Dr Hovind

[karros]

Finally "dr" hovind has given me "proof" of a creator. Here it is:

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the
world
are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even
his
eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate
Designer
who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no
end. But
here are a few:
The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding
gravity
holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending
about
50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an
atmosphere
would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its
atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.4 Earth is the
only
known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases
to
sustain plant, animal and human life.

The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the
temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees.
If the
Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any
closer
and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's
position to
the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this
perfect
distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of
nearly
67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire
surface of
the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing
can
survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of
water
(about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the
characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows
us
to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while
keeping
our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that
thousands of
chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies
and
into the smallest blood vessels.6

Water is also chemically inert. Without affecting the makeup of the
substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be
absorbed and used by the body.

Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow
upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the
top
of even the tallest trees.

Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the
winter.

Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our
Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and
then
distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the
ocean
waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by
the
wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and
people. It
is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this
planet, a
system of recycled and reused water.7

Ps something interesting about the Bible.

Genesis 1:1 ¶In the beginning (time) God created the heaven (space)
and
the earth (matter).

The Bible and the Immune system

The Bible Instructs that male babies are to be circumcised on the
eighth day
(Genesis 17:12) Medical science has now discovered that this is the day
that
the coagulating factor in the blood called prothrombin, is the highest.
It
reaches its peak on the eighth day, then drops. Medical science has
also
discovered that this is when the Human body's immune system is at its
peak.

Since the Bible was written over two thousound years ago how is it that
it
was Known to circumscise someone on the eighth day?

I would say that the God who desighned the human body also wrote the
Bible.

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but
holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

[Zep]

I'll bet he can't spell "data-mining".

[AnotherSillyAlias]

I was sort of waiting for the punchline ....

[karros]

and asked for peer reviewed studies concerning the 8th day thing. Also I requested they were secular in nature.

[Pauliesonne]

circumcisim question....

circumcisim answer = http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH135_1.html

as for the Complexity Crap = http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CI/CI101.html

[Pauliesonne]

also wrote the
Bible.



Then God must not be very original.......

[Roboramma]

Since the Bible was written over two thousound years ago how is it that
it
was Known to circumscise someone on the eighth day?
Trail and error? You don't have to know why it's better to know that it is. And they'd probably had a lot of experience with this practice.

[Bone_Vulture]

I was finally struck with the typical Finnish winter flu, so I'm currently in a weakened state. And after reading that parcel of insanity, I'm no longer confident that I'll have the willpower to bear through two hours of Hovind's ramblings. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=53605)

Honestly, it's all so clear now. What if gravity made things fall upwards? We'd all float into space and die! What if instead of water, the Earth would be filled with seas of sulphuric acid? We'd all die of thirst! What if Earth were on a rectangular orbit, and not a near round one around the Sun? We'd both freeze and burn to death! MUST BE JEBUS!

[wollery]

The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.Not entirely accurate, the Earth could be a bit smaller or larger and still hold a breathable atmosphere, let's face it Venus is smaller than Earth and has an incredibly thick, dense atmosphere of CO2, Methane and Sulphur!

Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.Emphasis on known. This is the only system we have complete data for, and the Earth is the only planet in the habitable zone. Speaking of which......

The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.
The habitable zone for our Solar system runs from just outside the orbit of Venus to about the asteroid belt, ~0.9AU to ~1.1AU, giving up to 10% variation. And the Earth doesn't maintain a "perfect" distance from the Sun, it varies by 5 million kilometres over the course of a year. Axial rotation is a result of conservation of angular momentum, and it occurs for all planets (although Mercury is synchronous, Venus is retrograde and Uranus is on its side!).

[Skeptic]

The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding
gravity
holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending
about
50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an
atmosphere
would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its
atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter

Gee, life evolved on a planet which had the original initial conditions friendly for life???

What are the chances of that?

Obviously Dr. Hovind had never read Candide, or he would have added the fact that our noses are just the right shape to put glasses on to the list of amazing coincidences that prove God's existence.

[ImaginalDisc]

The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding
gravity
holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending
about
50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an
atmosphere
would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its
atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter

Gee, life evolved on a planet which had the original initial conditions friendly for life???

What are the chances of that?

Obviously Dr. Hovind had never read Candide, or he would have added the fact that our noses are just the right shape to put glasses on to the list of amazing coincidences that prove God's existence.


But, is a world that no longer has fire breathing T-Rexes truely the best of all possible worlds?

[Ed]

The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding
gravity
holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending
about
50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an
atmosphere
would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its
atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter

Gee, life evolved on a planet which had the original initial conditions friendly for life???

What are the chances of that?



Actually, life of a certain sort, consistant with the conditions on earth, evolved.

This man has no notion of the concept of cause and effect. Actually, it is not odd. The religious see man as the manifestation and image of god. That being the case the idea that things follow from man rather than the reverse is not logically inconsistant, in fact it is demanded. His is a very nice, self contained lunacy. It is almost like a paranoid delusional system: consistant and reasonable as long as you accept the initial premise. The initial premise is that god created man etc. and holding that as true is a matter of faith. And therein lies the rub.

BTW, this thread strats out as though it is page two. What is the background? Why are you guys corresponding?

[ChristineR]

Do you know what visible light is? Visible light is light in that part of the spectrum where water vapor is transparent! If God really cared about us He'd have made water transparent to a much larger range of color, and given us the ability to see all those cool colors like ultraviolet and infrared and x-ray. :)

[Freethinker]

Water is a universal solvent.

If it was, it would dissolve any container you tried to store it in. Although water is the most universal solvent we know of, it is not a universal solvent.

Water is also chemically inert.

Throw some phosporous trichloride or tribromide in a bucket of water and see how inert it is. Water doesn't react with things in nature very often because IT ALREADY FREAKING REACTED WITH THE THINGS IT WILL REACT WITH. Water is everywhere, so there wouldn't be many things in nature that would react with water. They'd be used up.

"Dr." Hovind, you need to learn some 7th grade science and some preschool common sense.

[rharbers]

The Bible and the Immune system

The Bible Instructs that male babies are to be circumcised on the
eighth day
(Genesis 17:12) Medical science has now discovered that this is the day
that
the coagulating factor in the blood called prothrombin, is the highest.
It
reaches its peak on the eighth day, then drops. Medical science has
also
discovered that this is when the Human body's immune system is at its
peak.

Since the Bible was written over two thousound years ago how is it that
it
was Known to circumscise someone on the eighth day?



Why even circumcise a child in the first place? Why would a creator give humans foreskins if they weren't needed? What is this religious infatuation with the penis?

[Stitch]

Did Dr Hovind get his Phd out of a box of cornflakes?

[Stitch]

Why even circumcise a child in the first place? Why would a creator give humans foreskins if they weren't needed? What is this religious infatuation with the penis?

<sticks hand in the air>
Oh Oh, me, me, pleeeeeeease, I know, I know


God gave you a foreskin so you can cut it off and show god how loyal you!! :D

[Freethinker]

<sticks hand in the air>
Oh Oh, me, me, pleeeeeeease, I know, I know


God gave you a foreskin so you can cut it off and show god how loyal you!! :D

How do women show how loyal they are?

[Skeptic]

Did Dr Hovind get his Phd out of a box of cornflakes?

In effect, yes.

Here is his alma mater, "Patriot University":

http://web.archive.org/web/20000123155518/http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Temple/9917/evolution/pucampus.jpg

(No, I'm NOT making this up... honest! See "The Wild, Wild, World of Kent Hovind": http://web.archive.org/web/20000123155518/http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Temple/9917/hovind/wild_hovind.html )

[Pauliesonne]

That's the most pathetic thing I have EVER seen!!!!

[karros]

I think I am going to respond to him with some of this (not the smart ass comments I dont want him to run away) and see what he says. But to answer a question. I offered "Dr." Hovind a challenge. If he could prove the existance of a creator and it doesnt have to be beyond a reasonable doubt to make it fair, I would take the steps necessary to be saved. He agreed and after a lot of talk of the power of cayanne pepper and how god loves his children he finally gave me the proof I posted.

Ill keep you guys updated as I get deeper into this.

I hope God will bless each an everyone of you. Except those he must kill for the sake of Isreal or who home and family he must destroy to prove a point to the devil. Oh, and anyone of you that might be tortured and crucified to prove his love to us. Otherwise God Bless!

[Jon.]

Can anyone say "anthropic principle"? I bet Kent can't.

[Jon.]

How do women show how loyal they are?
By marrying a circumcised man?

[Upchurch]

How do women show how loyal they are?
Obviously, they aren't in the eyes of God.


:boxedin:

[Freethinker]

Obviously, they aren't in the eyes of God.


:boxedin:

Hopefully there's plenty of room in that box, because that was my point as well.:)

[Upchurch]

Hopefully there's plenty of room in that box, because that was my point as well.:)

This would have been a better one, had I thought of it: :dig:

[ImaginalDisc]

Oh. Karros, if you're going to respond to "Dr." Hovind about this, I'll nitpick his points, that others here haven't gotten to yet.


Water...colorless

Nope. Water is blue. It's not a major point, but honestly.
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~etrnsfer/water.htm
...the work described below demonstrates that water has an intrinsic color, and that this color has a unique origin. This intrinsic color is easy to see, and has been seen by the authors in the Caribbean and Mediterranean Seas and in Colorado mountain lakes. Because the absorption which gives water its color is in the red end of the visible spectrum, one sees blue, the complementary color of red, when observing light that has passed through several meters of water. This color of water can also be seen in snow and ice as an intense blue color scattered back from deep holes in fresh snow. Blue to bluegreen hues are also scattered back when light deeply penetrates frozen waterfalls and glaciers.


It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows
us
to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while
keeping
our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

Water alone does this? Water's not really so great for this job. A better fluid for radiating away hear would be anomia. We cool off in warm environments really poorly, and in cold environments, the water in our body doesn't help to warm us, our metabolic activity does. In fact, large parts of the world routinely have seasonal temperatures at or below the freezing point of water, putting us in serious danger of permenant damage.

Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our
Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and
then
distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the
ocean
waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by
the
wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and
people. It
is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this
planet, a
system of recycled and reused water.7

Then please explain to me why less than 1% of the water on the planet is fit for human consumption. Wouldn't a world designed for humans have estuaries and fresh water bodies all over it, instead of saline oceans?

[Jon.]

But, is a world that no longer has fire breathing T-Rexes truely the best of all possible worlds?

If only we hadn't torn all their arms off!

[Anti_Hypeman]

He briefly mentioned another speach about leviathan the fire breathing dragon. I am dying to hear that one. The sad part is a large percentage of the population wants this taught as science.

[Zep]

Please remember, folks - Kent Hovind has not got all his oars in the water...

[karros]

alright to answer my question about the forskins he gave me an VERY INTERESTING REPLY!!!!! Seriously I dont know how I did not see this before. Ok all he did was give me the same email this time with pictures. I instant messaged him but he said he was too busy to worry about saving my soul. I asked him if god would love him for that and he didnt reply.

[ImaginalDisc]

alright to answer my question about the forskins he gave me an VERY INTERESTING REPLY!!!!! Seriously I dont know how I did not see this before. Ok all he did was give me the same email this time with pictures.

Pictures of foreskins? Please, don't share.

[rharbers]

alright to answer my question about the forskins he gave me an VERY INTERESTING REPLY!!!!! Seriously I dont know how I did not see this before. Ok all he did was give me the same email this time with pictures. I instant messaged him but he said he was too busy to worry about saving my soul. I asked him if god would love him for that and he didnt reply.

What was that reply?

[karros]

that apply for the JREF challenge. I asked him for one peer reviewed study that proves the idea of the 8th day being the humans peak immune system day. He replies with this:

Who is tom bridge?

What must you do to be saved?

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.

1 John 3:4 ¶Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Luke 12:2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
3 Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.
4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. Mathew chapter 25
31 ¶When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 ¶For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Please also look at context of these verses (KJV).
please send any questions or comments to me

[ImaginalDisc]

that apply for the JREF challenge. I asked him for one peer reviewed study that proves the idea of the 8th day being the humans peak immune system day. He replies with this:


I think someone needs to tell him that the bible is definately not peer reviewed.

[ChristineR]

Well, for future reference, you might send him this link.

TalkOrigins on circumsion on the eighth day (http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH135_1.html)

I love that site.:lovestruck:

[Humphreys]

Kent Hovind is a sandwich short of a sandwich.

[BJQ87]

He gives a lot of usefull information...thats about it. Not much of an argument.

[Freethinker]

He gives a lot of usefull information...thats about it. Not much of an argument.

I don't see anything useful or informative in any of what "Dr." Hovind wrote. It seems to be randomly selected bible verses.

[jj]

He gives a lot of usefull information...thats about it. Not much of an argument.

What "information" can you show me? Remember, information is more than words randomly connected, unless we're talking about Shannon entropy here, rather than contextual information.