Renee Rynn's Color Signs

[William Smith]

Yak³



Renee, your last post directly came from the playbook of Sylvia Browne. Congratulations, you convinced me of the non-existence of your alleged knowledge.

"The religions will turn around and face me" (Post #440) Make them.

"Then all the doctors and medical clinics and hospitals, and the pharmacuticle companies will hound me." (Post #440) Make them.

In the reality I live in, your "knowledge" has no meaning. Except of wasting energy.

You had your chance. You failed to put it to good use.

[petre]

I WEEN. I SHO I HAV REEL POWR BI GETING COLR RITE, RENE REVELD AS FAK

ITZ TRU:duck:

[Levantine]

I've never understood that when a woo is getting stomped so badly by logic that they keep coming back and retconning their ideas to circumvent the discussion so far. I figured the picture-test would send Ms. Ryan packing but I have been proven wrong. It's a shame we can't apply woo-tenacity to something that might actually benefit society...

[Renee Rynn]

Numbers 3,4,5,6,and especially 7and 8 show the presence of red/pink somewhere on the body.
As far as what the hands look like, they look like the typical red chicken claw look that red produces on hands.
Those that cannot tell the difference between soft sweet looking flowing fingers on hands or hard rigid fingers on hands have lost the ability to notice the difference.

[ChristineR]

My lips are naturally red, as are several other parts of my body. My skin and fingernails are pink. Since it is impossible to eliminate red, any time anyone makes the red sign you can blame it on their lips. Your theory is pointless unless it can somehow say something Renee.

[Kimpatsu]

I WEEN.
So you is a weener? :D

[Mr. Scott]

Numbers 3,4,5,6,and especially 7and 8 show the presence of red/pink somewhere on the body.
As far as what the hands look like, they look like the typical red chicken claw look that red produces on hands.

Since Ms. Rynn has posted her opinions on the colors, I'll end the challenge and post the original color images. I swept the room and made sure there was no color anywhere but white, and I was wearing all-white. The color cards were held up against a door for each photo. The natural hand position would have been palms forward against the card, which would have put the hands and fingers in the same exact positions on all the photos -- flat with fingers spread. Instead, I held the cards up with the sides of my hands against the cards to let the fingers fall naturally into positions not under my conscious control.


Those that cannot tell the difference between soft sweet looking flowing fingers on hands or hard rigid fingers on hands have lost the ability to notice the difference.

Ms. Rynn, you are therefore included in your own ranks of people who "have lost the ability to notice the difference." My hands were completely relaxed when each photo was taken.

A number of people have sent me their guesses privately. They have been much more successful than Ms. Rynn. Some time tomorrow I'll post their results. My conclusion is that Ms. Rynn has not shown any evidence to support her "color signs" theory. In fact, she has backpedaled, hedged, and made excuses just like most every other deluded or fraudulent claimant of paranormal abilities put to an objective test.

I stand by my predictions that Ms. Rynn will not obtain the notarized affidavits necessary to apply for Randi's challenge, will not be able to negotiate a protocol, and certainly will not be able to pass a preliminary official test for the million dollar prize if she gets that far. She will never demonstrate any "color signs" ability.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/67364444345cdda5a.jpg
http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/67364444346a3bdb6.jpg
http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/6736444434786794f.jpg
http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/6736444434841c575.jpg
http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/67364444349018994.jpg
http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/67364444349d2044a.jpg
http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/6736444434a74f6f7.jpg
http://forums.randi.org/imagehost/6736444434b40a389.jpg

It could be that the person doing the cards has lipstick on, has red tinted hair or if young has her monthly period?

I "did the cards." I'm male, I never wear lipstick, have greying dark brown hair, and I'm not having my period.

Edit - grammar, additional Renee quote and response.

[hellaeon]

Renee Ryan Rant

Well you had your chance Renee, and you bummed out on a simple test. It took 13 pages just to get to that. From my own reading experience of the tests conducted by JREF, you wont get 1/5th as much dialogue before being rejected.

Cheers

[Kimpatsu]

Well done, guys. A well-designed experiment, which Renee failed.

[chillzero]

That is nothing new. The PR buisness and Commercial makers have known for years the mental impact of certain colors and their appeal to people. Why do you think that certain commercials have an abundance of green or blue?
It is, however, a purely mental connection with only limited potential in impacting actual events in life. It makes something feel more appealing to a certain segment of people, but thats all. It doesn't make them, say, commit a robbery.
Eg. the color Red is connected with two different "appeals": Love and Anger. Mostly love though.

Oh! Oh! Did you ever see Derren Brown's 'Heist' ?
He 'programmed' 4 people to commit a robbery, mainly based on a trigger from the colour green, which he had gently led them to associate with a couple of things - a just-do-it attitude, annoyance at authority and security guards in particular, and some other stuff. 3 of the 4 commited the heist on a security van.

Very interesting program, and a slightly different take on this whole colours nonsense.

[Tirdun]

Well, I didn't PM you, so you'll have to take my word for it. I got them ALL RIGHT! WOO! I'm super! :D

Oh, no, wait. I got 2 right, those being black and white (1 and 7) although I admit to wavering between 1&4 for black, so maybe I'm just remembering my best score. I got those because they converted to B&W with minimal image artifacts, I completely ignored your hands, fetching as they are, and I didn't use my super color powers.

Kudos to you sir and I guess she gets 1 right, seeing as #4 was, in fact, red.

[TheBoyPaj]

Numbers 3,4,5,6,and especially 7and 8 show the presence of red/pink somewhere on the body.

Well, that really narrowed it down then, didn't it?

It is my considered opinion that your proposal is 100% guff.

[DrMatt]

A few words of advice.

1. Visit Gallaudet University. Learn signs for some colors in American Sign Language. Then learn signs for the same colors in British Sign Language.

2. Explain your beliefs to your doctor.

[Mr. Scott]

A number of people have sent me their guesses privately. They have been much more successful than Ms. Rynn. Some time tomorrow I'll post their results.

LordoftheLeftHand (6 hits, 2 misses):

1=black
2=cyan
3=yellow
4=red
5=green
6=magenta
7=white
8=blue

(anonymous lurker) (3 hits, 5 misses):

1 - black
2 - cyan
3 - green
4 - red
5 - magenta
6 - blue
7 - white
8 - yellow

Pup (2 hits, 6 misses):

1 black
2 yellow
3 red
4 blue
5 cyan
6 green
7 white
8 magenta

petre (2 hits, 6 misses):

1. Black
2. Cyan
3. Green
4. Blue
5. Magenta
6. Red
7. White
8. Yellow

Renee Rynn (1 hit, 14 misses):

"there are other colors present in the room" (miss)
"red or pink" ... "is touching the body" (miss)
"lipstick on" (miss)
"red tinted hair" (miss)
"her monthly period" (two misses)
hard rigid fingers (miss)
(#4 red) (hit)
(#2,3,5,6,7,8 red) (7 misses)

LotusMegami (zero hits):

red
blue
yellow
purple
orange
green
blue
grey

Sorry LotusMegami, you should have read the rules.
Way to go LordoftheLeftHand.

One woo down, around six billion to go.

Now, where is my recipe book?

[petre]

Darn, knew I should have normalized the gamma. Still, the extra work I got done by not doing that will probably be of benefit :)

[William Smith]

LordoftheLeftHand (6 hits, 2 misses):
...
(anonymous lurker) (3 hits, 5 misses):
...
Pup (2 hits, 6 misses):
...
petre (2 hits, 6 misses):
...
Renee Rynn (1 hit, 14 misses):
...


[Emphasis by me]

Mr. Scott, your post made my day. Thank you. (I still keep laughing.) This is pure gold. You can't make this stuff up!

[LordoftheLeftHand]

Way to go LordoftheLeftHand.

Thanks.

I just looked at each picture and wrote down their numbers in order from darkest to lightest (in my opinion). Then I took the color list and did the same thing. I don't know if my method determined my success or just dumb luck, and honestly I'm too lazy to find out (would have to go though several similar tests), either way it was certainly not supernatural.

I just thought I would mention the method incase someone ever wants to run a similar test. Might try to create a method where this is not possible.

Anyway it was fun, thanks!

LLH

[LordoftheLeftHand]

Numbers 3,4,5,6,and especially 7and 8 show the presence of red/pink somewhere on the body.
As far as what the hands look like, they look like the typical red chicken claw look that red produces on hands.
Those that cannot tell the difference between soft sweet looking flowing fingers on hands or hard rigid fingers on hands have lost the ability to notice the difference.

This "prediction" is very odd indeed. Even if we believed your assertion that the color red had snuck into the test (lipstick, menstruation, fabric tag), it still would not make sense. According to Mr. Scott's description of the experiment the only thing he changed was the cards between each picture, meaning that this "red" would have contaminated all of the photos. How can photos 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 be contaminated by red and photos 1 and 2 not be contaminated?

Your non-committal, fluffy, woo-woo predictions do not make sense, even within your own paradigm!

LLH

[Forty-Two]

I've been lurking on this thread, and I'm impressed by the amount of patience everyone has displayed. Great job constructing a test, Mr. Scott.

I'm just surprised that Renee Rynn didn't even correctly identify the white card. It was blatantly obvious, and everyone else who guessed was able to identify it.

[Paul2]

As if the coffin of this failed theory about color needed another nail, Renee's failure to say whether she would directly answer any legitimate question about her theory must doom that theory, for reasons that are obvious to many who will read this, but perhaps not for the one who needs to realize that the most.

[LotusMegami]

It was pretty insulting Renee to say that your fingers were hard and rigid.
That's how people's hands look when they get older. Not to mention you might work with your hands, which would make them more callousy.

I was serious about the fingernails though. Nice manicure, but, you're a dude.

[hellaeon]

I find it amazing that everyone else is willing to have a stab at the colours except renee, and she is the one putting forth that her theory is bullet proof.

Can you be bothered doing another?
I should have had a crack.

[Renee Rynn]

Chillzero, you are right, the above color on internet is nonsense.
Totally done unprofessionally. It is a parlor game done for the amusement of people.
It was interesting for me to look at the colors stated above and knowing that blue colors bring out the truth, the hands still show the fingers as open in front of red color somewhere that is affecting the body and the hands turned to face the face is a dead give away to this fact.
Any test done as above would not stand a moments grace in a professional setting.

[Renee Rynn]

LotusMegami although I have been insulted on this thread, I do not intend any insult to others. When I said that the hands resembed chicken claws, I was referring to the shape that the hands were making.
I have 64 year old hands but I would not put manicure or pink creams on my hands because that would create the chicken claw look that I mentioned on my post.

[Renee Rynn]

I am not saying that there was any cream on the hands in the photos though. I did say that the color of red is the ONLY color that will part the fingers and when red color is present anywhere, it will mess up the other colors so that they give out a negative influence to the body and brain of the one that is receiving the red color on their body. With red present, the other colors become negative and will show a negative look on the hands.
If you look at the photos, there is not much of a difference to the pattern of the hands that is because the person that was holding the hands in front of the colors is aware of the hands and focusing their watch on their positions while doing it. The moment the brain is not aware of the hand positions, the hands will simulate the colors that are in nature. Perhaps the person had a pink or red underpants on? There is pink or red on the skin somewhere.

[LotusMegami]

So how do we remove the color red?

We're all mostly red on the inside! So no matter how much we cover it up,
the red blood will force our hands to say red.

And I do not want to know what color undies he wears.

[themyst]

It was interesting for me to look at the colors stated above and knowing that blue colors bring out the truth, the hands still show the fingers as open in front of red color somewhere that is affecting the body and the hands turned to face the face is a dead give away to this fact.
.

KaPow and the power of the Hindsight strikes again.

Dear Madam,

Why are you really posting here?

[William Smith]

...
There is pink or red on the skin somewhere.

Wow, that makes a lot of sense. Or does it? And even though you can't proove any of your theories, you keep on talking and posting and yakety-yak-yakin'.

This thread has a lot of similarities to the "BI Polar and training Kundalini, Serpent Power" thread.

Renee, you should consider a tag team with hondaracing011. We will call Paul Carey out of retirement, too. That makes a trifecta of terror. And entertainment for years to come. And beaucoup wasted bandwidth.

[TheBoyPaj]

Any test done as above would not stand a moments grace in a professional setting.

What professional setting would this be? The lucrative "guessing colours and getting them wrong" business?

[themyst]

What professional setting would this be? The lucrative "guessing colours and getting them wrong" business?

You are wrong, how could you say she got them wrong, she got at least one right.

[hellaeon]

Hahahaha this has provided me with quite a few laughs. That kundalini was fairly comical. Renee, just accept it, you dont have some amazing power. Simple. You cant even address a simple test no matter how professional. You should have been able to blitz it. Instead its now 'if we think about the hands positions' they dont get affected by the colours in nature. Or some tripe. So then how does the colours effect someone with sign language? You said it did effect someone doing this - and in some form of abundance (cant be bothered looking at that post to remember properly), but does this now get cancelled since:


The moment the brain is not aware of the hand positions, the hands will simulate the colors that are in nature.


Have you done research to update your theory?

*Insert Family Fued TV Game show 'wrong answer' sound*

[The_Fire]

Go to the Nostradamus thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=54601) if you want the latest of her "theory"....

[Kimpatsu]

Go to the Nostradamus thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=54601) if you want the latest of her "theory"....
I don't think I can cope with any more, thank you.
If she comes back with more woo nonsense, I'm going to start posting recipes.

[The_Fire]

Oh? Too bad. She's linking one of the verses with her handsignals.....

[Hellbound]

Oh? Too bad. She's linking one of the verses with her handsignals.....

Yeah, talk about confused.

Using Nostradamus to support your "scientific" theory is kinda like having Charles Manson appear at your trial as a character witness.

[The_Fire]

[snip] kinda like having Charles Manson appear at your trial as a character witness.

Oh...so THATS what went wrong......

[Mr. Scott]

It was pretty insulting Renee to say that your fingers were hard and rigid.
That's how people's hands look when they get older. Not to mention you might work with your hands, which would make them more callousy.

I was serious about the fingernails though. Nice manicure, but, you're a dude.

I'm going to ask readers to hold a card up against a wall in the same positions I had my hands in the photos, relax their fingers completely, and notice the resulting finger positions. I'd guess that most everyone would observe the same hand positions as mine. Gravity pulls the fingers down into a relaxed "chicken claw." Colors don't enter into it.

Your comment was serendipitous, LotusMegami, because it misled Renee Rynn into concluding I was female, which increased her misses. I'm fairly lazy when it comes to fingernail grooming. When one breaks (roughly once a month) I trim them all. I asked if it was serious because there's a lot of paranoia here and I was concerned that you might have suspected I was Renee or a Renee follower in disguise.

Renee Rynn clearly is working by her gut, and the gut is very suggestible. Once she got the idea I was female planted into her head, she jumped to the ridiculous conclusions that lipstick, red hair, or menstrual bleeding may have contaminated the experiment.

I stuck with this thread because I'm fascinated by color theory, and the psychology of credophilia (delusional woo).

Renee Rynn shows many signs of delusional woo -- a little like a split personality. One part of her is sure she's right, and another part is terrified she'd be proven wrong and causes the usual truth-avoiding symptoms of credophilia:

1) Refusal to answer direct questions about her beliefs.
2) Refusal to be objectively tested.
3) Hedging.
4) Making excuses and blaming the test takers upon failure.

If she's positive her ideas are valid, she should have no fear of being tested. But, the ideas are so important to her that she could not stand the pain of being proved wrong, so the excuses pour out in a strangely compulsive way.

I suspect that Renee Rynn is in some midlife or end-of-life crisis, and she wishes the color signs idea she's nursed much of her life would become prevailing knowledge and rid the world of suffering. I'd feel sorry for her if she went to her grave still holding out this hope.

I've got similar motives for my participation here on the JREF. I'd like to help spread the word that there most likely is nothing supernatural. Not in a grandiose way, just as another tiny voice in a tiny group of skeptics.

So Renee Rynn, here's my advice:

Face it that your life's work -- color signs -- was a completely futile waste of your time and energy. Find another way to help humanity while you still have time -- something like serving soup to a few homeless people, or volunteering for the Red Cross -- whatever fits your tastes as a contributer to making this a better world. Please don't go to your grave known only as the color signs lunatic.

[DrMatt]

Hey. Handsigns can be useful. Learn American Sign Language from native Deaf people....

[LotusMegami]

How exactly is this supposed to make the world a better place anyways?

Cure arthritis by surrounding patients with blue?

[hellaeon]

How exactly is this supposed to make the world a better place anyways?

Cure arthritis by surrounding patients with blue?

Only Renee does/will ever know the answer to this question....

[William Smith]

Only Renee does/will ever know the answer to this question....

If even her...

I feel another pointless rant coming.

[Scottie99]

Renee,

A logistical question on hand signs. Right now at this very moment I am wearing grey pants, blue shirt, red tie, black socks, gold ring, silver watch. A white hanes tshirt with a red tag, and the kicker mutli colored rainbow style boxers. Couple that in with the beige walls, brown desk, black keyboard I would venture 8-10 directly different colors (not to mention numerous shadings between the colors) are now touching or having a direct effect on my body.

Now the pants are grey and the shirt is blue would I be showing that mainly on my hands since this is the dominant colors on my body or would my hands twist in some way to show everything having an effect on me.

Really curious into the workings of this.

Thanks in advance for your reply Renee :)

Scottie

[William Smith]

Now I feel another pointless rant coming.

[Errata]

I just wanted to give my belated congratulations to Mr Scott. That was an impressive demonstration. After the first couple of pages I probably would have just written the person off as unresponsive and incoherent.

[Mr. Scott]

I just wanted to give my belated congratulations to Mr Scott. That was an impressive demonstration. After the first couple of pages I probably would have just written the person off as unresponsive and incoherent.

Thanks for the kind words. Setting up the test was fun even though if I'd put more time and thought into it, it could have been more rigorous and up to JREF standards.

Renee Rynn's last post on the JREF was the day after my "In Conclusion" post, nearly a week ago, on the Nostradamus thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=54601). Hope I shook some sense into her.

[Jackalgirl]

Chillzero, you are right, the above color on internet is nonsense.
Totally done unprofessionally. It is a parlor game done for the amusement of people.
It was interesting for me to look at the colors stated above and knowing that blue colors bring out the truth, the hands still show the fingers as open in front of red color somewhere that is affecting the body and the hands turned to face the face is a dead give away to this fact.
Any test done as above would not stand a moments grace in a professional setting.

Okay, how about you describe a test that would stand a moment's grace in a professional setting?

[Ririon]

Okay, how about you describe a test that would stand a moment's grace in a professional setting?
Not likely, unless you can figure out how to use colors to twist her arm over the net. :p

[William Smith]

I wonder what she will lay down when she returns from lurking to posting.

A test protocol?

Legal advice from her "lawer" concerning her precious secrets?

A dead Lois?

Documentation of how "religions have faced [her]" and "all the doctors and medical clinics and hospitals, and the pharmacuticle [sic!] companies ... hound [her]"? http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1566913#post1566913

A thank you note from Dubya that she did "end the wars"? (I feel with the families of the fallen.)

More pointless rants?

An application?

[The_Fire]

A test protocol would be nice. However I don't see it happening.

[William Smith]

A test protocol would be nice. However I don't see it happening.

The_Fire, seriously (giggle!): How likely is that?

Please rate it on a scale from 0 to 10. If you find the time, explain your decision.

My estimate: 0,0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001. Still mathematically probable. However, very unlikely.

Let's hear it, folks.

[Jackalgirl]

The_Fire, seriously (giggle!): How likely is that?

Please rate it on a scale from 0 to 10. If you find the time, explain your decision.

My estimate: 0,0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001. Still mathematically probable. However, very unlikely.

Let's hear it, folks.

Oh, I think that this is most likely as well. However, since Renee made a very specific criticism of Mr. Scott's test, I thought it only fair to give her the option of coming up with something better. Doesn't make me think that this claim is any less untestable than I already think it is, tho.