The skinhead next door - what can you do?

[Tricky]

A scary news story in the Houston area is about a group of what appear to be neo-Nazis who assaulted and nearly killed a young hispanic man (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3831053.html). Though there had not been any violence before the attack, there had been plenty of intimidation.

Phyllis Martin described a day when she was leaving for work and driving down Nutwood, only to be blocked by a red pickup carrying seven young men with shaved heads.
Among them, she said, was Tuck.
They blocked her path, staring her down for four minutes. She stared right back, eating sunflower seeds.
As heavy metal music blared from the red truck and some of the young men pumped their fists, Martin sat silently in her car and prepared to drive in reverse should any of the young men move toward her.
There had been plenty of warning signs too.

But the Martins said they saw other things at Tuck's home during their months in the neighborhood — most notably, ceremonial-like rituals that would take place in the front yard and street on Friday and Saturday nights.

Phyllis Martin said several young men with shaved heads would stand shoulder to shoulder while other young men of similar appearance would march around them, humming and chanting.
"They had a chant they would do," she recalled, adding that she could not understand the words.
After that routine, parties would begin. The next morning, there would be broken beer bottles strewn outside Tuck's house.

So what could have been done differently? Should the Tuck house have been under constant surveillance from the police or FBI? (I don't know if it was or not). Should the neighborhood association, assuming there was one, have the right to kick out a family for the intimidation of their neighbors? Why did it have to wait until a serious crime occurred?

I honestly don't know the answers to these questions. I believe in free speech, even for hate-mongers, but there is a line between free speech and intimidation which I believe was crossed. But of course, hindsight is 20:20.

[tkingdoll]

Everyone knows that anyone with a shaved head who listens to heavy metal is a neo-Nazi.

[Tricky]

Everyone knows that anyone with a shaved head who listens to heavy metal is a neo-Nazi.
And the swastikas tattooed on their bodies and painted on their fence are just because they like the symmetry of it? I'm not talking about a fashion statement, tkingdoll, I'm talking about observed Nazi youth behavior, complete with "heil Hitlers".

[tkingdoll]

And the swastikas tattooed on their bodies and painted on their fence are just because they like the symmetry of it? I'm not talking about a fashion statement, tkingdoll, I'm talking about observed Nazi youth behavior, complete with "heil Hitlers".

Where in your post does it say anything about swastikas?

[CFLarsen]

Solution: Play James Brown. LOUD!

"I feel good", "Papa's got a brand new bag", back to back, continuously.

[Tricky]

Where in your post does it say anything about swastikas?
Sorry, in the article and related articles. I only posted an excerpt, but I'll give you more if you're interested in the whole story.

[pipelineaudio]

Inform the skinheads that, hey, the 80's are LONG gone

Explain to them that if they want to be nazis today theyve gotta do it a lot more subtley, like joining the NAACP, or supporting affirmative action

If they just want to hate jews they can join any number of leftist, blame america euronazi groups and join the muslims screaming "the jooooos, the jooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooos"

[Tricky]

Inform the skinheads that, hey, the 80's are LONG gone

Explain to them that if they want to be nazis today theyve gotta do it a lot more subtley, like joining the NAACP, or supporting affirmative action

If they just want to hate jews they can join any number of leftist, blame america euronazi groups and join the muslims screaming "the jooooos, the jooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooos"
I'm having a hard time getting a reading on you, Pipeline. Are you a real person or is it just a bad parody?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Solution: Play James Brown. LOUD!

"I feel good", "Papa's got a brand new bag", back to back, continuously.

"Say it loud, I'm black and I'm proud"

[Luke T.]

I hate neo-Nazis. Bunch of losers. Hopefully, the two punks in the article will get their own asses pounded in jail.

[BPSCG]

I honestly don't know the answers to these questions. I believe in free speech, even for hate-mongers, but there is a line between free speech and intimidation which I believe was crossed. But of course, hindsight is 20:20.The whole neighborhood was afraid of these guys, but nobody said, "Hey, maybe we should call the police." Intimidating behavior is justification enough; it might even legally be considered assault.

(BTW, I'm surprised nobody here has said yet that these young thugs are obviously "right-wing fundies"...)

[Dr Adequate]

euronazi I am still interested to know why you blame my continent for your idiots. It makes you look like such a stupid hateful xenophobic bigot.

[Tricky]

The whole neighborhood was afraid of these guys, but nobody said, "Hey, maybe we should call the police." Intimidating behavior is justification enough; it might even legally be considered assault.
That was kind of my question in the first place. What can you do? For all we know they did call the police, but since no laws were broken, (before the assault) they couldn't do anything. I agree though that those people who were subjected to "intimidating behavior" should have done something. The way our courts work though, it would probably have been dismissed for lack of evidence, while the perpetrators stepped up their intimidation against the people who charged them. It's a tough question.

(BTW, I'm surprised nobody here has said yet that these young thugs are obviously "right-wing fundies"...)
LOL. Obviously we haven't attracted the "loonie left" to this thread yet, eh?

[BPSCG]

I am still interested to know why you blame my continent for your idiots. It makes you look like such a stupid hateful xenophobic bigot.Well, that's what you think we are anyway, so we're just trying to give you a little schadenfreude by living down to your worst expectations...

Anyway, "euronazis" is certainly inappropriate in this case. American-Nazis would probably by more appropriate.

Though you have to confess, the original model was one of your guys...

[BPSCG]

That was kind of my question in the first place. What can you do? For all we know they did call the police, but since no laws were broken, (before the assault) they couldn't do anything. I agree though that those people who were subjected to "intimidating behavior" should have done something. The way our courts work though, it would probably have been dismissed for lack of evidence, while the perpetrators stepped up their intimidation against the people who charged them. It's a tough question.Seems to me if they'd called the cops, it would have shown up in the story somehow.

I'm wondering what would have happened if the neighbors had gotten together one night for a little potluck dinner party at someone's house, with the purpose of working up a united front against these thugs. We're looking at one house, with a couple of teenagers. What would those little punks have done if they answered the doorbell and found two dozen men standing there, and then been forced to listen while those men explained to them that their intimidation of the neighborhood was going to stop tonight, and that if there were any further incidents, they could count on getting their punk asses kicked all the way to the police station or emergency room, whichever seemed more appropriate.

[pipelineaudio]

I am still interested to know why you blame my continent for your idiots. It makes you look like such a stupid hateful xenophobic bigot.

I just use the term "euronazi" as it is usually the term used for such. If I had a better name for it I would, and as I pointed out theyre as often as not from elsewhere than europe, but they always seem to proclaim europe's superiority over the USA

[Tricky]

Seems to me if they'd called the cops, it would have shown up in the story somehow.
It would seem that way, but it is impossible for a reporter to get all the facts. In theory, the police should report if there had been complaints, but in actuality, they could be covering their butts by saying nothing. But I haven't studied it enough to even know everything that has been reported.

I'm wondering what would have happened if the neighbors had gotten together one night for a little potluck dinner party at someone's house, with the purpose of working up a united front against these thugs. We're looking at one house, with a couple of teenagers. What would those little punks have done if they answered the doorbell and found two dozen men standing there, and then been forced to listen while those men explained to them that their intimidation of the neighborhood was going to stop tonight, and that if there were any further incidents, they could count on getting their punk asses kicked all the way to the police station or emergency room, whichever seemed more appropriate.
That's kind of what I was wondering. Of course, people put up with a lot to keep from causing a disturbance. Sometimes its easier just to leave, as some families did.

But even if such a "potluck dinner" had occurred. Could the neighbors be charged with intimidation? Would that have been effective, or would it have made the skinheads more angry and confrontational? But I agree that consulting the neighbors is a fairly good idea. Problem is, if you are like me, you don't really know more than a handful of your neighbors, and even among those, you can't be sure of their politics. Some of them might even support skin-heads. For example, my next-door neighbor is usually a nice enough guy, but don't get him started on gays. He becomes a slavering bigot. I stay away from such issues with him.

[Morrigan]

Everyone knows that anyone with a shaved head who listens to heavy metal is a neo-Nazi.

This man would like to have a word with you:

http://homepage3.nifty.com/music99/Vocalist/image/RobHalford3.jpg

[pipelineaudio]

This man would like to have a word with you:

http://homepage3.nifty.com/music99/Vocalist/image/RobHalford3.jpg

YES!!!!

The ultimate oxymoron, who can be so flaboyantly gay at times, yet so unbelieveably macho tough you are almost afraid to speak in his presence!

Rob is THE man

[Belz...]

Solution: Play James Brown. LOUD!

"I feel good", "Papa's got a brand new bag", back to back, continuously.

That'll cool'em down.

[tkingdoll]

This man would like to have a word with you:

http://homepage3.nifty.com/music99/Vocalist/image/RobHalford3.jpg

Your sarcasm detectors would like to have a word with you, they seem to have failed when reading my post.

[Dr Adequate]

Well, that's what you think we are anyway... If you are going to presume to tell me what I think, could you make a token effort at accuracy?

I'm sure there are some Americans who aren't completely nuts.

[Dr Adequate]

I just use the term "euronazi" as it is usually the term used for such. The fact that you have company in your stupidity does not justify it. Lots of people use the term "n*****". When you find yourself in the company of halfwits --- leave.

If I had a better name for it I would... Well, since the people you're talking about are Americans rather than Europeans, perhaps "amerinazi"?

This would make you look less of a jerk.

... and as I pointed out theyre as often as not from elsewhere than europe, but they always seem to proclaim europe's superiority over the USA Even a stopped clock is correct twice a day, and it so happens that they are absolutely right.

And one respect in which Europe is superior to America is that the whackjobs you object to so much are in fact on your side of the Atlantic.

[rharbers]

I'm sure there are some Americans who aren't completely nuts.

Not many of us!

[pipelineaudio]

Well, since the people you're talking about are Americans rather than Europeans, perhaps "amerinazi"?

This would make you look less of a jerk.

.

No if you were to reread either thread, I believe so many call them euronazis as it seemed to sprout from a few swedish and dutch posters on internet forums acreaming about "the joooooooooooooos"

[BPSCG]

If you are going to presume to tell me what I think, could you make a token effort at accuracy?Lighten up DA - read the rest of the sentence and see if you can detect the little attempt at humor there...

I'm sure there are some Americans who aren't completely nuts.Names. We want names.

[senorpogo]

The whole neighborhood was afraid of these guys, but nobody said, "Hey, maybe we should call the police." Intimidating behavior is justification enough; it might even legally be considered assault.


A similiar thing happened in my parents neighborhood. In that case, the youth were young black men, but a lot of the basic behavior was the same - intimidation of neighbors, doing their best to make their presence known, loud parties, etc. Obviously, no nazi stuff or racist stuff, but obvious signs of violence to come. And like the skinhead story, the majority of the neighbors sat on their hands and let it all go. Then the kids started randomly beating the living s--t out of people on the street. And I wondered the same thing - nobody thought, "Hey, maybe we should call the police"?

And becasuse I can't let anything go without quoting a movie, I've got to say -
Illinois Nazis.
I hate Illinois Nazis.

[pipelineaudio]

Back to the topic, if you really are dealing with an 80's skinhead problem, perhaps its time to use the same solution they did in the 80's to get rid of them

http://www.suicidaltendencies.com/

Sick em Mike!

[Dr Adequate]

I just use the term "euronazi" as it is usually the term used for such. But this is not true.

A google for the term turned up 53 distinct webpages. That's less than you'd get for most spelling mistakes, let alone for a term that you claim to be in common usage. Moreover, a large proportion of these occurences of the word were, quite clearly, posts made by you.

So not only is the word idiotic but also it is not in current parlance.

What made you claim that it was?

[Morrigan]

Your sarcasm detectors would like to have a word with you, they seem to have failed when reading my post.
Uh, wow... Did you really think I was being serious? :confused: I guess I'll add more smilies next time...

[Zep]

Does no-one look for more subtle solutions besides confrontation?

These young men should be encouraged, not confronted! Their obvious gung-ho attitude would be a great benefit to the nation. All they need is a little guidance in the right direction.

I suggest a visit from a US Marines recruitment team, right to their door. You know, the REALLY big guys in the real military uniforms with spit-shined boots, who eat nails for breakfast? I'm sure they can convince these young men to further their activities in a more positive environment, like...say...boot camp in a REAL military environment, instead of poncing about pissed in their front yard playing dolly-Nazis! Why, they would even be paid to participate!

Just get their names and fill the forms at the nearest recruiting station. Their country needs them!

:D

[a_unique_person]

But this is not true.

A google for the term turned up 53 distinct webpages. That's less than you'd get for most spelling mistakes, let alone for a term that you claim to be in common usage. Moreover, a large proportion of these occurences of the word were, quite clearly, posts made by you.

So not only is the word idiotic but also it is not in current parlance.

What made you claim that it was?

You looked in the wrong place.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/lgf-search.php?searchWith=lgf&searchWhat=comments&searchTime=0&searchString=euronazi&doSearch=search

[Ausmerican]

I just use the term "euronazi" as it is usually the term used for such.
I thought the common term was neo-nazi. It was even the most common term used in this thread. Never heard euronazi before. On the subject of how to deal with the skinheads, just yell "Hey brother, I like the whole Michael Jordan look you got goin on there!"

[Skeptic]

"Say it loud, I'm black and I'm proud"

Reminds me of the "Spongebob Squarepants" episode:

--"I'm ugly and proud!!"
--"So that's what they call it nowadays?"

(I guess you had to be there)

[a_unique_person]

I thought the common term was neo-nazi. It was even the most common term used in this thread. Never heard euronazi before. On the subject of how to deal with the skinheads, just yell "Hey brother, I like the whole Michael Jordan look you got goin on there!"

IIRC, it means all Europeans.

[richardm]

it might even legally be considered assault.


I believe I discovered here (and to my surprise) that a threat of violence is indeed considered an assault. If you threaten to use a weapon then it's aggravated assault. If you actually carry out the threat then it becomes battery. So if the police had been involved earlier, perhaps it would have made a difference. Or perhaps it wouldn't; it's impossible to second guess these things.

[Dr Adequate]

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/lgf-search.php?searchWith=lgf&searchWhat=comments&searchTime=0&searchString=euronazi&doSearch=search Isn't that kind of the official home of hysterical paranoid nutters on the internet?

I rest my case.