Government Casinos

[corplinx]

I was looking at the numbers for how much gambling tax revenues bring in for the casinos in Mississippi. I started wondering if the government ran casinos themselves and all profit went into the public coffers, it might be possible for a state with low taxes like Mississippi to get rid of their income tax altogether.

Would government casinos be a bad thing? Would you rather your casinos be controlled by untouchable mafiosos or weasel politicians?

I dont have any preconceived ideas here, I'm just wondering what the rest of you think.

[Cain]

How are casinos productive? Your blunt proposal clearly describes an establishment where people enter with money, and leave with less money.

Casinos prey on the desperate circumstances of poor people (which leads to a host of social ills).

However, I do find it difficult to square these beliefs with my anti-paternalistic views. Who am I to restrict free-willing individuals from spending their money as they please? But that's a hollow view of freedom. Truly free choices are voluntary (no background forces) and informed (awareness of the odds in this case).

The successful casinos are resolutely opposed to the thought of a skilled player taking them for money in the long-run. Indeed, most of their games are designed for chance, and card-counters (some of the hardest working people in the world) are forcibly removed from the premises and asked not to return.

[Brooklyn Dodger]

Originally posted by corplinx
I was looking at the numbers for how much gambling tax revenues bring in for the casinos in Mississippi. I started wondering if the government ran casinos themselves and all profit went into the public coffers, it might be possible for a state with low taxes like Mississippi to get rid of their income tax altogether.

Would government casinos be a bad thing? Would you rather your casinos be controlled by untouchable mafiosos or weasel politicians?

I dont have any preconceived ideas here, I'm just wondering what the rest of you think.

Why are you posing this as a question of either government casinos or mafia run casinos? Where in the United States is either the case? To my knowledge, there are none run by the government. Some are on Indian land. All are in private hands. They all pay taxes, which is where the tax money comes in that you refer to.

There was at one time heavy mob influence in the casino industry. That has been eliminated because of the desire of the states to draw tourists to "family" destinations such as Las Vegas, which would not be possible if the mob retained control. Licensing was instituted, and the mob was gradually removed. By the way, gaming itself was actually on the up and up even in the mob days, since even the mob realized that owning a casino was a license to print money.

[Dancing David]

The only problems I see with gambling are two fold:

1. They create jobs but they don't really create new economic growth, sort of shuffle it around thing. So I think they are a zero sum thing.

2. Illinois said when they made the lottery that it would go for education, but for every dollar the lottery brought in, they took a dollar out. Honest politicians, eh? (Illinois, first in corruption!)

OH, the mob doesn't run the Casinos, sure, and if I clap my hand Julia Roberts will play Tinkerbell again. They also supprt the NRA and keep drugs and prostitution illegal.(Trolling!)

Peace
dancing David

[Brooklyn Dodger]

Originally posted by Dancing David
The only problems I see with gambling are two fold:

1. They create jobs but they don't really create new economic growth, sort of shuffle it around thing. So I think they are a zero sum thing.

2. Illinois said when they made the lottery that it would go for education, but for every dollar the lottery brought in, they took a dollar out. Honest politicians, eh? (Illinois, first in corruption!)

OH, the mob doesn't run the Casinos, sure, and if I clap my hand Julia Roberts will play Tinkerbell again. They also supprt the NRA and keep drugs and prostitution illegal.(Trolling!)

Peace
dancing David

If you say mobs run casinos, you will have to offer some evidence. As far as prostitution, in Nevada, where there is legal prostitution in most counties except in the counties where Las Vegas and Reno are located, the casinos are vehemently against the brothels. They constantly fight to get them closed so they can palm off LV & R as family vacation destinations. Yes, prostitution remains, but that's despite the casinos not because of them.

Concerning the NRA, your point is obscure. The mob is big in cities. The cities are notorious for being run by two things: mobs and liberal politicians. They all have a third characteristic in common: they all have draconian anti gun laws. So you are going to have to explain your reference better than you have. I'm willing to listen, but your points this far are not supported so far as I can see.

[Dancing David]

Trolling!

The mob influence in the gaming industry was found even by our most corrupt former governer's commision of inquiry. And here in Illinois it is the big money rightists that run the cities not the liberals! So they must support gun control.

Peace
dancing David

[Tmy]

If the government ran the casino theyd f-up everything. Like here in Mass they run the lottery and theyve had their share of contraversy. Its easier to leave in in the hands of pros and just collect the money.

Sure you go into a casino empty your pockets and leave. Same things happen at Disneyland.

[Brooklyn Dodger]

Originally posted by Dancing David
Trolling!

The mob influence in the gaming industry was found even by our most corrupt former governer's commision of inquiry. And here in Illinois it is the big money rightists that run the cities not the liberals! So they must support gun control.

Peace
dancing David

In Illinois the big money rightists run the cities? Is that another name for the Daly Machine?

Gambling in Illinois, eh? Is that why the big time casino is in Indiana, right across the state line?

[Jocko]

Originally posted by Dancing David
Trolling!

The mob influence in the gaming industry was found even by our most corrupt former governer's commision of inquiry. And here in Illinois it is the big money rightists that run the cities not the liberals! So they must support gun control.

Peace
dancing David

I lived in Chicago most of my life, and I think Mayor Daley would spoon-feed you your own lips if you called him a big-money rightist. He's a populist, but an affirmed democrat.

I must admit that I don't know the makeup of governments in Peoria, Rock Island, Normal, Champaign... even Springfield. But since Chicago and its burbs hold nearly 50% of the population of Illinois, I can't see your point that "rightists" run anything, especially now that Rod's at the helm. Even Ryan was too horsewhipped to enact anything like a conservative agenda. He even put the moratorium on the death penalty and fought for his political life practically since the day he was elected.

Not saying he didn't deserve it, but he had no chance to put a "rightist" slant on policy any more than Daley would.

[Baker]

Would you be able to get a tax exempted from your gambling losses?

[Brooklyn Dodger]

Originally posted by Baker
Would you be able to get a tax exempted from your gambling losses?

Currently, if you keep good records you can deduct gambling losses from gambling winnings.

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by corplinx
I was looking at the numbers for how much gambling tax revenues bring in for the casinos in Mississippi. I started wondering if the government ran casinos themselves and all profit went into the public coffers, it might be possible for a state with low taxes like Mississippi to get rid of their income tax altogether.

Would government casinos be a bad thing? Would you rather your casinos be controlled by untouchable mafiosos or weasel politicians?

I dont have any preconceived ideas here, I'm just wondering what the rest of you think.

corplinx, I can see how your plan may seem like the logical thing to do since it would be quite efficient to simply cut out the middle man, and have the government do all of the work on their own.

However, there are some real problems in doing this sort of thing.

The fact is, governments have never been very good at building and growing private businesses. For this sort of thing to be done, one needs to be flexible and and fast and those are two things the government is not.

Therefore, I think that it is better that private companies run the gambling with the government taking its cut and providing the supervision needed to keep everyone honest. This is the sort of thing that the government is really good at.

I hope this helps!

[GrapeJ713]

Originally posted by Crossbow


corplinx, I can see how your plan may seem like the logical thing to do since it would be quite efficient to simply cut out the middle man, and have the government do all of the work on their own.

However, there are some real problems in doing this sort of thing.

The fact is, governments have never been very good at building and growing private businesses. For this sort of thing to be done, one needs to be flexible and and fast and those are two things the government is not.

Therefore, I think that it is better that private companies run the gambling with the government taking its cut and providing the supervision needed to keep everyone honest. This is the sort of thing that the government is really good at.

I hope this helps!

I concur totally, most governments would have problems running a lemonade stand. When I first got out of the military I had to go to the VA hospital to get treated for TB exposure. I didn't have TB but they found that I was exposed on my exit physical, so I would have gotten it, if left untreated. It took me 4-6 hours to see a doctor every time I went down there. Sometimes I have to wait at a private doctor now, but I have never waited 4 hours for a simple procedure.
Just look at the track record of nationalized (companies taken over by force by the government) industries in the last century. Government chases away smart and productive people and mucks up whatever the company was doing correctly in the first place.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by GrapeJ713

Just look at the track record of nationalized (companies taken over by force by the government) industries in the last century. Government chases away smart and productive people and mucks up whatever the company was doing correctly in the first place.

Quite the opposite has happened here with the railways. Government privatised the railways and chases away all the competent engineers and other productive people so that private companies can ruin our priceless national assest for shareholders profit.

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by Brooklyn Dodger


In Illinois the big money rightists run the cities? Is that another name for the Daly Machine?

Gambling in Illinois, eh? Is that why the big time casino is in Indiana, right across the state line?

Yeah, one democratic mayor against the power of the suburbs and the 'collar counties'. The big money republicans run Illinois from top to bottom, that is why our predominately republican state continues to elect Dixon, balance in power and all. Does the phrase 'tollway commission' ring a bell? Why should the rest of us in Illinois care about the tollway?

I did not mean to smear Daley JR, he sure aint his old man. The Daley machine died a while back, I wish that Gov. Rod was a true democrat and not some slick willy version.

In the past the graveyard vote used to be balanced, now it is decidedly Republican.

Ask not for whom the bell trolls, it trolls for thee.

Peace
dancing David

[WildCat]

Originally posted by Dancing David

The Daley machine died a while backPeace
dancing David
Are you serious? Well it must be true, Daley himself will tell you so. :rolleyes:
Tip of the iceberg: (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-0303270298mar27,1,2468406.column?coll=chi%2Dnews%2 Dcol)(Warning - registration required)
On Sunday, I reported that the FBI had seized documents from a company with political ties to his administration as part of a federal investigation into a suspected interstate auto theft ring involving thousands of improperly towed cars.
Nah, no Daley machine to see here.
Or here: (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-0304020151apr02,1,7392786.column?coll=chi%2Dnews%2 Dcol) (registration required)
Will it be another $500 million park--the bond financing arranged by the influential bond seller Tony Fratto, finally costing a billion in real money?
Or will it become a casino?

One thing it's not anymore is an airport. It was chopped up before the Friends of Meigs Field could get to a judge. But Daley is the one who elects judges.

Compared to other things he's done, Meigs is chump change, almost insignificant in dollars and in the exercise of power.

The other things weren't done at night. They were done during broad daylight, hundreds of millions of dollars worth of deals paid for by taxpayers.

The wrought iron from his pals, the concrete flower boxes, the asphalt, the gargantuan salt contracts, the salt spread so heavily each night in winter that city crews had to sweep the pasty choking stuff off the Loop streets in the morning.

The French bus shelter deal went through, with his allies on the CTA board attached. When Michigan Avenue merchants balked, they were threatened with blackmail by CTA boss "Honest" Frank Kruesi--their names and businesses were to be plastered on buses.

Or that goofy $600 million Soldier Field renovation--which squats rudely on the lakefront like a fat man trying to squeeze into a pair of tiny shorts.

Or the ridiculously expensive lakefront Millennium Park (Fratto's Field), the phony government minority contracts diverted instead to pink guys with Outfit connections, the car towing deals and so on.

Meanwhile, Daley's brothers get rich on zoning work and the political selling of insurance, and he sneers at those who dare question him.

Clearly there is no Daley machine at work here, must be the big $$ Republicans.

Originally posted by Dancing David:
Does the phrase 'tollway commission' ring a bell? Why should the rest of us in Illinois care about the tollway?
I'm sure none of the goods downstate ever got there via the tollways. :rolleyes:

[schplurg]

Some are on Indian land. All are in private hands. They all pay taxes, which is where the tax money comes in that you refer to.
Indian casinos in California pay no taxes, although they do contribute millions to political campaigns. The biggest casino in the country is an Indian casino. It's called Foxwoods and is in Connecticut. They pay no taxes, and are regulated very little, if at all. I've seen this place on TV and it is absolutely MASSIVE.

Not sure how good of a source this site is, but there are tons of similar articles online...
An Article (http://www.casinoman.net/content/news/newstemplate.asp?artid=466)

In 1993, the deal was signed and Connecticut lost commercial property tax on a 2,000 acres that houses a billion-dollar industry annually along a state highway. The 23 restaurants in the Foxwood Casino serve more alcohol and food than any other place in Connecticut and the state receives zero sales tax from the revenue. Also, Connecticut does not receive revenue from admission tax, yet Foxwood is the state's largest venue that offers more entertainment than anywhere else in the state; nor does the state receive corporate income tax from the $2.5 billion Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun generate each year.


"This is not a good deal. It's a tremendous deal if you're Foxwoods or Mohegan Sun. Not only do we not get any of the revenue, but also we get all the baggage. We get 75,000 vehicles per day. The two casinos in the state generated 23,000 jobs; most of the employees did not live in eastern Connecticut until the casinos went up, said Benedict. "We have to find affordable housing for them. We have to find a mode of transportation for them. Our schools incur the costs of hundreds and thousands of students who now go to the schools. According to Benedict, that is the lie behind the PR myths that are promoted by the people who bring in casinos.
I doubt government casinos would be a good idea, but these indian ones sure don't help us..."us" meaning everyone in the country that isn't on the top of the tribes 'totem pole'. Even on the resevations, the rich get richer, the poor stay poor.

[Brooklyn Dodger]

If they don't pay taxes they should.

[Baker]

Originally posted by Brooklyn Dodger


Currently, if you keep good records you can deduct gambling losses from gambling winnings.

That was meant to be a joke but it does bring up a good question are you taxed just for your winnings then you should be able to minus the losses of the total amount.

[Brooklyn Dodger]

Originally posted by Baker


That was meant to be a joke but it does bring up a good question are you taxed just for your winnings then you should be able to minus the losses of the total amount.

Yes you can. However, the records must be carefully kept. That means not approximations, which IRS does not accept. For example, you will have to enter the amount you bring to a table, amount you leave with, each and every time. So far as meals, this is deductible only if you are a professional I believe. The time to ask is before your next trip.

Records have to include such things as the casino you are in, the game, exact amounts, and so on. If you do keep good records you will have far better chance of surviving the audit.

Oh, and that's another thing. Professional gamblers are virtually guaranteed an audit, and amateurs who deduct against winnings nearly always get one. In either case, good paperwork really helps. Not only that, let's say you go to Las Vegas and you hit a jackpot. Well, you had better start keeping a ledger because you are going to be looked at closely if you deduct anything on that trip.

[WildCat]

Well, we're one step closer here in Chicago: (http://www.nbc5.com/news/2184905/detail.html)
Mayor Richard Daley said Tuesday that the city is ready to roll the dice on a casino if the city owns it.
Looks like more patronage jobs for the Daley machine.

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by corplinx
I was looking at the numbers for how much gambling tax revenues bring in for the casinos in Mississippi. I started wondering if the government ran casinos themselves and all profit went into the public coffers, it might be possible for a state with low taxes like Mississippi to get rid of their income tax altogether.

Would government casinos be a bad thing? Would you rather your casinos be controlled by untouchable mafiosos or weasel politicians?

I dont have any preconceived ideas here, I'm just wondering what the rest of you think.

I believe America's love affair with gambling is cyclical. To lean heavily on any revenue generated by gambling would therefore be a bad mistake. When we fall out of love with gambling again, bye-bye revenue.

Look at the lottery. Several states have already changed their laws so they may raid the principal money brought in by the lottery. Therefore, less interest will be made. And therefore, they will feel compelled to raid the principal again to make up for the shortfall. And then you snowball downhill from there. They have also increased the odds of winning dramatically to try to increase the principal.

I believe whether Americans understand the math or not, they will instinctively figure out something is awry sooner or later, and then the lotteries will collapse.

Then the state governments are going to be in a huge mess. One big crap sandwich, and we'll all have to take a bite.

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by Brooklyn Dodger


Currently, if you keep good records you can deduct gambling losses from gambling winnings.

What you are saying is that you add up your winnings and losses, and then pay taxes on any money you made. But if you lost more than you made gambline, you don't get to deduct that from your income tax.

[Brooklyn Dodger]

Originally posted by Luke T.


What you are saying is that you add up your winnings and losses, and then pay taxes on any money you made. But if you lost more than you made gambline, you don't get to deduct that from your income tax.

That's correct. You can only go to the amount of your gambling income. I am not sure if that changes if one is a "professional gambler" or how one proves one is one of those. In short, the rules are pretty similar to most hobbyist income/loss situations, but even more struct in that you can't go beyond income. Note that mine is not final information, and you should seek professional advice.

By the way, only gambling income made in the US is reportable. Gambling income made in Puerto Rico is not. Also, gambling income below a certain amount will generally fall below the IRS radar screen.

[Dancing David]

Hell Cat: sorry yesterdays post disappeared.

I agree that the daley machine has some real power. But does it compare to the power of Big Money and the Republicans in the suburbs and the collar counties?

More patronage jobs? How about the last Govenor trying to give his friend those great promotion right before he left, besides the whole rent from the friend of Ryann thing. Besides the way all the state money flows to contruction while we bankrupt pharmacies and nursing home.

I agree that Chicagoland and the area deserves its fair share of revenures. The tollway thing just bugs me on a personal basis. I don't mind paying tolls when I use it. I just balk of the idea of adding it as another drain on the state coffers.

Is our state still doing the no bid contracts? And I can't remember which party did Paul Powell come from, he was a gem amongst our corrupt state officials.

Greeting from the Home of Flatville and Foosland!

I vote independantly and I did vote for Edgar twice. The Daley machine is not cool, I thought H. washington pretty much rode ot down.

Peace

[WildCat]

Originally posted by Dancing David
Hell Cat: sorry yesterdays post disappeared.

I agree that the daley machine has some real power. But does it compare to the power of Big Money and the Republicans in the suburbs and the collar counties?

More patronage jobs? How about the last Govenor trying to give his friend those great promotion right before he left, besides the whole rent from the friend of Ryann thing. Besides the way all the state money flows to contruction while we bankrupt pharmacies and nursing home.

Hey, I'm not defending the Illinois Republicans at all. Problem in IL is that the Reps. and Dems have gotten together to fleece the taxpayers for all it's worth. Both parties in this state have such a history of backroom deals and sleaze-mongering (if that's even a word!) it's sickening.
The whole political culture here needs changing, I'm not sure if Rod is the man to do it, only time will tell.

[Dancing David]

And I called you hell cat oops, sleaze mongering has a very nice ring to it.

Peace