Diabeticine: Asian Herbal "Cure" for Diabetes

[Hardenbergh]

I have noticed that there are a number of threads about diabetes but I couldn't find the product "Diabeticine" when I searched the forums. This product is also mentioned (although not by name) in Kevin Trudeau's book, Natural Cures 'They' Don't Want You to Know About. It was developed by Dr. Yung Su Kim. I wasn't sure if I should post this in the skeptics forum or the science & medicine forum.

Here's a testimonial on the home page:

Does Diabeticine Work? My answer to you is "YES, DIABETICINE WORKS!" I am a 62 year old woman, diabetic since 1998, whose blood sugar hovered between 200-300 between 2001 and July of 2005 when I discovered Diabeticine--and whose doctor insisted between 2003-2004 that I take insulin because oral meds like gliburide and metformin no longer treated my blood sugar problem effectively. Who would have thought that "'lowly" herbs would provide me so much benefit to my health! Now I finally understood why my Cherokee "Plant Woman" great grandmother knew and tried to teach my own mother--who refused to listen. By the way, my 450 pound husband--with a history of Diabetes on both sides of his family--became Diabetic in early January 2006, and his blood sugar was normalized in just 3 weeks taking Diabeticine!

http://www.asiandiabetesassociation.net

Another website makes this claim about Diabeticine:

Diabeticine, along with a healthy lifestyle, has been shown to be 99% effective for Type 2 diabetes and 64% effective for Type 1 diabetes at reversing the root cause of diabetes, based on clinical studies and over two years of use. Currently it is still available without a prescription.

http://www.alternativehealthsecrets.com/Diabetes.htm

[Dogdoctor]

OK so they have a single clinical study with no description of the design or publication of it. I guess if this is true then people will be throwing their insulin out and being cured. If not there will be some deaths.

[Terry]

"along with a healthy lifestyle" appears to me to be the key here...

[brodski]

OK so they have a single clinical study with no description of the design or publication of it. I guess if this is true then people will be throwing their insulin out and being cured. If not there will be some deaths.
Hey thats nothing, a couple of weeks ago I overheard a Ayurvedic practitioner tell someone that he had "a chant that would cure [his] diabetes" :eye-poppi

[Mojo]

The fact that the "representative of the company" quoted on that second site is using the "because it's created with all-natural ingredients it has none of the dangerous side-effects of synthetic drugs" fallacy makes me immediately suspicious, quite apart from the lack of any published trials.

[Timothy]

There have always been those willing to make a buck off the misfortune and gullibility of others, up to and including their deaths with absolutely no qualms of conscience.

There's nothing to say there isn't an herbal remedy that has a positive effect on diabetes. But, oh how easy to make up a story and have a gullible suffering person throw cash at you in desperation.

My brother-in-law is kept alive by meticulous and scrupulous attention to blood sugar monitoring and insulin tinkering. Charlatan scams like this appal me.

[Eos of the Eons]

There are two types of diabetes. Type 1 and Type 2. Type 2 diabetics usually monitor blood and stick to a strict diet. Type 1 needs insulin.

The anecdotes people use are appalling. There is no way to verify them. Yet, that is what is used the most to sell you things to make yourself your own little experiment.

[rwguinn]

After reading the OP, I think I will stick to my Motformin and exercise program, thank you very much.
"Natural" Hah!
To paraphrase a great author, It is also natural to sleep in trees and eat your dinner raw...

[wilks]

They say that
"If you are Type 2, it (diabeticine) is easily converted to insulin, which helps normalize and relieve stress on the pancreas, allowing it to heal. If you are Type 1, this conversion is not possible due to destroyed beta cells. Instead, this organic compound remains and functions just like insulin as a natural alternative. With increased production over time, stress on the pancreas is relieved which allows it to naturally heal and develop new beta cells with a different signature. These new beta cells are not susceptible to the body's immune system malfunction since they can not be targeted."

This must be one of the most amazing medical breakthoughs of the year. How odd that all those researchers and scientists haven't mentioned it.

My son has Type 1 diabetes and this sort of idiocy makes me extremely angry. If Type 1s stop taking their insulin they could die.

[Hardenbergh]

They say that
"If you are Type 2, it (diabeticine) is easily converted to insulin, which helps normalize and relieve stress on the pancreas, allowing it to heal. If you are Type 1, this conversion is not possible due to destroyed beta cells. Instead, this organic compound remains and functions just like insulin as a natural alternative. With increased production over time, stress on the pancreas is relieved which allows it to naturally heal and develop new beta cells with a different signature. These new beta cells are not susceptible to the body's immune system malfunction since they can not be targeted."

This must be one of the most amazing medical breakthoughs of the year. How odd that all those researchers and scientists haven't mentioned it.

My son has Type 1 diabetes and this sort of idiocy makes me extremely angry. If Type 1s stop taking their insulin they could die.


I hope your son has been doing well. Alternative medicine is just what it says, an alternative. It's just an option for those who don't like to give themselves injections. I wouldn't like to give myself injections either. They can always go back to the insulin if they find that they're getting little or no results from other alternatives.

[drkitten]

I hope your son has been doing well. Alternative medicine is just what it says, an alternative.

Yes. In the case of the treatment of type I diabetes, it's an alternative to living.

The reason that "alternative" medicine remains alternative is that it doesn't work. If you don't like to give yourself injections.... well, the "alternative" typically involves dying.

[Hardenbergh]

Yes. In the case of the treatment of type I diabetes, it's an alternative to living.

The reason that "alternative" medicine remains alternative is that it doesn't work. If you don't like to give yourself injections.... well, the "alternative" typically involves dying.

I know someone with Type I diabetes. I was concerned that he was not taking his insulin. He began giving himself injections many years ago when he was first diagnosed. He never checks his blood sugar. He told me that if he checked his blood sugar all the time, he wouldn't have time to do anything else. The only time he has his blood sugar checked is when he sees the doctor. He takes diabetic pills and some other oral medicines but he said that he refuses to spend his life poking himself with needles. So far he's doing quite well although he does have pain in his feet from neuropathy. He told me that the nerve damage cannot be reversed so insulin wouldn't help with that. I don't try to convince him that he should go back to the insulin. He has his mind made up.

[wilks]

I know someone with Type I diabetes. I was concerned that he was not taking his insulin. He began giving himself injections many years ago when he was first diagnosed. He never checks his blood sugar. He told me that if he checked his blood sugar all the time, he wouldn't have time to do anything else. The only time he has his blood sugar checked is when he sees the doctor. He takes diabetic pills and some other oral medicines but he said that he refuses to spend his life poking himself with needles. So far he's doing quite well although he does have pain in his feet from neuropathy. He told me that the nerve damage cannot be reversed so insulin wouldn't help with that. I don't try to convince him that he should go back to the insulin. He has his mind made up.

I'm sorry Hardenbergh but in that case I don't believe he has Type 1 diabetes. He must have Type 2.
If Type 1s don't take their insulin they WILL die and sometimes quite rapidly.
There may be some confusion as many Type 2s are also treated with insulin.

It is extremely silly behaviour for any diabetic not to test their blood sugar as often as possible whether they are Type 1 or 2. Even if your friend's nerve damage cannot be reversed a high blood sugar can lead to retinopathy and blindness, kidney damage and increased likelihood of heart attacks, strokes and gangrene. I would keep trying to change his mind and urge him to take better care of himself. I hope you have some success.

[ChristineR]

There are some varients of type I diabetes where the insulin output is impaired, but not entirely gone.

[wilks]

There are some varients of type I diabetes where the insulin output is impaired, but not entirely gone.

There is the 'honeymoon period' where Type 1s continue to produce some insulin for a few months after initial diagnosis but I think it is unlikely they would produce enough to survive for long.

I have never heard of Type 1 variants that continue to produce insulin for longer than this. That's very interesting. Can you tell me more?

[Hardenbergh]

I'm sorry Hardenbergh but in that case I don't believe he has Type 1 diabetes. He must have Type 2.
If Type 1s don't take their insulin they WILL die and sometimes quite rapidly.
There may be some confusion as many Type 2s are also treated with insulin.

It is extremely silly behaviour for any diabetic not to test their blood sugar as often as possible whether they are Type 1 or 2. Even if your friend's nerve damage cannot be reversed a high blood sugar can lead to retinopathy and blindness, kidney damage and increased likelihood of heart attacks, strokes and gangrene. I would keep trying to change his mind and urge him to take better care of himself. I hope you have some success.

He does have Type I diabetes. In the beginning, he was on insulin. I'm not sure how long. He also has a problem with anxiety and he said that it would worsen his problem with anxiety if he continuously checked his blood sugar.

[Hellbound]

Just out of curiosity, how would blindness affect his anxiety? Amputation of a foot? Weekly dialysis treatments?

Sometimes we have to suck it up and accept the lesser of two evils. I have little sympathy for those who refuse to help themselves.

Also, his oral pills may be insulin. I believe oral insulin has been out for a few years now, but I'd have to check.

[Hardenbergh]

Just out of curiosity, how would blindness affect his anxiety? Amputation of a foot? Weekly dialysis treatments?

Sometimes we have to suck it up and accept the lesser of two evils. I have little sympathy for those who refuse to help themselves.

Also, his oral pills may be insulin. I believe oral insulin has been out for a few years now, but I'd have to check.

He does have eye problems. He had cataract surgery--one eye came out fine but it didn't help his other eye even though he had a second surgery on that eye. I guess the neuropathy is quite bad. The pain in his feet is almost unbearable--to the point that he cries out in pain. He walks around town to do his errands but he has to sit down every once in awhile. The pain keeps him awake at night. He worked with my father in the shipyard but he retired quite a few years ago. He believes that he might have had diabetes many years before he was actually diagnosed.

[Genesius]

Also, his oral pills may be insulin. I believe oral insulin has been out for a few years now, but I'd have to check.

Nope. Some oral insulin products are in development, but nothing on the market yet. Pills in the sulfonylurea family (Glucotrol, Amaryl, etc) can stimulate the body's production of insulin in diabetics who still have some functioning beta cells, and I have heard some people refer to them as "insulin pills" so that might be what you're thinking of.

[ChristineR]

I couldn't find anything like what I was looking for online, although I'm sure I saw something useful yesterday. Oh well.

Type I diabetes is defined as an impairment in insulin production. There are many variations, including some where people make small amounts of insulin. There are some where the diabetic actually makes insulin, but can't use it for some other reason. Type I used to be called juvenile-onset diabetes (even though adults do occasionaly get it) and before that "brittle diabetes."

I'm not an expert. My mother is a dietician, and she was an expert on diabetic diets.

Anyhow, the fact that Hardenbergh's friend used to take insulin does not prove he is type I. Many type II diabetics take insulin. It's conceivable that he has limited but steady insulin production and controls his blood sugar with drugs and lifestyle. Some type I diabetics eat very little and exercise like crazy and only use minimal amounts of insulin. So Hardenbergh's claim is conceivable, but not real convincing.

[Mojo]

He believes that he might have had diabetes many years before he was actually diagnosed.Again, this sounds more like type 2.

[Rolfe]

It also sounds as if his diabetes is not controlled.He does have eye problems. He had cataract surgery--one eye came out fine but it didn't help his other eye even though he had a second surgery on that eye. I guess the neuropathy is quite bad. The pain in his feet is almost unbearable--to the point that he cries out in pain. He walks around town to do his errands but he has to sit down every once in awhile. The pain keeps him awake at night.Does this sound like a well-controlled diabetic to anyone? Nope, this is what happens when you don't do as you're told. Nobody said you'd drop dead on the spot, it's the long-term quality-of-life consequences that are the total bummers.

Rolfe.

[ChristineR]

This (http://www.diabetesnet.com/diabetes_types/whatype.php) might be moderately useful. Also read what they have to say about "Type 1.5."

Edited to add: Clearly this guy hasn't got much of a handle on his current state of health, so asking him whether he has antibodies against glutamic acid decarboxylase along with decreased but signifigant insulin production is probably not going to get much of a meaningful answer.

[Terry]

When I was diagnosed with (Type 2) diabetes, I had big problems with anxiety. In fact, to put no finer point on it, the discussion about the consequences of uncontrolled diabetes scared the [rule 8] out of me. Turns out this was a good thing, since it led to me losing a bunch of weight, and keeping my blood sugar under tight control.

[Lisa Simpson]

I was given a scare speech when I was diagnosed with gestational diabetes. As in: your baby may get too big for vaginal birth, the baby may be retarded, the baby may die, you may die. I kept my blood sugar under absolutely strick control. And even now, I exercise my arse off to keep type II diabetes away.

[Mongrel]

Nope. Some oral insulin products are in development, but nothing on the market yet. Pills in the sulfonylurea family (Glucotrol, Amaryl, etc) can stimulate the body's production of insulin in diabetics who still have some functioning beta cells, and I have heard some people refer to them as "insulin pills" so that might be what you're thinking of.

Not quite oral but they're ready to go with the insulin inhaler (http://www.diabetesnet.com/diabetes_treatments/insulin_inhaled.php) :)

[Hellbound]

Genesius:

Thanks. I couldn't remember for sure, but thought they were out already. It might be the boosting pills I'd heard about and was confusing with the actual oral insulin.

[Genesius]

Genesius:

Thanks. I couldn't remember for sure, but thought they were out already. It might be the boosting pills I'd heard about and was confusing with the actual oral insulin.

Always glad to help. I was diagnosed Type 2 about 5 years ago, so I try to keep up to date with developments. Haven't found any natural remedies that have any effect on blood sugar levels, although alpha-lipoic acid has helped reduce the numbness in my feet & lower legs.

And before anyone asks, yes my doctor is consulted before I try any non-prescription methods of sugar control.