal. Even sleeping in the same bed as someone without being reasonably covered is illegal. Before the revolution the age of consent was 16.

At least according to this (http://www.ageofconsent.com/iran.htm) (possibly unwork safe) site.

I don't know whether this applied in practice ever. Anyway, the secular law has raised the age of marriage into the teens since 2000 and appears to trump sharia law.

[Mycroft]

12 seems quite common in South America and the Phillipines.

Iran appears to have had an age of consent of 9 for girls.

Girls of 9 may marry under Iran's Sharia law, introduced after the revolution and sex outside marriage is illegal. Even sleeping in the same bed as someone without being reasonably covered is illegal. Before the revolution the age of consent was 16.

At least according to this (http://www.ageofconsent.com/iran.htm) (possibly unwork safe) site.

I don't know whether this applied in practice ever. Anyway, the secular law has raised the age of marriage into the teens since 2000 and appears to trump sharia law.

I think in Iran and under Sharia law, sex is allowed in marriage, and consent doesn’t really play into it.

[luchog]

I think in Iran and under Sharia law, sex is allowed in marriage, and consent doesn’t really play into it.
Many (the majority?) marriages are arranged. There is also the odd, idiosyncratic practice of "http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/tmpmrig.htm]sigheh", or temporary marriage; which is effectively a way to get around the prohibition on prostitution and pre-marital sex. (It seems to be unique to Iran, and is derived from a pre-Islamic Persian custom.)

There are recorded instances of parents offering their adolescent, pre-teen (9-12) children for sigheh, in exchange for monetary compensation.

[Mycroft]

Good point.