Loose Change

[Z]

Sighs...

Under normal circumstances of a conteolled demolition, the bottom of the central cores of the building are blasted first (which explains the penthouse fell down before everything else fell), then the cores on both sides of the builidng are blasted. Why? So the two sides of the building can collapse toward and inward of the center of the building. Why? To prevent the risk of both sides of the building from falling outward that could create larger field of debris that would make clean up less convienance and more difficult for machines and trucks.
Since that's not how WTC7 fell, will you concede that it was not a controlled demo?

The building slumped to one side as it fell, indicative of collapse due to structural damage from fires, rather than straight down, which could be indicative of controlled demo.

[Beleth]

Anyone with a brain knows the Bush administration was complicit in the attacks....have ya ever even try to entertain the thought of it???
Before I answer your question, please answer mine.

[kookbreaker]

Read this first...

http://go.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=1187499&section=news&src=rss/uk/topNews

Then check out this website...

http://mujca.com/

Oh my god!!!! Conspiracy theorists got to them!!!!! Shame on them!!!!!


Wow. Could you oversimplify a very complex and emotional series of issues for victims of the attacks? Nowhere did the victims say the man was innocent, or that Bush should be on trial. You are talking about people who have experienced much death and now want to prevent further deaath in the names of their loved ones.


Anyone with a brain knows the Bush administration was complicit in the attacks....have ya ever even try to entertain the thought of it???

When you consider the complete lack of evidence, the thought doesn't stick around very long. You must have noticed all the posts in this thread that have resulted in you getting your butt kicked every time you tried to bring up a claim?

Its painfully obvious that this conspriacy is an addiction for you. You beleive in it because it makes you feel smart. You can feel superior becuase you are in the 'know' despite the fact that you are consistantly shown to be an idiot.

Conspiracy Theories are the opium of the self-impressed, and you are a junkie.

[Mojo]

Anyone with a brain knows the Bush administration was complicit in the attacks...Why do they "know" this?

[Dr Adequate]

Read this first...

http://go.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=1187499&section=news&src=rss/uk/topNews What about it? It doesn't mention your conspiracy theory.

Then check out this website...

http://mujca.com/

Oh my god!!!! Conspiracy theorists got to them!!!!! Shame on them!!!!! Er, no. They are conspiracy theorists. Shame on them.

Anyone with a brain knows the Bush administration was complicit in the attacks... What a strange lie.

I know many intelligent people who do not "know" that.

have ya ever even try to entertain the thought of it??? Yes, I have "entertained" the thought, and as soon as you guys can show me a scrap of a scintilla of a shred of evidence for it, then I shall take it seriously.

[NobbyNobbs]

. The administration took full advantage to galvinize public support for the hunt of Osama in the middle east, meaning they used sept 11 as a justification to invade the middle east in order to maximize their profit and expand their military power. Also it's a matter of public record that Daddy Bush has financial ties to the bin Ladens that was established in the 70's.

Gaggy, you are confusing correlation and causation. Sure, it's true that the administration took advantage of the situation, in my opinion. That doesn't mean they caused it. By this same argument, you'd have to say that all the people who took advantage of the chaos in New Orleans to loot stores were responsible for bringing on the hurricane in the first place.

When Avery said 9/11 is the new JFK, he meant that 70 percent of the public were convinced that oswald didn't act alone and the warren commission was a whitewash.

Actually, what I thought he meant (and if I'm putting words in his mouth, I apologize) was that 9/11 was an eye-opener for our generation. Ask my parents about the day JFK was shot and they'll recall the details like it was yesterday. Same thing for me and 9/11.


Nearly 3 billion dollars have been spent on propaganda and PR campaign since the start of bush's presidency.

Every administration spends money on propaganda and PR. How does this advance your theory?

[Curnir]

Well parehanslia, third eye is a slang for frontal lobe of your brain.

In what part of the world pray tell?

[Gravy]

Geggy, you said:
I thought you'd be interested in knowing that many family members are defending moussaoui from receiving death penalty because they believe he is the wrong guy to be on trial. No BS here.
I replied:
I am interested. Please tell me who they are. And please be sure that it's for the reason you state, and not because they're opposed to the death penalty as a policy.
I then decided to do your homework for you. I pointed you to an article that said there was one woman at Moussaoui's trial who, although she believed he was involved, didn't believe he should be on trial. The article made it clear that the rest of the people who testified for the defense did so because they are death panalty opponents.

You took the time to ridicule my response, but you did not respond to my repeated requests to provide that "major media" reference that said there were many family members who believed that Moussaoui was the wrong guy.

After I continued pushing, you finally responded with an article that mentions only the same woman I had told you about as the one who didn't think Moussaoui should be on trial.

So there we have it. You are not trustworthy, and you are full of B.S.

Please go away, troll. This is a forum for people who are serious about these issues.

[Dr Adequate]

In what part of the world pray tell? He's confusing the frontal lobe with the pineal gland, and woowoo nonsense with slang.

[geggy]

Yeah I'm starting now to see why Bush administration is getting away with it...

http://news.globalfreepress.com/images/bush/thumb_Connect_Dots_small.gif

[senorpogo]

That's because your third eye has been spraypainted.


A little too much Bill Hicks for you?

[kookbreaker]

Yeah I'm starting now to see why Bush administration is getting away with it...


You have a lot of faith in Bush's abilities. You must secretely want to be him for all your fawning admiration of his (alleged) conspiratorial abilities.

[Stellafane]

...Anyone with a brain knows the Bush administration was complicit in the attacks....

Ahh geggy, you see, now you're simply being insulting. And very, very wrong. Do you know why I know you're wrong? Because, as proved by their contributions to this forum, virtually everyone here has a brain. I'll even go one step further -- comparing the reasoned, researched writings in this forum to yours, your fellow Loose Changers, and the "documentary" itself, the brains in this forum are functioning vastly more efficiently than all the CT'ers combined. But almost everyone in this forum disagrees with your contention regarding Bush's involvement in 9/11. So when you say "Anyone with a brain knows the Bush administration was complicit in the attacks," you are utterly incorrect. This is not a matter of opinion; this is a proven, demonstrable fact.

It appears, geggy my man, that you realize all too well that you've been backed into a corner. You're now ignoring all inconvenient questions, and your postings have recently devolved from doggedly repeating stuff you don't even remotely understand to simply flinging insults at your intellectual superiors. So I think it's time you plot your exit strategy. Here's a popular one: respond to this posting by calling me something really obscene, ignore the warning, and get yourself banned -- you know, 'suicide by mod." Then you can go back to your Loose Change forum or wherever you came from, someplace where they'll welcome every stray piece of idiocy you write without the slightest question, and brag about how you took us on and we had no choice but to ban you for "telling the truth." That way you get to look like a hero to your fellow CT'ers, and we don't have to further endure your offensively stupid drivel.

[senorpogo]

Yeah I'm starting now to see why Bush administration is getting away with it...

http://news.globalfreepress.com/images/bush/thumb_Connect_Dots_small.gif

THAT IS SO CLEVER!!! LOL!!!:blush: ROFL!!! :)!!! PWN!!!11!!!

[delphi_ote]

Sighs...

Under normal circumstances of a conteolled demolition, the bottom of the central cores of the building are blasted first (which explains the penthouse fell down before everything else fell), then the cores on both sides of the builidng are blasted. Why? So the two sides of the building can collapse toward and inward of the center of the building. Why? To prevent the risk of both sides of the building from falling outward that could create larger field of debris that would make clean up less convienance and more difficult for machines and trucks.
So if it wasn't a controlled demolition, what would be different about this building's collapse?

[delphi_ote]

Gravy, trust me. It came from the mainstream media source.
Then by your logic, shouldn't we distrust it? Why is it you conspiracy nuts seem to trust mainstream media sources as a reliable when you think it supports your ideas and dismiss it as propaganda when it does not?

[Dr Adequate]

Yeah I'm starting now to see why Bush administration is getting away with it...

http://news.globalfreepress.com/images/bush/thumb_Connect_Dots_small.gif Let's see if I can join the dots.

DOT #1 : Large aircraft laden with fuel were crashed into a building at high speed.

DOT #2 : The building collapsed.

Yeah, I think I can just about manage to join the dots.

How 'bout you, geggy?

[bob_kark]

Sighs...

Under normal circumstances of a conteolled demolition, the bottom of the central cores of the building are blasted first (which explains the penthouse fell down before everything else fell), then the cores on both sides of the builidng are blasted. Why? So the two sides of the building can collapse toward and inward of the center of the building. Why? To prevent the risk of both sides of the building from falling outward that could create larger field of debris that would make clean up less convienance and more difficult for machines and trucks.

How many times do we need to revist the fact that several buildings in the surrounding area were heavily damaged during the collapse of WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7? Many had to be demolished due to the extensive damage. If any of the three were the result of a controlled demolition, they would be the worst on, or rather off in this case, record.

[aggle-rithm]

Since we're back on WTC7, geggy, maybe you can answer the question that's been posed several times:

If WTC7 was demolished, why was it done secretly when all the other heavily damaged buildings in the area were demolished out in the open?

If you're going to tell me it's so investigators wouldn't see sooper-secret documents, please be ready to explain why any investigators would be willing to run the blockade of firefighters to enter a burning building with a noticeably slumping roof.

Remember, EVERYTHING has to make sense, not just the part you're ranting about right now, or the whole theory falls apart.

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by geggy:
Gravy, trust me. It came from the mainstream media source.
Then by your logic, shouldn't we distrust it? Why is it you conspiracy nuts seem to trust mainstream media sources as a reliable when you think it supports your ideas and dismiss it as propaganda when it does not?The astonishing thing is that he posted that when replying to a post that asked whether the Bush administration has a stranglehold on the public media all over the world, as required by Geggy's assertion that "the official theory is accepted by many citizens because the bush administration has a stranglehold of the media."

:hb:

[Regnad Kcin]

The USA Today article is a lead piece on today's AOL welcome screen.

[Regnad Kcin]

Geggy, I asked, but you did not reply: What do you do for a living?

[senorpogo]

The USA Today article is a lead piece on today's AOL welcome screen.

"Penelope Price, a documentary filmmaker and professor at Scottsdale Community College, said she brought the filmmakers to the campus to stimulate critical thinking."

:eek:

[pgwenthold]

"Penelope Price, a documentary filmmaker and professor at Scottsdale Community College, said she brought the filmmakers to the campus to stimulate critical thinking."

:eek:

Wow, a invite to Scottsdale Community College! They've hit the big time, now.

What's next? Open-mic night at Joe's Crab Shack?

So professors at a community college are trying to drum up some press for their school, whereas scholarly institutions are laughing them off.

Shoot, even the BYU physics department is trying to separate themselves from one of their own just because he is heavily cited by the CTers.

[Pardalis]

Informationclearinghouse.info has good and well balanced articles relating sept 11.

Yeah, right...

informationclearinghouse.info/article12195.htm

"In this essay, I will try picking up the bowl rather than just the Jell-O - the deep story that frames much of our history - to see if I can grasp the overall story that includes 9-11, our imperialism, our invasions of Iraq and Iran, the theft of trillions of dollars from the tax base to transfer to the top tenth of a percent or so of our population, the rise in repressive laws, loss of civil liberties, increase in the state power of Christian fundamentalism, and its accompanying marginalization of women that always accompanies fascisms and fundamentalisms."

I added theses (" ") by the way

[Pardalis]

During the time of the attack, citizens were bolted down with fear and distress causing the frontal lobes of their brain to shut down which means they were not thinking clearly at all.

Maybe it's because I'm a francophone, but can you explain to me what the hell this is supposed to mean?

By citizens, would it include people who thought heard explosions in the WTC, and others who think they saw a missile hit the pentagon?

[Pardalis]

Pelrhsaios,

Now this is getting infantile... You're really showing us a lot of maturity.


I can't really say. Some say planes may have been remote controlled and that's not so farfetched. Before the pentagon was crashed, the plane made a sharp 270 degree bank turn and crashed the west wing where the part was being renovated. It's almost impossible for an amateur pilot to make a 270 degree turn but it's possible with remote control. The reason why we don't see very many plane debris may be because the debris were delved into the ground. I mean the plane was going 500 mph when it crashed, you know.

So according to you, Al Qaeda had nothing to do with 9/11? What about your circumstantial evidence that the Bushs had ties with the Bin Laden family? What was that all about then?

[Pardalis]

http://go.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=1187499&section=news&src=rss/uk/topNews

Wow, these people are a special breed. If there were more of them in this world, maybe there wouldn't be so much violence and wars. If there is any goodness in this world, here it is.

Bless their hearts.


This on the other hand...

http://mujca.com/

This is showing us what you really are... A f**ing lunatic!

Unfortunately, there are too much of your kind in this world.

[geggy]

The astonishing thing is that he posted that when replying to a post that asked whether the Bush administration has a stranglehold on the public media all over the world, as required by Geggy's assertion that "the official theory is accepted by many citizens because the bush administration has a stranglehold of the media."

:hb:

Umm...read the article here that was copied and pasted then click on the link below the article. These things have been happening quite often as I've noticed..

http://question911.livejournal.com/1981.html

Once I started to see the light that sept 11 was an inside job, everything became much clearer. It's now easier for me to recongize propaganda whenever I see it.

Aahahaha of course they would push the loose change article on top of the USA today website. That is wide opened propaganda. Either they're trying to demonize and discredit the sept 11 movement or they're giving out subtle hints that you should check out the film and do your own research.

Readers will react either in a way they will dismiss it as conspracy theory loony or they will wonder and check why people are questioning the official story...

Go to www.rawstory.com and click on the flight 93 link. The article asked some hard questions.

Connecting the dots here, in chronicle order...

-Mountain of forewarnings (fact)
-PNAC think tank created and claimed they needed a "catalyzing event like a new pearl harbor." as a pretext for invading the M.E. to meet with their agenda (fact)
-Rumsfeld changed NORAD policy that in case of an emergency, only Rummy can give orders to deploy fighter jets (fact)
-NSA spying prior to sept 11 (fact)
-even more forewarnings (fact)
-numerous wargame exercises were performed. WTC and pentagon were several practice targets (fact)
-Silverstein signed a $3.2 bil lease to WTC in the summer prior to sept 11 (fact)
-insider tradings prior to sept 11. AA and UA airliners stocks massively sold. (fact)
-New york city alert level heightened few days prior to sept 11 (fact)
-wargame exercises began as scheduled in morning of sept 11 (fact)
-north tower attacked
-bush arrived booker school (fact)
-south tower attacked
-bush told about 2nd attack, continued to read my pet goat (fact)
-pentagon attacked 45 minutes after the 2nd wtc attacked without any fighter jets deployed to protect DC (fact)
-south tower collapsed
-north tower collapsed
-fighter jets deployed to look after flight 93 with still no fighter jets deployed to protect DC (fact)
-Rummy laid out plans to attack Iraq in the same day (fact)
-flight 93 crashed?
-bin Laden named the culprit later in the same day with no evidence shown (fact)
-WTC7 collapsed
-bin Laden denies involvement in front of a video camera (fact)
-Bush claimed the attack came as a surprise (fact)
-bin Laden denies involvement for 2nd time in front of a video camera (fact)
-top government officials all over the world asked US for evidence pointing bin Laden as the culprit (fact)
-FBI were told to put halt on investigation on Oct 10, 2001 (fact)
-bin Laden's most wanted record in fbi.gov website updated in nov 2001, with nothing said about sept 11 (fact)
-US invaded afghanistan (fact)
-In the following dec, videotape of bin Laden discussing his successful terror operation released, but it was clearly not bin Laden, the videotape was the only supposedly evidence (fact)
-no one working for intelligence agency fired, some promoted and received medals (fact)
-several supposedly hijackers reportedly shown up alive and claimed their innocence (fact)
-Bush obstructed independant investigation for next 3 years, angering some families of victims (fact)
-9/11 commission report released in 2004
-After appealling twice, Silverstein finally granted insurance claims. Twin towers attack considered as two seperate incidents, in which he received nearly two times larger than what he originally asked for. (fact)
-Moussaoui, the only sept 11 suspect, trial finally begins 5 years later (fact)
-bin Laden still not captured (fact)
-NIST misses deadline twice as to their conclusion of why WTC7 collapsed (fact)

[Pardalis]

Once I started to see the light that sept 11 was an inside job, everything became much clearer.

So YOU'RE an Illuminati!:eek:

[Regnad Kcin]

...When Avery said 9/11 is the new JFK, he meant that 70 percent of the public were convinced that oswald didn't act alone and the warren commission was a whitewash. Unfortunately the reopening of a new investigation never happened...And at one point 100% (or as near to make the difference irrelevant) of the public believed the Earth is flat.

Do you have any idea what logical fallacies (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/) are?

[Regnad Kcin]

I'm starting to suspect that people like geggy and the Loose Changers are Republican operatives, directed by Karl Rove. Their seeming anti-Bush bleatings, wacky-to-the-extreme as they are, will only help to secure sympathy for the right heading into the '06 elections, not to mention the run-up to the next presidential campaign.

See what we're up against in the War on Terror, Mr. Bush will proclaim, with a knowing nod from Mr. Rove. Our enemies even suggest we attacked ourselves! The purpose being to equate any legitimate criticism of this administration's policies (and by extension party's policies) with all criticism of the same.

How's that for a conspiracy theory?

[Dr Adequate]

So, none of these "facts" (unreferenced) have anything to do with the supposed "controlled demolition" of the twin towers.

[Blackwell]

Aahahaha of course they would push the loose change article on top of the USA today website. That is wide opened propaganda. Either they're trying to demonize and discredit the sept 11 movement or they're giving out subtle hints that you should check out the film and do your own research.
So which is it, geggy? You can't have it both ways. Either the media is in on the conspiracy, or they're not.

[Ramooone]

I'm done with geggy, im just going to start complaining about CTers.


my favorite argument is when they say the buildings fall at free-fall speed, yet if you actually watch it, it's closer to 15 seconds. some of the CTers like to say well, thats pretty fast still, yet if they did the calculations themselves they'd realise that if the buildings were twice as high they would fall in 13 seconds freefall.

so the building actually fell slower than if it was twice its height in free-fall.

another thing that pisses me off about these loosers is the fact that they all say these are documentaries. they aren't. i'm a documentary filmmaker and i know the work that goes into shooting docs, all the interviews, the RESEARCH and work it takes in general. when you make a documentary out of everyone elses footage its like saying you wrote a book when in reality you actually just photocoppied a bunch of articles from the newspaper.

[Stellafane]

...Once I started to see the light that sept 11 was an inside job, everything became much clearer...

Or phrased another way, "Once I went nuts, I stopped letting reality stand in the way of what I wanted to believe."

[rwguinn]

I'd be more interested to hear you explain why it does look like a controlled demo. You've already shown that you know very little about demolitions.
It does look like a controlled Demo.
That is because the laws of physics and engineering work the same way every time.
A controlled demolition is designed to cripple the structure so that gravity can take over and do the work.
Crashing a Jumbo Jet int a building is designed to cripple the structure so that gravity can take over and do the work.
In a building, if the support structure is designed to handle a million ton load (wind, snow, and other structure above), you can collapse it 2 ways:
1: Increase the loading. Buildings have collapsed because of excessive snow or rain loading, high wind loading (yes, especially on a sloped roof), and stuff dropping on them (airplanes, trucks, etc)
2: weaken the structure so it is no longer capable of supporting 1 million tons. This is done by removing support colums (such as by chainsaw, cutting torch, trucks colliding with it, airplanes crashing into it, shaped charges), weakening support collums (partial cutting, heating them above design temperature, removing fasteners, dry rot, rust)

Combine 1 and 2, and you have a demolished building. Controlled demolition allows you to chose the time, and by selectively weakening/cutting supports, cause the debris to fall more or less in a particular direction

[R.Mackey]

So let me see if I've got this straight. Claimed is that:

(a) Some shadowy cabal decided to destroy the World Trade center, motive unimportant.
(b) 767's hit the World Trade Center at speed.
(c) This was insufficient to destroy the buildings.
(d) A subsequent demolition charge finished them off.

Even if we ignore the fact that (d) is provably false, in fact quite insane, Mr. Geggy's claims are still unreasonable. How can this mysterious force be so clever to organize and execute this scheme "almost" undetected, yet simultaneously so stupid as to not, say, use larger 747's instead?

Any conspiracy with the means to execute this plan, would not execute this plan. No matter what the motive nor constraints, there were a wealth of better options to achieve the same results. This takes no particular genius to appreciate.

Mr. Geggy, if you are terrified of these people, I can only imagine the horror you would feel towards a conspiracy with similar resources plus some actual intelligence behind it.

[geggy]

Crashing a Jumbo Jet int a building is designed to cripple the structure so that gravity can take over and do the work.
In a building, if the support structure is designed to handle a million ton load (wind, snow, and other structure above), you can collapse it 2 ways:
1: Increase the loading. Buildings have collapsed because of excessive snow or rain loading, high wind loading (yes, especially on a sloped roof), and stuff dropping on them (airplanes, trucks, etc)
2: weaken the structure so it is no longer capable of supporting 1 million tons. This is done by removing support colums (such as by chainsaw, cutting torch, trucks colliding with it, airplanes crashing into it, shaped charges), weakening support collums (partial cutting, heating them above design temperature, removing fasteners, dry rot, rust)

Combine 1 and 2, and you have a demolished building. Controlled demolition allows you to chose the time, and by selectively weakening/cutting supports, cause the debris to fall more or less in a particular direction


You're right about the plane that sliced through the top portion and weakened the area of the impact. But do you think it might be possible that explosives could be preplanted underneath the impact to weaken/cut supports as it explodes to allow the building collapse to it's footprint?

By the way do you consider the former head of Star Wars Program under presidents jimmy carter and gerald ford a conspiracy theorist?

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/april2006/040406mainsuspect.htm

[rwguinn]

One of the things the Loosers keep harping on is the "Central Core" of the WTC not being all that damaged.
If you go back to the first attempt, the bomb in the basement job in the 1990's, we actually told the terrorists how to bring the building down. I am going to paraphrase, here, because I don't have the exact link and verbage, but
The towers do not have a "central core" to speak of. The load is primarily carried at the perimeter. The Empire State building survived the airplane crash because it is built about a load-carrying central core.
By trying to blow the central core of the the WTC, the terrorists exposed their ignorance of modern building.

so we told 'em how, back in the early 90's. I'll try to find the link

[rwguinn]

You're right about the plane that sliced through the top portion and weakened the area of the impact. But do you think it might be possible that explosives could be preplanted underneath the impact to weaken/cut supports as it explodes to allow the building collapse to it's footprint?

By the way do you consider the former head of Star Wars Program under presidents jimmy carter and gerald ford a conspiracy theorist?

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/april2006/040406mainsuspect.htm

NO and NO.
Idiot. Lousy attempt at a derail...

[Pardalis]

So, none of these "facts" (unreferenced) have anything to do with the supposed "controlled demolition" of the twin towers.

Nor do they indicate that the Bush administration knew specifically about the 9/11 plot.

-Bush claimed the attack came as a surprise (fact)
-bin Laden denies involvement for 2nd time in front of a video camera (fact)


So you take the word of a terrorist over the one of your elected president. That's nice. I myself don't particularly trust politicians, but I also REALLY don't trust terrorists.

In your list of facts, you conveniently ommit to report the following:

-febuary 26 1993, a missed Al Qaeda attack on the WTC (FACT)
-Al Qaeda bombing at a U.S. military facility in Riyadh in November 1995, in Saudi Arabia (FACT)
-1996 Khobar Towers bombing by Al Qaeda, Saudi Arabia (FACT)
-August 1998, Al Qaeda bombs the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania (FACT)
-December 1999 into 2000, Al Qaeda failed attacks against U.S. and Israeli tourists in Jordan for millennial celebrations (Jordanian authorities thwarted the planned attacks and put 28 suspects on trial) (FACT)
-same year, failed planned bombing of the Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, bomber Ahmed Ressam was caught at the US-Canadian border with explosives in the trunk of his car. (FACT)
-Al Qadea attack on the U.S. warship USS Cole in October 2000 (FACT)
-december 2000, the German police foiled a plot to destroy a cathedral in Strasbourg, France (FACT)
-september 11, Al Qaeda operatives highkjack airline jets and fly them into the WTC and the pentagon (FACT)
-september 11, failed attack on the White house, the passengers of flight 93 over powered the Al Qaeda highjackers. (FACT)
-October 2002, Bali bombings by the group Jemaah Islamiyah, linked to Al Qaeda. (FACT)
-March 11, 2004 commuter trains are bombed in Madrid, by Al Qaeda (FACT)
-7th of July 2005 London subway and double decker bus bombings attributed to Al Qaeda (FACT)
-July 23, 2005, Al-Qaeda is suspected of being involved with the Sharm el-Sheikh attacks in Egypt. (FACT)
-November 9, 2005 Al Qaeda strongly suspected for bombing of American owned hotels in Amman, Jordan. (FACT)

And so on....

(edited for typo)

[Regnad Kcin]

You're right about the plane that sliced through the top portion and weakened the area of the impact. But do you think it might be possible that explosives could be preplanted underneath the impact to weaken/cut supports as it explodes to allow the building collapse to it's footprint?No, Occam's Razor and all.

[senorpogo]

You're right about the plane that sliced through the top portion and weakened the area of the impact. But do you think it might be possible that explosives could be preplanted underneath the impact to weaken/cut supports as it explodes to allow the building collapse to it's footprint?

By the way do you consider the former head of Star Wars Program under presidents jimmy carter and gerald ford a conspiracy theorist?

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/april2006/040406mainsuspect.htm

Here's a question that's been asked throughout this thread - why was it necessary for the conspiracy to have the towers fall? If the point was to create a "new Pearl Harbor", wouldn't the attacks themselves (planes crashing into the buildings) have been enough to achieve that goal? You don't see anything ridiculous in the need to blow them up as well?

And, yes, regardless of credentials, when someone theorizes about a conspircay, they are, by definition, a conspiracy theorist.

[Regnad Kcin]

Here's a question that's been asked throughout this thread - why was it necessary for the conspiracy to have the towers fall? If the point was to create a "new Pearl Harbor", wouldn't the attacks themselves (planes crashing into the buildings) have been enough to achieve that goal? You don't see anything ridiculous in the need to blow them up as well?As one who has suggested as much, naturally I agree.

Seems to me the image of two massively damaged towers constantly on display for the whole world to see would be quite a powerful FU. Not coincidentally, as he recounted to one of his followers on the video released not long after the attack, OBL did not expect the buildings to fall once the planes hit.

[Polaris]

Once I started to see the light that sept 11 was an inside job, everything became much clearer. It's now easier for me to recongize propaganda whenever I see it.



"Once I started to see the light that Jesus was Lord, everything became much clearer. Now it's easier for me to recognize the work of Satan whenever I see it."

We have here belief without evidence in notions that fly in the face of existing evidence and mental gymnastics when the fallacies are pointed out. CTs are faith-based, secular religions.

Also geggy, where I come from, "third eye" is something that occasionally requires Preparation H.

[Pardalis]

Here's a good read for our friend the gecko.

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/Post911/dubious_claims.html

[tsig]

[QUOTE=geggy;1606713]Yeah I'm starting now to see why Bush administration is getting away with it...

[qimg]

CAREFUL ! Do not click on any of gaggy's links. I did and had to turn off firefox to escape

[bob_kark]

By the way do you consider the former head of Star Wars Program under presidents jimmy carter and gerald ford a conspiracy theorist?

Oh, you mean Dr. Robert Bowman? Yes, he is a conspiracy nut. From his website. (http://bowman2006.com/issues_az.htm)

The illegal bombing of Serbia and Kosovo had nothing to do with ethnic cleansing, but money. We should end our occupation. See Kosovo article on www.rmbowman.com/ssn for much more.


New World Order: The New World Order got its start with Charlie Wilson (chairman of General Motors and later Secretary of Defense) and Krupp Industries in Hitler’s Germany in the 1930s. It got a big push from David Rockefeller in 1960 with the Trilateral Commission, and reached its fruition under George H. W. Bush. It incorporates the IMF, the World Bank, the G-8, and the WTO. It rules the world on behalf of the billionaire industrialists and bankers. It is global capitalism run amok. It manipulates public opinion through its corporate media monopolies. If we can’t take back America, there’s not much hope for the rest of the world.

From A Veteran's View (http://bowman2006.com/veterans_view.htm)

Let’s face it, we Democrats face a rigged electoral system, election-day intimidation, voter purges, and other skullduggery, not to mention the Republican-owned, programmed, and operated voting machines with no paper trail. We also face the most deceitful, manipulative, and corrupt national administration in our nation’s history. Karl Rove is a master illusionist, and Dick Cheney is a crafty genius. Together they have turned an affable idiot into a two-term president.

Don't get me wrong, I do actually think he means well, but he seems to be blinded by politics. In addition, all of his statements were not from first hand knowledge, they are just accusations.

[aggle-rithm]

geggy:

If WTC7 was demolished, why was it done secretly when all the other heavily damaged buildings in the area were demolished out in the open?

[aggle-rithm]

By the way do you consider the former head of Star Wars Program under presidents jimmy carter and gerald ford a conspiracy theorist?




Evidence that the Star Wars program originated during the Carter Administration?

[aggle-rithm]

Evidence that the Star Wars program originated during the Carter Administration?

Sorry, that would be the FORD administration. Even less credible.

[geggy]

Padallas

Al Qaeda was not involved with the london bombing: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,,1750279,00.html

In every other bombings you've listed had weird anomalies surrounding the attacks and most doubt al qaeda had any involvement. But it would take me forever to gather links and post it here.

As for the wtc...I thought it might be interesting for you to know that the asbestos on first several floors of each world trade were extremely high in volume and posed a serious health threat. The leaseholder of the wtc was forced to either remove the asbestos or condemn the buildings. But he couldn't afford to shut down the wtc and struggled for years to find an interest party to take over the lease. So came along larry silverstein who took over the lease few weeks prior to sept 11. The twin towers became useful for staging the new pearl harbor. The possible deliberation of imploding both of the towers were to maximize shock and profit.

Wtc buildings 3, 4, 5 and 6 all were demolished few days later by demolition crew.

[Manny]

Hey geggy, to where did you take your newfound information about the cut columns?

And are you doing this for free or is al Qaeda paying you?

[Blackwell]

Padallas

Al Qaeda was not involved with the london bombing: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,,1750279,00.html

In every other bombings you've listed had weird anomalies surrounding the attacks and most doubt al qaeda had any involvement. But it would take me forever to gather links and post it here.

As for the wtc...I thought it might be interesting for you to know that the asbestos on first several floors of each world trade were extremely high in volume and posed a serious health threat. The leaseholder of the wtc was forced to either remove the asbestos or condemn the buildings. But he couldn't afford to shut down the wtc and struggled for years to find an interest party to take over the lease. So came along larry silverstein who took over the lease few weeks prior to sept 11. The twin towers became useful for staging the new pearl harbor. The possible deliberation of imploding both of the towers were to maximize shock and profit.

Wtc buildings 3, 4, 5 and 6 all were demolished few days later by demolition crew.
Wow. Just wow. Geggy, you really are intellectually stunted. It's severely bad form to make all these claims without backing them up (yes, I know it's easier your way, but PLEASE try not to be so lazy.)

[aggle-rithm]

Padallas


Wtc buildings 3, 4, 5 and 6 all were demolished few days later by demolition crew.

geggy:

If WTC7 was demolished, why was it done secretly when all the other heavily damaged buildings in the area were demolished out in the open?

[Pardalis]

Al Qaeda was not involved with the london bombing: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,,1750279,00.html

I stand corrected.

In every other bombings you've listed had weird anomalies surrounding the attacks and most doubt al qaeda had any involvement. But it would take me forever to gather links and post it here.

This is unadulterated stupidity.

[Pardalis]

Wow. Just wow. Geggy, you really are intellectually stunted. It's severely bad form to make all these claims without backing them up (yes, I know it's easier your way, but PLEASE try not to be so lazy.)

The worst thing about it is that geggy isn't just an isolated case of lunacy. This is widespread, it's an epidemic.:boggled:

[delphi_ote]

geggy:

If WTC7 was demolished, why was it done secretly when all the other heavily damaged buildings in the area were demolished out in the open?

Don't be silly. Cowardly conspiracy theorists like greggy won't answer devastating questions like this one.
:chicken::chicken::chicken::chicken::chicken:

[Gravy]

Well, I am surprised that geggy is still trolling here. This morning we had an exchange in which he said "trust me" and "this is no BS," and I showed him that he cannot be trusted and is full of BS, so I wondered what transformation he's been through since then.

Then I read this:
In every other bombings you've listed had weird anomalies surrounding the attacks and most doubt al qaeda had any involvement. But it would take me forever to gather links and post it here.

As for the wtc...I thought it might be interesting for you to know that the asbestos on first several floors of each world trade were extremely high in volume and posed a serious health threat. The leaseholder of the wtc was forced to either remove the asbestos or condemn the buildings. But he couldn't afford to shut down the wtc and struggled for years to find an interest party to take over the lease. So came along larry silverstein who took over the lease few weeks prior to sept 11. The twin towers became useful for staging the new pearl harbor. The possible deliberation of imploding both of the towers were to maximize shock and profit
It's one thing to be a troll, another to be a blithering idiot troll. Is there some sort of forum award for people like this?

Oh, I forgot, there are awards, over at "Conspiracy Theorists Say the Darndest Things." Well, I've got a few of geggy's posts to nominate. It's not the stupidity that bothers me, it's the aggressive, obnoxious stupidity, just like the Loosers. What a sad person.

[geggy]

I'm not sure if I understand the question but I'll try my best to answer it. Explosives may have been preplanted inside wtc7 prior to sept 11. Other buildings that were mauled by the collapsing of wtc 1 and 2 and didn't collapse had to be demolished because of the severe damages made to the buildings that is beyond unrepairable.

From post 2026

Maybe it's because I'm a francophone, but can you explain to me what the hell this is supposed to mean?

By citizens, would it include people who thought heard explosions in the WTC, and others who think they saw a missile hit the pentagon?


I missed another post. Jeez it's hard to keep up with all the questions.

What I meant was that sept 11 had major psychological impact on citizens who witnessed the chaotic and destructive act of terrorism that has generated widespread fear and distress. Usually when people are afraid, they tend to cling on higher authority expecting them to make them feel safe. When the frontal lobes of their brains are shut down that's caused by the feeling of fear and distress, their judgement becomes clouded and they will believe in anything that is said to them, especially by those who they expect to make them feel safe. The Bush administration were able to take full advantage of it and falsely assured them that they will go to afghanistan to "capture those who did the evil deeds" because he has the public full support. The homeland security created the five level terror alert level because now we know that an attack as massive as sept 11 could occur on america soil, we will become afraid everytime the alert is raised to elevated level to keep us bolted down with fear as the "war on terror" in the middle east continues. Now it's five years later, the frontal lobe are slowly opening up and the five level alert start to have less effect on us, it becomes more apparent and clear to us that the bush administration may have used sept 11 as a false pretext to invade afghanistan. Which is why propagandistic films relating to sept 11 like flight 93 and world trade center are coming around to remind us of why were fighting the "war on terror" in the middle east to prevent a terror attack on america soil to happen again. But it won't have any effect on us because we know the war on terror is a total farce. The wars that are fought in the middle east are based soley for their own interest.

[aggle-rithm]

I'm not sure if I understand the question but I'll try my best to answer it. Explosives may have been preplanted inside wtc7 prior to sept 11.

And monkeys may have flown out of my butt.



What I meant was that sept 11 had major psychological impact on citizens who witnessed the chaotic and destructive act of terrorism that has generated widespread fear and distress. Usually when people are afraid, they tend to cling on higher authority expecting them to make them feel safe. When the frontal lobes of their brains are shut down that's caused by the feeling of fear and distress, their judgement becomes clouded and they will believe in anything that is said to them, especially by those who they expect to make them feel safe. The Bush administration were able to take full advantage of it and falsely assured them that they will go to afghanistan to "capture those who did the evil deeds" because he has the public full support. The homeland security created the five level terror alert level because now we know that an attack as massive as sept 11 could occur on america soil, we will become afraid everytime the alert is raised to elevated level to keep us bolted down with fear as the "war on terror" in the middle east continues. Now it's five years later, the frontal lobe are slowly opening up and the five level alert start to have less effect on us, it becomes more apparent and clear to us that the bush administration may have used sept 11 as a false pretext to invade afghanistan. Which is why propagandistic films relating to sept 11 like flight 93 and world trade center are coming around to remind us of why were fighting the "war on terror" in the middle east to prevent a terror attack on america soil to happen again. But it won't have any effect on us because we know the war on terror is a total farce. The wars that are fought in the middle east are soley for their own interest.

Am I in the presence of the King of the Trolls?

Should I kneel?

[kookbreaker]

Am I in the presence of the King of the Trolls?

Should I kneel?

No. Spitting will suffice.

[geggy]

And monkeys may have flown out of my butt.



You missed the entire point. Buildings 3, 4, 5, and 6 that were meaningless and were demolished few days after sept 11 because they were severely damaged, a lot more than wtc7, by the collapsing of building 1 and 2 and didn't collapse.

WTC7, which housed several high ranking government agencies, only suffered 20 foot gaping hole in the south side of the building and had little fire on some floors, collapsed in a control demoliton manner on the same day as sept 11.

Right.

[CptColumbo]

You missed the entire point. Buildings 3, 4, 5, and 6 that were meaningless and were demolished few days after sept 11 because they were severely damaged, a lot more than wtc7, by the collapsing of building 1 and 2 and didn't collapse.

WTC7, which housed several high ranking government agencies, only suffered 20 foot gaping hole in the south side of the building and had little fire on some floors, collapsed in a control demoliton manner on the same day as sept 11.

Right.
You've missed our point. None of those buildings are the same. You cannot compare what happened to one to the others.

[Timothy]

Hey geggy,

They just started construction on the Freedom Tower.

You better get down there with a pair of binoculars so that you can watch "them" installing the explosive charges in the foundation. You'll need all that evidence a dozen years from now.

Clearly Bush et al need another national tragedy to pump up the nation for an invasion of Israel in 2018, and so "they" plan to down the Freedom Tower with those pre-concealed explosive charges. They'll be used to down the Tower an hour after the International Space Station crashes into it, brought down by Iranian enriched uranium stealth missles.

All that stuff you're following now? Already read it in The Onion.

- Timothy

[geggy]

Sure I can. WTC buildings 3, 4, 5 and 6 all have thinner steel columns than WTC7.

[geggy]

The onion is not a reputable news site as it is a comedy site...got it. ;)

[CptColumbo]

Sure I can. WTC buildings 3, 4, 5 and 6 all have thinner steel columns than WTC7.

According to whom?

Besides, that just reinforces my point. If true, that is only one of the millions of differences between these buildings. Not to mention the differences in the damage done to each.

[Pardalis]

What I meant was that sept 11 had major psychological impact on citizens who witnessed the chaotic and destructive act of terrorism that has generated widespread fear and distress. Usually when people are afraid, they tend to cling on higher authority expecting them to make them feel safe. When the frontal lobes of their brains are shut down that's caused by the feeling of fear and distress, their judgement becomes clouded and they will believe in anything that is said to them, especially by those who they expect to make them feel safe. The Bush administration were able to take full advantage of it and falsely assured them that they will go to afghanistan to "capture those who did the evil deeds" because he has the public full support. The homeland security created the five level terror alert level because now we know that an attack as massive as sept 11 could occur on america soil, we will become afraid everytime the alert is raised to elevated level to keep us bolted down with fear as the "war on terror" in the middle east continues. Now it's five years later, the frontal lobe are slowly opening up and the five level alert start to have less effect on us, it becomes more apparent and clear to us that the bush administration may have used sept 11 as a false pretext to invade afghanistan. Which is why propagandistic films relating to sept 11 like flight 93 and world trade center are coming around to remind us of why were fighting the "war on terror" in the middle east to prevent a terror attack on america soil to happen again. But it won't have any effect on us because we know the war on terror is a total farce. The wars that are fought in the middle east are based soley for their own interest.

WOAH!!!:eye-poppi :eye-poppi :eek: :eek: :eek: :jaw-dropp :jaw-dropp :jaw-dropp :boggled: :eye-poppi

[geggy]

George bush says thank you for not listening to me :P

[geggy]

Wow, these people are a special breed. If there were more of them in this world, maybe there wouldn't be so much violence and wars. If there is any goodness in this world, here it is.

Bless their hearts.

Did you even read the article? The woman said that she did extensive researching to get better understanding of what happened on sept 11 which is understandable because she lost someone and she is seriously interested in finding out what really happened to him. She then came to a conclusion that moussaoui may have been part of the conspiracy yet he is the wrong guy to be on trial. Meaning she wants someone who had deeper involvement with the planning of the operation to be put on trial. Who? Can't say cuz she didn't say. Since it wasn't mentioned in the article, could it be someone from the us government?

[Pardalis]

Did you even read the article? The woman said that she did extensive researching to get better understanding of what happened on sept 11 which is understandable because she lost someone and she is seriously interested in finding out what really happened to him. She then came to a conclusion that moussaoui may have been part of the conspiracy yet he is the wrong guy to be on trial. Meaning she wants someone who had deeper involvement with the planning of the operation to be put on trial. Who? Can't say cuz she didn't say. Since it wasn't mentioned in the article, could it be someone from the us government?

What the f** are you talking about? I was just praising the good heartendness of these families willing to forgive him so that no more blood should be spread. If I was in their place I could never do that.

[delphi_ote]

Did you even read the article? The woman said that she did extensive researching to get better understanding of what happened on sept 11 which is understandable because she lost someone and she is seriously interested in finding out what really happened to him. She then came to a conclusion that moussaoui may have been part of the conspiracy yet he is the wrong guy to be on trial. Meaning she wants someone who had deeper involvement with the planning of the operation to be put on trial. Who? Can't say cuz she didn't say. Since it wasn't mentioned in the article, could it be someone from the us government?
Take your meds, dude.

[Gravy]

Before the internet, trolls had to wait under bridges for people to come to them. Now they take their bridges with them. (http://www.tprco.com/trench_bridge.htm)

[Gravy]

WTC7, which housed several high ranking government agencies, only suffered 20 foot gaping hole in the south side of the building and had little fire on some floors, collapsed in a control demoliton manner on the same day as sept 11.

Right.
FDNY Chief Nigro:
"The biggest decision we had to make was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged [WTC 7] building. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building’s integrity was in serious doubt.” [Fire Engineering, 10/2002]
geggy's "little fire on some floors" at WTC 7.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/8790445453f65fbab.jpg
What a blazing moron.

[Pardalis]

Don't forget this piece of video posted a while back by you Gravy:

http://911myths.com/WTC7_Smoke.avi

[Gravy]

Don't forget this piece of video posted a while back by you Gravy:

http://911myths.com/WTC7_Smoke.avi

Yeah, that still I posted is also from a video, one that the CTers would NEVER show, because it has a much clearer view of the smoke billowing from nearly every visible floor.

I went over to the LC forum to day to get some perspective. As bad as gaggy is, it could be worse. This from "izzy>"
Both Lisa and Todd Beamer were likely fictiticous, and I cannot see the one that played "Lisa" being allowed to live for long, for she was a liability. Lived only long enough to get the foundation started. There was a partner listed. But nothing like a heroic tale to loosen the pursestrings.

It seems clear that the perps that did this 9/11 hoax, doesn't really care whether their claims or fable checks out any more , for they are satisfied with the melodramas that as long as they control the media, no one can get "in" to call them for the liars that they are.

As a reminder, most all of the cellphone calls, which we know were totally impossible, came from the flt 93, and there was no physical evidence of any sort of any flt 93 crashing at Shanksville..

[Pardalis]

Both Lisa and Todd Beamer were likely fictiticous, and I cannot see the one that played "Lisa" being allowed to live for long, for she was a liability. Lived only long enough to get the foundation started. There was a partner listed. But nothing like a heroic tale to loosen the pursestrings.

Tabarnak!:jaw-dropp

[Gravy]

Tabarnak!:jaw-dropp
Although I'm 1/4 French-Canadian, I had to look that one up! :D

[Ramooone]

WTC7, which housed several high ranking government agencies, only suffered 20 foot gaping hole in the south side of the building and had little fire on some floors, collapsed in a control demoliton manner on the same day as sept 11.

Right.

i believe you mean a 20 STORY gaping hole, not 20 ft idiot.

[hellaeon]

arghh these CTers are so annoying.

Its an amazing psychological thing. Religious.

[aggle-rithm]

You missed the entire point.



No, I got the point, troll.

Goodbye.

[aggle-rithm]

George bush says thank you for not listening to me :P

One last thing, geggy, before I leave you to your residence beneath the bridge:

If GW Bush is such a criminal mastermind, why didn't he manufacture a discovery of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? How did he do everything so perfectly in justifying a war beforehand, then FORGET to come up with the goods at the end?

Planting WMD in Iraq, a war-torn and disorganized country, would be child's play compared to planting explosives in three huge buildings in the middle of NYC's central business district without anyone knowing. And, since he had a stranglehold on the global media, no one was in a position to tell on him, were they?

I await the sound of crickets chirping.

[Garrette]

If GW Bush is such a criminal mastermind, why didn't he manufacture a discovery of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? How did he do everything so perfectly in justifying a war beforehand, then FORGET to come up with the goods at the end?We used to joke about this when I was in Iraq.

Man, if I was president I would have called up Dow Chemical: "Ya know that whole breast implant fiasco we screwed you on with no real evidence? We can fix that. I just need some stuff to show up overseas in a few spots. Think you can handle it?

[aggle-rithm]

We used to joke about this when I was in Iraq.

Man, if I was president I would have called up Dow Chemical: "Ya know that whole breast implant fiasco we screwed you on with no real evidence? We can fix that. I just need some stuff to show up overseas in a few spots. Think you can handle it?

Headline:

SADDAM FOUND TO BE STOCKPILING HUGE MOUNDS OF SILICONE

[NoZed Avenger]

Headline:

SADDAM FOUND TO BE STOCKPILING HUGE MOUNDS OF SILICONE


They were going to plant Pamela Anderson in Iraq ?!!!!?!?!?!!

[Curnir]

Headline:

SADDAM FOUND TO BE STOCKPILING HUGE MOUNDS OF SILICONE

Massive amounts of rawmaterials for cyberwarfare?

[delphi_ote]

One last thing, geggy, before I leave you to your residence beneath the bridge:

If GW Bush is such a criminal mastermind, why didn't he manufacture a discovery of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? How did he do everything so perfectly in justifying a war beforehand, then FORGET to come up with the goods at the end?

Planting WMD in Iraq, a war-torn and disorganized country, would be child's play compared to planting explosives in three huge buildings in the middle of NYC's central business district without anyone knowing. And, since he had a stranglehold on the global media, no one was in a position to tell on him, were they?

I await the sound of crickets chirping.
Better question: why weren't any of the hijackers from Iraq? Seems like a pretty stupid plan if your goal was to bolster support for a war in Iraq.

[aggle-rithm]

Better question: why weren't any of the hijackers from Iraq? Seems like a pretty stupid plan if your goal was to bolster support for a war in Iraq.


No Iraqis answered the classified ad.

[geggy]

It wasn't the silicones, jerks, it was the twinkies. All they had to do was cook up documents showing that Saddam had bought some twinkies in Nigeria. Numerous CIA agents went to Iraq to investigate to see if there were any twinkies inside the so called nookular plants in Iraq. Apparently there were none found and agents had already informed the white house that there were no nookular twinkies found. But the white house ignored the claims and continued to hype up saddam that he was a threat and he had WMDs. The real reason the white house found saddam to be a threat was because he turned his back to the white house after they've requested him not to open up the oil bourse and sell them in euro price that could "instablize" the US economy. Talk about weapon of mass deception. Now that saddam has been taken out of power by the white house, they're currently working on installing another puppet regime into the Iraqi government.

They're currently using the exact same tactics with Iran as they did before dropping bombs on Iraq. It's no surprise that the white house and Israel are painting the president of Iran as an evil dictator and giving the public a distorted view of who he is just because he's threatening to open up the oil bourse and sell them in euro price. They're currently going through a psychological warfare. If the Iran prez don't cooperate with the white house, the white house will shake them up by threatening to nuke Iran.

911myths suck for not clarifying how the fire got started in WTC7 and explain the free fall speed of the collapse.

Try to compare both sides of argument before you decide who's made more valid points, you one dimensional a..clown.

http://www.wtc7.net/articles/FEMA/WTC_ch5.htm

[Pardalis]

Now YOU'RE missing the point geggy.

[Pardalis]

It's no surprise that the white house and Israel are painting the president of Iran as an evil dictator and giving the public a distorted view of who he is

Yeah, you're right, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a good man... NOT!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10460807

You f**

[delphi_ote]

free fall speed of the collapse[/url]
NONE OF THESE BUILDINGS FELL AT FREE FALL!

That implies none of the kenetic energy was absorbed by the building itself as the structure collapsed, which is a very stupid thing to say.

[geggy]

I'm not saying mahmoud is a good man. He's crazy, but he's just not what the US and Israel paint him to be.

Ok ok wtc7 didn't fall at free fall. It fell at 6.6 second, .6 short to consider it as free fall.

[Pardalis]

I'm not saying mahmoud is a good man. He's crazy, but he's just not what the US and Israel paint him to be.

???????????

[kookbreaker]

I'm not saying mahmoud is a good man. He's crazy, but he's just not what the US and Israel paint him to be.

Ok ok wtc7 didn't fall at free fall. It fell at 6.6 second, .6 short to consider it as free fall.

To get a 6.6 seconds figure you have to ignore the collapse of the penthouses and the sagging of the structure well before the obvious collapse starts.

And again, how did you expect the building to fall. Please show your work.

[Garrette]

And again, how did you expect the building to fall. Please show your workHe expected it to fall in any manner whatsoever.

Any type of fall could and would be twisted to fit a CT.

[delphi_ote]

Ok ok wtc7 didn't fall at free fall. It fell at 6.6 second, .6 short to consider it as free fall.
So why would this be different if the collapse was caused by fire rather than explosives?

[geggy]

???????????

Ya don't get it. Like the US, Iran signed a treaty to have a right to bear nookular arms. Uranium used for nookular weapons would need to be enriched in nookular plant at 90 percent. Iran is currently at 3 percent, meaning they are tenths of hundreds of years away from possessing nookular weapons. So the US and Israel are hyping up the Iran prez's threat to paint him as crazier than he already is.

Again for the 80th time, go to this link, click on "detonate" and looook veeeery clooosely to the way it collapsed.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/building-implosion1.htm

I doubt the fire was even that hot enough to bring down wtc7. By the way how did the fire ever get started in WTC7? Does anyone have a good link to explain that?

[kookbreaker]

Again for the 80th time, go to this link, click on "detonate" and looook veeeery clooosely to the way it collapsed.


And? Once again I ask how did you expect WTC7 to collapse.


I doubt the fire was even that hot enough to bring down wtc7.


It burned for seven hours completely uncontrolled. Evidence has shown that burning office materials are more than sufficient to cause structural problems for even intact buildings. Study the Meridian fire in Philadelphia sometime and learn something real for a change.


By the way how did the fire ever get started in WTC7? Does anyone have a good link to explain that?

Golly. Cuz nothing says 'fireproof' like thousands of tons of burning debris falling on you.

[money]

Seriously... this seems like some sort of a role-playing game to these CT'ers.

People like Delphi, Gravy, Kookbreaker, etc are just NPC's. CT'er only have to listen to the NPC's info in order to figure out how to solve the puzzle which opens the portal to the land of Logic and Reason, but instead the CT'ers just keep banging on it with their Rambling rusty dagger of Incoherency. Pretty soon, Geggy will limp back to wherever he came from once he tires of getting his butt kicked, as his shield of "Argument from Ignorance" and armour of "Common Sense Tells Me..." are insufficient for high level adventuring.

Of course, another brash young adventurer will take his place eventually.

(By the way, you guys have done an incredible job researching this, and shown a lot of patience with the ever-revolving door of stupidity. Much like Brownie, you're doing a heckuva job.)

[Gravy]

People like Delphi, Gravy, Kookbreaker, etc are just NPC's.
Non Permissive of Conspiracists?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Non Permissive of Conspiracists?

Non-Player Characters. Puppets of the game-master (the NWO in this case) of which the CT's (PC's (Player-Characters)) must defeat in order to save the world. (borrowing terms from Role-Playing Games)

[money]

Non Permissive of Conspiracists?

Non-Player Characters. The characters you walk up to in a game an they can only say something about needing the magic flute to put the golem to sleep. Or whatever. It's hardly a perfect analogy...

[Gravy]

Non-Player Characters
Thanks, Arkan.

geggy, don't be a non-playa hatea.

[Pardalis]

So the US and Israel are hyping up the Iran prez's threat to paint him as crazier than he already is.

So it's perfectly logical to you to let a confirmed madman get his hands on nuclear technology?:confused:

[brodski]

It's hardly a perfect analogy...
I thought it was pretty darn good. It made me laugh at any rate. :D

[Pardalis]

So the US and Israel are hyping up the Iran prez's threat to paint him as crazier than he already is.

Better yet, how crazy should a head of state get before the international commity should start to worry?

Is your frontal lobe alright geggy?

[brodski]

It's hardly a perfect analogy...
I thought it was pretty darn good. It made me laugh at any rate. :D

[delphi_ote]

Seriously... this seems like some sort of a role-playing game to these CT'ers.

People like Delphi, Gravy, Kookbreaker, etc are just NPC's. CT'er only have to listen to the NPC's info in order to figure out how to solve the puzzle which opens the portal to the land of Logic and Reason, but instead the CT'ers just keep banging on it with their Rambling rusty dagger of Incoherency. Pretty soon, Geggy will limp back to wherever he came from once he tires of getting his butt kicked, as his shield of "Argument from Ignorance" and armour of "Common Sense Tells Me..." are insufficient for high level adventuring.

Of course, another brash young adventurer will take his place eventually.

(By the way, you guys have done an incredible job researching this, and shown a lot of patience with the ever-revolving door of stupidity. Much like Brownie, you're doing a heckuva job.)
I think their quest is more along the lines of, "How can I rationalize the questions the NPCs keep repeating?" At first they deny the existence of the questions. Then they try re-directing the conversation with some non sequiturs. Eventually they just add another layer of BS to their theory and the process starts all over again.

[Mongrel]

Ya don't get it. Like the US, Iran signed a treaty to have a right to bear nookular arms. Uranium used for nookular weapons would need to be enriched in nookular plant at 90 percent. Iran is currently at 3 percent, meaning they are tenths of hundreds of years away from possessing nookular weapons. So the US and Israel are hyping up the Iran prez's threat to paint him as crazier than he already is.

Again for the 80th time, go to this link, click on "detonate" and looook veeeery clooosely to the way it collapsed.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/building-implosion1.htm

I doubt the fire was even that hot enough to bring down wtc7. By the way how did the fire ever get started in WTC7? Does anyone have a good link to explain that?


And yet you ignore the picture on the second page (http://science.howstuffworks.com/building-implosion2.htm) labelled "Columns are fully loaded with explosives and hooked up to blasting caps and fuses.". Don't you think people would of noticed that little spider web?

[Pardalis]

And yet you ignore the picture on the second page (http://science.howstuffworks.com/building-implosion2.htm) labelled "Columns are fully loaded with explosives and hooked up to blasting caps and fuses.". Don't you think people would of noticed that little spider web?

geggy wants us to believe that during the week-end long power down of the WTC, not only did "they" have time to rig everything up, in all three buildings, but also had time to cover everything before the next buisiness morning.

Or that "they" might have paid everyone working in the WTC buildings to keep questions to themselves about the wiring surrounding them.

Or that maybe the charges were remote controlled and didn't require wiring.

[Polaris]

They were going to plant Pamela Anderson in Iraq ?!!!!?!?!?!!

Come on, the desert's dry enough as it is!

[pgwenthold]

geggy wants us to believe that during the week-end long power down of the WTC, not only did "they" have time to rig everything up, in all three buildings, but also had time to cover everything before the next buisiness morning.

Despite the fact that the "weekend long power down of the WTC" was only in one building (WTC2, IIRC), and they still got WTC 1 and 7 wired.

[Gravy]

Despite the fact that the "weekend long power down of the WTC" was only in one building (WTC2, IIRC), and they still got WTC 1 and 7 wired.
And only in part of WTC2. And the cable upgrades were successfully done, so the work crew had to include the networking experts plus the demolitions crew. And then there's the repair and cleanup...

The more you think about it, the more sense it makes!

[pgwenthold]

And only in part of WTC2. And the cable upgrades were successfully done, so the work crew had to include the networking experts plus the demolitions crew. And then there's the repair and cleanup...

The more you think about it, the more sense it makes!

In line of what I said back in post 1898, I think, let me add "the towers could have been wired during the weekend long power outage" as another deception perpetrated by the CTers of the type that you won't find in the conventional explanation.

I could understand it if you just heard it, but you would think that anyone who does a little bit of work would recognize immediately how bogus it is. Thus, to perpetuate the nonsense requires that you are either just parroting others without any consideration of the facts, or you are a lying sack of snot, neither of which says much about the CTers quest for truth.

An honest person who claims to have "seen Loose Change and thinks it raises some interesting questions" might, after seeing that some are so blatent false, start to question the rest of what they say. Instead, our current respondant more or less just ignores it and goes on to the next. Unless it is so blatently bad that he says he is going to check back in with the CTers to see how they respond, but then again, ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist.

[Ramooone]

this has got to be one of the funniest threads i have read on the loose change forum.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3167

they have completely lost their minds.

[Curnir]

this has got to be one of the funniest threads i have read on the loose change forum.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3167

they have completely lost their minds.

Oh my.

Yeah I could make a nice 'blocked' list by enabling a program like peerguardian and try to surf to sites like www.polisen.se, www.cia.gov etc...
*sigh*

[delphi_ote]

i woke my parents up at 2.30 and told my mom as much as possible...
:dl::dl::dl:

ETA I suddenly feel like sending them packets withs poofed IPs... ;)

[geggy]

And? Once again I ask how did you expect WTC7 to collapse.

I didn't answer because I don't think it would have collapsed.

It burned for seven hours completely uncontrolled. Evidence has shown that burning office materials are more than sufficient to cause structural problems for even intact buildings. Study the Meridian fire in Philadelphia sometime and learn something real for a change.

I already did and it's right here. Didn't say anything about collapsing.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html

Plus, 9th to 19th floor of a wtc tower burned for 3 hours and the temperture reached at 700 degrees C in 1975 and yet it didn't collapse.

http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/wtc/WTC_apndxA.htm

So what ya talking about?

Golly. Cuz nothing says 'fireproof' like thousands of tons of burning debris falling on you.

There was no visible flaming debris falling from the towers so what ya talking about?

[Gravy]

i've let my mom and dad and uncle know if anything happens to me to come here and get the word out.

But what if "the Man" has gotten to THEM?? And what if the cat isn't really a cat, but an autonomous house-based CIA surveillance mammaloid??? STOP STARING AT ME!

This is too much fun.

[Gravy]

btw: "FinalStrike's" avatar isn't a picture of him. It's some "Loose Change" debunker that he's mocking!

[Gravy]

Plus, 9th to 19th floor of a wtc tower burned for 3 hours and the temperture reached at 700 degrees C in 1975 and yet it didn't collapse.
Wrong again, O fixéd star of foolishness! Only the 11th floor had significant fire damage. It was a 3-alarm fire, and the fire department had full access to it.

Can't you get anything right, even by accident? CTers like to talk about the "odds" of things on 9/11. What are the odds that geggy would get EVERYTHING wrong? He hasn't been right in a single encounter I've had with him. And he keeps coming back! Like I said, this is too much fun.

[geggy]

Wrong again, O fixéd star of foolishness! Only the 11th floor had significant fire damage. It was a 3-alarm fire, and the fire department had full access to it.

Can't you get anything right, even by accident? CTers like to talk about the "odds" of things on 9/11. What are the odds that geggy would get EVERYTHING wrong? He hasn't been right in a single encounter I've had with him. And he keeps coming back! Like I said, this is too much fun.

Right, intense fire burning at 700 degree C on 11th floor with small fire that's spreaded from 9th to 19th floor with the rest of the top of 90 stories weighing down on the affected area.

By the way do you have any good link on what may have started the fires in WTC7 that I should check out?

[Regnad Kcin]

It's become readily apparent that our little friend has no interest in debate, but simply wants to play "Dueling Links."

[geggy]

I'm willing to have a debate on what may have started the fire in wtc7 if you provide me the link...

[CptColumbo]

By the way do you have any good link on what may have started the fires in WTC7 that I should check out?
I don't have a good link (I'm on dial-up) to why, but I'm willing to bet it comes from the explosions and flaming wreckage that occured when the planes hit the towers.

[geggy]

Look bucko you really don't want to goad me into sept 11 debate, I will wax your official story believin arse and make you want butt sex...

[kookbreaker]

I didn't answer because I don't think it would have collapsed.


There's your problem.


I already did and it's right here. Didn't say anything about collapsing.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html


This is where you are an idiot. You get your information solely from conspiracy websites without seeing what actually took place.

The Meridian fire was a dang near thing. The fire nearly resulted in a collapse, and the only reason that the fire did not cause collapse is that the fire was fought (unlike WTC7) and the sprinkler system reactivated. The PFD abandoned the firefighting effort since there were indications that the building was going to collapse.

Neverthless, the Meridian fire was as close to collapse by fire as we've come in the USA. Once the fire was out, the building was wrapped in a hideous netting to prevent not only falling objects, but in the event that the building would actually collapse anyway.

Ask your conspiracy websites where the Meridian Building is today. Go on, ask them. Never mind, I'll tell you.

Insurance companies hoped to repair the Meridian. After much legal wrangling a structural engineer was sent in to inspect the building. He basicly wrote the report that in short said: "No freaking way". The building was condemned (despite legal wrangling by the insurance company that result in them being fined). The engineer basicly stated that he was afraid to even be in the building. That's how close it came to collapsing. That is with 11 hours of firefighting. That is with the firefighting system intact (such as it was in 1991), that is without damage to the structure. Advantages that WTC7 never had.

These are details you won't find on your conspiracy websites. Because all they say is 'Still standing, hah!', never mind that the Merdian had to be brought down with an external crane as tall as the building itself designed to take parts off the top like you were unbuilding a house of cards. But its 'still standing' is the lie of ommission you hear from the WTC crowd.



Plus, 9th to 19th floor of a wtc tower burned for 3 hours and the temperture reached at 700 degrees C in 1975 and yet it didn't collapse.


That fire was fought, that fire faced an intact fire prevention system. If that fire was in one of the main towers, they faced thicker structural systems since they were on lower floors. These are advantages the building had in its defense. Ones it did not have on 9/11.


There was no visible flaming debris falling from the towers so what ya talking about?

You can see through all that debris? How interesting. Most of us couldn't. But that fire was still burning when the tower collapsed. Do you think fire just goes away becuase the towers fall?

[kookbreaker]

Look bucko you really don't want to goad me into sept 11 debate, I will wax your official story believin arse and make you want butt sex...

Oh please. Don't make us laugh. You've all but run crying and spraying irrelevant links and that is all you can do. You've pretended that asking questions is the same as evidence and you deliberately ignored evidence that was put right in front of you. All of your links are from biased conspiracy sites and your fiasco of claiming that you researched the Meridian fire proves just that.

Just insulting the 'official story' does not make for 'debate' .

[hellaeon]

this has got to be one of the funniest threads i have read on the loose change forum.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3167

they have completely lost their minds.

:jaw-dropp

[Gravy]

Right, intense fire burning at 700 degree C on 11th floor with small fire that's spreaded from 9th to 19th floor with the rest of the top of 90 stories weighing down on the affected area.

By the way do you have any good link on what may have started the fires in WTC7 that I should check out?
Wrong yet again, my fixéd and ever-shining light of ignorance. The fire burned on part of the 11th floor. It never left the concrete cable shaft on any other floors. It did not spread "from the 9th to the 19th floor."

That said, geggy, can you think of any other differences between the 1975 fire and the incidents on 9/11?

You may have to think real hard for this one.

You keep avoiding facts by jumping from subject to subject. Let's just focus on this one thing, and get that resolved before moving on, okay? Just focus on this, and when we finish it, we'll move on to the next thing. That way you can learn things.

So, since you brought it up, please tell me what differences you can think of between the 1975 fire and the incidents on 9/11. Making a list might be helpful. How about just limiting it to five items. That's not too hard, right?

[Regnad Kcin]

Little friend, here's hoping (as I have for others similarly involved) you make this issue your life's work. Sincerely, will you embrace 9/11 and dedicate yourself day and night for as long as it takes, even if it's forever? Please do.

You say you're, what, 29? So you've got something along the lines of fifty years left. Fifty years you can spend posting your links and sharing your home-made videos with the few who will listen. Five decades of frustration and anxiety as you cry out again and again, "Free fall! WTC7! Squibs!"

Then when you are lying, dying in a hospital bed, surrounded by however many friends and family you manage to acquire and maintain gathered to say their goodbyes, look them in the eyes, each one, and try to reconcile how you gave them all the finger with your immersion in your sad, sad game for all those years.

Imagine that. Do it.

You're wedded to a myth. A myth. Not even a good one, like some can be. And it certainly isn't a good conspiracy theory. That you imagine there is anything to debate in the first place only means that whoever handed you a high school diploma needs to be brought up on charges for being an accessory to dumb.

People are b****-slapping you in this thread. People are laughing at you in this thread. This forum is a kind of restaurant where critical thinkers are used to feasting on pate, truffles, and filet mignon. In you stumble and bounce from table to table trying to share your bag of Cheetos and you wanna know why people won't bite?

But you just keep on munching that "nourishing" snack. Eat 'em day in and day out and maybe you'll get to your final hospital bed earlier than predicted. And when you wheeze your last, those left behind will frown, shake their heads, and say...

I never thought he'd shut the hell up.

[Gravy]

There was no visible flaming debris falling from the towers so what ya talking about?

You mean like a firefall of molten metal?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/879044556cb143017.jpg

Wrong again, my ever-fixéd fool.

How does it feel?

[Dr Adequate]

Look bucko you really don't want to goad me into sept 11 debate, I will wax your official story believin arse and make you want butt sex... And I have asked you again and again for such a debate and you have run away like a frightened little girl.

[Gravy]

Little friend...[/i]

Nominated.

[Dr Adequate]

nookular ... nookular .... nookular Look, surely geggy's just one of those socially handicapped halfwits who get their kicks out of being stupid in public?

Exhibitionism, I think it's called.

I mean, how else do we explain his behavior?

[aggle-rithm]

Look, surely geggy's just one of those socially handicapped halfwits who get their kicks out of being stupid in public?

Exhibitionism, I think it's called.

I mean, how else do we explain his behavior?

Munchausen by sock-puppet?

[Gravy]

Munchausen by sock-puppet?
:D:D:D

[Pardalis]

Look bucko you really don't want to goad me into sept 11 debate, I will wax your official story believin arse and make you want butt sex...

Is this a proposal? Your way of saying "Me love you long time" geggy?

[Pardalis]

I already did and it's right here. Didn't say anything about collapsing.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html

Plus, 9th to 19th floor of a wtc tower burned for 3 hours and the temperture reached at 700 degrees C in 1975 and yet it didn't collapse.

http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/wtc/WTC_apndxA.htm

So what ya talking about?

None of these buildings had two 100 stories towers collapse right next to them.

[Stellafane]

Geggy, I wasn't going to post anymore in this thread, basically because there's no real point -- you stopped making sense long ago, and now you're no more coherent than a barking dog. But I've just been watching "Inside 9/11" on the National Geographic Channel. And in doing so, I was freshly reminded of all the destruction that happened that day -- the unspeakable tragedy, the sadness, the terror, the feats of heroism far beyond anything I could personally perform. And then I thought of you and your fellow CT'ers, smearing your own feces all over the memories of the victims and calling it the "truth."

How you can say and believe the things you do defies my ability to comprehend. I would ask if you have any empathy or sympathy at all for the victims and their families, but of course you don't, do you? To them, they aren't even real -- they're just another imaginary part of the role-playing game you call your life. This isn't about them, it's about you and your miserable attempt to bring some false sense of significance and importance into your murky little world, and those of your fellow nonentities. One or two other posters seem to indicate they think you might be a terrorist, but I actually think your're something even worse. At least terrorists, in their murderous, twisted, perverted way, believe they stand for something. But you don't stand of anything at all; you're just the terrorists' streetwalker.

I'm at a loss of words to express my disgust for what you are doing. My only hope is that this is some sort of phase, and whatever it is you next fasten on as your "cause" isn't so offensively stupid and misguided.

[CptColumbo]

Look bucko you really don't want to goad me into sept 11 debate, I will wax your official story believin arse and make you want butt sex...
I'm not entirely convinced you understand what a debate is. Let alone how to do it.

[Pardalis]

I'm not entirely convinced you understand what a debate is. Let alone how to do it.

He sure seems to know alot about how to do other things...

I will wax your official story believin arse and make you want butt sex...

kinky geggy

[Belz...]

Yeah I'm starting now to see why Bush administration is getting away with it...

You're just fitting everything you hear into your pre-conceived theory.

Once I started to see the light that sept 11 was an inside job, everything became much clearer.

Doesn't make it true, of course.

Aahahaha of course they would push the loose change article on top of the USA today website. That is wide opened propaganda. Either they're trying to demonize and discredit the sept 11 movement or they're giving out subtle hints that you should check out the film and do your own research.

So, either way, you win.

-Mountain of forewarnings (fact)
-PNAC think tank created and claimed they needed a "catalyzing event like a new pearl harbor." as a pretext for invading the M.E. to meet with their agenda (fact)
-Rumsfeld changed NORAD policy that in case of an emergency, only Rummy can give orders to deploy fighter jets (fact)
-NSA spying prior to sept 11 (fact)
-even more forewarnings (fact)
-numerous wargame exercises were performed. WTC and pentagon were several practice targets (fact)
-Silverstein signed a $3.2 bil lease to WTC in the summer prior to sept 11 (fact)
-insider tradings prior to sept 11. AA and UA airliners stocks massively sold. (fact)
-New york city alert level heightened few days prior to sept 11 (fact)
-wargame exercises began as scheduled in morning of sept 11 (fact)
-north tower attacked
-bush arrived booker school (fact)
-south tower attacked
-bush told about 2nd attack, continued to read my pet goat (fact)
-pentagon attacked 45 minutes after the 2nd wtc attacked without any fighter jets deployed to protect DC (fact)
-south tower collapsed
-north tower collapsed
-fighter jets deployed to look after flight 93 with still no fighter jets deployed to protect DC (fact)
-Rummy laid out plans to attack Iraq in the same day (fact)
-flight 93 crashed?
-bin Laden named the culprit later in the same day with no evidence shown (fact)
-WTC7 collapsed
-bin Laden denies involvement in front of a video camera (fact)
-Bush claimed the attack came as a surprise (fact)
-bin Laden denies involvement for 2nd time in front of a video camera (fact)
-top government officials all over the world asked US for evidence pointing bin Laden as the culprit (fact)
-FBI were told to put halt on investigation on Oct 10, 2001 (fact)
-bin Laden's most wanted record in fbi.gov website updated in nov 2001, with nothing said about sept 11 (fact)
-US invaded afghanistan (fact)
-In the following dec, videotape of bin Laden discussing his successful terror operation released, but it was clearly not bin Laden, the videotape was the only supposedly evidence (fact)
-no one working for intelligence agency fired, some promoted and received medals (fact)
-several supposedly hijackers reportedly shown up alive and claimed their innocence (fact)
-Bush obstructed independant investigation for next 3 years, angering some families of victims (fact)
-9/11 commission report released in 2004
-After appealling twice, Silverstein finally granted insurance claims. Twin towers attack considered as two seperate incidents, in which he received nearly two times larger than what he originally asked for. (fact)
-Moussaoui, the only sept 11 suspect, trial finally begins 5 years later (fact)
-bin Laden still not captured (fact)
-NIST misses deadline twice as to their conclusion of why WTC7 collapsed (fact)

Irrelevant as usual. I can name a bunch of facts that happened in Canada, that day. Doesn't mean they had anything to do with a controlled demolition.

You're right about the plane that sliced through the top portion and weakened the area of the impact. But do you think it might be possible that explosives could be preplanted underneath the impact to weaken/cut supports as it explodes to allow the building collapse to it's footprint?

Do you think it might be possible that Steven Seagal infiltrated the building and cut the support beams with his bare hands ? In the context of his better movies, possible, but not necessary. Occam's Razor and all.

Anyone with a brain knows the Bush administration was complicit in the attacks...

No true scottsman fallacy.

[Belz...]

Al Qaeda was not involved with the london bombing: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,,1750279,00.html

In every other bombings you've listed had weird anomalies surrounding the attacks and most doubt al qaeda had any involvement.

Wow! So Al Qaeda is NOT a terrorist organisation as has NEVER bombed anyone. What do they do all day, then ? Raise bunnies ?

As for the wtc...I thought it might be interesting for you to know that the asbestos on first several floors of each world trade were extremely high in volume and posed a serious health threat. The leaseholder of the wtc was forced to either remove the asbestos or condemn the buildings. But he couldn't afford to shut down the wtc and struggled for years to find an interest party to take over the lease. So came along larry silverstein who took over the lease few weeks prior to sept 11. The twin towers became useful for staging the new pearl harbor. The possible deliberation of imploding both of the towers were to maximize shock and profit.

Speculation. That's not sufficient motive for mass-murder.

Wtc buildings 3, 4, 5 and 6 all were demolished few days later by demolition crew.

Yes, but they fell in a demolition-style manner, did they not ? CONSPIRACY!!

I'm not sure if I understand the question but I'll try my best to answer it. Explosives may have been preplanted inside wtc7 prior to sept 11. Other buildings that were mauled by the collapsing of wtc 1 and 2 and didn't collapse had to be demolished because of the severe damages made to the buildings that is beyond unrepairable.

Uh huh.

Usually when people are afraid, they tend to cling on higher authority expecting them to make them feel safe. When the frontal lobes of their brains are shut down that's caused by the feeling of fear and distress, their judgement becomes clouded and they will believe in anything that is said to them, especially by those who they expect to make them feel safe.

Bla bla bla bla bla. You're out of fuel, Gaggy. Get a life.

The Bush administration were able to take full advantage of it and falsely assured them that they will go to afghanistan to "capture those who did the evil deeds" because he has the public full support.

Which in no way proves that they had anything to do with it, as mentionned before.

Your logical skills are non-existent.

WTC7, which housed several high ranking government agencies, only suffered 20 foot gaping hole in the south side of the building and had little fire on some floors, collapsed in a control demoliton manner on the same day as sept 11.

Wow. I mean, those conspirators truly are monstrously stupid. I mean, If I wanted to destroy a building and blame terrorists, I wouldn't do it in a way that seems CONTROLLED.

Idiot.

[gruk]

Look bucko you really don't want to goad me into sept 11 debate, I will wax your official story believin arse and make you want butt sex...

So you are saying that the truth about 9/11 is an insidious conspiracy masterminded by the Straight Mafia? Or was it the other way around? It's so hard to keep these conspiracies separated, you know.

[Pardalis]

Wow. I mean, those conspirators truly are monstrously stupid. I mean, If I wanted to destroy a building and blame terrorists, I wouldn't do it in a way that seems CONTROLLED.Idiot.

Belz has got a point there. Why didn't they jut let the buildings fall sideways and kill even more people? With 30 000 people dead, there wouldn't be anyone against the war on Iraq.

[chipmunk stew]

Cognitive dissonance in action:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3238&view=findpost&p=3994157

This Looser reads the Eagar JOM article, which shakes his faith a bit. But rather than pursuing it further, he appeals to his fellow Loosers to help convince him that it's BS to help restore his "peace of mind"!

He looked into the light of reason, and in spite of his instincts he turned away.

[Belz...]

It's no surprise that the white house and Israel are painting the president of Iran as an evil dictator and giving the public a distorted view of who he is just because he's threatening to open up the oil bourse and sell them in euro price.

Yes, Saddam was a mild, kind-hearted dictator who had the best interest of his people, whom he loved passionately, at heart.

Uranium used for nookular weapons would need to be enriched in nookular plant at 90 percent. Iran is currently at 3 percent, meaning they are tenths of hundreds of years away from possessing nookular weapons.

Based on a very professional calculation of the rate at which they'll be enriching their uranium, I'm sure. :rolleyes:

I doubt the fire was even that hot enough to bring down wtc7.

I know you do. You just don't have a reason to doubt it.

[geggy]

You mean like a firefall of molten metal?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/879044556cb143017.jpg

Wrong again, my ever-fixéd fool.

How does it feel?


Hey thanks for providing even more evidence that there were molten steel in WTC. I've never seen that picture before. I'm having hard times debating with people because most of the people here are full of contradictions. You said there was no molten steel in the past now youre showing me a picture of molten steel. How am I supposed to take you seriously? By the way do you really think that look anything like burning fuel? Sure as hell look a lot like thermite liquid pouring over.

By the way how come you havent provided a link as to how WTC7 fire got started?

Kookbreaker, i'll have to get back to you on that. I only provided that link for you to analyze other major building fires that's occured in the past...

[geggy]

Geggy, I wasn't going to post anymore in this thread, basically because there's no real point -- you stopped making sense long ago, and now you're no more coherent than a barking dog. But I've just been watching "Inside 9/11" on the National Geographic Channel. And in doing so, I was freshly reminded of all the destruction that happened that day -- the unspeakable tragedy, the sadness, the terror, the feats of heroism far beyond anything I could personally perform. And then I thought of you and your fellow CT'ers, smearing your own feces all over the memories of the victims and calling it the "truth."


Interestingly you would bring up national geographic. The editor of the magazine who is a female, she herself is an asset to the CIA. Can't remember what exactly her name was. I'm only trying to firgure out who were the real culprit so that way justice can be brought to the victims, how is that disrepectful to the fallen?

Also its interesting you'd post the name of the documentary, "Inside 9/11". Even more subliminal messages.

Time magazine: An inside job?
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,175953,00.html

The history of CIA, a good way to learn about them is to go backwards into their history is to start from the beginning...A good place to start...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,688310,00.html

[pgwenthold]

Geggy, I wasn't going to post anymore in this thread, basically because there's no real point -- you stopped making sense long ago, and now you're no more coherent than a barking dog. But I've just been watching "Inside 9/11" on the National Geographic Channel. And in doing so, I was freshly reminded of all the destruction that happened that day -- the unspeakable tragedy, the sadness, the terror, the feats of heroism far beyond anything I could personally perform. And then I thought of you and your fellow CT'ers, smearing your own feces all over the memories of the victims and calling it the "truth."


I watched some of that. How very sad.

What was also sad was how, after watching the video they showed, blatently wrong some of the CTers claims end up being.

For starters, let's go to that "it looked like a controlled demolition." I watched the video of the second tower falling, and you know, that didn't look like the controlled demolitions I've seen. Controlled demolitions tend to have massive explosions along the entire height of the structure. The bottom is blowing out at the same time the top is blowing up. Yet, when the second tower fell, it fell from the top down. First the top section, which fell on the section below, which fell on the section below, etc. You didn't see the bottom crumble before it got smooshed by the stuff above it. That's not the same as any controlled demolition I've seen.

Second, if it was a controlled demolition, it was a really poorly done one. For example, after it was all over, there was still a large section of the interior shaft still standing (something like 6 stories). So, what, they didn't blow that part up? Moreover, there was still a lot of the shell at the base still standing. I couldn't tell how big it was, but it looked to be several stories tall yet (that's dozens of feet of structure still standing).

The only thing that looked like a controlled demolition was that the building fell down.

[chipmunk stew]

Boy, when these guys put their heads together, they can really do some damage. Just look at how they dismantled 911myths.com:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=2737&st=0

[hellaeon]

Anti Geggy rant

hahaha! nominated!

[geggy]

Yes, Saddam was a mild, kind-hearted dictator who had the best interest of his people, whom he loved passionately, at heart.

Amerika was responsible of installing Saddam as a puppet in government of Iraq to obey america orders.

Rummy and Saddam meets...

http://www.marxist.com/images/saddam_rumsfeld.jpg

Because of amerika's treachery, saddam decided to turn his back away to america's orders that lead to the toppling of saddam before ameica could install another puppet in the iraqi government.

[chipmunk stew]

The history of CIA, a good way to learn about them is to go backwards into their history is to start from the beginning...A good place to start...When you read you begin with A-B-C
When you sing you begin with do-re-mi

[Pardalis]

The editor of the magazine who is a female,

So?

she herself is an asset to the CIA.

Proof?

Can't remember what exactly her name was

So what the f**k are you bringing this up for?

[Pardalis]

Even more subliminal messages.

Not again with your "frontal lobe" theory again. Man, you really freak me out!

[NobbyNobbs]

Hey thanks for providing even more evidence that there were molten steel in WTC. I've never seen that picture before. I'm having hard times debating with people because most of the people here are full of contradictions. You said there was no molten steel in the past now youre showing me a picture of molten steel. How am I supposed to take you seriously? By the way do you really think that look anything like burning fuel? Sure as hell look a lot like thermite liquid pouring over.
.

Hey, Giggy, I want to mention a couple things to you.

Iron, copper, zinc, silver, aluminum, gold....

All of these are metals. Gravy showed you a picture of molten metal. You were the one who made the leap to molten steel. Nobody here claimed that was a picture of steel. Be very careful about putting words in people's mouths, as it does not help you or your argument to look good.

As people have pointed out, the frame of the building had a great deal of aluminum in it, which melts at a low temperature. It is quite likely that's what you are looking at.

[Pardalis]

Because of amerika's treachery, saddam decided to turn his back away to america's orders that lead to the toppling of saddam before ameica could install another puppet in the iraqi government.

So there are no dictators in this world? I'm sure you had the same sympathy for Kim Jong Ill, Ceausescu, Idi Amin Dada, Augusto Pinochet, Fidel Castro, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Staline...........

Lets see how you can accuse the US of having manipulated all these nice fellows. Go ahead f**ker.

[brodski]

I'm having hard times debating with people because most of the people here are full of contradictions. You said there was no molten steel in the past now youre showing me a picture of molten steel.
(my bold).
geggy, you have been told time and time again, that there was molten aluminum at the scene, something which is perfectly in keeping with the version of events which is accepted by every expert who has looked into the WTC collapses. Nobody denies that there was molten METAL at the site, but there was no molten steel. therefore there is no contradiction.
as you believe tat there was molten steel at the site, you must also accept that there was molten aluminum at the site, unless you believe that TEH GLOBALISTS somehow managed to melt steel, whilst leaving he much greater volumes of aluminum in tact.
What makes you assume that the molten metal in the picture was molten steel (which only CTers believe was there) as opposed to being molten aluminum, which practically everyone believes was there?
You still haven't acknowledged that molten metal falling on wtc7 would start significant fires.
This is just another example of you making giant leaps of something which barely resembles logic, and reaching a totally wrong conclusion, which even if it where true, would still demolish another plank of your conspiracy theory.

[60hzxtl]

[QUOTE=geggy;1609429]Hey thanks for providing even more evidence that there were molten steel in WTC. I've never seen that picture before.


What a hoot - all melting metal is steel?

Could that be the skin of the building - aluminum? Nahh - that's burnin' steel!

I'm reminded of the now old line - arguing on the Internet is like winning the special Olympics - you may win, but. . .

[Dave_46]

Right, intense fire burning at 700 degree C

When it comes to building fires 700 deg C doesn't mean an "intense fire" to me.

Dave

[chipmunk stew]

Hey, Giggy, I want to mention a couple things to you.

Iron, copper, zinc, silver, aluminum, gold....

All of these are metals. Gravy showed you a picture of molten metal. You were the one who made the leap to molten steel. Nobody here claimed that was a picture of steel. Be very careful about putting words in people's mouths, as it does not help you or your argument to look good.

As people have pointed out, the frame of the building had a great deal of aluminum in it, which melts at a low temperature. It is quite likely that's what you are looking at.Google also likes to argue alternately that there was no heat source hot enough to "melt hair" before the collapse, but there were pools of molten steel weeks after the collapse.

How this is supposed to support a controlled demolition theory is a mystery to me.

[hellaeon]

hey where is roxydogbollocks these days

[kookbreaker]

Amerika was responsible of installing Saddam as a puppet in government of Iraq to obey america orders.


That conveniently ignores the fact that Saddam was working with the Soviets.


Rummy and Saddam meets...

http://www.marxist.com/images/saddam_rumsfeld.jpg


Big deal. I can produce pictures of a President of the US shaking hands with a dictator who killed 10's of millions of his own people as well millions of people outside his country. The pictures were taken at a special council of elite types who were planning how to divide the world amongst themselves.

Look it up sometime, it was called 'The Yalta Conference'.


Because of amerika's treachery,


Oooh. America with a 'K', straight from the Calvin Klein Communist tactic book.


saddam decided to turn his back away to america's orders that lead to the toppling of saddam before ameica could install another puppet in the iraqi government.

Could you show more ignorance of Iraqi history?

[chipmunk stew]

Interestingly you would bring up national geographic. The editor of the magazine who is a female, she herself is an asset to the CIA. Can't remember what exactly her name was. I'm only trying to firgure out who were the real culprit so that way justice can be brought to the victims, how is that disrepectful to the fallen?Giggle,
The editor-in-chief of Nat'l Geo, since Jan '05, is Chris Johns (http://www.nationalgeographic.com/speakers/profile_johns.html). Not a woman. He was a photographer for 17 years prior to his appointment.
Before that was Bill Allen (http://www.nationalgeographic.com/speakers/profile_allen.html). Also not a woman. Editor for ten years, starting in 1995.
What the hell are you on about, Gigilo?
Why are you always so thoroughly, hopelessly wrong?

[Z]

That's easy - because he's just a kid. Whether he's lived 29 years or not, mentally he's about 12.

[azazal]

Why are you always so thoroughly, hopelessly wrong?

It's the tinfoil, it's a little too tight, cuts of blood to the brain :D

[Pardalis]

That's easy - because he's just a kid. Whether he's lived 29 years or not, mentally he's about 12.

Nahhh, I give him 9.

[Belz...]

Giggle,
The editor-in-chief of Nat'l Geo, since Jan '05, is Chris Johns (http://www.nationalgeographic.com/speakers/profile_johns.html). Not a woman. He was a photographer for 17 years prior to his appointment.
Before that was Bill Allen (http://www.nationalgeographic.com/speakers/profile_allen.html). Also not a woman. Editor for ten years, starting in 1995.
What the hell are you on about, Gigilo?
Why are you always so thoroughly, hopelessly wrong?

Damn. I've never encountered someone who is wrong MORE often. Ever.

[Belz...]

Boy, when these guys put their heads together, they can really do some damage. Just look at how they dismantled 911myths.com:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=2737&st=0

It truly is religion. Like street gangs, also. A quest for purpose and peer acceptance.

It's amazing these people have the intellectual acumen required to use a keyboard.

[Belz...]

Amerika was responsible of installing Saddam as a puppet in government of Iraq to obey america orders.

Because of amerika's treachery, saddam decided to turn his back away to america's orders that lead to the toppling of saddam before ameica could install another puppet in the iraqi government.

So you're also ignorant of world history, are you ?

I'm sure there are a few dogs out there that are more knowledgeable than you.

[chipmunk stew]

Boy, when these guys put their heads together, they can really do some damage. Just look at how they dismantled 911myths.com:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=2737&st=0 Wow. And the way they take on NIST is something to behold:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=2116

[DavidJames]

Wow. And the way they take on NIST is something to behold:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=2116You noticed that nobody responded to your facts about freefall rates. These guys avoid or run away from genuine evidence like Superman from Kryptonite

[NobbyNobbs]

Damn. I've never encountered someone who is wrong MORE often. Ever.


You have to wonder if he qualifies for the million dollar prize for being psychic. Being wrong so consistently has to be just about as probable as being right.

[Beleth]

This thread is getting painful to read.

Gidget reminds me of the Black Knight in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" except that he doesn't realize that it's time to give up when his arms and legs have been hacked off. It's like all that left is his mouth, his windpipe, half a lung, and the tiniest bit of brainstem screaming "You don't want to debate me! I'll kickyerazz!" And when spit on, shouts "Thanks for the ammunition I can use against you!"

It's over. It's been over for pages now.



PS - The more common term for "tenths of centuries" is "decades".

[geggy]

EDIT: to cimpmunk
Yet it doesn't make you suspicious at all. Seriously you're probably one of the most mind controlled people. It's in my view that if not enough people wake up to this corporate destruction of our flawed democracy then America is screwed. I may leave this country in the fourth wave of people or stay to pick up the pieces, but it's not an out if I leave, it might be a break, a breather, a change, but there is no out. The planet is too small for there to be an out anywhere.

Examples of past failure "independant" investigations that NIST either has led or participated in include:

terrorist bombing, Murrah Federal Building, Oklahoma City, Okla., 1995;
terrorist bombing, World Trade Center, New York, N.Y., 1993;
building fire, Happylands Social Club, Bronx, N.Y., 1992;
building fire, Dupont Plaza Hotel, San Juan, Puerto Rico, 1986;
collapse of walkway, Hyatt Regency Hotel, Kansas City, Mo., 1981; and
condominium collapse, Cocoa Beach, Fla., 1981...

Dang...i cant remember who she was. She probably wasn't an editor but perhaps a reporter, and she contributed to the inside 9/11 documentary. There is just too much info in my brain, I can't recollect every one of them everytime.

Saddam was an asset to the cia and was on their payroll until before the start of the gulf war in 1990 when he invaded US's ally, kuwait and send his relationship with the US and CIA to a bitter end. History is not what you think as it is in this excessively secretive world that we live in.

By the way why hasn't Osama thanked Bush for removing Saddam out of power?

[kookbreaker]

EDIT: to cimpmunk
Saddam was an asset to the cia and was on their payroll until before the start of the gulf war in 1990 when he invaded US's ally, kuwait and send his relationship with the US and CIA to a bitter end.


Payroll? We were openly aiding Saddam in his war with Iran. However, since he was a client state of the USSR, who gave him humungous amounts of aid, our aid was a drop in bucket. No doubt some CIA info/money made its way into Saddam's hands during the Iran/Iraq war, but again, peanuts compared to the Soviet aid.


History is not what you think as it is in this excessively secretive world that we live in.


History is also not what you make up at random.

[kookbreaker]

building fire, Happylands Social Club, Bronx, N.Y., 1992;
building fire, Dupont Plaza Hotel, San Juan, Puerto Rico, 1986;
collapse of walkway, Hyatt Regency Hotel, Kansas City, Mo., 1981; and
condominium collapse, Cocoa Beach, Fla., 1981...


Ah, yes. The Cocoa beach condo collapse. Big time CIA operation. Hundreds of black ops agents working on that one. :rolleyes:

[Manny]

Ah, yes. The Cocoa beach condo collapse. Big time CIA operation. Hundreds of black ops agents working on that one. :rolleyes:As part of their nefarious plot against Hondurans, NIST covered up the second stairway at the Happyland Social Club.

[R.Mackey]

All of these are metals. Gravy showed you a picture of molten metal. You were the one who made the leap to molten steel. Nobody here claimed that was a picture of steel. Be very careful about putting words in people's mouths, as it does not help you or your argument to look good.

Absolutely right. In fact, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that picture show molten metal that definitely isn't steel?

Color's wrong. Steel at that color temperature is softened and workable, but not liquid. I also vote for aluminum.

Mr. Geggy, do your ruddy homework. Otherwise nobody will ever take you seriously. Just what is your motive in this, anyway? Selling stupid videos and newsletters to the tinfoil-hatted?

ETA: Looking at the picture again, it might not be metal at all; possibly just embers blurred by camera speed. This is going by the picture alone. Something hot, whatever it was.

[kookbreaker]

As part of their nefarious plot against Hondurans, NIST covered up the second stairway at the Happyland Social Club.

Don't be ridiculous your third-eye blinded NIST smoking fool. It was a warning to the King of Spain to make sure they continued to stay out of Florida.

[Ramooone]

Absolutely right. In fact, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that picture show molten metal that definitely isn't steel?

Color's wrong. Steel at that color temperature is softened and workable, but not liquid. I also vote for aluminum.

Mr. Geggy, do your ruddy homework. Otherwise nobody will ever take you seriously. Just what is your motive in this, anyway? Selling stupid videos and newsletters to the tinfoil-hatted?

ETA: Looking at the picture again, it might not be metal at all; possibly just embers blurred by camera speed. This is going by the picture alone. Something hot, whatever it was.

thats the thing, it can be anything. we're talking about an office building here, fax machines, computers, chairs, desks, tables you name it. it can be any of those things melting!

the thing i love about the loosers is that if you show them any evidence whatsoever that the 2 towers werent brought down by controlled demolition they immediately jump to their crutch which is WTC7. "Well then how do you explain WTC7 huh?" and then when all the evidence comes out from that they'll find something else to grab onto.

They love to distort info to make themselves look better and from now on im calling them "A Million Little Loosers" in honor of another liar who tried to make himself look better and make a profit off it.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Time to whip it out.

geggy,

I cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are. I mean rock-hard stupid. Dehydrated-rock-hard stupid. Stupid, so stupid it goes way beyond the stupid we know into a whole different dimension of stupid. You are trans-stupid stupid. Meta-stupid. Stupid collapsed on itself so far that even the neutrons have collapsed. Stupid gotten so dense that no intellect can escape. Singularity stupid. Blazing hot mid-day sun on Mercury stupid. You emit more stupid in one second than our entire galaxy emits in a year. Quasar stupid. Your writing has to be a troll. Nothing in our universe can really be this stupid. Perhaps this is some primordial fragment from the original big bang of stupid. Some pure essence of a stupid so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond the laws of physics that we know. I'm sorry. I can't go on. This is an epiphany of stupid for me. After this, you may not hear from me again for a while. I don't have enough strength left to deride your ignorant questions and half baked comments about unimportant trivia, or any of the rest of this drivel.
...
I have snipped away most of what you wrote, because, well... it didn't really say anything. Your attempt at constructing a creative post was pitiful.
...
Maybe later in life, after you have learned to read, write, spell, and count, you will have more success. True, these are rudimentary skills that many of us "normal" people take for granted that everyone has an easy time of mastering. But we sometimes forget that there are "challenged" persons in this world who find these things more difficult. If I had known, that this was your case then I would have never read your post. It just wouldn't have been "right". Sort of like parking in a handicap space. I wish you the best of luck in the emotional, and social struggles that seem to be placing such a demand on you.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a3709544a6e.htm

[CptColumbo]

Dang...i cant remember who she was. She probably wasn't an editor but perhaps a reporter, and she contributed to the inside 9/11 documentary. There is just too much info in my brain, I can't recollect every one of them everytime.
They interviewed people from the CIA, as well as other Gov't intelligence agencies, news services, and experts in the middle east, to get their stories. You then get a secondary source to confirm what they told you. That's called investigating.

Usually an investigator collects, looks at, and verifies all the available evidence, before they come to a theory of what may have happened. They do not come to a conclusion then look for evidence to fit that hypothosis, and ignore the facts that don't.

[CptColumbo]

Time to whip it out.

geggy,

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a3709544a6e.htm

How about this?
Mr. [geggy], what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Thank you to Billy Madison.

[pgwenthold]

the thing i love about the loosers is that if you show them any evidence whatsoever that the 2 towers werent brought down by controlled demolition they immediately jump to their crutch which is WTC7. "Well then how do you explain WTC7 huh?" and then when all the evidence comes out from that they'll find something else to grab onto.

.

Somewhere in the early days of this thread, there was a discussion about a possible debate.

I didn't say anything at the time, but I was going to mention that if there is to be a debate, the topic must be extremely narrow. You want to avoid a debate on things like "was 9/11 a conspiracy?" because it is far, far too broad, and results in things like what we see here. As soon as one point is refuted, the CTer drops it and moves onto the next.

If there is going to be a debate, you have to pick a very specific topic. For example, the topic could be "Was WTC7 destroyed by a controlled demolition?" And arguments would have to stay within that topic. NO diverting to the falling of WTC1 or 2. NO pictures of Saddam Hussein. Just address the question of whether WTC7 was a controlled demolition.

The next question will be addressed in the next debate. "Was there molten steel?"

Once the question is settled, there is no going back and reusing the defeated argument.

As I have pointed out before, CTers are a lot like creationists. They throw out piles of crap, at least some of which is blatent distortion (and who knows about the rest), but which have to be refuted. Then throw out more questions. Make it look like they are the ones on the offensive, and that the CW is always being defensive, while never being able to actually produce a case of their own (because they are always having to correct misinformation). When it comes to providing evidence, skip the physics and spend time quote miniing from any source they can find.

If you make them address one single issue, it gets a lot harder because they don't "just have questions" any more. They actually have to provide evidence, which is still often quote mining, but at least on a given topic. Moreover, if it is not on the topic, you can dismiss it as irrelevent to the case at hand. Shoot, there could be a quote from a demolitions expert who claimed to have wired WTC1 and WTC2 with explosives, and it would not address the question of whether WTC7 was a controlled demolition. Cover the "controlled demolition of WTC1" to another day.

But in the end, leaving the topic completely general leads to an unproductive discussion of dodge and weave.

[Manny]

Don't be ridiculous your third-eye blinded NIST smoking fool. It was a warning to the King of Spain to make sure they continued to stay out of Florida.Freaking globalists. I can never figure out what they're up to and I'm one of 'em!

[azazal]

How about this?

Thank you to Billy Madison.



(Golf Clap) Good show old man, jolly good show.

[CptColumbo]

Somewhere in the early days of this thread, there was a discussion about a possible debate.

I didn't say anything at the time, but I was going to mention that if there is to be a debate, the topic must be extremely narrow. You want to avoid a debate on things like "was 9/11 a conspiracy?" because it is far, far too broad, and results in things like what we see here. As soon as one point is refuted, the CTer drops it and moves onto the next.

If there is going to be a debate, you have to pick a very specific topic. For example, the topic could be "Was WTC7 destroyed by a controlled demolition?" And arguments would have to stay within that topic. NO diverting to the falling of WTC1 or 2. NO pictures of Saddam Hussein. Just address the question of whether WTC7 was a controlled demolition.

The next question will be addressed in the next debate. "Was there molten steel?"

Once the question is settled, there is no going back and reusing the defeated argument.

As I have pointed out before, CTers are a lot like creationists. They throw out piles of crap, at least some of which is blatent distortion (and who knows about the rest), but which have to be refuted. Then throw out more questions. Make it look like they are the ones on the offensive, and that the CW is always being defensive, while never being able to actually produce a case of their own (because they are always having to correct misinformation). When it comes to providing evidence, skip the physics and spend time quote miniing from any source they can find.

If you make them address one single issue, it gets a lot harder because they don't "just have questions" any more. They actually have to provide evidence, which is still often quote mining, but at least on a given topic. Moreover, if it is not on the topic, you can dismiss it as irrelevent to the case at hand. Shoot, there could be a quote from a demolitions expert who claimed to have wired WTC1 and WTC2 with explosives, and it would not address the question of whether WTC7 was a controlled demolition. Cover the "controlled demolition of WTC1" to another day.

But in the end, leaving the topic completely general leads to an unproductive discussion of dodge and weave.

That's why when Roxdog kept asking for a live debate, I suggested: only if it was under formal rules of debate, with an independent moderator, and in a neutral setting. If you do it on their podcast, it whould become a shouting match. As most people know, being louder makes you right.

[Correa Neto]

...snip...I may leave this country in the fourth wave of people or stay to pick up the pieces, but it's not an out if I leave, it might be a break, a breather, a change, but there is no out. The planet is too small for there to be an out anywhere.
...snip...
*switches lurking mode off*
I can only hope that if he leaves, he will decide to immigrate to somewhere else than Brazil. Buy a house at Tehran, buddy...
*switches lurking mode on*

[geggy]

They interviewed people from the CIA, as well as other Gov't intelligence agencies, news services, and experts in the middle east, to get their stories. You then get a secondary source to confirm what they told you. That's called investigating.

Usually an investigator collects, looks at, and verifies all the available evidence, before they come to a theory of what may have happened. They do not come to a conclusion then look for evidence to fit that hypothosis, and ignore the facts that don't.


You need to understand how hierarchy pyramid of news agencies work. National geographics is one of the outlets that are on top of the pyramid. Others being cnn, fox, popular mechanics, Time, AP, etc who are affilitiated with the US government. The US government decides what information should be given to put themselves in a more favorable light. The top ranking individuals of each outlet's job is to keep every dissent in check to prevent from information that puts the US government in a darker light leaked to the public. The next level below of the hiercharcy pyramid gets their news from the level above. The pattern continues as information are passed to the next level below. Independent journalists who are neutral from the pyramid whereas the government has no control over, do as much research as national geographics journalists do and put out more broader and real information.

[pgwenthold]

That's why when Roxdog kept asking for a live debate, I suggested: only if it was under formal rules of debate, with an independent moderator, and in a neutral setting. If you do it on their podcast, it whould become a shouting match. As most people know, being louder makes you right.

Shoot, I don't even think there needs to be a neutral setting. The topic just has to be so narrowly defined that no one can flip to something unrelated.

[drkitten]

You need to understand how hierarchy pyramid of news agencies work. National geographics is one of the outlets that are on top of the pyramid. Others being cnn, fox, popular mechanics, Time, AP, etc who are affilitiated with the US government.


Er, no

The US government decides what information should be given to put themselves in a more favorable light.

Ever hear of the "Pentagon Papers"? This statement is not supported by history.

The top ranking individuals of each outlet's job is to keep every dissent in check to prevent from information that puts the US government in a darker light leaked to the public.

Er, no


The next level below of the hiercharcy pyramid gets their news from the level above. The pattern continues as information are passed to the next level below.

Er, no


Independent journalists who are neutral from the pyramid whereas the government has no control over, do as much research as national geographics journalists do and put out more broader and real information.

Er, no

[Shrinker]

You need to understand how hierarchy pyramid of news agencies work. National geographics is one of the outlets that are on top of the pyramid. Others being cnn, fox, popular mechanics, Time, AP, etc who are affilitiated with the US government. The US government decides what information should be given to put themselves in a more favorable light. The top ranking individuals of each outlet's job is to keep every dissent in check to prevent from information that puts the US government in a darker light leaked to the public. The next level below of the hiercharcy pyramid gets their news from the level above. The pattern continues as information are passed to the next level below. Independent journalists who are neutral from the pyramid whereas the government has no control over, do as much research as national geographics journalists do and put out more broader and real information.
Somebody here was wondering what you did for a living. I guess we can now rule out journalism, or anything related to the media.

[Belz...]

You noticed that nobody responded to your facts about freefall rates. These guys avoid or run away from genuine evidence like Superman from Kryptonite

How DARE you compare Superman to these guys ? Superman does NOT run from Kryptonite.

He confronts it. And dies.

[Belz...]

History is not what you think as it is in this excessively secretive world that we live in.

And yet YOU are so knowledgeable in history. How did you get all that information, anyway ? Not nearly secretive enough, it seems.

[pgwenthold]

You need to understand how hierarchy pyramid of news agencies work. National geographics is one of the outlets that are on top of the pyramid.

First of all, for someone who has been shown to be wrong on so many occasions, you are massively condescending. Who is the woman that is the editor of National Geographic again?

Second, since when is National Geographic a news agency?

[juryjone]

There is just too much info in my brain, I can't recollect every one of them everytime.

:dl:

Somehow when I read geggy I am reminded of Nigel Tufnel talking about the "special" amp in Spinal Tap: "But this one goes to eleven."

[delphi_ote]

And yet YOU are so knowledgeable in history. How did you get all that information, anyway ? Not nearly secretive enough, it seems.
Our files are always open to the conspiracy theorists, even when we can't keep them in order ourselves. We like to make sure the CTs have a better idea of what we're doing than we do ourselves.

[brodski]

Our files are always open to the conspiracy theorists, even when we can't keep them in order ourselves. We like to make sure the CTs have a better idea of what we're doing than we do ourselves.
Plus, it cuts down on our need for expensive storage facilities for all of our files, we just let the CTers keep a track on what we are doing. The trouble is all of our dis-info, as well as our real data, appear in our "files", it can get very confusing at times. Luckily we have some of the finest paranoid, idiotic minds in the world to explain to us exactly what we are doing.

[kookbreaker]

Somebody here was wondering what you did for a living. I guess we can now rule out journalism, or anything related to the media.

I'm beginning to think his job is 'driving nails into his own skull for loose change at the freak show'.

[Hawk one]

Just popping in to notify how geggy is consistently running away from any sub-topic whenever it's so painfully clear to even a 5-year old he doesn't have a case.

One of his first claims was something like "How can amateurs fly a plane into two towers." And when it was shown how a) you don't need -that- much training to simply fly a plane (as landing and taking off without damaging anything is the main crux), and b) the terrorists had taken classes in flying commercial air line planes, he just shut up about it. No "Oh, I was wrong about that." No hint of self-insight. Not at all asking himself the question "If this argument isn't true at all, then why should I keep on trusting the source it came from?" None of this, just popping in more CT hogwash.

And after a few dozens of those, we now get to the "molten metal" picture. He takes it as evidence for molten steel by jumping to conclusions, but when people point out that this jump is wrong... He then jumps ship and starts pulling out another claim, instead of admitting he was wrong. Again.

Just making an observation.

[c4ts]

You need to understand how hierarchy pyramid of news agencies work. National geographics is one of the outlets that are on top of the pyramid. Others being cnn, fox, popular mechanics, Time, AP, etc who are affilitiated with the US government. The US government decides what information should be given to put themselves in a more favorable light. The top ranking individuals of each outlet's job is to keep every dissent in check to prevent from information that puts the US government in a darker light leaked to the public. The next level below of the hiercharcy pyramid gets their news from the level above. The pattern continues as information are passed to the next level below. Independent journalists who are neutral from the pyramid whereas the government has no control over, do as much research as national geographics journalists do and put out more broader and real information.

You're going to have to start relying on things other than additional conspiracies to explain your position. Otherwise you will be stuck naming one conspiracy after another forever. This amounts to nothing but a pile of accusations without foundations which have no effect on anything.

[bob_kark]

Geggy,

To further Hawk One's observation and try to resolve the issue, is there one piece of evidence you believe proves that the CT is correct and if found to be false would change your mind? If there is, what is it, why do you believe that it is true, and how does it prove that there was a conspiracy? In your own words please.

[geggy]

You're going to have to start relying on things other than additional conspiracies to explain your position. Otherwise you will be stuck naming one conspiracy after another forever. This amounts to nothing but a pile of accusations without foundations which have no effect on anything.

do you think former press secterary scott mclellan was a liar? did you know that he quit his job recently? any idea who took over his position? Was it former fox news anchor tony snow? Do you think that amounts to something? Huh? Huh?

Heh.

I'd change my mind if it was shown that it wasn't a molten steel. I only came to that conclusion after discovering many claims made by ground zero crew that they said they saw molten steel, videos/pics that showed molten steel, thermal spot scientific data showing that the temprature of several thermal spot exceeded at over 800 degrees so I figured why deny it?

[Hellbound]

I'd change my mind if it was shown that it wasn't a molten steel. I only came to that conclusion after discovering many claims made by ground zero crew that they said they saw molten steel, videos/pics that showed molten steel, thermal spot scientific data showing that the temprature of several thermal spot exceeded at over 800 degrees so I figured why deny it?

So, you're saying you've changed your mind, then?

The "molten steel" in the pics is glowing at the wrong color; steel is white when melted, not orange.

The "molten steel" puddles found in the wreckage could be cut; they were too soft to be steel.

800 degrees is far below the melting point of steel (although well within range of what a house fire can produce).

You keep assuming molten metal=molten steel. There was an enormous amount of aluminum in the buildings, something that would nicely match the properties of the supposed "molten steel" that everyone claimed to have found.

[bob_kark]

I'd change my mind if it was shown that it wasn't a molten steel. I only came to that conclusion after discovering many claims made by ground zero crew that they said they saw molten steel, videos/pics that showed molten steel, thermal spot scientific data showing that the temprature of several thermal spot exceeded at over 800 degrees so I figured why deny it?

Ok, how does this prove that there was a conspiracy?

[CurtC]

do you think former press secterary scott mclellan was a liar?So now that you're backed into a corner about your silly assertions that every newsreporter in the country (outside of the "National geographics" staff) is part of the vast conspiracy, you quickly switch to... McLellan and Snow as press secretaries? And what, pray tell, is your point with this? Go ahead and get it out, we'll demolish that one too, so you can shuck and jive over to some other nuttiness.

I'd change my mind if it was shown that it wasn't a molten steel.Do you promise? OK, here goes... molten steel is not red-hot, it is white. If a molten metal is red colored, it's not steel. Is there any report anywhere that there was any white-hot molten metal seen? No? Then I expect your announcement that your mind has changed, back to the sane side. Actually, I would be insane if I really expected that. I've heard before that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different outcome.

[geggy]

I said over 800 degrees. It was found that 5 days after the attack, seevral thermal spots reached at a maximum of 1341 degrees. Someone made an interesting point that it may have been sheet metal from diesel fuel tank. It could be that. But I was convinced by other claims that it probably wasn't it.

Prez of controlled demo, inc and prez of tully construction company both have confirmed that they saw molten steel.
Unless you want to debunk with links from 911myths.com?

[Regnad Kcin]

It's really quite remarkable how someone can be 100% wrong about something. Not partially correct; say, 10, 15%. No, totally in error.

It's a wonder to behold.

[geggy]

I gueess tony fox has experience in lying in front of the camera while he was the fox news anchor. so bush figured he'd be the perfect guy for the press secetary position in order to lie for him. I'm sayin that the bush administration has a stranglehold on the media just as hitler did during the nazi regime. If you'd study the history of the third reich, the parellel of the nazi regime and the current bush regime is far too similiar. Afterall bush's grandfather was hitler's banker. Did you know that the nazis were responsible for the reichstag fire?

[bob_kark]

I said over 800 degrees. It was found that 5 days after the attack, seevral thermal spots reached at a maximum of 1341 degrees. Someone made an interesting point that it may have been sheet metal from diesel fuel tank. It could be that. But I was convinced by other claims that it probably wasn't it.

Prez of controlled demo, inc and prez of tully construction company both have confirmed that they saw molten steel.
Unless you want to debunk with links from 911myths.com?

Ok, regardless of the truth or falsehood of your statement, how does this prove that there was a conspiracy?

[Hellbound]

Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F). (http://education.jlab.org/qa/meltingpoint_01.html)

You're still wrong, giggy.

As to your claims that these two persons confirmed molten steel, have anything to back that up? And how did they know it was molten steel? People can be mistaken.

Because, I believe your sources are the same ones that go on to scoop some of it into a bucket, which pretty much proves it wasn't steel (steel at a temperature hot enough to be that soft would have melted the bucket).

[geggy]

I'm not sure if you've seen this link but ya should...maybe ya can help me understand it little better...

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/thermal.r09.html

Bear in mind that the first photo was taken on sept 16, 5 days after the attack. Molten steel were found visible 2 days after the attack meaning it was out in the air for cooldown. Supposedly it was much hotter on the previous daays?

[Belz...]

Our files are always open to the conspiracy theorists, even when we can't keep them in order ourselves. We like to make sure the CTs have a better idea of what we're doing than we do ourselves.

Which is clever, because then we can... er... what, again ?

[CptColumbo]

How DARE you compare Superman to these guys ? Superman does NOT run from Kryptonite.

He confronts it. And dies.
For the second time, DON'T MESS WITH THE "S!"

[Belz...]

You're going to have to start relying on things other than additional conspiracies to explain your position. Otherwise you will be stuck naming one conspiracy after another forever. This amounts to nothing but a pile of accusations without foundations which have no effect on anything.

If he continues this way, EVERYONE will be part of the conspiracy, except him.

Maybe he's just doing it to draw attention away from his own culpability.

[Dr Adequate]

I'm not sure if you've seen this link but ya should...maybe ya can help me understand it little better...

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/thermal.r09.html What do you not understand?

Molten steel were found visible 2 days after the attack... Do you have any evidence for this?

What is this stuff about molten steel anyway? Your fabulous "controlled demolition" wouldn't melt steel, would it?

[DavidJames]

geggy:

I assume you have a job. If so, are you required to make decisions based on logic and facts or can you just make crap up like you do here?

[Belz...]

I said over 800 degrees. It was found that 5 days after the attack, seevral thermal spots reached at a maximum of 1341 degrees.

I thought your Loon Changers said that temperatures never reached that high. Do you believe in anything you're saying ?

Prez of controlled demo, inc and prez of tully construction company both have confirmed that they saw molten steel.

Link please.

[Belz...]

I'm sayin that the bush administration has a stranglehold on the media just as hitler did during the nazi regime.

Of course. If true, it'd allow you to ignore any and ALL information from any media source ever in order to maintain your crazy delusion.

Did you know that the nazis were responsible for the reichstag fire?

Who DOESN'T know ?

[pgwenthold]

I'm not sure if you've seen this link but ya should...maybe ya can help me understand it little better...

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/thermal.r09.html

Bear in mind that the first photo was taken on sept 16, 5 days after the attack. Molten steel were found visible 2 days after the attack meaning it was out in the air for cooldown. Supposedly it was much hotter on the previous daays?

I saw nothing in that site that says anything about molten steel. In fact, the only thing relevent is that

AVIRIS records the near-infrared signature of heat remotely. The accompanying maps are false color images that show the core affected area around the World Trade Center. Initial analysis of these data revealed a number of thermal hot spots on September 16 in the region where the buildings collapsed 5 days earlier. Analysis of the data indicates temperatures greater than 800oF.

800F is about 425 celsius, not anywhere hot enough to melt much of any metal.

The website indicates that the hot spots are fires. So there were still fires burning on Sept 16. And?

[Belz...]

What is this stuff about molten steel anyway? Your fabulous "controlled demolition" wouldn't melt steel, would it?

The good doctor here has an excellent point. How does molten steel, even if it were there, be indication of controlled demolition ?

Also: points to 43 for pointing it out, as well.

[Manny]

geggy:

I assume you have a job. If so, are you required to make decisions based on logic and facts or can you just make crap up like you do here?Logically, if the customer says "yes" than he does in fact want fries with that.

[bob_kark]

I'm not sure if you've seen this link but ya should...maybe ya can help me understand it little better...

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/thermal.r09.html

Bear in mind that the first photo was taken on sept 16, 5 days after the attack. Molten steel were found visible 2 days after the attack meaning it was out in the air for cooldown. Supposedly it was much hotter on the previous daays?

Ok, regardless of the truth or falsehood of your statement, how does this prove that there was a conspiracy?

[delphi_ote]

do you think former press secterary scott mclellan was a liar? did you know that he quit his job recently? any idea who took over his position? Was it former fox news anchor tony snow? Do you think that amounts to something? Huh? Huh?
It's funny that we all totally ignored this part of his post. By dealing with geggy for so long, it seems we've all developed ************ non sequitur filters.

[delphi_ote]

Which is clever, because then we can... er... what, again ?
See brodski's post. It goes to the very heart of the organization of the globalist conspiracy. The truth he reveals is almost too sinister to repeat.

[Pardalis]

I gueess tony fox has experience in lying in front of the camera while he was the fox news anchor. so bush figured he'd be the perfect guy for the press secetary position in order to lie for him. I'm sayin that the bush administration has a stranglehold on the media just as hitler did during the nazi regime. If you'd study the history of the third reich, the parellel of the nazi regime and the current bush regime is far too similiar. Afterall bush's grandfather was hitler's banker. Did you know that the nazis were responsible for the reichstag fire?

Now geggy, you have gone too far. Crisse d'enculé. *********** *******.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[CptColumbo]

I gueess tony fox has experience in lying in front of the camera while he was the fox news anchor. so bush figured he'd be the perfect guy for the press secetary position in order to lie for him. I'm sayin that the bush administration has a stranglehold on the media just as hitler did during the nazi regime. If you'd study the history of the third reich, the parellel of the nazi regime and the current bush regime is far too similiar. Afterall bush's grandfather was hitler's banker. Did you know that the nazis were responsible for the reichstag fire?
I have studied the Third Reich, and see very few (if any) similarities to the Bush Administration.

However, I do see similarities to the tactics of the Losers and Holocaust Deniers.

[Shrinker]

I'm not sure if you've seen this link but ya should...maybe ya can help me understand it little better...

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/thermal.r09.html

Bear in mind that the first photo was taken on sept 16, 5 days after the attack. Molten steel were found visible 2 days after the attack meaning it was out in the air for cooldown. Supposedly it was much hotter on the previous daays?

Geggy, your link seems to show very high temperatures at the WTC 7 site. What could have caused that?

[senorpogo]

I gueess tony fox has experience in lying in front of the camera while he was the fox news anchor. so bush figured he'd be the perfect guy for the press secetary position in order to lie for him. I'm sayin that the bush administration has a stranglehold on the media just as hitler did during the nazi regime. If you'd study the history of the third reich, the parellel of the nazi regime and the current bush regime is far too similiar. Afterall bush's grandfather was hitler's banker. Did you know that the nazis were responsible for the reichstag fire?

geggy, you so crazy!

[DavidJames]

Geggy, your link seems to show very high temperatures at the WTC 7 site. What could have caused that?I can't imagine what geggy will say, but I'm guessing the only thing he's ruled out are any explanations not related to a conspiracy.

[hellaeon]

Giggle,
The editor-in-chief of Nat'l Geo, since Jan '05, is Chris Johns (http://www.nationalgeographic.com/speakers/profile_johns.html). Not a woman. He was a photographer for 17 years prior to his appointment.
Before that was Bill Allen (http://www.nationalgeographic.com/speakers/profile_allen.html). Also not a woman. Editor for ten years, starting in 1995.
What the hell are you on about, Gigilo?
Why are you always so thoroughly, hopelessly wrong?

hahaha geggy thats a pretty poor level of research

[geggy]

Who DOESN'T know ?

Yeah but who were blamed at first for setting the fire at the reichstag? Why did the nazis do it? How long was it until the people have discovered that the nazis were the culprit of the reichstag fire?

Remember how black the smoke that were billowing out of wtc buildings before it collapsed were? That indicated the fire was oxygen starved meaning the temperature couldn't have had gone anywhere near the temprature of steel's melting point.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/09_03_02/NEW_SEISMIC_/new_seismic_.html

[CptColumbo]

Remember how black the smoke that were billowing out of wtc buildings before it collapsed were? That indicated the fire was oxygen starved meaning the temperature couldn't have had gone anywhere near the temprature of steel's melting point.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/09_03_02/NEW_SEISMIC_/new_seismic_.html You seem to be the only one saying that there was molten steel. You haven't answered Shrinker's question at 2234. Are you leaving a subject to avoid answering the question, again?

[geggy]

I have studied the Third Reich, and see very few (if any) similarities to the Bush Administration.

However, I do see similarities to the tactics of the Losers and Holocaust Deniers.


Then you must already know that hitler spied on opposition party and the dissents in whom he labelled as terroists. The "terrorists" tried to warn the citizens of germany that reichstag fire were possibly started by the nazis yet they were ridiculed.

[Apex Rogers]

Let me get this straight, geggy; one minute you say that the steel was so hot it melted and the next you say there was no way it could've melted, all the time ignoring that steel didn't need to melt in order for the towers to fall.l The more you distort the arguments and change your tune, the less credible you appear (not that you've presented a single thing that would lend you any credibility in the first place...)

[delphi_ote]

Then you must already know that hitler spied on opposition party and the dissents in whom he labelled as terroists. The "terrorists" tried to warn the citizens of germany that reichstag fire were possibly started by the nazis yet they were ridiculed.
I didn't know "terrorist" was a German word. You teach me something new every day, geggy!

[CptColumbo]

BTW I just watched "Loose Change" (I went to the Library). It was not a very good piece of investigative journalism. In the interviews the questions were leading, with the interviewer often finishing the sentences of the person being interviewed. Irrelevant facts were over-inflated. Suspicious actions by the gov't are easily explainable, by most anyone with a GED. The Movie clearly set out to prove it's agenda by cherry picking facts, and ignoring any that worked against their hypothosis. It was as painful to watch as reading an Anne Coultier book.

Gravy did a good job with his rebuttal, and answered any questions I had (that didn't have obvious answers).

[geggy]

Ok, regardless of the truth or falsehood of your statement, how does this prove that there was a conspiracy?


That bombs were planted in the basement of both wtcs to weaken the steel when it sets off and creates pool of molten steel after the collasping, thus the government covered it up.

Hence, cover up is a conspriacy.

[CptColumbo]

I didn't know "terrorist" was a German word. You teach me something new every day, geggy!

I thought it was this:
Remember in Superman II:
White:The terrorists say they have a hydrogen bomb, and will set it off if their demands aren't met.
Kent:That's terrible Mr. White.
White:That's why their called TERRORISTS Kent.
or words to that effect.

[geggy]

"If you are not with us, then you are with them {terrorists}" -george bush, 9/12/01

[CptColumbo]

That bombs were planted in the basement of both wtcs to weaken the steel when it sets off and creates pool of molten steel after the collasping, thus the government covered it up.

Hence, cover up is a conspriacy.
Now it's weakened steel and explosives in the basement. I thought it was molten steel pouring out and explosives higher up.

Covered what up?

To cover up that they planted explosives higher up which caused the WTC to collapse like a controlled demolition? and then remote controlled planes to crash into the WTC? Get your conspiracy straight, then come back.

[CptColumbo]

"If you are not with us, then you are with them {terrorists}" -george bush, 9/12/01

He was speaking to the other countries that were harboring terrorists.

Once again, changing the topic.

[senorpogo]

That bombs were planted in the basement of both wtcs to weaken the steel when it sets off and creates pool of molten steel after the collasping, thus the government covered it up.

Hence, cover up is a conspriacy.
Last edited by geggy : Today at 07:22 PM.


Did you edit this because it wasn't confusing enough?

[Pardalis]

Then you must already know that hitler spied on opposition party and the dissents in whom he labelled as terroists. The "terrorists" tried to warn the citizens of germany that reichstag fire were possibly started by the nazis yet they were ridiculed.

Man, you're all over the place. Comparisons with Hitler and the nazis is the easiest exist. YOU ARE SINKING VERY LOW.

WORD OF ADVICE: I wouldn't sympathise with terrorists over the internet if I were you...