Walk on Water

[Overman]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12152740/?GT1=7938


or perhaps....

[juryjone]

I heard that hes had a wineskin under his tunic at that wedding...:rolleyes:

How's about we prove he existed before we figure out how he did his tricks? If I were a Christian apologist I'd be choking with laughter at that article.

[Red Siegfried]

Here we go with speculative history again. This kind of stuff is a pet peeve of mine. The walking on water thing was just a story. You have to prove that Jesus was really where the story happened at the time and a bunch of people really did think they saw him walking on water at that place. There's no good evidence it even happened at all, it could just be a totally made up story. But now we have an explanation about how it happened (taking as a given that is actually happened at all).

Now we can follow it up with how Noah and The Ark was actually a true story because we can prove how it might have happened when floods happened during some period of time in the distant past when there is no way to find out whether the event depicted in the Bible was even close to the same time..

Now we can prove the Jonah and The Whale was actually a true story because he really got attacked by a great white shark, not a whale, so the story was basically true (I saw this on a TV show about sharks the other night).

Now we can prove how all the things that happened during the Exodus really did happen because we have scientific speculation about how some of the events might have occurred.

And so on and so on ....

There's so much speculation here that having the word "science" anywhere in the article annoys the heck out of me. It's speculation. Pure speculation.

[Red Siegfried]

I heard that hes had a wineskin under his tunic at that wedding...:rolleyes:

How's about we prove he existed before we figure out how he did his tricks? If I were a Christian apologist I'd be choking with laughter at that article.

I know where you're coming from. I'm willing to concede to anyone that Jesus probably existed, but pretty much just about everything else about him and everything else he ever did is unprovable. In fact, historical evidence for his existence is pretty scarce:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

hence I don't really know why I think he probably existed. Probably I've just been told for so many years that there is historical evidence for Jesus that I believed it. Not only is there very little historical evidence to collaborate the existence of Jesus, there is a stunning ALMOST TOTAL LACK of evidence. There is far more evidence to prove the existence of almost any other historical figure from that era.

[Nyarlathotep]

I think someone is really stretching. And its putting the cart before the horse to come up with explanations as to HOW events in the bible happened before proving WHETHER they happened.

[LW]

Oh dear.

I have no problem in believing that Sea of Galilee may have frozen partially sometimes.

But claiming that a small frozen patch that resulted from a temperature drop to -4°C for a day that is floating in a much larger lake would support a walking man is only slightly more believable than having someone walking on water. Especially if "rain has smoothed its surface". Because "smoothed" would be more accurately written "melted".

I think it is clear that the authors have never seen a lake with "overnight ice" (as we call it in Finnish, "yksiöinen jää") anytime in their lives.

[Azrael 5]

This may be too much of a heavy question for this thread..but did Jesus actually exist?

[Azrael 5]

Double post.

[Red Siegfried]

Boy, that could really tick off all the DaVinci Code people, not to mention the modern day Rosicrucians and self-styled Knights Templar spread around Europe.

[Jon.]

Long ago, I heard the definition of a Canadian: Someone who believes that Jesus walked on water, but that the water was frozen at the time.

[Overman]

I know where you're coming from. I'm willing to concede to anyone that Jesus probably existed, but pretty much just about everything else about him and everything else he ever did is unprovable. In fact, historical evidence for his existence is pretty scarce:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm


hence I don't really know why I think he probably existed. Probably I've just been told for so many years that there is historical evidence for Jesus that I believed it. Not only is there very little historical evidence to collaborate the existence of Jesus, there is a stunning ALMOST TOTAL LACK of evidence. There is far more evidence to prove the existence of almost any other historical figure from that era.

Good point and great article!!!

Thanks!

[Starthinker]

I thought it had something to do with the moon bumping into Mars and temporarily solidifying the water with meteor dust or something like that. Where's my copy of Worlds in Collision?

Actually, I think some time in the future someone invents a time machine and sends packets of Kool-Aid back in time so Jesus could make "wine" out of the water. In fact, a time traveler from the future would surely like to meet Jesus so he goes back in time with a med kit, some supplies, and ends up getting mistaken for Jesus (heals with his advanced medical supplies, uses Crystal Light at a wedding, preaches peace) and thus creates the very legend he hoped to meet.

(I was toying with a novel of that description but haven't gotten around to it yet. I was also toying with "The Early Adventures of Jesus" which follows the adventures of a young Jesus as he learns tricks from magicians while fighting dragons and cyclops and stuff.)

[Overman]

[QUOTE=Starthinker;1552357]
Actually, I think some time in the future someone invents a time machine and sends packets of Kool-Aid back in time so Jesus could make "wine" out of the water. In fact, a time traveler from the future would surely like to meet Jesus so he goes back in time with a med kit, some supplies, and ends up getting mistaken for Jesus (heals with his advanced medical supplies, uses Crystal Light at a wedding, preaches peace) and thus creates the very legend he hoped to meet.

QUOTE]

I will start growing my beard right now for that role. Contact me when you are casting!

[Jon.]

Actually, I think some time in the future someone invents a time machine and sends packets of Kool-Aid back in time so Jesus could make "wine" out of the water. In fact, a time traveler from the future would surely like to meet Jesus so he goes back in time with a med kit, some supplies, and ends up getting mistaken for Jesus (heals with his advanced medical supplies, uses Crystal Light at a wedding, preaches peace) and thus creates the very legend he hoped to meet.

There's a sf novel much like this, only Jesus turns out to be a mentally retarded kid living in the back of Mary and Joseph's carpentry shop, and the time traveller ends up "playing" Jesus by going to Jerusalem on a donkey. Wish I could remember what it was called or who wrote it.

[Starthinker]

There's a sf novel much like this, only Jesus turns out to be a mentally retarded kid living in the back of Mary and Joseph's carpentry shop, and the time traveller ends up "playing" Jesus by going to Jerusalem on a donkey. Wish I could remember what it was called or who wrote it.

Cool, I'd love to see that. In my version the actual time travel is achieved by sending the traveler's "consciousness" back to a woman's womb so that he is born knowing full well that he is a man from the future which explains the virgin birth (sorta, I haven't worked out the details) and the being able to speak the local language (after a while) and also plays with the physics of time travel as an actual human didn't have to actually travel through time. I, of course, didn't work out the details as to how his equipment got there....

[Jon.]

Cool, I'd love to see that. In my version the actual time travel is achieved by sending the traveler's "consciousness" back to a woman's womb so that he is born knowing full well that he is a man from the future which explains the virgin birth (sorta, I haven't worked out the details) and the being able to speak the local language (after a while) and also plays with the physics of time travel as an actual human didn't have to actually travel through time. I, of course, didn't work out the details as to how his equipment got there....

Aha! Found it by searching for "jesus christ fiction" on my library's web site. It's called Behold The Man and it's by Michael Moorcock.

[Red Siegfried]

Jesus murdered his friend by pushing him off a roof and killed birds for the fun of it. Some people say that he caused another child to dehydrate into a withered corpse on the spot and caused another kid to drop dead because he bumped into him.

Don't believe me? Read the Infancy Gospel of Thomas or any of the other books of the Bible not deemed worthy to make the cut.

My point is that lots of people said lots of things about Jesus, but for some reason some people choose only to believe some of it and not other parts, even though the sources and veracity of almost all these books are uncertain.