UK government minister: statement on creationism and ID

[Mojo]

From the British Humanist Association website (http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/newsarticleview.asp?article=2175): Jacqui Smith: Creationism and ID not science, cannot be taught in science

Schools Minister Jacqui Smith has stated that the Government is opposed to the teaching of creationism and ‘intelligent design’ in science lessons in British schools.

The BHA had asked her to clarify an answer she had given to a parliamentary question, in which she had said that pupils should be taught about how scientific controversies can arise from different ways of interpreting empirical evidence, and that creationism and ID could be covered in RE lessons, "where pupils are taught to consider opposing theories and come to their own, reasoned conclusions." In her reply she said:

Creationism and Intelligent Design are not included in either the present science programme of study or the revised science programme of study to be implemented in September 2006.

...

Creationism cannot be used as an example of a scientific controversy, as it has no empirical evidence to support it and no underpinning scientific principles or explanations.

...

Intelligent Design is sometimes erroneously advanced as a scientific theory but it has no underpinning scientific principles or explanations supporting it and is not accepted by the international scientific community.’

[capall]

Is there much of a controversy about ID over in the UK? I have never heard any mention of it in the Irish media

[andyandy]

i don't think there's much controversy.....you occasionally get an article by dawkins or some evolutionary biologist printed in the Guardian....but its generally to lament to growing strength of the ID lobby in the US rather than any kind of rallying call for the UK....i guess generally its because the UK isnt a very religious country - like the rest of western europe it's pretty secular in outlook...weekly church attendence is less than 2%....so you have a vast majority for whom religion isnt that important....certainly not enough to get worked up about :)

there's an article on the BBC website from last month about how creationist theories about how the world was made are going to be debated in GCSE science lessons in mainstream secondary schools from next year....


OCR, one of the three main exam boards in England, said that the syllabus was intended to make students aware of scientific controversy.

A spokesperson for the exam board said candidates needed to understand the social and historical context to scientific ideas both pre and post Darwin's theory of evolution.

"Candidates are asked to discuss why the opponents of Darwinism thought the way they did and how scientific controversies can arise from different ways of interpreting empirical evidence," he said.

"Creationism and 'intelligent design' are not regarded by OCR as scientific theories. They are beliefs that do not lie within scientific understanding."

A spokesperson for the Department for Education and Skills further clarified.....

"Neither creationism nor intelligent design are taught as a subject in schools and are not specified in the science curriculum".

so the subject is certainly touched upon in schools but only really to provide a historical context in the development of scientific reasoning.....

and this article about the inclusion of creationist debate on the GCSE syllabus certainly wasnt headline news....in fact i dont think it was really picked up at all.....:)

[capall]

I am originally from Ireland were religion is still pretty strong, I read the papers from back home regularly and I have never heard mention of the whole ID controversy, it seams to be mainly the protestant churches in the US that have a problem with evolution, funny a bit of role reversal the catholic church being more progressive and less dogmatic than some protestant churches.

[geni]

I am originally from Ireland were religion is still pretty strong, I read the papers from back home regularly and I have never heard mention of the whole ID controversy, it seams to be mainly the protestant churches in the US that have a problem with evolution, funny a bit of role reversal the catholic church being more progressive and less dogmatic than some protestant churches.

The catholic church is equaly dogmatic. The difference is that the catholic church has it's head to head clash (of sorts for the most part the church has never been massively anti science) with science over a century ago. Along with haveing to survive in an increaseing secular europe this resulted in church that was rather better at dodgeing around science.

[capall]

The catholic church is equaly dogmatic. The difference is that the catholic church has it's head to head clash (of sorts for the most part the church has never been massively anti science) with science over a century ago. Along with haveing to survive in an increaseing secular europe this resulted in church that was rather better at dodgeing around science.

I don’t see your reasoning, your say there equally dogmatic (I was only taking about ID here I know they have plenty of other crazy beliefs that they stick to without any evidence) but then you say they have changed there tune as a result of previous clashes with science and by trying to stay relevant, that doesn’t sound like sticking to dogma to me.

[geni]

I don’t see your reasoning, your say there equally dogmatic (I was only taking about ID here I know they have plenty of other crazy beliefs that they stick to without any evidence) but then you say they have changed there tune as a result of previous clashes with science and by trying to stay relevant, that doesn’t sound like sticking to dogma to me.

Dogma can change (or in the case of the catholic church be reinterprited). There are different ways of being flexible.

[Zep]

It's very much a non-issue here too. I think there may be a small handful of woo schools teaching creationism as "fact". The only other mention of either creationism or ID seems to have arisen only in discussion of current affairs. US news does penetrate here (the kids have CNN!).

[JimTheBrit]

i don't think there's much controversy.....you occasionally get an article by dawkins or some evolutionary biologist printed in the Guardian....but its generally to lament to growing strength of the ID lobby in the US rather than any kind of rallying call for the UK....i guess generally its because the UK isnt a very religious country - like the rest of western europe it's pretty secular in outlook...weekly church attendence is less than 2%....so you have a vast majority for whom religion isnt that important....certainly not enough to get worked up about :)

That's how the situation used to be until very recently. Within the last couple of months there's been a great increase in the amount of publicity that this "issue" has been receiving, with articles throughout the national press and much dedicated airtime across television and radio. Primarily it's been prompted by the events in Pennsylvania and the visit of creationist John Mackay to schools in the Lancashire area (quickly cancelled). It remains to be seen if this is a flash in the pan or whether the creationist movement can capitalise on the situation to drive their wedge in just a little further. More information on the state of affairs can be found on the website of the Science, Just Science campaign (http://www.justscience.org.uk/).

[Kimpatsu]

The problem with ID in Britain is because of Toiny Blair's "beacon academies", in which multi-millionaires can pay to take over running a school and impose their own curriculum. Multi-millionaire used car dealer and evangelical Xian Peter Vardy promptly took over running a handful of schools in the northeast of England, and introduced creationism which, he wrote is "always better" than evolution. Hence the interest. TB doesn't care, not least because he views the purpose of these schools as to turn out a compliant workforce for British industry. Truth and reality don't matter much to him, or to his equally woo-woo wife.

[gfunkusarelius]

i live in the US southeast...the bible belt...but i am still baffled at this creationism/intelligent design thing.i grew up in the school system here and, granted i was in metro atlanta, and i never got any creationist stuff at school- or in church, really- so it is BIZARRE to hear adults throwing away science for fantasy. i can accept that they believ ein a higher power, a god who created us, but to look at direct, clear evidence and close their eyes to it- i dont see the point. i know "th point" but i dont buy it. i guess God intentionally put this evidence before us to test our resolve...haha. or maybe satan did it to trick us into godlessness