Is IQ testing reliable or just a paraody?

[Hellcat]

Inspired by another topic in which my own reply would have moved the topic off course, I decided to let the topic stay on track and put my answer and question IQ.

I posses I a high IQ, To me it means nothing it's a curse one I long to have removed, having your mind race assimilating stimuli and moving on continuously is the curse I have to deal with, the my boredom threshold is low, quite literally drives me mad with frustration. To me IQ testing is subjective and for the most part irrelevant. The tests are not 100% accurate and cannot measure the so called IQ levels with an absolute result. Yet these tests are relied upon and used. To me I find the whole idea no more than a parody.

People whom possess a higher Iq's tend to become depressed many suffer manic depression, many try to commit suicide( like Virginia Woolf depressed)out of fear of turning insane, (Tennyson and live under the fear of going mad), easily through boredom, inability to shut down thoughts, and the ever present constraints that are in place(trying to run before you can even crawl). The need for stimuli is a high priority without it those with a higher than average IQ suffer the sometimes devastating consequences.

A typical view is held by some that 'they' must join the elite and parade this badge, when any refuse they are ostracised for wasting their talent. Failing that some view those with such higher IQ's at an object to ridicule.

I have no desire to become a member of any "elite" group or society, no matter what it is. I have no desire to sit with a bunch of sycophants, discussing 'how great', 'how unique', 'how intelligent' we are. I have no objections to people doing this, if that's what they choose to do. What I object to is people who are not willing to accept the path I have chosen in life, people who are simply not prepared to respect the decisions I have made source Ulysses.com. A very shared sentiment.

Though IQ intelligence itself is a paradox, having a high IQ doesn't not make you any better than somebody with an average IQ, It simply means that one skill area is more suited to you over another. Prime example autistic children, they have behavioural/social problems but in some cases give them a complex mathematical formulae and they can solve it in seconds which takes teh elite specialists weeks to answer. Then there are those who can draw in accurate perfect detail and scale a building from memory, though their social skills are considered less than acceptable to the stereotypical norm. There is more to living than what any intelligence tests measure, or even than what can reasonably be called intelligence. Living and surviving this modern world is in my opinion is intelligence, answering a bunch of questions is not.

Various IQ tests (http://www.queendom.com/tests/iq/)

three virtues I have been 'blessed' with. "The mind can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven." Milton, Paradise Lost.



edited for unclear refrence to V Woolf (depression link)and Tennyson (fear of going insane)

[JamesM]

Originally posted by Hellcat

People whom possess a higher Iq's tend to become depressed many suffer manic depression, many commit suicide(Virginia Wolf)out of fear of turing insane, Tennyson,


Did Virginia Woolf or Tennyson ever take an IQ test?

[Hellcat]

Originally posted by JamesM


Did Virginia Woolf or Tennyson ever take an IQ test?
They were both intellectual, I do not know if they took an IQ test or what their scores were.

I meant it, and apologise for not making it clear, as a reference to those who suffer depression and from the fear of insanity.

Virginia Woolf and Tennyson was afraid of going insane, as in the case with some of those whom have high Iq's also suffer from this, as they can't switch off their thoughts and it literally drives you insane. I believe Asimov has a high Iq along with Einstein(160+/180 depending whom you read) Marilyn Monroe(163/183) who would have said oh look she is so intelligent? Not many at all, Geena Davis (140+) again how many cut her a cursory glance and did not think she is also highly intellectual/intelligent?


I apologise for not making it that very clear.


I was doing thisillusion test (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/senses/illusions/1.shtml) at the same time.

[Dymanic]

They aren't a waste of time...because they're fun! Ever seen Bongard problems? I love those.

As a accurate measure of intelligence...pretty rough at best. You can work with rough data, as long as you keep in mind that it is rough.

Combining results of different types of tests to arrive at a single number is a very bad idea (in fact, it's a stupid idea). Who among us hasn't met someone who had a mind like a steel trap as long as the problem was mathematical or spacial, yet lacked the social grace of an adolescent chimpanzee?

[arcticpenguin]

IQ is an accurate assessment of the ability to do well on IQ tests.

I honestly believe that.

[Dymanic]

IQ is an accurate assessment of the ability to do well on IQ tests.
I agree. Here's the problem, as I see it.

Designing problems that can be answered unambiguosly is pretty much a requirement. You can't corrupt the test by having a human assess the quality of responses to questions, even if you could muster the manpower to hand-score every test. Many interesting problems have more than one 'correct' answer, however, and choosing between them is often a mostly subjective judgement call--different answers to the same question by different subjects may reflect a qualitative, rather than a quantitative difference.

Creativity is certainly one component of intelligence. Is that something that can be measured? What would a creativity test look like, and how would it be scored?

Does the design of a wildly complicated Rube Goldberg device which is intended to function as a toaster (yet doesn't actually work) reflect more, or less intelligence on the part of the designer than a simple, functional toaster of conventional design?

[DrMatt]

Each IQ test tests your ability to score on that test on that particular day. My score has ranged back and forth across a span of 25 points, and I'm not convinced the variation meant much. On the other hand, the difference between a group of people with scores around 130 and a group with scores around 70, in terms of their prognosis for intellectual achievement in a particular society, might hold some water.

[Hellcat]

If the general consensus has taken the stance the IQ tests are by large mostly fun by irrelevant then perhaps somebody would care to explain why so much emphasis placed to the outcome of these tests?


Recently I received back my results to a completed IQ test that I did a while back. My results came back having marked my IQ level at being 298:eek: ) how they scored that I have no idea seeing as I worked out the maximum IQ level couldn't be any higher than 150, now this is far more appealing to my overtly curious mind to how that result came about) impressive but highly irrelevant why, simple I had already seen and the questions they used on other IQ tests and knew the answers, only 1 answer I got wrong and it was as ever a simple question, a mistake on my part otherwise I would have obtained a higher IQ result.

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by DrMatt
Each IQ test tests your ability to score on that test on that particular day. My score has ranged back and forth across a span of 25 points, and I'm not convinced the variation meant much. On the other hand, the difference between a group of people with scores around 130 and a group with scores around 70, in terms of their prognosis for intellectual achievement in a particular society, might hold some water.

This has to do with the reliability of the particular test. The WiscIII test-retest reliability is about +.96 (Weschler, 1991) and others (Stanford-Binet, Raven's progressive Matrices and SAT) are similar. These are all individually administered tests and may not correlate with the tests found on the Web at all.

But reliability merely means that the tests are measunig someting in a consistent fashion. It doesn't make them necessarily valid. That is established by correlating the IQ score with some other measure, like academic achievement. There, they do best, with correlations around +.50 (if you don't have a truncated range, as is the case with highly selective universities.) But that's only 25 percent of the variance accounted for.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

My son does not like tests and so did not cooperate with the IQ test.

My daughter's IQ increased 15 points in six months.

We seem to assume that, as far as test taking is concerned, one size fits all. We don't assume that about any other personality trait, so why test taking?

Off the subject a bit, the Massachusetts state-wide MCAS test for the fourth grade included this essay question: Consider a snow day you've had and write about what you did that day. There hasn't been a snow day in Boston in two years.

~~ Paul

[Dancing David]

Er, Hellcat if you have raising thoughts> Do they distress you? They drive me nuts because then they turn to obsession, fortunately there is help for me.

As alot of people stated in the race thread, IQ tests meassure ability to take IQ tests. They seems to mainly be a leftover way of promoting certain intellectual skills, my question always was, if IQ tests were so cool then why did we have to take all those other tests.

Peace

[Hellcat]

Originally posted by Dancing David
Er, Hellcat if you have raising thoughts> Do they distress you? They drive me nuts because then they turn to obsession, fortunately there is help for me.

As alot of people stated in the race thread, IQ tests measure ability to take IQ tests. They seems to mainly be a leftover way of promoting certain intellectual skills, my question always was, if IQ tests were so cool then why did we have to take all those other tests.

Peace

Raising or racing thoughts? No I never suffer with obsessional thoughts I am far too logical for that to happen. All comes down to perspectives and putting things in order in the end. If thoughts going to occur let it why bother frighting the inevitable.

I get bored real easy that's my problem, I need a constant supply of engaging stimuli or I get agitated. I once read Dante's the Divine comedy, I can't speak or read Italian but it stopped me getting bored for a week. Chaucer is a good back up to stop me getting bored too.

peas.:D

[Marvel Frozen]

I just took the IQ test at www.intelligencetest.com, and got a 140.

[Denise]

Originally posted by Marvel Frozen
I just took the IQ test at www.intelligencetest.com, and got a 140.

Hey, high IQ person! The link works better if you take the comma out of it!:D

[Captain_Snort]

Originally posted by Marvel Frozen
I just took the IQ test at www.intelligencetest.com, and got a 140.

I got 144, and I can't keep my eyes open (late at night)

Anyway, to say what hellcat was saying, I have suffered a depressive illness, and this score is down a bit from the last one I did before the illness. I have been told that depressive illnesses do have an adverse effect part of what is tested in IQ tests. But I still hold little or no regard for them.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I took the test and got 120. Then I went back and looked at the questions I missed. I don't have the slightest idea what the answer is to about five of the questions.

I expect those word scrambles are especially fun for non-English speaking folks.

Edited to add: That makes 120, 131, and 138 for the three online IQ tests I've taken.













=================== S P O I L E R ================

3. Why Barcelona?

8. ???

14. What does knowledge of native Americans have to do with IQ? I got it right, but sheesh.

18. I got it right, but a bit of a reach, no?

24. ???


~~ Paul

[Captain_Snort]

hmm, that http://www.intelligencetest.com/

so we have a 144, a 140, a 121 (a friend just did it elsewhere) and a 120

they claim to have produced this perfect bell curve with the results over time. so to balance the 144 out, someone must have got 56 on the test. Now I ask you, could someone with that kind of IQ operate a PC and read the questions?

Hold on, I just realised, that an AOL user

[Captain_Snort]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos







=================== S P O I L E R ================

3. Why Barcelona?

8. ???

14. What does knowledge of native Americans have to do with IQ? I got it right, but sheesh.

18. I got it right, but a bit of a reach, no?

24. ???


~~ Paul [/B]

I would love to see how the logic of some tests work out, but...

3. The rest are capitals of countries
8. look at the location of the diaganol blacked squares in relation to the box jutting out.
14. General knowledge?
18. Ice changes to water on heating, Liquid changes to a gas.
24. meneither, but it late and I can't be arse working it out.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Maybe the person with the 56 was just phoolin' around. Maybe s/he was taking care of kids at the same time?

Hey, I wanted to correct some of my mistakes, but they wouldn't let me! I'm pretty sure I can make corrections in any real-world situation, can't I? These IQ tests aren't realistic!

~~ Paul

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

3. The rest are capitals of countries
Oh, stupid me.

8. look at the location of the diaganol blacked squares in relation to the box jutting out.
Or, alternatively, look at the orientation of the diagonal line and ignore the jut. I demand a few extra IQ points!

14. General knowledge?
Yeah, righto.

18. Ice changes to water on heating, Liquid changes to a gas.
I know, but sheesh. What's wrong with steam?

24. meneither, but it late and I can't be arse working it out.
Me, neither. :D

~~ Paul

[Captain_Snort]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos


I know, but sheesh. What's wrong with steam?

~~ Paul

ice and water are both refering to something specific - H20, as is steam in the Solid - Liquid - Gas phase, Liquid and Gas could refer to any substance.

Dear all,

I just took it and got a 102.

I don't put much faith in the IQ test. First, I know the statistics involved, and there is a huge variation in scores. Second, not even the experts are sure if IQ measures anything more than the ability to score well on IQ tests. Third, I've scored higher IQ's and lower IQ's in the past on similar tests. Last, and most important, I've known people from all walks of life with high and low IQ's.

I do enjoy puzzles for the most part though, but only ones that have a real-world application.

Sincerely,

S. H.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I suppose steam refers to water, although the first definition in Merriam-Webster's is:

1 : a vapor arising from a heated substance

I say we score both steam and gas correct.

~~ Paul

[Jeff Corey]

I just looked at the test site but couldn't procede to the test until I filled out some info I'd rather not give these people.

But it described the test as a 30 question multiple choice with a 15 minute time limit.

Getting a reliable number requires a much longer test with an examiner able to recognize answers that were novel to the test manual, but correct.

Ellis Island, 1923.
Examiner: Now we shall test his vocabulary.
Interpreter: -- - - - - - - - - - - -- -- ---- - ---- . OK. he understands.
Examiner: The first word is "mosaic".
Interpreter: Schlomo- - - - - - --- --- --.
Testee: Schlomo? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - -- ---- -- .
Interpreter: He says "pretaining to the sayings of Moses".
Examiner: Bzzzt, WRONG. It's a pattern or artistic work rendered in tile! Get this imbecile back on the boat!
Interpreter: Sorry, Mr. and Mrs. Asimov.

[zakur]

Originally posted by Captain_Snort
3. The rest are capitals of countries. Hmmm...I answered the question correctly, but by following a completely different line of reasoning. 'Barcelona' is spelled with four vowels; all the others only have two. (An IQ test should test your ability to spot something like this rather than test your geographical knowledge, IMHO.)

I scored a 134.

[chance]

IQ test are likely a little more reliable than a lie detector, and should only be used as a guide, and not some pidgin hole of overall intelligence.

[Jeff Corey]

Chance, I agree. Binet constructed the original test to see if kids were at the appropriate level of instruction in an 19th century French classroom. He never stated that these numbers were permanent Au contraire!.

[Hellcat]

IQ tests, test varying aspects of your brain through by way of example:- spatial, verbal,interpersonal, reasoning, modern logic, concept logic, concept reasoning, comprehension, abstract logic, abstract reasoning, concrete logic,, memory, mathematical, existential, logic, illogic, chaos abstraction, emotional, emotive, emphatic concept, empathic reasoning,verbal reasoning, empathic equations, problem solving, sequential logic, cognitive functions, musical, visual, kinesthetic, probability, linguistics, association, disassociation. perception, symbolic logic. logical structure, fundamental reasoning, play, current/recent events, experimental logic, knowledge. Who thought IQ tests were un complicated?:rolleyes:


Sites like this flex and train your lateral prefrontal cortex.

Bricks (http://www.bricks-game.de/)

Multiple intelligences (http://www.surfaquarium.com/im.htm)

Project renaissance

(http://www.winwenger.com/index.htm) BBC test the nation IQ test. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/testthenation/takethetest/)

Train the mensa way. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/testthenation/trainyourbrain/)

[Hellcat]

Stop biting your nails. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2798089.stm)

According to Russian scientists this maybe a good idea to stop biting your nail for reason given in this report.

[Hellcat]

If your intelligent how come you can't...... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2988647.stm)

A rather good Pm came my way. In answer to it, as one did not seem brave to ask it directly or discuss it. I have a higher IQ level than most, just because I suffer word dyslexia and memory problems does not equate that I am not intelligent. I very could easily say and expand upon that because of the tone of the PM , I do so detest being told what is right when nothing is known or has been asked before hand, that is being unintelligent. Also that is not questioning that is you stating an untruth as you are not me and know nothing about me as I with you, I certainly wouldn't go round saying oh how can't be smarter than the average sheep because you spell colour incorrectly :rolleyes:

Now I could have considered doing back what the person did to me, and say that I upon assessing them deem them to be of a severe low level intelligence with a restricted view that blinds them to what is actually around them and not what they wrongly perceive as being there, not forgetting harbouring a self destructive prejudice and most probable fear of those who do not fit into neat pigeon holes a sheep. I won't because I have the ability to accept that they may have a differing view on life that is no more wrong than my own and simply could put it down to that particular person may have had a sheltered upbringing and have not experienced as many things I have or equally not posses the same level and realisation and comprehension of real life with all its grey areas.

I don't fit any pigeon hole category I bridge over most. I enjoy my uniqueness and won't apologise for it, if you are uncomfortable with it then that's your problem not and not mine. People are different, life is different to every individual, life would be pretty boring and bland if everybody was the same. The trick is to acknowledge these anomalies that causes you such anguish they exist it's no good being in denial about it.

Life is about learning and understanding not about closing ones eyes to things that you cannot accept are actually there.

Autistic children are also considered less intelligent' because they do not fit the stereotypical norm. Yet as has been proved in some cases they are far more intelligent than given credit for, intelligence does not mean in every area, it means you have an area that you excel in. I won't even go off and include people with disabilities who also get tarred with the same blinked view brush by a person yelling, you must be unintelligent because you can't blah blah. Who is unintelligent?

Autism (http://www.nlu.edu/education/hhp/417Su2001autism.html)

[lyghtningbyrd]

I don't understand why everyone is so obsessed with intelligence. If you know you're smart, why do you need affirmation?

I know people who are in MENSA. My uncle, his son (my cousin), and I think my uncle on my father's side is too. I know a girl who's in MENSA too, and she is so dumb it blows my mind. I like my uncles and cousin ok, but I'm sorry - MENSA is the gayest thing I've ever heard of. What a bunch of insecure losers...

Also, even though I feel that an IQ test couldn't be very accurate for a number of reasons, I think that if were interviewing prospective employers for some job that required mathematics and logic, I would hire the one who had a higher IQ test score,(assuming I was allowed access to that info as an Employer) because what it does show is that this person was able to do well on something very functional that most people do not do well on. That in and of itself deserves merit for employment.

[xouper]

lyghtningbyrd: ... I'm sorry - MENSA is the gayest thing I've ever heard of. What a bunch of insecure losers...Isaac Asimov was a member of Mensa.

[lyghtningbyrd]

Was he really?

Yeah, I guess you could have a field day reporting all the people who are or were in MENSA. I still think its gay.

[LW]

Originally posted by Marvel Frozen
I just took the IQ test at www.intelligencetest.com and got a 140.

Well, I failed at the first question that asked for my email address. I get enough spam as it is so I'm not going to give it to them so that they could sell it to more spammers.

On a related note, I have never taken a "real" IQ test and probably never will. Finnish MENSA arranges one at our university each year, but I'm not willing to pay 20-30 euros to find a number about me that is largely irrelevant.

[Alaric]

As a young kid,(grade 4), the government tested all the kids in the Toronto area(Durham) for exceptional IQs. As I got awful marks in school due to my plans of world take over and laser equiped sharks, I did really stupidly well. Top 1 percent or something. The tests were easy and reflected NOTHING but my love of National Geographic on Sunday nights from 8 till 9 and Science International every night at 7. If that was where it ended-i would have no problem with IQ tests. Sort of a scientific Tarot card reading with just as much REAL value.

The problem was, I became designated as "gifted" What that did was to isolate me in a class with the same students from grade 5 till 11. Each day we were given a more open concept of teaching-an absolute waste- and the teachers all allowed us to progress at our own pace. To the other students, we were to be avoided. All of us became a social island(with me the poorer big kid in a class full of rich nerds)with little or no contact with other students. Most of those kids I went to school with never really recovered. I would say about 25 percent went on to bigger and better things with another 25 percent involved in idiotic criminal activities(two girls got thrown in jail for armed robbery). Looking for a place to belong, I even ended up with a white supremist crew for a teeny bit(dont tell mum or im dead).
David Suzuki,(yeah, that science guy from Canada) the head or spokesman of what was the ABC(association for bright children) sent out a mailer explaining how we were to find a girlfriend or boyfriend among our peers and not mix with the general population. Needless to say, a girl in grade 10 doesnt really want to hear she is unfit for the grand design.
It was the finest day when the gifted program ended for us and we were scattered into all these classes with everyone else. (although we had already begun being integrated back into the general population starting a few years back) My point is-IQ sucks butt. The damage that can be done because of governments and corporations taking stock in this garbage is significant.

BTW. I was a student at Frenchmans Bay PS, Pickering High School in the Durham School Board(near Toronto Canada)and as far as I know-the program continues but hopefully without the helpful notes about who gifted kids are to breed with.

[Darwin]

I´m not very happy with IQ tests,I have had to attend one a time or two and now that I started looking for them online,I quickly come up with the same conclusions.
Yes,the model is way old and somewhat one-dimensional (if you´re into math and all that,good for you)
I think some improvement might be coming since we do know that some of the better kids may actually do badly in school enviroment,that cultural&stress factors do influence the outcome of such.

What about EQ then?
Personally,that´s where I´ve (and do think would) score(d) better.
Talk about practical models.

Einstein had very small brains,comparatively speaking.I also have the idea that he MAY have been autistic (Asperger´s perhaps,the diagnosis was once offered to me)
and possibly a difficult person to deal with.His intelligence seems to be (neuroanatomically analyzing) highly localized.

I wonder if you can still score for an "idiot"? (old term from psychology)

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Darwin


Einstein had very small brains,comparatively speaking.I also have the idea that he MAY have been autistic (Asperger´s perhaps

Urban legend number 42.
This combines the antiquated notion of larger=better with a nonfact.
And he had none of the stigmata of Asperger's Syndrome.

[Darwin]

"Urban legend number 42.
This combines the antiquated notion of larger=better with a nonfact.
And he had none of the stigmata of Asperger's Syndrome."
So which one was the urban legend?
Large is probably a better indicator towards better than smaller but I agree that it is not all there is (women do seemingly well with smaller brains,and some possible,additional cells)
Neanderthal humans might have bigger brains,just unlikely to have been as developed.

When it comes to autism,I did not know him personally (perhaps you did) so the case is open for speculation but a few sources seem to suggest this possibility,emphasis still being on possibility.

[Ladewig]

I have scored well on IQ tests and like you, Hellcat, enjoy having mental stimulation. Unlike you, I have a very high threshold of boredom. If I am stuck someplace, I watch people, or work on a problem, or look for patterns, or think about my friends. No matter how much time I spend watching people, I am always amazed at and entertained by the infinite variety of human behavior.

Designing problems that can be answered unambiguosly is pretty much a requirement. You can't corrupt the test by having a human assess the quality of responses to questions, even if you could muster the manpower to hand-score every test. Many interesting problems have more than one 'correct' answer, however, and choosing between them is often a mostly subjective judgement call--different answers to the same question by different subjects may reflect a qualitative, rather than a quantitative difference.

Binet originally insisted that his test be administered by a trained professional working with a single test subject. Yes, such an approach is expensive, but does not have to be subjective.

IQ tests designed to measure the general population lose some accuracy when they go beyond 2 or 3 standard deviations from the norm (as do most all tests). There are IQ tests designed to measure high intelligence levels - such as the Sigma Test (http://www.sigmasociety.org/Sigma_Testes_Eng.html) or these (http://www.eskimo.com/~miyaguch/hoeflin.html)

Yes, Mensa meetings (and conventions) can sometimes be eccentric enough to be described as creepily weird, but Mensa's publications often have very interesting articles. It is refreshing to read about national and international problems from a perspective that does not include ad hominims, strawmen, false dictomies and all the other fallacies that crop up so often in talk radio's coverage of the same issues.

[lyghtningbyrd]

Yeah I went to that Sigma test thing...

That's retarded. Those questions are retarded. The entire page is BS. Have you actually been to that webpage?

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Darwin

So which one was the urban legend?...
Large is probably a better indicator towards better than smaller but I agree that it is not all there is (possibility.

Both.
1. Large brains are correlated with large bodies. That's it.
(Young Frankenstein.
Inga, "He'll have a huge swanschstucker!")
2. Einstein's brain was normally sized for his stature.

[Hellcat]

Originally posted by lyghtningbyrd
Yeah I went to that Sigma test thing...

That's retarded. Those questions are retarded. The entire page is BS. Have you actually been to that webpage?
'Retard BS and gay' does somebody have issues?:p

[Alaric]

No. He just dislikes stupid IQ tests. Did you go to that pompous site? Heck. Even from a web design standpoint..that mouse pointer is a killer. You would figure a bunch of eggheads like that could have at least hired one of those mere mortals who make web pages eh?

[Hellcat]

Originally posted by Alaric
No. He just dislikes stupid IQ tests. Did you go to that pompous site? Heck. Even from a web design standpoint..that mouse pointer is a killer. You would figure a bunch of eggheads like that could have at least hired one of those mere mortals who make web pages eh?
'Eggheads' lol issues:p. Intelligence misunderstandings maybe?
Yes I peeked at it and left just as soon as it did not peek my interest. Found a more enjoyable site to entertain myself with. Arguing about Forgiveness, Blinkered views, subjectiveness and the concept of illogical abstractors/abstractism, highly amusing and refreshing.:D

[Genghis Pwn]

If you take the top 100 writers, astronomers, physics professors, wall street analysts, and rocket scientists in the world today, I would bet my life that most of them have high IQs.

I think the tests are pretty good at pegging who is "smart" and who isn´t. I took the Stanford-Binet test in the third grade and did well, so I know something about how it works.

It is also true that very smart people suffer from depression. When you really understand how the world works, it tends to make you lose hope. Dostoyevsky called intelligence a "curse." His book NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND is a great treatment on the dispair that is commonly suffered by highly intelligent and lucid thinkers. :(

[lyghtningbyrd]

It is also true that very smart people suffer from depression. When you really understand how the world works, it tends to make you lose hope. Dostoyevsky called intelligence a "curse." His book NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND is a great treatment on the dispair that is commonly suffered by highly intelligent and lucid thinkers.

Hmm.. possibly. Some people say "Ignorance is Bliss.." and it may well be true, but I don't care. F*ck Bliss, I chose intelligence.

[lyghtningbyrd]

Originally posted by Genghis Pwn


...Dostoyevsky called intelligence a "curse." His book NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND is a great treatment on the dispair that is commonly suffered by highly intelligent and lucid thinkers. :(

Actually, I used to have panic attacks when I was younger. They were usually brought on when I would start visualizing the Earth, then the Solar System, then the Milky Way Galaxy, and so on...and if I thought hard enough about it, I would completely lose it. It was an absolutely horrifying experience that I still fear to this day. My parents thought I was schizophrenic, and I did too for awhile, but I was so young, like maybe 5 or 6. In fact, I think my earliest memories are of those panic attacks.

They don't happen anymore, because I'm capable of understanding everything a little more clearly and less emotionally now that I'm a bit older.

BTW - this is off topic of intelligence tests, but did anyone else experience something similar? Presumably athiests at a young age having trouble coming to terms with it?

[Dancing David]

Panic attacks in kids are not that uncommon, sounds like an 'intrusive thought'.
Still kind of freaks me out that the atmoshpere is only six miles deep.

Peace

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by Hellcat

I believe Asimov has a high Iq along with Einstein(160+/180 depending whom you read) Marilyn Monroe(163/183) who would have said oh look she is so intelligent?

So according to you ... Marilyn Monroe had a higher IQ than Einstein?? :rolleyes:

What a waste of brains...just imagine what Marilyn could have given to humanity if she had used her brains instead of her body. :rolleyes:

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by Hellcat

I posses I a high IQ, To me it means nothing it's a curse one I long to have removed, having your mind race assimilating stimuli and moving on continuously is the curse I have to deal with, the my boredom threshold is low, quite literally drives me mad with frustration. To me IQ testing is subjective and for the most part irrelevant. The tests are not 100% accurate and cannot measure the so called IQ levels with an absolute result. Yet these tests are relied upon and used. To me I find the whole idea no more than a parody.

oh, sure :rolleyes: we all can notice your geniuses. Why are you posting here with us mere mortals?

Proofs?

Which IQ tests did you take? where?

If you don't trust in them why then imply that you possess a high IQ, maybe it is a joke.

[K-W]

IQ tests are good for what they were originally intended to do. Give a general idea of a general knowledge and ability to do certain sklls.

Relating it to "intelligence" is pointless. Its about as informative as the "what kind of robot are you test" :)

[Captain_Snort]

Originally posted by Genghis Pwn
If you take the top 100 writers, astronomers, physics professors, wall street analysts, and rocket scientists in the world today, I would bet my life that most of them have high IQs.
:(

I would add to this and say I think it is who has a ACTIVE mind. The last time I took an IQ test was when I was doing my PhD and my mind was being used extensivly hence I got 158, but as I said earlier, I heard there is a drop in IQ after mental illness, which I am hopefully over. I would put this down to lack of use of the mind, getting those old neurons back into firing regularly helps.

And what is intelligence anyway? I have a friend, a cambridge graduate who only got a Bishop Desmond (2:2) and has apparantly an IQ of 164. Yes intelligent on the IQ scale, but as for common sense.

Does anyone her know how to get someone with an exceptionally low IQ to take the test? what if they cannot read? some alternative test for the subnormal? and yet we can fit it into a bellcurve of intelligence?

anyway, I need to open another beer and kill off a few more neurones.


Oh and to those who say they won't take the test as it asks for your email addy, just type any old crap in, or do like me and use a hotmail address.

[sorgoth]

quote:
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It is also true that very smart people suffer from depression. When you really understand how the world works, it tends to make you lose hope. Dostoyevsky called intelligence a "curse." His book NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND is a great treatment on the dispair that is commonly suffered by highly intelligent and lucid thinkers.
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So to be intelligent, you need to look at the world from a negative standpoint? Just a tad elitist.

Perhaps you could go the other way and class people who can't accept the world, or act to make it better, as 'unintelligent'.

You see, when you REALLY understand how the world works, you can act to fix it. I'm still working on that.

It IS true that intelligent people are a little more likely to suffer from depression...But that simply means that can't cope with their newest revelation "There can't be a heaven" "Not that many people actually care about you" "Yes, 99% of things ARE for money and/or sex"

I'm sure we have lots of people on this earth who are as intelligent as Einstein. Many are probably more so. You have to DO things. Intelligence can be found in anyone, but genious is in the innovative.

Just as a side note, I got 160 on an IQ test. Apparently, I'm a 'genius'. Yeah, right. Maybe the worldwide average is 100, if you count all the poor, the retarded and the oppressed.

But round up a bunch of people in the middle class, or upper class. Chances are, the average will be higher than 100.

IQ tests are a load of crap. I know some people I consider to be geniuses. They don't do all that well on IQ tests, but it doesn't change the fact that one of my friends can play a song after hearing it once, or another can get through every puzzle in most video games in a few hours. I consider my strength to be in creativity. I am certainly not a 'genius'. My school marks aren't THAT high...though total lack of motivation might be a factor.
I have another friend who can comfort and make friends with virtually anyone...even though he may be a little slow in other areas. You can't mesure intelligence in a single test, with one 'right' or 'wrong' answer. It's foolish. Each person has their strengths, and that is what makes them great.

[lyghtningbyrd]

Why do so many of you feel the need to reveal their IQ scores to people on the INTERNET in a web forum? No one cares at all. If another person comments first that they made a high test score, and then says "But I don't care, it means nothing.." I will shoot myself.

If it means nothing, why did you tell everyone what your score was?

By the way, I made a 350 on the IQ test. But its a meaningless test, I don't care...

[Dymanic]

What a waste of brains...just imagine what Marilyn could have given to humanity if she had used her brains instead of her body.
Yeah, but if she had, someone would probably be saying, "What a waste of looks...just imagine what Marilyn could have could have given to humanity if she had used her body instead of her brains".

[Kally]

Be wary of online tests. No matter how you answer they give you a high score. Then they hit you for the money for the fancy certificate and whatever they are hawking.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001912.htm

A series of tests used to determine the intelligence of an individual in relation to other people the same age. Tests are specific to a particular culture, and do not reflect creativity or motor skill aptitude.

There are many IQ tests used today. The most commonly used in the U.S. and U.K for adults are the Catell B, Culture Free, and Wechsler tests. Each of these uses different scales; therefore, the score represents statistical cutoffs in the population. For example, on the Catell B only 2% of people, on average, are able to score above a 148—therefore, 148 is arbitrarily designated genius. Similarly, the 2% mark is 133 in the Culture Free, and 132 in the Wechsler. The score is very much related to which test was used. Furthermore, different tests are used for different age groups.

Generally, scores around 100 are average, while scores below 70 indicate some degree of mental retardation. Again, scores are test and age dependent, so a child that scores 120 on one test will not necessarily score a 120 on a separate test as an adult. And someone who scores 140 on the Catell B will clearly not score 140 on the Wechsler—he will more likely score around 125.

[American]

IQ tests are abused to make stupid kids feel bad, but how else can we pick them out and send them to places like Harvard, Berkeley, and Brown?

[Hellcat]

1. Which phrase means the same as the following? You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs.
A It's sometimes difficult to avoid hurting people; B You should reason things out; C At the start it is difficult to predict the exact outcome; D Act quickly.

2. Which is the odd one out?
A Circle; B Square; C Oval; D Cube

3. Sea is to salty as chili is to:
A boat; B curry; C hot; D pepper

4. What is twice a quarter of a third of 24?

5. Make ONE word from these letters, then find the related word: ear gag

-------------------
A few typical IQ questions I have had them up-to 22 times in varying degrees, hardly intelligence to remember and see the answers is it?

[Hellcat]

Removed simply because it was part of my investigatory analogy and not anything to do with this site or topic.

Sorry copied to here instead of 602.

[Kally]

Hellcat,
I have one question. Where are your links? I posted mine from the Governments National Institute of Health site.

Kally

Here it is again in case you overlooked it...

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/...icle/001912.htm

[Hellcat]

Originally posted by Kally
Hellcat,
I have one question. Where are your links? I posted mine from the Governments National Institute of Health site.

Kally

What the links have vanished since the day I put them up?? They're the coloured words don't ask me what colour they all look blue at the moment???

[Hellcat]

Just looked and they are all there and working.

[Kally]

I meant real links. Do you consider this online money scam a link?
You posted it.

INTERACTIVE / TESTS

IQ Tests
Want to see all of our IQ tests? Sign up for My Profile! We'll sort the tests by topic and alphabetically, tell you which ones you've already taken and suggest other tests ... plus you’ll get access to the tests only for Profile members. And all this for free!

Want access to more free tests? Sign up for My Profile!

lol When do they hit you with the charge?

Then there was that cute online test thing with the little funny shape following my pointer around. No offense but it is my opinion that you feel very insecure about your intelligence or there would never had been a need to talk about it at all.

Kally

[Kimpatsu]

I have a genius IQ. I joined MENSA for all of one year, just so I could write the fact that I was a member on my college application forms. Meetings consisted mostly of pub gatherings, in which MENSANs whined about how, with their IQs, they deserved better from life than they got. One oft-heard refrain was that telling your boss you were a MENSAN was detrimental to your career, because the boss would be jealous.
In my experience, IQ is merely a measure of how well you can do cryptic crossword puzzles. It is not a measure of intelligence, and certainly not of application, dilligence, or drive.

[Hellcat]

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
I have a genius IQ. I joined MENSA for all of one year, just so I could write the fact that I was a member on my college application forms. Meetings consisted mostly of pub gatherings, in which MENSANs whined about how, with their IQ's, they deserved better from life than they got. One oft-heard refrain was that telling your boss you were a MENSAN was detrimental to your career, because the boss would be jealous.
In my experience, IQ is merely a measure of how well you can do cryptic crossword puzzles. It is not a measure of intelligence, and certainly not of application, diligence, or drive.
Congratulation Kimpatsu, at last somebody agrees with what has been already said. IQ tests just show those who can answer pub quizzes better than others can. The more you do them the more your score becomes greater. Shame when marking the tests they can't add up as said earlier a 289 score was unfeasible that was an error they made, now 150 -160 scoring and would have believed it, and not fell about laughing at the obvious error.

You are most correct Kimpatsu; some of the IQ elite does whine about how life should treat them better, that it’s a bunch of questions not a life changing theory or invention.

Well I can read it, word blindness is catching I must remember to wear a protections suit and gas mask so people don't keep catch my dyslexia. Hmm, Prof HC subjective dyslexia, excuse me while I patent another theory.:rolleyes::D

[Kally]

Tact is the ability to tell a man/woman he/she has an open mind when he/she has a hole in his/her head.

Kally

[Hellcat]

Originally posted by Kally
Tact is the ability to tell a man/woman he/she has an open mind when he/she has a hole in his/her head.

Kally
I prefer it in it's original format, just how the person intended it to be read.

Like saying "There is nothing to fear bar fear itself", and the fear of change is the worse fear of all. It now has altered the original meaning and has lost the original edge.

Your sig could be equally changed to one that states" If money is the route of all evil and blind prejudice is the route of all hatred then Religion is the route of all wars"

[Hellcat]

Originally posted by Kally
I meant real links. Do you consider this online money scam a link?
You posted it.



lol When do they hit you with the charge?

Then there was that cute online test thing with the little funny shape following my pointer around. No offence but it is my opinion that you feel very insecure about your intelligence or there would never had been a need to talk about it at all.

Kally

:rolleyes: Strange how I could read the heres the free version offers, as well as the pay me money types and ignore the pay me types too. Then some of us can read some of us scan I suppose. Must have a link or it is plagiarising you know the rules very well newbie or not so newbie as the case appears.

[Kally]

posted by hellcat:
Strange how I could read the heres the free version offers, as well as the pay me money types and ignore the pay me types too. Then some of us can read some of us scan I suppose. Must have a link or it is plagiarising you know the rules very well newbie or not so newbie as the case appears.

Things I say to you just zoom right over your head. I have a suggestion. Go to the internet infidels board, try any of the upper forums and tell them about your online IQ tests (or offline)

http://www.iidb.org Philosophy would be a good place to start. I want to watch. :eek:

Actually say it in any forum, even humour! :rolleyes:

edit: I've seen it happen many times before. It gets ugly. Can you handle it?

[Kally]

If you can't do a simple thing like that with your overblown IQ, I won't respond to any of this garbage anymore.

Have you taken the Raven Culture Fair test? I got them all right and there were no words. Just patterns that became progressively harder. So that makes me 133, so what? That's as high as that test goes. One time some ofus played around with those online IQ tests and we were all way over genius level no matter how stupidly we answered the questions.They will want money evenually on those free sites. Think about it. Why are they there? My taking the Raven test was for RN program admittance at a university. I also took the Wechsler and got 124. See my post above explaining how the Wechsler is always lower than the Catell B... Different tests =different scores.

Kally

Take my challenge.

[Hellcat]

Originally posted by Kally


Things I say to you just zoom right over your head. I have a suggestion. Go to the internet infidels board, try any of the upper forums and tell them about your online IQ tests (or offline)

http://www.iidb.org Philosophy would be a good place to start. I want to watch. :eek:

Actually say it in any forum, even humour! :rolleyes:

edit: I've seen it happen many times before. It gets ugly. Can you handle it?
Have you not read this board then ugly lol damn funny kally. I have seen that board and it doesn't interest me at the moment. I have a far more enjoayabl eone to play with and thats not ugly that is warfare.


Do they?

[Kally]

They don't allow flame wars there. You type like you are falling to pieces. Just go look around at iidb.org and see what it's like over there. *chicken* No more responses unless you take my challenge. I'm getting kind of tired of you. No offense.

We are skeptics. What did you expect?

Kally

[Weezer]

I took the test at www.intelligencetest.com and got an 81. WHAT???
A year ago I took two other online tests, both claiming to be able to come within 5 pts. of a MENSA test and my scores were 120 and 124.
So what gives? Which one is more accurate?
If it's this one, I'm going to kill myself.

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Kally

Have you taken the Raven Culture Fair test? I

I gave the Raven's to a supposedly "retarded" teen long ago. He did not speak intelligibly and could not read. Signing "Same?" clued him in and he got above the mean. It turned out he was mostly deaf and had been institutionalized since 4.
Anyone ever take the Miller Analogy Test?

I still remember one item from when I first saw it in 1957.
Sloop: pools::
a. Liner: oceans
b. Boat: docks
c. Stop: pots
d. Tug: pull

[Weezer]

I say 'A'

Husband says 'C'

[Martin]

I agree with your husband. C

[Hellcat]

Strange isn't it the site you put up is the exact very same site your banned from Kally. I wonder why:rolleyes:


"Gothca"

[Kally]

Changed to C because I just noticed. whew....(Thanks Weezer) :-)

Originally posted by Hellcat
Strange isn't it the site you put up is the exact very same site your banned from Kally. I wonder why:rolleyes:


"Gothca"

It's true. After 2 years and 10,000 posts under Mad Kally and MadKally a good friend killed himself over an online relationship. He even left his wife and rented and apartment waiting for her. She was married and her husband evidently enjoyed her little escapades. The woman who toyed with his mind just continued cyber f*cking every man she could find even after he was dead. His name was MadMordigan aka Steven McArthur from Vancouver, BC. She laughed and I screamed NOOOO at my monitor. I couldn't handle the anger... S*it happens. That doesn't make online IQ tests any more legitimate.

[SIZE=1]You are way too viscious for me to be trying to communicate with while I'm new. Or any other time. I don't give a damn what anyone's IQ is. Mordigan always insisted his was 41 after we took the online test. He was funny (a quality to me) . I miss him.

[Dancing David]

c

[daver]

c. is the test timed? a was my first answer, but the analogy wasn't very precise.

[schplurg]

An IQ test taken online is not accurate. A proper IQ test is administered by a professional and the questions don't always have a right or wrong answer.

150 is not the maximum IQ. There are tests designed for people that are "off the scale". MY IQ has been tested several times throughout my life and the scores range from 145 to 165. In one test I was "off the scale" but declined to take the additional test. There will always be a variance in scores, as all tests are different. I believe the more tests you take, the more accurate your "average" score will be.

A high IQ doesn't mean you are "smarter" or more knowledgeable than other people. I believe the tests are designed to gauge how your mind works...its ability to reason, to solve abstract problems. For instance, people that can't do simple math, like adding fractions, can still score very high on an IQ test.

Websters Online:
Intelligence
the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : REASON; also : the skilled use of reason (2) : the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria.
A person that does not know the 50 states in the U.S. or does not understand chemistry, or a person who has never even attended school can still have a high degree of intelligence. People that you may suspect of being dumb here at JREF may be the most intelligent members...you never know.

A lot of billionaires have average IQ's while many of your average people who have trouble holding a job have superior IQ's. As Hellcat said, a high degree of intelligence can be a curse. You are expected to perform better than others, and there seems to be a correlation with being highly intelligent and having a "screwed up" brain...so to speak. I'm one of those. Note that many people throughout history that have been referred to as being a Genius are also some of the most screwy people. There's a thin line between genius and insane I think.

I'm often accused of 'thinking too much'. Sometimes it keeps me from just letting loose and having fun. It makes you different than other people and sometimes I wish my brain would slow down. I would be very interested in finding out how other "intelligent" people here have dealt with any problems it has caused them.

I chose "C"
'Stop' is the reverse of 'pots'. There is more than one possible correct answer though. Many questions in an IQ test have more than one correct answer, which helps one gauge how the mind approached the problem.

[Kimpatsu]

To be proven wrong and to learn are synonymous. After all, if you are proven right, what have you really learned?
That you were right.

[Weezer]

After I thought about it awhile it looks to me like the answer is C as well.

And I thought making the dean's list at the community college was something to be proud of...

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by schplurg
:I chose "C"
'Stop' is the reverse of 'pots'. There is more than one possible correct answer though.

I don't think so. How are any of the other answers correct?

A, "liner: oceans" is a distractor. A class of boat and bodies of water may superficially be analogous, but a sloop is not normally found in pools unless a hurricane or tornado placed it there.
The other choices are also distractors because the first parts start with types of boats with no sensible connection to the second part.

[clusterm2]

Hey, I got 94 ...snigger I guess that makes me pretty dumb but I've never had a problem getting good sex and earned over £50k last year... I like dumb;)
Oh yeah I'm 44 and it's the first test I've taken since say 1979 ish but I do feel the slightest tinge of embarrassment to be actually below average, still what the heck

[Jeff Corey]

Which test was that? A 94 0n the Intelligents test is actually good.
Sample question:

How many quid you make a year?
a. Don't know, Charted Accountant does.
b. A bunch.
c. Who gives a rodent's rectum cause Planet X is comin'.
d. Enough to be able to have a courtesy card for Cyril's Rent-A-Slag.

[hammegk]

Originally posted by schplurg
An IQ test taken online is not accurate. A proper IQ test is administered by a professional ....

From what I've read & been involved with, a professionally administered test would for most of us here yield a quite accurate result.

I speculate that taking, say, 9 online tests, discarding high & low scores, then averaging could be of value, especially if the variance wasn't "excessive".

A lot of billionaires have average IQ's ..
Although I don't personally know any billionaires, my take on the Buffetts, Gateses, Turners, etc from what I do know does not support that statement.

Do you also believe that CEOs of big multinationals -- or nearly all high level positions -- are staffed by average IQ's? I don't.

....while many of your average people who have trouble holding a job have superior IQ's. ...... there seems to be a correlation with being highly intelligent and having a "screwed up" brain...so to speak.
On an anecdotal level I find some truth value here, but could not 'prove' it.

[Ike]

Here's one idea. Give subjective measures of intelligence by having the subject argue with the test-giver on a few topics that they likely havent given much thought. Or even to use a topic on which the testee has a set opinion over, but make them take the opposite side. Of course, I have no idea how to score something like this, and this would be completely subjective, but when we talk about how intelligent someone is, isnt that a purely subjective thing? However I find that often you see the true nature of someones intellect (or at least the surface of it) when you argue with them. Anyway, this is just a random, wild, caffine induced idea which would have absolutely no merit in the actual measurement and ranking of a persons intellect, but would at least be fun for those involved.

[GreyWanderer]

Originally posted by Ike
Here's one idea. Give subjective measures of intelligence by having the subject argue with the test-giver on a few topics that they likely havent given much thought. Or even to use a topic on which the testee has a set opinion over, but make them take the opposite side. Of course, I have no idea how to score something like this, and this would be completely subjective, but when we talk about how intelligent someone is, isnt that a purely subjective thing? However I find that often you see the true nature of someones intellect (or at least the surface of it) when you argue with them. Anyway, this is just a random, wild, caffine induced idea which would have absolutely no merit in the actual measurement and ranking of a persons intellect, but would at least be fun for those involved.

I think the problem is more about defining intelligence.

[Denise]

Originally posted by GreyWanderer


I think the problem is more about defining intelligence.

Exactly. One man's idiot is another man's genius. It's all silly really. What matters is how we contribute to our community. A huge brainiac that just posts to internet forums does nothing for the greater good of humanity, but a person of average "intelligence" who contributes by spending time with children etc. does much more.

[chapka]

Originally posted by lyghtningbyrd
Yeah, I guess you could have a field day reporting all the people who are or were in MENSA. I still think its gay.

Just a reminder. Groups like ACT UP, Stonewall, and GLAAD are gay. Please stop and think about how offensive it is when you use "gay" as a synonym for "stupid and/or disgusting". I know you probably meant no bias by this, just like people who say "indian giver," but you should understand what it sounds like to the person on the other end.

On topic: anyone who hasn't already (and it sounds like quite a few of you have) should read Gould's The Mismeasure of Man. Maybe if we got rid of this IQ fetish we all seem to have, we could get a decent system of trade schools for young people in this country.

[Ruby]

Originally posted by Marvel Frozen
I just took the IQ test at www.intelligencetest.com, and got a 140.

It gave me 141.

[Ruby]

Originally posted by Denise


Exactly. One man's idiot is another man's genius. It's all silly really. What matters is how we contribute to our community. A huge brainiac that just posts to internet forums does nothing for the greater good of humanity, but a person of average "intelligence" who contributes by spending time with children etc. does much more.

You are SO right. I consider myself of average intelligence...though my husband, and my friends seem to think otherwise. Anyhow, I am a lowly homemaker who cannot impress anyone with a great career or college degrees. I find so much on JREF to be over my head....and yet, I do grasp most things on some level!:D

[hammegk]

Originally posted by chapka

...anyone who hasn't already (and it sounds like quite a few of you have) should read Gould's The Mismeasure of Man. Maybe if we got rid of this IQ fetish we all seem to have, we could get a decent system of trade schools for young people in this country.

Gould stretched the facts to fit pc'lib ideology. Maybe you should read some of the rebuttals to Mismeasure. ;)

[Hellcat]

So the general consensus( except a few for other reasons or misreading) is that many of you agree with me on IQ testing. It is not an accurate or reliable source and less emphasis should be placed on it.

Also the more you do these tests, the more it appears that your IQ increases( stands to reason), along par with those who for a living if it can be called that, do the rounds of quiz game(general knowledge type of shows) one after another.

Personally I wold say the more you use your brain in a specific way the more it develops stop and it returns to 'supposed normal' .

Does anybody know if after a London taxi driver by way of example that have huge hipocampus's does it shrink when they quit the business?