Gimme a crazy UFO story

[kittynh]

So looking for some stuff for my radio gig (does that sound professional?)

The guy in Brazil that was abducted and pretty much raped to repopulate an alien race was a big hit.

I'm working on the aliens that brought us the advanced technology of PANCAKES!!

The sillier the better, but must be accepted by most UFOlogist (which doesn't take much mind you).,

If sex is involved that's a plus. (it's sad, I'm trying to get Rebecca to take over the gig...I won't say dirty words over the radio, even if it is satellite).

[Kiless]

Today, on the way to work, I was listening to Nena's 99 Red Balloons. Red balloons that were supposedly a UFO or a nuclear threat. Makes you think, wouldn't the cold war be a bad bad time to be a UFO pilot? ;)

Perhaps get them to play the song to introduce you?
http://www.arar93.dsl.pipex.com/mds975/Content/redballoons.html

Is it true? I'm wondering... I'll do some poking around to find out.

[Sultanist]

I can't say that I have a "crazy" UFO sighting to relate. Mine was actually
pretty unspectacular I suppose. Are you only interested in the "crazy" ones?

[Kiless]

Of course, you've been tuning in to the ever-reliable discovery channel this month:

The World's Strangest UFO Stories - I Had Sex With an Alien
Sun., April 2 at 9 p.m. ET/10 p.m. PT
There's no doubt that alien stories are intriguing... but are they seductive? Since the 1950s, there have been strange reports of sexually inquisitive - and adept - aliens visiting unsuspecting sleepers. Meet some of the people who believe they've had sex with aliens. This includes Houston jazz singer Pamela Stonebrooke, who has been having mind-blowing alien sex with a six-foot blond reptile since 1998; and New Jersey residents, Pat and Alice, who are still recovering from the aliens first impregnating Alice then stealing their alien-human baby. But what's really going on here? This episode investigates theories of sleep paralysis, self-hypnosis and false memory syndrome and looks at cultural influences including 1950s B-movies and folklore legends such as the incubus and succubus.

And let us not forget the intergalacticdiva (as her website calls her) herself: as the ever-reliable Sun newspaper UK says -
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,5-2006030221,00.html

FEW people can claim to have experienced ‘out of this world’ sex - but Pamela Stonebrooke is a woman who can.
The 52-year-old jazz singer says she enjoyed mind-blowing alien romps with a six-foot reptilian for three years.

Her story is among a number featured in World's Strangest UFO Stories which premieres this Sunday on the Discovery Channel.
Speaking exclusively to The Sun Online, Pamela revealed: “My first sexual encounter with an alien was unlike any love-making I’ve experienced before......

[Kiless]

Oh, many more here:
http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/121_aliensex.shtml

[kittynh]

oh I love you Kiless.....

[Astrophotographer]

So looking for some stuff for my radio gig (does that sound professional?)

The guy in Brazil that was abducted and pretty much raped to repopulate an alien race was a big hit.

I'm working on the aliens that brought us the advanced technology of PANCAKES!!

The sillier the better, but must be accepted by most UFOlogist (which doesn't take much mind you).,

If sex is involved that's a plus. (it's sad, I'm trying to get Rebecca to take over the gig...I won't say dirty words over the radio, even if it is satellite).

He is one of the more recent claims about abductions. This one even has DNA evidence associated with the sexual encounter with an alien!

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/shadowlands/6583/abduct077.html

[kittynh]

sex and aliens, I'm sure the ratings are going to go up!

My daughter wants to start up a web site for me.

Somehow I have a dreadful feeling this may be my calling in life.

I'm scared

[Hamradioguy]

I'm still partial to "The Shaver Mystery". Gotta love those Deros (DEtrimental RObots). The ones fighting the Deros were the Teros. They speak in the ancient language "Mantong". According to Shaver the word "trocadero" (A nightclub I believe...) is from the Mantong, "Tero see a Dero". OK, so there's no sex (other than those annoying "stim rays"), but it's pretty high on the weirdness scale....

[Yeah_Right]

I guess you'd call this story pretty crazy, no sex in it, but this woman on Dr. Phil claimed to have been abducted once in childhood and thought that one of her emails to Dr. Phil's show had been deleted by the aliens so she couldn't tell her story.

[Patricio Elicer]

Here’s a metal element recovered from the debris of a UFO that crashed in the Argentinian city of Victoria in 1991. The metal’s alien property is that it is transparent, although the transparency can only be appreciated on photographs, not in direct viewing. Crazy enough? :p

http://www.visionovni.com.ar/fotos.html#metal (Warning: music on the link)

[deBergerac]

Somehow I have a dreadful feeling this may be my calling in life.

I'm scared

Be afraid; be very much afraid.

A calling is not just something one picks up and throw away once one get tired of it, it clings to you and will not let you go. You find the urge to talk about it to strangers and wake up in the middle of the night with a new idea of how to reach people.
A calling can also give a new meaning to your life as well as hardship and obstacles to conquer.

I think you might be right, so good luck!

[Yahweh]

"Just because the universe is going to be distroyed doesent mean that other races can't be saved and that the rapture can't happen symaltaneously on other plannets, and the rapture wont happen untill every nation has had a chance to hear the gospel, a nation is a group of people, if aliens exiist they wopuld be a nation or a collection of nations, prehaps it is our duty to reach out to them? (Prehaps missionary journeys into outer space sounds farfetched, but its not impossible and the bible doesent say anything against it does it?)"

steel, Rapture Ready (http://www.fstdt.com/comments.asp?id=508)


"They're saying that the Vatican has known about UFO's for years. [rolleyes]

To me, all the ufo stuff looks like a big satanic setup that'll attempt to explain away all the disappearances."

GFJ, Rapture Ready (http://www.fstdt.com/comments.asp?id=50)


"True Christians are required to believe the angels of the Bible are real. Angels heal people in John 5, and arrest the evilest in Matthew 13:49-50. The Lord returns with his mighty angels in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9, taking vengeance.

Zechariah 5; a flying roll in the sky reported. A pillar of fire in the sky led Moses & Hebrews from Egypt. Ezekiel 1 deals with flying objects. Elijah & Jeshua both taken into the sky. So UFOs ARE CONNECTED IN THE BIBLE TO ANGELS!"

John16:2, Christian Forums (http://www.fstdt.com/comments.asp?id=1679)


"I don't believe in evolution. There are basically 3 kinds of created beings: biological life forms created by God (Terrestrial or extraterrestrial), angelic beings that are spiritual but can take physical form (Both good & bad guys), and genetically engineered or hybrid life forms. I believe the grays are probably a combination of fallen angel and genetic engineering done by those who followed Lucifer. The evololtion angle they try to pass off on us is just another part of their deception"

Starcrystal, Christian Forums (http://www.fstdt.com/comments.asp?id=2615)


"['Yes. I belive aliens geneticly altered primative beings on this planet to become what we are today.']

But that would be like saying aliens were God, or gods. No, I don't believe this. What I do believe is aliens visited here and mated with humans that produced offspring. I believe humans were taken off of this world and mated with aliens on other planets. I believe these races that mated are all humanoid races.
The guys doing the genetic experiments are the grays and reptilians. This seems to be a more recent phenomenon. I believe it to be satanic. The humanoid aliens I know tell me the grays and reptilians are evil, and are in fact the servants of Lucifer and the serpent "gods" (demons).
I have battled these grays in Jesus name and defeated them. My wife has been abducted by them and bears physical marks from their medical procedure in the form of a triangular piece of flesh removed surgically from her hand.
So, no, I don't think aliens did genetic experiments with Neanterthals and made humans. Two different races, just like sasquatch is a different type of primate race, and probably of alien origin."

StarCrystal, Christian Forums (http://www.fstdt.com/comments.asp?id=9098)


"This is little publicized as Arab astronauts were first into space in the year 1344. This history is rarely found in American textbooks."

achilles6256, Yahoo! Message Boards (http://www.fstdt.com/comments.asp?id=10083)


Lots more where that came from (http://www.fstdt.com/filter.asp?searchby=category&filter=10&show=allposts&page=1&perpage=150).

[Kiless]

sex and aliens, I'm sure the ratings are going to go up!

My daughter wants to start up a web site for me.

Somehow I have a dreadful feeling this may be my calling in life.

I'm scared

Kitty, this is a GOOD thing. If you want it.

You have a beautiful voice. A professional manner. You were so sophisticated at TAM that I was a little afeared of you! :) You don't diss people lightly, you banter beautifully and this radio program wants you!

If this is your calling, you're doing something great. Don't think you're 'not good enough for it'. If they thought you weren't good enough, they wouldn't have asked for you in the first place. :)

Do it if it's something you enjoy. You can always contribute in many ways if you honestly think it's taking something out of you to do it and dislike it.

And if it is giving you a kick and they are supporting you likewise with either encouragement or understanding that you're new at this, then bloody well keep kicking those nasty buggers who are making a mint off these poor people's delusions! :boggled: Always make the message - there are people with genuine problems, let's give them help not just our laughter!

Seen how many therapists make a dollar off encouraging these people? Sheesh. :(

So - keep doing it if you want to. :)

And I'll keep seeing if they'll do podcasts I can download! :)

[Kiless]

Lots more where that came from (http://www.fstdt.com/filter.asp?searchby=category&filter=10&show=allposts&page=1&perpage=150).

... and with the almighty Yahweh on your side, things will never go wrong. :cool:

[Bikewer]

Speaking of which; whatever happened to all those abductions?

Just a few years ago, we were told in all seriousness that aliens were yearly abducting hundreds of thousands of people, wafting them through walls and such, and subjecting them to all manner of naughty examinations.

Apparently the aliens have sufficient rectal samples at this point, as the abduction fad seems to have faded into some obscurity.

[Kiless]

I like to think that South Park has had a significant contribution to the 'sheesh, yeah right' factor.

There's only so much you can handle straight-faced once Cartman has produced a satellite transmitter out of his arse.

[J. Arthur Hastur]

After three falafels last night, I passed a UFO.

[ChristineR]

"Trocadero" is a drag queen. Alien and drag queens cannot be beat!

[CptColumbo]

My grandmother once told me she had seen a UFO just before sunset while on the can. "It was a large orange globe, that was very bright." Yeah, her bathroom window faces west. I didn't have the heart to tell her my theory.

[ntech]

I was hiking in a valley in Salisbury Mills, New York when the silence was broken by a high pitched pulsing sound. I looked up and saw over the abandoned trestle, a disc shaped craft. I tried to fire off a second photo and almost instantly there was a vapor trail and the craft was miles away. I don't know what it was that I saw but I know it's not normal.

[CFLarsen]

You need this one: The Mammoth Encyclopedia of Extraterrestrial Encounters (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1841196134/sr=8-1/qid=1145017732/ref=sr_1_1/002-5086040-5202443?%5Fencoding=UTF8)

I have it, and it's a must.

[ntech]

You need this one: The Mammoth Encyclopedia of Extraterrestrial Encounters (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1841196134/sr=8-1/qid=1145017732/ref=sr_1_1/002-5086040-5202443?%5Fencoding=UTF8)

I have it, and it's a must.

Thanks CFLarsen; it looks informative.

[Starthinker]

When I was a child (early 70's) we lived in a house that had a large garage and sunroom and the roof was a nice place to relax from time to time. One warm night I was watching the stars and satellites when I noticed a very colorful batch of lights moving around the sky. I was very calm and just watched them as they moved through right angles and shot around at speeds that were clearly inhuman. Then it stopped directly overhead and started getting bigger and I realized that it was coming closer. It took the shape of a large saucer as it got closer and the lights were all over it. It came down even with the roof I was sitting on and by that time I realized I couldn't move. I saw little beings that were almost human but tiny and with no discernable mouths or noses and dressed in light-colored clothes. Somehow I was lifted up and taken inside the craft.

It was very dark and although I couldn't see it, I felt that there was activity all around me. Then, a very large, dark alien with bulbous eyes appeared out of nowhere and talked to me for a long time. Although I remember participating in this chat I can't remember what I said, like a dream that is forgotten when you wake up. He gave me a piece of something that was like (but not) wood with some symbols on it and I passed out and woke up on the roof. The lights were gone.

I made a rubbing of the symbols on the fake wood and it slowly turned to ash over the course of a day or two. In later years I interpreted the symbols as numbers in groups of three. Here are those numbers.

192
168
000
001

And now, years later, I think they were trying to tell me to look inside myself, to find my inner gateway to the outside world. And now where ever I go those numbers do become my gateway to the outside world and I will never forget them. I use them at work and in my daily life at home and I feel the need to preach these numbers but I can't for fear no one will understand.

That is my UFO story, I hope you find it usefull.

[Bronze Dog]

I was hiking in a valley in Salisbury Mills, New York when the silence was broken by a high pitched pulsing sound. I looked up and saw over the abandoned trestle, a disc shaped craft. I tried to fire off a second photo and almost instantly there was a vapor trail and the craft was miles away. I don't know what it was that I saw but I know it's not normal.
Those photos are going to have me boggling for a while.

[ntech]

Those photos are going to have me boggling for a while.

This valley is just 10 miles or so from Steward Airforce Base. I wonder?

[Twilek]

The World's Strangest UFO Stories - I Had Sex With an Alien
Sun., April 2 at 9 p.m. ET/10 p.m. PT

I read this as "I had sex with an alien sun".

Hawt!

[Meffy]

This valley is just 10 miles or so from Steward Airforce Base. I wonder?
Do you recall what the weather was? Any breeze at all, or dead still air?

[kittynh]

cool! The thing is that I have a LOT of very old UFO books. From the 50's onward. They all claim that SOON, very SOON, UFOs will make themselves known.

We have more and more technology, camera phones, EVERYTHING, and nothing going on. If anything the abductions were a reaction to the lack of real evidence of UFOs. Nuts and bolts UFOlogists are OUT.

Rather like sceances. With cameras and other high tech ways to check things out, the flying hands and trumpets are out, and the off the cuff cold reading is in. If it can be easily checked, it must be dumped.

[Ryokan]

I made a rubbing of the symbols on the fake wood and it slowly turned to ash over the course of a day or two. In later years I interpreted the symbols as numbers in groups of three. Here are those numbers.

192
168
000
001

And now, years later, I think they were trying to tell me to look inside myself, to find my inner gateway to the outside world.

That's the local IP-adress to the main computer on their mothership.

[ntech]

Do you recall what the weather was? Any breeze at all, or dead still air?

Dead still air.

[Soapy Sam]

Kitty- Don't say bad words.

Say "Beep" or "Rule 8".
When people inquire what it means- send ' em here!

[Meffy]

Dead still air.
*nod* Good solid tripod too?

[ntech]

*nod* Good solid tripod too?

It was just an old rickety tripod.

[CFLarsen]

cool! The thing is that I have a LOT of very old UFO books. From the 50's onward.

If you tire of (some of) them, I'd like them.

[ike42]

*nod* Good solid tripod too?
Your post made me laugh, Meffy, because I was thinking the same thing.

It sure looks like a good solid tripod was used.... Unless... no, nobody would use Photoshop to edit a source photo two different ways, would they??


ike42

[ntech]

The pics were taken about 1 second after each other from and old but obviously stable tripod.

What is Photoshop?

[Checkmite]

The guy in Brazil that was abducted and pretty much raped to repopulate an alien race was a big hit.

His name was Antonio Villas-Boas, if I remember correctly.

George Adamski's Venusian visitors were caucasian, with blond hair and blue eyes.

Somebody mentioned Richard Shaver. Shaver was an associate of a man named Ray Palmer - the two of them are credited with inventing the "men in black" phenomenon. In a book called "They Knew Too Much About Flying Saucers" by Gray Barker, the author relates a story about Palmer. It seems Palmer was developing a theory that Adolph Hitler and the Nazis may have escaped to a hidden base in Antarctica, at which they developed technology which led to the creation of certain vehicles which are seen as UFOs all over the world to this day. Palmer apparently told his girlfriend about his theories regarding UFOs, and upon mentioning the secret Antarctica base, something odd happened to his girlfriend - she seemed to become "possessed" by some strange intelligent force, which angrily admonished him to drop the Nazi/Antarctica/UFO theory for his own good. The strange force then "left" his girlfriend's body. Some time later, he accidentally let something slip about the theory, and the same strange force once again manifested itself, suggesting that his life might be at stake if he continued his "research" on that particular subject. Thereafter, he was haunted by strange phone calls, notes, and apparitions/phantasms, all coldly urging him to abandon the theory. He said eventually he became so scared that he complied.

Ray Palmer was one of the co-founders of Fate magazine, if it do ya fine.

[Meffy]

What is Photoshop?

;-)

[Astrophotographer]

cool! The thing is that I have a LOT of very old UFO books. From the 50's onward. They all claim that SOON, very SOON, UFOs will make themselves known.

We have more and more technology, camera phones, EVERYTHING, and nothing going on. If anything the abductions were a reaction to the lack of real evidence of UFOs. Nuts and bolts UFOlogists are OUT.

Rather like sceances. With cameras and other high tech ways to check things out, the flying hands and trumpets are out, and the off the cuff cold reading is in. If it can be easily checked, it must be dumped.

This is why Roswell was the godsend for most UFOlogists. They felt they had the government with all these "reliable" witnesses and all sorts of "evidence" (most of it slanted towards their interpretation). It turns out that a lot of them were not "reliable" at all and were old men looking for some sort of attention. Several of them had missed out on serving actively in the war and I guess they had to paint themselves into this myth. Maybe they did not want to tell their grandchildren that "they shoveled .... in Louisiana!"

[ike42]

The pics were taken about 1 second after each other from and old but obviously stable tripod.

What is Photoshop?

Hehehe. Right.

Photoshop is the program that was used to edit the two pictures you posted. The embedded headers indicate that Adobe Photoshop 7.0 saved ufo2.jpg on 14 Apr 2006 at 07:51 and ufo3.jpg at 08:08 (a few minutes before you posted them at 8:16).


ike42

[ntech]

;-)

I was wondering when someone reasonable would get it. It was a spoof to see what would be said about it.

The place is real but the ufo was changed to protect the innocent. :)

[ntech]

Hehehe. Right.

Photoshop is the program that was used to edit the two pictures you posted. The embedded headers indicate that Adobe Photoshop 7.0 saved ufo2.jpg on 14 Apr 2006 at 07:51 and ufo3.jpg at 08:08 (a few minutes before you posted them at 8:16).


ike42

touché, ike42
Good work. Just keeping the skeptic folk on their toes.

[Meffy]

I didn't check the tags. The appearance of the pictures suggested another route of investigation. Photoshop's "difference" blending mode (or equivalent in the GIMP, etc.) is a dandy tool for examining pairs of images. :-}

[ntech]

I didn't check the tags. The appearance of the pictures suggested another route of investigation. Photoshop's "difference" blending mode (or equivalent in the GIMP, etc.) is a dandy tool for examining pairs of images. :-}


Great Meffy. That didn't take long.

[TjW]

I just looked at them with SuperMagnify.
I was going to make a post remarking on how you could even see a rectangular (or cylindrical) "force field" around both the ship and the smoke it left behind, but I had to go to work, so I didn't.

[Meffy]

I'm working on the aliens that brought us the advanced technology of PANCAKES!!

Have you investigated the ancient Egyptian astronaut connection?

http://www.freewebtown.com/meffy/stuffs/pancake_of_ra.jpg

[Sultanist]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I witnessed an aerial object which I could not and still cannot identify. I've explored most of the usual prosaic explanations for what it might have been. And it's still not something I've been able to identify.

May I pose a question to you all?
Just for the sake of argument, let's say that someone did happen to witness
an actual unidentifiable aerial object.
This witness has no means at his disposal of recording the sighting. And the object leaves no trace of it's presence.
Now, with the absence of the witness being able to provide any evidence with which to support his claim, I would not expect you to accept that it is what he said it is. And neither would I.
But that would not change the fact that he did witness it, now would it?

[edit] and for the sake of this discussion, we'll define "unidentifiable" as "not of this Earth" and not within the realm of anything we "know" at this point.

[ntech]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I witnessed an aerial object which I could not and still cannot identify. I've explored most of the usual prosaic explanations for what it might have been. And it's still not something I've been able to identify.

But that would not change the fact that he did witness it, now would it?


Hi Sultanist

The error in this movement and it's influence on some people is that they start with the presumption that until explained it is alien in nature. Those educated in science and the folks that they have influence over, start with the presumption that it is not.

The bad astronomer relayed a story in his book about how one night while looking up he saw a craft which was behaving in an unusual manner for a plane or copter. As rational as he is about alien encounters, he was amazed at what he was seeing. After some time the craft was clearer for him to see and he realized that it was just a plane and the angle he was viewing it gave the impression that it was acting unusually.

[Sultanist]

Hi Sultanist

The error in this movement and it's influence on some people is that they start with the presumption that until explained it is alien in nature.

I absolutely agree, ntech. And that's precisely what's led to our current predicament.
And what is our "current predicament" you might ask.
Well it may be that our current predicament is best explained when Phil Klass (who I greatly admire, btw) opens his garage door one day and sees a flying saucer parked in there, and then says to himself: "I wonder how that weather balloon filled with swamp gas got in my garage".

[R.A.F.]

Just for the sake of argument, let's say that someone did happen to witness
an actual unidentifiable aerial object...snip...and for the sake of this discussion, we'll define "unidentifiable" as "not of this Earth" and not within the realm of anything we "know" at this point.

Sorry, but you can't "have it" both ways. You have "identified" the unidentifiable...it is no longer a UAO...it is a Alien Flying Saucer...if you want to discuss "saucers" then just say so, and stop with all the "word play".

I absolutely agree, ntech. And that's precisely what's led to our current predicament.
And what is our "current predicament" you might ask.

So you agree with ntech that starting with the presumption that until explained it is alien in nature is a problem?....actually, you don't agree at all....

Well it may be that our current predicament is best explained when Phil Klass (who I greatly admire, btw) opens his garage door one day and sees a flying saucer parked in there, and then says to himself: "I wonder how that weather balloon filled with swamp gas got in my garage".

So you would consider that skeptics ignoring evidence of alien visitation is our "current predicament"?? That's an unfounded assumption that "explains" NOTHING.

[Sultanist]

Sorry, but you can't "have it" both ways. You have "identified" the unidentifiable...it is no longer a UAO...it is a Alien Flying Saucer...if you want to discuss "saucers" then just say so, and stop with all the "word play".



So you agree with ntech that starting with the presumption that until explained it is alien in nature is a problem?....actually, you don't agree at all....



So you would consider that skeptics ignoring evidence of alien visitation is our "current predicament"?? That's an unfounded assumption that "explains" NOTHING.


It's about time someone really got pissed at me. What took you so long? :D

My use of "flying saucer" is only a colloquialism. For me it signifies a sighting of an aerial object or other phenomenon which can be either of identifiable, unidentified or unidentifiable origin.
"Aliens" and "alien visitation" are not my concepts. So of course it would follow that, no, I have no reason to expect skeptics to either accept or ignore something that I myself am not particularly focused on.

"So you agree with ntech that starting with the presumption that until explained it is alien in nature is a problem?....actually, you don't agree at all....".
Yes, to reiterate, I actually do agree wholeheartedly with his sentiment. I of course would not have said so if that was not the case.

[Sultanist]

My little jab at Klass was not to be taken literally. Only to provide a metaphor for what I see as that "predicament" the ufonuts have now put us in.
Their influence on us has closed our minds to even the possibility that we can be witness to an "unidentifiable" phenomenon.

[ntech]

If you base your point of view on rational science, an evaluation of anything would be research based on real and proven paths. The thought of an extraterestrial element would not factor in. Not to say that it would never factor in however it would take a discovery of extraterestrial objects, writings, tools, even a single screw established to be not of this planet.

[Sultanist]

If you base your point of view on rational science, an evaluation of anything would be research based on real and proven paths. The thought of an extraterestrial element would not factor in. Not to say that it would never factor in however it would take a discovery of extraterestrial objects, writings, tools, even a single screw established to be not of this planet.
Unfortunately it's now five minutes away from that History Channel presentation of the 100th anniversary of the 1906 event. And then I have to see tonight's episode of Sopranos.
If you'll forgive me I would like to have more than five minutes to get my thoughts together for my reply. But I promise to do so before the night is out.
That is if you're having fun discussing this with me. :)

[ntech]

That is if you're having fun discussing this with me. :)

Sounds good


PS: Thanks for the tip on the History Channel show.

[Sultanist]

If you base your point of view on rational science, an evaluation of anything would be research based on real and proven paths. The thought of an extraterestrial element would not factor in. Not to say that it would never factor in however it would take a discovery of extraterestrial objects, writings, tools, even a single screw established to be not of this planet.
Agreed. With maybe one important caveat. Let me at least try to get you to broaden your perspective.
And hopefully get you to consider the possibility of an existence whose nature may be beyond the scope of science.
An existence which science may not be capable of either confirming or denying for us.

An analogy will help me explain this. Consider a school of minnows encountering a scuba diver in the ocean.
Do the minnows sense the presence of the scuba diver? Yes. Do the minnows comprehend the nature of the scuba diver? No.
Is there any possibility of communication between the minnows and the scuba diver? No.

Also consider this. This is the closest known "intelligence" to our own...

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:5ClCSETv8i4J:davepics.com/Album/2003/12-18.Hawaii_HILX/Dolphin.jpg
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:ELzPGe927ATf1M:www.vacationtechnician .com/assets/mountain%2520gorilla%2520vacationtechnician.com.jp g

Think of degrees of intelligence being the steps of a ladder. The minnow being many steps away from us. The dolphin and the ape on the step adjacent to us.
Is it not possible that the intelligence ladder has hundreds, if not thousands, of steps. And is there not the possibility that there is in existence an intelligence which is even much much higher on the ladder than the amount of separation between us and the minnows?
An intelligence which is so much higher on the ladder that it is not even "knowable" with the human intellect?
An existence, if you will, for which our very concept of "intelligence" may not even be relevant.
But, like the minnows sensing the diver's presence, it may be revealing itself to us in a similiar manner. Even though we just have no capacity to "know" it any other way.

[Sultanist]

By the way, as it turns out I'm not the only one thinking along these lines. You might be interested to know who else is.
About six months after this notion first occurred to me, I discovered that, interestingly, one of today's most high profile "UFO debunkers" is also contemplating exactly the same thing.
That would be Seth Shostak, the much respected SETI astronomer.

[Questioninggeller]

The Travis Walton "abduction" is "crazy."* Walton was the one who got a publishing deal then a Hollywood movie (Fire in the Sky) made out of his tale. He also retold his story on the Larry King Show.


*http://www.csicop.org/klassfiles/SUN-50.html Philip J. Klass' work for CSICOP debunking the story.

[ntech]

An existence, if you will, for which our very concept of "intelligence" may not even be relevant.
But, like the minnows sensing the diver's presence, it may be revealing itself to us in a similiar manner. Even though we just have no capacity to "know" it any other way.


Good thoughts however once we are at this level of awareness there comes a certain responsibility. It is not to deny anything once it is found but to simply not consider the extraordinary until understood. Whether we are or not sufficiently aware of a certain claim means nothing but is that we don't enter such a thought into the equation. It would be simply not known.

In the case that you give I would simply add that at the very least we would be aware fully of at least the presence of an entity. I contend that we have crossed a self aware threshold that I believe gives us the depth enough to understand, somewhat, anything once identified.

[Sultanist]

I believe gives us the depth enough to understand, somewhat, anything once identified.
That highlights the one difference I have with CSICOP's thinking on this.

I haven't closed the door to the possibility of what I've attempted to describe (albeit in my very meager way). The possibility that it may have either already been experienced by someone, or is being experienced, or will be. It would be too presumptious of me to do so.

I believe that in the future we may be able to conceptualize this far better than I am able to do now. And in many ways which are very different from what I'm able to do now.
I wish I could live another thousand years. More than anything I want to know what the future has in store for us.
I guess the only consolation is that at least I didn't have to live a thousand years ago. Because it would seem that what we were thinking then was not very interesting by today's standards.
But then again our descendants in that thousand year future may well have the same appraisal of us. :)

[ntech]

I wish I could live another thousand years. More than anything I want to know what the future has in store for us.


With the mentality in the USA at such a low and a president who comes right out of the twilight zone, my hope is that the planet lasts long enough for my children and perhaps my future grandchildren.

This country counts on a non-existent god to save them from a planet which is rapidly going into the toilet while greed takes over.

I don't believe man is smart enough to last another 1000 years. We have p*ssed in our air and water and have sold our planet away.

[Sultanist]

Well in light of that, this is the part you're gonna balk at. Because it's probably more just wishfulness than anything else.

Yes, I don't disagree. If left to our own devices, our prospects of survival are not looking as good as you and I would hope for.
Maybe that's why I'm so intent on leaving that door open. The one I described for you in the earlier post.
Maybe I'm hoping that there's something on the other side of that door which will be able to help us should the time come that we can no longer survive without help.
Yes, I know. This is now getting dangerously close to faith and religion and such. But that's not surprising I guess since, like L Ron Hubbard, I too am the founder of a religion.
But don't worry, Sultanism doesn't have any gods, has one simple statement of philosophy and only two moral precepts. I like to think of it as the "postcard" religion. :)

[ntech]

I too am the founder of a religion.
But don't worry, Sultanism doesn't have any gods, has one simple statement of philosophy and only two moral precepts. I like to think of it as the "postcard" religion. :)

Interesting.

I do feel however that it is up to us to change our world. If only everyone were taught with an emphasis on science from a very young age there may be hope.

[Meffy]

Bentoism, the faith of which I am the founder and humble first prophet, is the only religion I'm aware of that can prove the truth of its central tenet. To wit and viz.: Japanese box lunches are cool.

But I digress; apologies.