Vent it here ... bad driiving on the road. [Archive] - Page 2

Rob Lister

8th May 2006, 06:24 PM

It's not really a driving issue, but people with super clean polished "Hummers" tick me off. These are the same people who have leashes for their kids - I'm sure of it.

Heh, "super clean polished Hummer", I'm sure some of you are laughing at that.

I thought leashes for kids was a horrible idea until I had three of them.

I bought three leashes. Childless parents glared or tsk'ed in disgust.

I only rarely lost them after that.

Plus, I'd love a hummer...car or verb.

WildCat

8th May 2006, 06:32 PM

You’re all a bunch of F**ken mo-rans, there is not one state in the US that allows a driver to exceed the posted speed limit in any lane.
In Illinois, the police enforce the law when it comes to speed limits.

The law says you must get out of the left lane if possible, to allow faster traffic to pass. If they are speeding, they risk a speeding ticket. It is not up to private citizens to enforce the speed limit by blocking a lane.

Rob Lister

8th May 2006, 06:39 PM

Whydoe

8th May 2006, 06:56 PM

I thought leashes for kids was a horrible idea until I had three of them.

I bought three leashes. Childless parents glared or tsk'ed in disgust.

I only rarely lost them after that.

I have two myself. But I think I would have to leash something else if I had 3. :eek:

And, oh ya, I hate people that love to use their cruise control even when passing. Even when you are doing 60 and they are passing you doing 60.2.

Rob Lister

8th May 2006, 06:59 PM

I think a Smart Cruize Control would sell nicely. It should 'track' the car ahead and maintain a safe distance while matching speed. Plus or minus some predefined limit, of course.

Just thinking

8th May 2006, 07:21 PM

You ought to be maintaining sufficent following distance that this isn't a problem.

True enough -- which is how I once pulled into where a large propane truck (non-articulated) was about to refill. I got out after we both stopped and told him that his brake lights were not working -- I always thought drivers of such were required to do a safety inspection before going out onto the road with vehicles of that sort.

But back to your point -- keeping a safe distance is hard to do when you don't realize until it's almost too late that their tail lights are out -- even in broad daylight.

BPSCG

9th May 2006, 05:39 AM

You ought to be maintaining sufficent following distance that this isn't a problem.Um, you understand, of course, that the purpose of tail lights is so that people can see you in the first place; if I can't see you, how am I supposed to know how close I am to you? This guy had a dark car, and visibility that night wasn't so hot (I think it was a little foggy or drizzling - don't recall for sure), and I was almost on top of him before I could see him.

ETA: I just realized your possible source of confusion. I said his tail lights were out. Sounds like you thought I meant brake lights.

ImaginalDisc

9th May 2006, 05:42 AM

Um, you understand, of course, that the purpose of tail lights is so that people can see you in the first place; if I can't see you, how am I supposed to know how close I am to you? This guy had a dark car, and visibility that night wasn't so hot (I think it was a little foggy or drizzling - don't recall for sure), and I was almost on top of him before I could see him.

Those are wonderful excuses, but you're supposed to be maintaining sufficent following distance that even given those circumstances, that isn't a problem.

My state recomends one second of following time for every ten miles per hour of speed. That's eight seconds at eighty miles an hour, and four at fourty. The car in front of you could magically transform into a steel girder at that following distance, and you still wouldn't crash.

Try defensive driving, instead of blaming others.

BPSCG

9th May 2006, 05:53 AM

Those are wonderful excuses, but you're supposed to be maintaining sufficent following distance that even given those circumstances, that isn't a problem.You're missing the point. Tell me how you are supposed to determine what a safe following distance is if you can't even see the guy you're following - if you don't even know he's there.
Try defensive driving, instead of blaming others.I do, in fact. Whenever someone gets near me, I find myself thinking, "What do I do if this guy tries to do something insane?" Saved me from more than a few accidents.

FWIW, my last collision with another vehicle was over 30 years ago when a lady backed into me despite the fact that I was leaning on my horn.

ImaginalDisc

9th May 2006, 05:57 AM

You're missing the point. Tell me how you are supposed to determine what a safe following distance is if you can't even see the guy you're following - if you don't even know he's there.

You're not helping your case any. If you're having trouble seeing the car in front of you, then you most definately need to increase following distance.

Edit: If you honestly were completely unable to see it, buy glasses.

Just thinking

9th May 2006, 06:04 AM

Those are wonderful excuses, but you're supposed to be maintaining sufficent following distance that even given those circumstances, that isn't a problem.

My state recomends one second of following time for every ten miles per hour of speed. That's eight seconds at eighty miles an hour, and four at fourty. The car in front of you could magically transform into a steel girder at that following distance, and you still wouldn't crash.

(Calmly spoken) -- ID, BPSCG isn't making excuses, the reality is as one is driving one has to be aware of many things on the road all at once. And even though keeping a safe distance behind a vehicle is one of them, it does in part require at times the cooperation of the vehicle in front of you; specifically his maintaining of a safe vehicle. This includes both working brake and tail lights (back-up lights too). More that I would like to remember I have seen vehicles in the dead of night coming at me with absolutely no lights on what-so-ever (in the opposite lane, of course). My reaction time (as well as BPSCG's) is greatly reduced to any adverse action due to my inability to observe it with sufficient warning -- we do our best but continually rely on the cooperation of others all the time; at red lights, stop signs and even in keeping within one's lane as they come at you at a combined speed of over 90 mph (45 mph each way).

BPSCG

9th May 2006, 06:10 AM

I have seen vehicles in the dead of night coming at me with absolutely no lights on what-so-ever (in the opposite lane, of course). My reaction time (as well as BPSCG's) is greatly reduced to any adverse action due to my inability to observe it with sufficient warning -- we do our best but continually rely on the cooperation of others all the time; at red lights, stop signs and even in keeping within one's lane as they come at you at a combined speed of over 90 mph (45 mph each way).Well, then you need to drive slower. And get glasses...:boggled:

Right, ID?

Jocko

9th May 2006, 07:04 AM

You ought to be maintaining sufficent following distance that this isn't a problem.

What, are you a damned traffic lawyer or something? You spend a lot of time manufacturing excuses for the idiots on the road.

Jocko

9th May 2006, 07:05 AM

You're not helping your case any. If you're having trouble seeing the car in front of you, then you most definately need to increase following distance.

Edit: If you honestly were completely unable to see it, buy glasses.

Oh, I get it now.

You're just another pokey passing lane-hog with defective tail lights. It's all so clear now, I can't believe I didn't figure it out sooner. Just stay the hell out of my way; I have places to be, even if you don't. ;)

kedo1981

9th May 2006, 08:43 AM

Jocko

9th May 2006, 09:05 AM

I used to own a 3 cylinder Geo (2 weeks of driving on 5 bucks worth of gas: “SWEET”) but I digress.
Who the F**k said anything about enforcing laws, the only law I’m concerned about enforcing is my own law of survival, which ain’t easy when retarded c**k-s**kers like Mr. Jocko here, thinks his need to get to his boyfriends house 30 seconds sooner trumps basic common sense.

You drove a 3-cylinder car, and then imply I'm the one with a boyfriend? That's so cute.

Here's another law to consider: P=ma.

I've got plenty of m, and more a than a than you can likely imagine. So just keep that in mind the next time you think you're gonna teach other drivers a "lesson" in the proper use of the left lane.

That, my friend, is common sense. The same thing that keeps you from playing on the train tracks. Or not.

Forty-Two

9th May 2006, 09:06 AM

Bad driving rant: I was on the 101 at a place where it was three lanes in both directions. I'm in the far right lane because my exit is three exits away. There's a big truck hauling some wide load next to me in the center lane. He pulls up a little (so my car is pretty much lined up with the center of his rig), and then just starts drifting into my lane, pushing me off the road. I lay on my horn, trying to give him the benefit of the doubt -- maybe I'm in his blind spot. He keeps coming, so I have to hit the brakes so he can get into my lane ahead of me. I'm a bit shaken by the close call, but I still give the guy the benefit of the doubt -- maybe he just realized that he had to exit next and wanted to get over in time. But one exit passes without him leaving, and then another one, and just before I'm about to exit, he just drifts back into the center lane. So, I guess he just felt like scaring the s*** out of some woman in a Camry. Go him.

Jocko

9th May 2006, 09:08 AM

BPSCG

9th May 2006, 09:15 AM

So, I guess he just felt like scaring the s*** out of some woman in a Camry. Go him.Duel (http://imdb.com/title/tt0067023/).

Jocko

9th May 2006, 09:17 AM

Duel (http://imdb.com/title/tt0067023/).

Best desert car thriller starring Sonny Bono lookalike ever.

BPSCG

9th May 2006, 09:20 AM

Best desert car thriller starring Sonny Bono lookalike ever.And your driving philosophy captured on film for all posterity as well. :D

ImaginalDisc

9th May 2006, 09:23 AM

Jocko

9th May 2006, 09:32 AM

BPSCG, Jocko, Just Thinking,

I have absolutely zero sympathy for reckless drivers, who tailgate, and then blame their near-crashes on others. I'm perfectly aware that other people are bad drivers. Avoid an accident is your own responsability, no one else's. Drive defensively, avoid tailgating, and stop whining that you can't drive down the road like a bat out of hell, as though you own the road, because you don't.

Actually, I can, and I do. And somehow, I manage to sleep without your sympathy.

And in case you haven't noticed, the whining is coming from the right lane, not mine. ;)

Edited to add: Tell me, ID, if no one should ever exceed the posted limit, why have a second (or third, or fourth) lane at all?

BPSCG

9th May 2006, 09:44 AM

BPSCG, Jocko, Just Thinking,

I have absolutely zero sympathy for reckless drivers, who tailgate, FYI, I don't tailgate, your miscomprehension of the incident I referred to above notwithstanding. I do keep a healthy distance from the guy in front of me (and I adjust for conditions, rather than sticking to the silly, one-size-fits-all-conditions "one car length for each ten mph" rule), because it frankly makes me nervous when I get too close to the guy in front of me.

But I also get out of the way when someone comes riding up my butt. Not because he frightens me, but because if I'm comfortable going the speed I'm going, I can just move over and let him go by at the much faster speed he evidently prefers, and then get back in the left lane when he's passed. It's easy to do when your ego isn't wrapped up in your car (and if you are comfortable changing lanes, something a lot of people have no idea howto do), and sometimes you're rewarded when you see your erstwhile tailgater on the shoulder a few miles ahead, explaining his business to the local constable. The cop could have just as easily been talking to you.

In short, I don't move over when someone's tailgating me because I'm afraid of him, but rather because it makes perfect sense to do so. To sit in front of him is wilfull idiocy. Allowing him to pass isn't going to slow you down.

jimlintott

9th May 2006, 10:25 AM

Tailgating, eh. Here's my take:

Tailgating is one of the single stupidest things you can do while driving. I generally drive faster than the rest of the traffic and encounter the slow guys in the left lane often enough. I flash them and if they don't move over I patiently follow at a safe distance and periodically flash again. They are usually in the left lane for one of a couple of reasons. Traffic is heavy and they are moving slightly faster the the plugged right lane. In this case passing them usually means you will gain a car length before you are behind the next guy. Or, there is plenty of room in the right lane and the guy is a total moron. Basic driving rule; give morons lots and lots of room. An even better reason not to tailgate them.

Tailgaters are usually in two different camps. They believe that even though traffic is heavy that they own the road and everyone should instantly scoot out of the way even if not possible. For this person driving is about testosterone and is a great source of stress. They have the pateince of a two year old and usually a history of accidents. The other tailgater does'nt realise they are tailgating which means they are just a really bad driver. No excuse in either case. It is stupid and asking for trouble.

A good driver does not tailgate! A good driver is patient! Remember that many drivers aren't purposely trying to annoy you, they are just really poor drivers. Being aggressive with them is stupid and asking for trouble.

Jocko

9th May 2006, 10:28 AM

For the record, I also keep a sharp on my rearview mirror for passers. Yes, even I get passed now and again.

I always yield the lane in those cases. ALWAYS. Partly for karmic purposes, partly to demonstrate to people like Gnome and ID how it's done.

See, the thing is, when I observe my legal duty as a driver, there is no conflict. It's only when some douchebag decides to play speed limit vigilante in the passing lane that problems crop up.

BTW, I also never take my cell phone out of my pocket while driving. So any of you people who grouse about dangerous behavior can just kiss my tailpipe.

BPSCG

9th May 2006, 10:32 AM

Remember that many drivers aren't purposely trying to annoy you, they are just really poor drivers. And that annoys the hell out of me.

If you can't swim, you don't jump in the pool. If you can't ski, you stay off snow-covered mountains. And if you can't handle the complexities of maneuvering a ton-and-a-half of machinery down the road at 88 feet per second in the midst of thousands of other people doing the same thing, then stay out of the goddam car!

Jocko

9th May 2006, 10:35 AM

Remember that many drivers aren't purposely trying to annoy you, they are just really poor drivers.

Gnome, at least, has proudly declared that he (she?) does.

As to those who don't realize it, that's what the occassional polite reminder is for... to improve their driving skills. ;)

Just thinking

9th May 2006, 10:37 AM

BPSCG, Jocko, Just Thinking,

... Avoid an accident is your own responsability, no one else's. Drive defensively, avoid tailgating, and stop whining that you can't drive down the road like a bat out of hell, as though you own the road, because you don't.

(Emphasis mine.)

First off, I haven't whined a bit -- unless you call being repsectfully polite whining. Second -- I don't condone driving down the road like some flying mammal who lost his way out of Hades. Third, and most importantly -- I believe you might not be aware that one can get a summons for not having properly operating tail or brake lights (not to mention failing inspection). Now, just why is that? Might it be that you now become a hazard to other drivers? -- that your vehicle is now considered to be unsafe? There are many instances where one simply might not be able to avoid an accident no matter what -- even standing still, as I was recently in a parking lot. The other guy was cited with a summons and I was not.

There are basically 3 reasons for lights on a car ...
1) to allow the driver to see the road.
2) to indicate the presence of a vehicle.
3) to indicate the intentions of a vehicle (turning-braking-backing up).

If a vehicle is on the road and through failure of using said lights creates a dangerous condition it is HIS fault for doing so. If an accident is the result, he will be at least in part (if not fully) responsible. Try arguing in front of a judge why you should not get a ticket for no tail lights because other drivers should be more aware of their conditions and you just might get your penalty doubled. Not to mention a chuckle out of everyone else in the courtroom.

gnome

9th May 2006, 10:42 AM

Gnome, at least, has proudly declared that he (she?) does.

As to those who don't realize it, that's what the occassional polite reminder is for... to improve their driving skills. ;)

I'll admit, I'm not above annoying someone (in a safe manner) that has done something I consider worse than an annoyance.

gnome

9th May 2006, 10:44 AM

Jocko

9th May 2006, 10:46 AM

I'll admit, I'm not above annoying someone (in a safe manner) that has done something I consider worse than an annoyance.

Pardon me if I'm skeptical of your idea of a "safe manner" or what you "consider worse." See, that's just you acting like a jerk while trying to disingenuously deny your true motivations.

Jocko

9th May 2006, 10:48 AM

What do you consider a polite reminder?

Flash of the brights, tap of the horn, anything to make the schmuck in question look into his/her mirror and grasp the very, very simple idea that he/she is not alone on the road.

Since we're on the subject again, what do you consider rude passing lane behavior?

gnome

9th May 2006, 11:29 AM

Pardon me if I'm skeptical of your idea of a "safe manner" or what you "consider worse." See, that's just you acting like a jerk while trying to disingenuously deny your true motivations.

I think we've beaten this argument to death... surely everyone here knows well what each of us thinks on this point :)

gnome

9th May 2006, 11:30 AM

Flash of the brights, tap of the horn, anything to make the schmuck in question look into his/her mirror and grasp the very, very simple idea that he/she is not alone on the road.

Since we're on the subject again, what do you consider rude passing lane behavior?
Those seem reasonable to me. And in fact I do consider dawdling in the left lane to be rude.

jimlintott

9th May 2006, 11:48 AM

And that annoys the hell out of me.

If you can't swim, you don't jump in the pool. If you can't ski, you stay off snow-covered mountains. And if you can't handle the complexities of maneuvering a ton-and-a-half of machinery down the road at 88 feet per second in the midst of thousands of other people doing the same thing, then stay out of the goddam car!
Oh yeah, it annoys the hell out of me too. Unfortunately, here in North America we treat driving as some sort of FSM given right. We're stuck with bad drivers but in traffic I say give them lots of room and be patient, after all I am the much better driver. A good driver can usually see the mistake the bad driver is about to make before the bad driver does.

I admit to one thing I do on purpose to annoy other drivers, that is when I am turning left at an intersection and the other driver has a stop sign that they have stopped a good car length past, I take the corner very, very slowly.

Why is it that I find the fast lane far more comfortable than the slow lane? Could it be that the people in the slow lane don't seem to know what they are doing? The people in the fast lane just want you to watch your mirror and get out of they way when necessary. If the slow lane is empty you shouldn't even be in the fast lane.:D

ferd burfle

9th May 2006, 12:59 PM

My pet peeve is people merging onto a freeway who come to a dead stop at the yield sign when traffic is moderate. Now they (and you) are trying to merge from a standing start. Just keep moving, give way if needed, signal and merge in, folks. But please don't just drop anchor on the onramp.

The people in the fast lane just want you to watch your mirror and get out of they way when necessary. If the slow lane is empty you shouldn't even be in the fast lane.:D

Agree totally with the second statment and in a qualified way with the first.

Look, on a freeway with a 65 limit, I try to drive 65. Yeah, what a concept. I *always* keep to the travel lane except to pass. And when I pull out to pass someone who's doing 60, I don't milk it and I don't, intentionally or otherwise, do 60 to cause a blockade. I get back over to the right lane as soon as it's safe. That said, I really resent those doing well over the limit who thunder up to tailgate me by half a car length while I'm passing someone. Drive whatever speed you want as long a you do it safely and skillfully. But if you think that you have some Dog-given right to speed in the passing lane totally unimpeded by legal drivers like me, you're flat-***** wrong. (Not saying that's your position, jimlintott). It's the passing lane for me too, folks.

Ferd

ZeeGerman

9th May 2006, 01:05 PM

I think a Smart Cruize Control would sell nicely. It should 'track' the car ahead and maintain a safe distance while matching speed. Plus or minus some predefined limit, of course.
That system is called ACC (adaptive cruise control). Uses radar to track the preceding vehicle. Available on Audi A6, A8, Q7, BMW 5er and 7er, Mercedes E and S class and even the new VW Passat. I'm sure many Japanese makers offer it as well. Costs a bit though and is not yet really completely reliable.

Zee

jimlintott

9th May 2006, 01:36 PM

My pet peeve is people merging onto a freeway who come to a dead stop at the yield sign when traffic is moderate. Now they (and you) are trying to merge from a standing start. Just keep moving, give way if needed, signal and merge in, folks. But please don't just drop anchor on the onramp.

Those people who stop at the end of the merge ramp are frightened. They don't like to drive. They lack skills and are always happy to make it home alive. You really have to watch out for them and trying to intimidate them makes it worse. Another reason to not tailgate.

Look, on a freeway with a 65 limit, I try to drive 65. Yeah, what a concept. I *always* keep to the travel lane except to pass. And when I pull out to pass someone who's doing 60, I don't milk it and I don't, intentionally or otherwise, do 60 to cause a blockade. I get back over to the right lane as soon as it's safe. That said, I really resent those doing well over the limit who thunder up to tailgate me by half a car length while I'm passing someone. Drive whatever speed you want as long a you do it safely and skillfully. But if you think that you have some Dog-given right to drive in the passing lane totally unimpeded, you're flat-***** wrong. (Not saying that's your position, jimlintott). It's the passing lane for me too, folks.

Ferd

Two thumbs up. You 'get it'. I wish everyone did. (Most people do, it's just a few that mess it up.)

ferd burfle

9th May 2006, 01:54 PM

Those people who stop at the end of the merge ramp are frightened. They don't like to drive. They lack skills and are always happy to make it home alive. You really have to watch out for them and trying to intimidate them makes it worse. Another reason to not tailgate.

Yes, you nailed it. These are the ones that are squeezing nectar from the steering wheel. Although is it still tailgating when you're stationary? :)

I live and drive mainly in southern New Hampshire and it's easy to stereotype people who do this trick as all being from Massachussetts. But in fairness to them, some of the on-ramps on their freeways e.g. Route 2 west of Boston were designed by cretins. Some of them are almost literally right turns onto a freeway with no chance to accelerate.

Ferd

BPSCG

9th May 2006, 03:23 PM

Those people who stop at the end of the merge ramp are frightened. They don't like to drive. They lack skills and are always happy to make it home alive. Then they shouldn't be on the road. Just because you're a voter and a taxpayer doesn't mean you have the skills to navigate a ton and a half of equipment down the road at 65 mph. If you can't figure it out, get off the goddam road.

When I take over, a lot of people are going to lose their driver's licenses.

Silly Green Monkey

9th May 2006, 08:29 PM

You know, all these good drivers were bad drivers once....

alfaniner

10th May 2006, 06:39 AM

Flash of the brights, tap of the horn, anything to make the schmuck in question look into his/her mirror and grasp the very, very simple idea that he/she is not alone on the road.
...

Around here, that amounts to shouting "GET OUTTA MY WAY!", which usually meets with a response of the front driver either slowing down or slamming on the brakes. Not me, of course.

Jocko

10th May 2006, 06:49 AM

Around here, that amounts to shouting "GET OUTTA MY WAY!", which usually meets with a response of the front driver either slowing down or slamming on the brakes. Not me, of course.

Which rather seems to bolster my point that the problem is usually - if not always - the lead vehicle, now doesn't it? Anyone who does that with me is gonna have to let their estate sue me, because I guarantee they will not survive to do it themselves. I keep a tire iron in the trunk to take care of any survivors, witnesses, etc. If these folks wanna be "dead right," that suits me fine.

Here's another little behavior that I believe should be eligible for the death penalty upon conviction in a court of law: refusing to take a plainly available and legal right turn on red while others are waiting to do the same.

Yes, I know turning right on red optional. All good manners are optional. Failure to exercise that option should open new options for those who are thus inconvenienced, such as inflicting blunt trauma to the back of the head. At least then the driver will have an excuse for his inertia.

Jocko

10th May 2006, 06:53 AM

You know, all these good drivers were bad drivers once....

Yes, but all these bad drivers heve been hazards and headaches their entire lives. I'm with BPSCG; there ought to be an IQ test administered along with the standard road test.

BPSCG

10th May 2006, 06:58 AM

Failure to exercise that option should open new options for those who are thus inconvenienced, such as inflicting blunt trauma to the back of the head. At least then the driver will have an excuse for his inertia.:clap: Had one this past weekend. I was the second car behind the ditz. She clearly had plenty of room and time to turn right on the red, a fact which the guy in front of me tried to impress upon her with repeated blasting his horn at her. To no avail.

The light finally changed, and she turned. I followed, then swung out in the lane to her left to pass her. Good thing, too, because she was clearly lost (out-of-state plates) and decided she'd better stop right there in the middle of the road and get her bearings.:a2:

SGM, regarding your claim that:You know, all these good drivers were bad drivers once....You're right. But how long are we supposed to wait for a 50-year old bad driver to get competent?

pgwenthold

10th May 2006, 07:04 AM

I'm perfectly aware that other people are bad drivers. Avoid an accident is your own responsability, no one else's.

A month ago, I was in an accident.

The stop light turned green, and we all slowly progressed out. There was another stoplight about 2/10s of a mile down the road. Because it was so close, we never got up a lot of speed, and so I slowly deccelerated to stop a safe distance behind the car in front of me.

The woman behind me in the SUV with two kids in the back seat didn't stop, rear-ending me and causing $3500 in damage to my car.

If you could tell me ANYTHING I could have done to avoid the accident, I would appreciate hearing it.

I did not stop abruptly. I moved along with traffic, and even maintained a safe distance behind the car in front of me. Is it my responsibility to make sure the driver behind me is paying attention to the road and not distracted by her kids?

Nope. It was 100% her fault. There was nothing I could have done to prevent it, aside from not be there at that time (in which case, she would have hit someone else)

10th May 2006, 07:08 AM

See, the thing is, when I observe my legal duty as a driver, there is no conflict. It's only when some douchebag decides to play speed limit vigilante in the passing lane that problems crop up.

You truly must live in a perfect universe.

I don't drive much. I don't own a car because I don't need it in everyday life and my parents live close enough to me for me to borrow theirs when I really need one.

There are exactly two occasions when you can see me driving on the left lane:

I'm passing someone; or
I'm on a two-lane street where the right lane is going to end or turn to wrong direction soon.

When I'm passing someone, I come back to right lane as soon as it is safe to do it.

Still, I get tailgated.

I've been tailgated on one-lane city streets. I've been tailgated on one-line winding rural roads. I've been tailgated when I was passing a long rig on a highway. I've been tailgated on a parking lot. For random quantum fluctuation's sake, I've been even tailgated on a two-line highway when I was on the right lane and the passing lane was empty. I would like to find out what that particular idiot was thinking.

I usually drive a couple of km/h over the limit. Something like 54 km/h when the limit is 50. Nowadays I know that for certain because my father's car has an additional speed meter that is GPS-based.

And yet it is the "passing-lane vigilance" that causes the problems. Yeah, right.

Jocko

10th May 2006, 07:26 AM

You truly must live in a perfect universe.

I don't drive much. I don't own a car because I don't need it in everyday life and my parents live close enough to me for me to borrow theirs when I really need one.

There are exactly two occasions when you can see me driving on the left lane:

I'm passing someone; or
I'm on a two-lane street where the right lane is going to end or turn to wrong direction soon.

When I'm passing someone, I come back to right lane as soon as it is safe to do it.

Still, I get tailgated.

I've been tailgated on one-lane city streets. I've been tailgated on one-line winding rural roads. I've been tailgated when I was passing a long rig on a highway. I've been tailgated on a parking lot. For random quantum fluctuation's sake, I've been even tailgated on a two-line highway when I was on the right lane and the passing lane was empty. I would like to find out what that particular idiot was thinking.

I usually drive a couple of km/h over the limit. Something like 54 km/h when the limit is 50. Nowadays I know that for certain because my father's car has an additional speed meter that is GPS-based.

And yet it is the "passing-lane vigilance" that causes the problems. Yeah, right.

You sound like a responsible and courteous driver, and I'm sorry that you have to pay for the errors of lesser drivers. ;)

Matabiri

10th May 2006, 07:53 AM

The light finally changed, and she turned. I followed, then swung out in the lane to her left to pass her. Good thing, too, because she was clearly lost (out-of-state plates) and decided she'd better stop right there in the middle of the road and get her bearings.:a2:

Just to check for myself - turning right on a red light isn't legal in all states, is it? Sure I've heard that Nevada HP make plenty of hay out of California drivers turning through lights because they don't know it's illegal in Nevada.

Is there any way to know what road laws are different from state to state without having to read up on it every time you go over state lines? Is it possible she was from a state where this manoeuvre is illegal?

But stopping in the middle of the road is dumb.

BPSCG

10th May 2006, 07:56 AM

Is it possible she was from a state where this manoeuvre is illegal?No. Maryland plates. It's legal there, too.

Just thinking

10th May 2006, 07:56 AM

Jocko

10th May 2006, 08:03 AM

How about the tailgater who, after you've pulled into the right lane to allow him to pass, only speeds past you by several car lengths and then gets back in front of you -- only to slowly reduce their speed to less than yours -- now making you have to pass them!

And then, as they see you passing them, they realize they've slowed and speed up to prevent you to re-pass them!!

Tell me about it. What blows my mind is the way people don't notice variations in their speed. I'll be cruising up I-94 to Milwaukee, say, with the cruise control pegged at a nice, comfy 70 mph in a 55 zone. That's the common speed.

So there I am in the middle of three lanes... passing the pokey bastards on the right, getting passed by the occasional speeder on the left. All is well and good until I realize I'm passing (and getting passed) by the same Bozo over and over again.

I know I'm steady at 70, but this guy could be oscillating between 50 and 90, all of course without leaving the left lane. It's like he forgets how fast he wanted to go, notices someone he's passed creeping up on him, and he floors it... only to lax off in a couple more miles. Congestion always follows these people because they never leave a clear path around, and God forbid they ever get to the right...!

Cruise control on the highway. Learn it. Love it. Live it.

BPSCG

10th May 2006, 08:12 AM

Cruise control on the highway. Learn it. Love it. Live it.Bah!

My little Tiburon isn't what you would call overpowered, but it has a five speed manual transmission, suspension designed by Porsche, performance tires, and the color is "arrest-me-officer" red. When I was shopping for it, I rejected out of hand any such car that had cruise control. That's for your momma's Buick.

Cruise control is just one more excuse* to be out of touch with what you're doing - maneuvering a ton and a half of steel down an ever-changing obstacle course at 88 feet per second. You should know within 5 mph what speed you're doing just by the way the car sounds and feels, coupled with looking out the window.

* Other excuses: The radio, the CD player, the kids, the phone, the accident on the other side of the road, that fancy house off on the left, the babe standing on the corner, the GPS, the DVD player, the newspaper, the Big Mac, your eyeshadow, your electric razor...

Snide

10th May 2006, 08:31 AM

A month ago, I was in an accident.

The stop light turned green, and we all slowly progressed out. There was another stoplight about 2/10s of a mile down the road. Because it was so close, we never got up a lot of speed, and so I slowly deccelerated to stop a safe distance behind the car in front of me.

The woman behind me in the SUV with two kids in the back seat didn't stop, rear-ending me and causing $3500 in damage to my car.

If you could tell me ANYTHING I could have done to avoid the accident, I would appreciate hearing it.

I did not stop abruptly. I moved along with traffic, and even maintained a safe distance behind the car in front of me. Is it my responsibility to make sure the driver behind me is paying attention to the road and not distracted by her kids?

Nope. It was 100% her fault. There was nothing I could have done to prevent it, aside from not be there at that time (in which case, she would have hit someone else)This (nearly) exact thing happened to me 2 1/2 years ago. I was stopped at light # 1, it turned green, and traffic started going, but stoplight # 2 then just turned green, so I had to come to nearly a complete stop. I got plowed into from behind and my wife's car was totalled.

The only thing I possibly could have done is:

1) Recognize the potential hazard of two close stoplight intersections (I did)
2) Think that perhaps the person behind me, if there is one, is going to see two consecutive green lights but not realize that the second one was just red a moment ago, and thus traffic is going to be nearly stopped at the second green light. (I did)
3) Look in the rear-view mirror for such person (I did, and it was instantly clear he was going too fast to stop)
4) If I had any time remaining, pull over to an empty lane beofre impact (there was none; plus this is dangerous 'cause it da*n well better be empty and you likely won't have the time to confirm 100%) or brace myself (that's all I could do).

Whammmo....

ETA: All that being said, I agree that the vast majority of accidents could have been avoided by the "innocent" party's alertness/defensiveness while driving. But certainly not 100%.

Just thinking

10th May 2006, 08:35 AM

... I know I'm steady at 70, but this guy could be oscillating between 50 and 90 ...

I may be wrong, but if I correctly recall it has been documented that speed variance is a leading cause of accidents -- it falls under the more general category of inattentiveness.

Solitaire

12th May 2006, 10:07 AM

#!#
#!# | |
#!#
#!#
#!# @ |*|
#!#

Normally you see the state trouper (@) on the side of the road talking to a driver (|*|) sitting in a car with the trouper's car (| |) ahead of the driver's car usually with the lights off. Well one day I came across this situation.

#!#
#!# |*| @
#!#
#!# \ \
#!#

I first see the flashing lights of the troupers car and notice that it pointed as if it'll take off that very second. Alarmed I slow down, but notice as I pass no one in the car. Later I see the drivers car on the shoulder, but the trouper isn't on the shoulder. He's on the grass talking to the driver through the open passenger door. Imagine, you have to lean over to open the door, hand anything over, even talk with the guy. Horrid! They should retire him from service.

bigred

12th May 2006, 10:23 AM

But I'm not in any danger at that point. I've slowed down until the too-short distance between me and the car behind me has become a safe stopping distance. And I firmly believe that if most people found that tailgating caused their progress to slow instead of improve, that there would be a lot less tailgating. Result: safer roads.
:boggled: I have no idea how that is supposed to make any sense whatsoever.

bigred

12th May 2006, 10:25 AM

What pisses me off the most hasn't been mentioned yet. First, there are those who think it's ok to pass a school bus despite the flashing red lights.

Second, I can't stand people who don't pull over for an ambulance or firetruck. Where could you possible be going that is more important than where they are going?! I only hope that one day, the firetruck that is stuck behind you was headed to your house.
Right on and amen, although I'll stop short of truly wishing for anyone's house to be on fire (tempting though it may be). I can't believe no one mentioned them either. Probably the worst of all.

bigred

12th May 2006, 10:30 AM

just as there are cases where you can hit a motorist squarely in the rear of his car and not at all be at fault.
Not in the POS state of Virginia there aint. :mad:

bigred

12th May 2006, 10:32 AM

You ought to be maintaining sufficent following distance that this isn't a problem.
Technically, that is true.

Now can we come back from Nevernever Land and discuss things in the real world? :rolleyes:

When traffic is heavy, pretty much EVERYONE follows too close. Tailgaters, pokey people, whatever.

bigred

12th May 2006, 10:33 AM

It is not up to private citizens to enforce the speed limit by blocking a lane.Wow another one who gets it.

bigred

12th May 2006, 10:35 AM

Likewise in virginia...

However, undercover cops (with about 16 antennas poking out of their crown victoria) will drive in the left lane 10 miles over the speed limit and wait for someone to pull up behind. They will be nice and move to the right allowing the person behind to pass. Then they'll pull out and turn on their hidden blues.

It's funny to watch.BS. It's annoying as hell to watch.

I've lived in VA many years and with rare exception, every cop I've ever encountered - whether due to getting pulled over, with someone puller over, met in an "unofficial" way, etc - was an a-hole. State cops are the worst by far. Their stupidity is surpassed only by their arrogance.

bigred

12th May 2006, 11:02 AM

I have absolutely zero sympathy for reckless drivers, who tailgate, and then blame their near-crashes on others. I'm perfectly aware that other people are bad drivers. Avoid an accident is your own responsability, no one else's. Drive defensively, avoid tailgating, and stop whining that you can't drive down the road like a bat out of hell, as though you own the road, because you don't.

A good driver does not tailgate! A good driver is patient! Remember that many drivers aren't purposely trying to annoy you, they are just really poor drivers. Being aggressive with them is stupid and asking for trouble.
I would LOVE to get in front of you people preaching this and do about, oh, 30 mph in 55 zone. :cool: I wonder how long you would practice what you preach?

bigred

12th May 2006, 11:04 AM

Funny how it took so long to get there.

Now you know how it feels to be behind you in the passing lane. Just a bit maddening, isn't it?

LMAO

That's funny. :)

Rob Lister

12th May 2006, 11:06 AM

I've been stopped for speeding in virginia about 5 times in 25 years.
I've received 1 ticket and 4 warnings.

If you're polite, they're polite.

bigred

12th May 2006, 01:16 PM

Here's another little behavior that I believe should be eligible for the death penalty upon conviction in a court of law: refusing to take a plainly available and legal right turn on red while others are waiting to do the same.
Amen brutha.

Yes, I know turning right on red optional.
Not sure but I don't think sitting at a red light intending to turn right but not doing so is "optional" here. It will also get a serious blast from my horn from the mindless morons who do so.

These people remind me once again that stupidity should be painful.

bigred

12th May 2006, 01:19 PM

BPSCG

12th May 2006, 01:48 PM

I've been stopped for speeding in virginia about 5 times in 25 years.
I've received 1 ticket and 4 warnings.

If you're polite, they're polite.Stopped once in 22 years, doing at least 90 on I-64 going west out of Charlottesville. I was polite and respectful, trooper was polite and professional and gave me a ticket for 84 mph. Found out later if he'd made it out for 85 mph, it would have been reckless driving (speed limit +20).

Bigred, it sounds to me like you need to start thinking about who's in control of the situation when a cop pulls you over.

WildCat

12th May 2006, 01:48 PM

WildCat

12th May 2006, 01:58 PM

Avoid an accident is your own responsability, no one else's.
See the Jeep in that pic? It's mine, 2 days ago. Parked legally on the street, when the mini-van w/ the unlicensed, uninsured driver turned in front of the Chevy which was driven by an uninsured driver.

I say it's their responsibility, but of course they're not responsible. So my insurance gets to pay, and I get to pay the $500 deductible. Joy! :mad:

That's the driver of the Chevy, crying to her mama on the phone. It was mama's car.
eta: The woman on the right in the back, not the cop!

http://home.mindspring.com/~turniton/wreck/wreck03.JPG

BPSCG

12th May 2006, 02:59 PM

See the Jeep in that pic? It's mine, 2 days ago. Parked legally on the street, when the mini-van w/ the unlicensed, uninsured driver turned in front of the Chevy which was driven by an uninsured driver.

I say it's their responsibility, but of course they're not responsible. So my insurance gets to pay, and I get to pay the $500 deductible. Joy! :mad:

That's the driver of the Chevy, crying to her mama on the phone. It was mama's car. Serves you right for driving an SUV.

Just kidding. Where's the minivan driver? On his way to the hospital, I hope.

Thanks for the heads-up how this can happen. If I ever get hit by an uninsured driver, I'm going to go into his car and start removing anything of value I can find. With luck, I'll find the title in the glove box.

WildCat

12th May 2006, 04:14 PM

Just kidding. Where's the minivan driver? On his way to the hospital, I hope.
No, he went to jail because of no license/no insurance. Got out a few hours later, don't know if he'll ever be heard from again. Very common Mexican name, "John Smith" for comparison purposes.

Thanks for the heads-up how this can happen. If I ever get hit by an uninsured driver, I'm going to go into his car and start removing anything of value I can find. With luck, I'll find the title in the glove box.
Best that would get me is $40 from Victory Auto Wreckers (http://www.flatalbert.com/mg/victoryauto.mov).

Jocko

12th May 2006, 04:57 PM

Best that would get me is $40 from Victory Auto Wreckers (http://www.flatalbert.com/mg/victoryauto.mov).

Not bad. My one dance with them went like this:

Me: I've got a '77 Lemans that's finally given up the ghost. It's a collector's item, I'm sure the parts will be worth a ton-

VAW: 20 bucks.

Me: Er, but each tire is worth more than-

VAW 20 bucks.

Me: BUT MY DOORS ARE STILL ATTACHED! YOU GAVE THAT HIPPIE 80 BUCKS FOR HIS IMPALA, AND HIS DOORS WERE FALLING OFF!

VAW: 10 bucks. Any more discussion?

Me: *Sigh* Okay, I'll take it.

BPSCG

12th May 2006, 05:04 PM

Not bad. My one dance with them went like this:See, they've done this before, I'll bet, and you haven't...

Jocko

12th May 2006, 06:03 PM

See, they've done this before, I'll bet, and you haven't...

Yup, A tough lesson I won't repeat. I'm keeping the '75 Lemans. In fact, I'm about to close on a quadruple plot at Calvary so I can be buried in it. Turns out the Vatican never thought of writing in a specific prohibition.

Suckers. :D

bigred

12th May 2006, 07:49 PM

Stopped once in 22 years, doing at least 90 on I-64 going west out of Charlottesville. I was polite and respectful, trooper was polite and professional and gave me a ticket for 84 mph. Found out later if he'd made it out for 85 mph, it would have been reckless driving (speed limit +20).

Bigred, it sounds to me like you need to start thinking about who's in control of the situation when a cop pulls you over.
key words there perhaps: "going west out of Charlottesville." most VA cops I've dealt with were in central/southeastern parts of VA, can't speak for DC area or far west VA so much.

PS I'm no rocket scientist, but you appear to have me confused w/a moron and/or someone who has no clue about how to deal w/the situation. I've never been anything other than extremely polite/respectful/etc. It's mostly the state troopers who are the worst though.

Just thinking

12th May 2006, 09:54 PM

Not in the POS state of Virginia there aint. :mad:

Try this one on for size ...

You're coming up on a slow motorist in the right lane of a 2-lane highway (each way) and you decide to pass in the left lane. You properly get into the left lane and start to pass ... but just before you reach his bumper one lane over, he jumps into your lane (his left) and slams on the brakes. There is no way you can avoid hitting him in the rear, and you did absolutely nothing wrong, improper or unsafe.

Still your fault? -- I'd check that situation out.

Just thinking

12th May 2006, 10:06 PM

I played leap-frog w/ a guy like this for 100 miles once in S. Dakota. My cruise control was on the whole time.

Wife: "Why are you tailgating this guy?!"

Me: "He won't maintain a steady speed -- I can't pace him!"

Silly Green Monkey

12th May 2006, 10:07 PM

aerosolben

12th May 2006, 11:41 PM

Those accident traps where your car is bracketed by three cars, the lead of which slams on its brakes when you can't possibly get away will still be your fault. We're supposed to be able to stop in time no matter what. Hardly fair.
Sure it is. You should be following at a distance which gives you time to stop safely. If you get in an accident in this scenario, either you weren't paying attention or you were too close. There are many legitimate reason to slam on one's brakes, even if they aren't apparant to the driver behind you.

Just thinking

13th May 2006, 07:45 AM

Sure it is. You should be following at a distance which gives you time to stop safely. If you get in an accident in this scenario, either you weren't paying attention or you were too close.

Now ... could you have avoided a crash in my scenario? (Post 332)

bigred

13th May 2006, 08:58 AM

Try this one on for size ...

You're coming up on a slow motorist in the right lane of a 2-lane highway (each way) and you decide to pass in the left lane. You properly get into the left lane and start to pass ... but just before you reach his bumper one lane over, he jumps into your lane (his left) and slams on the brakes. There is no way you can avoid hitting him in the rear, and you did absolutely nothing wrong, improper or unsafe.

Still your fault? -- I'd check that situation out.
Yep.

Just thinking

13th May 2006, 09:06 AM

Yep.

Yep to what? Are you agreeing to my assertion that there is no way to avoid the collision; that it's entirely the bozo's fault for cutting in front of someone and then slamming on the brakes? Or, if it be the passer's fault, how is it avoidable? -- and how is a law written to account for that? Plus, just what violation was made by the passer?

Please explain how and why whatever it is you're agreeing to.

Plus -- not exactly the same scenario, but here (http://www.mylawyer.com/guide.asp?level=2&id=423) is a case where someone gets rear-ended and is found at fault ... I was backing out of a parking space and was hit. Whose fault is it?

A driver backing his vehicle into traffic has the duty to yield the right of way and make certain his sight is not impeded. For example, if you are backing out of a parking space, you have the duty to yield to vehicles traveling in the roadway behind the parking spaces.

bigred

13th May 2006, 09:24 AM

Yes, it's my fault. In VA, you hit someone in the rear, it's your fault. Period. There may be rare exceptions such as you describe, but they are very rare, if they exist at all.

Just thinking

13th May 2006, 09:48 AM

There may be rare exceptions such as you describe, but they are very rare, if they exist at all.

Well, that's my whole point ... it's not a 100% every time given. And rare or not, if it's you in the incident, you will be checking the laws out very thoroughly indeed. ;)

aerosolben

13th May 2006, 09:57 AM

Now ... could you have avoided a crash in my scenario? (Post 332)
As soon as you see him heading for your lane, you should immediately slow down - the more potentially dangerous the situation (he's really close, he swerves in, he's traveling at a much slower velocity), the more abruptly you should reduce your speed and increase the distance between you. Thus, if he slams on his brakes, you're already prepared and won't hit him.

I think that would cover most versions of your situation. There's probably ways to make it more extreme so even those don't prevent an accident, but I think that would make it more akin to the "backing out of a parking space" scenario. That is more "leaping in front of traffic" and may not even qualify as a "rear-ending" in my book.

bigred

13th May 2006, 10:19 AM

Well, that's my whole point ... it's not a 100% every time given.
:rolleyes: For all intents and purposes, yes, it is.

Just thinking

13th May 2006, 11:59 AM

As soon as you see him heading for your lane, you should immediately slow down - the more potentially dangerous the situation (he's really close, he swerves in, he's traveling at a much slower velocity), the more abruptly you should reduce your speed and increase the distance between you. Thus, if he slams on his brakes, you're already prepared and won't hit him.

I think that would cover most versions of your situation. There's probably ways to make it more extreme so even those don't prevent an accident, but I think that would make it more akin to the "backing out of a parking space" scenario. That is more "leaping in front of traffic" and may not even qualify as a "rear-ending" in my book.

The scenario I described can happen all in the time your foot comes off the accelerator and touches the brakes -- in other words, no time at all. Remember, you're passing this guy, so you already have a velocity greater than his. It is your intention to safely pass as quickly as possible and get back in the right lane. He essentially is leaping out in front of you and causing an accident -- just not from a driveway.

Just thinking

13th May 2006, 12:01 PM

:rolleyes: For all intents and purposes, yes, it is.

Come on, Red ... admit it. There are ways to rear-end some one and not be at fault. It's OK. ;)

aerosolben

13th May 2006, 06:16 PM

He essentially is leaping out in front of you and causing an accident.
Right, that's what I said. I was just pointing out that I consider this to be something other than standard "rear-ending" (notwithstanding contact to the posterior of the vehicle).

Rob Lister

13th May 2006, 06:21 PM

Come on, Red ... admit it. There are ways to rear-end some one and not be at fault. It's OK. ;)

the point (in virgina) is this: if you rear-end someone, the presumption is that you are at fault. You can turn it around but the burden is upon you and you alone to prove otherwise. There are cases where this is done, especially with professional 'accident victims', but it is rare.

I think that is more fair than any other way.

Just thinking

13th May 2006, 07:30 PM

... the point (in virgina) is this: if you rear-end someone, the presumption is that you are at fault.

Yes ... agreed; and I think that sort of reasoning goes beyond Virginia. Unfortunately it makes some believe that this is the case 100% of the time no matter what happened -- both to ordinary Joes (you and me) as well as the Police.

bigred

14th May 2006, 07:20 AM

Come on, Red ... admit it. There are ways to rear-end some one and not be at fault. It's OK. ;)
You seem to be talking about logically vs legally in the state of VA.

Two VERY different things. :cool:

Rob Lister

14th May 2006, 08:15 AM

No, not really.

It's a prima facie case in virgina, as it is in most, if not all, states.

You must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you were not at fault.

It is not only legal, it's logical.

It is also abused by professional accident victims that know how to make you rear end them. In some states you can use past law-suits as evidence of the liklihood of the act being intentional on the part of the person you hit. I'm not sure about virginia.

ImaginalDisc

14th May 2006, 08:21 AM

See the Jeep in that pic? It's mine, 2 days ago. Parked legally on the street, when the mini-van w/ the unlicensed, uninsured driver turned in front of the Chevy which was driven by an uninsured driver.

I say it's their responsibility, but of course they're not responsible. So my insurance gets to pay, and I get to pay the $500 deductible. Joy! :mad:

That's the driver of the Chevy, crying to her mama on the phone. It was mama's car.
eta: The woman on the right in the back, not the cop!

http://home.mindspring.com/~turniton/wreck/wreck03.JPG

My mother's car was hit while parked in front of her house too. That's part of the reason why an accident is your own responsability to avoid, the monetary cost will probably come out of your own insurance, whatever happens.

bigred

14th May 2006, 09:28 AM

No, not really.

It's a prima facie case in virgina, as it is in most, if not all, states.

You must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you were not at fault.

It is not only legal, it's logical.
It's not at all logical. The burden of proof should not automatically be on the person coming up from the rear REGARDLESS of circumstances.

Rob Lister

14th May 2006, 09:32 AM

Well, it is logical.

You hit them from behind.

Don't do that.

Your assertion is "they made me do it"

Fine. Now prove it.

bigred

14th May 2006, 09:38 AM

Well, it is logical.

You hit them from behind.

Don't do that.

Your assertion is "they made me do it"

Fine. Now prove it.
I'd bother with this if it was worth it, but I've swam around this bait long enough.

Rob Lister

14th May 2006, 09:59 AM

Fair enough.

about 6 years ago I was travling on a very busy section of highway that merges onto 58 just outside of Suffolk heading toward VB.

It was a 5 lane road where everyone is travelng about 65 or 70 (in a 55).

It's dusk, most all have their lights on already.

Right smack-dab in the middle lane there is a car fully stopped, without lights, without hazard blinkers. Broke down. The idiot driver is standing beside the car.

You can guess what HAD to happen.

It happened about 1/4 mile ahead of me (in plain) sight.

SMACK!

Then, obviously...

SMACK, SMACK, SMACK, SMACK, SMACK, SMACK, SMACK.

Now...each smack paid for smack n-1, up to the point where n=0. He paid for smack 1 and, lost his license to boot. Even though he got rear-ended, he was found at fault.

eta: I got to testify!

Just thinking

14th May 2006, 10:45 AM

... The idiot driver is standing beside the car.

See ... there is a God. He made this idiot live (who normally would have been wiped out) in order to get immediate punnishment. Of course, that same God is cruel in letting all those cars pile up like that.

;)

Rob Lister

14th May 2006, 11:28 AM

Since I was somewhat involved (a witness), I got to find out why he was stopped right in the middle of the road, without lights, at dusk.

These are 'findings of fact'...

[all] His lights were non-functional.
He had no inspection sticker.
He was traveling in that lane because the others were to slow.
His engine died and the car started to slow down.
He thought it would 'catch again' as it usually did.
It didn't.
he slowly rolled to a stop in in that lane (the other lanes were going to fast for him to move over and merge)
he !!! got out to fix the engine (as he had done many times before)

Smack. smack, smack, smack, smack, smack, smack

A horse whipping would suffice.

Just thinking

14th May 2006, 09:46 PM

These are 'findings of fact'...

[all] His lights were non-functional.
He had no inspection sticker.
He was traveling in that lane because the others were to slow.
His engine died and the car started to slow down.
He thought it would 'catch again' as it usually did.
It didn't.
he slowly rolled to a stop in in that lane (the other lanes were going to fast for him to move over and merge)
he !!! got out to fix the engine (as he had done many times before).

It really makes you wonder how someone who thinks the way he did could survive beyond puberty.

Just thinking

14th May 2006, 09:52 PM

aerosolben

14th May 2006, 10:06 PM

Ever have this happen? ... (of course)

You're the fourth or fifth person in line stopped for a red light. The light turns green and everyone (including you) starts accelerating. Then out of nowhere you find the guy in front of you just comes to a stop, because the guy in front of him did so, and so forth. Why does this happen? --- even if you're on a highway where you can only go straight across the intersection (no turns).
Likely this is because someone in the line accelerated too quickly (anticipating the acceleration of the guy in front of him), and had to stop suddenly because it didn't work out. The sudden stop then ripples down the line (and gets magnified on the way).

I suspect this is probably caused by the same phenomenon as traffic waves (http://www.amasci.com/amateur/traffic/traffic1.html). Check the site for how to mitigate the problem.

Silly Green Monkey

15th May 2006, 12:05 AM

That happens fairly frequently at one major intersection, mostly because someone parked on the other side of the intersection has decided to pull out of their space and they were quick enough to get most of the way out before the cars reached them. I've never seen an accident there though, everyone pulls through that light rather slowly.

bigred

16th May 2006, 09:22 AM

I don't think this one has been mentioned yet - not surprising as it's pretty infrequent, yet not always done by drunks as you'd imagine....oh the colossal stupidity of some....

Swerving in and out of two lanes ie not abruptly, but just sort of casually gliding a bit over into the "wrong" lane as they drive down the road.

Scary in more ways than one.

BPSCG

16th May 2006, 09:49 AM

PS I'm no rocket scientist, but you appear to have me confused w/a moron and/or someone who has no clue about how to deal w/the situation. I've never been anything other than extremely polite/respectful/etc. It's mostly the state troopers who are the worst though.Okay - I'll take your word for it. I have a friend, though, who's told me a number of times that if a cop ever stops him (fortunately, he doesn't drive very fast), he'd make sure the cop understood who is the boss and who is simply the public servant.

O....kay....

Driving to work today, doing 65 in a 45. Not as egregious as it might sound at first; it's pretty typical for that stretch of road.

Nissan 350 ZX comes roaring up behind me, sits on my ass. Well, I'm passing a guy while this is going on, but as soon as I felt it was safe, I started to pull over to the center lane to let A.J. go by. Well, I obviously didn't move fast enough for him, because he jumped in the space between me and the car I had just passed and blew past me in the center lane, forcing me to cut back into the left lane to avoid a collision.

I hope he drives like that all the time, so he can remove himself from the gene pool before the next election.

Just thinking

16th May 2006, 10:09 AM

... Swerving in and out of two lanes ie not abruptly, but just sort of casually gliding a bit over into the "wrong" lane as they drive down the road.

Scary in more ways than one.

Even worse when these types are going slow ... slow enough that you just have to pass them. Very unsettling indeed.

Also, it sometimes happens that these are the ones known as phantom drivers. You know, when you can't see anyone behind the wheel from your vantage point behind said vehicle.

malbui

16th May 2006, 10:30 AM

Driving back from Lausanne to Geneva in a pretty serious thunderstorm, with the rain lashing down and spray restricting visibility. Didn't stop whole streams of cars barrelling along at 130kph or more, close enough together to read the dealers' names off the rear licence plate holders. I wonder what some people use for brains.

Babylon Sister

16th May 2006, 03:24 PM

I drive a Jeep. A BRIGHT RED Jeep. It's so red I like to think of it as midlife-crisis red. But apparently, to quite a few people out there, its an invisible red Jeep. Especially in parking lots. Just because my Jeep is only about 1/4 the size of your Hummer, it doesn't mean that I can't be in the parking lot. You do NOT own the lot and you are NOT the only person driving in it. PUT THE F***ING CELL PHONE DOWN AND PAY ATTENTION!

Ok. I'm finished now. Thanks.

Solitaire

16th May 2006, 05:03 PM

This reminds me. The light turns green, in the car ahead of me the driver is on a cell phone. I wait. The car behind me honks his horn repeatedly. Soon the honking driver becomes the topic of conversation in the car ahead of me. Sigh. The car's horn has become a pacifier that blows rather than sucks.

Most interesting thing I saw on the road was dust. I was in a slow lane in stopped traffic. The car ahead of me had opened up a bit of space in front of him, allowing another car to pass and make a left turn. He'd look in his rear view mirror and side view mirror and gesture for the other car to move forward. Unfortunately, one cannot see too far down the road and cars in the fast lane were whizzing by. So a collision happened and sparkling dust exploded into the air everywhere. So if you're in the fast lane and a bunch of cars a stopped in the slow lane, don't be surprised if one pops out diagonally.

bigred

17th May 2006, 07:37 AM

it doesn't mean that I can't be in the parking lot. You do NOT own the lot and you are NOT the only person driving in it. PUT THE F***ING CELL PHONE DOWN AND PAY ATTENTION!

It is rare that someone says or does something so unbelievably stupid and/or obnoxious at the same time that I am speechless, but you reminded me of one. I was going thru a parking lot in sort of an outdoor mall area - some mindless b***** had started to pull out while yapping on her phone and stopped there, still yapping (ie blocking me from coming the opposite direction and taking her spot or even just moving past her). After a few moments I finally honked my horn...after I got up next to her she gives me a PO'd look and goes "I was talking on the phone!!"

I had 100 things to scream in her face but was so amazed at the depth of both her stupidity and inconsideration, nothing came out. Boy I hated that.

Babylon Sister

17th May 2006, 10:26 AM

It is rare that someone says or does something so unbelievably stupid and/or obnoxious at the same time that I am speechless, but you reminded me of one. I was going thru a parking lot in sort of an outdoor mall area - some mindless b***** had started to pull out while yapping on her phone and stopped there, still yapping (ie blocking me from coming the opposite direction and taking her spot or even just moving past her). After a few moments I finally honked my horn...after I got up next to her she gives me a PO'd look and goes "I was talking on the phone!!"

I had 100 things to scream in her face but was so amazed at the depth of both her stupidity and inconsideration, nothing came out. Boy I hated that.

This is exactly the situation that prompted my post! She was in one of those god-awful yellow Hummers. I didn't have any problem telling her off.

ETA: Oh man! How could I have forgotten! She was in a handicapped space!

Just thinking

17th May 2006, 01:25 PM

... ETA: Oh man! How could I have forgotten! She was in a handicapped space!

Nothing against the hadicapped, and I don't mean for this to sound cruel --- but is it just me, or does it seem there are far more spaces allowed for the handicapped than are actually needed?

gnome

17th May 2006, 03:06 PM

BPSCG

17th May 2006, 04:24 PM

Nothing against the hadicapped, and I don't mean for this to sound cruel --- but is it just me, or does it seem there are far more spaces allowed for the handicapped than are actually needed?Yes.

Once upon a time, I thought handicapped spaces were a good idea, for the occasional person with crutches, or the elderly and frail, and so on.

Now I see "handicapped" people getting out of their vehicles and the only apparent problem I can see is one that would properly be addressed by more walking, not less.

"I'm going to eat myself into getting a handicapped tag for my car or die in the attempt!"

bigred

18th May 2006, 10:17 AM

Nothing against the hadicapped, and I don't mean for this to sound cruel --- but is it just me, or does it seem there are far more spaces allowed for the handicapped than are actually needed?
ABSOLUTELY YES. They are usually empty around here, and I don't think I have ever seen a place w/more than 1 or 2 where they were all used.

And really, if you're so handicapped that it's critical to park close, I have to wonder if most should be driving anyway.....

gnome

18th May 2006, 10:29 AM

Yes.

Once upon a time, I thought handicapped spaces were a good idea, for the occasional person with crutches, or the elderly and frail, and so on.

Now I see "handicapped" people getting out of their vehicles and the only apparent problem I can see is one that would properly be addressed by more walking, not less.

"I'm going to eat myself into getting a handicapped tag for my car or die in the attempt!"

I admit with you that there is surely some abuse. However, I want to make the point that there are some people that need handicapped spaces that do not have a visible disability. For example, I have a friend with a condition I believe is called Lupus erythematosus. She can walk normally (most of the time) but suffers from joint pain. I think it's appropriate that she have access to handicapped spaces.

BPSCG

18th May 2006, 10:37 AM

I admit with you that there is surely some abuse. However, I want to make the point that there are some people that need handicapped spaces that do not have a visible disability. To be sure. And there are also a lot of people - more than you probably would care to believe - who regard being handicapped or disabled to be the crowning success of their lives. When I worked at SSA, taking applications for disability benefits, I had to ask people about their physical limitations. You'd be amazed how many people with back injuries, diabetes, arthritis, or other impairments caused by eating 5000 calories a day for twenty years would tell me, "I can't do anything," with a kind of bemused satisfaction. Of course, I had to get them to be a little more specific ("You can't do anything? I bet you can lift a fork to your mouth..."), but their overall attitude was, "Finally, I'm too disabled to work; now I can just sit back and relax..."

That handicapped spot is what they've been working towards all their lives.

aerosolben

18th May 2006, 10:53 AM

To be sure. And there are also a lot of people - more than you probably would care to believe - who regard being handicapped or disabled to be the crowning success of their lives.
Sure, but I don't see what your point is. Do you propose a polygraph test to determine if they like being handicapped before giving them their sticker? Should we take away benefits from those who truly need them (through no fault of their own) to prevent others from intentionally pursuing disability?

gnome

18th May 2006, 11:06 AM

To be sure. And there are also a lot of people - more than you probably would care to believe - who regard being handicapped or disabled to be the crowning success of their lives.
It's sad but true, that the world probably contains many more deadbeats than I want to believe. The question is, what to do about it?

ETA: I have a lot of respect for people that can do the kind of work that helps the needy--I wonder if I'd have the stomach for regular dealings... I've nothing against the needy... but the occasional "bad apple" gaming the system would certainly depress me, and I'd worry that I couldn't keep my heart in it, and maintain my compassion.

Sometimes I think that if I ever got really involved with a charity, I'd be better off sticking with animals.

jimlintott

18th May 2006, 11:13 AM

Handicapped spots.

Not always is it the driver of the vehicle who has the handicap. An elderley man may have one (a handicap sticker) on his car because his wife is handicapped. He may be picking her up from the doctor and so you see a healthy person parking in a handicap spot. Although a common abuse is for this type of person to use a handicapped spot even though the handicapped person isn't with them.

Here is good one I saw the other day.

I'm following this woman down a city street and she suddenly starts slowing down and then signals a left turn. My stupid detector goes off because there is no where to turn left. I start thinking "you're going to turn right aren't you?" She does, she turns right and then makes an illegal U-turn to the left. I guess she was signalling the U-turn even though she turned right before doing the U-turn.

It's a good thing she clearly had her "I'm an idiot" sign up.

I keep hearing that in the U.S. there is a campaign to increase seat belt usage. Are there really that many people that are too stupid to wear their belts. It's virtually a non-issue here. Almost everyone buckles up although I've seen several unrestrained children lately. You should lose your license forever for driving with unrestrained children in the car.

BPSCG

18th May 2006, 11:14 AM

Sure, but I don't see what your point is. Do you propose a polygraph test to determine if they like being handicapped before giving them their sticker? Should we take away benefits from those who truly need them (through no fault of their own) to prevent others from intentionally pursuing disability?No; all these problems will vanish when I take over.

aerosolben

18th May 2006, 12:23 PM

No; all these problems will vanish when I take over.
And from this day on, the official language will be Swedish. Silence! In addition to that, all citizens will be required to change their underwear every half-hour. Underwear will be worn on the outside so we can check. Furthermore, all children under 16 years old are now... 16 years old!

bigred

18th May 2006, 12:53 PM

You're supposed to have either a handicapped license or tag on your mirror. If not, it's probably a deadbeat.

And I have called the cops on such people more than once...

Aurelian

18th May 2006, 01:06 PM

People with bumper stickers that aren't worth reading. This is AFTER you've tailgated your way to reading the small print in hard-to-read colors, thinking there might be something entertaining or inspired.

I *hate* that!

Just thinking

18th May 2006, 09:51 PM

To be sure there are (no doubt) handicap deadbeats ... but my main point was that there seems to be far too many handicap spaces -- including the ones taken up by deadbeats, as there are always (by me -- every time) more unused spaces for the handicapped than ones with cars in them.

Also, I believe (as told by a friend who would know) that in NJ one simply has to be above a certain age to automatically qualify for a handicap sticker/mirror card.