Counterfeit money "detector" pen revisited

[Ladewig]

I was in a Las Vegas shop earlier this week and saw that the owners had purchased and installed a very elaborate counterfeit money detector. One would place a bill on it and a small white light would shine through the area with the watermark while a UV light shined down on the bill to make the plastic strip fluoresce. The machine even had colored stripes on the edge to indicate the colors and locations of the plastic strips in each different denomination.

Instead of using the machine, the clerk simply swiped the starch detector pen over the bill and put it in the till. Will these pens ever die out?

[DaGunnyz]

Probably not until the use of the pens begins to cost business greater amounts than the more effective anti-counterfeit tools.

For some reason, I see lawyers salivating over large sums of money. Employee uses pens instead of machine, bogus bills pass, employee is fired, employee sues claiming that the pen was available for use.....end state, no more pens.

[ChristineR]

I think I should start starching and ironing my money. I tend to wad it up and shove it my pocket, and that's so sloppy.

[JPK]

Good morning.
This drives me nuts. I manage an auto parts store. I am well aware of the ineffectivness of those pens. When I first started working here I saw they the counter people were all using these pens. I informed the owners that the pens not only will not catch fake bills but also gives the countermen a false sense of security. I took the time to teach the guys what to look for and more importantly what to feel for in currency. One day, one of my guys ended up taking 3 fake $100.00 bills. These bills looked excellant and passed the pen test, but I caught them the second they were handed to me. They were flat. No texture at all. If you run your fingernail over the jacket of the president, you will feel the texture. I was able to determine who was passing the bills and we had a nice visit from the Secret Service. They were very willing to help us, and gave us some great information on what to look for. I now have a very nice UV light on my key ring that makes the stips in the bills glow. We also have a light similar to the one described above, mounted on the counter where everyone can see it being used.
The reason the counterman was caught off guard was the fact the bills were passed by another employee.
While talking to the agents , I made mention of the fact that I watched James Randi demonstrate the ineffectiveness of the detector pens. The one agent simply asked "the magician?".
Still funnier is that our insurance company still insists on the use of the pens. So now I have some very well trained guys, a super high tech UV light, and still need to draw silly lines on the bills.
JPK

[Solitaire]

What's beautiful here is the counterfeiters using starch have learned that if they take a common yellow magic marker swipe it across the bill then a clerk receiving the bill will look at the mark think the bill has been tested before and accept it.

[Ladewig]

. These bills looked excellant and passed the pen test, but I caught them the second they were handed to me. They were flat. No texture at all. If you run your fingernail over the jacket of the president, you will feel the texture.

Exactly. I watched the craps boxmen at several different casinos accept dozens of $100 bills without looking for watermarks or fluorescing strips. They just handled them. I think some looked at the color-changing ink in the corner, but none of them used the pens.

[JPK]

Exactly. I watched the craps boxmen at several different casinos accept dozens of $100 bills without looking for watermarks or fluorescing strips. They just handled them. I think some looked at the color-changing ink in the corner, but none of them used the pens.

I doubt my customers realize that I am checking the money by feel when I do it. I do like to use the light on the counter in front of people though. It serves as a good deterant.
With the frequency that they are changing the look of our currency, it gets harder and harder to tell what a real bill looks like anymore.
This leads me to my idea to solve our national debt. Why don't we just sell the backs of our bills and coins as advertising space?
JPK

[Randi]

I suggest spraying all $100 bills with starch....

[kookbreaker]

Who do these pens stop? The kid who scans a twenty on his home computer and prints out the results on office copier paper?

I have heard of kids who've pulled that stunt, but the gig was revealed by the 'feel' of the dollar in veteran hands.

(note to larcenous kids: Do not try to make the old-time grocer the target of your first ink-jet printed twenty.)

[WildCat]

I suggest spraying all $100 bills with starch....
Glad to see you're feeling good enough to cause mischief!

Get well, big guy!

[Skeptical Greg]

.............. If you run your fingernail over the jacket of the president, you will feel the texture. I was able to determine who was passing the bills and we had a nice visit from the Secret Service. .....
JPK

Which president did these $100 bills have on them ?

Sounds like your co-workers needed a lot more help than a UV light...

[Hastur]

It's good to see you well enough to type, Mr. Randi.
I was at Staples ~2 weeks ago and I noticed a type of counterfeit detector pen on sale -- one that claims to check the ink rather than the paper. One simply rubs the pen over an inked spot and if the applicator comes up dirty, the bill is a counterfeit. I'm guessing this would snare the rank amateur counterfeiter and miss the more professional jobs.

[JPK]

Good morning
Which president did these $100 bills have on them ?

Sounds like your co-workers needed a lot more help than a UV light...

Grover Cleavland. They really should have caught them. :)

However your point is taken. Wasn't Ben the president of the local 4-H club or something?
JPK

[strathmeyer]

I suggest spraying all $100 bills with starch....

Pardon my ignorance, but where can one buy spray on starch? I don't have any clue what it is.

[ChristineR]

Pardon my ignorance, but where can one buy spray on starch? I don't have any clue what it is.

:D Who does your laundry?:D

[ChristineR]

I was looking at some ads for these pens, and they made an interesting claim, which is that these pens detect bills made on color copies or printers. They also said that "cheap" paper will not turn the stain black but that good counterfeitors must use "quality" paper. Now it may or may not be true that copier paper is usually starched, but it is manifestly false that quality paper is sized with starch and cheap paper is sized with something else. Copy machine bills are not likely to fool any but the least observant human, and are probably mostly passed in change machines.

The best counterfeit bills are made on a special paper which is readily available in handy pre-sized pieces for the very reasonable price of $1 each.

[strathmeyer]

:D Who does your laundry?:D

The washing machine. I use Tide detergent. I put the clothes in the machine with my hands. Sometimes I forget to close the lid.

[ChristineR]

You will find spray starch right next to the washing soda, the borax, the fabric softener, the iron cleaner, the oxygen bleach, the chlorine bleach, the enzymatic stain pretreater, the water conditioner, the delicates bag, the drier scents, and the low sudsing detergent.

[Hagrok]

The washing machine. I use Tide detergent. I put the clothes in the machine with my hands. Sometimes I forget to close the lid.
Just about anywhere that sells laundry detergent will also sell spray on starch, I think.

[strathmeyer]

Just about anywhere that sells laundry detergent will also sell spray on starch, I think.

This answers my question, thanks! (as well as Christine's answer above.)

[ferd burfle]

The best counterfeit bills are made on a special paper which is readily available in handy pre-sized pieces for the very reasonable price of $1 each.

A friend told me that's one of the reasons why ones don't have a strip in them.

Ferd

[ChristineR]

Almost every country in the world other than the U.S. prints smaller bills on smaller pieces of paper. The strip helps, but $5 is still a pretty good price for the extra special paper.

[delphi_ote]

Terrorists could wreak havoc on our currency system by simply spraying starch on it, all because we are stupid.

[shemp]

I suggest spraying all $100 bills with starch....

I'll make this my hobby. It's more productive than lurking around here. :D

P.S. Glad you're feeling better!

[alfaniner]

I suggest spraying all $100 bills with starch....

Better yet, spray them through a stencil that says "NOT FAKE".

[tsg]

Better yet, spray them through a stencil that says "NOT FAKE".

Or even better, "THOSE PENS DON'T WORK"

[delphi_ote]

Or even better, "THOSE PENS DON'T WORK"
Brilliant!

[gnome]

I have taken to pointing out the ineffectiveness of the pens whenever I see them used. For the most part, the clerk using them acknowledges the facts, but informs me that they're required to use them anyway, and after all, they might actually catch one or two.

[JPK]

I have taken to pointing out the ineffectiveness of the pens whenever I see them used. For the most part, the clerk using them acknowledges the facts, but informs me that they're required to use them anyway, and after all, they might actually catch one or two.
As I stated above, even after pointing out that they do not work, our insurance company stll requires us to use them.
JPK

[gnome]

I'm trying to think of a way to make a bet with a manager that someone with no training and a little info, can perform just as well without the pen.

[Solitaire]

This is slightly off topic, but I've heard of a guy who orders uncut sheets from the Bureau Of Engraving And Printing has them perforated so when he needs a bill he simply unfolds the sheet and rips one out. Much better than wading up a bunch of loose bills in a wallet.

:)

[LostAngeles]

I'm trying to think of a way to make a bet with a manager that someone with no training and a little info, can perform just as well without the pen.

I've had plenty of practice, does that count?

[SkepticScott]

I suggest spraying all $100 bills with starch....
It's good to see you're posting again, Mr. Randi!

I like to spray half of each bill. I think it really ruins the credibility of the pen when it shows that half the bill is valid and the other half is counterfeit.:D

[alfaniner]

It's good to see you're posting again, Mr. Randi!

I like to spray half of each bill. I think it really ruins the credibility of the pen when it shows that half the bill is valid and the other half is counterfeit.:D

SkepticScott wins this debate. Argument by Simplest, Best Idea. (aka "Occam's Spritzer.")

[gnome]

SkepticScott wins this debate. Argument by Simplest, Best Idea. (aka "Occam's Spritzer.")

Ohhh that's good... I hadn't tried the "starch" thing since I didn't want to have some idiot decide my real money wasn't any good. But half? That's got some merit.

[Penny]

I like to spray half of each bill. I think it really ruins the credibility of the pen when it shows that half the bill is valid and the other half is counterfeit.:D
Mightn't they then count the bill as being worth half of its face value?

[SkepticScott]

Mightn't they then count the bill as being worth half of its face value?If some person says the bill is worth only half its face value, would I then be justified in saying that person had only half a brain? :)

[ChristineR]

Better yet--starch one end on the front and the other end on the back. :D

[SkepticScott]

Better yet--starch one end on the front and the other end on the back. :DWouldn't the spray starch "leak through", from one side to the other? The bills get very wet when I treat them.

[Dark Jaguar]

Hilarious, but I can't help but feel this would be useless in most of the places I shop. Most of the register biscuits I deal with make it very clear they have absolutely no method of influencing company policy no matter what they do (in fact, they take an odd pride in revealing this fact). I don't think holding up the line and annoying the guy behind the counter is going to do much good in a place like Quick Trip or Walmart.

[ChristineR]

Don't do it unless you're prepared to argue with a clerk, and create a little crowd of uneducated store detectives. Of course the ideal would be to spend the bills somewhere that doesn't use these pens but rather has a nice UV light tester. Of course some completely innocent person may get stuck eventually, but if we all starch enough bills then people may someday get the message.

[CFLarsen]

I suggest spraying all $100 bills with starch....

You don't just suggest, do (http://www.randi.org/jr/070105quality.html#7) you? (http://www.randi.org/jr/120304youve.html#1) ;)

I like to spray half of each bill. I think it really ruins the credibility of the pen when it shows that half the bill is valid and the other half is counterfeit.:D

No, it doesn't. Remember, these people are good at double-thinking! :)


....come to think of it, why the smiley? It's sad!

[JPK]

Good afternoon.

Don't do it unless you're prepared to argue with a clerk, and create a little crowd of uneducated store detectives. Of course the ideal would be to spend the bills somewhere that doesn't use these pens but rather has a nice UV light tester. Of course some completely innocent person may get stuck eventually, but if we all starch enough bills then people may someday get the message.

If you want some real fun, you can write silly messages on the bills using a UV marker. It will only show up under the UV light. It's a good way to make sure you employees actually are using the light.

JPK

[Librarian]

Will these pens ever die out?

Doubt it.

I spent some time during the day trying to explain why these pens don't work to a coworker without much success. I eventually took a length of register paper and wrote out a few sample words to show her the pen doesn't really do anything in the way of detecting fake money. I noticed that the pen stayed yellow--the same yellow as on "good" tender--on regular register tape. Is there a reason for this or is it simply another way of showing just how bogus these pens are?


It's always funny to watch a business use these things when I pay with big bills--$50, $100--knowing what I knew about those pens, but completely exclude $10 and $5. In my town recently there have been a rash of counterfiting lower denomination bills. I have yet to be shown anything short of just studying the bill up against light, looking for specific telltale marks and whatnot that does the job these "pens" claim to do.

[LordoftheLeftHand]

We recently received a counterfeit $100 bill at work. We have several machines that count money and none of them would accept it. Of course the pen indicated it was good.

LLH

[tsg]

We recently received a counterfeit $100 bill at work. We have several machines that count money and none of them would accept it. Of course the pen indicated it was good.

LLH


It seems these pens are only good for detecting fake bills that you don't need the pen to tell they're fake.

[DrMatt]

I think I should start starching and ironing my money. I tend to wad it up and shove it my pocket, and that's so sloppy.


Some clown in Fort Lauderdale has been doing that regularly.

[DrMatt]

I have yet to be shown anything short of just studying the bill up against light, looking for specific telltale marks and whatnot that does the job these "pens" claim to do.

If you want to know exactly what the marks of real USA money are, see if http://www.treasury.gov can help you. The UV detector sounds genuine...

[Librarian]

Thanks Dr. I'll check it out. Now if only I can convince others at work....

[Kimpatsu]

If some person says the bill is worth only half its face value, would I then be justified in saying that person had only half a brain? :)
I wonder which half of his brain is starched? :D

[LostSoul]

We recently received a counterfeit $100 bill at work. We have several machines that count money and none of them would accept it. Of course the pen indicated it was good.

LLH


We had that happen where I work also. The guy was very upset, and insisted the bill was real and that we call the Secret Service to prove it. They took him and the bill away.

Moral of the story: Don't try to pass a counterfeit bill at a PRINT SHOP!