Why there's not a NASA alien coverup conspiracy

[Timothy]

Money.

If anyone higher up than a janitor within NASA had firm evidence of
- Structures on the Moon
- Artifacts on Mars
- UFOs
- etc., etc., etc., blah, blah, blah

there would be a race to get to the microphones at the press conference. Why? NASA's budget allocation would go through the roof. Everyone is scrambling for funding right now. Management at NASA would *love* for there to be aliens ... no one would keep quiet about a funding opportunity like this.

It's all about the benjamins.

- Timothy

[Nyarlathotep]

Money.

If anyone higher up than a janitor within NASA had firm evidence of
- Structures on the Moon
- Artifacts on Mars
- UFOs
- etc., etc., etc., blah, blah, blah

there would be a race to get to the microphones at the press conference. Why? NASA's budget allocation would go through the roof. Everyone is scrambling for funding right now. Management at NASA would *love* for there to be aliens ... no one would keep quiet about a funding opportunity like this.

It's all about the benjamins.

- Timothy

That goes for a lot of popular conspiracy theories, the Medical industry trying to cover up the cure for cancer, the 500 mpg carberator, etc.

[CFLarsen]

There is a coverup. It's covered up, that's all....

[Strider1974]

http://www.supershadow.com/starwars/history.html
" Lucasfilm's unique style of ultra secrecy is utilized on the set. Despite this security, the plot line of the film is leaked bit by bit to the Internet. "

If you can't keep a secret when there are contracts and large amounts of money involved NOT to reveal the secret why do CTers think it is possible for people to keep quiet when the reverse is true.:rolleyes:

[rats]

I find it sad CTers don’t find the real world interesting enough. I think most moderate CTers are just curious, and perhaps a little lazy. It’s much easier and more exciting to believe in aliens than digging through a lot of history to understand the Mayan culture (for example). It’s also infuriating the CTers don’t think humans capable of great achievements.

It would be interesting to see how many alien conspiracy believers also believe in the cancer cure cover-up. If they can’t believe people built pyramids 4000 years ago, how could we possibly have developed the cure for cancer?! Oh wait, didn’t it fall to Earth in a meteorite or something?

I work in the space industry. My dad is very proud, which is nice. When my dad started talking about the moon landing hoax, it was funny he didn’t see the irony. I countered his ‘evidence’ after recovering from a short shocked spell, but to no avail. Apparently, my career is just a big conspiracy!

[Gravy]

Apparently, my career is just a big conspiracy!

How do we know YOU are real? I think I smell a ratbot!

[brodski]

http://www.supershadow.com/starwars/history.html
" Lucasfilm's unique style of ultra secrecy is utilized on the set. Despite this security, the plot line of the film is leaked bit by bit to the Internet. "

If you can't keep a secret when there are contracts and large amounts of money involved NOT to reveal the secret why do CTers think it is possible for people to keep quiet when the reverse is true.:rolleyes:
Because nobody believes that George Lucas would kill to keep the plot of star wars secret (although I probably would have, provided I could keep the plot so secrets, that the latest films would never have been released ;) )PCTers honestly believe that there is a group of fanatics who are willing to murder anyone who gets in their way and are powerful enough to get away with anyting they chose to do. Arguing that there is no financial incentive for the GLOBALISTS minions to keep quiet wont wash with your average PCTer, the dead can't spend money. There are many argument about why the concept of a global omnipotent conspiracy is ridiculous, but the financial motive isn't one of them.

[Flo]

PCTers honestly believe that there is a group of fanatics who are willing to murder anyone who gets in their way and are powerful enough to get away with anyting they chose to do.


Yet PCTers are still very alive despite opposing such fanatics. You'd think that'd make them think about the logic of this particular belief :rolleyes:


(note to self: stop deluding yourself as to PCTers being alive in the brain department)

[brodski]

Yet PCTers are still very alive despite opposing such fanatics. You'd think that'd make them think about the logic of this particular belief :rolleyes:


(note to self: stop deluding yourself as to PCTers being alive in the brain department)
Any relationship between the cherished beliefs of a PCTer and logic is entirely coincidental. Although some of them believe that the conspiracy wouldn't dare touch them, because it would look too suspicious. Like planting explosives in the WTC wouldn't look suspicious! I love the way that PCTers manage to believe that the conspiracy is both omnipotent and totally incompetent at the same time.

[kittynh]

And people are going to always go with "I'll believe it if I see it!"

People have seen "it" because there are a lot of things that are unusual up there. Culture has taught them that anything unusual in the sky is an alien space ship. Memory being really very bad, and altering over time, people come to add in detals and the strenght of the false memory grow over time.

These people agree with a cover up theory, and are the supporters of those that define themselves with a "cause". Hmmm, governement conspiracy investigator....or.....just another accountant?

I get questions from people over and over that will tell me about the UFO they saw "7 years ago". They will not accept any suggestions of what it might have been, because "I know what I saw!"

[tkingdoll]

I tried explaining to someone recently (a big pharma conspiracy woo) that if you discovered a cure for cancer you would instantly and forever become the richest person on the planet. He tried to argue that that only stands true for a cure, because all the new cancer cases would require it, but if you found a way to vaccinate against cancer, you'd only need to do it once. I pointed out that with a vaccine you would be even richer, because there are more people without cancer than with, and you'd vaccinate not only every person on the planet, but all of the people who will be born henceforth.

Which lead to thinking if perhaps we could work out some rough numbers for this to demonstrate just how much a cure for cancer would be worth to the big pharmas who are supposedly suppressing it.

We need number of cancer patients worldwide as a percentage of the population (so we can forecast for future demand) multiplied by the likely market value per cure (assuming that said cure is a one-off dose).

With a bit of digging I can find the first part, but I could do with some input on the latter. Any ideas?

[Psi Baba]

I tried explaining to someone recently (a big pharma conspiracy woo) that if you discovered a cure for cancer you would instantly and forever become the richest person on the planet. He tried to argue that that only stands true for a cure, because all the new cancer cases would require it, but if you found a way to vaccinate against cancer, you'd only need to do it once. I pointed out that with a vaccine you would be even richer, because there are more people without cancer than with, and you'd vaccinate not only every person on the planet, but all of the people who will be born henceforth.

Which lead to thinking if perhaps we could work out some rough numbers for this to demonstrate just how much a cure for cancer would be worth to the big pharmas who are supposedly suppressing it.

We need number of cancer patients worldwide as a percentage of the population (so we can forecast for future demand) multiplied by the likely market value per cure (assuming that said cure is a one-off dose).

With a bit of digging I can find the first part, but I could do with some input on the latter. Any ideas?
Good points, tkingdoll. Another factor is the health insurance industry. One of the few things as big as "Big Pharma" is the insurance industry, whose interests run opposite to those of big pharma. What I mean by that is that a one-time cure for any ailment is much more appealing to insurance companies than long-term maintenance drugs that drag on forever running up coverage costs. If such cures were available and the insurance industry got wind of them, no way would they be supressed. And personally, I believe the insurance industry to be way more evil and insidious than the pharaceutical industry, so they are more like to have things their way. How could "pharma" supress cures that could save insurance companies millions? Ain't happenin'.

[Flo]

Any relationship between the cherished beliefs of a PCTer and logic is entirely coincidental. Although some of them believe that the conspiracy wouldn't dare touch them, because it would look too suspicious. Like planting explosives in the WTC wouldn't look suspicious! I love the way that PCTers manage to believe that the conspiracy is both omnipotent and totally incompetent at the same time.


I guess you're also guilty of overestimating them. In my experience, they never even get to the point where they realise their life might be in danger, should the conspiration actually exist. When you point it to them, the usual response is a big "Uh ?" ...

[brodski]

I guess you're also guilty of overestimating them. In my experience, they never even get to the point where they realise their life might be in danger, should the conspiration actually exist. When you point it to them, the usual response is a big "Uh ?" ...
Somebody (I think it was either RandFan or Delphi_ote) asked why these guys weren’t in fear of their lives for making loose change or posting on its message board, sever of the responses where along the lines that that now that they have publicly talked about the conspiracy, they are too high profile for the GLOBALISTS to "get to". I would link to the thread, but I can't face wading through their filth to find it, sorry.

[Flo]

Somebody (I think it was either RandFan or Delphi_ote) asked why these guys weren’t in fear of their lives for making loose change or posting on its message board, sever of the responses where along the lines that that now that they have publicly talked about the conspiracy, they are too high profile for the GLOBALISTS to "get to"..

Yes, I've noticed their tendency towards megalomania too ;)

I would link to the thread, but I can't face wading through their filth to find it, sorry

Don't worry about it, I've got plenty of material to work on with (http://forum.sceptiques.qc.ca/viewtopic.php?t=2466) :D

[Psiload]

Somebody (I think it was either RandFan or Delphi_ote) asked why these guys weren’t in fear of their lives for making loose change or posting on its message board, sever of the responses where along the lines that that now that they have publicly talked about the conspiracy, they are too high profile for the GLOBALISTS to "get to". I would link to the thread, but I can't face wading through their filth to find it, sorry.
Yet the Loosers also believe JFK was assassinated by "them". Their profiles are higher than JFK's?

[pmckean]

Although both require belief without proof, I have trouble reconciling most conspiracy theorists with believers in the paranormal. Mostly, this is because it's certainly conceivable and possible that major conspiracies and cover-ups could occur, have occurred and will occur again. Watergate is an example, I suppose.

It's not so big a leap, therefore, to conclude that a sizeable conspiracy and cover-up is presently in operation for something or other. I have no opinion at all on what/if that might be - I just think it's within the bounds of possibility.

A parallel might be cryptozoology; there are lots of fancifully described cryptids spotted in the wild, and most will turn out to be nonsense, lies and misreporting. However there ARE many new species discovered every year, so whilst we can use our head-mounted gullibility filter to rule out the Loch Ness Monster and the Sasquatch, the Coelacanth is living proof that weird prehistoric species still make it from time to time.

Contrast this with the typical claimed abilities of psychics, fortune tellers, homeopaths et al, all of whom require a wholesale rewrite of physics...

[Flo]

Although both require belief without proof, I have trouble reconciling most conspiracy theorists with believers in the paranormal. Mostly, this is because it's certainly conceivable and possible that major conspiracies and cover-ups could occur, have occurred and will occur again. Watergate is an example, I suppose.

It's not so big a leap, therefore, to conclude that a sizeable conspiracy and cover-up is presently in operation for something or other. I have no opinion at all on what/if that might be - I just think it's within the bounds of possibility.

A parallel might be cryptozoology; there are lots of fancifully described cryptids spotted in the wild, and most will turn out to be nonsense, lies and misreporting. However there ARE many new species discovered every year, so whilst we can use our head-mounted gullibility filter to rule out the Loch Ness Monster and the Sasquatch, the Coelacanth is living proof that weird prehistoric species still make it from time to time.

Contrast this with the typical claimed abilities of psychics, fortune tellers, homeopaths et al, all of whom require a wholesale rewrite of physics...


The similarity lies in theire reliance on the argument by ignorance, the belief in their superiority ("I think outside the box/ know something that you don't / am no pawn of the government"), and more than often some hidden agenda, be it religious or political.

[brodski]

Yet the Loosers also believe JFK was assassinated by "them". Their profiles are higher than JFK's?
But they would argue that there could conceivably be more reasons to assassinate JFK than just the fact that he had discovered that the Federal Reserve was not US govt owned (or whatever reason they give), so the fact of his assignation would not be evidence of the conspiracy in itself (except when they want to use the fact of his assignation to try and "prove" the conspiracy) but if they where murdered, it would be conclusive proof that the conspiracy was trying to keep them quiet. You see, the conspiracy is quite capable of convincing the world that a controlled demolition of the WTC was actually a terrorist act caused by crashing planes into the building, but is not capable of making a few sad cases posting their delusions on the internet "disappear".

[rats]

How do we know YOU are real? I think I smell a ratbot!

Do ratbots smell?

[Luke T.]

Remember, kids, denying there is a coverup is evidence of a coverup.

[tsg]

Somebody (I think it was either RandFan or Delphi_ote) asked why these guys weren’t in fear of their lives for making loose change or posting on its message board, sever of the responses where along the lines that that now that they have publicly talked about the conspiracy, they are too high profile for the GLOBALISTS to "get to". I would link to the thread, but I can't face wading through their filth to find it, sorry.

In other words, "they" have the capability and power to maintain a vast conspiracy and yet lack the means of making the exposer's "removal" look like an accident. Simultaneous omnipotence and incompetence rears its ugly head yet again.

[Manny]

I tried explaining to someone recently (a big pharma conspiracy woo) that if you discovered a cure for cancer you would instantly and forever become the richest person on the planet. He tried to argue that that only stands true for a cure, because all the new cancer cases would require it, but if you found a way to vaccinate against cancer, you'd only need to do it once. I pointed out that with a vaccine you would be even richer, because there are more people without cancer than with, and you'd vaccinate not only every person on the planet, but all of the people who will be born henceforth.

Which lead to thinking if perhaps we could work out some rough numbers for this to demonstrate just how much a cure for cancer would be worth to the big pharmas who are supposedly suppressing it.

We need number of cancer patients worldwide as a percentage of the population (so we can forecast for future demand) multiplied by the likely market value per cure (assuming that said cure is a one-off dose).

With a bit of digging I can find the first part, but I could do with some input on the latter. Any ideas?
I'm not sure it would help. The key for the "supressed product" CTers is that the cancer cure/200 mph carburator/whatever is so mindbogglingly simple that no one could possibly make any money off it because it couldn't be patented -- that's why the eeeeeeevil corporations supress it. The cancer vaccine wouldn't be some advanced combination of nanobot technology and engineered viruses but something like 'eat raw broccoli under a high ceiling with a blue light bulb.' The 200 mph carburator doesn't involve re-engineering the gasoline in the world and rethinking internal combustion engines but something like 'increasing the spray of the gas in the chamber by using a pre-existing 4-cent part.'

[DJ Hexadecibel]

And remember. . .it's Just a Ride. . .:D

[tsg]

The key for the "supressed product" CTers is that the cancer cure/200 mph carburator/whatever is so mindbogglingly simple that no one could possibly make any money off it because it couldn't be patented

In which case it wouldn't take eeeeeeevil corporations to develop it.

[Nyarlathotep]

I'm not sure it would help. The key for the "supressed product" CTers is that the cancer cure/200 mph carburator/whatever is so mindbogglingly simple that no one could possibly make any money off it because it couldn't be patented -- that's why the eeeeeeevil corporations supress it. The cancer vaccine wouldn't be some advanced combination of nanobot technology and engineered viruses but something like 'eat raw broccoli under a high ceiling with a blue light bulb.' The 200 mph carburator doesn't involve re-engineering the gasoline in the world and rethinking internal combustion engines but something like 'increasing the spray of the gas in the chamber by using a pre-existing 4-cent part.'

I once heard a guy give a similar explanation as to why the eeeviiil energy corporations were "suppressing" solar energy technology. His explanation was they did this because one can't sell sunlight. He said this totally oblivious to the fact that while one indeed can't sell sunlight, one CAn sell solar panels and such. And if they were efficient and practical, one could make a tidy profit at it too.

[tsg]

I once heard a guy give a similar explanation as to why the eeeviiil energy corporations were "suppressing" solar energy technology. His explanation was they did this because one can't sell sunlight. He said this totally oblivious to the fact that while one indeed can't sell sunlight, one CAn sell solar panels and such. And if they were efficient and practical, one could make a tidy profit at it too.

And also ignores that power plants use power and could thus reduce their costs (and therefore increase their profits) by implementing solar power...

And doctors are willing to die from preventable diseases in order to maintain the business model....

[rats]

Hang on! Doesn’t Henry van Statten own the internet? Isn’t he keeping the cure for the common cold under wraps so he can make more money out of treatments?

Apologies to non Doctor Who fans, but I couldn’t help it!

[Luke T.]

And law enforcement doesn't want the crime rate to go down since their jobs depend on it.

[Nyarlathotep]

And law enforcement doesn't want the crime rate to go down since their jobs depend on it.

And scientists don't want to make announce any major new discoveries, like the existance of ESP, since it would be the ruination of their careers.

[Walk The Line]

Do ratbots smell?


Perhaps he meant "Ratbert." Only Ratbert has the cunning and ingenuity to hide a coverup of this scale. After all, Ratbert was the VP of marketing who became the CEO of Dilbert's company, only to later be fired for varnishing employees. But was he really fired, or was it a cover-up by the globalists to ensure that Ratbert would continue to rule with an iron fist behind the scenes? Only one person has the answer...Scott Adams.

But is he a globalist too?

[casebro]

Good points, tkingdoll. Another factor is the health insurance industry. One of the few things as big as "Big Pharma" is the insurance industry, whose interests run opposite to those of big pharma. What I mean by that is that a one-time cure for any ailment is much more appealing to insurance companies than long-term maintenance drugs that drag on forever running up coverage costs. If such cures were available and the insurance industry got wind of them, no way would they be supressed. And personally, I believe the insurance industry to be way more evil and insidious than the pharaceutical industry, so they are more like to have things their way. How could "pharma" supress cures that could save insurance companies millions? Ain't happenin'.

Yes, but, looking one layer deeper into the conspiracy:

If we could vaccinate against cancer, heart disease, and arthritis, who would ever buy insurance to begin with? (play big spooky music here- DOOO- DDOOOMP)

[geni]

http://www.supershadow.com/starwars/history.html
" Lucasfilm's unique style of ultra secrecy is utilized on the set. Despite this security, the plot line of the film is leaked bit by bit to the Internet. "


Supershadow is not a valid source of anything.

[tsg]

You know, it just occurred to me how similar the PCT'ers insistence on "doing your homework" is to the religious type's proselytizing of their beliefs. They honestly think the only reason people don't believe the same things they do is that they haven't heard it before. It's as if they can't conceive of someone possibly being familiar with the arguments and rejecting them. The "truth" is, apparently, that obvious.

[tsg]

Yes, but, looking one layer deeper into the conspiracy:

If we could vaccinate against cancer, heart disease, and arthritis, who would ever buy insurance to begin with? (play big spooky music here- DOOO- DDOOOMP)

Do they think we can vaccinate against car accidents?

[casebro]

Do they think we can vaccinate against car accidents?

Alien technology will handle that, when we put asteroid evasion systems into our cars.

[Nyarlathotep]

You know, it just occurred to me how similar the PCT'ers insistence on "doing your homework" is to the religious type's proselytizing of their beliefs. They honestly think the only reason people don't believe the same things they do is that they haven't heard it before. It's as if they can't conceive of someone possibly being familiar with the arguments and rejecting them. The "truth" is, apparently, that obvious.

One can draw a whole lot of parallels between PCTers and religious apologists.

1) their insistance on arguments from incredulity is very similar to the 'God of the gaps' type of theories

2) Just as many religious apologists believe that if you would read the Bible/Quran/whatever "with an open mind" you'd believe, so too do they seem to beleive that if you would just look at whatever video or book they are getting their spew from, you'd see the light.

3) Like creationists, usually the only evidence they can find to support their theories is finding "holes" in a competing theory.

4) Also like creationists, science and scientists are wonderful things when they feel that scientific findings support them, but when science is used against their theories then science is a tool of the devil/in league with the conspiracy.

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I could find many more if I tried.

[bjb]

The NASA coverup idea is very amusing to me because the evidence for the structures on Mars came from NASA in the first place. In fact, some NASA and aerospace 'insiders' took the matter very seriously. I first heard of the faces on Mars back in the late 80's, when I was working on the GPS satellite program. The story had already been in the tabloids but I was told by my co-workers that the NASA data had been analyzed by some image processing experts and the existence of the face could not be disproven. Something was there that was real and kind of looked like a face, but this didn't wasn't proof that a face was actually there.

My brother was working for NASA in Houston at the time and he told me about a meeting he was attending that discussed the upcoming Mars Observer mission. At one point, a NASA guy interrupted and asked what was going to be done about the face on Mars. The guy in charge of the meeting asked what he meant about a face on Mars and the guy went into a short description of the alleged structure. He didn't go so far as to suggest there was a whole city on Mars, but everyone else in the room thought the guy was nuts so he really didn't get much of an answer. Being a smart-ass runs in the family, so my brother called out, "It's not a face, it's Elvis!", which got a laugh from the room and ended the discussion. Eventually, though, NASA management changed their minds and did include some observations of the face in the later Mars Global Surveyor mission, but of course, the pictures turned out to show it was a natural structure:

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/msss/camera/images/moc_5_24_01/face/