Loose Change

[kookbreaker]

Chertoff relations is bs or not...popular mechanics is still affiliated with the us government.


According to you, National Geogrpahic is aaffiliated with the government. What next? Highlights?


DO you ever read their magazines?


Yes. Unlike you, apparently.


They'd usually cover and review fighter jets and weaponry machines.


They also cover muscle cars, SUVs, powerboats, rockets, engineering projects, woodworking products, space projects (of all nations), gadgets, gimmicks, etc. etc.

You are so far off base it isn't funny.

[WildCat]

Chertoff relations is bs or not...popular mechanics is still affiliated with the us government. DO you ever read their magazines? They'd usually cover and review fighter jets and weaponry machines.
So now any media that writes about the military is "affiliated" w/ the government? Bizarre and strange, but mostly paranoid.

[kookbreaker]

BTW I e-mailed Ben Chertoff at Popular Mechanics to get confirmation on something written about earlier.

HE IS NOT RELATED TO MICHAEL CHERTOFF (Secretary of Homeland Security)!

He wrote:
"Not cousins, brothers, father, or son."

This a very common myth supported by the CT crowd, and a major debunking point for the PM article. I was willing to believe they might be related (even though it really didn't effect the facts of the article), but still wanted to hear it from a better source.

You might want to pass that along to your pals, geggy.

Well done CptColumbo. You found yet another lie of the CT'ers.

[kookbreaker]

So now any media that writes about the military is "affiliated" w/ the government? Bizarreand strange, but mostly paranoid.

There are several popular magazines that deal exclusively with military hardware. Just see how 'affiliated' they are with the government when a Democratic administration is in power. :rolleyes:

There aren't enough rolleyes for Geggy's nonsense.

[Manny]

According to you, National Geogrpahic is aaffiliated with the government. What next? Highlights?
Goofus engages in a massive murder conspiracy and coverup for reasons unknown. Gallant is a faithful representative of the people.

[juryjone]

According to you, National Geogrpahic is aaffiliated with the government. What next? Highlights?

Of course - the Timbertoes are all globalists!

And son't get me started on Goofus and Gallant. Ever notice how they resemble a young GWB?

ETA: manny, you were just too quick for me. That's not saying much...

[Pardalis]

The NIST also manipulated and downsized the columns core in their desperated attempt to make pancaking theory sound more plausible.

Let me ask you this. If you acknoledge this to be a possibility, would it be also possible, if you remain objective, that the Conspiracy theorists might be doing the same thing and manipulated facts to make their theories?

Well?

You are so far off base it isn't funny.

Geggy stopped being funny the minute he started talking about Hitler and the nazis.

[chipmunk stew]

The building implosion was also to maximize Silverstein's profit.How much profit did he make?
Find out how much his insurance policy covered.
Then subtract the lost revenue in lease contracts.
Then subtract rebuilding costs and increased insurance costs.
How much profit do you suppose he made?
Do you suppose it was worth the risk?

[chipmunk stew]

According to you, National Geogrpahic is aaffiliated with the government. What next? Highlights?Get 'em young, I like to say.

[pgwenthold]

According to you, National Geogrpahic is aaffiliated with the government. What next? Highlights?



Where do you think they came up with Goofus and Gallant?

(I guess it was just too obvious of a joke)

How about this one then:

Of course it is. Why do you think that the government has the "hidden items" in the tower pictures? Can you find the soup ladel? How about the top? And the yo-yo...

[Regnad Kcin]

Of course - the Timbertoes are all globalists!They kinda look French to me.

[aggle-rithm]

From my point of view, sept 11 was staged as PSYOP to maximize shock and to juice up the adrenaline/emotional meter to a full scale.

It WAS a "PSYOP", designed by al Qaeda to scare the hell out of people. That's what terrorism is for.

I thought the attack in NYC itself was very hollywood style, except for the fact it was real.

EXACTLY the way it was planned! al Qaeda was essentially putting on a big show to scare the Americans and give the sickos back home something to cheer about.

That's why I've never been particularly worried about terrorist attacks against water supplies or computer networks. It wouldn't serve their purposes because it's not visually stunning enough.


The building implosion was also to maximize Silverstein's profit.

This reminds me of the Austin Powers movie where Dr. Evil tried to extort a million dollars from the government, only to be told that the profits from his legitimate businesses pulled in more than that on a regular basis.

If Silverstein wanted a profit, the last thing he would do is destroy one of the biggest money-makers in the world, millions of square feet of office space in the middle of one of the most lucrative markets in history. How much revenue has he lost in the last five years? How much is it costing him to rebuild? I don't know for sure, but I would guess there are much easier and more efficient ways to earn a profit.


But that is only from my point of view as i believe the buildings were deliberately imploded.


Here we reach the crux of the matter. If you're REALLY interested in the truth, then don't filter everything you see and hear through your preconceived beliefs. It's much better to change your point of view in response to reality than to insist reality has got it wrong because it doesn't share your point of view.

[Regnad Kcin]

By the way, geggy, for the ninth time:

What do you do for a living?

[Ramooone]

ive been playing cathup on this thread but i thought of another problem with the CTer's

They claim that the FAA and NORAD weren't dispatched fast enough or were on hold whatever they say. Now, lets say hypothetically they weren't and were able to intercept one of the planes, then the CTer's would be complaining that "the govt shot down a passenger plane and theres no indication there were terrorists on board, they must have been covering it up by shooting it down" Thats scenario never happened, but i do believe the CTer's would respond in that way.

[Pardalis]

It's much better to change your point of view in response to reality than to insist reality has got it wrong because it doesn't share your point of view.

That is superb. Well put :)

[Pardalis]

Thats scenario never happened, but i do believe the CTer's would respond in that way.

The Truth movement is asking the GOVERNMENT to start a new investigation. Who is to say, if the government actually agrees and do it, the CT will be satisfied?

And who is to say that if the FBI finally releases the pentagon tapes, they won't think the tapes were altered?

[aggle-rithm]

...popular mechanics is still affiliated with the us government.....

... the plane flew right directly toward the center of the north tower....

...The north tower columns core at the impact hole were only half thick of the columns core in the imapct hole of the south tower...

...The NIST also manipulated and downsized the columns core in their desperated attempt to make pancaking theory sound more plausible....

....judging the size of the "inferno" and the color of the smoke billowing the towers, the heat was not as severe as the 1975 fire which came to 700 degrees c and was more intense....

....building implosion was also to maximize Silverstein's profit....


geggy,

What do all of the above segments have in common? They are all assertions that are not backed up by evidence. The only one that comes close is the one in which you admit that you are "judging" the heat of the fire based on size and smoke color, something you are probably not qualified to do.

Here's a tip: Whenever you state a belief, say IMMEDIATELY why you believe it's true. This will save time, because, as you may have noticed, you are ALWAYS asked to provide evidence for these claims.

In contrast, the following statement:

i believe the buildings were deliberately imploded.

Is absolutely true. It's not a fact, but a belief, and you said so. Bravo! Let's see more of that in the future, shall we?

[CptColumbo]

Oh my god, are you serious? That was one deception I hadn't even considered, since his being Michael's cousin seemed so irrelevant. The depths to which they'll stoop...
I hadn't considered it relevant either, but there seemed to be a lack of consensus as to what the relation was. I figured it couldn't be to hard to check out. I also figured it would be easier to ask Ben Chertoff than Michael Chertoff.

Geggy the only other thing he wrote was "I'm not related to Michael Chertoff." That and what I wrote above was the whole thing and answered the question I asked.

I also invited him to join us here. Hopefully he will, to lend his expertise.

[Pardalis]

Once you get caught in the paranoid mechanism, it's difficult to get out of it. It's a mechanism that will only push you further into psychosis. For your own good geggy, don't go back to these CT sites and concentrate on what's important, your life, your daughter.

You have plenty of reasons to dislike the Bush administration, you are absolutely intitled to your opinion. Nobody is going to keep that right away from you, not even the government itself. But don't combine political opinion with belief in an alternate reality. It's a bad mix, a drug that will only do you harm.

[aggle-rithm]

The Truth movement is asking the GOVERNMENT to start a new investigation. Who is to say, if the government actually agrees and do it, the CT will be satisfied?

And who is to say that if the FBI finally releases the pentagon tapes, they won't think the tapes were altered?

That's like telling your waitress, "The cook did a terrible job on my hamburger. Have him make me another one!"

Maybe the "Truthers" should take their business elsewhere?

[aggle-rithm]

For your own good geggy, don't go back to these CT sites and concentrate on what's important, your life, your daughter.



I honestly hope he's not one of those sad people who just pretends to have a life and a daughter.... :(

[geggy]

Like I've mentioned before...the towers' absestos was extremely high and the owner was forced to either remove the abestos or condemn the towers...

Interestly that some of you would bring up the exposure of radiation in the air during the nookular fallout...

Read this...

http://www.epa.gov/oig/reports/2003/wtc/epapr20011003.htm

And yet...

http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/press_releases/PR_2002/WTC_health.html

Buuuut...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,181925,00.html

[geggy]

1975 fire lasted 3 hours, hence reaching to the temprature to a maximum of 700 degrees c

South tower fire lasted 45 mins before collapsing.

Do the math

[Ramooone]

1975 fire lasted 3 hours, hence reaching to the temprature to a maximum of 700 degrees c

South tower fire lasted 45 mins before collapsing.

Do the math

ok:

fire for 3 hours at 700 degree's C, MINUS one 100 ton airplane...

[Pardalis]

1975 fire lasted 3 hours, hence reaching to the temprature to a maximum of 700 degrees c

South tower fire lasted 45 mins before collapsing.

Do the math

YOU'RE FORGETTING A VERY IMPORTANT ELEMENT: TWO 100 STORIES BUILDINGS COLLAPSED RIGHT NEXT TO IT!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pardalis]

YOU'RE FORGETTING A VERY IMPORTANT ELEMENT: TWO 100 STORIES BUILDINGS COLLAPSED RIGHT NEXT TO IT!!!!!!!!!!!

Forget about that, I thought you were talking about WTC7. You are hard to follow...:o

[Pardalis]

http://www.epa.gov/oig/reports/2003/wtc/epapr20011003.htm
http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/press_releases/PR_2002/WTC_health.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,181925,00.html

You said the government had a strangle hold on the media remember? Like Delphi said, don't you have any consitancy in your claims? You are quoting your very own government wich you accuse of misinformation!!!!!!!!:boggled: :boggled: :boggled: :boggled: :boggled:

[brodski]

Like I've mentioned before...the towers' absestos was extremely high and the owner was forced to either remove the abestos or condemn the towers...

Interestly that some of you would bring up the exposure of radiation in the air during the nookular fallout...

Read this...

http://www.epa.gov/oig/reports/2003/wtc/epapr20011003.htm

And yet...

http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/press_releases/PR_2002/WTC_health.html

Buuuut...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,181925,00.html
looks like I award myself 10 points then.

So Goggy, what do you think those links prove? No one here is going to contend that breathing in the dust from pulverized buildings (many containing asbestos) and the ash of thousands of people as well as fumes from burning buildings is going to be healthy.
Are you really contending that faced with a massive asbestos clean up bill someone thought that it would be cheaper to get hold of a small nuclear weapon? and use it to murder thousands of people, covering their tracks by arranging the hijacking of 4 commercial airliners? Just to avoid paying for a contractor to safely remove asbestos from the building?
Can't you see just how ridiculous you sound here smeggy?

[brodski]

You said the government had a strangle hold on the media remember? Like Delphi said, don't you have any consitancy in your claims? You are quoting your very own government wich you accuse of misinformation!!!!!!!!:boggled: :boggled: :boggled: :boggled: :boggled:
but his links don't even mean anything! All they show is that asbestos was present, and that inhaling asbestos fibers, concrete dust and human ash can have negative side effects. There is nothing in those links about radiation, and the symptoms described are nothing like the symptoms of radiation exposure.

[Pardalis]

I think geggy's paranoia has reached the point of no return.

[NobbyNobbs]

Like I've mentioned before...the towers' absestos was extremely high and the owner was forced to either remove the abestos or condemn the towers...

Interestly that some of you would bring up the exposure of radiation in the air during the nookular fallout...

Read this...

http://www.epa.gov/oig/reports/2003/wtc/epapr20011003.htm

And yet...

http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/press_releases/PR_2002/WTC_health.html

Buuuut...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,181925,00.html

Ok, I've read the links. Not once in any of them do the words "radiation" or "nuclear" (which is how to spell it by the way..this "nookular" crap isn't even cute anymore) appear. What was the point of you posting those?

[brodski]

I think geggy's paranoia has reached the point of no return.
when one starts to seriously speculate about people using nuclear weapons to same money on asbestos clean up, then yes, I think one has finally reached the zenith of paranoia.

[Pardalis]

when one starts to seriously speculate about people using nuclear weapons to same money on asbestos clean up, then yes, I think one has finally reached the zenith of paranoia.

Don't forget the Hitler comparisons.;)

I gueess tony fox has experience in lying in front of the camera while he was the fox news anchor. so bush figured he'd be the perfect guy for the press secetary position in order to lie for him. I'm sayin that the bush administration has a stranglehold on the media just as hitler did during the nazi regime. If you'd study the history of the third reich, the parellel of the nazi regime and the current bush regime is far too similiar. Afterall bush's grandfather was hitler's banker. Did you know that the nazis were responsible for the reichstag fire?

That one is still stuck in my throat:mad:

edited to add quote

[brodski]

Don't forget the Hitler comparisons.;)

That one is still stuck in my throat:mad:
I must have missed those, mind you the whole " politician X is the new Hitler" thing gets banded about so much these days, I often just mentally filter it out.

[geggy]

YOU'RE FORGETTING A VERY IMPORTANT ELEMENT: TWO 100 STORIES BUILDINGS COLLAPSED RIGHT NEXT TO IT!!!!!!!!!!!

North tower collapsed because south tower collapsed next to it

Wtc7 collapsed because 2 towers collapsed next to it...

South tower collapsed because...

Uhh..uhhh.uhhh..uhh....wakka wakka hyuck hyuck

[Pardalis]

Uhh..uhhh.uhhh..uhh....wakka wakka hyuck hyuck

Man, you are crazy.:eye-poppi

[Pardalis]

Wtc7 collapsed because 2 towers collapsed next to it...

So are you now admitting the WTC 7 wasn't a controlled demolition?

[kookbreaker]

Don't forget the Hitler comparisons.;)
[/I]

Very odd behavior how he tries to call everyone Hitler and Nazi's while he himself is very determined to blame it all on a jooo.

[brodski]

South tower collapsed because...

IT WAS RAMMED BY A F:eye-poppiKING PASSENGER JET AT FULL SPEED!
Can you show me any skyscraper which has ever survived being hit by a commercial airliner at top speed?
Just one.

[Regnad Kcin]

...Uhh..uhhh.uhhh..uhh....wakka wakka hyuck hyuckSo you don't work for a living then?

[shuize]

When I get around to making my list of the dumbest things I've ever heard before I die, "the government used nuclear weapons on 9/11" will probably have to be near the very top.

[CptColumbo]

IT WAS RAMMED BY A F:eye-poppiKING PASSENGER JET AT FULL SPEED!
Can you show me any skyscraper which has ever survived being hit by a commercial airliner at top speed?
Just one.
The Empire State Building was hit by a military plane, but it was not going at full speed, was not a jet and was smaller than the planes that hit the WTC. Plus the structure of the ESB is different than the WTC.

[Dave_46]

1975 fire lasted 3 hours, hence reaching to the temprature to a maximum of 700 degrees c

South tower fire lasted 45 mins before collapsing.

Do the math

I've said it before, although in this post you didn't use the word intense you have previously, 700 deg C does NOT sound like an intense building fire to me. 700 C is the sort of temperature that might be seen in a building fire as it passes from developing to flashover. A fully flashed over fire is going to be at temperatures in excess of 800 deg C (ie the compartment is full of flames).

Dave

[brodski]

When I get around to making my list of the dumbest things I've ever heard before I die, "the government used nuclear weapons on 9/11" will probably have to be near the very top.
No, its even better,
a private citizen used nuclear weapons on 9/11, because it was too expensive to pay for asbestos removal!
I'm mean thats not just paranoid idiocy, it's paranoid idiocy squared!

[Belz...]

They wouldn't be that large of an explosion. If buried 6 levels down, the blast and flash could be contained, and fallout would be minimal to non-existent (it wouldn't throw it up far enough or fast enough).

Thanks for the info.

I'm still pretty sure, however, that a 1000 ton TNT equivalent would be heard.

[Belz...]

Secondly, NIST reported that 11 columns core were severely damaged in the south tower while only 6 columns core were severed in the north tower. That is impossible because the plane flew right directly toward the center of the north tower.

How does that garantee anything ? As far as I know, a direct, central hit might actually do LESS damage than one hitting the corner.

From my point of view, sept 11 was staged as PSYOP to maximize shock and to juice up the adrenaline/emotional meter to a full scale. I thought the attack in NYC itself was very hollywood style, except for the fact it was real.

Again: those conspirators are idiots if they made it THAT obvious.

The building implosion was also to maximize Silverstein's profit. But that is only from my point of view as i believe the buildings were deliberately imploded.

Indeed. Round and round we go.

[Pardalis]

No, its even better,
a private citizen used nuclear weapons on 9/11, because it was too expensive to pay for asbestos removal!
I'm mean thats not just paranoid idiocy, it's paranoid idiocy squared!

geggy is going to tell us that both theories are true. Both the gov and Silverstein connived this plan. Two idiot conspiracies are better than one. geggy prefers two levels of idiocy over one simple and very probable theory, the official story.

[brodski]

The Empire State Building was hit by a military plane, but it was not going at full speed, was not a jet and was smaller than the planes that hit the WTC. Plus the structure of the ESB is different than the WTC.
exactly, no tall building has ever survived being hit by a commercial airliner at top speed, it seems a perfectly good explanation for the collapse to me, as well as every expert who has ever look into the matter.
I guess I just don't have the intellectual skills of geggy, a fact for which I am very thankful.

[brodski]

geggy is going to tell us that both theories are true. Both the gov and Silverstein connived this plan. Two idiot conspiracies are better than one. geggy prefers two levels of idiocy over one simple and very probable theory, the official story.
paranoid idiocy cubed? ;)

[Belz...]

Secondly, at one point one has to consider motive: if they were going to use explosives to bring down the towers, then why did they crash airplanes into it ? Doesn't that complexify their efforts, considerably ? And if they only used explosives, why would they place demolition charges ? Wouldn't a single bomb do the trick ? They could detonate the bomb and blame a terrorist attack similar to the previous one.

I'd like you to answer that last one.

Still haven't answered this one, Geggy.

[Belz...]

1975 fire lasted 3 hours, hence reaching to the temprature to a maximum of 700 degrees c

South tower fire lasted 45 mins before collapsing.

Do the math

...

Ok... w...

Brain... malfunction. Can't bear... inane... logic.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Yep, the CTers love that because it doesn't show the plane hitting. They ignore the 100+ eyewitnesses who saw a 757 hit. Supposedly at the Moussaoui trial other videos were played that do show the whole thing. Maybe they'll be released some day.

I'd like to ask the CTers if they believe that the Revolutionary War happened. There are no videos or photos from 1776-1782, so where's the proof?

So, what is the best way to show them corroborating evidence to the eyewitness accounts, so they do not just turn around and say that the eyewitness accounts are only anecdotal? That is to say, what is the best/easiest piece of hard evidence to present to them to support the eye witness accounts?

Also, anyone have any good examples showing similar behavior to the security cam (where due to slow film speed important objects are not visible)?

[Pardalis]

paranoid idiocy cubed? ;)

lol

Let's call it Geggy's Razor.

Would anyone care to accurately formulate Geggy's Razor for me?

[brodski]

lol

Let's call it Geggy's Razor.

Would anyone care to accurately formulate Geggy's Razor for me?
"entities should be multiplied far, far beyond necessity, rationality and possibility, all entities should be blamed on Bush."

[juryjone]

1975 fire lasted 3 hours, hence reaching to the temprature to a maximum of 700 degrees c

South tower fire lasted 45 mins before collapsing.

Do the math

No, I don't think so. If I do math like you do, I would come to the conclusion that longer = hotter.

I, however, know that more than one variable exists in this equation. You don't seem to be able to grasp that concept.

[I less than three logic]

Do you all realize this thread is getting an average of just over 41 posts a day since it was started on March 3rd? How do you do it, I mean keep up with this and still keep your sanity? :boggled:

Honestly, it seems like no matter what page I click on I see the same argument over and over. The buildings fell too fast. Look, look did you see that squib? Where’s the full scale recreation to evaluate whether or not planes could do this without the special concrete made from RDX, TNT, thermite, and cement that was used?

It certainly leaves little doubt about the persistence of the inane.

[Pardalis]

How do you do it, I mean keep up with this and still keep your sanity? :boggled:

I keep responding to geggy because I know alot of people are buying into this CT nonsense, especially in Montréal. I decided that I won't stand for it.

BTW, like my new signature aggle-rithm?;)

[JPK]

geggy is going to tell us that both theories are true. Both the gov and Silverstein connived this plan. Two idiot conspiracies are better than one. geggy prefers two levels of idiocy over one simple and very probable theory, the official story.
This should be called Geggy's G.U.T.

JPK

[bob_kark]

Like I've mentioned before...the towers' absestos was extremely high and the owner was forced to either remove the abestos or condemn the towers...

Interestly that some of you would bring up the exposure of radiation in the air during the nookular fallout...

Read this...

http://www.epa.gov/oig/reports/2003/wtc/epapr20011003.htm

And yet...

http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/press_releases/PR_2002/WTC_health.html

Buuuut...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,181925,00.html


Interesting how? Your first link:

Our data show that contaminant levels are low or nonexistent, and are generally confined to the Trade Center site. There is no need for concern among the general public, but residents and business owners should follow recommended procedures for cleaning up homes and businesses if dust has entered.

Your second link:

...

And your third link:

...

Nothing about radiation.

So, again, what explosive causes pools of molten steel days after the explosion?

[geggy]

The power of christ compels you
The power of christ compels you
The power of christ compels you

http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=12058242&src=ActiveBuddy

[Hellbound]

Belz:

Yes, it definately would have been heard.

Another problem with the "briefcase nuke" "theory": it would have had to be in the lower basement levels, but the collapse of the building started at the impact area. A 1kt nuke in the basement would've started a collapse at the bottom, and also would've made the buildings more likely to fall sideways rather than down.

[kookbreaker]

The power of christ compels you
The power of christ compels you
The power of christ compels you

http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=12058242&src=ActiveBuddy

So?

[geggy]

Bobkark...EPA, who the bush administration has a stanglehold of, lied to the ground zero crew and assured to them the air was safe to breath. Get it?

[geggy]

Actually, several witnesses have claimed the bomb went off in the basement of south tower at the same time the north tower was struck. I'll have to find several links to back that up.

[Grounded]

North tower collapsed because south tower collapsed next to it

Wtc7 collapsed because 2 towers collapsed next to it...

South tower collapsed because...

Uhh..uhhh.uhhh..uhh....wakka wakka hyuck hyuck
If a tower collapses because the one beside it fell, why didn't all of New York end up level?

Oh, not all the buildings are towers. My bad....:rolleyes:

[geggy]

blah I meant the other way around.

But I doubt it's true because no one in the FDNY had any reactions during the second attack in the 9/11 documentry filmed by the 2 french cameramen anyway.

[Manny]

So?He's just celebrating his buddy's victory.

[Hellbound]

Actually, several witnesses have claimed the bomb went off in the basement of south tower at the same time the north tower was struck. I'll have to find several links to back that up.

Giggit, you're an idiot.

If a briefcase nuke went off in the basement, it wouldn't have been a few people in the basement who heard it go off (they'd have been killed in the blast and immediate collapse that followed), it would've been people several blocks away who heard it. The collapse would have started at the bottom of the building (the area where the explosion removed support), not at the impact site where the plane hit it. The building would have been even more likely to topple sideways instead of down, and it would NOT have stood for as long as it did after a briefcase nuke went off.

You're contradicting your own evidence that you've continually spouted in this thread...something you seem to do everytime another of your tedious and uninformed theories is shot down in a flaming pile of doggie poo.

If you really care about this, if you really believe this is important, prove it. Right now the only thing you're doing is convincing everyone who reads your mad rantings that the official version of events is true. If you really care, tkae the time and effort to learn what you're talking about. Study physics, study chemistry, study study architecture and engineering, study structural materials and materials science. Look for all the evidence, and compare it against actual science. Don't just pick and choose from conspiracy sites who's sum total of experise consist of the College of "What I can't understand is...", the School of "This guy told me...", the University of "But if...", and the Kindergarten of "If I can't hear you you don't exist!"

[bob_kark]

Bobkark...EPA, who the bush administration has a stanglehold of, lied to the ground zero crew and assured to them the air was safe to breath. Get it?

Read it again:

Both agencies have taken hundreds of samples to monitor environmental conditions since September 11, and have found no evidence of any significant public health hazard to residents, visitors or workers beyond the immediate World Trade Center area.

[Azrael 5]

Blimey a lot of pages here!
Am I missing something here..someone was waiting in the basement with a nuke or demolition charges etc. waiting in case some planes flew into it so they could make it look like a terrorist attack?

Or was it a double conspiracy..planes were used to help the demolition process?
Has anyone mentioned UFO's yet? :D

[aggle-rithm]

I keep responding to geggy because I know alot of people are buying into this CT nonsense, especially in Montréal. I decided that I won't stand for it.

BTW, like my new signature aggle-rithm?;)

Cooool! :)

[aggle-rithm]

If you really care, tkae the time and effort to learn what you're talking about. Study physics, study chemistry, study study architecture and engineering, study structural materials and materials science. Look for all the evidence, and compare it against actual science.

Better yet, geggy, invest in a freakin' dictionary! You clearly don't know the meaning of common words like "debate", "math", and "truth".

[Pardalis]

Actually, several witnesses have claimed the bomb went off in the basement of south tower at the same time the north tower was struck. I'll have to find several links to back that up.

So the explosive device was exactly set to explode when the plane hit? Isn't it more logical to assume that what they heard WAS THE PLANE HITTING AND EXPLODING?

Then again, no, don't answer, I know what you'll say....
:(

[Mongrel]

Actually, several witnesses have claimed the bomb went off in the basement of south tower at the same time the north tower was struck. I'll have to find several links to back that up.


Haven't seen this but I'm willing to bet such phrases as "...Loud noise, like an explosion..." or "...and there was a loud noise, like a bomb going off!"

Really Geggy, people will use phrases like that because it's a really easy way to put across how bloody loud the noise was,
"There was a loud noise"
"How loud?"
"Very loud!"
Doesn't have the same emotional overtones or impact does it?
I'd wonder if explosives experts could tell the difference under similar circumstances, let alone a couple of average bods who work in an office.

[Stellafane]

My 7-year old son just came into the room demanding "What's so funny?" because he heard me laughing out loud at this thread. I see geggy is still running around blindly in his strange little field while all the cattle prods are going ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! It's sick to watch, but it's still far too hilarious to give up just yet.

Actually, all this might serve a more serious purpose than mere morbidly sadistic entertainment. If I ever run into anyone who even begins to hint that 9/11 was anything other than what the official story suggests, I'll point to geggy and ask "Do you really want to be on the same side as this guy?" That should set them straight pretty quick.

Gotta run now...need to decipher my latest instructions from the CIA encoded in the latest issue of My Weekly Reader...

[Mr. Skinny]

looks like I award myself 10 points then.

So Goggy, what do you think those links prove? No one here is going to contend that breathing in the dust from pulverized buildings (many containing asbestos) and the ash of thousands of people as well as fumes from burning buildings is going to be healthy.
Are you really contending that faced with a massive asbestos clean up bill someone thought that it would be cheaper to get hold of a small nuclear weapon? and use it to murder thousands of people, covering their tracks by arranging the hijacking of 4 commercial airliners? Just to avoid paying for a contractor to safely remove asbestos from the building?
Can't you see just how ridiculous you sound here smeggy?
Brodski is spot on here.

Even if the building contained asbestos, where is the proof that the owner was required to clean it up? If the asbestos is non-friable, it is not an inhalation hazard. There is non-friable asbestos in much of the old floor tile you walk on every day, as well as in the mastic used to secure it to the floor. Asbestos is in transite sheeting, and in lots of pipe insulation. As long as the stuff is secure and not flaking off in respirable form, there is generally no cause for asbestos clean up.

If required, professional asbestos clean up crews are considerably cheaper than destroying the WTC. We just had a clean up crew abate some asbestos hazards where I work not two weeks ago, and I recall no discussion about destroying the entire laboratory complex to avoid the cost.

Respirator problems would be expected for clean up workers at the site immediately following the collapse. Believe it or not, geggy, some of those people were trying to find living people in the wreckage, and probably went to work knowing that they didn't have the proper respiratory and other safety equipment.

You are truely unbelieveable, geggy.

[geggy]

Giggit, you're an idiot.

If a briefcase nuke went off in the basement, it wouldn't have been a few people in the basement who heard it go off (they'd have been killed in the blast and immediate collapse that followed), it would've been people several blocks away who heard it. The collapse would have started at the bottom of the building (the area where the explosion removed support), not at the impact site where the plane hit it. The building would have been even more likely to topple sideways instead of down, and it would NOT have stood for as long as it did after a briefcase nuke went off.

You're contradicting your own evidence that you've continually spouted in this thread...something you seem to do everytime another of your tedious and uninformed theories is shot down in a flaming pile of doggie poo.

If you really care about this, if you really believe this is important, prove it. Right now the only thing you're doing is convincing everyone who reads your mad rantings that the official version of events is true. If you really care, tkae the time and effort to learn what you're talking about. Study physics, study chemistry, study study architecture and engineering, study structural materials and materials science. Look for all the evidence, and compare it against actual science. Don't just pick and choose from conspiracy sites who's sum total of experise consist of the College of "What I can't understand is...", the School of "This guy told me...", the University of "But if...", and the Kindergarten of "If I can't hear you you don't exist!"

Heh...even more ad homien, smartass mocken in this thread. It doesn't have any effect on me which is why I'm still posting here. I'm learning and finding more info as I post. Some info relating to sept 11 that I find may be fabricated by desperate fools on both sides, but I don't know well enough about science to tell if it's true or not. Everytime I post something that could possibly be debunked, then you retort to even more insultings and focus on my weakness. True I don't know much about chemistry, engineering, etc. But I'm willing to listen to both sides of theories as to why the buildings fell. I'm more convinced by the controlled demo theory. I've studied on how building implosions work outside the "conspiracy theory" sites to get a better clarity of the imploding of wtc. The physics of the wtc falling is much too similiar to building implosions, straight down and free fall. Hard for me to take anyone here seriously when they throw in insults and stick to their story without even entertaining the idea that the buildings may have been deliberately imploded with explosives. I'm not here to play games as it seems most of you are, I'm just trying to suggest that the commission report and the FEMA/NIST reports is a total fabrication without being labelled a conspiracy theorist. True the building could have fell as the bomb went off in the basement to cut the core columns, but the thing is that wtc towers are extremely sturdy buildings, it would take a stripping and cutting of the entire towers that the blasting in the basement could not have be able to take it down alone. I've seen puffs ejecting at an accelerating speed out of the building as it fell, which characterizes explosive charges that were going off. Why deny it?

Bobkark...and your point is? EPA bs'd about the level of toxins in the air at wtc site. Not even providing respiratory masks to the workers and now thousands are faced with serious health problems and even death. My question is why would they lie about it?

[bob_kark]

Bobkark...and your point is? EPA bs'd about the level of toxins in the air at wtc site. Not even providing respiratory masks to the workers and now thousands are faced with serious health problems and even death. My question is why would they lie about it?

My point is that the EPA study you referenced refers specifically to the area surrounding the immediate World Trade Center area. In other words, it does not include Ground Zero. Secondly, it is the contractor's responsibility to provide their own respiratory masks, not the government's.

I still would like to know what explosive causes pools of molten steel days after the explosion.

ETA: It also specifically states:

Residents and workers returning to buildings where dust from the Trade Center has entered the building should follow proper procedures in cleaning buildings, but the general public should feel very reassured about the extensive environmental monitoring data that has been collected and analyzed. Rescue and recovery crews working on the Trade Center site should take steps to protect themselves from potential exposure to contaminants by using respirators and washing stations as recommended by EPA and OSHA.

[DavidJames]

I'm just trying to suggest that the commission report and the FEMA/NIST reports is a total fabrication without being labelled a conspiracy theorist.My new sig

[Mr. Skinny]

(snip)
Bobkark...and your point is? EPA bs'd about the level of toxins in the air at wtc site. Not even providing respiratory masks to the workers and now thousands are faced with serious health problems and even death. My question is why would they lie about it?
geggy, I thought your links were to prove they lied about asbestos exposure. This was apparently to support your theory that the WTC owner was part of the "conspiracy" so as to avoid asbestos clean up costs?

It was pointed out that your own links say that there were asbestos levels above the safe level in many of the tests taken near the site, but that, as a whole the exposure levels for asbestos away from the immediate site were "safe".

Now you are shifting the goalposts to include all toxins and dusts, etc. (as we pointed out) but are now on a trip about lack of respirators, etc.

What say you to the responses about your "avoiding the asbestos clean up" theory? Do you admit that it's far-fetched?

You can't debate if you just shift to another conjecture or question every time you are cornered.

Edited for spelling.

[Mercutio]

Geggy, your recent posts have convinced me.

Convinced me that you do not, yourself, believe the stuff you are posting here, and are just having fun making skeptics respond to stupidity with patience and diligence. It's like you finally found a person polite enough to open a door for you, so you keep going in and out, secretly snickering at the poor sap who continues to be polite.

Fortunately, these polite and diligent skeptics, as a side effect of entertaining you, have amassed a pile of information certain to convince anyone who is truly interested in seeing the truth. I am certain it has convinced you, for instance. You know, beyond any reasonable doubt, that the points you are arguing for are absurd, and that they have been answered.

I once had a student, in a class debate, paint herself into a corner where she was forced to argue in favor of polio and whooping cough (which she did) instead of retreating from her "good old days" stance (which she would never do). A friend here, when I spoke of it, said that it sounded like this student knew she was further and further out on this limb, had convinced herself that she was wrong, and simply needed to take her own argument to its absurd conclusion to convince herself. Well...you have taken your arguments to absurdity and back again. And I am convinced.

I hope you are enjoying it.

[Gravy]

So the explosive device was exactly set to explode when the plane hit? Isn't it more logical to assume that what they heard WAS THE PLANE HITTING AND EXPLODING?

Then again, no, don't answer, I know what you'll say....
:(

Haven't you heard of super slow-mo controlled demolition by briefcase nuke? (remember, that's 2 briefcase nukes. Hmm, wonder what the seismic data shows...)
They invented controlled demolition that takes an hour so as not to have to invest in expensive high-speed cameras to capture the event. That couldn't be more obvious, silly geese.

[Mr. Skinny]

(snip)Everytime I post something that could possibly be debunked, then you retort to even more insultings and focus on my weakness. True I don't know much about chemistry, engineering, etc. But I'm willing to listen to both sides of theories as to why the buildings fell. (snip)
Geggy, since you admit you don't know much about chemistry, engineering, etc., why do you apparently refuse to listen to those on this forum that do know something about it?

You claim you are willing to listen, but after many, many, pages of information being given to you, you seem unwilling to accept almost everything presented.

I don't get it. Either you are open to facts, or you are putting your fingers in your ears and going "la-la-la, I can't hear you". Which is it?

[Gravy]

Everytime I post something that could possibly be debunked, then you retort to even more insultings and focus on my weakness.
Your weakness, as has been pointed out countless times, is your amazing ability to ignore solid evidence, while being able to provide absolutely no evidence of your own for your nutjob claims. That's our fault?

[chipmunk stew]

Blimey a lot of pages here!
Am I missing something here..someone was waiting in the basement with a nuke or demolition charges etc. waiting in case some planes flew into it so they could make it look like a terrorist attack?

Or was it a double conspiracy..planes were used to help the demolition process?
Has anyone mentioned UFO's yet? :DI think it was two seperate conspiracies. That they happened on the same day within an hour of one another is a mere coincidence.

[Pardalis]

then you retort to even more insultings and focus on my weakness.

I apologize for having insulted you, but your total disrespect for common sense and history is very aggravating.

[Correa Neto]

My Ed...

A Nuke?

What about the EMP... I'm not a specialist, but the concrete at the basement would be enough to hold it?

And the blinding flash of light? Why there are no registers of light escaping through craks?

Where are the people with wounds caused by radiation? Even if decay was fast, folks were working quite close to the site just after the alleged detonation... Not to mention that the plume of smoke, ash and debris, that could be seen in satellite imagery should have scattered radioactive material through a vast area. Heck, if a dentist's office with a X-ray machine happened to be at the plume's path, the radiation controll tags perhaps would have indicated something...

[geggy]

Everything inside the towers were pulverized to fine dusts, including computers that contained lead, flourescent bulbs tghat contained mercury, fire alarms that contained radioactive chemical, etc, etc, and spreaded as far as the dust covered manhattan. EPA report of the dangerous level of toxins in the air were edited by the councils of the white house to make it sound less severe so they can reassure the air was safe to breath and they can get the wall street to reopen ASAP. My apologies I got it mixed up when I said EPA didn't provided masks. It was an actual fact that ground zero crews were not allowed to wear respirators because they thought "it would frighten the public" so says the white house, which is why you didn't see very many of them wearing respirators.

[Gravy]

The physics of the wtc falling is much too similiar to building implosions, straight down and free fall.
Since you know about physics, please provide me with evidence that this is so.

Hard for me to take anyone here seriously when they throw in insults and stick to their story without even entertaining the idea that the buildings may have been deliberately imploded with explosives.
You deserve it for being deliberately ignorant. You've been told again and again that CT sites aren't going to get you closer to th etruth, yet you persist with them. You've been wrong every time, every day. How much more wrong could you be? What should we call you? You're either a foolish troll or an extremely stupid person. Sorry, but that's one thing I can back up with a huge amount of evidence. Can you provide evidence to refute that claim?

I'm not here to play games as it seems most of you are, I'm just trying to suggest that the commission report and the FEMA/NIST reports is a total fabrication without being labelled a conspiracy theorist.
Please provide evidence that they are total fabrications. Do that, and then we'll consider you on the path to rehabilitation.

True the building could have fell as the bomb went off in the basement to cut the core columns, but the thing is that wtc towers are extremely sturdy buildings, it would take a stripping and cutting of the entire towers that the blasting in the basement could not have be able to take it down alone. I've seen puffs ejecting at an accelerating speed out of the building as it fell, which characterizes explosive charges that were going off. Why deny it?
Why deny it? Because all the evidence opposes it, as do all the experts. Name one structural engineer, fire safety engineer, failure analyst or demolitions expert who agrees with you. Give me one name.

[Gravy]

Everything inside the towers were pulverized to fine dusts, including computers that contained lead, flourescent bulbs tghat contained mercury, fire alarms that contained radioactive chemical, etc, etc, and spreaded as far as the dust covered manhattan. EPA report of the dangerous level of toxins in the air were edited by the councils of the white house to make it sound less severe so they can reassure the air was safe to breath and they can get the wall street to reopen ASAP. My apologies I got it mixed up when I said EPA didn't provided masks. It was an actual fact that ground zero crews were not allowed to wear respirators because they thought "it would frighten the public" so says the white house, which is why you didn't see very many of them wearing respirators.
No, not everything was pulverised into dust. Were you ever at Ground Zero when the cleanup was going on?

[Mr. Skinny]

Everything inside the towers were pulverized to fine dusts, including computers that contained lead, flourescent bulbs tghat contained mercury, fire alarms that contained radioactive chemical, etc, etc, and spreaded as far as the dust covered manhattan. EPA report of the dangerous level of toxins in the air were edited by the councils of the white house to make it sound less severe so they can reassure the air was safe to breath and they can get the wall street to reopen ASAP. My apologies I got it mixed up when I said EPA didn't provided masks. It was an actual fact that ground zero crews were not allowed to wear respirators because they thought "it would frighten the public" so says the white house, which is why you didn't see very many of them wearing respirators.
Don't you get tired of hauling those goal posts around, geggy?

Do you admit that Silverstein (sp?) the owner, wasn't trying to avoid an asbestos clean up then? Yes or No please.

And please give your cite for your statement that the " ground zero crews were not allowed to wear respirators.......etc. Sorry, I don't believe you.

[Gravy]

My Ed...

A Nuke?

What about the EMP... I'm not a specialist, but the concrete at the basement would be enough to hold it?

And the blinding flash of light? Why there are no registers of light escaping through craks?

Where are the people with wounds caused by radiation? Even if decay was fast, folks were working quite close to the site just after the alleged detonation... Not to mention that the plume of smoke, ash and debris, that could be seen in satellite imagery should have scattered radioactive material through a vast area. Heck, if a dentist's office with a X-ray machine happened to be at the plume's path, the radiation controll tags perhaps would have indicated something...
It didn't seem to affect people like Willie Rodriguez, who was in the basement, or dozens like him. They got out alive and seem to be living normal lives. You'd think that if they were in the basement when a nuclear device went off, they might have mentioned it. That would really be something to tell the grandkids.

[WildCat]

Fortunately, these polite and diligent skeptics, as a side effect of entertaining you, have amassed a pile of information certain to convince anyone who is truly interested in seeing the truth. I am certain it has convinced you, for instance. You know, beyond any reasonable doubt, that the points you are arguing for are absurd, and that they have been answered.
(snip)
I hope you are enjoying it.
What's that quote about not attributing to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity, or something like that?

[bob_kark]

Everything inside the towers were pulverized to fine dusts, including computers that contained lead, flourescent bulbs tghat contained mercury, fire alarms that contained radioactive chemical, etc, etc, and spreaded as far as the dust covered manhattan. EPA report of the dangerous level of toxins in the air were edited by the councils of the white house to make it sound less severe so they can reassure the air was safe to breath and they can get the wall street to reopen ASAP. My apologies I got it mixed up when I said EPA didn't provided masks. It was an actual fact that ground zero crews were not allowed to wear respirators because they thought "it would frighten the public" so says the white house, which is why you didn't see very many of them wearing respirators.

Do you have any evidence to support any of these claims?

Also, I still would like to know what explosive causes pools of molten steel days after the explosion.

[WildCat]

BTW, anyone else notice that the Flight 93 (http://www.universalpictures.com/forum/index.php?sid=2c8aca81f3cf0cf8882f7569d2bbdef2) forum has been taken down? I bet they didn't expect the onslaught of conspiracy nutcases spamming their board w/ 2000 word cut and paste jobs of quotes and links from a million conspiracy nutter web sites.

[Mr. Skinny]

Do you have any evidence to support any of these claims?

Also, I still would like to know what explosive causes pools of molten steel days after the explosion.
Well, I will give him this, 43. There is mercury in fluorescent light bulbs, and there is Americium in many smoke detectors, probably some lead in computer CRT's as well.

The original discussion was asbestos, however. I'd like to get him to answer that one first.

Ah, shoot, I've already been sucked into his "pose another question" responses, instead of answering the question itself, so hey, I'll play along.......answer bob_karks question too, geggy. Just another one to add to your list of unanswered questions. (Where's Larsen when you need a list made, lol.:) )

[CptColumbo]

No, not everything was pulverised into dust. Were you ever at Ground Zero when the cleanup was going on?
I observed some of the clean-up in March 2002, and they were wearing masks.

[WildCat]

I observed some of the clean-up in March 2002, and they were wearing masks.
That's impossible all debris was shipped to China within 3 hours of the collapse. Do your research!

[Pardalis]

Asbestos is also a mining town in Québec... My god, is there a Québec connection to the conspiracy?:jaw-dropp

:boxedin:

[Pardalis]

Has anyone else seen this 9/11 conspiracy theory "documentary?"

In retrospect, I believe we can most certainly say YES!

[Regnad Kcin]

Judging by the content of his posts, our little friend really isn't here to discuss (never mind debate). This is just a place for him to post links and float questions he has no interest in getting answers for.

I'm getting perilously close to reaching for the kitty pics.

[geggy]

Why deny it? Because all the evidence opposes it, as do all the experts. Name one structural engineer, fire safety engineer, failure analyst or demolitions expert who agrees with you. Give me one name.

Here's a fun 15 mins video for you to look at by MIT engineer Jeff King...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1822764959599063248

Btw you still owe me osama tape.

[geggy]

Mr skinny you might want to google around for links.

I don't think you realize how truly dangerous the bush cronies are. They have no regards for human lives. They have strong lust for power and dollar and they put everything into their interest before anything else. Now I'm going a little off the point here as usual to focus on something I have best knowledge on, just to clarify how dangerous they are. In history tells a story of war and profits invasion and mass control. For the mideast to be invaded by the westerns backed by military might serve the interest corporate greed and global finance. The pnac plan to shape the globe for us economic profits will be widely known. Sept 11 was the pretext. Leaked confessions and documents showed that cheney had pre planned infrastructure developement for a post iraq war and profits showed that halliburton has done very well from the war. Carlyle, the arms provider, has done well too. you could say that if carlyle was involved in corruption supplying the arms for the iraq war the shareholders, bushes and bin Ladens will be guilty of treasons and corruption. Bush invaded iraq to control iraq oil reserves for american big moguls and get as many possible contracts for his benefactors. Meetings were held in the us by large companies planning ways to profit off the oil and the rebuilding of a damaged iraq, iran will be no different only with much more oil to plunder.

Sorry but i got to stop here. To be continued

[Regnad Kcin]

Kitty! (http://hometown.aol.com/ravenuti/kitty03.jpg)

[WildCat]

Here's a fun 15 mins video for you to look at by MIT engineer Jeff King...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1822764959599063248

Btw you still owe me osama tape.
Really? Tell me, what is his current position in the structural engineering dept. at MIT?

Or is he an alumni who graduated from MIT's Electrical Engineering Dept. and abandoned the field in the early 80's to become a medical doctor of some sort (whose medical school info I can't seem to find anywhere...)?

[Dr Adequate]

I don't think you realize how truly dangerous the bush cronies are. They have no regards for human lives. Apart from yours, of course.

They're willing to rub out anyone who tells The Truth --- except for you and your chums, who are free to make movies, make websites, host radio shows, pass out leaflets, hold public demonstrations, and generally tell the whole world that George Bush masterminded 9/11 --- and no-one kills you, no-one silences you, no-one threatens you, no-one even tries to buy you off.

Doesn't that seem just a little bit strange to you? That these people have "no regards for human life", and yet such tender regard for your life, liberty, and freedom of speech?

[rwguinn]

Hey!
You gotta admit the the g-ster is getting edumacated. He has learned what Ad Homen means--sorta.
Unfortunately, he hasn't come to realize that defining a rock as granite is not an attack--it is a statement of fact (if the rock is indeed granite).
Ad as for the comment that geggy knows little of physics and other sciences, that is an unjustified opinion. He has proven that he knows less than nothing. His mind actually contains negative science knowledge.
And gravy:
All buildings fall like controlled demolition under the circumstances. That's the beauty of science. It works the same way, under the same circumstances, every time!

[geggy]

Really? Tell me, what is his current position in the structural engineering dept. at MIT?

Or is he an alumni who graduated from MIT's Electrical Engineering Dept. and abandoned the field in the early 80's to become a medical doctor of some sort (whose medical school info I can't seem to find anywhere...)?

Still attacken the messenger and not the message eh?

[rwguinn]

Still attacken the messenger and not the message eh?

Nope--We'd just like to see some evidence that your sources are familiar with structural analysis and physics in general.
So far you're batting .000

[Dr Adequate]

Still attacken the messenger and not the message eh? GFiven that he is not a structural engineer, and that you are not a structural engineer, on what basis do you judge any part of his message to be true? Can you tell me which bit you think is true, and why, given your lack of expertise and his, you find it persuasive?

[WildCat]

Still attacken the messenger and not the message eh?
Absolutely, when the messenger is pretending to be an expert in a field he is definitely not an expert in.

[Stellafane]

Comrade geggy -- it's time I stop pretending...I've been on your side all along...my previous posts were just to throw the "skeptics" off...to prove it our organization will send you a secret message...look for it on page 6, line 14 of the June issue of the Journal of Prosthetic Dentistry (it's the only publication "they" don't control yet).

POWER TO THE PEOPLE MAN!!!

[NobbyNobbs]

I don't think you realize how truly dangerous the bush cronies are. They have no regards for human lives. They have strong lust for power and dollar and they put everything into their interest before anything else. Now I'm going a little off the point here as usual to focus on something I have best knowledge on, just to clarify how dangerous they are. In history tells a story of war and profits invasion and mass control. For the mideast to be invaded by the westerns backed by military might serve the interest corporate greed and global finance. The pnac plan to shape the globe for us economic profits will be widely known. Sept 11 was the pretext. Leaked confessions and documents showed that cheney had pre planned infrastructure developement for a post iraq war and profits showed that halliburton has done very well from the war. Carlyle, the arms provider, has done well too. you could say that if carlyle was involved in corruption supplying the arms for the iraq war the shareholders, bushes and bin Ladens will be guilty of treasons and corruption. Bush invaded iraq to control iraq oil reserves for american big moguls and get as many possible contracts for his benefactors. Meetings were held in the us by large companies planning ways to profit off the oil and the rebuilding of a damaged iraq, iran will be no different only with much more oil to plunder.



Holy. Freakin'. Cow.

Something just oozed out my ears. At first I thought it was my brain. Upon inspection, it may have been molten steel.

[bob_kark]

Still attacken the messenger and not the message eh?

Would you trust a podiatrist to perform a triple bypass on you?

Why would you trust an ex-electrical engineer to tell you why a building collapsed? Does it not seem odd that not one structural engineer in the world supports your case?

[WildCat]

Comrade geggy -- it's time I stop pretending...I've been on your side all along...my previous posts were just to throw the "skeptics" off...to prove it our organization will send you a secret message...look for it on page 6, line 14 of the June issue of the Journal of Prosthetic Dentistry (it's the only publication "they" don't control yet).

POWER TO THE PEOPLE MAN!!!
YET, but we have a Chertoff to be named later poised to become editor.

[shuize]

Apart from yours, of course.

They're willing to rub out anyone who tells The Truth --- except for you and your chums, who are free to make movies, make websites, host radio shows, pass out leaflets, hold public demonstrations, and generally tell the whole world that George Bush masterminded 9/11 --- and no-one kills you, no-one silences you, no-one threatens you, no-one even tries to buy you off.

Doesn't that seem just a little bit strange to you? That these people have "no regards for human life", and yet such tender regard for your life, liberty, and freedom of speech?
Exactly. This is what makes me think that deep down the CTers really don't believe the bile they're spouting. For geggy, and people of his ilk, it's just a game: "To hell with the memories of the victims, we're special. We've got the 'truth' so let's call for another government investigation -- 'cause, like, everyone knows, man, the 'evil' government that murdered thousands of civilians is going to crack under the weight of our 'evidence' and come clean this time."

[Ramooone]

its getting emotional on the loosers board:

I'm really proud to say I'm a tiny part of this forum. I never thought in my life I'd ever be part of anything like this, I've never voted and have never given any thought to the politics of the government. I don't think I have read a book in over thrity years and in the last few months since I saw LooseChange2 and joined this forum, I must have read thousands of articles. This is all out of character for me, strange how one thing like the LooseChange2 video has affected me. I see things so differently now, the people that really know me are shocked and can't believe this new side of me. I know about corrupt first hand, but mass murder where our government is complicit, I for the first time in my life would like to know the "Truth." I don't care how ugly it is, I really want the Truth of 9/11.

Thanks Datars and Everyone,
LOUIE - Scaffold Rider "

[Pardalis]

Once again, geggy backed into a corner, with his same old unreliable CT sources, his only answer is anti-Bush propaganda.

It's like whenever people have an intelligent conversation about the possibility of life on other planets, some freak comes in and talks about UFO's.

[Pardalis]

quote from LOUIE - Scaffold Rider
"I don't think I have read a book in over thrity years and in the last few months since I saw LooseChange2 and joined this forum, I must have read thousands of articles."

That says alot.

[Manny]

Once again, geggy backed into a corner, with his same old unreliable CT sources, his only answer is anti-Bush propaganda.Heh. Who's gonna break it to him that the people in this thread run about, oh, 99 44/100 to 56/100 against Bush but 100 to zero that he was involved with the 9-11 attacks?

[money]

Heh. Who's gonna break it to him that the people in this thread run about, oh, 99 44/100 to 56/100 against Bush but 100 to zero that he was involved with the 9-11 attacks?


I think you should do it.:)

[DavidJames]

geggy - take a look at the other threads in this forum. Psychics, bigfoot, ghosts, Astrology, Homeopathy, Edgar Cayce, and the 911 CT. Guess what all of them have in common?

tick, tick tick
Ding

None of the claims are substantiated with honest evidence.

You are not alone geggy, should you fall out of favor at Loose Change, you have friends out there. Friends who also believe things and then filter all they see through the cloud of that belief.

[TjW]

Okay, I know I'm late to the dogpile on the suitcase nuke, but don't you think a suitcase nuke would have shown up on the seismometer data?

[hellaeon]

Apart from yours, of course.

They're willing to rub out anyone who tells The Truth --- except for you and your chums, who are free to make movies, make websites, host radio shows, pass out leaflets, hold public demonstrations, and generally tell the whole world that George Bush masterminded 9/11 --- and no-one kills you, no-one silences you, no-one threatens you, no-one even tries to buy you off.

Doesn't that seem just a little bit strange to you? That these people have "no regards for human life", and yet such tender regard for your life, liberty, and freedom of speech?

dont speak such logic! blasphemy....

[hellaeon]

Hey!
Ad as for the comment that geggy knows little of physics and other sciences, that is an unjustified opinion. He has proven that he knows less than nothing. His mind actually contains negative science knowledge.


hahahaha mate, thats pretty funny.

[hellaeon]

Geggy:


I don't think you realize how truly dangerous the bush cronies are. They have no regards for human lives. They have strong lust for power and dollar and they put everything into their interest before anything else. Now I'm going a little off the point here as usual to focus on something I have best knowledge on, just to clarify how dangerous they are. In history tells a story of war and profits invasion and mass control. For the mideast to be invaded by the westerns backed by military might serve the interest corporate greed and global finance. The pnac plan to shape the globe for us economic profits will be widely known. Sept 11 was the pretext. Leaked confessions and documents showed that cheney had pre planned infrastructure developement for a post iraq war and profits showed that halliburton has done very well from the war. Carlyle, the arms provider, has done well too. you could say that if carlyle was involved in corruption supplying the arms for the iraq war the shareholders, bushes and bin Ladens will be guilty of treasons and corruption. Bush invaded iraq to control iraq oil reserves for american big moguls and get as many possible contracts for his benefactors. Meetings were held in the us by large companies planning ways to profit off the oil and the rebuilding of a damaged iraq, iran will be no different only with much more oil to plunder.



I notice you have stumbled across a few obvious displays of possible corruption. Thats common. Trust me, your not unique for seeing that. Everyone does it. The media always report on it - strange considering they are government controlled Trick is, you see it as part of some massive movie style plot. Others just think 'what pr*cks'.

At the end of the day, as romantic as this sounds for a conspiracy its just conjecture. You must remember that. Remember they went to iraq to get the WMD's. That US government is so sloppy, that in the effort to try and hide the trooth of 9/11 they forgot to plant a WMD in iraq! Fools!

[Pardalis]

Once you get caught in the paranoid mechanism, it's difficult to get out of it. It's a mechanism that will only push you further into psychosis. For your own good geggy, don't go back to these CT sites and concentrate on what's important, your life, your daughter.

You have plenty of reasons to dislike the Bush administration, you are absolutely intitled to your opinion. Nobody is going to keep that right away from you, not even the government itself. But don't combine political opinion with belief in an alternate reality. It's a bad mix, a drug that will only do you harm.

Have you read any of what I said geggy? Judging by your recent posts,obviousl you haven't considered my warnings.

Let me try again, because I'm also starting to think that you are reaching out to us, in some unconscious way. I’m URGING YOU, what you are doing is very dangerous. To have an opinion on your government’s politics is one thing, but you mixing it up with paranoia is another. Keeping an open eye on things is a good reflex, dirty dealings and conniving do happen, especially in politics. That’s what we call having a critical mind. But this as gone way beyond crititical thinking or even partisan affiliation. The Truth movement is insidiously practicing the mind to think in paranoid terms, to doubt everything and to even challenge logic itself. When you toss logic and your own ability to reason aside, paranoia fills in the void and starts running your life. You will see patterns of deceipt everywhere, it will cloud your judgment and make you do things you never would have done. The mind is a very dangerous think to mess with.

The human brain isn't a gift from nature to be taken for granted, it's a responsability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_propaganda

Propaganda comes in many shapes and sizes. It’s not just an institutionalised creation. You’re so focused on the Big Brother from the White House that you don’t see that you are being manipulated by another type of tyranny, the FEAR that things might not be what they seem. Slowly the IDEA becomes the charismatic leader of a new kind of cult, the search for the Truth. The CTs unwillingness to look at real evidence, to dismiss basic logic, to me, sounds a hell of a lot like what people in cults do. And face it, you do show all the signs. CTs always say “Wake up” or “ Open your Eyes.”, as if only you allowed yourself to believe you would see the Truth. Actually, that’s what paranoia does, it lets you see things that are not there.

I encourage you to think for yourself. Investigate by looking at DIFFERENT SOURCES. Don’t let your internal fears and political beliefs influence your assertion of the data you collect. You definately distrust your government, so you got their propaganda in check... that’s good. But now apply that same technique to your CT friends. Be your own person, let yourself decide. Don’t believe, THINK!

[OMGturt1es]

i love you all. this thread is like eyeball sex.

thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you.

but yeah, slow down a bit, eh? i'm finally at page 33... ;)

[brodski]

Okay, I know I'm late to the dogpile on the suitcase nuke, but don't you think a suitcase nuke would have shown up on the seismometer data?
Don’t be silly, it was a magic nuke, which doesn't kill all the people who are in the immediate vicinity when it goes off, produces no radiation and makes buildings collapse from near the top down, even though it is placed in the basement. It also produces severe aeroplane related hallucinations. These magic nukes are also readily available and cheaper than paying for asbestos removal. It all makes sense when you think about it…

[geggy]

[QUOTE=Pardalis;1616673]Have you read any of what I said geggy? Judging by your recent posts,obviousl you haven't considered my warnings.

Let me try again, because I'm also starting to think that you are reaching out to us, in some unconscious way. I

[Belz...]

The power of christ compels you
The power of christ compels you
The power of christ compels you

That's it. I think his mind broke.

[chipmunk stew]

to prove it our organization will send you a secret message...look for it on page 6, line 14 of the June issue of the Journal of Prosthetic Dentistry (it's the only publication "they" don't control yet).
I knew it! As soon as I learned that Judy Wood, that oft-referenced professor of billiard ball physics, was a specialist in the material properties of human teeth, I suspected that JPD was a covert mouthpiece for the Rebellion.

[Gravy]

Don’t be silly, it was a magic nuke...It also produces severe aeroplane related hallucinations.

That would explain these quotes from "No-planer" Jimmy Walters' website:
What about all the witnesses? We have never found any reliable witnesses to these alleged big passenger jets. We find people who saw "something", who were home in bed with the drapes drawn and still "saw the plane" they think, because they heard the explosion…

We caution everyone that false-memories are easily planted about what people think they should have seen. Also, the mind is a computer that interprets signals from the eyes.

[chipmunk stew]

quote from LOUIE - Scaffold Rider
"I don't think I have read a book in over thrity years and in the last few months since I saw LooseChange2 and joined this forum, I must have read thousands of articles."

That says alot.As does: "I see things so differently now, the people that really know me are shocked and can't believe this new side of me."

[Gravy]

[QUOTE=Pardalis;1616673]Have you read any of what I said geggy? Judging by your recent posts,obviousl you haven't considered my warnings.

Let me try again, because I'm also starting to think that you are reaching out to us, in some unconscious way. I
I suppose he'll come back and edit this, but wouldn't it be cool if that's his last post?
Geggy, that is, not Pardalis.

[Belz...]

Bobkark...EPA, who the bush administration has a stanglehold of, lied to the ground zero crew and assured to them the air was safe to breath. Get it?

Would you mind providing evidence for this claim ?

Actually, several witnesses have claimed the bomb went off in the basement of south tower at the same time the north tower was struck.

Well, gee. I'd think a jet flying into a building would make quite a BANG indeed.

Some info relating to sept 11 that I find may be fabricated by desperate fools on both sides, but I don't know well enough about science to tell if it's true or not.

And yet you persist in claiming that it IS ? I'm more and more convinced that you don't yeally believe those things you say, here.

But I'm willing to listen to both sides of theories as to why the buildings fell. I'm more convinced by the controlled demo theory.

You're not MORE convinced, you're convinced. But you don't even know why.

The physics of the wtc falling is much too similiar to building implosions, straight down and free fall.

First, for your information, controlled demos aren't free fall. Otherwise they wouldn't be controlled.

Second, I repeat: do you have any examples of scryscrapers that fell in a non-controlled fashion ? If not, how could you DAMN tell the difference ?

I'm just trying to suggest that the commission report and the FEMA/NIST reports is a total fabrication without being labelled a conspiracy theorist.

Well you are theorising about a conspiracy.

True the building could have fell as the bomb went off in the basement to cut the core columns, but the thing is that wtc towers are extremely sturdy buildings, it would take a stripping and cutting of the entire towers that the blasting in the basement could not have be able to take it down alone.

So no explosives ?

I've seen puffs ejecting at an accelerating speed out of the building as it fell,

Are you backtracking on your previous sentence ? Cause this doesn't follow.

And how could you POSSIBLY see the acceleration of puffs of smoke ?

which characterizes explosive charges that were going off. Why deny it?

Because you're wrong. Remember my example ?

Floor X+1 --------------
Office space
Floor X --------------

You'd expect SOME acceleration when X+1 comes crashing down on X.

[chipmunk stew]

Have you read any of what I said geggy? Judging by your recent posts,obviousl you haven't considered my warnings.

Let me try again, because I'm also starting to think that you are reaching out to us, in some unconscious way. IWhoa. Geggy, if this was posted in error, consider the possibility that this was a subconscious gesture to yourself. A spark of truth trying to break through.

[Belz...]

I don't think you realize how truly dangerous the bush cronies are. They have no regards for human lives.

Are we still debating facts, here ?

Oh, wait. You were never debating facts.

They have strong lust for power and dollar and they put everything into their interest before anything else.

Of course. They're the government. But then, that doesn't prove anything, does it ?

In history tells a story of war and profits invasion and mass control.

Damn. Those goalposts are moving faster than a [insert joke here]. Care to adress ANY of the points raised in the last three PAGES, Geggy ?

[WildCat]

Have you read any of what I said geggy? Judging by your recent posts,obviousl you haven't considered my warnings.

Let me try again, because I'm also starting to think that you are reaching out to us, in some unconscious way. I
Uh-oh, "they" have finally tracked down geggy and made him disappear... and in mid-post too! :eek:

[geggy]

oops let me fix that other post by starting a new post

i find it twistedly funny that you would associate sept 11 activists with the ufo conspiracy theorsts. I didnt think you would stoop that low. Tell me again, what did UFO have to do with sept 11? I'm really interested in hearing your theories.

Yeah I'm antibush. Any sane person would see that the malevolent activities that he partipicates himself into is against the humanity and i think I've had enough of it. Can you really blame me for it?

I'm curious on what you think of the catapulting of the propaganda on television across the entire NYC region during the months after the sept 11 catastrophe. It wasn't a year until after the catalyzing event that I contacted a friend from NYC and she explained to me that the repeated images of the plane crashing, towers falling were still being shown on television at the time whereas in my home state it was forbidden to show images of sept 11 on television. How do you explain that?

[geggy]

I aplogize for the error. Sometime the internet provider on my tmobile sidekick can get screwy. I think I'mn being spied on. Not being paranoid, I have nothing to hide. Theyre the ones who are being paranoid. heh

[Stellafane]

I knew it! As soon as I learned that Judy Wood, that oft-referenced professor of billiard ball physics, was a specialist in the material properties of human teeth, I suspected that JPD was a covert mouthpiece for the Rebellion.

Like everything else in CT Land, it all makes sense when you think about it long enough -- the Journal of Prosthetic Dentistry as a "mouthpiece."

[Mongrel]

I think I'mn being spied on. Not being paranoid,

You really ought to look that word up Geggy...Here's a handy link (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=paranoia)

[Mojo]

i find it twistedly funny that you would associate sept 11 activists with the ufo conspiracy theorsts. I didnt think you would stoop that low. Tell me again, what did UFO have to do with sept 11? I'm really interested in hearing your theories. I doubt that any of the sceptics on the forum think UFOs have anything to do with 11th September.

I have no doubt that you could make the connection if you really tried, though.

[NobbyNobbs]

Tell me again, what did UFO have to do with sept 11? I'm really interested in hearing your theories.

Nobody is suggesting that UFOs had anything to do with 9/11. What they are saying is that the thought processes you are going through are similar to those that the UFO conspirasists go through.

Yeah I'm antibush. Any sane person would see that the malevolent activities that he partipicates himself into is against the humanity and i think I've had enough of it. Can you really blame me for it?

No, I can't blame you. I'm not very fond of the guy myself. But that doesn't make him responsible for 9/11. I'm not fond of my neighbor, either, but that doesn't imply he was involved as well. Proof is needed.

I'm curious on what you think of the catapulting of the propaganda on television across the entire NYC region during the months after the sept 11 catastrophe. It wasn't a year until after the catalyzing event that I contacted a friend from NYC and she explained to me that the repeated images of the plane crashing, towers falling were still being shown on television at the time whereas in my home state it was forbidden to show images of sept 11 on television. How do you explain that?

"Forbidden"?? What state do you live in? How do you know it was forbidden? That's a direct violation of the consititution, and I'm surprised there wasn't a lawsuit. Can you provide articles or editorials concerning this injunction? I'd be very interested in seeing them.

[Ersby]

It wasn't a year until after the catalyzing event that I contacted a friend from NYC and she explained to me that the repeated images of the plane crashing, towers falling were still being shown on television at the time whereas in my home state it was forbidden to show images of sept 11 on television. How do you explain that?
It's clearly a result of meddling by the CIA.

[Stellafane]

I doubt that any of the sceptics on the forum think UFOs have anything to do with 11th September.

I have no doubt that you could make the connection if you really tried, though.

Already been done: http://www.orbwar.com/ufo-photos-wtc-attack-9-11.htm

[kookbreaker]

What state do you live in?

Must...resist....easy....joke!!

[Gravy]

Nobody is suggesting that UFOs had anything to do with 9/11.
I do think that UFO involvement is every bit as plausible as anything geggy has suggested.
"Forbidden"?? What state do you live in? How do you know it was forbidden?
For its residents' protection, many things that are available to you and I are forbidden in the state of Fear, Confusion, and Misapprehension.

[Shrinker]

i find it twistedly funny that you would associate sept 11 activists with the ufo conspiracy theorsts. I didnt think you would stoop that low. Tell me again, what did UFO have to do with sept 11? I'm really interested in hearing your theories.
Okay eggy, if 911 cranks really are different from UFO cranks then there's no way we can use the UFO example to predict what will happen to the whole 911 "truth" movement is there? So if we come back in a few decades we'll see that I got all of the following wrong...

The 911 truth movement will never reach a consensus about what happened on 911, simply because all their 'evidence' and anyalses are so obviously mutually exclusive, yet few of them have the backbone to criticize any 'evidence' which appears to implicate the Conspirators.

After being unable to formulate a consistent theory the 911 truth movement will become bitterly fragmented with public disputes between various competing theorists appearing all over the internet.

One or more individuals will come to light who claim to have insider knowledge of the plot or where somehow directly involved in it. They will of course be able to provide no convincing evidence of this. Supporters will claim its because the evidence is being erased.

There will be a number of breakthroughs which will turn out to be hoaxes. But when the number of hoaxes becomes high enough, theorists will begin to claim that they can't all be hoaxes.

More books will be written, more 'documentaries' assembled, more money will be made. Yet no living person will be directly and unambigiously accused, let alone brought to trial.

The 911 conspiracy will seep further and further into popular culture but yet be taken less and less seriously, and not make the slightest bit of difference.

As more real information emerges, the theories will become even more desperately convoluted, to the point that no serious 'truth seeker' believes the silly theories that were knocking around back in 2006

911 theorists will reach old age and die, having unearthed nothing of any value, or even gotten into trouble with the law.

[Dr Adequate]

It wasn't a year until after the catalyzing event that I contacted a friend from NYC and she explained to me that the repeated images of the plane crashing, towers falling were still being shown on television at the time whereas in my home state it was forbidden to show images of sept 11 on television. How do you explain that? How do YOU explain that, geggy?

You seem to be alleging that, in your state, the conspiracy was using its sinister powers to suppress its own propaganda. Why?

[aggle-rithm]

Still attacken the messenger and not the message eh?

There's a message? Will you be sharing it with us at some point?

[Hellbound]

There's a message? Will you be sharing it with us at some point?

He already has, you just have to use your "Secret DeKoder RingTM". Check this week's Captain Crunch.

ETA:

By the way, gigger, that wasn't Ad Hominem. Ad Hominem is not a fancy-shmansy word for insults. Ad Hominem is specifically claiming the argument is wrong because the person making it is an idiot/liar/ugly/smells funny/whatever.

My argument is that you're an idiot because your argument is wrong. Spectacularly wrong. Astoundingly wrong. So wrong, the word wrong doesn't even begin to describe how wrong it is. We need a new word to describe something as wrong as your arguments...geggerious.

My comments were a conclusion based on evidence, not an argument against your "theory".

Although, it isn't even a theory, as it's internally inconsistent and disconnected. More of a hypothetical amalgam.

[60hzxtl]

Conspiracy?

The great thing about chasing shadows, pookas, and imaginary bad guys, (and big foot)! is that you never catch them - you chase and chase, and never catch 'em. Unlike real bad guys.


All this time on spent on "squibs" "controlled demo" and we haven't even scratched the rest of the loose changers idiotic conclusions.


(Like what direction does the sun come up in Dylan Avery? Pod? ok- its a pod, now where is the engine shadow? First rule of film making - where is the light coming from kids?)

[aggle-rithm]

Tell me again, what did UFO have to do with sept 11? I'm really interested in hearing your theories.


Wackos believe in UFO's. Wackos also believe in 9/11 conspiracies. (Not the same wackos, necessarily, but wackos nevertheless. ) Why do we call them wackos, you ask? Because neither have any substantial basis for their beliefs. The only difference between them and a crazy man talking to himself on the street corner is that they are able to mask their delusions with a facade of "scholarship" and "research".

[60hzxtl]

Aggle - its harder and harder to find the crazy guy on the corner talking to himself - sometimes it REALLY is a cell phone.

The conversation is the same, but there IS somebody on the other end.

[aggle-rithm]

It wasn't a year until after the catalyzing event that I contacted a friend from NYC and she explained to me that the repeated images of the plane crashing, towers falling were still being shown on television at the time whereas in my home state it was forbidden to show images of sept 11 on television. How do you explain that?

Here are my explanations:

"It wasn't a year until after the catalyzing event that I contacted a friend from NYC"

Explanation: You're not a very good friend. It took you a YEAR to contact this person after 9/11?


"repeated images of the plane crashing, towers falling were still being shown on television at the time"

Explanation: Slow news days.
Alternate explanation: Cutbacks at the NYC TV stations, so old footage is recycled.
Alternate explanation: Competition for ratings.

Pick one.


"whereas in my home state it was forbidden to show images of sept 11 on television."

Explanation: You are mistaken about the images being forbidden. It's a YEAR OLD NEWS STORY, for heavens sake. Why would they still be showing it?

Alternate explanation: You are mistaken about the images being forbidden. You haven't seen it because you don't watch the news, since George Bush has a stranglehold on the media.

Now, how do YOU explain why any of this is relevant?

[aggle-rithm]

Aggle - its harder and harder to find the crazy guy on the corner talking to himself - sometimes it REALLY is a cell phone.

The conversation is the same, but there IS somebody on the other end.

Well, if he's wearing a shoe on his head, that's a dead giveaway.

ETA: I mean no disrespect to the mentally ill. They can't help the way they are. However, geggy and his ilk are being willfully insane. They can back away from the precipice whenever they choose.

[Hellbound]

Here are my explanations:

"It wasn't a year until after the catalyzing event that I contacted a friend from NYC"

Explanation: You're not a very good friend. It took you a YEAR to contact this person after 9/11?


"repeated images of the plane crashing, towers falling were still being shown on television at the time"

Explanation: Slow news days.
Alternate explanation: Cutbacks at the NYC TV stations, so old footage is recycled.
Alternate explanation: Competition for ratings.

Pick one.


"whereas in my home state it was forbidden to show images of sept 11 on television."

Explanation: You are mistaken about the images being forbidden. It's a YEAR OLD NEWS STORY, for heavens sake. Why would they still be showing it?

Alternate explanation: You are mistaken about the images being forbidden. You haven't seen it because you don't watch the news, since George Bush has a stranglehold on the media.

Now, how do YOU explain why any of this is relevant?

You missed an explanation, aggle. It was a year after the event.

One year later.

I don't think there was a single network that didn't have some type of memorial show on the anniversary date, and you would expect a LOT more of this in New York. And, likely, some networks may have made the decision not to broadcast the more disturbing scenes from that day, leading to gledgy's "banned from showing footage" comments.

It's geggerious.

[Belz...]

Yeah I'm antibush. Any sane person would see that the malevolent activities that he partipicates himself into is against the humanity and i think I've had enough of it.

You claim to be a sane person, but then you claim that Bush is anti-humanity. Paranoia is not sane, Geggy.

I'm curious on what you think of the catapulting of the propaganda on television across the entire NYC region during the months after the sept 11 catastrophe. It wasn't a year until after the catalyzing event that I contacted a friend from NYC and she explained to me that the repeated images of the plane crashing, towers falling were still being shown on television at the time whereas in my home state it was forbidden to show images of sept 11 on television. How do you explain that?

No, how do YOU explain that ?

[Belz...]

I aplogize for the error. Sometime the internet provider on my tmobile sidekick can get screwy. I think I'mn being spied on. Not being paranoid, I have nothing to hide. Theyre the ones who are being paranoid. heh

Geggy, let me state this clearly.

IF THE GOVERNMENT WAS HALF AS BAD AS YOU SAY IT IS, YOU'D BE DEAD BY NOW.

Sorry for the shouting.

[geggy]

Belz...
Take a look...
http://Www.geocities.com/iseepee57/wtc3.jpg
http://Www.geocities.com/iseepee57/wtc4.jpg
http://Www.geocities.com/iseepee57/wtc5.jpg
http://Www.geocities.com/iseepee57/wtc6.jpg
Http://Www.geocities.com/iseepee57/wtc7.jpg
http://Www.geocities.com/iseepee57/wtc8.jpg
http://Www.geocities.com/iseepee57/wtc9.jpg
You can clearly see the squibs ejecting. The ejection of the second squib in the picture is far below the collapsing area of the tower. In an event of controlled demo, squibs eject out of buildings at the same time to allow the building to free fall. Squibs ejected out of the wtc tower and the top followed through. The tower couldn't have possibly came down without stripping and cutting of the core to weaken the structure of the building unless explosives were preplanted. I'd have my doubt if puff of smoke ejected of every floor as if the pancaking theory was true. But the problem is here in this picture...

http://www.911wasalie.com/phpwebsite/images/photoalbum/5/wtc_small_1056.jpg

In the area of the puff of smoke ejection did not appear to be damaged. There were no signs of trusses giving away, otherwise the cracks of the concrete of the tower would be clearly visible. So what exactly do you think caused the ejecting of the puff of smoke?

The only logical explanation for this is that squibs were making a clean cut through the concrete of the towers.

[Hellbound]

geggy:

Those are not squibs, no matter how much you want them to be.

Those are most likely the result of air pressure, as the collapsing upper floors are pushing dust and air downward, increasing the pressure to the point that it blows out some windows.

Besides, the support is in the cneter of the building...why would you expect to see squibs outside? And why would they only be in the center of each side of the building?

Your argument is getting geggerious again.

Have any evidence?

[Manny]

Besides, the support is in the cneter of the building...why would you expect to see squibs outside? And why would they only be in the center of each side of the building?
Relatedly, there were no vertical concrete structures in the World Trade Center. Only the floors themselves were concrete. Any explosive charge set to demolish them would be expected to expel its ejecta up or down (depending on whether it's set above or below the structure), not out.

[60hzxtl]

The only logical explanation for this is that squibs were making a clean cut through the concrete of the towers.[/QUOTE]


All floors in the WTC were not equal. Some were machinery (ac, water pumps, compressors, etc.) some were office space. Some were full of stoff, and some were vacant.

That puff is the path of least resistance -

And what is an "explosion" anyway? The puff YOU see in your "squib" is just a push of matter away from a released compression of air - it doesn't matter if it goes 'boom' or pfffft - its still the compression of air.

[Orb]

I thought a squib was a pretend bomb used in the movies?

[60hzxtl]

I thought a squib was a pretend bomb used in the movies?



Yup - and the LC'ers are full of pretend stuff if you listen to their soundtracks - The entire thing is so laughably bad. Making me want to take it and re-narrate it, or narrate over it. Since there is very little footage that belongs to these kids, its all purchased from the original sources, it would be a very doable thing.

Me? I'd rather go after the real bad guys than chase shadows. LC's may not be charging for the film, but there is a pile $$$$$ to be made in speaking fees, and expenses. Not a bad living.

If they really believed that the country was as lost as they say, there is nothing to stop them from leaving - the door swing both ways.

Ask Roman Polanski

[kookbreaker]

Belz...
In the area of the puff of smoke ejection did not appear to be damaged.


But the building was already falling, so what was the point of setting off a lonely charge a few floors below the collapse?

[WildCat]

But the building was already falling, so what was the point of setting off a lonely charge a few floors below the collapse?
Exactly, in every single controlled demolition the "squibs" go off before the building starts to collapse. But for WTC 1, 2, and 7 no squibs appear until after the buildings start to collapse. Because, of course, they're not squibs at all but the result of floors pancaking and expelling debris due to air pressure.

[Gravy]

Belz...
Take a look...
Oh, geggy,you couldn't have picked a better example of what is NOT an explosion. Again, you act as though you're dealing with people as stupid as you are.

Have you seen the video of that "squib?" No, you haven't, you just post stills from the internet, just like with the bin Laden "confession" tape. You absolutely refuse to do your homework, despite getting dragged behind the woodshed EVERY DAY FOR IT.

How many days in a row is that?

Will you go back and show us the last time you used an example to prove a point and it was correct? That's a serious question, geggy.

YOU'VE MADE 120+ POSTS. HAVE YOU BEEN RIGHT ONCE ABOUT A SINGLE POINT OF FACT?

SHOW US AN EXAMPLE.

[Regnad Kcin]

geggy, I was wondering...

What do you do for a living?

[Gravy]

I'm going to repeat myself, because I want geggy to get the point and I'm not sure he can read more than a few sentences without frying his neurons.

geggy, please show us ONE example that you've used as evidence to support your conspiracy theory that has been correct.

And if you've made over 120 posts and not gotten anything right, what does that tell you?

[DavidJames]

geggy, I was wondering...

What do you do for a living?and assuming you do have a job......are you required to make decisions based on logic and facts or can you just make crap up like you do here?

[Gravy]

geggy, I was wondering...

What do you do for a living?
How do you think "factory seconds" get made?

[pgwenthold]

So I don't know a lot about controlled demolitions. I was wondering, could one of those who think the pictures above are indicative of a controlled demolition show me a picture of a known controlled demolition that looks the same?

I know you aren't building demolitions experts, so I would assume that you have pictures and video of controlled demolitions that you have compared to the WTC towers falling and seen comparable features. I mean, how else could you justify using these pictures to claim that "it looks like a controlled demolition" if you haven't documented similar effects in known controlled demolitions?

[chipmunk stew]

- Ø®£Z - at the Loose Change forum][/COLOR]If any administrators remove this thread, that is a sure sign that Loose Change, and this forum are nothing more than an intelligence disinformation operation.

There is no profanity, nudity or illegal material contained in this post; therefor, there is no credible reason for its removal, should an administrator "decide" to remove this thread.

The real Osama, not the altered, disinformation version from Loose Change 2E.
http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/1396/realosama2fb.jpg



A real picture of the damage at the Pentagon from Flight 77 -- the 757 that crashed there.
http://img308.imageshack.us/img308/3176/pentagontext4hz.jpg





(22:03) "Why is the damage to the Pentagon completely inconsistent with a Boeing 757"
http://img308.imageshack.us/img308/6686/screenshot73qa.jpg


It isn't. The damage is, in fact, completely consistent with a Boeing 757 having hit the Pentagon.

But the fact that the makers of LC2E chose to use a picture that has a lot of smoke, fire retardent foam and a firetruck spraying two solid streams of water across and into the building in the foreground, obscuring and hiding the impact zones in the background, it isn't any wonder why people would think that there isn't much damage.


I believe that 9/11 was an inside job. However, disinformation laden 9/11 videos like Loose Change -- first and second editions -- only serve to undermine the factual evidence of 9/11 having been an inside job.

Those above two pics that I wrote the text on, are only two quick examples of Loose Change 2E disinformation. There are easily 100 more examples, easily.

Since I'm a member of this forum now, I'll need to completely dismantle the lies, disinformation, misinformation, and already thoroughly debunked hoaxes that are contained in Loose Change 2E.

If the site administrators remove this thread, Loose Change, and thsi forum are part of a continuing intelligence disinformation operation.


I challenge you [the site] to prove me wrong.
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3526&view=findpost&p=4110708

It will be fun to see how they handle this.

[WildCat]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3526&view=findpost&p=4110708

It will be fun to see how they handle this.
ROFLMAO!

Good one, CS, or whoever posted that! :D

[Gravy]

In the thread about my "LC" critique, I saw that TheQuest, one of the dumbest of them all said he was willing to "concede" the Pentagon. Boy, Rumsfeld will be glad to have it back!

[Gravy]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3526&view=findpost&p=4110708

It will be fun to see how they handle this.
Suicide by screenshot!

[CptColumbo]

In regards to the relationship of the Chertoffs a person at this thread:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=682

writes:
His mother says so, according to Alex Jones.. lol

"Benjamin's mother in Pelham, New York, however, was more willing to talk. Asked if Benjamin was related to the new Secretary of Homeland Security, Judy said, Yes, of course, he is a cousin.' "

I e-mailed Benjamin Chertoff again to get a comment, his reply:

Thank you for not disclosing my e-mail address.

No, I'm not related to Michael Chertoff. In fact, the first time I'd ever heard of him was when he was nominated as head of homeland security -- at least a week after we'd gone to press with the story (magazines are "long
lead," meaning we close an issue months before its publish date).

My name isn't very common, so, last year, it was an honest answer to say Ididn't know whether I was related when asked -- and I said that to a "reporter" who'd called my direct line, without any introduction to let me know he was going to do anything with the conversation.

As for my mother, that quote is patently absurd. She was contact by someone who called himself "chris," and never identified himself as a reporter. And her answer -- at least what she swears she said -- was "he might be a cousin." Neither she nor I knew -- in the end, after trying to find any
relation to Mike Chertoff, I've come up empty handed. But, again, I can tell you this with certainty: I've never met him, nor have I had any contact with him. Ever. And the same goes for me extended family. I have about as much of a relationship with Michael Chertoff as Old McDonald has
with Ronald.

(And for the record, I can only assume you're brothers with Peter Falk.)

I'd recommend would be conspiracy theorists contact Michael Chertoff's office if they want to investigate a nonexistent relationship -- I imagine he has much more detailed files on this sort of stuff than I do.

And, either way, as you said -- the facts in the story are easily verifiable, AND I was only one of 9 reporters working on the story.

Facts are facts, no matter how much people dislike them.

B

I'll try to get a hold of Michael Chertoff, but I think that might take awhile.

[Kevin_Lowe]

It will be fun to see how they handle this.

They moved the thread into the "lounge" area, out of the 9/11 discussion area.

;)

Really, other kooks do a better job of making the Loosers look ridiculous than we do. They put real effort into making equally spurious graphics and arguments. There's no better illustration of just how confused and silly the 9/11 CT community is.

[Pardalis]

They moved the thread into the "lounge" area, out of the 9/11 discussion area.

Wow, Kevin Lowe is in this forum!:)

The CTs really don't want a debate, let alone the Truth, they only want to masterbate to their ideas.

And geggy, please respond to my previous post. The first step into recovering from mind manipulation is acknowledging that you have a problem.

[Ramooone]

geggy when you make statements like:

I don't think you realize how truly dangerous the bush cronies are. They have no regards for human lives.

it really makes me wonder. now, i'm no fan of the bush administration and im sure mot of the people on this board aren't but you are too quick to assume that because he is a prick he must have planned 9/11

i got a counter-proposal for you geggy. If the bush cronies are so evil and this government is really keeping you down i'm sure you can get some cheap real estate in darfur. go live there for a week and complain to the locals about how bad our government is, i'm sure they'll feel your pain.

[Belz...]

Belz...
Take a look...

You can clearly see the squibs ejecting.

I don't know if you've ever seen a controlled demo, but they don't blow small, isolated charges like the one you claim this is. They do it in waves. BEFORE The collapse.

Isn't it likely that something on that particular floor gave way and ejected air to the outside ? After all, the building WAS already collapsing at that point, as we can see in the picture.

The ejection of the second squib in the picture is far below the collapsing area of the tower.

"Far" below ?

In an event of controlled demo, squibs eject out of buildings at the same time to allow the building to free fall.

Perhaps someone can correct me on this, but I don't think I'd want a controlled demo to reach free fall. Otherwise how do you control the demo ??

Squibs ejected out of the wtc tower and the top followed through. The tower couldn't have possibly came down without stripping and cutting of the core to weaken the structure of the building unless explosives were preplanted.

Exactly, which PRECLUDES your theory, because someone would have noticed the operation.

In the area of the puff of smoke ejection did not appear to be damaged. There were no signs of trusses giving away, otherwise the cracks of the concrete of the tower would be clearly visible.

From THAT distance ? You gotta be kidding.

The only logical explanation for this is that squibs were making a clean cut through the concrete of the towers.

I think you want to freshen up on your logic courses.

ETA: Spelling.

[kookbreaker]

In regards to the relationship of the Chertoffs a person at this thread:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=682

writes:


I e-mailed Benjamin Chertoff again to get a comment, his reply:



I'll try to get a hold of Michael Chertoff, but I think that might take awhile.

Interesting stuff, and another 911 CT myth goes down the drain.

I can sympathize with Chertoff, my own last name isn't very common and it is quite argueable that everyone in the US with my last name is a 'cousin'. The question is: how many times removed? In many cases the relationship splits back in the early 18th century. But my Dad still kids with a fellow in the same city with the same last name from the other family by calling him 'cuz' and such.

[chipmunk stew]

ROFLMAO!

Good one, CS, or whoever posted that! :DNo, it wasn't me. I think this guy's the genuine article. I think it's hilarious just the same, though.

[Pardalis]

Obviously, 9/11 affected all of us prodoundly, almost like a trauma. I don't think the sane way to deal with it is to watch over and over again these images and look for minute details that might suggest something is not right. LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE, the entire 9/11 day isn't right, it's a day of infamy! Deal with it!

[shuize]

This has been asked before, but I'm posting again to see if geggy wants to address it this time around:

Geggy, why do you think the "evil" government you claim had no qualms about murdering thousands of civilians is allowing you and your looser friends to continue to expose its nefarious deeds without any negative effects whatsoever?

eta: "its"

[Shrinker]

This has been asked before, but I'm posting again to see if geggy wants to address it this time around:

Geggy, why do you think the "evil" government you claim had no qualms about murdering thousands of civilians is allowing you and your looser friends to continue to expose it's nefarious deeds without any negative effects whatsoever?
Forget it shuize, he only responds when someone else has already written an answer he can paraphrase, quote or link to.

ETA good question tho...

[Pardalis]

And Belz has posted alot of unanswered questions as well. They go about like this...

If the gov staged the terrorist attack:
-Why would they make it look like a controlled demolition?
-If they used explosives, why didn't they just plant a bomb and blame it on the terrorists, why add the planes?

geggy has alot of catching up to do.

[Ramooone]

Heres a radio interview done with dylan. he's got a bunch of suckers who believe him.

http://chio_in_the_morning.podomatic.com/entry/2006-05-02T14_09_11-07_00

[Shrinker]

And Belz has posted alot of unanswered questions as well. They go about like this...

If the gov staged the terrorist attack:
-Why would they make it look like a controlled demolition?
-If they used explosives, why didn't they just plant a bomb and blame it on the terrorists, why add the planes?

geggy has alot of catching up to do.

Why didn't they use WMD? Would have made the whole Iraq thing a little easier to swallow...

[Pardalis]

Why didn't they use WMD? Would have made the whole Iraq thing a little easier to swallow...

And as someone else pointed out earlier, why were the highjackers Saudis and not Iraqis?

[rwguinn]

And Belz has posted alot of unanswered questions as well. They go about like this...

If the gov staged the terrorist attack:
-Why would they make it look like a controlled demolition?
-If they used explosives, why didn't they just plant a bomb and blame it on the terrorists, why add the planes?

geggy has alot of catching up to do.
and for the 100thtime...
How else would it look?
The laws of physics and rules of structural design can't have it any other way!
That is the way things work.

[Hellbound]

The WMD thing ties in perfect with the briefcase nuke theory...

If a briefcase nuke was used, why the ^#$% would you keep it quiet? There's enough proof of WMDs right there for most Americans, would have added a lot of credibility (of course, you'd also, as others pointed out, want Iraqi terrorists).

There's too many things in the CT version that don't make sense, or are contradictory. There'd have to be two or three different conspiracies, each doing a different part of the action, all planning the same things on the same day without any of them knowing of the other. Like I said before, it's not so much a "theory" as a "loose collection of unrelated hypotheses".

[Pardalis]

I aplogize for the error. Sometime the internet provider on my tmobile sidekick can get screwy. I think I'mn being spied on. Not being paranoid, I have nothing to hide. Theyre the ones who are being paranoid. heh

Can't you see there is something wrong in your way of thinking?

This is lucid thinking:
Sometime the internet provider on my tmobile sidekick can get screwy.

This is not:
I think I'mn being spied on.

The worrying thing about it that they both are from the same post. There's nothing more scary than watching a sane person become insane "Live".

[Belz...]

And as someone else pointed out earlier, why were the highjackers Saudis and not Iraqis?

The only explanation I can think of, from a completely objective point of view, is that the mistakes made by the gubbmint during the operation are either:

A) made by people on the inside who wanted the truth to come out.

or

B) purposely made by the EEeeevil gubbmit in order to seed dissent and chaos... or whatnot.

[shuize]

Why hit the Pentagon in addition to the WTC? Did "they" think the public wouldn't be in favor of the War On Terror without that last little cherry on top?

[Belz...]

There's nothing more scary than watching a sane person become insane "Live".

Scary, but entertaining.

[CptColumbo]

Reminds me of Randy Quaid in The Paper.

When asked:
"When did you become so paranoid?"
He says:
"When everyone started plotting against me."

[Belz...]

Why hit the Pentagon in addition to the WTC? Did "they" think the public wouldn't be in favor of the War On Terror without that last little cherry on top?

Which also raises the question of the fourth plane (was it 93 ?) that crashed before reaching its destination. WTH ?

[Pardalis]

Which also raises the question of the fourth plane (was it 93 ?) that crashed before reaching its destination. WTH ?

So that they could do the film "United 93". I'm a little disapointed Belz...

[Belz...]

So that they could do the film "United 93". I'm a little disapointed Belz...

Watch your tone, panther-man. Otherwise you could find that you no longer have ANY matching pair of socks.

[WildCat]

Heres a radio interview done with dylan. he's got a bunch of suckers who believe him.

http://chio_in_the_morning.podomatic.com/entry/2006-05-02T14_09_11-07_00
Link is not working.

[chipmunk stew]

Heres a radio interview done with dylan. he's got a bunch of suckers who believe him.

http://chio_in_the_morning.podomatic.com/entry/2006-05-02T14_09_11-07_00 Damn it! I wish I'd known this was going to aired. I would have called in. These clowns are crapping in my town.

[shuize]

Which also raises the question of the fourth plane (was it 93 ?) that crashed before reaching its destination. WTH ?

Haven't you heard? There was no such flight. Or if there was, it was diverted and the passengers were loaded on a different plane and crashed into the Pentagon. Or, since no plane ever hit the Pentagon, those passengers were taken someplace else and murdered for their DNA. Or it was shot down by the military. Or something, man. I can't keep their f_cking stories straight.

[CptColumbo]

A person using the name Nefastus on IMDB.com wrote this in the United 93 forum. I thought it was interesting.
Here is from a friend of mine who works in the field`

"First off there is footage of the commercial airliner hitting the building.
I've seen it you can prob find it on the internet quite easily.

The pentagon was made to take violent impacts sort of like how a kevlar vest works. It lets some in and absorbs the impact bit by bit.

The streetlights going away from the pentagon.
Concussion waves. Any large explosion has them; hell you can even feel them when a military fighter takes off in burner.
Why weren’t there parts?
Like it was said above aircraft are made to be light but strong.
A.K.A. they use a lot of magnesium, beryllium, aluminum, with some titanium for structural support.
Every metal except for the last listed melts fairly easily.
Jet fuel from an engine fire can melt titanium easily though.
I saw this from an F-15 aircraft 73-110 which had an engine fire and when it landed the titanium engine panels were running off the jet like syrup.

Why wasn’t more debris found?
This depends on the impact and how much fuel load the aircraft has left in it. Meeting the pentagons reinforced walls was one hell of an impact and it was heavily loaded down with fuel.

For example I was on a team that had to locate and investigate a crashed F-16 in New Mexico.
The entire aircraft was in a 6 foot diameter hole about 5 feet deep.
What was left of that aircraft could easily fit in the trunk of my mustang.

Engine parts.
Engines are not made of massive parts but of a whole crap load of small parts and very flimsy fan blades that spin at insane rpm's and disintegrate at the drop of a hat.
Which is why in the military we do a F.O.D. Foreign object damage walk every morning to pick up any rocks and such we can find on the flight line.
Just one large screw on the runway during takeoff roll can cripple an engine and cause the aircraft to crash.

Boeing, Prat Whitney, Northrop, and GE make most of today’s military and commercial engines.
If a Boeing or GE engine takes a hit its toast because the operation specifications are extremely close.
It gives them more thrust and better operating ability but if anything odd occurs watch out.
From a GE rep I was talking to GE engines are more fun but a Prat Whitney engine will get you home.

My squadron uses Prat Whitneys. 100's were upgrading to 220's soon wo hoo.

But what Do I know I’ve just been working on Military aircraft for the past ten years"

Also from another friend of mine

"Aluminum- Melt point 1220°F (source: periodic table of elements)
Titanium- Melt point 3034°F (source: periodic table of elements)
Jp4- Freeburn temperature 9752°F (source: Volume 1, The Dynamics and Thermodynamics of Compressible Fluid Flow)

Now. (And this will be the hard part for some of you)
9752F is what Jp4 "freeburns" at. Freeburn is a Pyro term for "lay it on the ground and burn it" No wind, nothing else feeding the flame, just the material in a lab setting generating heat.

1220F and 3034F is what those materials used in the majority of construction of an aircraft MELT at. (I am sure we all know what melt means)

Now that’s a good 6718F left unaccounted for on the Titanium alone, not to mention the 8532F on the aluminum. And just for the sake of argument we wont even get into ambient heat generated by all the other stuff involved raising the temp even more.

Ok, I am no metallurgist, but I am however a chemist and a pyrotech. The possibility of those two metals *not* "ashing" in that kind of heat is down right silly. Especially when we have all done the "throw a coke can" in the camp fire bit, and seen it melt and ash with our own eyes. You telling me a camp fire burns at OVER 10,000F?? That’s a hellava camp fire! (That’s also called practical real world evaluation, fancy term for we know its true, and can prove it over and over)

Believe what ya want, watch some flash vid telling you what you want to hear, or would like to hear. But the plain (no pun intended) fact of the matter is, an aircraft hit that building, Jp4 spilled out from ruptured wings and then burned/ashed what was left of the small bits that were left solid and didn’t disintegrate on impact. I could go one to punch holes in the video especially with the pic of the "motor" bits seen by the fire fighters, but why bother if this will not get some folks to see facts nothing will.

A flash animation on the net showing pictures that have been edited to a point that the local village idiot would Believe it means nothing to me. The numbers, the facts of the materials involved, sitting there in black and white.. that’s what matters. "
I've corrected some of the spelling.
I would have posted this earlier, but I was waiting for the authors permission

[Ramooone]

Damn it! I wish I'd known this was going to aired. I would have called in. These clowns are crapping in my town.

i sent them a REALLY long e-mail about the real facts of 9/111. hopefully they'll read it and talk about it on the air.

[kookbreaker]

and for the 100thtime...
How else would it look?
The laws of physics and rules of structural design can't have it any other way!
That is the way things work.

Butbutbut! Dr. Jones said the 2nd law of Thermodynamics means "things topple over"! So the buildings should have toppled over!

:p

[60hzxtl]

Butbutbut! Dr. Jones said the 2nd law of Thermodynamics means "things topple over"! So the buildings should have toppled over!

:p


And you know something is happening here, but you don't know what it is, do you, (Dr.) Mr. Jones!

[Ramooone]

since the loosers like to compare things that have nothing in common, like a warehouse fire and how the WTC collapsed. i figured i can do the same thing.

they say its impossible for a plane to penetrate all those walls at the pentagon.
yet i have found evidence that a 2x4 can go clean through a pall tree during a hurricane. so, if i use loosers logic, i can say that it is possible for a plane to penetrate through all those walls. heres the evidence for it. http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2000/of00-006/images/palm.jpg

coincidently, that part of the tree was just reinforced in case of such an attack by hurricanes.

[pgwenthold]

coincidently, that part of the tree was just reinforced in case of such an attack by hurricanes.

nice

[geggy]

Hurtman...
That makes no sense....if what you've claimed was true, then the puff o' dust would have blasted out of more than just one window.

http://www.explosive911analysis.com/B24.jpg

Either it was a very successful terrorist attack or it was a sloppy one..

[CptColumbo]

Forgot what I was going to say. Nevermind.

[Dr Adequate]

For the purposes of comparison :

Video footage of the collapse of the South Tower (http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/)

Video footage of the controlled demolition of a skyscraper (http://www.dfw.com/multimedia/dfw/news/archive/0318implosion1/index.html)

Note the differences.

[pgwenthold]

Wow.

I'm assuming this is a picture of a controlled demolition?

If that is the case, it is really funny that you would post it, because it TOTALLY demolishes any of your claims that the falling of the WTC was a controlled demolition.

In the picture you have shown, did you happen to notice how the building is falling? The bottom is blowing out first.

Now contrast that to the WTC, where the bottom wasn't destroyed until the top fell on it.

In a recent post, I asked you to compare the WTC with a known controlled demolition to show me that they actually look the same. Here, unwittingly, all you have done is clearly shown that the WTC was NOTHING like a controlled demolition.

PS. Why would the dust blow out more than one window? Wouldn't the air just go out the path of least resistence?

[Correa Neto]

Stop poking the guys people!

I must be really terrible to be one of the few left outside the conspiracy...

[kookbreaker]

Hurtman...
That makes no sense....if what you've claimed was true, then the puff o' dust would have blasted out of more than just one window.


Not automatically. And given that you are seeing one side, you cannot be certina.



http://www.explosive911analysis.com/B24.jpg

Either it was a very successful terrorist attack or it was a sloppy one..

What does this prove? You are seeing 'squibs' of explsive charges. The building has yet to start falling. The alleged 'squibs' you point out tkae plcae after the building has started falling.

[chipmunk stew]

They moved the thread into the "lounge" area, out of the 9/11 discussion area.

;)

Really, other kooks do a better job of making the Loosers look ridiculous than we do. They put real effort into making equally spurious graphics and arguments. There's no better illustration of just how confused and silly the 9/11 CT community is.A response from popul vuh included the following brush-off:
I really have come to dislike people like you with your god-on high opinionated BS mouthing off at the very people who have woken up more people to this issue than anyone else out there. People make mistakes. All of us get things wrong. None of us has access to the evidence beyond what little is publicly available out there on the Internet. You match their impact and I'll do anything I can do to help YOU, but with an attitude like yours, that's not likely.http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3526&view=findpost&p=4111394

I guess they don't know how to operate a phone, type an email, or write a letter. They don't know how to visit a public library or a public records office. They don't know how to conduct an interview with someone who has specialized knowledge.

They have access to Benjamin Chertoff, but none of them has ever exploited it. They have access to CDI, but none of them has ever exploited it. They have access to just about every public official in the country, but none of them has ever exploited it.

Gravy, has ANYONE from the Truth Movement taken you up on submitting corrections to your critique?

How do they think information (and misinformation) shows up on the internet in the first place? Do they think it just existed there all along?

No wonder they can't get anything right--they think information and evidence can only be found on the internet!

[kookbreaker]

Wow.

I'm assuming this is a picture of a controlled demolition?

If that is the case, it is really funny that you would post it, because it TOTALLY demolishes any of your claims that the falling of the WTC was a controlled demolition.

In the picture you have shown, did you happen to notice how the building is falling? The bottom is blowing out first.


I don't think the building is even falling at that point in the photo. What you are seeing is the majority of charges firing off at the place where they are needed the most: the base of the building.

[geggy]

The demolishing of WTC started from the top.

[Pardalis]

No wonder they can't get anything right--they think information and evidence can only be found on the internet!

Correction, on their sites!

[Pardalis]

The demolishing of WTC started from the top.

So there WASN'T a bomb in the basement?

[chipmunk stew]

What does this prove? You are seeing 'squibs' of explsive charges. The building has yet to start falling. The alleged 'squibs' you point out tkae plcae after the building has started falling.The 'squibs' are also not very directional--they blow out in a puff of dust sort of spherically. Contrast this with the streams of dust squirting out when the WTC collapsed that are clearly directed by rapidly compressed air trying to equalize with the atmospheric pressure.

[Beleth]

Tell me again, what did UFO have to do with sept 11? I'm really interested in hearing your theories. It was not a UFO!

It was a paranormal event (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=33)!


(some old-schooler was bound to say it, mise well be me)

[chipmunk stew]

The demolishing of WTC started from the top.A completely unprecedented, unorthodox, inefficient, and untested form of "demolition". Tell me again how this resembled a controlled demolition?

[Pardalis]

The demolishing of WTC started from the top.

I think for once you got it right. The demolishing did start from the top, by the collapse of the floors that were plowed throught by the planes. Then ensued a cascading effect that completed the demolition. The demolition was controlled by physics and gravity.

[Pardalis]

May I ask you geggy why you are still here? Obviously nothing you say has any effect. So why insist?

[Manny]

May I ask you geggy why you are still here? Obviously nothing you say has any effect. So why insist?I'm working on a theory that he's here to keep us too busy to go over there.


ETA: And to keep me from every getting that recipe for Mexican corn.

[Regnad Kcin]

May I ask you geggy why you are still here? Obviously nothing you say has any effect. So why insist?Conspiracy porn.

[Mr. Skinny]

It was not a UFO!

It was a paranormal event (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=33)!


(some old-schooler was bound to say it, mise well be me)
To be more accurate, it was a paranormal "hat shaped" event.

And don't ask for evidences. :D

[Beleth]

And don't ask for evidences. :D
But then you will think I am on silence!

[JPK]

Good afternoon geggy.
So which one, or combination of these various CTs are you now in favor of believing?
1. Suitcase Nuke planted to demolish the building because the high cost of asbestos removal?
2. Explosive charges built into the WTC from the begining to be detonated at some future time?
3. People secretly smuggling enough explosives into the WTC without being noticed?
Keeping in mind that any of these needed to be timed perfectly with someone elses attempt at taking down to WTC with planes.
And somehow these CTs seem more plausible to you then the official report? You do realize that the official report will have some gaps and some missing info simply because the people writing the report might not have been the ones who organized the attacks in the first place?
JPK

[Mr. Skinny]

Mr skinny you might want to google around for links.
I"ll take that to mean that you have no evidence to support your statement that "It was an actual fact that ground zero crews were not allowed to wear respirators because they thought "it would frighten the public" so says the white house, which is why you didn't see very many of them wearing respirators."

I'm not doing your homework for you, geggy.

[bob_kark]

Heres a radio interview done with dylan. he's got a bunch of suckers who believe him.

http://chio_in_the_morning.podomatic.com/entry/2006-05-02T14_09_11-07_00

Disturbing quote:

I mean any... anybody... anybody who you show the second edition to and they still can't believe you, which believe me is like a 5 percent margin. Cuz' i mean, its.. you know I'm on... I'm only saying this because I've heard it hundreds and hundreds of times a day. I mean this movie is so effective on people. I mean...

Listening to the rest of the program, I'm beginning to think he might be right. The only person that didn't seem to buy into this lost his sister in the attack. They've got some Iraq war veteran crying because he feels he was betrayed by the government. And of course at the end they have to play, I'm proud to be an American. Pretty sickening. I'm really trying not to get fed up with the entire thing. I'm glad I don't live in Philly.

[Belz...]

Hurtman...
That makes no sense....if what you've claimed was true, then the puff o' dust would have blasted out of more than just one window.

http://www.explosive911analysis.com/B24.jpg

Either it was a very successful terrorist attack or it was a sloppy one..

Do you EVER post pictures that don't look like a 1994 ultra-compressed JPEG ?

[Pardalis]

Just take a look at these overwhelming good reviews of the movie "V for Vendetta"

http://www.cinemamontreal.com/aw/crva.aw/p.cm/r.que/m.Montreal/j.e/i.8531/s.0/f.V_pour_Vendetta_v_f_.html

It's one thing to enjoy a movie, but most of these reviewers consider it some kind of "wake up call"!

I guess the CT appeals to a part of our brains that likes to imagine alternate realities, or to imagin ourselves the victims of a greater evil. The only thing they don't realise is that this works best in movies, NOT REALITY.

I personnally disliked the movie.

[Belz...]

The demolishing of WTC started from the top.

Hurtman...
That makes no sense....if what you've claimed was true, then the puff o' dust would have blasted out of more than just one window.

http://www.explosive911analysis.com/B24.jpg

Either it was a very successful terrorist attack or it was a sloppy one..

So... no micro-nuke under the building, after all ?

[brodski]

Like I said before, it's not so much a "theory" as a "loose collection of unrelated hypotheses". I wouldn't even give it that much credibility, it's a conclusion in search of any semi-coherent narrative.

[dubfan]

Disturbing quote:



Listening to the rest of the program, I'm beginning to think he might be right. The only person that didn't seem to buy into this lost his sister in the attack. They've got some Iraq war veteran crying because he feels he was betrayed by the government. And of course at the end they have to play, I'm proud to be an American. Pretty sickening. I'm really trying not to get fed up with the entire thing. I'm glad I don't live in Philly.

Hello all. Had this thread pointed out to me by someone on another forum, and I just want to echo these sentiments.

I'm so angry at these lunatic CTs -- for exactly these reasons -- that I can hardly see straight. There's a thread in the LC forum "Lounge" claiming you guys are "obsessed" with LC.... If only they knew that everyone is coming here for the comedy.

It's been a pleasure watching you guys demolish this piece of rubbish. Sorry for the threadjack... Please continue.

[Belz...]

Hello all. Had this thread pointed out to me by someone on another forum, and I just want to echo these sentiments.

I'm so angry at these lunatic CTs -- for exactly these reasons -- that I can hardly see straight. There's a thread in the LC forum "Lounge" claiming you guys are "obsessed" with LC.... If only they knew that everyone is coming here for the comedy.

It's been a pleasure watching you guys demolish this piece of rubbish. Sorry for the threadjack... Please continue.

Welcome dubfan.

Here's hoping for many hours of you almost passing out in laughter.

Oh... and the learning!!

[Dr Adequate]

Geggy :

Watch the video footage of the collapse of the south tower (http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/).

You can SEE what happens.

The building starts to give way at the weakest point, i.e. the corner nearest to our viewpoint at the level at which the plane hit.

The undamaged top portion of the tower then falls through the gutted floors. While it does that, dust under pressure billows out continuously from the same point, i.e. the bottom of the hole made by impact.

Then the intact top of the tower crashes into the intact floors below the gutted area, and there's suddenly a lot more dust thrown off at impact, which moves downwards as the top of the tower plows through the intact floors below.

Compare that with ANY controlled demolition.

Here are some more controlled demolitions (http://www.implosionworld.com/cinema.htm).

Oh, and here's a question for you --- how the heck can you have a controlled demolition in a building which is on fire? The thing about explosives, y'see, the really crucial fact about explosives, IS THAT THEY BLEEDIN' WELL EXPLODE!

Hence the name "explosives".

[chipmunk stew]

So... no micro-nuke under the building, after all ?Look again, Belz..., that orange-brown stuff around the base of the building is exactly the same color as the globs of fallout that my workers have to clean up when a nuclear power plant melts down in "Civ III".

[Correa Neto]

Dudes and dudesses, I were from any anti-USA group I would surely support and provide "evidence" to back these conspiracy claims. Interesting way to undermine confidence in the government.

[bob_kark]

Hello all. Had this thread pointed out to me by someone on another forum, and I just want to echo these sentiments.

I'm so angry at these lunatic CTs -- for exactly these reasons -- that I can hardly see straight. There's a thread in the LC forum "Lounge" claiming you guys are "obsessed" with LC.... If only they knew that everyone is coming here for the comedy.

It's been a pleasure watching you guys demolish this piece of rubbish. Sorry for the threadjack... Please continue.

Welcome dubfan, needless to say, I know how you feel.

[60hzxtl]

LC'er "Well the metal melted an stuff and. . .

JREF'er - "According to the table aluminum melts at a temperature of. .

LC'er - "Wow man! Like that's written down someplace! Man its a conspiracy!"

JREF'er -"Davinci proved that freefall was. . .

LC'er "Davinci was in on it man! I'm telling ya."


LC'ers Dylan Avery thinks you are stupid. He made a movie and talked over it. He says stupid things and you second him. Maybe he's right. His audience IS stupid.

[dubfan]

Welcome dubfan.

Here's hoping for many hours of you almost passing out in laughter.

Oh... and the learning!!

Right now, it's my first read of the day. I think it's been averaging at least 2 collapses into hysterics per page, so far. I haven't actually read *all* of the thread, though. I'm saving pages 20-50. Kind of like a little rainy day fund. Or mad money. Ya know, stuff like that.

I just hope someone can find the time and resources to produce a film from Gravy's excellent and very thorough debunking. Normally I can't be bothered to give a CT the time of day, but the fact that this piece of crap is getting airtime thru major media outlets and watching Dylan Avery's head blow up to the size of an exploding 757 as he profits from the dead... Something needs to be done.

[Ramooone]

Right now, it's my first read of the day. I think it's been averaging at least 2 collapses into hysterics per page, so far. I haven't actually read *all* of the thread, though. I'm saving pages 20-50. Kind of like a little rainy day fund. Or mad money. Ya know, stuff like that.

I just hope someone can find the time and resources to produce a film from Gravy's excellent and very thorough debunking. Normally I can't be bothered to give a CT the time of day, but the fact that this piece of crap is getting airtime thru major media outlets and watching Dylan Avery's head blow up to the size of an exploding 757 as he profits from the dead... Something needs to be done.

i can probably do a film from gravys debunking i'm a filmmaker, and gravy does live in brooklyn and so do i.....hmm.....

[pgwenthold]

The demolishing of WTC started from the top.

So has there ever been a known controlled demolition that has started from the top?

If you can't provide such an example, then on what grounds can you claim that the WTC looks like a controlled demolition?

[chipmunk stew]

Normally I can't be bothered to give a CT the time of day, but the fact that this piece of crap is getting airtime thru major media outlets and watching Dylan Avery's head blow up to the size of an exploding 757 as he profits from the dead... Something needs to be done.That about sums up what got me all riled up.

Welcome, dubfan.