Dumb Public School....ranting again

[kittynh]

So today my 15 year old comes home from school to tell me about her Health Class. I know the teacher, so I give her a call ASAP when I hear about the presentation the kids got.

The teacher tells me she is so PROUD of my daughter for standing up to the "religious idiots" she was forced to have come talk to her classes. She told me they are PAID by the school to speak about abstinance - and they can get away with it as long as they don't mention GOD or JESUS. She is furious about it.

So the undercover fundies start off with a list of things you should not do before marriage. Heading the list is ......


FRENCH KISSING!!!!!!!!

At this point they kind of lost the class.

My daughter asked them "why all the emphasis on marriage? And does this apply to gay people? What about gays? "

They said they weren't allowed to comment on how they felt about gays. They did point out that being gay isn't proven by any "science". (what does that mean?)

The local "friendly" girl then told them she thinks it is good for women and men to "get some experience" before they get married. She has a very good point.

The health teacher said the parents demanded this group speak at the local school board meeting.

My problem is that I can not attend school board meetings, or even address the school board, as I do not live in the town where the school is. Our town pays tuition for the children living here to attend the high school. I was told the best I could do was write a letter to the town, and the town has to bring it up.

I just can't believe how the fundies are sneaking into out school system!

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Your daughter is awesome. Back in my (junior-)high school days I also tended to be vocal on issues. It's good to keep the schoolboard on their toes and I also found the teachers to be supportive as I was often voicing opinions that they had, but couldn't voice.

[shalomsteph]

It reminds me of when I was a sophomore in high school. We had a substitute teacher who was reading the bible instead of teaching us evolution. I told him he couldn't do that, and he sent me to the principal's officee for being disrespectful. The principal was quite accustomed to seeing me in his office, and asked what it was this time. I told him what was going on with the Biology sub, feigning concern about my grade, and how we NEEDED to LEARN. (You had to know me....I was in school to talk and keep up on gossip. That was my sole purpose.) Anyway, the principal said, "Just a second," and left me there in the office. I missed the whole confrontation! I had to get the story from someone else....but basically, the sub refused to stop reading the bible, and he was terminated on the spot by the principal. It was near the end of the day, so the principal just took over the class.

Anyway, I was famous for a day or so. I was just pissed I missed out on the biggest gossip of the day...well, and I have always stood up for what I thought was right ever since...

[Hamradioguy]

Way to go Kitten2! (And you can quote me.)
Shalomsteph, I can't top that story, but I too was something of a rebel all the same. One time in a conference between my Mom and the principal the principal said, "I'm worried about your son. He just doesn't conform." My Mom replied, "Well, that's exactly how I'm raising him." (Mom was something of a rebel too....)
We had a father-son team one or the other of whom often substitute taught and both were ministers. Neither ever so much as mentioned the Bible much less read from it. And in biology class when we got to evolution the teacher told us that we were going to spend some time on evolution, that it was scientifically accepted, and that we'd be tested on it. Any student who had a religious conflict with that could be excused but would still have to take and pass the test. That was a rather progressive Penna school district.
Kittynh, I don't understand how you can be prevented from attending school board meetings if your tax dollars go to the school (albeit via your own town). Seems sorta like taxation without (direct) representation. But there's a LOT I don't understand about New Hampshire......

[kittynh]

I know! To attend a school meeting you have to be on the tax rolls for the town. I know because I attend the big vote for the school budget every year in the town where I live. I've also attended school board meetings where there was an issue I wanted to discuss (even though my children did not attend the school, for instance I spoke about replacing the old playground - which was done later that year).

Our children sort of attend as "private" students. This means they can be kicked out whenever. The rights they have are very limited. Our town pays $14,000 a year for our learning disabled daughter to attend the high school! And we still get hardly any say!

[kittynh]

Oh, she also asked , "what if I don't ever want to get married? Should I die a virgin?"

She had them going!

[Beth]

Kitty,

I'm presuming this isn't the classes only presentation on birth control, responsible sex, etc. If it is, then I can understand your objection, but if this is just part of a more informative total curriculum, why do you object to it? I can understand that you would be worried they would sneak religious indoctrination into the class, but apparently they did not. They just gave a presentation on the value of abstinence and what might be considered the
"traditional" values of our society. Those values are religiously based for many people, but they are also common across most religions common to this country. What is exactly is your objection to that?

[LostAngeles]

So back in 9th grade, my friend and I wreaked havoc in the class. We were doing well with very little effort and so, saw it our duty to amuse ourselves as much as possible. Towards the end of the year, we were all assigned group oral reports to do on events in U.S. History. Because we were brats and morbid, we tended to ask, "How many people died?" at every report.

Well, up comes the Rebeccas and they procede to do their report on how the country has gone to hell in a handbasket since prayer was taken out of school and the divorce rate has gone up and... My parents are divorced. My friend's parents were divorced and she was raised "half-Jewish."

One of our hands went up. I think it was mine.

"No one died," a Rebecca sneered at whichever one of us it was.

"No, I wanted to ask: My parents are divorced. Does that mean I'm not as good as you?"

Now, I think that was me, because I'm fairly sure her stammering response was then followed by, "Excuse me, I'm Jewish. Does that mean I'm not as good as you?"

After a few more questions between the two of us getting tossed out there, the rest of the class joined in and started tearing the report to shreds and we just sat back and basked in the glory.

Man, those were the days.

The next year they did an oral presentation on Saul on the road to Damascus. Thankfully, it was Western Civ and therefore wasn't complete load of propaganda, but it was twice as hilarious. (They acted it out.)

As a rather sad and interesting side note, one of the girls had a brother who was a bit on the slow side and very about the Bible. Supposedly he accosted a few people in the hallways of the high school. She, being an honors student, would refuse to acknowledge him. I had no idea they were related until I met their parents.. He was always very nice to me though and I never knew him until after that incident.

[kittynh]

I object as saying stuff that questions if people ARE gay, is bad.

homophobia is rampant enough.

[Beth]

I object as saying stuff that questions if people ARE gay, is bad.

homophobia is rampant enough.

But I thought they weren't allowed to give their opinion regarding gays? Did they say that being gay was bad?

At any rate, thanks for explaining your objection.

eta: I reread your post (probably should have before I replied). They just said being gay wasn't proven by science - I assume they would have meant they believe it's a choice (just as being heterosexual is a choice right?). While I don't agree with that, it's not quite the same as questioning whether people are gay, if that's what you meant. Anyway, that's for the explanation.

[TragicMonkey]

I love it when people think homosexuality is a choice.

It means they think they can be converted to it, given the right circumstances.

I do like challenges.

[Jorghnassen]

I love it when people think homosexuality is a choice.

It means they think they can be converted to it, given the right circumstances.


It's called prison...

[TragicMonkey]

It's called prison...

I was thinking a few beers and a fireplace, but whatever. You pick your fantasy.

[ChristineR]

According to some straight people (not me) gay sex is so incredible that every straight boy can be persuaded to try it, and that once he tries it he'll be addicted and will never, ever again, do anything with his life other than cruise for sex.

I bet some gay men wish that were true.

[kittynh]

they pointed out, that there is no such thing as "gay" and that it was a "learned choice". No, make that a "learned bad choice". They weren't presented as "this is one view", the teacher HAD to accord them equal footing with her "factual" presentations. She said she is not allowed to object to anything they said. BUt she said she can respond to student questions.

I have to keep in mind that after the "french kissing" comment they lost the kids. But, I wonder how much they were paid. And Planned Parenthood is NOT allowed in the school.

[ferd burfle]

they pointed out, that there is no such thing as "gay" and that it was a "learned choice". No, make that a "learned bad choice". They weren't presented as "this is one view", the teacher HAD to accord them equal footing with her "factual" presentations. She said she is not allowed to object to anything they said. BUt she said she can respond to student questions.

I find myself increasingly angry and resentful at attempts like this by thumpers to impose their version of morality on our public institutions. I have an ongoing debate/dialogue with a fundie coworker on issues like this and I'm appalled at how many societal evils he lays at the door of gays, evolutionists etc.

Ooh, ohh, my very first post (popping sound)

[kittynh]

welcome!!!

hey post more often!!!

[valis]

"No, I wanted to ask: My parents are divorced. Does that mean I'm not as good as you?"




Wow that is some really deep thought there!

Here is a fun fact from my childhood. My parents got divorced and abandoned their kids when I was 14. From that moment on I had no adult supervision. I hung out with other kids like me. We all smoked dope drank dropped out etc. I am just now finishing college at the age of 44, which maybe ain't so bad when you consider that I have never actually been inside a high school, and I am by far the most succesfull one of the bunch. A significant number ended up dead or doing long prison terms, most of the others have such strong substance abuse problems that life consists of gettting high. What did we have in common? All the looser scum I hung with were from divorced families. True this is totally andecdotal but I never met a dead end stoner looser like myself who came from an intact two parent family.

My wife grew up in a very similar situation, we both agree, even if we both get to hate each others guts no divorce til the kid is out of college and on his own.

[LostAngeles]

Wow that is some really deep thought there!

Here is a fun fact from my childhood. My parents got divorced and abandoned their kids when I was 14. From that moment on I had no adult supervision. I hung out with other kids like me. We all smoked dope drank dropped out etc. I am just now finishing college at the age of 44, which maybe ain't so bad when you consider that I have never actually been inside a high school, and I am by far the most succesfull one of the bunch. A significant number ended up dead or doing long prison terms, most of the others have such strong substance abuse problems that life consists of gettting high. What did we have in common? All the looser scum I hung with were from divorced families. True this is totally andecdotal but I never met a dead end stoner looser like myself who came from an intact two parent family.

My wife grew up in a very similar situation, we both agree, even if we both get to hate each others guts no divorce til the kid is out of college and on his own.


Well, let's be honest here, for starters: You're finishing college. I've gone back to school myself and am working on transferring right now. Going to college and doing your thing does not make you "dead end" or a "looser." 'Kay? And further more, working for a better life or trying to be a good person regardless of your education level, makes you neither "dead end" nor a "looser." Good Jumping Jimminy!

Now, a lot of the kids I grew up with and went to school with had two parent families and were, in fact, dead end stoner losers. You said your parents abandoned you. Mine (and a few other children of divorce) worked to the best of their ability to be parents to us. It depends more on what the parents do afterwards than the divorce, I believe.

[brodski]

I have to keep in mind that after the "french kissing" comment they lost the kids.
What about "freedom kissing", is that ok?

[cbish]

So today my 15 year old comes home from school to tell me about her Health Class. I know the teacher, so I give her a call ASAP when I hear about the presentation the kids got.

The teacher tells me she is so PROUD of my daughter for standing up to the "religious idiots" she was forced to have come talk to her classes.

The health teacher said the parents demanded this group speak at the local school board meeting.

My problem is that I can not attend school board meetings, or even address the school board, as I do not live in the town where the school is. Our town pays tuition for the children living here to attend the high school. I was told the best I could do was write a letter to the town, and the town has to bring it up.

I just can't believe how the fundies are sneaking into out school system!This is too bad. We learned long ago not to accept nonsolicited guest speakers. There's always an agenda. Can the teacher approach the administration or the board?

[jimlintott]

I think these "be like us we are so perfect" speeches are a waste of time. They lose credibility with the kids way too quickly to be effective. Now if you get some crack whore with aids and six kids who lives on welfare and tricks, saying be careful you could end up like me, you get the kid's attention. This type of speaker probably has a better handle on reality anyway.

[ChristineR]

I think these "be like us we are so perfect" speeches are a waste of time. They lose credibility with the kids way too quickly to be effective. Now if you get some crack whore with aids and six kids who lives on welfare and tricks, saying be careful you could end up like me, you get the kid's attention. This type of speaker probably has a better handle on reality anyway.

The one I really hate is the reformed crack whore who realised what an idiot she/he was, stopped doing drugs, went to night school and is now making millions in real estate. That sounds to me like an argument for getting high until your family gives up on you and stops bailing you out, then straightening out and getting everybody to baby you and pat you on the back all the time.

[JamesDillon]

Kitty,

I find it very odd that you're not allowed to attend the school board meetings, despite the fact that you live in a different town. I'm not an expert, but if you were inclined to do so, you might consider seeking out a lawyer who knows about such issues (maybe the local ACLU? They might at least be able to provide a recommendation for a private attorney) and asking her opinion on the issue.

[kittynh]

it's New Hampshire!!! The rules are different here. The town I live in, everyone gets to vote on everything to do with the local school. It's pretty funny as one year Spainish is in, the next out, then in, then out....it's a running battle!

We are just trying to educate our child.

The thing that gets me is that these people were PAID.

Money.

[slingblade]

I just can't believe how the fundies are sneaking into out school system!

Color me surprised the day I came to the school where I student teach and saw a table bearing a coffee-urn full of hot chocolate and a platter of cinnamon rolls set up near my classroom, on school property. The food was free, and I was cold, and I almost got a cup, until I picked up a discarded cup to throw it away.

The cup was covered with printed Bible verses.

I don't understand how this is permitted, but I agree with your assessment on sneaky Fundies.

[kittynh]

today is yet another meeting...

We are going over the IEP word by word to see that EVERYONE understands it. The funny thing is that the Special Ed teachers are the ones breaking the IEP. The mainstream teachers go out of their way to follow it and offer support. Since my daughter is polite, and likes most adults, they go out of their way to help her. The Special Ed teachers all seem burned out. Perhaps they are. The tutor is going to suggest they just put her in all mainstream classes. This will not go over well, but hey, I sometimes think you just MEET constantly so that they school doesn't forget your kid. Or take advantage of her. It's a battle. Mind you, we have to PAY for the tutor to attend the meeting. Which is money well spent, but often I think, shouldn't the school be paying for all this extra help? Which is the only thing keeping her afloat.

[kittynh]

CUPS, with Bible verses?

Why do some Xians think just reading a few verses from the Bible is going to convert people?

[I less than three logic]

Just a few verses are all it takes because they are so amazingly well written and undeniably convincing. :D

[strathmeyer]

Why do some Xians think just reading a few verses from the Bible is going to convert people?

Because they get to pick the verses. If smart people were allowed to pick the verses, the Christians would want it to stop!

[LostAngeles]

CUPS, with Bible verses?

Why do some Xians think just reading a few verses from the Bible is going to convert people?

I don't know, but they never go with the good stuff.

"23:3 And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity. "

"23:17 And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.
23:18 So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.
23:19 Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.
23:20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses. "

I'm a dirty old woman who likes Eziekial...

[TragicMonkey]

I don't know, but they never go with the good stuff.

"23:3 And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity. "


Can I just say that I have fallen in love with the word "whoredom".

Sounds like a MMORPG set in Old Testament times. "Yea, thou hast acquired the Sword Of Harlotry and become a Level 24 Scarlet Woman. You may now raid Phoenicia as a member of the Naughty Amakelite Girls Guild."

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

You can't attend school meetings? You mean you're not in an official school district with the school? You might consider trying to get that fixed. Kind of a taxation without representation thing there.

~~ Paul

[TimmyBerry]

I don't know, but they never go with the good stuff.

"23:3 And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity. "

"23:17 And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.
23:18 So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.
23:19 Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.
23:20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses. "

I'm a dirty old woman who likes Eziekial...

*Whips out her trusty Bible*! (The new American Bible).

Ezekiel 23:17 "Then the Babylonians came to her, to the love couch, and defiled her with their intercourse. As soon as she was defiled by them, she became disgusted by them."

23:20 "She lusted for the lechers of Egypt, whose members are like that of an ass, and whose heat is like those of stallions".


What version are you looking at?

[TragicMonkey]

Ezekiel 23:17 "Then the Babylonians came to her, to the love couch, and defiled her with their intercourse. As soon as she was defiled by them, she became disgusted by them."

The Love Couch? That place closed down years ago! It wasn't the crime, but the health code violations.

[gnome]

I'd be tempted to show up to the school board meeting anyway and ask to speak. It would embarass them to have to publicly admit that a parent of a student attending one of their schools isn't allowed to speak.

[Zbu]

A significant number ended up dead or doing long prison terms, most of the others have such strong substance abuse problems that life consists of gettting high. What did we have in common? All the looser scum I hung with were from divorced families. True this is totally andecdotal but I never met a dead end stoner looser like myself who came from an intact two parent family.

You got lucky as most of the people I know to be losers were that way because they were just jerks. I knew a few people in high school who had a single parent and had problems, but most of the losers (meaning they got into all sorts of trouble and got hooked on drugs) definitely had two parents. That's just not a good measure and can be mistaken for a sort of underhanded religious thinking. Two parents do not a good child make necessarily.

[LostAngeles]

*Whips out her trusty Bible*! (The new American Bible).

Ezekiel 23:17 "Then the Babylonians came to her, to the love couch, and defiled her with their intercourse. As soon as she was defiled by them, she became disgusted by them."

23:20 "She lusted for the lechers of Egypt, whose members are like that of an ass, and whose heat is like those of stallions".


What version are you looking at?

King James.

Ahh, the Bible. The inerrant word of God messed with by the errant hand of man. :D

[kittynh]

I love the King James version. And the good old Episcopalian high service!

So today was the BIG meeting. The head of special education FOR THE WHOLE SCHOOL DISTRICT IS THERE...and he says....


"wow, don't ask me about technology. I know nothing about computers. I don't see how laptops or technology can help learning disabled students learn to read or write. The whole point is for them to learn how to do it and if they can't accept their limitations."

This is after the tutor from Landmark just talked about how Kitten2 using Dragonspeak is going to enable her to attend college, and how just a few years ago she would not have been able to as her learning disability would limit her.

She just has to ACCEPT her limitations....ahhh....

[thaiboxerken]

I just can't believe how the fundies are sneaking into out school system!

G-dub's "faith based initiatives" made this possible.

[thaiboxerken]

What is exactly is your objection to that?

My objection is that schools should not be teaching kids "values" at all. It is none of the government's business as to whether people want to marry or not, have sex or not or even stay virgins for the rest of their lives. Reproductive education is supposed to be informative about biological consequences to sexual activity. Marriage is not a function of biology.

[TragicMonkey]

So today was the BIG meeting. The head of special education FOR THE WHOLE SCHOOL DISTRICT IS THERE...and he says....


"wow, don't ask me about technology. I know nothing about computers. I don't see how laptops or technology can help learning disabled students learn to read or write. The whole point is for them to learn how to do it and if they can't accept their limitations."

I think that this guy has accepted his limitations!

[kittynh]

I just sat there thinking, "this guy is an idiot!"

The tutor had to stand up and say, "I teach college and this child could easily take one of my classes and get an A, and I don't give out easy A's.."

She was so LIVID!!!

I was just thinking of painful ways to kill the man while having a smile on my face.

[slingblade]

Well, I know I've certainly accepted his limitations. What an ignorant putz.

[LostAngeles]

I love the King James version. And the good old Episcopalian high service!

So today was the BIG meeting. The head of special education FOR THE WHOLE SCHOOL DISTRICT IS THERE...and he says....


"wow, don't ask me about technology. I know nothing about computers. I don't see how laptops or technology can help learning disabled students learn to read or write. The whole point is for them to learn how to do it and if they can't accept their limitations."

This is after the tutor from Landmark just talked about how Kitten2 using Dragonspeak is going to enable her to attend college, and how just a few years ago she would not have been able to as her learning disability would limit her.

She just has to ACCEPT her limitations....ahhh....

Are you kidding me? Damn it send the putz out here and we'll show him the "High Tech Center" and all it does for our disabled students.

I wish, I wish, I had a "Get out of Rule 8 Free" card for this guy...

[CFLarsen]

FRENCH KISSING!!!!!!!!

What's wrong with kissing the French? It's OK to kiss the Germans?

[69dodge]

So today was the BIG meeting. The head of special education FOR THE WHOLE SCHOOL DISTRICT IS THERE...and he says....

"wow, don't ask me about technology. I know nothing about computers. I don't see how laptops or technology can help learning disabled students learn to read or write. The whole point is for them to learn how to do it and if they can't accept their limitations."Oh brother.

"Wow, don't ask me about technology. I know nothing about wheelchairs. I don't see how wheelchairs can help physically disabled students learn to walk. The whole point is for them to learn how to do it, and if they can't, they should just accept their limitations."

The point of walking is not to put one foot in front of the other. The point is to get where you want to go. If a wheelchair makes that easier, and especially if it's practically impossible without a wheelchair, then use a wheelchair.

The point of writing and reading is not to make inky marks on paper with a pen, or to look at the marks that other people have made. The point is to communicate, to learn about other people's ideas and to tell them about your own. If a computer makes that easier, and especially if it's practically impossible without a computer, then use a computer.

I feel silly just typing this; it's so obvious.

[Zep]

I'm sorry in advance Kitty, but...

JESUS H CHRIST ON A POGO STICK! THAT MAN HAS NO PLACE IN EDUCATION AT ALL! If that's his attitude to learning-challenged students, what is it to all the rest of the student population? "Set low goals, achieve them easily, avoid disappointment" is his motto, it seems.

Aaaaaargh!

[articulett]

When I was a kid, I brought science to my religious class. When I was told that "God was everywhere", I said, "wow...everywhere?!...is he even in your butthole?"

Nuns don't like scientific questions.

When I was a teacher (at a public school) a Jehovah Witness kid brang in a book for the teacher to read during story time...and it was all about god's plague of locusts and such, and I told the kid, I couldn't really read that particular book because it was religious-and the kids mother came in after school and yelled at me and wanted to know why I couldn't read her kid"s special story--(I was afraid she was going to unleash a plague of locusts on me...)

That "abstinence only" plan is part of the whole religious rights hijacking of education-and it doesn't work...the statistics bear this out again and again.
This is crappy health education--because if you really want to protect children from unwanted diseases and pregnancy than you need to arm them with the facts (and maybe some pro-masturbation literature)--not fairytales that don't correspond with a sex drive honed through evolution to be particularly difficult to control. The "true love waits" clan are not the ancestors we've inherited our sex drive from--marriage is a relatively recent invention of humans--sex isn't.

How embarrassing that our children have to listen to such childish adults. Ick. Can't we stop the silliness after the Santa?

[articulett]

Oh brother.

"Wow, don't ask me about technology. I know nothing about wheelchairs. I don't see how wheelchairs can help physically disabled students learn to walk. The whole point is for them to learn how to do it, and if they can't, they should just accept their limitations."

The point of walking is not to put one foot in front of the other. The point is to get where you want to go. If a wheelchair makes that easier, and especially if it's practically impossible without a wheelchair, then use a wheelchair.

The point of writing and reading is not to make inky marks on paper with a pen, or to look at the marks that other people have made. The point is to communicate, to learn about other people's ideas and to tell them about your own. If a computer makes that easier, and especially if it's practically impossible without a computer, then use a computer.

I feel silly just typing this; it's so obvious.

Technology has been the biggest boon in teaching all sorts of kids with disabilities--it can go at a kids own pace...slow down the pronunciation of sounds in a way the human mouth can't...there are even games that respond to certain brain waves associated with concentration to help kids with ADD (and you can refine the levels as the kid progresses...) We were using computers with Special Ed. kids back in the 80's--for autistic kids it can be especially valuable in helping them communicate. I can't believe such a moron could attain such a position of authority--too bad technology doesn't cure idiocy. Yes, I'm all for letting the kids deal with their limitations--in this case their limitation is an idiot administrator--let them deal with him as they see fit (I suggest spit balls)...

[Zep]

Re: French Kissing. Have Kitten2 feign ignorance, and ask them for a demonstration. THAT would have got the class's attention! :eye-poppi

[Angus McPresley]

King James.


At the Bible Gateway (http://www.biblegateway.com/) you can browse all sorts of different versions. Here are some samples:

The New International Edition has it as:
There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

King James:
For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.

New American Standard Bible:
She lusted after their paramours, whose flesh is like the flesh of donkeys and whose issue is like the issue of horses.

The Message (what the hell is this?):
That whetted her appetite for more virile, vulgar, and violent lovers--stallions obsessive in their lust.

Amplified Bible (again, ???):
For she doted upon her paramours there, whose lust was sensuous and vulgar like that of asses or stallions.

New Living Translation:
She lusted after lovers whose attentions were gross and bestial.

New International Reader's Version:
There she had longed for her lovers. Their private parts seemed as big as those of donkeys. And their flow of semen appeared to be as much as that of horses.

There are about 20 more you can choose from.

I'm inclined to believe that this passage originally talked about penises and semen, and that all the other versions are euphemised to protect those with tender sensibilities. So if you're planning on ever reading the bible, the New International Reader's Version seems to be the one that pulls no punches.

I would so love to go to a sporting event, find the guy holding the "John 3:16" sign, and stand next to him holding my own sign that says "Eze 23:20".

[ChristineR]

Any bsylexic can tell you the virtues of a keydoard anb a spelling rekcehc.

[slingblade]

Y'know, after reading KittyNH's thread, and after what I've seen and heard as a student teacher....I still want to be a teacher. I don't want to teach in most American schools, however.

According to one of my mentors, whenever the school board or high administration wants a school principal to do something, they threaten him with his job. "Get your test scores up, or you're fired." "Get your absentee rates down, or you're fired."

What a way to run....well, anything.

Sorry you and your family, especially that hard-working Kitten, have to deal with this lunacy.

[slingblade]

Sorry, double-post.

[TragicMonkey]

Y'know, after reading KittyNH's thread, and after what I've seen and heard as a student teacher....I still want to be a teacher. I don't want to teach in most American schools, however.

According to one of my mentors, whenever the school board or high administration wants a school principal to do something, they threaten him with his job. "Get your test scores up, or you're fired." "Get your absentee rates down, or you're fired."

What a way to run....well, anything.


The principal should take a hint from David Sedaris and reply "Have me fired? I'm going to have you killed." That might give a school board pause.

[LostAngeles]

I'm inclined to believe that this passage originally talked about penises and semen, and that all the other versions are euphemised to protect those with tender sensibilities. So if you're planning on ever reading the bible, the New International Reader's Version seems to be the one that pulls no punches.

I would so love to go to a sporting event, find the guy holding the "John 3:16" sign, and stand next to him holding my own sign that says "Eze 23:20".

"inclined"? It's way obvious.

And, yes. Yes you should hold an Eze 23:20 sign.

[tsg]

I would so love to go to a sporting event, find the guy holding the "John 3:16" sign, and stand next to him holding my own sign that says "Eze 23:20".

Maybe I'm just dense (or maybe I don't really care), but what the hell does John 3:16 have to do with football?

[slingblade]

There's almost always someone in the crowd at every major American sporting event holding up a cardboard sign reading JOHN 3:16.

[Curnir]

Well why not hold up *Matt 6:5* as a reply.
:D

[jj]

How about Hab. 2:6 instead?

[tsg]

There's almost always someone in the crowd at every major American sporting event holding up a cardboard sign reading JOHN 3:16.

That I knew. What I don't know is why.

[joobie]

I would so love to go to a sporting event, find the guy holding the "John 3:16" sign, and stand next to him holding my own sign that says "Eze 23:20".

he's currently serving a life sentence in prison (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a971107.html).

[Jorghnassen]

But what about the legality of a sign saying "John 2:9" in Utah?

[articulett]

Color me surprised the day I came to the school where I student teach and saw a table bearing a coffee-urn full of hot chocolate and a platter of cinnamon rolls set up near my classroom, on school property. The food was free, and I was cold, and I almost got a cup, until I picked up a discarded cup to throw it away.

The cup was covered with printed Bible verses.

I don't understand how this is permitted, but I agree with your assessment on sneaky Fundies.

Perhaps their indoctrination method would be more successful if there were "spirits" in the cup instead of hot chocolate...

[articulett]

he's currently serving a life sentence in prison (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a971107.html).

Wow...it never stops amazing me that people keep believing in the rapture even though it never comes as planned (though some people create their own rapture as part of what they imagine to be the pre-rapture warm up, I suppose (Branch Dividians, Peoples Temple, etc.))

Religion and mental illness are a particularly bad mix it seems (just ask Andrea Yates)

[slingblade]

That I knew. What I don't know is why.

A. Prozlytizing on camera, before as large an audience as possible.
B. Showing you're a "good" christian, interested in saving souls.
C. Attention-whores for Jesus.
D. All of the above.

[screw_dog]

C. Attention-whores for Jesus.
That one's going in my signature!

[slingblade]

:) I figured someone would find it a good home.

[articulett]

A. Prozlytizing on camera, before as large an audience as possible.
B. Showing you're a "good" christian, interested in saving souls.
C. Attention-whores for Jesus.
D. All of the above.


I think tsg wanted to know what John 3:16 refers to (certainly not the horse semen passage mentioned above, right?) How are 3:16 and football related? and what about 2:9? You biblical scholars should fill us in as to what the bible says since most skeptics probably don't own bibles...(and I'm too lazy to look it up online). Let us in on the joke.

[slingblade]

John 3:16 is the passage that says "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

It has nothing to do with football--the point is that football is televised, and if you can get on camera, a lot of people will see you holding up this sign.

It was one guy who started it all (see Joobie's link above), but it has since gained other practitioners. There are at least two thoughts behind the practice (but may be many more for all I know): People might turn to this verse out of curiosity and then they'll see the Bible says Jesus was sent and died for them, out of God's love. That might convince them to accept Christ. The other is that those who bear these signs are showing everyone they are followers of Christ and are not ashamed of it. The Bible warns against being "lukewarm" in one's belief, and if anyone is ashamed of following Christ, he will turn his head from them at the judgement and say "I never knew ye."

Yes, I'm a former fundie. I'm afraid all of this makes sense to me, or at least, I understand why some folks believe it.

[pgwenthold]

I have to keep in mind that after the "french kissing" comment they lost the kids.

What about "freedom kissing", is that ok?

I know this is a couple of days late, but I just want to have this reposted, because it is just too funny.

[kittynh]

OH yeah, well she brought up the "freedom kissing" line in class. She told her teacher she was giving up French kissing for "freedon kissing" and planned to only kiss troops about to leave for the war against terrorism. Being that she is liberal minded, she informed the teacher that she was willing to freedom kiss both men and women troops.

Her teacher laughed. So she is cool.

As for this a hole probably pulling in some huge salary, I would like to say it's the teachers in the classrooms that make the difference, not him in his office in the SAU building in Concord.

I teach, just assistant teach, and it's in the classroom where things happen.

I remember my really good teachers with a smile, and a wish I could somehow find them to thank them. The bad ones, well, there weren't that many. But for the one or two that I had I think, "wow, there must have been some crap going on in their lives." But not knowing about the technology? Kitten2's LD coordinator told us that dragonspeak was no good as you had to train your computer to use it. And the problem is what?

The LD coordinator also has been insisting we enroll Kitten2 in remedial reading AGAIN. We had to sign a paper saying that we refused it. We have hired some of the best tutors in the world for this child, including her current tutor that is a college professor at the ONLY college for LD students in the US. The tutor says she doesn't need it (there reaches a point where you start working on the technology rather than beating a dead horse). But we had to sign a paper saying we are bad parents for saving our child from an hour and a half of misery every day .

[Zep]

Oh, you cruel parents! Fancy allowing your poor child to get on with learning like that, instead of doing the hours of drudgery she SHOULD be doing! Have you NO shame? :rolleyes:

PS. Anything we can do to help?

[ranson]

You want I should have him whacked?

[gnome]

The Bible warns against being "lukewarm" in one's belief, and if anyone is ashamed of following Christ, he will turn his head from them at the judgement and say "I never knew ye."

Yes, I'm a former fundie. I'm afraid all of this makes sense to me, or at least, I understand why some folks believe it.

I suppose they need to read the other parts of the bible that suggest worshipping humbly and discreetly. :) Or, they can't tell the difference between belief and expression...

[articulett]

John 3:16 is the passage that says "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

It has nothing to do with football--the point is that football is televised, and if you can get on camera, a lot of people will see you holding up this sign.

It was one guy who started it all (see Joobie's link above), but it has since gained other practitioners. There are at least two thoughts behind the practice (but may be many more for all I know): People might turn to this verse out of curiosity and then they'll see the Bible says Jesus was sent and died for them, out of God's love. That might convince them to accept Christ. The other is that those who bear these signs are showing everyone they are followers of Christ and are not ashamed of it. The Bible warns against being "lukewarm" in one's belief, and if anyone is ashamed of following Christ, he will turn his head from them at the judgement and say "I never knew ye."

Yes, I'm a former fundie. I'm afraid all of this makes sense to me, or at least, I understand why some folks believe it.


Hey, thanks. I'm glad I didn't have to look it up. So that's what it's all about. (I actually did look it up once long ago, but I forgot). So it's the bible part that tells you god kiled his and you can live happily ever after if you believe this story...

I grew Catholic, but my parents always made fun of "Jesus Freaks"...but from my reading of the bible, it seemed that Jesus was all for embarrassing oneself in the name of religion...I always wondered if the people teaching me this stuff really believed what they were saying. I wonder if the priests who molest kids actually believe god is watching them...do they believe in hell?

[articulett]

Oh, you cruel parents! Fancy allowing your poor child to get on with learning like that, instead of doing the hours of drudgery she SHOULD be doing! Have you NO shame? :rolleyes:

PS. Anything we can do to help?

I think religious parents should be forced to sign a paper saying that they realize they are making their children open to all sorts of lunacy by teaching them that "truth" comes from "faith" and "feeling"...

[tsg]

A. Prozlytizing on camera, before as large an audience as possible.
B. Showing you're a "good" christian, interested in saving souls.
C. Attention-whores for Jesus.
D. All of the above.

Ah. So nothing to do with football save the existence of a bunch of TV cameras. It makes so much more sense now.

[tsg]

I think tsg wanted to know what John 3:16 refers to (certainly not the horse semen passage mentioned above, right?) How are 3:16 and football related? and what about 2:9? You biblical scholars should fill us in as to what the bible says since most skeptics probably don't own bibles...(and I'm too lazy to look it up online). Let us in on the joke.

I had actually looked it up (I gots mad Google skillz) the first time I saw someone holding the sign. I believe my exact response was "eh, wha?"

"Attention-whores for Jesus". I like that. It would make it so much easier on the rest of us if the sign just said that...

[ChristineR]

There's a prevailing myth among Fundie Christians that (a) non-Christians have never heard the basic doctrine of redemption through the death of Christ and (b) once said non-Christians hear said doctrine, they will become fundie Christians immediately.

A minor variation states that people who have heard the doctrine and still don't buy it are "closing their hearts to God" and will in fact buy the doctrine if and when their hearts get in the right shape. If anyone knows how one goes about opening an involuntary chest pump, let me know.

[YoPopa]

"The whole point is for them to learn how to do it and if they can't accept their limitations."
Wow, the SpEd director actually said that? Ask him if the world would be any better off if Stephen Hawking would just accept his limitations.

You & pool boy are the only parents I ever heard of that declined a service for their kid that was recommended but unnecessary. :clap: Mrs. Popa is a speech therapist in the local elementary. Most parents don't question anything. Those that do are always the vocal minority who want every service available for their little darling even when the service is unnecessary. The poor kids spend hours each day out of the classroom costing the tax payers tons of money for nothing.