Muslim in Space

[sophia8]

Looks I'm the first one to point out that the turbaned head photoshopped onto the astronaut in the accompanying picture actually belongs to a Sikh. I don't expect such ignorance from JREF.
And why doesn't somebody contact that Muslim would-be astronaut and actually ask him about how he plans to observe his religion in space? He must have thought about it.

[deBergerac]

I was also a bit surprised of the face and equally surprised that Randi does not know that it is already possible for Muslims to disregard the rules of their religion if the situation so require.
Religions are sometimes more practically oriented than what he gives them credit for.
If a Muslim is travelling and it is not possible to pray it is not a problem and circling around the Earth must be considered travelling, although in a way Mohammed never could have guessed.

[sophia8]

In fact, I was pretty offended by that whole item. It was just a cheap crack at religion with no redeeming features.
Concentrate on the quacks who are doing real harm, Randi!

[The Painter]

If you were offended by that, then you should be offended by nearly all statement on religion. I wasn’t offended, but I’m an atheist.

This one is satirical comedy. Tongue in cheek. The idea that going into space is going to make them ““Islam Hadhari,” or civilized Islam” is ridiculous. If they want to be civilized, stop killing people in the name Allah.

[deBergerac]

It may have been satire but it is not good satire. I really do not think anyone could be offended by it but that does not make it witty. It is just a straw man and something that could just as well have been dropped from the commentary.

Indeed the idea that education could lead to a more civilized society is stupid! ;)

[brodski]

It may have been satire but it is not good satire. I really do not think anyone could be offended by it but that does not make it witty. It is just a straw man and something that could just as well have been dropped from the commentary.

Indeed the idea that education could lead to a more civilized society is stupid! ;)
But if you are going to attempt to satirise a religion, at least try and get some of the details right. Turban wearing is an observance for Sikhs, not Muslims, it would be like satirising Christian fundamentalists in space by depicting them wearing a yarmulke instead of a helmet. Not funny, just incorrect. Sikhism has nothing to do with Islam, other than the fact that a lot of Sikhs, and a lot of Muslims come from the Indian sub-continent, and the history of Sikh-Muslim-Hindu relations in that region are less than happy. The image seems to indicate that the JREF has a profound misunderstanding of religion, world politics and history. I would have hoped that they could have done better.

[sophia8]

But if you are going to attempt to satirise a religion, at least try and get some of the details right. Turban wearing is an observance for Sikhs, not Muslims, it would be like satirising Christian fundamentalists in space by depicting them wearing a yarmulke instead of a helmet. Not funny, just incorrect. Sikhism has nothing to do with Islam, other than the fact that a lot of Sikhs, and a lot of Muslims come from the Indian sub-continent, and the history of Sikh-Muslim-Hindu relations in that region are less than happy. The image seems to indicate that the JREF has a profound misunderstanding of religion, world politics and history. I would have hoped that they could have done better.
My point exactly. I can understand Joe Q. Public from Middletown, Ill. mistaking an Eastern-looking guy in a turban for a Muslim. But I expect higher standards here.
And it had no place in the Commentary. What point was it supposed to be making?

[mummymonkey]

Sultan bin Salman bin Abdulaziz al-Saud was the first muslim in space way back in 1985.

[Polaris]

Sultan bin Salman bin Abdulaziz al-Saud was the first muslim in space way back in 1985.

Was that about the same time that a high-level Saudi official refused to believe the world was round?

[KingMerv00]

I just read it for the first time. Here is what I saw:

http://www.randi.org/images/commentary/200604/28muslim.jpg

I don't see a turban. But something about that picture still bothers me. Hmmmm....

[Jeff Wagg]

Looks I'm the first one to point out that the turbaned head photoshopped onto the astronaut in the accompanying picture actually belongs to a Sikh. I don't expect such ignorance from JREF.
And why doesn't somebody contact that Muslim would-be astronaut and actually ask him about how he plans to observe his religion in space? He must have thought about it.

In fairness, the original picture WAS of a Sikh. This was a mistake, and when it was brought to Randi's attention, he substituted it for what you see now. I'd put up a copy of the original, but I overwrote it with the new one. If anyone has a cache of it, please put it up.

[Cleon]

Oh, good, so we substitute a "look at the funny guy with the turban" picture with a not-so-subtle hint that this guy is a terrorist. Randi really ought to know better, this is disgusting.

[epepke]

I believe that it was in the Gateway series where space-faring Muslims wore special watches that indicated the direction of Mecca.

[sat556]

Maybe it would be a good idea to drop the picture altogether?

[Anti_Hypeman]

Something about it bothers me too hmmm .... I got it the head is way out of proportion.

[Jimbo07]

Maybe it would be a good idea to drop the picture altogether?

or the article...

:boxedin:

[T'ai Chi]

I just read it for the first time. Here is what I saw:

http://www.randi.org/images/commentary/200604/28muslim.jpg

I don't see a turban. But something about that picture still bothers me. Hmmmm....

What bothers me, is that it looks like Randi chose to use the head of a terrorist (Zacharias Mossoui I believe) who happens to profess Islam as representative of Muslims in general.

[The Painter]

Maybe it’s just the opposite of Mel Brooks “Jews in Space”. You know Spaceballs. Oh no, it can’t be. Muslims don’t have a sense of humor. Yeah, that’s right, that’s Albert Brooks.

[Outhere]

Muslims in space encounter Pigs In Space from the Muppets?

[Jess]

What bothers me, is that it looks like Randi chose to use the head of a terrorist (Zacharias Mossoui I believe) who happens to profess Islam as representative of Muslims in general.

I missed the earlier incarnation of this particular piece, but what's currently available made me uneasy, chiefly for this reason. The entire thing is pretty offensive, and probably should have not been included in the commentary.

[LTC8K6]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/04/27/wspace27.xml

The problem is actually being addressed seriously, and I find it hilarious.

Religion is regularly skewered here, isn't it?

[Jeff Wagg]

Randi has decided to put the "Sikh" back. He'll be commenting on this whole thing in next week's commentary.

[Manny]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/04/27/wspace27.xml

The problem is actually being addressed seriously, and I find it hilarious.

Religion is regularly skewered here, isn't it?Islam, apparently, is different. Allah is a particularly weak god, and he needs the violent protection of his followers and censorship on the part of his non-followers or he'll cease to exist or something.

[T'ai Chi]

Anyone save the version that had (I believe) Zacharias Mossoui in it?

[geni]

Judaism has already had to deal with the sunrise in space problem. They just stuck to huston time.

[epepke]

Maybe it’s just the opposite of Mel Brooks “Jews in Space”. You know Spaceballs. Oh no, it can’t be. Muslims don’t have a sense of humor. Yeah, that’s right, that’s Albert Brooks.

The Jews in Space trailer was at the end of History of the World Part I, along with Hitler on Ice. Though it did seem in retrospect to be a harbinger of Spaceballs. The best trailer along these lines was the one at the end of Loose Shoes.

[The Painter]

The Jews in Space trailer was at the end of History of the World Part I, along with Hitler on Ice

Of course, you're right. It is the minutia that keeps this place alive.

[Timothy]

The commentary was, at best, a cheap shot. A much more interesting commentary would have been to address how a religion handles practical changes.

Besides, who says that an astronaut experiences a "sunrise" every 90 minutes? A sunrise is when a place on the Earth rotates into view of the Sun once a day, not when a person in a vehicle comes into view of the Sun. Do Muslims in travelling cars moving in and out of the shadows mountains and hills in the early morning or late afternoon constantly pray because they're experiencing dozens of "sunrises" and "sunsets"? Of course not.

There are many more valid reasons to rail against Islam. This one's frankly pretty weak and petty, and does nothing to uphold the credibility or reputation of anyone voicing it.

- Timothy

[mummymonkey]

Just as a point of fact, turbans aren't exclusivley worm by Sikhs. Many men in muslim societies wear headress that could be described as a turban. I'm thinking of places like Oman and Sudan.

[T'ai Chi]

Just as a point of fact, turbans aren't exclusivley worm by Sikhs. Many men in muslim societies wear headress that could be described as a turban. I'm thinking of places like Oman and Sudan.

But they wear a different type of turban:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/lifestyles/links/turbans_27.html

[brodski]

Just as a point of fact, turbans aren't exclusivley worm by Sikhs. Many men in muslim societies wear headress that could be described as a turban. I'm thinking of places like Oman and Sudan. but it is not an act of religious observance, and it is by no means a ubiquitous symbol of Islam, like it is of Sikhism. The example I gave of the yarmulke still stands, would it be appropriate to lampoon American fundamentalist Christians by depicting one in space wearing a skull cap instead of a helmet, justified by the fact that the pope wears one?

[brodski]

Of cource it shoudl also be pointed out, that the man in the photograph is likely neither Sikh (due to the fact he has shaved his beard) nor Muslim, given the style of the Turban.

[epepke]

Of cource it shoudl also be pointed out, that the man in the photograph is likely neither Sikh (due to the fact he has shaved his beard) nor Muslim, given the style of the Turban.

I've seen plenty of shaven Sikhs in the US.

In any event, this is particularly interesting, as the only person who was killed via intolerance in the direct wake of 9/11 was a Sikh.

[mummymonkey]

But they wear a different type of turban:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/lifestyles/links/turbans_27.html

Which kind of proves my point. The person in Randi's picture doesn't look like a Sikh to me.

[epepke]

Of course, you're right. It is the minutia that keeps this place alive.

Ah, but Loose Shoes contains the real minutiae. I seldom meet anyone who has heard of it.

[bjb]

As long as we're discussing minutia, there isn't really a water shortage on the space shuttle. The vehicle has three fuel cells that use oxygen and hydogen to create electricity, with pure water as a byproduct. Some of the water is used by the astronauts for drinking and washing, but so much is produced that excess water is dumped overboard.

Here's a link to more than anyone should know about the shuttle fuel cell system:

http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/technology/sts-newsref/sts-eps.html#sts-fuel-cell

[epepke]

As long as we're discussing minutia, there isn't really a water shortage on the space shuttle. The vehicle has three fuel cells that use oxygen and hydogen to create electricity, with pure water as a byproduct. Some of the water is used by the astronauts for drinking and washing, but so much is produced that excess water is dumped overboard.

Seems a waste.

Now, perhaps they could figure out a way to use urination for thrust, with penis-enlargement as a side-effect.

[T'ai Chi]

Bump, because I'd like to have the second pic Randi had up using the head, I believe of Mussoui, for the Muslim.

Anyone save that pic?

[westphalia]

Sikh issue aside, my only problem with the commentary was its restraint. Christian Fundies and Jews are up for grabs, but heaven help you if you satirize a Muslim.

Please.

[FireGarden]

westphalia
Randi's commentary wasn't a crack at Muslim fundies. It was a crack at how Islam would deal with space travel.

The ignorance shown by representing a Muslim with a Sikh turban is matched, it turns out, with the ignorance of how Muslims deal with similar problems on Earth.

Credit to Randi though, he's accepted a correction to the last point. No mention of style of Turbans, though....

[pipelineaudio]

SLAG FAIRYS remind me of that Chef from south park's voice guy, happy to make fun of religions, as long as theyre christianity but any others woooooo

[T'ai Chi]

Anyone save the original version of the 'Muslim in space' pic that had (I believe) Zacharias Mossoui in it??

[TheChadd]

Personally, I thought it was in bad taste, not the concept of his argument, just the way it was worded. I'm a full-blooded atheist, but I have several muslim friends and I just see it silly to single them out... How do Christian astronauts operate in space on sundays? It's meant to be holy people!!

[Skeptic]

I didn't like this at all for a simple reason. Islam is at war with itself about whether 1,300,000,000 or so people are going to mostly come into the 21st century or into the 7th. In a real sense, the war againt the west is a sideshow to this struggle.

So here we have Muslims who explicitly want to join the 21st century as much as possible, by creating an organization to spread modern Islam, and showing that Islam and modernism are not incompatible, and they use the epitome of technological civilization--manned space flight--to prove this to the world.

These people should be praised, not laughed at. They are, naturally, our allies against the forces of darkness. I bet you anything you want there are already numerous threats on their lives from Islamists who consider them apostates; does Randi really want to add ridicule to this?

Randi, who I usually admire, here did the exact opposite of what he should have done. For if modernity and Islam are so totally incompatible as Randi suggests, then the only way open for a Muslim who isn't willing to give up his belief in Islam is to join the anti-modern forces of bin Laden & co. They, of course, have no problem: they will deal with the conflict between modernity and Islam by killing anybody who'se modern.

Does Randi really want Muslims to reach the conclusion Islam and modernity are incompatible?

[T'ai Chi]

Anyone save the original version of the 'Muslim in space' pic that had (I believe) Zacharias Mossoui in it??

Hmm, I guess no one has the original pic.

[fuelair]

Re: Loose Shoes: heard of, saw, not that impressed - Kentucky Fried, Tunnelvision, the vaguely similar Can I Do it til I need glasses (less satire, more nudity) all funnier. Its' title (part of a joke comment that got a politician removed - and he did need to be - Republican) led to the idea it would be better but... Specifically, I can barely remember it - and no specific skits come to mind whereas KFM and TV had lots of items I still remember!(and I have a copy of the original TV - with the female pope part still in it (Thank you MTV!!!!!) unlike its' issue on videotape).
!

[tracer]

Muslims in space encounter Pigs In Space from the Muppets?
The former would avoid the latter as not being Halal.

[T'ai Chi]

Anyone save the original version of the 'Muslim in space' pic that had (I believe) Zacharias Mossoui in it??

No one saved that pic?

Why, when talking about Muslims, would Z. Mossoui be the first pic that someone would choose?

[RSLancastr]

Why, when talking about Muslims, would Z. Mossoui be the first pic that someone would choose?Here's a thought: At the time of the commentary (April 28), Zacharias Moussaoui was arguably the most prominent Muslim in the news, and his picture was everywhere.

[AWPrime]

Sultan bin Salman bin Abdulaziz al-Saud was the first muslim in space way back in 1985.
Who? A what?

[RSLancastr]

Who? A what?Wikipedia: Sultan bin Salman bin Abdulaziz al-Saud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_bin_Salman_bin_Abdulaziz_al-Saud)

[T'ai Chi]

Here's a thought: At the time of the commentary (April 28), Zacharias Moussaoui was arguably the most prominent Muslim in the news, and his picture was everywhere.

But c'mon now. We're talking about Muslims in space, not terrorists in space.

You have to be quite teh apologetic to believe that was responsible to do. THen you have to ask yourself, if it was OK to do, why did he change the pic?

[fuelair]

Personally, I thought it was in bad taste, not the concept of his argument, just the way it was worded. I'm a full-blooded atheist, but I have several muslim friends and I just see it silly to single them out... How do Christian astronauts operate in space on sundays? It's meant to be holy people!!

Most Christians (i.e. claimants to same) do not go to church,etc except (if at all) on majors like Xnas or Easter so not that big a deal for them - tha's why I wish all religionists were like that - mouth it, follow it in the breech, don't let it rule8 with real life.

[RSLancastr]

You have to be quite teh apologetic to believe that was responsible to do. THen you have to ask yourself, if it was OK to do, why did he change the pic?I said neither. I merely answered your question.

[T'ai Chi]

I said neither. I merely answered your question.

Yes, and it was a pretty silly answer.

[bjb]

Oh well, more personal attacks from You-Know-Who. It's time for me to unsubscribe to this thread.

[T'ai Chi]

"Silly" is a personal attack? It was already used by another person in this thread. Sheesh.

[Rustle]

Sikh issue aside, my only problem with the commentary was its restraint. Christian Fundies and Jews are up for grabs, but heaven help you if you satirize a Muslim.

Please.

QFE

[RSLancastr]

Yes, and it was a pretty silly answer.Thanks for another of your typically well-thought-out deconstructions.

[CFLarsen]

Why, when talking about Muslims, would Z. Mossoui be the first pic that someone would choose?

Here's a thought: At the time of the commentary (April 28), Zacharias Moussaoui was arguably the most prominent Muslim in the news, and his picture was everywhere.

But c'mon now. We're talking about Muslims in space, not terrorists in space.

You have to be quite teh apologetic to believe that was responsible to do. THen you have to ask yourself, if it was OK to do, why did he change the pic?

I said neither. I merely answered your question.

Yes, and it was a pretty silly answer.

Why is that a "pretty silly answer"?

You said "when talking about Muslims". Not just "Muslims in space". You have even linked to a source that described various turbans worn by Muslims. Not just Muslims in space.

RSLancaster's answer was right on the mark. Not "pretty silly" at all.

[RSLancastr]

Thanks for another of your typically well-thought-out deconstructions.This was unneccesary, and I apologize to T'ai Chi for it. I just finished my on-call rotation at work, and haven't had a decent night's sleep in a week. It's no excuse, but led to unneccesary snarkiness.

What I should have said is:

Why is that a "pretty silly answer"?

[T'ai Chi]

I have an idea for a webpage on critical thinking I'd like to put up using that pic. ;)

[CFLarsen]

I have an idea for a webpage on critical thinking I'd like to put up using that pic. ;)
Why is that a "pretty silly answer"?

[Major Billy]

it would be like satirising Christian fundamentalists in space by depicting them wearing a yarmulke instead of a helmet.Catholicism is a satire of Christian fundamentalism?http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/pope/bio/papal/link.pope.castro.jpg

[brodski]

Catholicism is a satire of Christian fundamentalism?http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/pope/bio/papal/link.pope.castro.jpg no,but you did just make my point for me.
If you where to write an article on how crazy it would be for a modern geocentricist to go into orbit, and illustrate it with an astronaut with the pope's head (or any other Christian wearing a yarmulke) you would probably be accused of misusing the point, and misrepresenting at least one religion.

[RSLancastr]

Why is that a "pretty silly answer"?(sound of crickets chirping...)

[T'ai Chi]

No pic yet I guess. No good reply either.

[RSLancastr]

No good reply either.From you? No.

[Axenos]

I just read it for the first time. Here is what I saw:

http://www.randi.org/images/commentary/200604/28muslim.jpg

I don't see a turban. But something about that picture still bothers me. Hmmmm....

Looks like Hulk Hogan...

Axe

[T'ai Chi]

Randi has decided to put the "Sikh" back. He'll be commenting on this whole thing in next week's commentary.

Too bad he decided to not comment on why his original picture had the head of a terrorist (Z. Mussoui (sp) ).

[epepke]

Re: Loose Shoes: heard of, saw, not that impressed - Kentucky Fried, Tunnelvision, the vaguely similar Can I Do it til I need glasses (less satire, more nudity) all funnier.

Amazon Women on the Moon was way better than any of them. Ed Bagley as the Invisible Man--classic. But Loose Shoes had its moments.

[Jeff Wagg]

Too bad he decided to not comment on why his original picture had the head of a terrorist (Z. Mussoui (sp) ).

You've got it wrong.

The original picture was the one that's up now. He changed it to Mussoui because people were complaining that he had a Sikh instead of muslim up there. I believe his logic was that there was no question that Mussoui was a muslim, therfore he was in the clear over the sikh issue.

After the furor over that, he put the sikh image back up and moved on.

That's the story. You can make what you want of it. Consider that what you infer from it can be used to determine your own biases.

[Jeff Wagg]

I have an idea for a webpage on critical thinking I'd like to put up using that pic. ;)

Make your own. How hard can it be?

[T'ai Chi]

He changed it to Mussoui because people were complaining that he had a Sikh instead of muslim up there. I believe his logic was that there was no question that Mussoui was a muslim, therfore he was in the clear over the sikh issue.


So why use a picture of a terrorist? There's still no real explanation of that.

Despite Mussoui being in the news, you think any rational person would think to choose a different one becuase Mussoui is a terrorist.

[T'ai Chi]

Make your own. How hard can it be?

Oh, its not hard at all to make a webpage.

But it is hard without that pic of Mussoui. I don't want to be accused of making up a picture, so I want the original that you and Randi created and used. Do you have it?

[Jeff Wagg]

So why use a picture of a terrorist? There's still no real explanation of that.

Despite Mussoui being in the news, you think any rational person would think to choose a different one becuase Mussoui is a terrorist.

OK, find a picture of a person who is as easily recognizable as a muslim person as Mussoui by the general public and post it ( or a link ) here.

[Jeff Wagg]

Oh, its not hard at all to make a webpage.

But it is hard without that pic of Mussoui. I don't want to be accused of making up a picture, so I want the original that you and Randi created and used. Do you have it?

I don't know if I have it or not, actually. But I see no reason to give it to you even if I do have it. No one is denying that it existed. And if you have a point about critical thinking to illustrate, surely you could make your own and illustrate the point equally well.

[T'ai Chi]

But I see no reason to give it to you even if I do have it.


I have no problems discussing your real or hypothetical refusals in my commentary.

[T'ai Chi]

OK, find a picture of a person who is as easily recognizable as a muslim person as Mussoui by the general public and post it ( or a link ) here.

I ask questions about X, and I basically get the reply 'Betcha you cannot do better than we did with X! Prove you can'. Does this argumentation hold up to logic? Whether I can or not seems to be an irrelevant thing. What is relelvant is why Randi chose that, which is what I politely asked about, and no challenge directed towards me will change any of that.

Although, finding a male or female person easily identified as a Muslim would be easy, certainly easier and rational than just deciding to use a picture of a terrorist for 'recognizibility' reasons. For example, a 10 second Google images for 'Muslim man' showed a top row of potential candidates (and obviosuly do some most basic research to make sure they are appropriate people, anonymous vs. terrorists, for example). A picture of a Muslim woman is even more recognizable and easy to do.

I'd think that when that picture was made and posted that someone would have thought (before it was posted) 'gee, this pic is of a terrorist, and my article is writing about Muslims, and has nothing to do with terrorism at all. I wouldn't want people to think I am equating the two or have really, really bad bias'.

But it might be too much to ask to be unbiased when religion items are in the commentary.

[T'ai Chi]

Back in http://www.randi.org/jr/091701.html

Randi wrote


And, I must add, please do not make the error of thinking that these Taliban-inspired terrorists are typical of the Muslim population. They are exceptions, radicals who are rejected by the followers of Islam.

yet made the error of using a picture of a terrorist to represent Muslims.

[Jeff Wagg]

I ask questions about X, and I basically get the reply 'Betcha you cannot do better than we did with X! Prove you can'. Does this argumentation hold up to logic? Whether I can or not seems to be an irrelevant thing. What is relelvant is why Randi chose that, which is what I politely asked about, and no challenge directed towards me will change any of that.

Although, finding a male or female person easily identified as a Muslim would be easy, certainly easier and rational than just deciding to use a picture of a terrorist for 'recognizibility' reasons. For example, a 10 second Google images for 'Muslim man' showed a top row of potential candidates (and obviosuly do some most basic research to make sure they are appropriate people, anonymous vs. terrorists, for example). A picture of a Muslim woman is even more recognizable and easy to do.

I'd think that when that picture was made and posted that someone would have thought (before it was posted) 'gee, this pic is of a terrorist, and my article is writing about Muslims, and has nothing to do with terrorism at all. I wouldn't want people to think I am equating the two or have really, really bad bias'.

But it might be too much to ask to be unbiased when religion items are in the commentary.

You ask question X of a third party. I can't answer for Randi.

The reason for my excersise was to show that it's not easy to do what I asked, which was to "find a picture of a person who is as easily recognizable as a muslim person as Mussoui by the general public." Your answer shows that you didn't grasp exactly what I was asking.

Randi made the picture; he can defend it if he wishes. He didn't equate muslim with terrorist.. you did. He simply put a picture up of one of the two most recognizable muslims to the US populace (one who was in the news constantly at the time.) I believe you're reading more into Randi's intentions than is there.

So, I'm not going to look for the picture. If I do have it, I wouldn't give it to you anyway. It's not the picture Randi wants associated with that article.

I'm curious though..why wouldn't the picture of the Sikh serve as a lesson in critical thinking? It's less accurate than the Mussoui pic.

[CFLarsen]

For example, a 10 second Google images for 'Muslim man' showed a top row of potential candidates (and obviosuly do some most basic research to make sure they are appropriate people, anonymous vs. terrorists, for example). A picture of a Muslim woman is even more recognizable and easy to do.

I'd think that when that picture was made and posted that someone would have thought (before it was posted) 'gee, this pic is of a terrorist, and my article is writing about Muslims, and has nothing to do with terrorism at all. I wouldn't want people to think I am equating the two or have really, really bad bias'.

But it might be too much to ask to be unbiased when religion items are in the commentary.

If some Muslims advocate that Muslims can't shave, why is this man a Muslim? (http://www.irfwp.org/images/library/muslim%20man.jpg) His skin color? Or perhaps you are saying that those Muslims who advocate that Muslims can't shave are wrong? What kind of Muslim is a real Muslim, then?

See the problem?

Here is one of the images when searching for "Muslim man". (http://www.omdurman.org/crucify.jpg)

First hit when searching for "Muslim woman". (http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/jjokunen/beaten.jpg)

How can you call those photos "candidates"? How are they unbiased?

[Jeff Wagg]

Back in http://www.randi.org/jr/091701.html

Randi wrote



yet made the error of using a picture of a terrorist to represent Muslims.

So the explicit statement he made is less important than what you're reading in to his picture?

[T'ai Chi]

Randi made the picture; he can defend it if he wishes. He didn't equate muslim with terrorist.. you did. He simply put a picture up of one of the two most recognizable muslims to the US populace (one who was in the news constantly at the time.) I believe you're reading more into Randi's intentions than is there.


Common sense says that if one puts up a picture of a terrorist in an article the subject of which is Muslims in general, one is equating the two.

Your argument isn't progressing any, and you have said you won't be cooperative, so I'm forced to drop the issue.

[Jeff Wagg]

Common sense says that if one puts up a picture of a terrorist in an article the subject of which is Muslims in general, one is equating the two.

Your argument isn't progressing any, and you have said you won't be cooperative, so I'm forced to drop the issue.

Mission accomplished.

[Darth Rotor]

What if Muslims in space encounter Pigs In Space from the Muppets?
The Muslims would run away, screaming like little girls.

Consider Funston's use of pig meat in the Philippines as a point of reference.

DR

[T'ai Chi]

Randi's short response I received on why he used the pic of a terrorist in an article about Muslims in general:

"Because he is a Muslim...?"

[ElWampa]

Maybe it’s just the opposite of Mel Brooks “Jews in Space”. You know Spaceballs. Oh no, it can’t be. Muslims don’t have a sense of humor. Yeah, that’s right, that’s Albert Brooks.


I just had to post it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU9QuXNMxY8

SEE! JEWS IN SPACE!

[Dave1001]

Sikh issue aside, my only problem with the commentary was its restraint. Christian Fundies and Jews are up for grabs, but heaven help you if you satirize a Muslim.

Please.

Christian fundies sure, but are jews really up for grabs? My impression is that you want to see really good public satirization of jews off the internet, performed by non-jews, you're going to have to leave the United States. Maybe even the anglosphere. Iran's probably your best bet if you wish to enjoy that type of comedy.

Also Christian fundies complain as much as anyone when they get satirized.

[Ersby]

I only scanned the thread, so sorry if this has been mentioned before, but is Anousheh Ansari a muslim?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5355022.stm

Might be worth keeping an eye on her blog.

[Loss Leader]

Not only was it a bad joke, it was an old joke. This one has been around for at least 30 years:

The first Jewish astronaut goes up in space and is, of course, a huge celebrity in the Jewish world. An interviewer asks him how it felt to see a new sunrise every ninety minutes. "Terrible," he answers. The interviewer is puzzled and asks why it would by terrible. The astronaut replies, "Do you have any idea how many times I hade to daven shachrit, mincha and ma'ariv?"

See? Old and not even very funny.

[T'ai Chi]

http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-09/092206bad.html#i13

"The illustration they used – an obvious PhotoShop product – is regrettable, but the article content is pertinent."

Forgetting he used an even more regrettable photoshopped pic??

[CFLarsen]

http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-09/092206bad.html#i13

"The illustration they used – an obvious PhotoShop product – is regrettable, but the article content is pertinent."

Forgetting he used an even more regrettable photoshopped pic??

Why do you think that?

[T'ai Chi]

Really?

[CFLarsen]

Really?

Look, if you have so much against the picture, why don't you contact Randi directly and voice your concern? He isn't likely to read your complaint here.

You've voiced your concern here. We know what you think. Now, go do something about it.

Or do you just want to complain?

[T'ai Chi]

Why do you have the need to believe that?

[T'ai Chi]

Bump.

Anyone have the original pic that Randi used of the terrorist Moussaoi(sp) 's head on the body of an astronaut to represent Muslim astronauts in general?

(which he then later replaced)

[Spidey13]

No.

Kay?

Thanks.

[T'ai Chi]

Can any Randi follower justify why Randi originally chose the pic of a terrorist?

[quixotecoyote]

Over a year and you still can't get over it. What a waste of text.

[Spidey13]

Can any Randi follower justify why Randi originally chose the pic of a terrorist?

Not my job.

[Foolmewunz]

Common sense says that if one puts up a picture of a terrorist in an article the subject of which is Muslims in general, one is equating the two.

Your argument isn't progressing any, and you have said you won't be cooperative, so I'm forced to drop the issue.

Can any Randi follower justify why Randi originally chose the pic of a terrorist?

Which is it? Drop the issue or dredge up a year-old thread? Once you commit to an action (or an inaction) wouldn't it be advisable to stick to it?

Hoisted by your own petard, again?

Let's see if we can summarize this: You want a pic that Randi posted. Randi and Jeff have both said they're not going to give it to you. You expect someone else to provide it, which assumes that even if we had it, we'd go against the wishes of the two people who are most responsible for the JREF and who have expressly stated that they don't want to give it to you.

Why wouldn't they want to give it to you, T'ai Chi? And why would you want it? Well, to go make a "look how stupid the organized skeptical movement and their head guy are" spot on you website. Golly, I can't figure out why Jeff doesn't rush over and demand that Randi give you a copy.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Troll.

I don't have anything to add. I'm just trying to poke a beehive with a stick.

(everyone just ingore this)

Fixed it for you.

[T'ai Chi]

Do you think incorporating a pic of a Muslim terrorist in an article just about Muslim astronauts is appropriate? If so, why?

[Spidey13]

Damn. Nobody told me this was an essay test. :(