"Challenging the World's Atheists" site

[jimtron]

I stumbled upon this heartwarming site, which responds to the Evil Bible (http://www.evilbible.com) site.

A few gems:

"Evil Bible's" Assertion:

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

* 10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

The Refiner's Fire Response: Perhaps that is because the "thousands of gods" are false. God gave us the choice to either believe in Him, or not. Through chosen prophets, He "breathed" the Bible into being, and most other world religions and their various denominations have borrowed Bible Scriptures in order to formulate their respective "religions". (bold added)

And:

Firstly, Allah is a demon god who expects YOU to die for HIM (while Yeshua is a God Who died for YOU!) and Islam is a religion started by a murdering, thieving, epileptic pedophile called Mohammed.

It's all about love, man.

[TragicMonkey]

Epileptic = evil?

[thaiboxerken]

Yea, what's the link for the site?

[Achán hiNidráne]

Firstly, Allah is a demon god who expects YOU to die for HIM (while Yeshua is a God Who died for YOU!) and Islam is a religion started by a murdering, thieving, epileptic pedophile called Mohammed.
Epileptic? What's that got to do with anything? Is that meant to be an insult? Tell that to someone who is suffering with that condition and ask them how they feel.

Are the fundies still dragging up the whole Muhammad-was-a-pedophile nonsense (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Young_marriage_age_controversy)? May I remind them that not to long ago it was perfectly acceptable for women to marry in their early teens? (Just like a certain "virgin" the Christians seem to admire.)

[jimtron]

Sorry, forgot the link (http://www.therefinersfire.org/evil_bible.htm)!

[jimtron]

Epileptic? What's that got to do with anything? Is that meant to be an insult? Tell that to someone who is suffering with that condition and ask them how they feel.

Are the fundies still dragging up the whole Muhammad-was-a-pedophile nonsense (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Young_marriage_age_controversy)? May I remind them that not to long ago it was perfectly acceptable for women to marry in their early teens? (Just like a certain "virgin" the Christians seem to admire.)

I wonder how you distinguish between a false prophet and an authentic one? Rev. Moon claims to be a messiah; how do we know he's not and Jesus is?

(edited to correct typo)

[Achán hiNidráne]

I wonder how you distinguish between a false prophet and a authentic one? Rev. Moon claims to be a messiah; how do we know he's not and Jesus is?

Errrrr... because his followers say so.;)

I don't buy Muhammad any more than I do Jesus. However, at least I actually try to learn their history and the particulars of their faiths before I talk about them.

[ChristineR]

One interesting difference between Christians and Muslims is that the Christians just seem to be unable to see the child brides (and concubines) in their tradition, or else say something like "that was wrong but God allowed it because everyone else was doing it," but Muslims (conservative Muslims at least) see this as justification for child marriage, despite the fact that they are obviously evil.

In defense of the Muslims, I must point out that there are still a few Christian sects practicing polygamy and child rape.

[GreedyAlgorithm]

"despite the fact that they are obviously evil."

What does 'they' refer to here? Child brides/concubines? If so, how are they obviously evil?

[ruach1]

In defense of the Muslims, I must point out that there are still a few Christian sects practicing polygamy and child rape.
Now this is one statement that I really think needs a little evidentiary backing.

[jimtron]

One interesting difference between Christians and Muslims is that the Christians just seem to be unable to see the child brides (and concubines) in their tradition, or else say something like "that was wrong but God allowed it because everyone else was doing it," but Muslims (conservative Muslims at least) see this as justification for child marriage, despite the fact that they are obviously evil.

In defense of the Muslims, I must point out that there are still a few Christian sects practicing polygamy and child rape.
Ahh, speaking of polygamy, I found another site responding to Bible critics, which defends Luke 14:26: "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Here's the response from this site (http://www.christiancourier.com/notes/hatingFamily.htm): To some this passage is quite difficult, for it appears to contradict other biblical injunctions which require love for family, both physical and spiritual (cf. Ephesians 5:25; 1 John 2:11).

In ancient times, however, the term “hate” was frequently employed idiomatically to denote simply the preference of one thing over another. For example, in Genesis 29:31 it is said that Jacob “hated” his wife Leah, and yet, the context makes it very clear that he merely loved his other wife Rachel “more than” Leah (v. 30).

It's so easy to confuse "hate" with simply loving one wife more than another.

[Roboramma]

Now this is one statement that I really think needs a little evidentiary backing.

Would we call Mormon fundamentalists a christian sect?

[ChristineR]

Should have said "it" or "polygamy and child marriage."

As for the numbers, I haven't found any good censuses, but I did find estimates of about 35,000-60,000 Mormon polygamists and about 14,000 non-Mormon Christian polygamists. If you start at Wikipedia or Google you'll find many a child bride.

[jimtron]

Now this is one statement that I really think needs a little evidentiary backing.
I haven't checked this out closely, but here's a page (http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_real.htm) that cites cases of ritual Christian child abuse.

[ruach1]

Would we call Mormon fundamentalists a christian sect?
"The Handbook of Denominations" says that LDS is neither Protestant nor Catholic, so I don't know if they are Christian in the According to Hoyle sense of Christian. Their tradition is certainly not within the Apostolic Tradition, so, by this rule, I would say no--- though you may not get any Mormons to go along with this.

[ruach1]

I haven't checked this out closely, but here's a page (http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_real.htm) that cites cases of ritual Christian child abuse.
The site cites child abuse in regards to the ritual of exorcism about which I have no knowledge whatsoever. But it was the alleged purposeful and ongoing practice of Christian child rape in ChristineR's post that sounds more than unbelievable.

[ChristineR]

Underaged marriage is standard in the polygamous psuedo-Mormon communities, and probably in the polygamous non-Morman communities as well. Girls are normally given to a man as soon as they hit puberty. It's part of the cycle of reinforcement and punishment that holds these groups together.

[pipelineaudio]

Are the fundies still dragging up the whole Aisha#Young_marriage_age_controversy"]Muhammad-was-a-pedophile nonsense[/URL]? May I remind them that not to long ago it was perfectly acceptable for women to marry in their early teens? (Just like a certain "virgin" the Christians seem to admire.)


Im no fundie, and I dont like xians anymore than muslims, but I dont know what you are trying to say

Muhammed was (supposedly) the example for ALL men for ALL time

and yeah, 6 is a little young

Just because a xian says it doesnt mean its wrong, ah jeeze did that just come out of my mouth??? :) but its true

Muhammed was some serious evil ooze! That bible thumpers may have been just as evil or worse doesnt change that

[Pauliesonne]

MUHAMMAD >>> GARY GLITTER.........

.........see the connection........

[Zep]

Just browsing that site (a Messianic Jewish website!), you do find some amusing stuff. eg:I have been told that Jewish people are different than other races by way of blood makeup. Is this true? I know this sounds strange but helps in my discussion. I have been told that this is why we can never be Jewish but are grafted into the family.

Thanks, Tim

Dear Tim:

Thank you for writing to The Refiner's Fire!

It's not the blood that is different, but it apparently has been confirmed by scientists that an unusual gene has been found in certain Jews - especially the ones with the last name of Cohen or Cohan, which in the olden days, were the priests...Umm, I wonder where THIS little gem will be taken by the unscrupulous and idiotic!

[Kopji]

The fact was, at that time, anyone who wasn't an Israelite was considered to be a heathen/pagan because they did NOT worship the true Creator, and therefore, God had no allegiance to them. (Why should He???) You can rest assured that God would have spared a given city in Canaan if there had been 10 righteous people living in it — or at least save the righteous people as he did at Sodom and Gomorrah. Rahab and her family in Jericho were spared in Joshua 6, although the city and the other people were destroyed. So we can establish that either no one or a tiny handful of innocent people were killed during the course of the conquest of Canaan. Of course, any innocent, Godly people would have gone to heaven and not be vexed by the wickedness around them, so even that could be considered a "deliverance".


That's too bizarre to respond to.

[Achán hiNidráne]

That URL I posted earlier got mixed up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Young_marriage_age_controversy

[ChristineR]

Speaking of pedophiles, that righteous fellow Lot rapes his daughters. (Yes, the Bible says they seduced him. Funny how every guy who has sex with his daughters says they seduced him but the daughters never say that.)

[Kopji]

From their "Bible Prophecies Fullfilled" page:

4. Trees again would grow in Israel

Like wow, the Bible must be true.

[Zep]

From their "Bible Prophecies Fullfilled" page:

4. Trees again would grow in Israel

Like wow, the Bible must be true.
http://www.slingsnarrows.com/images/buckwheat.jpg

[Achán hiNidráne]

Errrrr...since when have they ever NOT been able to grow in Israel?

[Pauliesonne]

Inevitability

She be a harsh mistress.

[phildonnia]

Speaking of pedophiles, that righteous fellow Lot rapes his daughters. (Yes, the Bible says they seduced him. Funny how every guy who has sex with his daughters says they seduced him but the daughters never say that.)

The Bible speaks neither of rape nor seduction in this episode. It specifically mentions that Lot was asleep and unaware of the entire thing. (Gen 19:33, Gen 19:35)

(Which makes it no less ewwy.)

[neutrino_cannon]

I believe it was the incomperable Earthborn who responded to Allah bashing thus:

"better not tell the Arab christians that Allah is a false god, They'd be mighty disapointed."

[RandFan]

I believe it was the incomperable Earthborn who responded to Allah bashing thus:

"better not tell the Arab christians that Allah is a false god, They'd be mighty disapointed."Somehow I think that would be lost on most.

[Bone_Vulture]

It's all about love, man.

And remember, hurricanes and tsunamis are Yahweh's way of saying that he cares.

[Iacchus]

And remember, hurricanes and tsunamis are Yahweh's way of saying that he cares.Yeah, but if He doesn't find a way to "take us out," how are we going to get to heaven? Or, would you have us believe that there is no point to dying? :confused:

[Donks]

Yeah, but if He doesn't find a way to "take us out," how are we going to get to heaven? Or, would you have us believe that there is no point to dying? :confused:
Personally, I think he should take us out Raiders of the Lost Ark style. Time to put some flash back into religion.

[rustypouch]

The Bible speaks neither of rape nor seduction in this episode. It specifically mentions that Lot was asleep and unaware of the entire thing. (Gen 19:33, Gen 19:35)

(Which makes it no less ewwy.)

I'm confused. How is humping someone, when they are asleep, without consent not considered rape?

[jimtron]

Yeah, but if He doesn't find a way to "take us out," how are we going to get to heaven? Or, would you have us believe that there is no point to dying? :confused:

How about a natural death after a long, full life? I think most of us would prefer that to dying from a natural disaster, especially at a young age.

[Iacchus]

How about a natural death after a long, full life? I think most of us would prefer that to dying from a natural disaster, especially at a young age.I guess. But then again, if there is no life after death, there's no need to believe in this alleged God we're referring to is there? I certainly wouldn't. ;)

[thaiboxerken]

The Bible speaks neither of rape nor seduction in this episode. It specifically mentions that Lot was asleep and unaware of the entire thing. (Gen 19:33, Gen 19:35)


Which means he was raped by his daughters. Good catch.

[thaiboxerken]

Yeah, but if He doesn't find a way to "take us out," how are we going to get to heaven?

Everyone dies, eventually. I really don't think we need help.

Or, would you have us believe that there is no point to dying? :confused:

I think there is a point to death, it's to keep the earth from overpopulation. If no one died, this would be a miserable world indeed.

If you think the point of death is to get to heaven, and if heaven is such a great place.. why are you still alive?

[Pauliesonne]

Suicide.

She's a bitch.

[Iacchus]

Everyone dies, eventually. I really don't think we need help.In what way? In dying? ... or, going to heaven?

I think there is a point to death, it's to keep the earth from overpopulation.Really? If that's the case, it doesn't seem to be working too well.

If no one died, this would be a miserable world indeed. So, why do folks express the desire to live as long as possible?

If you think the point of death is to get to heaven, and if heaven is such a great place.. why are you still alive?Yeah, and why don't I shoot somebody else so they could get there quicker? What if heaven were just a continuation of the same attitude I maintained in this life? Do you believe in murder?

[Pauliesonne]

Do you believe in murder?

Who would I be murdering?

George Bush......

PLEASE MAKE IT BE GEORGE BUSH OR FRED PHELPS!!!!!!!!!!

[Iacchus]

Yes, and he who has it in his heart has already committed it. ;)

[RandFan]

Yes, and he who has it in his heart has already committed it. ;) I don't think so. The law certainly doesn't think so. This leaves religious philosophy.

"All Have Sinned and Fall Short of the Glory of God" --Romans 3:23

"And we are all become as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags..." --Isaiah 64:6

So what difference does it make?

[Iacchus]

I don't think so. The law certainly doesn't think so. This leaves religious philosophy.Yes, render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.

"All Have Sinned and Fall Short of the Glory of God" --Romans 3:23

"And we are all become as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags..." --Isaiah 64:6Then God's creation of man is pointless? While I agree, there is none good but God.

So what difference does it make?It could make the difference of whether someone is dead or alive.

[RandFan]

Yes, render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. ? Sorry? Do you see this as some catch all response? I'm familiar with the scripture but it really doesn't apply here.

I'm demonstrating that humans are sufficiently enlightened enough in this day and age to avoid such vapid conclusions as intent equals action. My point ISN'T that there is a law that we are bound to obey by virtue of law. My point is that humans base this particular legal concept on reason. That fact simply has nothing whatsoever with rendering unto to Caesar. If you are stuck on that then simply remove Caesar.

Humans certainly aren't so stupid as to conflate intent and reality for good reason.

Then God's creation of man is pointless?Begging the question. Logically fallacious. Assumes facts not in evidence.

While I agree, there is none good but God. Not the point! Following the logic of your premise, to god, murder is substantively no different than any other sin.

It could make the difference of whether someone is dead or alive.{sigh} No, Iacchus, the question is relative to the context of your premise. What's the point as it relates to your premise?

1.) You argue that the desire to murder is the same as murder.
2.) I point out that sin is sin and therefore as far as your point goes it is irrelevant because we all sin.

Assuming #2 why bother to point out #1?

[Beerina]

Epileptic = evil?

Posessed by the demons, duh! You don't get any more evil than that.

[Bone_Vulture]

Posessed by the demons, duh! You don't get any more evil than that.

Yeah, and being left-handed? Don't even get me started.

[Iacchus]

Yeah, and being left-handed? Don't even get me started.Well, on the hand you have what's right, and on the other you have what's left ... ;)

[pgwenthold]

The Bible speaks neither of rape nor seduction in this episode. It specifically mentions that Lot was asleep and unaware of the entire thing. (Gen 19:33, Gen 19:35)

(Which makes it no less ewwy.)

Yeah, the excuse of every drunken rapist. "She threw herself at me!"

Let's see, Lot is a drunk, his daughters get pregnant despite there being no other men around. He uses the, "They took advantage of me" defense. And people buy it!

Try that today and see how far it gets.

[Beerina]

Yeah, and being left-handed? Don't even get me started.

You sinister (http://m-w.com/dictionary/sinister) bastard! Get the hell away from me!

Hence the bar sinister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_sinister), a leftward-slanting bar, per my favorite Underdog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underdog) bad guy, Simon Bar Sinister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Bar_Sinister).