Bumper sticker. . .(shudder)

[DJ Hexadecibel]

'Ello all! 'Nother random incident that occured yesterday. I was driving to my friend's place when I saw a Cherokee with the bumper sticker:

EVOLUTION IS A LIE!

:jaw-dropp

Ugh...I so wanted to follow them and give them a th. . .er, enlighten them to the scientific research saying otherwise. I'd reassure them that it was no conspiracy, and that should we find any evidence of a creator, that I'd be sure to let them know. Of course, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but why so many people choose to live in ignorance. . .just boggles my mind.

"Do y'all notice how Creationists look really. . .unevolved? Eyes real close together; big, furry hands and feet. All 'believe God created me in one day.' Yeah, it LOOKS like he rushed it."
-Bill Hicks

[Pauliesonne]

'Ello all! 'Nother random incident that occured yesterday. I was driving to my friend's place when I saw a Cherokee with the bumper sticker:

EVOLUTION IS A LIE!

:jaw-dropp

Ugh...I so wanted to follow them and give them a th. . .er, enlighten them to the scientific research saying otherwise. I'd reassure them that it was no conspiracy, and that should we find any evidence of a creator, that I'd be sure to let them know. Of course, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but why so many people choose to live in ignorance. . .just boggles my mind.

"Do y'all notice how Creationists look really. . .unevolved? Eyes real close together; big, furry hands and feet. All 'believe God created me in one day.' Yeah, it LOOKS like he rushed it."
-Bill Hicks

If evolution is a lie then I 'm not a great f**k and I AM A GREAT F**K!!!

[Zep]

If evolution is a lie then I 'm not a great f**k and I AM A GREAT F**K!!!Been down the pub too long, Pauli?

[This Guy]

On the bright side, I saw one on a car in a parking lot the other night.

Born OK
The first time

I had to chuckle out loud on that.

[tkingdoll]

can't we just counter this with our own

Intelligent Design is a lie

stickers?

Or is that too aggressive?

[Rufo]

Ugh...I so wanted to follow them and give them a th. . .er, enlighten them to the scientific research saying otherwise. I'd reassure them that it was no conspiracy, and that should we find any evidence of a creator, that I'd be sure to let them know. Of course, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but why so many people choose to live in ignorance. . .just boggles my mind.
Oh, I'm sure these people are just sceptics. They have made the perfectly logical decision not to believe in evolution because they have seen no evidence of it. Which might depend on their funny little habit to gun down anyone in a radius of 100 meters who mentions evolution.

can't we just counter this with our own

Intelligent Design is a lie

stickers?

Or is that too aggressive?
Perhaps imitating an idiotic statement won't make us look much smarter than them, but this one certainly looks less aggressive than the first one with capitals and an exclamation mark...

[Terry]

If evolution is a lie then I 'm not a great f**k and I AM A GREAT F**K!!!

Evidence?

[Pauliesonne]

Evidence?

give me a couple of days and I'll post a photo of me and my sex slaves, male and female, in one BIG orgie...../..

[SkepticX]

I don't know how many of you will remember the "I found it!" craze, but toward the end, as it waned, and as with all such fads, lots of humorous variations started showing up, like "I lost it" and "I missed it by that much" and "I tried to lose it but it came back" (etc). I only saw it once, but my favorite was "I almost stepped in it." I was a devout Christian back then and I still thought that was hilarious!

I know . . . I'm easily amused . . .

Byron

[SPQR]

Intelligent Design is a lie

A more orignal and accurate saying would be:

There is No Evidence for Intelligent Design

[kurious_kathy]

I saw an t-shirt design I am ordering and personally think it deserves to be a bumper sticker. "God doesn't believe in atheists" I think it says something!

[tkingdoll]

A more orignal and accurate saying would be:

There is No Evidence for Intelligent Design

Sadly, though, that plays into the hands of the IDers. Bumper stickers are supposed to be a put-down, a 'cussed yo momma' kind of thing.

It needs to be in yer face! That's what sensationalism is about. We might be right, but they have the guts to call us liars. Groovy, let's call 'em names right back.

I vote for:

Intelligent Design Is Stupid.

It implies that IDers are stupid just as they imply that supporters of evolution are liars.

[tkingdoll]

I saw an t-shirt design I am ordering and personally think it deserves to be a bumper sticker. "God doesn't believe in atheists" I think it says alot!!

Does it say anything about "a lot" not being all one word?

[kurious_kathy]

Does it say anything about "a lot" not being all one word?I know I use slang too much. Oh well.

[kedo1981]

I always cringe when I see the bumper sticker “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven”.
Meaning (in my small brain at least) “the way I behave is irrelevant cause I’m Gods buddy”

[This Guy]

I always cringe when I see the bumper sticker “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven”.
Meaning (in my small brain at least) “the way I behave is irrelevant cause I’m Gods buddy”

Wasn't Job God's buddy? ;-)

[kedo1981]

Satan was too

[kurious_kathy]

I always cringe when I see the bumper sticker “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven”.
Meaning (in my small brain at least) “the way I behave is irrelevant cause I’m Gods buddy”
I don't care for that one as a bumper sticker. I saw one last week that I almost got that said "Higher Powered" I think I'll have to go back and get that one.

[aargh57]

What's wrong with "There is No Evidence for Intelligent Design"? I realize that bumper stickers like "Evolution is a Lie" are meant to be put-downs but ours would actually be true. You won't change anyone's mind either way but at least we could have the intelectual and moral high ground.

BTW, bumper stickers, any bumper stickers, are uncool. Same goes for avatars.

[Skeptic]

Wasn't Job God's buddy? ;-)

"Okay, okay, but, er, if you shove a live snake up his @$$, I'll bet that Job will curse your name..."

Sheesh. I always got the feeling Satan outsmarted God REALLY well in that book.

[Lothian]

I saw an t-shirt design I am ordering and personally think it deserves to be a bumper sticker. "God doesn't believe in atheists" I think it says something!It does. It says that god is not omniscient.

[swstephe]

are you sure that the owner of the bumper sticker is an IDer? maybe the owner is a radical solipsist, (and evolution of ones ancestors exists outside of oneself, the universe, so it can be excluded as a non-truth). -- or perhaps he is challenging the mitsubishi lancer evolution (sports car)'s claims.

perhaps he abscribes to some other "world view", such as the one with elephants standing on top of tortoises -- or the great sneeze.

[BPScooter]

a thought in need of a slogan, the sort of thing that has bugged me for a while:

I am intellingent, therefore I suspect I may have been designed to be so
I begin to wonder what "intelligence" and "design" mean
I examine evidence and contemplate models of intellingence
I lose my interest in the concept of design as it relates to my very being, but retain it in the attitude toward my works
I become more fascinated by the explanations from others' works--those baboons in the last Scientific American were interesting. Social behavior as regional adaptation.. hmmm

A slogan for that process, suitable for bumper sticker, would be cool to me. Maybe a little fish that invents a computer that makes up a God that explains fishness to the fish. A little Turing Fish machine next to it.

OK, I give up. Discussion by car ornament is not one of the main avenues for any of this, after all.

[wolfgirl]

'Ello all! 'Nother random incident that occured yesterday. I was driving to my friend's place when I saw a Cherokee with the bumper sticker:

EVOLUTION IS A LIE!I live just north of the Kansas City area on the Missouri side, but I work in the city and regularly drive back and forth between Kansas and Missouri. There is a billboard on I-35 just after you cross over into Kansas from downtown Kansas City that says "Evolution is a fairy tale for grown-ups." Of course, it's Kansas, so what do you expect, but jeez!!! The people who believe in a talking snake, a man living inside of a whale, a big boat filled magically with millions of animals, and someone coming back from the dead (after turning water into wine and other magical acts) are calling someone else's theory a fairy tale?!?!?! Unbelievable!

[wolfgirl]

This is sort of off-topic because it's about Bush-bashing, but it's also sort of on-topic because it's about a bumper sticker, so forgive me...

I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said "How You Like Him Now?" I loved it! I immediately went home to try to find one to order for myself, but I couldn't find one anywhere. Anybody know where I might find one?

[SPQR]

What's wrong with "There is No Evidence for Intelligent Design"? I realize that bumper stickers like "Evolution is a Lie" are meant to be put-downs but ours would actually be true. You won't change anyone's mind either way but at least we could have the intelectual and moral high ground.

That's what I was going for.

Why get into a philosophocial debate with these people when the evidence is on our side?

I do see your point, tkinkdoll.

[HeyLeroy]

give me a couple of days and I'll post a photo of me and my sex slaves, male and female, in one BIG orgie...../..

[ready barfbag] We're all reeeealy looking forward to this. Thanks for the heads-up. [/ready barfbag]

Sadly, though, that plays into the hands of the IDers. Bumper stickers are supposed to be a put-down, a 'cussed yo momma' kind of thing.

It needs to be in yer face! That's what sensationalism is about. We might be right, but they have the guts to call us liars. Groovy, let's call 'em names right back.

I vote for:

Intelligent Design Is Stupid.

It implies that IDers are stupid just as they imply that supporters of evolution are liars.

I second this one.

[DJ Hexadecibel]

This is sort of off-topic because it's about Bush-bashing, but it's also sort of on-topic because it's about a bumper sticker, so forgive me...

I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said "How You Like Him Now?" I loved it! I immediately went home to try to find one to order for myself, but I couldn't find one anywhere. Anybody know where I might find one?

Well, bumper stickers really are on topic in this thread. I really wasn't able to find "How You Like Him Now?" but found these instead:
http://www.stampandshout.com/shop/bumper-stickers/frodo-failed.php
http://www.cafepress.com/buy/bumper-stickers/-/pv_design_details/pg_1/id_12616052/opt_/fpt_/c_/hlv_t
http://www.cafepress.com/buy/bush/-/pv_design_details/pg_1/id_12619871/opt_/fpt_________F______P___b7_a2_H/c_76/hlv_t
And my personal favourite:
http://www.cafepress.com/buy/bush/-/pv_design_details/pg_2/id_12613211/opt_/fpt_________F______P___b7_a2_H/c_76/hlv_t

[Aurelian]

I don't care for that one as a bumper sticker. I saw one last week that I almost got that said "Higher Powered" I think I'll have to go back and get that one.

"Higher Powered" is usually a reference that the owner is at least familiar with the tenets of AA/NA/[Insert vice]Anonymous, and is often a non-religious reference to someone who is in recovery.
:rolleyes:

[hh-dragon]

My favorite...

"When the Rapture comes, can I have your car?"

[DJ Hexadecibel]

I'd like to see: "Waiting for the Rapture, kegger at my place where we can ring in the new Age of Reason"

[andyandy]

bumper sticker....

how about the metaphorical

"your momma's a monkey..."

[Anacoluthon64]

Some proposals for a bumper sticker in response to the one proclaiming "Evolution Is A Lie!":

"Intelligent Design Is Neither."
"Intelligent Design Supporters Have An Irreducible Complex."
"Creation Science Wasn't Very Intelligently Designed."

'Luthon64

[Pauliesonne]

" Get up you son of a bitch because God loves you! "

[Genesius]

An interesting (well, to me, anyway) juxtaposition of bumperstickers I once saw on a car.

"Come the Rapture this car will be an unmanned vehicle"

and

"My other car is a Romulan Warbird"

Romulan fundies?!?

[The Mutha]

I have a t-shirt that says "God was my co-pilot until we crashed into that mountain and I had to eat him"... Gets quite a few looks when I wear it around.

[DJ Hexadecibel]

bumper sticker....

how about the metaphorical

"your momma's a monkey..."

"His ancestors were cats, much like your ancestors swung from trees."

"ANCESTORS? His GRANDPARENTS swung from trees."
-Robert Llewellyn & Chris Eigerman Red Dwarf USA

[gnome]

The sound bite is the domain of the ignorant--we're not gonna win that battle.

[Miss Whiplash]

If it makes you feel better, I saw several bumperstickers in nearby Chapel Hill that read:

"Christians - can't live with them, can't throw them to the lions anymore..."

I'm still trying to find one for my car.

[jj]

Sadly, though, that plays into the hands of the IDers. Bumper stickers are supposed to be a put-down, a 'cussed yo momma' kind of thing.

It needs to be in yer face! That's what sensationalism is about. We might be right, but they have the guts to call us liars. Groovy, let's call 'em names right back.

I vote for:

Intelligent Design Is Stupid.

It implies that IDers are stupid just as they imply that supporters of evolution are liars.

You need to get it down a bit more, how about:

Intellegent Design Ain't!

[jj]

It does. It says that god is not omniscient.

Oh, oh, did KK just say something blasphemous? I think so!

[jj]

My favorite...

"When the Rapture comes, can I have your car?"


I like that one.

How about:

The rapture came. You're still here!

[strathmeyer]

"My other ride is your mom"

[morningstar2651]

What about this (http://www.cafepress.com/landoverbaptist.36071440) one.

"intelligunt desine"

[Spindrift]

Picture of a platypus, Doo-doo bird, GW Bush

Underneath:
Intelligent Design?

[bobcarp]

The definition of "Born Again"... making the same mistake twice...

[Tricky]

How about a new group, CAN

Christians Against Nolledge.

[hh-dragon]

Oldie but goodie:

"Jesus is coming... look busy!"

[Aardvark]

http://www.darwinfish.co.uk/

http://www.evolvefish.com/

http://www.stickergiant.com/page/sg/PROD/bfp/b2468

[DJ Hexadecibel]

Figures. . .Like Christmas and Easter, they gotta swipe the good stuff from us! Sheesh . . .http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/pagan-symbols.html

[Oleron]

How about a new group, CAN

Christians Against Nolledge.

:dl:

That one's my favourite.

[Euromutt]

Personally, I'm looking forward to applying this one (http://www.jinx.com/scripts/details.asp?affid=-1&s=1&productID=343) to my rear bumper:JESUS SAVES
... and only takes half damage.For all you gamers out there.

[CP489]

I like the "Don't pray in my school, and I won't think in your church" shirt.

[supercorgi]

I saw two on a car today which I liked:

What would Scooby-Do?

And my personal favorite:

If God is your co-pilot, what makes you think you can operate the rest of the car?

[Ririon]

"Atheists scream YOUR name during sex." :p

[Meffy]

"His ancestors were cats, much like your ancestors swung from trees."
Nothing wrong with that. Except my ancestors rummaged on the forest floor for small edible things. Skunks swinging from trees -- there's a silly idea! =^_^=

On the bumper sticker thing. If you have to spread it across both sides of the bumper, it's not catchy enough. Pithy must be the watchword. Pithy, with a "th."

[Tony]

I saw an t-shirt design I am ordering and personally think it deserves to be a bumper sticker. "God doesn't believe in atheists" I think it says something!

Do you typically promote anti-christian and non-biblical messages?

[DJ Hexadecibel]

"Atheists scream YOUR name during sex." :p

"Oh God, maybe! Oh God, maybe not. . . Oh, Chaos Theory! "

[EatatJoes]

If I didn't care what my co-workers thought of me, I'd have a bumper sticker that would read, "Your God's a D*ck".

[Ausmerican]

How about the following for an anti ID bumper sticker...
One who believes in evolution = Evolutionist,
One who believes in Intelligent Design = IDiot.

[Huntster]

If I didn't care what my co-workers thought of me, I'd have a bumper sticker that would read, "Your God's a D*ck".

I don't have to care what my coworkers think of me. We've all been working together for up to 30 years. We've spent more time with each other than we have our own siblings. Those who are "new" are among us in spirit, because their spouses are in theater.

We're like brothers/sisters. Regardless what we think of each other, we take care of each other.

If you showed up here with a bumper sticker like that, you'd get your ass whipped.

Now, in contrast, if it read "My God's a D*ck", you might be a hit.

[Meffy]

So the answer to "WWJD?" is "whip the asses of people whose message he doesn't want to hear"? I'd been wondering about that. Infinite love works in mysterious ways. It's true!

[Dr Adequate]

Atheists aren't perfect. But at least they don't think they're "forgiven".

[DJ Hexadecibel]

So let me get this straight: "Eternal damnation awaits those who question God's infinite love. That's the message, right, that we're brought with? 'BELIEVE OR DIE!' 'Thank you, Forgiving Lord, for all those options!'"
-Bill Hicks


EDIT: It's True!

[Temporal Renegade]

Well, since we're making suggestions, here's a few of my faves:

Nuke an unborn gay baby whale for Jesus!

I don't need a new religion. I haven't used up the Old one.

Real Men love Jesus. He looks fantastic in a miniskirt!

He's YOUR God. They're YOUR rules. YOU burn in Hell!

SO MANY CHRISTIANS -- SO FEW LIONS

I found Jesus. He was in my trunk when I got back from Tijuana.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

The sticker "intelligent design is stupid" IS stupid.


I like the one that says "intelligunt desine".

[Kopji]

DOG LIVES!
Man are we atheists messed up.

[Kopji]

WW_D?
I'd like to buy a vowel

[DJ Hexadecibel]

HAHAHAHA! "I'd like to buy a vowel. .. " never saw that one. That's most clever!

[kurious_kathy]

Atheists aren't perfect. But at least they don't think they're "forgiven".
And what exactly is so wrong with believing in God's forgiveness of sin? Wev'e all siined, we've been born into this fallen world full of it! I just pray God keeps me drawing closer to Him now each day so I never fall into the trap of sin ruining and controlling my life. A repentive heart is a new beginning. This is a good thing and represents one being,"Born Again."
John 3:3....Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Unless youv'e had this spirtual awakening you can not see how truely great our God is! Receiving Jesus as your Lord and Saviour really wakes us up.

I'm gona make a new bumper sticker that you guys have truely inspired me to do...."Christianity Isn't For Wimps!"

[Dr Adequate]

And what exactly is so wrong with believing in God's forgiveness of sin? The notion that you can be forgiven by your imaginary friend for injuries inflicted on real people.

Unless youv'e had this spirtual awakening you can not see how truely great our God is! Receiving Jesus as your Lord and Saviour really wakes us up. I am an ex-Christian. I do know what you're talking about. Sadly, it isn't true.

[Dr Adequate]

The notion that you can be forgiven by your imaginary friend for injuries inflicted on real people. Here's a prime example:

What's the difference in your opinion between being humanistic in your thinking or Christian in your thinking? To me one means trying to be more of a people pleaser. The other a God pleaser.Given a choice between being pleasant to the actual, real people around you, you convince yourself that your behavior is pleasing to your imaginary friend, and so that makes it all right.

[supercorgi]

I am an ex-Christian. I do know what you're talking about. Sadly, it isn't true.
As many times as we've repeated it, that's the fact that KK is too dim to understand. The people replying to her are almost all ex-Christians or current Christians. But we're not (or were'nt) her flavor of bible-thumping, brainwashed Christians so our opinions don't matter.

[Anacoluthon64]

And what exactly is so wrong with believing in God's forgiveness of sin?
Convoluted.
The answer depends on one's definitions of "wrong," "god," "forgiveness" and "sin." Defining each as a convenient fiction provides an answer, but not one I think we'll agree on.

Wev'e all siined, we've been born into this fallen world full of it!
Facile.
So we "sinned," one presumes, as foetuses. By osmosis, perhaps, or proxy? And wouldn't it be specious of us to acknowledge "sins" we can't even remember?

I just pray God keeps me drawing closer to Him now each day so I never fall into the trap of sin ruining and controlling my life.
Subjective.
To do so is your prerogative. But how do you know that you're not being misled, either by yourself or by subtle misdirection employed by the forces of evil?

A repentive heart is a new beginning.
Occasionally.
Sometimes a bunch of flowers, a box of chocolates and dining out accomplish the same or more.

This is a good thing and represents one being,"Born Again."
Debatable.
What are the miscarriage and crib death rates for these rebirths?

John 3:3....Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Outdated.
Anacoluthon64 1:1 ... JREF answered and said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one examines the precepts he cannot see his being deluded."

Unless youv'e had this spirtual awakening you can not see how truely great our God is!
Agreed.
The true size of god is evident through such means. A pair of rose-tinted glasses and a terminally supercilious attitude, however, invert the vision.

Receiving Jesus as your Lord and Saviour really wakes us up.
Unproven.
However, if you are right then Marx was wrong: religion is the amphetamine, not the opiate of the people.

I'm gona make a new bumper sticker that you guys have truely inspired me to do...."Christianity Isn't For Wimps!"
Oxymoronic.
Wimps generally have an overly acute sense of self-preservation, so perhaps it would be more accurate to change the "Isn't" to "Is."

'Luthon64

[Cheesejoff]

"All bumper stickers are lies"

That should confuse them.

[DJ Hexadecibel]

"All bumper stickers are lies"

That should confuse them.

Or how about "This Bumper Sticker Isn't True"

[Meffy]

Okay, you'd need a long bumper but the thought's what counts.

Q: How do you keep an idiot busy for hours?
A: Answer on other side of sticker.

[DJ Hexadecibel]

Nah, I think that'd fit, Meffy. You could shorten the answer by saying "Turn Sticker Over" instead?

[Darat]

Nah, I think that'd fit, Meffy. You could shorten the answer by saying "Turn Sticker Over" instead?

Okay, you'd need a long bumper but the thought's what counts.

Q: How do you keep an idiot busy for hours?
A: Answer on other side of sticker.

Or

Q: How do you keep an idiot busy for hours?
A: P.T.O

Or

Free IQ Test!
P.T.O.

[Dr Adequate]

Footprints in the Sand

One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord. Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky.

In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand. Sometimes there were two sets of footprints, other times there was one only.

This bothered me because I noticed that during the low periods of my life, when I was suffering from anguish, sorrow or defeat, I could see only one set of footprints, so I said to the Lord,

“You promised me Lord, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I have noticed that during the most trying periods of my life there has only been one set of footprints in the sand. Why, when I needed you most, have you not been there for me?”

The Lord replied, “The years when you have seen only one set of footprints, my child, is when I carried you.”

So I said, “Lord, during the times when, as you claim, you were carrying me, why did it feel like there was an enormous weight on my shoulders?”

And he went away to think of another metaphor.

[Meffy]

In my version, the Lord replies "Where you see but one set of footprints... I stepped out to Miami Beach, headed over to Wolfie Cohen's 'Rascal House.' Have you ever had their corned beef sandwich? Mag-NIF-i-cent! Now, what were you going on about again?"

[kurious_kathy]

Footprints in the Sand

One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord. Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky.

In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand. Sometimes there were two sets of footprints, other times there was one only.

This bothered me because I noticed that during the low periods of my life, when I was suffering from anguish, sorrow or defeat, I could see only one set of footprints, so I said to the Lord,

“You promised me Lord, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I have noticed that during the most trying periods of my life there has only been one set of footprints in the sand. Why, when I needed you most, have you not been there for me?”

The Lord replied, “The years when you have seen only one set of footprints, my child, is when I carried you.”

So I said, “Lord, during the times when, as you claim, you were carrying me, why did it feel like there was an enormous weight on my shoulders?”

And he went away to think of another metaphor.
DR.Adequate, we all go through times of testing while we are alive in this world. God cares about our faith being real so I guess that's why He tests us to prove our faith is genuine.

I felt for many years God was not with me, but I was wrong. It's because I fell away from church and abiding in Him that I got pretty beat up out there. Abiding in Christ means to abide in His Word .I'll never go back to playing with fire. God's Word is true. It's our sin that seperates us from God. Jesus reconciles us with God and he also give us the strength to turn away from our sin. Are we perfect no, but He is faithful to forgive us anyway if we ask.

I think it's sad that so many people on this forum don't believe in God and or His Word. I do listen to you guys and I'm just boggled that many of you have turned from the faith, or just don't have any faith at all. A world without faith is to me very sad.
And I learned a long time ago people would always be capable of letting us down, but God doesn't. Not everybody sees justice in this life, but in the one that is still to come, God promises to make it right. I believe it!

[Genesius]

I think it's sad that so many people on this forum don't believe in God and or His Word. I do listen to you guys and I'm just boggled that many of you have turned from the faith, or just don't have any faith at all. A world without faith is to me very sad. And I learned a long time ago people would always be capapble of letting us down, but God doesn't.

That's strange. . . I find it sad that anyone would abandon reality to live their life in a fairy tale of gods and angels. The world around us is miraculous enough for me. I don't need to believe that Big Daddy in the Sky is looking out for me, ready to hold my hand whever I'm too scared to walk across the street. I learned to walk on my own two feet years ago.

[Genesius]

And just to get back to the OP for a moment, I saw this one the other day. Made me want to bang my head on the steering wheel:

Evolution: "Scientists" making monkeys out of themselves.

[kurious_kathy]

That's strange. . . I find it sad that anyone would abandon reality to live their life in a fairy tale of gods and angels. The world around us is miraculous enough for me. I don't need to believe that Big Daddy in the Sky is looking out for me, ready to hold my hand whever I'm too scared to walk across the street. I learned to walk on my own two feet years ago.
I have two cars with bumper stickers on them. People ask me if my kids put them on there and I tell them no I'm the one who loves stickers.

One of my more recent picks I like is, "Don't Need A Savior? Uh-hun, OK, Right, Whatever...
Rom:3:23 & Heb 1:3"

[Genesius]

I want to get one that says "Atheism cures religious terrorism"

[Genesius]

Or maybe "Christian Family Values - Luke 14:26"

For those playing along at home, that verse reads : "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

[Cheesejoff]

Or maybe "Christian Family Values - Luke 14:26"

For those playing along at home, that verse reads : "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

You do realise that's talking about Disciples, not Christians, right? :)

I much prefer: "There were two women, the daughters of one mother; and they played the harlot in Egypt. They played the harlot in their youth; there their breasts were pressed, and there their virgin bosom was handled.... she lusted after her lovers... and she bestowed her harlotries on them, all of whom were the choicest men of Assyria.... for in her youth men had lain with her, and they handled her virgin bosom and poured out their lust on her.... And she lusted after their paramours, whose flesh is like the flesh of donkeys and whose issue is like the issue of horses."

Ezekiel 23:1-20

Although I doubt it would fit on a bumper sticker.

[Wheezebucket]

I ordered one of those "Jesus saves...and only takes half damage" stickers. Thank you, sir, for brightening up my day. And thank you, Kathy, for being a looney toon. It's fun to watch the crazies spew their garbage sometimes, especially on a forum where I don't gots ta smell it.

[DJ Hexadecibel]

DR.Adequate, we all go through times of testing while we are alive in this world. God cares about our faith being real so I guess that's why He tests us to prove our faith is genuine.

I felt for many years God was not with me, but I was wrong. It's because I fell away from church and abiding in Him that I got pretty beat up out there. Abiding in Christ means to abide in His Word .I'll never go back to playing with fire. God's Word is true. It's our sin that seperates us from God. Jesus reconciles us with God and he also give us the strength to turn away from our sin. Are we perfect no, but He is faithful to forgive us anyway if we ask.

I think it's sad that so many people on this forum don't believe in God and or His Word. I do listen to you guys and I'm just boggled that many of you have turned from the faith, or just don't have any faith at all. A world without faith is to me very sad.
And I learned a long time ago people would always be capable of letting us down, but God doesn't. Not everybody sees justice in this life, but in the one that is still to come, God promises to make it right. I believe it!

God's testing you? What, is that why he hid all those dinosaur fossils? "God put those here to test our faith! . . .:eye-poppi I think God put you here to test my faith, dude. . .I think I figured this out. That's...that's what this guy said, does that bother anyone here the idea that GOD. . .MIGHT BE F***ING WITH OUR HEADS? Anyone sleeping restfully at night that thought creepin' around in there; God's runnin' around, burying fossils, 'Ho ho ha ha heheh. . .we'll see who believes in Me NOW! Ha ha, I'm a prankster God. . .I am KILLING me, ho ho ho.' You die, you go to St. Peter, 'Did you believe in dinosaurs?'
'Well, yeah, there's fossils everywhere...CRASH! AAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!'
'What are you, an idiot? God was F***ING with you! Giant flying lizards, you moron! That's one of God's EASIEST jokes!'
'It seemed so plausible. . .aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!'

We are a ridiculous race, have you ever seen a tiger clown? A French poodle mime? Wait, that WOULD be funny! Therein lies my point. The moment an idea, custom, act, or image becomes amusing, it loses its hold over those ensared within it. Oh, I disagree. A world without faith? Seems reasonable to me. . .and perhaps more people would take themselves LESS seriously. Ah me. . .I think I'll come back as a platypus. . .if those chaps were "created" I'd love to know that the Designer was smoking at the time. . .and if he'd be willing to part with a nickel or two.:p

Edit: Forgive me for leaving out proper credit. That gem was the "Reverend" Bill Hicks's bit on Dinosaurs in the Bible. Sorry for the mix-up! :)

[EnanMyHero]

DR.Adequate, we all go through times of testing while we are alive in this world. God cares about our faith being real so I guess that's why He tests us to prove our faith is genuine.
(snip)
And I learned a long time ago people would always be capable of letting us down, but God doesn't. Not everybody sees justice in this life, but in the one that is still to come, God promises to make it right. I believe it!

So when my two year old got sick and died that was god testing my faith? Or was it the faith of my family and friends? You say that God promises to make it right... so my son's death was right? I kind of think that's a bunch of horse sh*t myself. I mean my family and friends prayed long and hard, most of them to God and hey what do ya know, he let them down. I'm sure most have read the thread by Roadtoad (I'd post the link but I can't yet :mad: ) if you haven't then ya should. Good stuff there and it's all about my son and the crap some of you fundies have said like the reason my son got sick was to punish his grandmother for not going to church enough. WTF is that? To punish her he strikes down an innocent? Makes me glad I'm agnostic.

Oh to kinda go with the thread here's my thoughts on bumber stickers:
"He who believeth in me shall always be an eternal sucker"
"God: The other other other white meat!"
"Intelligent Design: Making life easier for the mindless sheep"

Ok Ok they suck... leave me alone I'm tired! >_<

[bluess]

So when my two year old got sick and died that was god testing my faith? Or was it the faith of my family and friends? You say that God promises to make it right... so my son's death was right? I kind of think that's a bunch of horse sh*t myself. I mean my family and friends prayed long and hard, most of them to God and hey what do ya know, he let them down. I'm sure most have read the thread by Roadtoad (I'd post the link but I can't yet :mad: ) if you haven't then ya should. Good stuff there and it's all about my son and the crap some of you fundies have said like the reason my son got sick was to punish his grandmother for not going to church enough. WTF is that? To punish her he strikes down an innocent? Makes me glad I'm agnostic.

Oh to kinda go with the thread here's my thoughts on bumber stickers:
"He who believeth in me shall always be an eternal sucker"
"God: The other other other white meat!"
"Intelligent Design: Making life easier for the mindless sheep"

Ok Ok they suck... leave me alone I'm tired! >_<

Well, "God: The other other other white meat!" made me giggle.

Don't take kathy to seriously, bud. And don't expect her to respond in any rational fashion to your history. She's worked up her fantasy muscles by statements about Fowlsounds cancer history, I'm pretty sure that what you and your family and your darling son endured would not require much effort on her part to blow off.

[jimlintott]

I have one:

My other god isn't real either.

[scimystic]

'Ello all! 'Nother random incident that occured yesterday. I was driving to my friend's place when I saw a Cherokee with the bumper sticker:

EVOLUTION IS A LIE!

:jaw-dropp

Ugh...I so wanted to follow them and give them a th. . .er, enlighten them to the scientific research saying otherwise. I'd reassure them that it was no conspiracy, and that should we find any evidence of a creator, that I'd be sure to let them know. Of course, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but why so many people choose to live in ignorance. . .just boggles my mind.



DJ,

The scientific research would have been as uncompelling to them as it observably is to Dubya and Co. Their faculty of reason is badly damaged, and is confined to operation in very limited areas. This is because 'something else' got to them first. As children they were slipped, by their parents and teachers, the illusion of possession of a qualitatively superior kind of knowledge. Of a kind that is different and better than other knowledge, in being representative of the actual state of reality. They were given, as examples of this special kind of knowledge, all sorts of absurd proposals. Long before they were seven (the age at which development of full/mature reason typically starts in human beings) they had accepted a primarily irrational model of reality as the thing itself. Their faculty of reason was required to develop from this basis. They can therefore no more reason with you then a paraplegic can go for a walk with you. You will find it more effective to attack the underlying problem (the disease that crippled them) then the cripples themselves.

[kurious_kathy]

So when my two year old got sick and died that was god testing my faith? Or was it the faith of my family and friends? You say that God promises to make it right... so my son's death was right? I kind of think that's a bunch of horse sh*t myself. I mean my family and friends prayed long and hard, most of them to God and hey what do ya know, he let them down. I'm sure most have read the thread by Roadtoad (I'd post the link but I can't yet :mad: ) if you haven't then ya should. Good stuff there and it's all about my son and the crap some of you fundies have said like the reason my son got sick was to punish his grandmother for not going to church enough. WTF is that? To punish her he strikes down an innocent? Makes me glad I'm agnostic.

EMH, I'm sorry about your loss. I could only try to encourage you by telling you he's in a better place now, with Jesus, and you can see him again.

We don't always know why God allows some of these painful things in our lives, but I will pray that God will somehow comfort you and give you the peace you need. Have you joined any greif share groups or anything?

[bluess]

Enan, I'm sorry about your loss. I could only try to encourage you by telling you he's in a better place now, with Jesus, and you can see him again.

We don't always know why God allows some of these painful things in our lives, but I will pray that God will somehow comfort you and give you the peace you need.

Didn't bother linking out to the thread, did you?

Enan died. EnanMyHero is his dad.

And actually, according to your theology, they WON'T be together again because EnanMyHero is rejecting your notion of god.

Could you at least keep consistent with your own beliefs?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Enan, I'm sorry about your loss. I could only try to encourage you by telling you he's in a better place now, with Jesus, and you can see him again.

We don't always know why God allows some of these painful things in our lives, but I will pray that God will somehow comfort you and give you the peace you need.

And that is why religion is a crutch for so many people. You don't have to face, and deal with the negative; it's always "God's plan", or "God will help", or "it'll be better after you're dead". Hovind railed on Shermer during their debate that evolution was "born of death"; well guess what, Christianity ends in death. Life is just a test, a temporary burden until you can be "with God". Telling EnanMyHero, it'll be better after death, especially considering EnanMyHero appears to not be Christian, is disrespectful to EnanMyHero and highlights the arrogance that is inherent in the Christian dogma.

ETA: because getting gerands correct whilst ranting is _hard_

[kurious_kathy]

Didn't bother linking out to the thread, did you?

Enan died. EnanMyHero is his dad.

And actually, according to your theology, they WON'T be together again because EnanMyHero is rejecting your notion of god.

Could you at least keep consistent with your own beliefs?
Sorry, I haven't been on JREF very much lately. My memory isn't as good as it use to be. I guess I'm getting old, oh well. And no I don't have alzheimers, at least not yet.

And even if he doesn't share my faith in God, there is one thing we all should understand, LOVE. I just happen to believe it all comes from Him.

[Tony]

I saw an t-shirt design I am ordering and personally think it deserves to be a bumper sticker. "God doesn't believe in atheists" I think it says something!

Are you in the habit of wearing anti-christian clothing?

[HerNibs]

Sorry, I haven't been on JREF very much lately. My memory isn't as good as it use to be. I guess I'm getting old, oh well. And no I don't have alzheimers, at least not yet.

And even if he doesn't share my faith in God, there is one thing we all should understand, LOVE. I just happen to believe it all comes from Him.


I understand love just fine. Faith in god, now that I don't understand. Don't need god for love.

[Gargoyle]

Bumper-sticker:

IF GOD IS A FATHER, I´LL CALL CPS

(I surely would if I could!! The Ultimate Irresponsible Parenting!)

[Gargoyle]

Bumper-sticker:

IF GOD IS FATHER, I´LL CALL CPS


... might be better?

[kurious_kathy]

Are you in the habit of wearing anti-christian clothing?
No I just like some sayings on bumper stickers and t-shirts. I have a pro-world catalog which is full of all kinds of iron-ons. I saw another I thought was funny, "My Ancestor Was Not A Monkey" that would probably make a great bumper sticker too!

[Genesius]

A few beauts I found on www.northernsun.com :

"It's easier to be born again than to grow up."

"I found God. Now it's my turn to hide."

"Fundamentalism stops a thinking mind."

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." -Gandhi

and, of course

"Last time we mixed politics and religion people got burned at the stake."

[kurious_kathy]

"Last time we mixed politics and religion people got burned at the stake."
And that was a big mistake in my opinion. I recently watched a documentation film about Joan of Arc which was done in black and white. It was done well, but I got more upset with the Catholic church for burning her at the stake. I'm not saying what she did was right at all, but those guys played judge and jury and I got really concerned about what God may do to them on Judgement Day. I think they could have just arrested her for murder and just let her stay in jail. Why did they burn so many at the stake? To me the thought is completely vulgar! The mid-evil times were certainly dark ages, but I question these days as well.

[Freethinker]

mid-evil times

:dl:

[Meffy]

Why did they burn so many at the stake? To me the thought is completely vulgar!
To maintain power and help grease the money chutes, and no doubt many other more subtle and wicked reasons I couldn't fathom.

By "vulgar" do you mean "obscene?" They're not interchangable. Saying these executions were "completely vulgar" sounds as if you're saying they're equivalent to cheap draperies or a tacky over-the-sofa painting by Thomas Kinkade.

The mid-evil times were certainly dark ages, but I question these days as well.
Medieval. Not mid-evil, though I must admit that's an apropos malapropism.

Though I will readily agree that certain similarities between the medieval times and present day are causing a lot of problems in the world, or at least not helping, I think we'd disagree on just which similarities.

[kurious_kathy]

:dl:
So I'm not a great speller, so what. At least I try to get my thoughts out there even if my spelling and punctuation is off at times. I'm not here to try to get a good grade in class you guys.

If my surgery goes well next year I may sign up for a bone head English class which should help me much. If you guys will try to be a little nicer about some of the mis-spelled words, I would appreciate it.

[Meffy]

If you don't know, ask. I disagree very strongly with your position and your way of doing things, but will gladly share what little I do know if asked politely. One of the things I do know a bit about is language, English especially.

[strathmeyer]

I think it's sad that so many people on this forum don't believe in God and or His Word. I do listen to you guys and I'm just boggled that many of you have turned from the faith, or just don't have any faith at all. A world without faith is to me very sad.

How is it sad? Which Gods should we believe in? Who knows the word of God? How can we tell the real word of God from the fake word of God? What is a world without faith like? How is it different from a world with faith? What specifically about a world without faith makes you sad?

What kind of person never answers simple questions and yet expects people to believe everything they say? Either a fraud or a lunatic.

[rocketdodger]

So I'm not a great speller, so what. At least I try to get my thoughts out there even if my spelling and punctuation is off at times. I'm not here to try to get a good grade in class you guys.

If my surgery goes well next year I may sign up for a bone head English class which should help me much. If you guys will try to be a little nicer about some of the mis-spelled words, I would appreciate it.

Kathy, even though I think you are generally insane, I agree with you here. Many on these forums have a tendancy to attack people and not the arguments.

In those cases, your best response is to simply quote their retort and prompt them to address the argument rather than make fun of your spelling. That will shut them up if they are decent people who want to learn, and if not, then who cares about them anyway, right?

While I would hope that your arguments get blown out of the water, because they are absurdly retarded, I certainly would not wish any harm on you in a psychological way. Lots of people here either haven't matured enough or are just plain mean, and don't think the same way I do. You will just have to tough it out.

On the whole, however, this forum has MUCH less of this kind of thing than any other I have ever seen.

[Shrike]

Anything really.
What I wanted to say would probably get me banned.
I'll stick to this:
:hb:

[Freethinker]

So I'm not a great speller, so what. At least I try to get my thoughts out there even if my spelling and punctuation is off at times. I'm not here to try to get a good grade in class you guys.


Kathy, I apologize if you think I was laughing at your spelling. The whole point isn't the spelling. The point is how you try to convince us that you know what you are talking about, yet you misspell a word like medieval. Had you done any of this "research" you claim, you surely would have come across the correct spelling. Maybe you didn't remember the correct one, but you would surely have known it wasn't mid-evil. Mid-evil implies that you think the word has something to do with evil. That tells me you never even read the word, just heard others talking about it. I wouldn't have commented on mideval or medeval, as they would indicate at least some familiarity with the printed word.
Be honest with yourself: When did the medieval period begin? When were the dark-ages and when did they end? What period followed the medieval period? What period preceded it?

Here are some general answers:
The medieval period began around the 5th century or at the end of the Western Roman Empire and ended around 1517. The Dark-Ages were from about 476 to 1000. The Modern Times or Early Modern Times follow the medieval period. Antiquity or Classical Antiquity preceded it. (Greeks and Romans)

I post this not to ridicule you, but to point out to you how ignorant of both church history and human history you are. You continually argue as if you have full knowledge of the world and its history, and we should listen to you in all matters. Your misspelling of medieval is evidence of your lack of knowledge about history. This complete factual misunderstanding is your weakness, not your spelling. Please don't confuse ignorance with stupidity and think I'm calling you stupid. Ignorance has a cure: education.
Here's some tips: Use a spellchecker like iespell which is a browser add-in http://www.iespell.com/ Read. It will help your spelling and your general knowledge. Learn to say I don't know or read about a subject before expounding on it. The fact of the matter is you know less about the religion you espouse than most of the people with whom you debate here. You should not expect to teach people who know more than you, you should expect to learn from them. What? Learn from people you disagree with!!!!!! It can happen, and it doesn't require one of you to change your opinion. Only when you fully understand the opposing point of view can you fully understand your own.

[bluess]

Kathy, I apologize if you think I was laughing at your spelling. The whole point isn't the spelling. The point is how you try to convince us that you know what you are talking about, yet you misspell a word like medieval. Had you done any of this "research" you claim, you surely would have come across the correct spelling. Maybe you didn't remember the correct one, but you would surely have known it wasn't mid-evil. Mid-evil implies that you think the word has something to do with evil. That tells me you never even read the word, just heard others talking about it. I wouldn't have commented on mideval or medeval, as they would indicate at least some familiarity with the printed word.
Be honest with yourself: When did the medieval period begin? When were the dark-ages and when did they end? What period followed the medieval period? What period preceded it?

Here are some general answers:
The medieval period began around the 5th century or at the end of the Western Roman Empire and ended around 1517. The Dark-Ages were from about 476 to 1000. The Modern Times or Early Modern Times follow the medieval period. Antiquity or Classical Antiquity preceded it. (Greeks and Romans)

I post this not to ridicule you, but to point out to you how ignorant of both church history and human history you are. You continually argue as if you have full knowledge of the world and its history, and we should listen to you in all matters. Your misspelling of medieval is evidence of your lack of knowledge about history. This complete factual misunderstanding is your weakness, not your spelling. Please don't confuse ignorance with stupidity and think I'm calling you stupid. Ignorance has a cure: education.
Here's some tips: Use a spellchecker like iespell which is a browser add-in http://www.iespell.com/ Read. It will help your spelling and your general knowledge. Learn to say I don't know or read about a subject before expounding on it. The fact of the matter is you know less about the religion you espouse than most of the people with whom you debate here. You should not expect to teach people who know more than you, you should expect to learn from them. What? Learn from people you disagree with!!!!!! It can happen, and it doesn't require one of you to change your opinion. Only when you fully understand the opposing point of view can you fully understand your own.

Beautiful post, Freethinker. I bow to your obviously superior niceness.

[EnanMyHero]

Sorry, I haven't been on JREF very much lately. My memory isn't as good as it use to be. I guess I'm getting old, oh well. And no I don't have alzheimers, at least not yet.

And even if he doesn't share my faith in God, there is one thing we all should understand, LOVE. I just happen to believe it all comes from Him.

Love has nothing to do with God imo. Love comes from being around certain people (even if you aren't actually around them, you think bout them or talk to them and what-not). Mainly friends and family. Doesn't require a higher power to have, recieve or understand.

And as regard to my faith, my faith is based off the love of my family and friends. Without them I would have probably killed someone out of a random surge of anger at my son having to suffer so. Enan is a centerpoint of my faith, almost a god if you will, that I use to keep my sanity. Enan was so strong and smiled every day and I use the strength that he had to keep me going, because if a two year old won't give up then why should I? He fought long and hard and beat his fungal infection which no one had done before, and we all think if he hadn't been on the dozen plus (not exaggerating here) medications his heart wouldn't have stopped and we'd have him home with us.

Sorry if that sounds wierd, but in a semi-hurry to get to work so I'm not late! Will try to post better next time!:eye-poppi

[Freethinker]

Beautiful post, Freethinker. I bow to your obviously superior niceness.

Niceness? I must be getting soft in my old age!

[bluess]

Niceness? I must be getting soft in my old age!


Hmmm ... ok, I bow to your superior razor sharp retorts, cunningly disguised as niceness.

[Roadtoad]

EMH, I'm sorry about your loss. I could only try to encourage you by telling you he's in a better place now, with Jesus, and you can see him again.

We don't always know why God allows some of these painful things in our lives, but I will pray that God will somehow comfort you and give you the peace you need. Have you joined any greif share groups or anything?

Good God. Just can't resist another chance to preach, can we?

Sorry, Kathy, but Enan WAS in a better place. In Beth and Alan's arms. That's where that child belonged. It is where he ought to be right now.

I'm out for a few zees. I have to. What I want to say right now would not only get me banned, but I'd probably scorch out the server.

Do me a favor: Don't use my friends for your purposes. Ever.

[EnanMyHero]

Good God. Just can't resist another chance to preach, can we?

Sorry, Kathy, but Enan WAS in a better place. In Beth and Alan's arms. That's where that child belonged. It is where he ought to be right now.

I'm out for a few zees. I have to. What I want to say right now would not only get me banned, but I'd probably scorch out the server.

Do me a favor: Don't use my friends for your purposes. Ever.


Bud don't think she was "using" us for her purposes, I made the comment and she had to preach. From reading her posts I've come to expect that, tho I totally agree with you Enan was in a better place in our arms. But if she was using us for her purposes than you do what you gotta do my friend. Also thanks for making Enan's name google-able so I could find this very interesting place.

Had a new bumber sticker but I forgot it! :(

[KingMerv00]

I ordered one of those "Jesus saves...and only takes half damage" stickers. Thank you, sir, for brightening up my day.

Oh come on...Jesus has to have evasion. Surely he takes no damage at all.

Oh wait, maybe is was a Fort or Will save?

[empeake]

Here's a proposal:

Only the unevolved don't believe in evolution.

[Genesius]

One I've got on my car: "If they outlaw teaching evolution, only outlaws will evolve!"

[Roadtoad]

I guess that makes me one dirty old outlaw, doesn't it?

[Genesius]

I guess that makes me one dirty old outlaw, doesn't it?

You could try taking a bath once in a while. . .

:D

[Roadtoad]

Tried that once. Really screwed up my chakras... :p

[kurious_kathy]

Had a new bumber sticker but I forgot it! :(
Here's one that I got last March at a Womans Retreat....
"Don't Drive Faster Than Your Guardian Angel Can Fly!"

[Palimpsest]

So how fast do guardian angels fly? It must be less than, say 120kph for that bumper sticker to make sense.

And what about flying? If the guardian angel can't keep up with a fast car, a plane would be totall out of the question. It might take it days to catch up to you after you get to your destination... by which time you might be ready to come home. Yet more delays.

But you know what I'd do if I were a guardian angel and I knew my human planned to drive too fast? I'd just hitch a ride.

[Dr Adequate]

"Don't Drive Faster Than Your Guardian Angel Can Fly!" This is pointless advice without one crucial fact.

What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen guardian angel?

How about if it was carrying a coconut?

[Dr Adequate]

So how fast do guardian angels fly? Heh ... there's a funny echo in here.

[Roadtoad]

The one I DESPERATELY want:

Yes, this is my truck.
No, I won't help you move.

[Palimpsest]

What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen guardian angel?


What do you mean, Cherubim or Seraphim?

[EnanMyHero]

Here's one that I got last March at a Womans Retreat....
"Don't Drive Faster Than Your Guardian Angel Can Fly!"

That doesn't make any sense to me. How can you possibly go faster than your guardian angel? If you could it wouldn't be a very good guardian and should probably be fired.

What do you mean, Cherubim or Seraphim

Peanutbutter...

[Freethinker]

Hmmm ... ok, I bow to your superior razor sharp retorts, cunningly disguised as niceness.

Although Kathy totally ignored it when she was here.....Not surprising.

[tom m.]

If it makes you feel better, I saw several bumperstickers in nearby Chapel Hill that read:

"Christians - can't live with them, can't throw them to the lions anymore..."

I'm still trying to find one for my car.

Wiccans - you cant just burn them at the stake anymore! :D

[Rissask]

Here's a proposal:

Only the unevolved don't believe in evolution.

:D I love this one, and also 'Intelligent Design is Neither'.

I cannot believe there is a billboard in Kansas that says 'Evolution is a fairy tale for grownups.' No way! Talk about supreme irony. We have our share of fundies and literal creationists in this province, but I can't imagine a billboard like that being erected here. That is shameful.:eek:

I am not a fan of bumper stickers but I do have a Darwin fish plate on my trunk. I don't think anyone around here really 'gets it' though...the other day I was parked next to a van with a jesus fish on it and I had to smirk a bit when I noticed that.

[EnanMyHero]

Wiccans - you cant just burn them at the stake anymore! :D

Found that one a little funny... but that's just the sadistic bastard in me :D

here's another horrible one from me

Got Inquisition?

[Roadtoad]

Geez, and I was worrying whether or not you'd fit in around here...!

[EnanMyHero]

Geez, and I was worrying whether or not you'd fit in around here...!

Who says I fit in? :jaw-dropp hehe :D

[Dr Adequate]

Against Evolution?

Then Go Climb A Tree.

[Dr Adequate]

What do you mean, Cherubim or Seraphim? I don't kn ... hey, look, I'm being raptured!

[DJ Hexadecibel]

Oh come on...Jesus has to have evasion. Surely he takes no damage at all.

Oh wait, maybe is was a Fort or Will save?

Well, as DM, I would count a Will save for Jesus as null, meaning any Will attacks nullified, 'cause the son of God should have an Indominitable feat. Fort saves would be treated as half. Well, he IS human, after all, and subject to such physical frailties. Then again, that's what my call would be.

[Genesius]

OK, so lots of folks have neat freethought bumper stickers.

But how many of you have a Buddy Christtm on your dashboard?

It's fun to make fundies' heads 'splode when they try to reconcile my "Godless American" bumpersticker with Jebus standing there giving them the thumbs up.

ETA: for those of you not familiar with Buddy Christ or the films of Kevin Smith, http://jayandsilentbob.com/budchrisdass1.html

[Meffy]

OK, so lots of folks have neat freethought bumper stickers.

I used to see an anti-freethought bumper sticker far too often... not so much lately:

"God said it, I believe it, that SETTLES it!"

*9_9* My hypothesis is that the caption's smugness seeped through the vinyl to the adhesive, weakening it and causing the stickers to fall off.

But how many of you have a Buddy Christtm on your dashboard?

So THAT'S what that figure is! I've seen it in a meme-ish pic captioned something along the lines of "Jesus loves you but I think you're a jerk."

[Genesius]

So THAT'S what that figure is! I've seen it in a meme-ish pic captioned something along the lines of "Jesus loves you but I think you're a jerk."

I still want Kev to sell the gold Mooby statuette from the boardroom scene. I'd put it on my dashboard to show everyone that Jebus and The Golden Calf can learn to play nicely together.

:D

[Meffy]

Haven't seen the movie, don't get the refs. :-) I'm just pleased to know the origin of a picture that comes up in lots of threads on more graphics-happy forums.

Just sighted on a music forum I frequent, a sig that would make a great bumper sticker if you lived or worked in a high-tech area.

God is REAL unless declared INTEGER

I love it. =^_^=

[Genesius]

Haven't seen the movie, don't get the refs. :-) I'm just pleased to know the origin of a picture that comes up in lots of threads on more graphics-happy forums.



You haven't seen "Dogma"? Good grief, go rent it NOW! Ben Affleck, Matt Damon, Chris Rock, Alan Rickman, Alanis Morrissette as God, and Salma Hayek dancing in a bikini! What more could anyone want?

Oh yeah, and a big rubber poop-monster.

[EnanMyHero]

Nothin says lovin' like a big rubber poop monster-

[Meffy]

Ah, but I don't rent videos or get optional cable channels. No money for such. Besides, I'm more likely to watch Bogart and Bacall than more current performers. I'll take y'all's words that it's grand... stuff. :-}

[Leif Roar]

"My dogma can beat up your deity."

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

"My dogma can beat up your deity."

"My karma ran over your dogma."

[Ossai]

KingMerv00
Originally Posted by Wheezebucket:
I ordered one of those "Jesus saves...and only takes half damage" stickers. Thank you, sir, for brightening up my day.
Oh come on...Jesus has to have evasion. Surely he takes no damage at all.
Oh wait, maybe is was a Fort or Will save? Just goes to show you Jesus should have been a monk.

DJ Hexadecibel
Well, as DM, I would count a Will save for Jesus as null, meaning any Will attacks nullified, 'cause the son of God should have an Indominitable feat. He has to be vulnerable to will attacks otherwise the whole tempting thing would be meaningless.

Ossai

[Aardvark]

What about

' Jesus saves fallen women, will he save a couple for me?'

Aadvark gets his head down and runs like hell to the safety of his hollow

[This Guy]

OK, not a religious themed one, but I got a chuckle outa -

"My child was a Model Prisoner at the County Jail"

Around the bumper sticker were several of those stick on bullet holes.

[tomgv15]

http://jesusisaliberal.org
Jesus is a Liberal - they sell t's and stickers

Not topic related, but I did laugh - sticker saying "My Rat Terrier is Smarter than Your Honors Student"

[supercorgi]

http://jesusisaliberal.org
Jesus is a Liberal - they sell t's and stickers

Not topic related, but I did laugh - sticker saying "My Rat Terrier is Smarter than Your Honors Student"
Just FYI, you can get that bumper sticker for almost any breed of dog. Take a look on eBay under your favorite dog breed.

[grunion]

http://www.stickergiant.com/Merchant2/imgs/250/zxs506.gif

[Dunstan]

Can't believe nobody's mentioned the hockey version:

"Jesus Saves ... But [insert hockey player] scores on the rebound!"

And I know I'm late to the party, but I can't resist...

we've been born into this fallen world full of it!

Some of us are more full of it than others.

Receiving Jesus as your Lord and Saviour really wakes us up.

I'm sticking to coffee, thanks.

[Polaris]

'Ello all! 'Nother random incident that occured yesterday. I was driving to my friend's place when I saw a Cherokee with the bumper sticker:

EVOLUTION IS A LIE!

:jaw-dropp

Ugh...I so wanted to follow them and give them a th. . .er, enlighten them to the scientific research saying otherwise. I'd reassure them that it was no conspiracy, and that should we find any evidence of a creator, that I'd be sure to let them know. Of course, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but why so many people choose to live in ignorance. . .just boggles my mind.

"Do y'all notice how Creationists look really. . .unevolved? Eyes real close together; big, furry hands and feet. All 'believe God created me in one day.' Yeah, it LOOKS like he rushed it."
-Bill Hicks

Almost as bad as the "Real Men Pray" bumper sticker I saw on a contractor's truck at work once.

[Roadtoad]

I'm sticking to coffee, thanks.

It's not coffee unless it crawls out of the pot and attacks your leg. I'm a trucker. I know.

[EnanMyHero]

It's not coffee unless it crawls out of the pot and attacks your leg. I'm a trucker. I know.

Bah screw coffe, I'll stick with 3 vivren a redbull (or any other energy drink just being generic) and two mountain dews! Wakes ya up and you have to pee!

[Roadtoad]

*Sigh* That's the problem with you kids. No appreciation for tradition.

[grayman]

Roadtoad, you'd like the coffee I brew. Makes my friends unable to blink. :eye-poppi

[grayman]

Here's a site for politically incorrect t-shirts:www tshirthell.com

Sorry, forum wouldn't let me add the link.

[Roadtoad]

Roadtoad, you'd like the coffee I brew. Makes my friends unable to blink. :eye-poppi

Nah. Still not stong enough.

When it starts to make your teeth wiggle, let me know. Either that, or let Fowlsound know. It might add some zing to his spine.

[EnanMyHero]

*Sigh* That's the problem with you kids. No appreciation for tradition.


Not a matter of tradition not being followed... just can't stand the taste! Cept some european coffees with a tone of warm milk... in spain had 12 cups of that... was twitching all day!

[HerNibs]

Nice young lady who works with my husband has this one (I'm not sure it is exact but the message is great!)

Get a taste of religion, lick a wiccan

[EnanMyHero]

Nice young lady who works with my husband has this one (I'm not sure it is exact but the message is great!)

Get a taste of religion, lick a wiccan


Only if she's hot...

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Nice young lady who works with my husband has this one (I'm not sure it is exact but the message is great!)

Get a taste of religion, lick a wiccan

Neopagans are (generally) a good group. A bit credulous, but more than made up for in their non-evangelicalismness and sense of humor "Something Wiccan This Way Comes", "My Other Car is a Broom" etc

[Dunstan]

non-evangelicalismness

Now there's a perfectly cromulent word.

[Meffy]

Minnesota, according to Keillor: "Oh yah, her coffee's thick enough ta float a crowbar."

[Genesius]

Neopagans are (generally) a good group. A bit credulous, but more than made up for in their non-evangelicalismness and sense of humor "Something Wiccan This Way Comes", "My Other Car is a Broom" etc

Not a bumper sticker, but how about "Parking for witches only: All others will be toad!"

[princesspoppy]

:eye-poppi :jaw-dropp

[Legalduck]

Originally Posted by Wheezebucket:
I ordered one of those "Jesus saves...and only takes half damage" stickers. Thank you, sir, for brightening up my day.

Oh come on...Jesus has to have evasion. Surely he takes no damage at all.
Oh wait, maybe is was a Fort or Will save?

Maybe JC has the mettle class ability(hexblade or pious templar)?

Here's my contribution to a bumper sticker.

"If you threaten me with God's punishment, know that I'll have the Toothfairy kick your ass!"

EDIT: for spelling

[EnanMyHero]

Here's my contribution to a bumper sticker.

"If you threaten me with God's punishment, know that I'll have the Toothfairy kick your ass!"

That's funny too! :D

[Meffy]

One I always wanted to see but I'm too cute and harmless and friendly to suggest such a thing.

Keep your Bible out of my panties!

[Roadtoad]

Not a bumper sticker, but how about "Parking for witches only: All others will be toad!"

Too late.

[kurious_kathy]

This is pointless advice without one crucial fact.

What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen guardian angel?
I don't know how fast an angel might be able to fly, but I do think they could easily pace themselves to stay close enough to protect us when needed.

I always liked this scripture in Hebrews 13:2... Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.

I listen to a lot of Christian Rock now and The Newsboys came out with a really great song called "Entertaining Angels" that I love. I wonder if they have a bumper sticker that says that?

[Roadtoad]

I hear the wind blowing through a dark, hollow space, and it goes...

"Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!"

[BPScooter]

I would be willing to put on my car trunk a raised graphic, not just a sticker, in the shape of an old-time monitor, or TV set, with the word TURING done in it, the same way the fish words go for the Jesus/fish one, or the fish-with-feet one.

[elliotfc]

I have a great bumper sticker idea, but I'm not going to share it.

[Palimpsest]

I always liked this scripture in Hebrews 13:2... Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.


Yeah, I once read a Greek myth with the same moral. Briefly, it goes like this:

Zeus and Hermes (I think) decided to visit the mortal world one day, to see how things were getting on. Disguising themselves as wandering beggars, they came to this little town and tried to beg for food, but every door was shut in their face. All except one: a poor elderly couple welcomed them into their modest home and generously shared what food they had. Zeus rewarded the couple by turning their house into a magnificent palace, and punished the miserly town by (I think) flooding it. The elderly couple lived for many more years in luxury and when they died (together), they turned into two entertwined trees, so they could still be together for eternity.

Seems to me the moral's the same. Be kind to strangers, cos they may be superpowerful divine beings who'll reward you. It speaks to selfishness, not altruism, just like those ads telling you to be nice to people who play the Lotto 6/49.

And the moral of this post is: there ain't nothing original in your scripture, and Christianity doesn't have a monopoly on stories telling you to be nice to other people.

[EnanMyHero]

And the moral of this post is: there ain't nothing original in your scripture, and Christianity doesn't have a monopoly on stories telling you to be nice to other people.

I heartily agree!

[elliotfc]

And the moral of this post is: there ain't nothing original in your scripture, and Christianity doesn't have a monopoly on stories telling you to be nice to other people.

How many God-man figures were crucified, besides Jesus?

I think the idea that God is a God of progress in original to Judaism/Christianity. Also, Christianity is original in that it was an equalizing concept. God's Love is the source of God's power, that too.

-Elliot

[Lothian]

How many God-man figures were crucified, besides Jesus?
-ElliotIgnoring the specifics and focusing on the general message. How may gods made the ultimate sacrifice to save mankind. ?


Shiva (Rudra) sacrificed himself by drinking poison to save the world.

Dinoysus was the son of Zeus and a mortal woman who died for mankind,

The idea of a dying God whose sacrifice results in eternal life for followers is also found in Roman mystery religions. (http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Projects/Reln91/Blood/sacrificemainpage.htm)

Other Gods who died to be reborn include Osiris, Adonis, Mithras, Inanna and Persephone.

but [life of Brian]Apart from them, What other gods was the Jesus story stolen from?[/life of brian]

[Palimpsest]

How many God-man figures were crucified, besides Jesus?


How many Talking Lions were killed by a evil White Witch on an ancient rune-covered stone table, besides Aslan? Wow, I guess The Lion, The Witch And The Wardrobe is a wonderfully original story, and not at all a blatant Xian allegory full of simplistic moralism.

I think the idea that God is a God of progress in original to Judaism/Christianity. Also, Christianity is original in that it was an equalizing concept.


Progress, huh? Equalizing, huh? Please be specific. What does Xianity have to say about scientific inquiry? Human rights? Religious tolerance?

Conversely, what does it have to say about following tradition? about respecting authority? about keeping slaves? About oppressing women, gays, people of other races?

God's Love is the source of God's power, that too.


That's not what I heard.


Stan : "Why would God let Kenny die, Chef? Why? Kenny's my friend. Why can't God take someone else's friend?"

Chef : "Stan, sometimes God takes those closest to us, because it makes him feel better about himself. He is a very vengeful God, Stan. He's all pissed off about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can't get over it, so he doesn't care who he takes. Children, puppies, it don't matter to him, so long as it makes us sad. Do you understand?"

Stan : "But then, why does God give us anything to start with?"

Chef : "Well, look at it this way: if you want to make a baby cry, first you give it a lollipop. Then you take it away. If you never give it a lollipop to begin with, then you would have nothin' to cry about. That's like God, who gives us life and love and help just so that he can tear it all away and make us cry, so he can drink the sweet milk of our tears. You see, it's our tears, Stan, that give God his great power."

[Dr Adequate]

I don't know how fast an angel might be able to fly, but I do think they could easily pace themselves to stay close enough to protect us when needed. In which case the bumper sticker is equivalent to saying that you can drive as fast as you like.

But this is not true. Because people don't have guardian angels.

And you don't behave as though it's true. Because the more sensible part of your brain realizes that there are no magic invisible beings to protect you from the consequences of your own actions.

[EnanMyHero]

"My god is Innorruuk"

[EBU]

From farshores.org, 2 answers to the question of other god-man figures who were crucified, besides Christ: "Acharya states that Buddha also was born of a virgin, he had 12 disciples, he performed miracles, healed the sick, walked on water and fed 500 men from a small basket of cakes. The Buddha was transfigured on a mount, was crucified in a sin-atonement, suffered three days in hell and was resurrected. After this he ascended to heaven, or Nirvana.
The Egyptian god figure Horus was said to have been born of the virgin Isis on December 25. He was born in a cave, his birth was announced by a star in the East, and he was attended by three wise men. He was a child teacher in the temple. He was baptized by Anup the Baptizer (John the Baptist?), he had 12 disciples, he performed miracles, walked on water, and raised a man named El-Azar-us from the dead. Horus also was transfigured on a mount, was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.
In India, the god/man Krishna was born of a virgin, his father was a carpenter, his birth was attended by angels, wise men and shepherds, and they brought presents of gold, frankincense and myrrh. There was a ruler who attempted to destroy the infant by ordering the slaughter of thousands of babies. Krishna worked miracles and wonders, raised the dead, healed lepers, the deaf and the blind. He used parables to teach people about charity and love. He was transfigured in front of his disciples. Some stories say Krishna died on a tree or was crucified between two thieves."

[Roadtoad]

This is a sad display.

Please. For heaven's sake. Recognize that there is but one: THE GREAT TACO IN THE SKY!!!

And ELVIS is his prophet.

[EnanMyHero]

This is a sad display.

Please. For heaven's sake. Recognize that there is but one: THE GREAT TACO IN THE SKY!!!

And ELVIS is his prophet.

You are so wrong! It's totally a Quesadilla! Carne-asada to boot!

[money]

From farshores.org, 2 answers to the question of other god-man figures who were crucified, besides Christ: "Acharya states that Buddha also was born of a virgin, he had 12 disciples, he performed miracles, healed the sick, walked on water and fed 500 men from a small basket of cakes. The Buddha was transfigured on a mount, was crucified in a sin-atonement, suffered three days in hell and was resurrected. After this he ascended to heaven, or Nirvana.
The Egyptian god figure Horus was said to have been born of the virgin Isis on December 25. He was born in a cave, his birth was announced by a star in the East, and he was attended by three wise men. He was a child teacher in the temple. He was baptized by Anup the Baptizer (John the Baptist?), he had 12 disciples, he performed miracles, walked on water, and raised a man named El-Azar-us from the dead. Horus also was transfigured on a mount, was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.
In India, the god/man Krishna was born of a virgin, his father was a carpenter, his birth was attended by angels, wise men and shepherds, and they brought presents of gold, frankincense and myrrh. There was a ruler who attempted to destroy the infant by ordering the slaughter of thousands of babies. Krishna worked miracles and wonders, raised the dead, healed lepers, the deaf and the blind. He used parables to teach people about charity and love. He was transfigured in front of his disciples. Some stories say Krishna died on a tree or was crucified between two thieves."

Is www.farshores.org a spoof site? No way that much woo can be loaded into one site otherwise!:eek:

[elliotfc]

Ignoring the specifics and focusing on the general message. How may gods made the ultimate sacrifice to save mankind. ?


Shiva (Rudra) sacrificed himself by drinking poison to save the world.

Dinoysus was the son of Zeus and a mortal woman who died for mankind,

The idea of a dying God whose sacrifice results in eternal life for followers is also found in Roman mystery religions. (http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Projects/Reln91/Blood/sacrificemainpage.htm)

Other Gods who died to be reborn include Osiris, Adonis, Mithras, Inanna and Persephone.

but [life of Brian]Apart from them, What other gods was the Jesus story stolen from?[/life of brian]

This logic implies that if something is not original, then it was stolen. This means you'll never believe me if I told you I went to Germany, because others have went to Germany before I did.

-Elliot

[elliotfc]

How many Talking Lions were killed by a evil White Witch on an ancient rune-covered stone table, besides Aslan? Wow, I guess The Lion, The Witch And The Wardrobe is a wonderfully original story, and not at all a blatant Xian allegory full of simplistic moralism.

It's on you if you confuse the LW&W and the NT, and how they have been appreciated throughout the totality of each of their histories.

Progress, huh? Equalizing, huh? Please be specific. What does Xianity have to say about scientific inquiry? Human rights? Religious tolerance?

I *was* specific. Re-read my post.

Now, you'd like me to be more specific. I don't know if "Xtianity" has anything to say about scientific inquiry. It also has nothing to say about auto repair. Oh well.

That the theology itself progressed throughout the Bible, from OT to NT, is pretty well accepted across the board.

Equalizing concept? Colossians 3:11.

Conversely, what does it have to say about following tradition? about respecting authority? about keeping slaves? About oppressing women, gays, people of other races?

No doubt you'll use OT verses against me if I respond. I go through these motions with one of y'alls every other month or so. Pass.

Stan : "Why would God let Kenny die, Chef? Why? Kenny's my friend. Why can't God take someone else's friend?"

Chef : "Stan, sometimes God takes those closest to us, because it makes him feel better about himself. He is a very vengeful God, Stan. He's all pissed off about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can't get over it, so he doesn't care who he takes. Children, puppies, it don't matter to him, so long as it makes us sad. Do you understand?"

Stan : "But then, why does God give us anything to start with?"

Chef : "Well, look at it this way: if you want to make a baby cry, first you give it a lollipop. Then you take it away. If you never give it a lollipop to begin with, then you would have nothin' to cry about. That's like God, who gives us life and love and help just so that he can tear it all away and make us cry, so he can drink the sweet milk of our tears. You see, it's our tears, Stan, that give God his great power."[/I]

You got me there. Nice one!

-Elliot

[elliotfc]

From farshores.org, 2 answers to the question of other god-man figures who were crucified, besides Christ: "Acharya states that Buddha also was born of a virgin, he had 12 disciples, he performed miracles, healed the sick, walked on water and fed 500 men from a small basket of cakes. The Buddha was transfigured on a mount, was crucified in a sin-atonement, suffered three days in hell and was resurrected. After this he ascended to heaven, or Nirvana.

Buddha's mother was not a virgin, she was married and barren for twenty years before his birth. He had 5 close disciples, the original sangha (sp?), and all you have to do is read a narrative of the Great Passing.

The Egyptian god figure Horus was said to have been born of the virgin Isis on December 25. He was born in a cave, his birth was announced by a star in the East, and he was attended by three wise men. He was a child teacher in the temple. He was baptized by Anup the Baptizer (John the Baptist?), he had 12 disciples, he performed miracles, walked on water, and raised a man named El-Azar-us from the dead. Horus also was transfigured on a mount, was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.

It's like the Protocols of the Elder of Zion. One website states it, it's copy and pasted for the rest of eternity.

http://tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html

-Elliot

[Dr Adequate]

While you are right about Buddhist and Greek mythology, the people at tektonics are also a buch of dishonest looneys.

[bluess]

How many God-man figures were crucified, besides Jesus?

I think the idea that God is a God of progress in original to Judaism/Christianity. Also, Christianity is original in that it was an equalizing concept. God's Love is the source of God's power, that too.

-Elliot

This is the one point I find silliest in the Christian mythos.

God killed himself because he created a people so bad that they could only be saved by having one person killed..?

Right.

[elliotfc]

While you are right about Buddhist and Greek mythology, the people at tektonics are also a buch of dishonest looneys.

About some things, maybe. Sure, why not. -Elliot

[elliotfc]

This is the one point I find silliest in the Christian mythos.

God killed himself because he created a people so bad that they could only be saved by having one person killed..?

Right.

We are, in our own way, at war with God. God chose, for whatever reasons, to make peace possible by offering his Son. We could have been saved in any number of ways. God chose this way. Having Love killed, and then triumph over death, might be a good way for us to appreciate not only the seriousness of sin and death, but the length to which Love would go to defeat sin and death. To fully submit to its power, but conquer it nonetheless.

-Elliot

[Ossai]

elliotfc
That the theology itself progressed throughout the Bible, from OT to NT, is pretty well accepted across the board. That must explain why there are over 34,000 different Christian sects. They all agree on the same thing. :rolleyes:

Progress, huh? Equalizing, huh? Please be specific. What does Xianity have to say about scientific inquiry? Human rights? Religious tolerance?
I *was* specific. Re-read my post. I did reread your post. There was nothing specific, just assertions.

Conversely, what does it have to say about following tradition? about respecting authority? about keeping slaves? About oppressing women, gays, people of other races?
No doubt you'll use OT verses against me if I respond. I go through these motions with one of y'alls every other month or so. Pass. Sorry, but using only NT verses. Jesus supports slavery. Women are second class citizens. Gays are evil. If someone doesn’t believe the same as you, don’t worry, they’ll be tortured (technically this isn’t specifically other races, just everyone else).

We are, in our own way, at war with God. God chose, for whatever reasons, to make peace possible by offering his Son. We could have been saved in any number of ways. God chose this way. Having Love killed, and then triumph over death, might be a good way for us to appreciate not only the seriousness of sin and death, but the length to which Love would go to defeat sin and death. To fully submit to its power, but conquer it nonetheless. So when is all that supposed to happen?

Ossai

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

This logic implies that if something is not original, then it was stolen. This means you'll never believe me if I told you I went to Germany, because others have went to Germany before I did.

-Elliot

Don't move the goalposts. You asked for How many God-man figures were crucified, besides Jesus? Lothian expaned that to be sacrifice, instead of crucified, and answered you.

[bluess]

We are, in our own way, at war with God. God chose, for whatever reasons, to make peace possible by offering his Son. We could have been saved in any number of ways. God chose this way. Having Love killed, and then triumph over death, might be a good way for us to appreciate not only the seriousness of sin and death, but the length to which Love would go to defeat sin and death. To fully submit to its power, but conquer it nonetheless.

-Elliot

1. Assuming there is a god.
2. Assuming that god is the god of the bible.
3. Assuming that we believe in 'sin'.

If Love dying conquered sin, why does it still exist? If it still exists, why aren't more deaths needed?

And why the heck did an omnipotent being create a creature which would always be at war with it?

[Genesius]

1. Assuming there is a god.
2. Assuming that god is the god of the bible.
3. Assuming that we believe in 'sin'.

If Love dying conquered sin, why does it still exist? If it still exists, why aren't more deaths needed?

And why the heck did an omnipotent being create a creature which would always be at war with it?
Now, now, Mistress, you're trying to reconcile religion and logic again. You know you'll just give yourself a migraine.

<sigh> Wish Freakshow would get back with the fishbowl. Then we could relax you properly. . . ;)

[Palimpsest]

It's on you if you confuse the LW&W and the NT, and how they have been appreciated throughout the totality of each of their histories.

:confused: Guh? Is... that supposed to answer my point?


I *was* specific. Re-read my post.

Now, you'd like me to be more specific. I don't know if "Xtianity" has anything to say about scientific inquiry. It also has nothing to say about auto repair. Oh well.

That the theology itself progressed throughout the Bible, from OT to NT, is pretty well accepted across the board.

You wrote "I think the idea that God is a God of progress in original to Judaism/Christianity."

Ah. So you didn't actually mean that the Judeo-Christian God values progress. You just meant that J-C theology changed over the years. Well, yeah, nobody's arguing that. But how is that unique to Judaism/Christianity? Doesn't every established religion change over time?

Equalizing concept? Colossians 3:11.

No doubt you'll use OT verses against me if I respond. I go through these motions with one of y'alls every other month or so. Pass.


Hey, you brought it up. And as Ossai wrote, I don't need to use a single OT verse. About slaves, we've got Ephesians 6:5, Colossians 3:22, Titus 2:9, and 1 Peter 2:8. You know, for a religion in which "there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free", this NT of yours does talk quite a bit about keeping slaves in their place. Just sayin'.

As for women and their place, we've got Ephesians 5:22-25, Colossians 3:18, 1 Peter 3:1, 1 Timothy 2:12, 1 Corinthians 14:34.

Gays? Well, without getting into Leviticus, there's always 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

In the Middle Ages the Catholic Church made legislation to restrict Jews to Ghettos, forbid them from exercising certain professions (like medicine), marrying Christians, and so on, centuries before Nazis got in on the act. All to "protect the faith." No doubt they had sound biblical reasons for this.

[Lothian]

This logic implies that if something is not original, then it was stolen. This means you'll never believe me if I told you I went to Germany, because others have went to Germany before I did.
-Elliot
As Arkan said you have moved the goalposts but to stick to your analogy; I am happy to concede that Christianity’s stories follow a well worn path, the point Palimpsest originally made. It is you that are claiming to be the only one to have gone to Germany and that Christianity has an original message.

[Roadtoad]

In defense of Elliot, he's not ducking these issues as others have. And he's stuck to his guns, for the most part. He's civil, which is a huge step forward. If he's guilty of anything, it's simply being human. I'd buy him a beer anytime.

[kurious_kathy]

1. Assuming there is a god.
2. Assuming that god is the god of the bible.
3. Assuming that we believe in 'sin'.

If Love dying conquered sin, why does it still exist? If it still exists, why aren't more deaths needed?

And why the heck did an omnipotent being create a creature which would always be at war with it?
Death is a natural part of life. The Bible tells us wages us sin is death so each of us that is a sinner is sure to pay the penalty in this life. The cool thing is if we receive Christ we won't stand judgement and die a second death which in scripture is defined as hell. Why go to hell if you can avoid it?

And then you bring up the first creature to sin, Lucifer. Well my hubby and I talk about it a lot and I have to agree with him when he says Satan is a catalyst for God to use to test each of us to see what's truely in our hearts.
Will we choose to love what God loves and hate what he hates?

Oh and getting back to another bumper sticker idea, how about...
"Love God / Hate Evil"

[RandFan]

Will we choose to love what God loves and hate what he hates? Facts not in evidence.

[kurious_kathy]

Facts not in evidence.
There is plenty of evidence of God in this world. His word is life, and truth, and it's standed the test of time. You can try to invalidate it all you want, but that won't work.

Do you rember the scripture that tells us that? Jesus told us heaven and earth will pass away, but my word will never pass away.

[Roadtoad]

See, Kathy, this is the problem. Elliot discusses. You PREACH! (And preach and preach and preach and preach...)

Ever thought that God was trying to speak to YOU, by putting you in with a bunch of skeptics who are demanding that you PROVE what you claim? Didn't think so.

[RandFan]

There is plenty of evidence of God in this world. His word is life, and truth, and it's standed the test of time. You can try to invalidate it all you want, but that won't work

Do you rember the scripture that tells us that? Jesus told us heaven and earth will pass away, but my word will never pass away.Platitudes.

[Roadtoad]

Now returning you to your original thread:

Saw this one on a truck from a mantel company here in town:

"If you drink and drive, YOU'RE AN IDIOT! Fair Dinkum, Mate."

(Okay, would one of our resident Aussies please explain "Fair Dinkum"? Where did THAT one come from?)

[kurious_kathy]

See, Kathy, this is the problem. Elliot discusses. You PREACH! (And preach and preach and preach and preach...)

Ever thought that God was trying to speak to YOU, by putting you in with a bunch of skeptics who are demanding that you PROVE what you claim? Didn't think so.
Oh OK RT. Here's an bumper sticker idea for you,"Only A Dummy Needs Proof" Ha Ha

Without faith it is impossible to please God!

[Roadtoad]

Clever. Did you make that one up yourself?

The last time I checked, even God offered proof of whom He was, and what He expected of people. Even offered Israel a test they could use to prove His existence. A lot of "dummies" in between the cover of that book you claim you follow so closely.

Faith isn't blindly spewing whatever comes to your mind. Actual faith requires something resembling common sense. Evidence. You might want to consider that one.

[RandFan]

Oh OK RT. Here's an bumper sticker idea for you,"Only A Dummy Needs Proof" Ha Ha

Con Man: Would you like to buy some snake oil
Mark: Do you have any proof that it works?
Con Man: "Only A Dummy Needs Proof" Ha Ha
Mark: I'll take it


Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. --Paul to the Theselonians 5:21

Paul, you silly man, don't you know? "Only A Dummy Needs Proof" Ha Ha

[kurious_kathy]

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. --Paul to the Theselonians 5:21

Paul, you silly man, don't you know? "Only A Dummy Needs Proof" Ha Ha
Prove and proof aren't excactly the same thing, are they?

Ok what about this bumper sticker idea..."Who's Your God?"

[EnanMyHero]

Death is a natural part of life. The Bible tells us wages us sin is death so each of us that is a sinner is sure to pay the penalty in this life. The cool thing is if we receive Christ we won't stand judgement and die a second death which in scripture is defined as hell. Why go to hell if you can avoid it?

And then you bring up the first creature to sin, Lucifer. Well my hubby and I talk about it a lot and I have to agree with him when he says Satan is a catalyst for God to use to test each of us to see what's truely in our hearts.
Will we choose to love what God loves and hate what he hates?

Oh and getting back to another bumper sticker idea, how about...
"Love God / Hate Evil"

If there truly is a god then your lucifer is just the alter ego of god. They are two sides of the same coin. Just think of Two-Face and there ya go.

In response to your bumper sticker idea... No... I'd rather have "Love Porn / Hate Censorship" :P

[EnanMyHero]

Prove and proof aren't excactly the same thing, are they?

Ok what about this bumper sticker idea..."Who's Your God?"


Already answered that one with "My God is Innorruuk"

[RandFan]

Prove and proof aren't exactly the same thing, are they? Different words same concept. I "prove" something by providing "proof".

Ok what about this bumper sticker idea..."Who's Your God?" I see no need for a God.

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. --1st letter of Paul to the Corinthians 1:11

[Anacoluthon64]

(Okay, would one of our resident Aussies please explain "Fair Dinkum"? Where did THAT one come from?)"Fair dinkum" means genuinely, honestly or really, IOW "no BS". For its origin, see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Dinkum).

'Luthon64

[Roadtoad]

Prove and proof aren't excactly the same thing, are they?

Ok what about this bumper sticker idea..."Who's Your God?"

You're right. It's a question of grammer and tense.

Who's my God? Obviously not yours.

My God wouldn't groove on the loss of an innocent child. Nor would He take pleasure in the suffering of another person.

My God wouldn't demand ignorance, and declare it faith. Nor would He be satisfied with ill considered or hackneyed platitudes when others suffer. He would not call pointless suffering Faith, nor would He allow his followers to sit idly by while other suffer. He would demand action.

Oddly enough, it's sort of what I read of God being in the Bible. Maybe you read a different one than I do, but that's what I see.

Funny. I see the same text in mine as I do in others, yet when I wanted to help people in pain and misery, I was told that I was interfering in God's Will. Fine. I suppose if wanting to ease the misery of others makes me a condemned man, I can at least go to Hell knowing I did so as a clear and conscious choice, rather than as some ignorant "savage" off in the hinterlands who never heard of God, and got along as best he could without Him.

[elliotfc]

Don't move the goalposts. You asked for Lothian expaned that to be sacrifice, instead of crucified, and answered you.

Jesus was the only one of these "figures" you declare to be executed by the state.

-Elliot

[bluess]

Now, now, Mistress, you're trying to reconcile religion and logic again. You know you'll just give yourself a migraine.

<sigh> Wish Freakshow would get back with the fishbowl. Then we could relax you properly. . . ;)

Praise the FSM and pass the meat sauce....

[bluess]

Death is a natural part of life. The Bible tells us wages us sin is death so each of us that is a sinner is sure to pay the penalty in this life.

Don't know why I keep doing this....

The death that ElliotFC is talking about is not the same as the physical death you address above. Do please try to keep your own theological definitions straight. According to your bible, sinners do not necessarily 'pay the penalty in this life'. They may 'flourish as the bay tree', but pay
'the penalty' in the after life.

The cool thing is if we receive Christ we won't stand judgement and die a second death which in scripture is defined as hell. Why go to hell if you can avoid it?

Have you read Dante lately? You'll be spending rather a long time in purgatory to expunge your sins prior to landing in heaven.

And then you bring up the first creature to sin, Lucifer. Well my hubby and I talk about it a lot and I have to agree with him when he says Satan is a catalyst for God to use to test each of us to see what's truely in our hearts. Will we choose to love what God loves and hate what he hates?

Attribute statements to the correct person, please. I mentioned nothing about Lucifer. But, moving on, why would the omnipotent and omniscient being you worship need to test you to determine what is truly in your heart? Doesn't he know?

And, Elliot, while I don't agree with you, I certainly appreciate your capacity to engage in intelligent discussion. I, too, would buy you a beer/cuppa/ice cream.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Jesus was the only one of these "figures" you declare to be executed by the state.

-Elliot

And that is another attempt to move the goalposts. You original statement was

How many God-man figures were crucified, besides Jesus?


The answer that was provided extrapolated "crucified" to "sacrificed". You did not correct them by stating you meant "executed by the state", but instead allowed the discussion to continue until this point; when it becomes convenient to redefine it.

[Ossai]

kurious_kathy
Death is a natural part of life. The Bible tells us wages us sin is death so each of us that is a sinner is sure to pay the penalty in this life. So then Jr. Love didn’t conquer death.

The cool thing is if we receive Christ we won't stand judgement and die a second death which in scripture is defined as hell. Where exactly? References.

Why go to hell if you can avoid it? Because heaven, as defined in the bible, is so much worse.

THE TEMPERATURE OF HEAVEN
The temperature of Heaven can be rather accurately computed. Our authority is Isaiah 30:26, "Moreover, the light of the Moon shall be as the light of the Sun and the light of the Sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days." Thus Heaven receives from the Moon as much radiation as we do from the Sun, and in addition 7*7 (49) times as much as the Earth does from the Sun, or 50 times in all. The light we receive from the Moon is one 1/10,000 of the light we receive from the Sun, so we can ignore that ... The radiation falling on Heaven will heat it to the point where the heat lost by radiation is just equal to the heat received by radiation, i.e., Heaven loses 50 times as much heat as the Earth by radiation. Using the Stefan-Boltzmann law for radiation, (H/E)^4 = 50, where E is the absolute temperature of the earth (300°K), gives H as 798°K (525°C). The exact temperature of Hell cannot be computed ... [However] Revelations 21:8 says "But the fearful, and unbelieving ... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." A lake of molten brimstone means that its temperature must be at or below the boiling point, 444.6°C. We have, then, that Heaven, at 525°C is hotter than Hell at 445°C.


Oh OK RT. Here's an bumper sticker idea for you, "Only A Dummy Needs Proof" Ha Ha Dam, all those apostles were dummies. After all they received lots of proof. What with Jr. walking around and performing all those miracles for them. How can we possibly trust the word of idiots?

Ossai

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Oh OK RT. Here's an bumper sticker idea for you,"Only A Dummy Needs Proof" Ha Ha

Without faith it is impossible to please God!

"Can't think for myself (or God will smite me)!" http://www.atheists-online.com/index.asp

[elliotfc]

And that is another attempt to move the goalposts. You original statement was


The answer that was provided extrapolated "crucified" to "sacrificed". You did not correct them by stating you meant "executed by the state", but instead allowed the discussion to continue until this point; when it becomes convenient to redefine it.

I'd like to reply to about 8 posts above, but I don't have the time today and shall be vacationing for a bit and if I bump into any of you I will expect to have beer and ice cream bought for me, I'm the tall good-looking guy with the big nose.

Yes, my original statement *was* crucified. What other figure was crucified? Not Buddha. Not Horus/Osiris. A few...questionable websites...claim such things. I've yet to see any expert in mythology confirm these made up lists of correlations (while I of course admit that some of them are true similarities).

I was being *generous*, in my opinion, by changing it to sacrificed, from crucified. I did add state to that mix.

As for my moving the goalposts, my point was that just because a *correlation* can be seen, it doesn't mean that later things which can be said to correlate to previous things necessarily implies duplication, as opposed to actual occurrence.

Is it logical, or, not illogical, to believe that similarities between Jesus and other dying/rising figures implies that the Jesus story was altered or completely guided by copying elements from previous mythologies? Sure. I would only add that I think adherents to this model do a tremendous disservice by a)MAKING THINGS UP (often by giving a laundry list of similarities without providing any references to where the particular was culled from) b)ignoring the essential differences between the figures and c)assuming that similarity proves, conclusively, that a story was built on stories of the past.

Many Christians believe that previous templates of dying/rising figures are "happy dreams", which would make it easier to accept the *true* dying/rising figure. Just throwing that out there.

-Elliot

[kurious_kathy]

kurious_kathy
So then Jr. Love didn’t conquer death.

Death couldn't keep Jesus because he never sinned. He rose again and three days and there were many people that saw him before he assended into heaven. I have quite often wondered what it would have looked like standing there watching Jesus assend. Imagine a helium ballon as it rises. I think his it must of been incredible to stand there and just watch him go up.

Where exactly? References.

I'll get back to you when I have a little more time. This is my day to volunteer at the pregnancy center.

Because heaven, as defined in the bible, is so much worse.

No, hell is described as the unquenchable fire, Heaven will be a place of great joy! I prefer heaven to hell,I think you might want to reconsider your statement. Once you die it will be too late.
Why did Jesus talk more about hell than heaven?



Dam, all those apostles were dummies. After all they received lots of proof. What with Jr. walking around and performing all those miracles for them. How can we possibly trust the word of idiots?Ossai
Jesus did many miracle to show people who he really was. What concerns me now is that he left us with the statement here in Matt 12:38-40...

The Desire for Signs
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

[RandFan]

Jesus did many miracle to show people who he really was. What concerns me now is that he left us with the statement here in Matt 12:38-40...

The Desire for Signs
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Assuming the story is true then they got their sign. How convenient that proof (signs) are not to be given out anymore and that to want proof (a sign) is to be evil. What? Paul said "prove all things". How can I prove those things without proof.

Need help here.

[sphenisc]

THE TEMPERATURE OF HEAVEN[/b]
The temperature of Heaven can be rather accurately computed. Our authority is Isaiah 30:26, "Moreover, the light of the Moon shall be as the light of the Sun and the light of the Sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days." Thus Heaven receives from the Moon as much radiation as we do from the Sun, and in addition 7*7 (49) times as much as the Earth does from the Sun, or 50 times in all. The light we receive from the Moon is one 1/10,000 of the light we receive from the Sun, so we can ignore that ... The radiation falling on Heaven will heat it to the point where the heat lost by radiation is just equal to the heat received by radiation, i.e., Heaven loses 50 times as much heat as the Earth by radiation. Using the Stefan-Boltzmann law for radiation, (H/E)^4 = 50, where E is the absolute temperature of the earth (300°K), gives H as 798°K (525°C). The exact temperature of Hell cannot be computed ... [However] Revelations 21:8 says "But the fearful, and unbelieving ... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." A lake of molten brimstone means that its temperature must be at or below the boiling point, 444.6°C. We have, then, that Heaven, at 525°C is hotter than Hell at 445°C.

Ossai

Using this version
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Is++30:26

I interpret this as meaning the moon will be equivalent to 1 [present] sun and the sun will provide seven times as much radiation, giving a total of 8. Using this value gives Heaven a temperature of 231°C, way cooler than Hell.

[DJ Hexadecibel]

Neopagans are (generally) a good group. A bit credulous, but more than made up for in their non-evangelicalismness and sense of humor "Something Wiccan This Way Comes", "My Other Car is a Broom" etc

My favourite button: "MUMBLE, Mumble, mumble....POOF!"

[Ossai]

kurious_kathy
Death couldn't keep Jesus because he never sinned. He rose again and three days Apparently you can’t count. Friday night, all day Saturday does not make three days.
Let me simplify
Friday afternoon and night = ½ day (being generous here I could give it 1)
All day Saturday = 1 day
½ + 1 = 1.5 not 3
(being generous 1 + 1 = 2 not 3)

and there were many people that saw him before he assended into heaven. The bible also reported zombies dead saints appearing and walking amongst the living, but no one outside the story bothered to report all the dead walking about.

I have quite often wondered what it would have looked like standing there watching Jesus assend. Imagine a helium ballon as it rises. I think his it must of been incredible to stand there and just watch him go up. The Silver age Superman did it better, catch phrase and everything.

No, hell is described as the unquenchable fire, Heaven will be a place of great joy! I prefer heaven to hell,I think you might want to reconsider your statement. Once you die it will be too late. Yes and as defined in the bible, Heaven will be even hotter.

The Desire for Signs
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Well, there you have it. Jr. declared himself NOT the Son of Man. Apparently Jr. just couldn’t go that extra day and a half.

Ossai

[DJ Hexadecibel]

Not a bumper sticker, but how about "Parking for witches only: All others will be toad!"

Ha, I remember Quest for Glory: So You Want to Be a Hero using that gag on the signs going to Erasmus's house.

"Wilkommen auf Zauberberg!" (sp?)


"Trespassers will be Toad!"

[DJ Hexadecibel]

One I always wanted to see but I'm too cute and harmless and friendly to suggest such a thing.

Keep your Bible out of my panties!



Harmless, huh? Guess that rules out S&M, hmm? :D

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but whips and chains excite me!

[DJ Hexadecibel]

[life of Brian]Apart from them, What other gods was the Jesus story stolen from?[/life of brian]


Um. . .brought peace?


Well, I say you're the Messiah, and I should know. I've followed a few!

[supercorgi]

Don't know why I keep doing this....

It's sort of like poking a dead animal with a stick. Useless, disgusting, but strangely fascinating.

[bluess]

It's sort of like poking a dead animal with a stick. Useless, disgusting, but strangely fascinating.

A snorting, embarassing laughing fit has just occurred.....

[Meffy]

@DJ Hex: Sorry, the only BDSM that interests me is Blessed Dragon Scale Mail in the old game Nethack. :-}

[Roadtoad]

Jesus did many miracle to show people who he really was. What concerns me now is that he left us with the statement here in Matt 12:38-40...

The Desire for Signs
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

A generation now long past.

Kathy, let me try to get through to you one more time. Maybe you'll figure this out, this time.

What you cannot seem to grasp is that people here do not hate Jesus. There are serious questions people have regarding Christ, but this is not out of hate, but out of genuine interest in dealing with things in a rational manner. This means people need FACTS, rather than mere "belief."

There is nothing wrong with believing. It's when there's nothing to support it that you run into trouble.

Airplanes fly. They don't fly because of magic; they fly because their design takes the maximum advantage of physical laws which make flight possible. It's the same thing behind boats floating, houses standing, Spidey13 farting.... (Okay, that last one was a ringer. No one knows why Spidey farts.)

You have engaged in some of the weirdest scripture twisting I've ever encountered. To be honest, I'd have to find a Jehovah's Witness to get it close to warping it out of shape as badly as you have. Randfan and others have shown you REPEATEDLY where you're wrong. You've ignored it, though why you would, I've no clue, particularly since you claim you're interested in learning more.

I'm reminded of an argument I've had with others about Paul's letters to Timothy. He tells Timothy to study to show himself approved. Study what? The Bible? It didn't exist at that time, and the Septuagint, the Greek Old Testament, would only have been in the hands of the learned few. Even a Hebrew copy of the OT would have been exceptionally rare, and only in the hands of Rabbis and other scholars, and not in the hands of someone who was in leadership of the "Nazarene Cult."

There were other Christian scholars at that time, though none as well trained and known as Paul. (From what I've read, even Mary Magdalene was considered quite a teacher at that time.) If I had to guess, Paul wanted Timothy to study such writings as those of Aristotle, Plato, Hippocrates, Euclid, Archimedes... In other words, the best scholars of the day.

There was time when the Church was THE repository for scientific knowledge, and the one place where you could count on getting a good education. It was the place where some of the greatest advances in knowledge were taking place, though not always with the blessings of the papacy. Gregor Mendel, as only one example, was a monk. Thomas Aquinas, who was at the leading edge of the Scholastic Movement, was also a theologian. It's hard to remember this when you're watching Jerry Fallwell or Pat Robertson as they're hawking Intelligent Design.

The whole point of belief is to either confirm it or deny it, but to do so on the basis of fact. Without that, you don't have faith, you have illusion. Either learn, or admit ignorance, even if it's willful. But don't claim to have what you don't.

A co-worker of mine pulled the "chair test" with me once, about two years ago. He told me to sit in the chair, then told me I sat down because of Faith. Maybe so; I'd seen someone else heavier than me sitting in it, and it held them. I figured it would hold my fat @$$, too. But real Faith involves knowing the realities behind the structure of that chair, knowing that if it's constructed in a particular manner, it will hold weight, and it will do so for a considerable length of time. Real Faith, to use the light switch analogy, is knowing the basic principles of what makes electricity work, so you truly understand what happens when you flip that switch.

As I've said: I'm questioning everything about what I believe. If this leads me to believe that there is no God, it will be based on factual evidence, not what I want to believe. It means instead of basing my actions on hitting my knees and muttering platitudes to an entity which may or may not exist, (and frankly, if we're so fallen, why is He cutting deals with us at all?), I've been basing them over the past few years on what I know works, based on what the evidence shows.

Sometimes it works. Usually, when it doesn't, it's because I failed in my initial analysis, and wound up reverting to wishful thinking. (In other words, I've had my head up my @$$.)

Frankly, I wish I could truly "believe" as I did years ago, and "know" that everything would work out for the best if I just prayed, payed my tithe, and attended Church. Reality, though, shows that if you want what's best, you're better off with the best information, properly applied. Can't do that? You've no one to blame but yourself when all Hell breaks loose and things go very wrong.

If I get sick, I don't want someone nattering away over me. I want a doctor, someone who has the training, the discipline, the skill, to heal me. Good intentions are fine, but if that's all you have, you're going to kill people. Your Faith will fail. Competence is what you want.

I want proof. I want evidence. I deserve nothing less, if for no other reason than because the stakes are so high. So far, the Evidence does not favor "God." It favors something altogether more fascinating, something far more effective in this world, and quite likely, in the next should it exist. Maybe, just maybe, in searching for God, we're better off looking where we have strong evidence, rather than where we want it to be. Seems to me astronomers, physicists, chemists, biologists and the like would have a better handle on who God truly is than someone who buries their head in an ancient book and drones on and on about the Glories of God, ignoring the very real glories which surround us all. (Something I picked up from Asimov.)

Just a thought.

[Spidey13]

snip...Airplanes fly. They don't fly because of magic; they fly because their design takes the maximum advantage of physical laws which make flight possible. It's the same thing behind boats floating, houses standing, Spidey13 farting.... (Okay, that last one was a ringer. No one knows why Spidey farts.) snip...

It's just my little way of saying, "I love you."

[atari24]

@DJ Hex: Sorry, the only BDSM that interests me is Blessed Dragon Scale Mail in the old game Nethack. :-}

Whoa :eye-poppi

[DJ Hexadecibel]

Whoa :eye-poppi

Nice, your Keanu Reeves impersonation is coming along nicely. Once you master "the squint" you shall be a force to be reckoned with. Moo-hoo-ha-ha!

[DJ Hexadecibel]

@DJ Hex: Sorry, the only BDSM that interests me is Blessed Dragon Scale Mail in the old game Nethack. :-}

Understandable, but a wee walk on the wild side never hurt anybody. . .uh, except Tim Treadwell. . .and Jim Morrison...and Hendrix...aw, hell, if you need me I'll be playing Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga...where Argilla consumes demons via her breasts. . .yet is ambivalent about it.:confused: Still, the storyline is much better than anything else I've seen or played. A game that has a Mantra called Insane God I can dig. There's even one called Wikipedia! Definitely worth checking out if you have a PS2, and you can find it.

[Yahzi]

As long as we are discussing bumper stickers, I find this one quite funny:

"Annoy a liberal: work, succeed, be happy"

But the response:

"Annoy a conservative: defend the Constitution"

is just lame and not funny at all. Here is what I think the counter-sticker should be:

"Annoy a conservative: conserve!"

:D

[Yahzi]

@DJ Hex: Sorry, the only BDSM that interests me is Blessed Dragon Scale Mail in the old game Nethack. :-}
We need to know the answer to this very important question:

Silver or Gray?

:D

[Meffy]

Darn if I remember. Been a LONG time since I marched a little white @ around a maze of gray #### fighting various letters of the alphabet... :-D

[kurious_kathy]

Assuming the story is true then they got their sign. How convenient that proof (signs) are not to be given out anymore and that to want proof (a sign) is to be evil. What? Paul said "prove all things". How can I prove those things without proof.

Need help here.
Jesus died but he rose again and he is very much in control of this world. I just don't know why he hasn't come back yet? Why is it so hard for you to just want to believe in God's only Son?

Bumper sticker idea..."When The Son Set's You Free, You Are Free Indeed!"

[RandFan]

Jesus died but he rose again and he is very much in control of this world. I just don't know why he hasn't come back yet? Why is it so hard for you to just want to believe in God's only Son?The same reason it is hard for me to just want to believe in Sikhism.
The same reason it is hard for me to just want to believe in Hinduism.
The same reason it is hard for me to just want to believe in Islam.
The same reason it is hard for me to just want to believe in Paganism.
The same reason it is hard for me to just want to believe in Zoroastrianism.
The same reason it is hard for me to just want to believe in Bahaism.
The same reason it is hard for me to just want to believe in Animism.

You and I are both skeptical of religions. I'm just skeptical of one more religion than you.

So, I'm curious, why is it so hard for you to believe in all of these other religions?

Bumper sticker idea..."When The Son Set's You Free, You Are Free Indeed!"If you ascribe to that. What I don't understand is why I should believe in "The Son"?

[Tricky]

Bumper sticker idea..."When The Son Set's You Free, You Are Free Indeed!"
"Unless you decide that you want to try a different religion. Then you are free to go to hell."

BTW "sets" doesn't have an apostrophe. I hope your bumper-sticker folks have proofreaders.

[wollery]

Jesus died but he rose again and he is very much in control of this world. I just don't know why he hasn't come back yet? Why is it so hard for you to just want to believe in God's only Son?The problem here is with the word want. I believe in things for which there is tangible evidence. Jesus does not fall into that category.

Bumper sticker idea..."When The Son Set's You Free, You Are Free Indeed!"How witty, have you ever considered a job in creative writing? :rolleyes: