Dispatches on faith in schools

[Oleron]

Last night UK tv channel 4 aired a 'Dispatches' (current affairs) programme on the potential risks to public liberty posed by christian fundamentalists.

The show was presnted by Rod Liddle, a journalist who is no stranger to controversy. His primary point was that, because the British govt has adopted a policy of encouraging private industry and finance to assist in building and running state schools, this opens the door to religious groups to have a big say in what is taught to children.

He illustrated this with an example of 3 colleges that were partly built by a local entrepreneur (Peter Vardy, owner of the 'Reg Vardy' car dealership). Mr Vardy is a fundamentalist christian who, perhaps understandably, thought that because he helped build the schools he had a right to say what happened in them. So he made sure the headmaster in charge of all 3 schools was a like-minded christian. They hired more christians and introduced an ethos of biblical morality at the schools. Sex education became a policy of abstenince. Homosexuality was a sin. Science classes started putting creationism on a equal footing with evolution.

Academically the school was performing well, although people were suspicious that this was partly due to the expulsion of many underperforming pupils (16 times the average expulsion rate of other schools in the area).

All this would be reprehensible enough if this was a private school which parents could elect to send their kids to if they wanted but this is a state school where parents don't have a choice to send their children. It's this school or nothing.

So, if you're a christian and you're rich, why not offer to build a school for the govt? It means that the govt will let you run a state school and force-feed your religion to kids that have no other choice. Surely the national curriculum would get in the way though? Nope, apparently not. If you have the money, you can do more or less what you like with other peoples kids.

The best moment on the show for me was when Rod finally got an interview with the headmaster of the school and asked what his personal belief on the creationism/evolution debate was.
The headmaster replied, confidently, that he believed the literal bible account of creation. Rod, incredulous, asked him if he'd understood correctly -that this man actually believed that the world was made in 6 days?!
The headmaster satarted to shuffle uncomfortably, "erm, yes - I believe in the bible account. If the bible says 6 days then that is what it was."
Rod, picking his jaw off the floor, "But what about science - we KNOW it WASN'T made in 6 days - it couldn't possibly have happened. So why do you believe that it was .....etc etc"
An so it went on with the headmaster contradicting reality because it didn't fit with his comfortable view of the world.
Priceless. The headmaster looked like a buffoon.

[pauldmin]

It was a funny moment when the headmaster said something like:
"It's my viewpoint, I'm allowed to have a view aren't I?"
Rod said:
"Well I could have a view that you are made out of Red Leicester cheese, but it would be fatuous"

[Darat]

Saw the programme and it just strengthens my beliefs that we should give more air-time to the people promoting this type of evangelicalism to enable them to clearly state their beliefs and what they mean.

I think (in the UK) that is the best way to block them being able to influence policy. There is no need to campaign against them, all that is needed is for their own beliefs to be publicly exposed to persuade people that they should not be allowed to dictate policy.

[Darat]

More details on the programme can be found here: http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/C/can_you_believe_it/debates/fund.html

(ETA) And some other interesting nuggets of information:http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/C/can_you_believe_it/debates/talking_point.html

Some background pieces:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3920629.stm


...snip...

A curriculum document by Emmanuel College in Gateshead describes how it should seek to infuse all lessons with Biblical Christian thinking.

It asks, for example, whether Hitler halted at the English Channel rather than invading England because of divine intervention.

...snip...


http://www.emmanuel-schools.org.uk/


...snip...

The EMMANUEL Schools Foundation exists to promote the highest possible standards within comprehensive secondary education through provision based upon Christian principles.

The Foundation is based in the North-east of England and its schools operate within areas of socio-economic deprivation. The schools are non-fee-paying and work with the Department for Education and Skills and their local communities in their pursuit of 'personal best' achievement for all students.

By valuing every individual, regardless of ability, and by welcoming those of all Faiths and of none, the schools place the Person of Christ and His example at the centre of their inspiration as they mould a curriculum appropriate for students of the 21st century.

...snip...




...snip...

Whatever else you say about Gateshead's Emmanuel College, you have to admit it works.

So what else is said about it? Well, if you read the popular reports, you'd honestly think the place had been founded by religious bigots and staffed with wild-eyed crackpots, hell-bent on turning out religious fanatics and doing away with 300 years of scientific progress.

That is silly. It is so silly that it is almost not worth dignifying it with an article. Almost, but we will anyway. Because in the current debate over education, what is happening at Emmanuel College needs to be recognised and evaluated fairly. Education is far too important to allow prejudice, bias and bad reporting to form our opinions and cloud the real issues.

...snip...

[Darat]

The document that the headmaster wrote "Christianity and the School Curriculum" can be found here: http://www.christianpublications.co.uk//html-publications/schoolcu.htm

[Darat]

Another article he penned: http://www.christian.org.uk/html-publications/roof.htm


...snip...

For a highly successful inner-city Comprehensive school to attribute its success to its allegiance to the Absolute Truths of Biblical Christianity will therefore come as no shock to the nation, even though less than 5% of our students attend Church regularly. To teach children that they are developed mutations who evolved from something akin to a monkey as a result of a cataclysmic chemical accident and that death is the end of everything is hardly going to engender within them a sense of purpose, self-worth and respect. To present, however, the Truth that they were made by a loving and just God who sees every one of them as being of equal and real value and capable of achieving their best, and to speak of the life beyond death, creates an altogether more positive sense of responsibility, accountability and direction. Surely this is no surprise to anyone?

...snip...

[Darat]

An interview he gave a few years ago:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/breakfast_with_frost/1877651.stm

[Oleron]

Excellent background Darat. Thanks.

[Thing]

Nigel McQuoid wrote this response to critics in the Guardian.

http://education.guardian.co.uk/faithschools/story/0,,1584122,00.html

[Oleron]

Hasn't anyone ever told this oaf that when you're in a hole - stop digging!

'High priests of darwinism' indeed.....:rolleyes:

This guy wouldn't know a scientific method if he was shoved in a test tube and centrifuged.

[Lothian]

The problem if you live in the area is you send your school to Emmanuel or to Joseph Swan. Emmanuel has 96% of students getting 5 GCSE’s, Joseph Swan has 58%. Joseph Swan's added value on leaving is 985 which I understand is to be compared to 1000 at the start. Emmanuel has 1027 added value.

I think the vast differences explain why despite of the fundamentalist nature of the school parents prefer Emmanuel. However I understand (anecdotally) that there are a significant number of parents who faced with the two choices pick a third and send their children to Birtley.

[TragicMonkey]

So, if you're a christian and you're rich, why not offer to build a school for the govt? It means that the govt will let you run a state school and force-feed your religion to kids that have no other choice. Surely the national curriculum would get in the way though? Nope, apparently not. If you have the money, you can do more or less what you like with other peoples kids.

I hope the Scientologists don't read this paragraph, or they'll start building schools. They've got tons of money and they love indoctrinating people.

[Darat]

I hope the Scientologists don't read this paragraph, or they'll start building schools. They've got tons of money and they love indoctrinating people.

I hope they do - it will be a quick way to reverse the current policy (which will find itself increasingly under pressure once TB leaves us).

[brodski]

I hope the Scientologists don't read this paragraph, or they'll start building schools. They've got tons of money and they love indoctrinating people.
Although having a lot of money is a prerequisite for "sponsoring" a "city academy", spending that money is not. HMT have never revealed the amount of "private" funding for city academies, but it is known that much less has been "donated" than was originally expected, and that the "sponsors" can offer goods and services (including their time, charged at extortionate rates) in lieu of actual money.

[brodski]

it will be a quick way to reverse the current policy (which will find itself increasingly under pressure once TB leaves us). Not half as fast as an Al Quiada city accadmy would...

[Dcdrac]

Personally I think there should be no state funded faith schools at all. If you want your child to go to a faith school then pay for it.

I also would argue for the disetablishment of the Church of England too.

Church and State
Greed and Hate
Two Baboon persons in one giant Gorilla

Ape and Essence - Aldous Huxley

[CriticalThanking]

Saw the programme and it just strengthens my beliefs that we should give more air-time to the people promoting this type of evangelicalism to enable them to clearly state their beliefs and what they mean.

I think (in the UK) that is the best way to block them being able to influence policy. There is no need to campaign against them, all that is needed is for their own beliefs to be publicly exposed to persuade people that they should not be allowed to dictate policy. I have to agree - let them have all the rope with which to hang themselves.

I live in Texas - ALL HAIL BUSH (in case Homeland Security is watching). The local public radio station is giving air time to some of the lesser known candidates for governor. One of the more entertaining was the gentleman wanting a Christian state with Christian laws. He was asked about which laws he would try to change. He began listing crimes and the suggested punishments: abortion - death, adultery - death, etc. For non-capital offenses such as stealing a CD player from Wal-Mart, he simply wants fines. In fact, he wishes to do away completely with the prison system. Kill 'em, fine 'em, or let 'em go.

Of course we also need to do away with the education system. And the social system. If people can't afford to feed, clothe, educate, or give medical attention to themselves or their families, hopefully their Christian neighbors will help out.

I am looking for the link to the radio interview, but my company seems to have some standards about which websites I can visit.

CT
Beat blood cancers! (http://tinyurl.com/fyrfm)

[Tony]

The threat posed to freedom by Christian (and Muslim) fundamentalists cannot be down played. I think these "movements" represent a backlash against the ideas of the enlightenment with it's ultimate goal as being one of returning the West to christian theocratic rule.


How seriously are these types taken in the UK?

[Pauliesonne]

I really hope Michael Shermer comes to the UK!!!!!!!!

[Lothian]

How seriously are these types taken in the UK?Not very.
Religion is a private thing in the UK and people going around shouting about it are seen as freaks.

For example Blair saying that he will be judged by God on his policy in Iraq got negative headlines in the (quality) papers. I expect Bush saying similar would hardly get a mention.

This means that when someone does mention religion people tend to switch off, feeling someone else’s opinion has no relevance to their own life or their own beliefs.

Unfortunately, however, we have a Prime Minister seeking to put religion on the agenda and doing it by the back door. Inviting religious leaders to contribute to policy. Telling state ministers to look to see how they can bring religion into their department. Giving tax advantages to religious groups that don’t apply to secular charities, encouraging faith schools and legislating against criticism of religion. His successor is just as pious, almost enough to make me vote Tory :eek: .

[CriticalThanking]

Here (http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kera/news.newsmain?action=article&ARTICLE_ID=883888)is the interview with Republican Texas gubernatorial candidate Larry Kilgore. This fascinated me and scared the Jeebus out of me at the same time. :covereyes :eye-poppi

CT

[Pauliesonne]

That guy has lost his mind completely and he is without a doubt, a bonifide physcho!!!!

He's a bigger " hick " than George Bush.

If anybody on this planet needs Michael Shermer more, it is him!

[Dr Adequate]

His successor is just as pious... Brown?

NOOOOOOO!

Please tell me you're kidding.

[Mojo]

The show was presnted by Rod Liddle, a journalist who is no stranger to controversy. His primary point was that, because the British govt has adopted a policy of encouraging private industry and finance to assist in building and running state schools, this opens the door to religious groups to have a big say in what is taught to children. Not just religious groups: it seems that anti-immigration pressure groups (http://education.guardian.co.uk/newschools/story/0,,1294253,00.html) are also being allowed to set up schools. The rightwing thinktank, Civitas, the Institute for the Study of Civil Society, better known for its opposition to immigration and asylum, is to open a new school this autumn in a bid to preserve "the values and knowledge on which the survival of the culture depends".

[Mojo]

For example Blair saying that he will be judged by God... It seems he already has been: God: I've lost faith in Blair (http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1725799,00.html). :D

[Lothian]

Brown?

NOOOOOOO!

Please tell me you're kidding. I am kidding

[GreyPilgrim]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2078747,00.html

The analogy of "put the frog in boiling water and it jumps out, put the frog in tepid water and slowly heat it until it boils, and the frog stays put" seems very apt here.

Whatever the denomination or status of schools in the UK, religion plays an enormous part under the surface. My own comprehensive school was not faith based in any way and yet each morning, out daily assemblies were always kicked off with a hymn or two and to my memory they were all "thank Jesus for xxx" or "Oh Lord xxx". Before being reborn (pardon the pun) as a sceptic I never really paid a lot of attention. They were just there, and we all sang them. I recall being very uncomfortable a couple of years ago when I attended my daughters class assembly, and heard a class of infants being taught a song which went something like "if I were a fish in the sea, I'd thank the lord that I could swim...blah blah blah...but I just thank you father for making me me".

Perhaps I'm over reacting...but surely this is brainwashing, pure and simple?

I'm a little happier now that my daughter has moved onto a school where religion is taught by focusing on all of the major religions in turn. I'd much rather her experience the diversity for herself and hopefully come to her own personal conclusion (ideally that it's all ridiculous). Her school has a very diverse and rich mix of cultures so I don't think a fundamentalist teaching staff of whatever denomination would last very long.

I guess that's the problem when the argument of 'we're just giving a balanced view of what could be the truth' is used...you're not really giving a balanced view of science versus all possible religious views on the subject at all. You're just giving your own religions myths.

I've yet to see any school put Pastafarianism on their curriculum

[Mojo]

I've yet to see any school put Pastafarianism on their curriculumAfter the "Jedi" thing last time, it'll be interesting to see how many Pastafarians show up in the next census!

[GreyPilgrim]

...I've been touched by His noodly appendage.

[brodski]

I'm a little happier now that my daughter has moved onto a school where religion is taught by focusing on all of the major religions in turn.
You aer aware that all state funded schools are legaly required to have a daily Christian "collective act of worship"?The head teacher is responsible (under the School Standards and Framework Act 1998) for arranging the daily collective worship after consulting with the governing body. Daily collective worship must be wholly or mainly of a broadly Christian character. (from here http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/management/atoz/c/collectiveworshippolicy )

[sat556]

Did anybody record this program? If so, I'd really like to get a copy. Or might it be repeated?

[Dr Adequate]

The analogy of "put the frog in boiling water and it jumps out, put the frog in tepid water and slowly heat it until it boils, and the frog stays put" seems very apt here. It's not true about the frogs, though...