Exercise and fainting?

[Luciana]

I googled for it but found way too much information and I couldn't wade through those long words. So please keep it simple.

I've been in a 1,200 calorie diet for about 10 days. Quite simple: lean meat, veggies, legumes, fruits and some milk in very small portions. No problems here, I've done this before and it always worked.

Last Wednesday I exercised for nearly 2 hours (water workout + underwater spinning) and about half an hour later I felt dizzy and nauseated. But I forgot about it later. Then on Friday the same thing happened, only this time I got drenched in sweat and was very close to passing out completely. I was in juice shop and looked around to see if there was any hot strong guy to support me if I fell, so that I could sigh and look all delicate and helpless, but there wasn't any, so you see how frustrating the whole experience was. :fg: Kidding aside, it's just an overall unpleasant experience and I'm not used to this.

I'm not in any medication and I'm not diabetic or have any heart condition. I had those checked last year when my father had heart problems. That's why it's so problematic to find good info, google just wants to convince me I have to have those to nearly faint after exercise. :D Oh, and my blood pressure has always been in the normal range.

I gather there is something missing in my diet? Basically, how can I do cardio for two hours without fainting like a Victorian virgin later?

[TheChadd]

How are you excercising? is it on one of those treadmills?
The constant attempts to walk forward without moving seem to confuse your brain then when you get off you feel like you're still moving forward / you're dizy.

[Luciana]

How are you excercising? is it on one of those treadmills?
The constant attempts to walk forward without moving seem to confuse your brain then when you get off you feel like you're still moving forward / you're dizy.

Nope, it's a bike, because it's underwater, but the strange thing is that both times I felt dizzy some good 30 minutes later (after showering, changing, walking 2 blocks) and it was more than dizziness, it was a distinct feeling of "my legs won't hold me and I'll fall soon".

[CFLarsen]

I've been in a 1,200 calorie diet for about 10 days.

...why?

[rjh01]

How can you exercise underwater with a bike?

Are you keeping up your fluids? Weigh yourself before and after exercises. You should not have gained or lost any weight. Any weight change is due to water.

If you cannot work out the reason you can go see a doctor.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I don't know exactly why it happens but it happens to me whenever I train for a long amount of time.


What helps is taking breaks every few minutes and keeping your body fueled with the nutrients it needs.

Drinking a gatoraid helps 100%. Also a snack in the middle of the work out like an energy bar helps alot too.


Don't tain a few hours straight drinking only water. Water doesn't have the nutrients that your body has been burning during workout and needs.

[Luciana]

Claus - to lose a couple of kilos, that's why.

How can you exercise underwater with a bike?

It looks like this (http://www.isokineticsinc.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/fotosub2_sm.jpg).

Are you keeping up your fluids? Weigh yourself before and after exercises. You should not have gained or lost any weight. Any weight change is due to water.

This is complicated because my swimsuit will be drenched after the workout, but not before. :) And I always drink lots, lots, lots of water. But maybe not enough! Underwater workout fools you because you don't feel the sweat trickling down your neck, and yet you are sweating. But I wonder if lack of fluids is the whole story.

[CFLarsen]

Claus - to lose a couple of kilos, that's why.

Well, duh! :p

If you lose weight, the police will report you missing.

[Luciana]

Drinking a gatoraid helps 100%. Also a snack in the middle of the work out like an energy bar helps alot too.

Man, how can you eat and exercise at the same time?? I can eat only up to an hour before, and it must be sth light, otherwise I get reflux or the food gets stuck and weighs half a ton and I can't bend at all or... else. :D I could try Gatorade (though I'm unhappy to get those extra calories...) if that's what it takes...

[El Greco]

I wouldn't worry, looks to me like lactic acid "poisoning". Basically this means that lactic acid is being produced at a rate higher than it can be cleared, the pH drops and you experience these symptoms. If you are healthy and you can put up with this, then you don't need to avoid it. In fact many athletes strive to achieve this because this is how they improve their "lactate threshold". In a few workouts your LT will have improved (you will be clearing lactate faster) or your lactate tolerance will increase. Ways to avoid it: Drink a few carbohydrates during exercise. Or don't exercise the big leg muscles together with the rest of the body. Or wait longer between sets. Or split the exercise bouts in smaller periods.

I actually like that feeling, but then I'm a pervert :D

[Aardvark]

I am not convined that fluid intake is the full story here.

In your description of your diet, you do not mention any long or short chain carbs.

1 The use of Gatoraid, I would not recommend because although you get a big hit of sugar to the blood, you get a corresponding massive rise in serum insulin level. This may persist past the suagr load, this leads to futher hypogycaemia or low bllod sugar which again may cause fainting. Too much insulin is a bad thing as it acts a littte like an anabolic compound. Look at most Middle age NIDDM or type 2 diabetics and they are often overweight, this is because they have too much insulin and high insulin resistance with poor signalling.

2 Get some urine sticks and test your urine for ketones. On a low carb diet, your blood sugar is not maintained by carbs in the diet but by your liver making them from scratch by smashing up fatty acids tha it pulls from the blood stream. We call this gluco -neo -genesis or new glucose manufacture, the word is actually not hyphenated as I have done , gluconeogenesis. If this is the case, ketone bodies will be excreted in the urine and on the breath, do you have stinky breath like people on the Atkins diet?

3 Your symptoms may be due to an electrolite or salt imbalance. It is likley that you are loosing too much potassium.

4 You could make your symptoms better by eating a long chain carb load one hour before excercise. May I suggest a smoothy made from Banana, ice and skimmed milk. The banana will give longer chain carbs and supply potassium. Equally, after excercise this would help to relieve the symptoms.

5 See a physician

[El Greco]

1 The use of Gatoraid, I would not recommend because although you get a big hit of sugar to the blood, you get a corresponding massive rise in serum insulin level. This may persist past the suagr load, this leads to futher hypogycaemia or low bllod sugar which again may cause fainting.

Not during exercise. Catecholamines prevent dramatic blood sugar drops.

Too much insulin is a bad thing as it acts a littte like an anabolic compound. Look at most Middle age NIDDM or type 2 diabetics and they are often overweight, this is because they have too much insulin and high insulin resistance with poor signalling.

They are not overweight because of their insulin resistance, they are because they eat too much.

You could make your symptoms better by eating a long chain carb load one hour before excercise.

Long chain/short chain has absolutely nothing to do with bioavailability or glycemic index.

[Aardvark]

Chicken and egg on the weight thing.

Which came first, poor insulin signalling or overweight.

Type 2 diabetics are missing the early phase insulin release. It is this spike which switched the liver from output mode to storage mode. They end up with sugar hitting the blood from the diet at the same time as sugar is hitting the blood from the liver, this leads to hyperglycaemia. The second phase of insulin release is then extended and overshoots leading to hyperinsulinaemia and again hypoglycaemia, leading to hunger and eating.

I have seen trilas where early detection of insulin signalling problems has identified NIDDM before they are overweight and before sympotoms would have taken them to consult their Physician.

Are you suggesting that long chain carbs and short chain carbs are absorbed at the same rate from the gut??

What is the physiological mechinsim by which catecholamines prevent blood serum blood sugar drop during excercise??

How would this be impacted upon if liver and muscle glycogen stores are depleted as would occur on a low carb diet??

[politas]

I've been in a 1,200 calorie diet for about 10 days. Quite simple: lean meat, veggies, legumes, fruits and some milk in very small portions. No problems here, I've done this before and it always worked.

Isn't a normal colorific intake around 2,000 per day (http://www.medindia.net/patients/calculators/dly_calorie_req.asp)? 1,200 is a pretty severe starvation diet, and would quite easily explain faintness after heavy exercise.

[El Greco]

Chicken and egg on the weight thing.

Which came first, poor insulin signalling or overweight.

Type 2 diabetics are missing the early phase insulin release. It is this spike which switched the liver from output mode to storage mode. They end up with sugar hitting the blood from the diet at the same time as sugar is hitting the blood from the liver, this leads to hyperglycaemia. The second phase of insulin release is then extended and overshoots leading to hyperinsulinaemia and again hypoglycaemia, leading to hunger and eating.

Wrong causation. If we are to blame hunger for overeating then we can justify every obese person. Others may have disturbed NPY levels, others high leptin resistance, etc. ETA: There are extremely lean diabetics who have completed Ironman events...

Are you suggesting that long chain carbs and short chain carbs are absorbed at the same rate from the gut??

Not only that, they may even get absorbed faster. It depends on a lot of factors, some of them unpredictable. See this page (http://www.mendosa.com/gi.htm). Long chain/ Short chain is a superannuated categorization as far as the speed of raising blood sugar is concerned. Read the above page.

What is the physiological mechinsim by which catecholamines prevent blood serum blood sugar drop during excercise??

Mainly through hepatic gluconeogenesis, but also by stimulating glycogenolysis in skeletal muscle and liver.

How would this be impacted upon if liver and muscle gycogen stores are depleted as would occur on a low carb diet??

Irrelevant. Depleted or not, with a readily available carb source the lactic acid poisoning effects would be attenuated.

[Camillus]

Exercising in water may also be a factor. Water compresses the peripheral circulation and so the normal effects of hypovolaemia (caused in your case by exercise dehydration) are offset to some extent. It also prevents adequate clearence of lactate from the affected areas.

Once you leave the water and your circulation begins to return to normal in the peripheries any dehydration effects and post exercise lactate effects will be exagerated.

This is one of the reasons that crews generally try and rescue people who have been immersed in water in the horizontal position even if they appear well on scene.

[rjh01]

Slight derail - For what reason do you do your exercises in water?

[NeilC]

Your diet doesn't mention many carbs other than the fruit and veg. Does it contain starches like potatoes, rice, bread etc?

Is it possible you didn't take in many carbs that day?

Also, I used to do some fairly manic swimming training that had lots of sprints and some hypoxic training. I used to really go for it. When I got out of the pool I would get an immediate colourful migrane and feel very hot. I learned to get back into the water to cool off for 10 mins before trying to leave.

[Bikewer]

I agree with some of the other posters, this sounds very much like "bonking" as we cyclists say. When you do aerobic exercise for long periods, it's essential to maintain fluid intake and maintain levels of nutrients in the bloodstream. Exercising in water will you give you a false sense of your perspiration, and it's very easy to get to a state where all the symptoms you describe occur.

Happens to highly-trained athletes as well.

[Physiotherapist]

I think the purpose of training in water is the increased resistance, so that you get a better training effect. However, surely the same effect could be obtained by going to the gym and using the weights and then doing cardiovascular work?

[Crossbow]

I googled for it but found way too much information and I couldn't wade through those long words. So please keep it simple.

I've been in a 1,200 calorie diet for about 10 days. Quite simple: lean meat, veggies, legumes, fruits and some milk in very small portions. No problems here, I've done this before and it always worked.

Last Wednesday I exercised for nearly 2 hours (water workout + underwater spinning) and about half an hour later I felt dizzy and nauseated. But I forgot about it later. Then on Friday the same thing happened, only this time I got drenched in sweat and was very close to passing out completely. I was in juice shop and looked around to see if there was any hot strong guy to support me if I fell, so that I could sigh and look all delicate and helpless, but there wasn't any, so you see how frustrating the whole experience was. :fg: Kidding aside, it's just an overall unpleasant experience and I'm not used to this.

I'm not in any medication and I'm not diabetic or have any heart condition. I had those checked last year when my father had heart problems. That's why it's so problematic to find good info, google just wants to convince me I have to have those to nearly faint after exercise. :D Oh, and my blood pressure has always been in the normal range.

I gather there is something missing in my diet? Basically, how can I do cardio for two hours without fainting like a Victorian virgin later?

Perhaps your problem is that you are trying to exercise too much and too soon.

If you have not been regularly exercising at you the level you discuss, then an intense and extended workout coupled with a new diet program could cause the fainting and nausea problems you have been having. So try this, keep to your diet but use a shorter and less intense workout. Then, gradually work up to a longer and longer workout.

Please be careful, do not over do it, and if you keep having problems, then see a doctor.

[strathmeyer]

Claus - to lose a couple of kilos, that's why.

Most people want to lose fat, and not muscle.

[Deetee]

You have exercise-induced hypoglycaemia. Other posters above have indicated some of the metabolic background predisposing you to this. Basically your liver is unable to generate sufficient glucose (through gluconeogenesis) for your requirements. Your symptoms are fairly classical for hypoglycaemia, especially the dizziness, weakness and sweating.

See here (http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:i2X605TjMLMJ:www.acsm-essr.org/pt/re/essr/fulltext.00003677-200501000-00004.htm%3Bjsessionid%3DDH1lbEZbDhmyUaeNL72G87E78 rUZf5Gpqxgl4Hm1v31SitOqqCW7!400681292!-949856144!9001!-1+%22exercise-induced%22+hypoglycemia&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=9) and here (http://www.alfediam.org/media/pdf/RevueBrunD&M2-2001.pdf). (The uncached page is inaccessible)

[Luciana]

Thanks, everybody. Some of you used words a tad too long, and lots of lingo that were entirely lost on me... but I guess I got the gist of it.

Why underwater workout? Because it was a fun and low-impact way of resuming exercise, something I slacked last year. And my gym is too crowded this day. You end up spending an hour on what you could do in 35 minutes just because you're taking turns in the equipment. And you can't even stretch without bumping into people.

In the past I have nearly passed out while at the treadmill (quite a few times, actually) but then it's only a matter of stopping and calling it a day. What I found strange this time is that the feeling came almost 30 minutes later, even though I felt perfectly fine while exercising. So if there's no warning, how am I supposed to know if I'm overdoing it?

Anyway, it's refreshing to know it's nothing really worrisome, though I'll sure try and avoid it. Unlike some perverts, I don't fancy reaching the point of nearly collapsing. If only it involved good wine. :re: :D

politas: you find 1,200 too few calories? It's not, I assure you, because I want to lose weight. Actually, I wish I could keep this number forever, not for weight loss, but because eating small portions make me feel so much sharper. But I have a sweet tooth, unfortunately. It's a wonderful feeling to get ready to bed and find out I have some 300 calories to "use". Pass me the Oreos! No, kidding, but it goes to show that once you take your mind off food, 1,200 calories can even seem excessive. :)

Greco: "Or don't exercise the big leg muscles together with the rest of the body." That's complicated in a bike, specially if I'm standing up with most of my body out of the water. So it's a lot of it in the quads.

I'll try Gatorade while exercising next time.

[Soapy Sam]

Or fish and chips afterwards.
It worked for Alf Tupper.

[thaiboxerken]

Need pictures of Luciana in a swimsuit to really get a grasp on what the problem is.

[rdaneel]

All those big words and they missed the most important reason to avoid Gatorade.

IT'S AWFUL!!

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Trust me...Gatoraid is the key.

Also i'm not talking about eating a big meal. Just a power bar. Something small. You don't even need to eat all of it.



Do your workout and bring along a bottle of gatoraid. Once you start to feel faint and sick feeling then take a drink of the gatoriaid and rest a few minutes and it will go away.

Try it.

It will work

[joe87]

Maybe you should try some canned oxygen (http://www.randi.org/forumlive/showthread.php?t=56893) when you feel faint. :D
Have you taken your pulse and blood pressure when you feel faint? Get a blood pressure monitor and see if your pressure gets very low, or your pulse is very slow or fast. That may give your doctors a clue as to what is happening. You REALLY should get a stress EKG test, to rule out heart abnormalities - you can have those at any age. Also, go off your diet for a week and see if the problem gets better.

[Doubt]

All those big words and they missed the most important reason to avoid Gatorade.

IT'S AWFUL!!

True. Mostly when warm. But I still use it. There are other choices these days.

Hypoglycaemia is the most likely cause. You need to replace some of those calories you are burning right after the workout. Not a lot of food, but something with some suger and protein right after the workout. By right after I mean well under an hour afterwards.

And stay hydrated. You will lose fluids working out in the water. I don't know the mechanics of the fluid loss, but I have experienced it enough.

Having a sports drink during a one hour workout would not be a bad thing, but I bet they don't allow you to do that since the spinning is done in the water. However a sports drink may not really be needed assuming the rest of your diet is okay and the duration of the workout is not to long.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

The people telling you not to use gatoraid have no personal experience with working out. I do.

Try it and it will work.

[Doubt]

The people telling you not to use gatoraid have no personal experience with working out. I do.

Try it and it will work.

No. Many of them have tried other sports drinks that taste better.

I still use gatoriad because my stomach is used to it and it is available at most of the longer races I do.

Also most people engaged in moderate physical activity don't need it. Those that are only doing moderate activity and do need it should take a closer look at their diet.

[El Greco]

Cold sweat and weakness are indeed symptoms of hypoglycemia but dizziness and nausea are much more characteristic of lactic acidosis.

Anyway, a sports drink during exercise or some other carbs pre-exercise may prevent that. A sports drink of course need not be a commercial one, it can be anything with 6-8% carbohydrates (when I want one I usually make my own with glucose and water). You could add protein or fruits or make it more or less thick, depending on what exactly you're after but this is rather off-topic.

Or you could get used to training in that state, it shouldn't take too long and the symptoms will subside.

[Hellbound]

When I was working out heavily (admittedly for gaining mass rather than weight loss), I'd make "shakes" of skim milk and fresh fruit for drinking after my workout. I usually added by protein powders and such to this :).

But anyway, might be an idea.

El Greco: I'd have to disagree with you that nausea and dizziness are not symptoms of hypoglycemia. In fact, these usually affect me before the weakness, and I've never gotten cold sweats (this is in non-exercise hypoglycemic situations). From webmd (http://www.webmd.com/hw/diabetes_1_2/rt1055.asp?pagenumber=3):Mild hypoglycemia can cause nausea, a jittery or nervous feeling, cold and clammy skin, and a rapid heartbeat.

Moderate hypoglycemia often makes you feel irritable, anxious, or confused. You may have blurred vision, feel unsteady, and have difficulty walking.

[Mrs. Hmmphries]

Isn't a normal colorific intake around 2,000 per day (http://www.medindia.net/patients/calculators/dly_calorie_req.asp)? 1,200 is a pretty severe starvation diet, and would quite easily explain faintness after heavy exercise.


Actually, that depends on her size to begin with.
2000 sounds about right for an active, adult male.

When I was pregnant and breast feeding, my doctor recommended uping my calorie intake by about 250 calories (to 1500 calories) a day. I hardly think cutting 50 calories qualifies as a "severe starvation diet".

[Deetee]

Luciana, apart from the hypoglycaemia and dehydration, be aware that if you hyperventilate (as some people can do during intense workouts) you will blow off too much CO2 (from the lungs, you people!) making your blood more alkaline, which results in the familiar symptoms of dizziness, disorientation and cramps/tingling in the extremities.

Perhaps you are experiencing a mix of overlapping symptoms from all 3 of these conditions.

[Luciana]

On Monday I only exercised for one hour and today will be the same, because I'm dealing with the flu. So chances are I won't know until Friday if Gatorade and a power bar will allow me to workout and not worry about collapsing like a Victorian lady later (but I'm sure they preferred horseback riding to water workout).

Around here it's common to see people carrying bottles with coconut water, which apparently also hydrates faster than water, and it's, uh, natural, but that has a higher fat content, so I'm skipping it for now.

I found out they have bottle-holders for the bikes, so you can just ask to have those installed. I feel so unsmart for not having paid attention...

Huntsman - juice shops are big in Rio exactly because after workout everybody goes get some. They come up with the weirdest mixtures and yeah, lots of those protein powders. I was after a beet-carrot-acerola juice when the world started to spin around me. :)

[blutoski]

Actually, that depends on her size to begin with.
2000 sounds about right for an active, adult male.

When I was pregnant and breast feeding, my doctor recommended uping my calorie intake by about 250 calories (to 1500 calories) a day. I hardly think cutting 50 calories qualifies as a "severe starvation diet".

Yes, that's a common mistake. I'm an active male, but below average height, and I've determined that I maintain at about 12-1300cal/day.

I up it when I'm training two workouts a day, or doing an open-water swim on the weekend, but only to about 1500cal.

[Hellbound]

Around here it's common to see people carrying bottles with coconut water, which apparently also hydrates faster than water, and it's, uh, natural, but that has a higher fat content, so I'm skipping it for now.

Just wanted to address this. To my knowledge, nothing hydrates faster than water. Gatorade hydrates you slower, coconut water hydrates you slower, etc, etc,. When treating dehydration, we would give Normal Saline (water at a salt concentration equal to the body, about .9% IIRC), not Lactated Ringer's (which is basically gatorade IV without sugar, has added electrolytes).

Reason being, your cells absorb water via osmosis, and it's controlled by the relative concentrations inside the cell vs. outside. This is also the reason overhydration can cause problems (drinking too much water without getting food/salts.electrolytes), because the cells keep absorbing water long after they reached the amount they need (can cause brain swelling and eventual death).

In any case, pure water has a lower concentration of solute than water+anything, and gets absorbed more quickly.

Now, I'm willing to be shown I'm wrong in this, but to date, I've not found evidence of it (a lot of claims from various people selling miracle drinks, but no evidence). IF anyone more knowledgable can weigh in on it, feel free :)

[Aardvark]

).

Around here it's common to see people carrying bottles with coconut water, which apparently also hydrates faster than water, and it's, uh, natural, but that has a higher fat content, so I'm skipping it for now.

:)

I am not sure of terminolgy here, but the clear liquid that comes from the inside of a coconut has some sugars and salts only, no fat.

Fats and oils do not mix with water, you would see a cloudy or muddy drink.

However if you press the white flesh of the coconut, you get a white milky liquid which we call coconut milk in the UK and this does contain oil.

Oils and fats are the same in most ways, except oils are in a liquid state at room termperiture, and fats are still solid.

I would still recommend you to make up your own drink with either water or fruit and water. I always avoid manufactured sugar, sucrose or corn syrup containing drinks, plus if you make your own with fruit, you are getting a portion of anti oxidant vitamins and friut sugars or fructoses which are less damaging to teeth than glucose or sucrose.

Just wait and watch me get shot down for these comments!!!!

We rely too much on convenience manufactured foods, why eat a food bar, nature makes them for you, nuts, bananas, seeds, sultanas or raisins from california.

When I ride my bike I do not use Gatorade, I drink water and carry fruit.

[El Greco]

El Greco: I'd have to disagree with you that nausea and dizziness are not symptoms of hypoglycemia.

But I didn't say they are not symptoms of hypoglycemia, I said they are much more symptoms of lactic acidosis. Notwithstanding that all symptoms are of course highly individualized (eg I've never felt nauseous or dizzy when hypoglycaemic), it is nevertheless common that feeling so dizzy that you have to sit down and so nauseous that you actually have to vomit are characteristics of the lactic acid "poisoning".

[El Greco]

In any case, pure water has a lower concentration of solute than water+anything, and gets absorbed more quickly.

Now, I'm willing to be shown I'm wrong in this, but to date, I've not found evidence of it (a lot of claims from various people selling miracle drinks, but no evidence). IF anyone more knowledgable can weigh in on it, feel free :)

There are other factors besides osmosis (like gastrointestinal discomfort etc) which make pure water not the best solution. I'll dig up the studies when I get home.

[El Greco]

I always avoid manufactured sugar, sucrose or corn syrup containing drinks, plus if you make your own with fruit, you are getting a portion of anti oxidant vitamins and friut sugars or fructoses which are less damaging to teeth than glucose or sucrose.

Just wait and watch me get shot down for these comments!!!!

Well... :D

I don't disagree, but fructose often causes gi problems in athletes and besides, fruits (especially ripe ones) do contain a lot of glucose themselves.

[Doubt]

There are other factors besides osmosis (like gastrointestinal discomfort etc) which make pure water not the best solution. I'll dig up the studies when I get home.

Not sure if I have it right or not, but one of the things affecting the osmosis of water from the stomach is the sodium level in your blood. If you are already low on electrolytes it will take longer to absorb the water in your stomach. Even if your initial absorbtin rate is faster with just water, it won't stay that way.

Ancedote: At Ironman florida in 2002 I was part of a group of 4 people traveling to the race from my club. Two of us did not use salt tablets during the race and the other two did. The two of us that did not use the tablets reported water sloshing around in thier stomachs at the end of the race. (That was after about 12.5 hours of racing in my case.) The other two that did use them did not experience that feeling at the end. Other than the tablets, we consumed similar amounts of Gatoraid, energy bars, etc. Doing another Ironman this year. I will have salt tablets this time.

[Doubt]

Well... :D

I don't disagree, but fructose often causes gi problems in athletes and besides, fruits (especially ripe ones) do contain a lot of glucose themselves.

I have read about the gi problems caused by fructose but have yet to experience them. I often use honey as a cheap replacement for energy gels. The gel packs cost about a dollar for 1.1 oz. I can buy a lot of honey for the same money.

I am not sure if I have either just been lucky or is there some element of adaptation involved.

[Hellbound]

There are other factors besides osmosis (like gastrointestinal discomfort etc) which make pure water not the best solution. I'll dig up the studies when I get home.

Cool, I'd like to see them. It may be that I'm misremembering, as well. I knwo this is true for IV fluids (Normal Saline rehydrates faster than any alternatives), but it may be that this does not apply to drinking, and I'm confusing two issues :)

But I didn't say they are not symptoms of hypoglycemia, I said they are much more symptoms of lactic acidosis. Notwithstanding that all symptoms are of course highly individualized (eg I've never felt nauseous or dizzy when hypoglycaemic), it is nevertheless common that feeling so dizzy that you have to sit down and so nauseous that you actually have to vomit are characteristics of the lactic acid "poisoning".

My fault, then, I misread your statement. Howefver, considering the amount of exercise and that she's on a restricted diet, I'd tend to lean towards low sugar myself. Of course, it's easy enough to test...eat something :D

[Luciana]

I am not sure of terminolgy here, but the clear liquid that comes from the inside of a coconut has some sugars and salts only, no fat.
Fats and oils do not mix with water, you would see a cloudy or muddy drink.

But coconut water can be cloudy and muddy. :)

The water of a young ("green") coconut is transparent, nearly tasteless (if not slightly salty) and with little to no fat.

The older the coconut gets, the denser the water becomes, and then it's deliciously sweet and cloudy. A single coconut can make you feel bloated if it's old enough. Those are the best. But fatty. You get coconut water in every other corner of Rio. :)

However if you press the white flesh of the coconut, you get a white milky liquid which we call coconut milk in the UK and this does contain oil.

Yep, that's coconut milk, a staple in Thai food. Very fatty and delicious.

We rely too much on convenience manufactured foods, why eat a food bar, nature makes them for you, nuts, bananas, seeds, sultanas or raisins from california.

When I ride my bike I do not use Gatorade, I drink water and carry fruit.

I consider one of the advantages of living in a tropical country the availability, freshness and taste of fruits. In other countries you get a dozen fruits with multiple recipes. That's fine, and some have a wonderful taste... but around here there are more fruits than I could name, and they keep bringing novel things from China! Walking home from work I pass multiple stands, so I'm always buying stuff. I envy those who can eat while exercising, so if that's you case, then I envy you. :)

[Aardvark]

Hi Luciana,

I am a working class bloke from industrial North England, it takes a lot to stop me eating.

Lads with whom I hyave ridden before have eaten full fry ups of eggs, bacon, sausage with tea and toast within an hour of starting a ride or within an hour of finishing.

By restricting my eating to bananas, apples, plums, peaches etc at least I am trying to avoid an early death from CHD

[EHocking]

Nope, it's a bike, because it's underwater, but the strange thing is that both times I felt dizzy some good 30 minutes later (after showering, changing, walking 2 blocks) and it was more than dizziness, it was a distinct feeling of "my legs won't hold me and I'll fall soon".My wife had this problem, and her trainer pointed out that blood pressure is key to this. Read through this (http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec03/ch023/ch023b.html) (ignoring the scary stuff about heart conditions and diseases) and you will find that there are a number "conditions" that could be causing this.

Note that I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on internet, but my wife was recommended to have a quick check by a doctor to determine what was the problem. In a complete flip of "common" knowledge, her blood pressure drops while she's exercising.

In the first instance, I don't think you have to worry, but it is probably a good idea to find out what is causing this condition.

[CriticalThanking]

Luciana,

I know you are just looking to drop some weight quickly, but I'd still suggest you get a heart rate monitor and see what is going on during your exercise regimen. It does take a while to figure out what is "normal" for you. There are lots of websites that will tell you all about max heart rates and recommended aerobic ranges, etc. You may find a common thread on days you have the fainting reaction you describe.

If you get serious about regular training, I would even recommend paying for metabolic testing. Find out accurately what heart rates work for you. You may be working far harder than you should. El Greco accurately described working on your lactate threshold. But everyone has a different genetic range/limit to work with. How careful were you in choosing your parents? :)

I would also second the idea that you experiment with different fuels during a workout. 2 hours is a long time to go with nothing but water. Everyone is different. Some can deal with gels, while others can only take things in true liquid form. I can tolerate most anything, even solid foods on the bike as long as I have not already bonked. But very few gels will, um.... "stay with me" during a run. And you only find these things out the hard way.

CriticalThanking

[CriticalThanking]

And I am very jealous of the availability of good fruit there. Congrats.

CT

[El Greco]

The voluntary rehydration:

Consuming highly palatable flavored beverages facilitates voluntary rehydration. Voluntary rehydration using three beverages was studied in boys after exercise dehydration during heat exposure: (1) plain water, (2) grape-flavored water, or (3) grape-flavored water containing 6% carbohydrate and 18 mmol * L-1 NaCl. The flavored carbohydrate-electrolyte drink elicited the largest total voluntary fluid intake (1157 mL), followed by the flavored drink (1112mL), with the smallest volume recorded for plain water (610 mL).

Ok, I quoted the above just for the sake of completeness. Now salt:

Because the kidneys continually form urine, the volume of ingested fluid following exercise must be larger (usually by 25 to 50%) than exercise sweat loss to restore fluid balance. However, unless the beverage contains a sufficiently high sodium content, excess fluid intake merely increases urine output with no benefit to rehydration. Pure water absorbed from the gut rapidly dilutes plasma sodium concetration. A decrease in plasma osmolality, in turn, stimulates urine production and blunts the normal sodium-dependent stimulation of the thirst mechanism. Maintaining a relatively high plasma concetration of sodium (by adding a moderate amount of sodium to ingested fluid) sustains the thirst drive, promotes retention of ingested fluids (less urine output), and more rapidly restores lost plasma volume during rehydration.

Hyponatremia:

The exercise physiology literature contains more than adequate information about the need to consume fluid before, during and after exercise. In many instances the recommended beverage remains plain, hypotonic water. However, we now know that excessive fluid intake under certain conditions may actually be counterproductive, producing a potentially serious medical complication hyponatremia or "water intoxication". Symptoms range from mild (headache, confusion malaise, nausea, cramping) to severe (seizures, coma, pulmonary edema, and death).

The likely scenario most conductive to hyponatremia includes high intensity, ultramarathon-type, continuous exercise lasting for 6 to 8 hours duration, although it can occur in only 4 hours.

...and glucose:

To reduce the risk of hyponatremia in prolonged exercise we recommend refraining from overhydration, that is, do not consume more than 1000mL*hr-1 of plain water either before, during or after exercise, and add a small amount of sodium (approximately 25 mEq*L-1) to the ingested fluid. Also, the inclusion of some glucose in the rehydration drink facilitates intestinal water uptake via the glucose-sodium transport mechanism.

Fructose:

Athletes should not substitute exogenous fructose for glucose during prolonged exercise because less fructose oxidizes when equivalent amounts are consumed during prolonged exercise.

Fructose is absorbed more slowly from the gut than either glucose or sucrose, causing only minimal insulin response with essentially no decline in blood glucose. These observations have stimulated debate about whether fructose might be a beneficial immediate pre-exercise exogenous carbohydrate fuel source for prolonged exercise.
Although the theoretical rationale for fructose appears plausible, its exercise benefits remain inconclusive. From a practical standpoint, consuming a high-fructose beverage often produces significant gastrointestinal distress (vomiting and diarrhea), which in itself negatively impacts exercise performance. Once absorbed by the small intestine, fructose must first be transported to the liver for conversion to glucose. This further limits how quickly fructose becomes available for use by the body as an energy source.

There are of course lots of info on ergogenic benefits of carbohydrate feeding during exercise which is not directly related to the issue of rehydration but if you are going to take carbs and water anyway you could as well take them together.

All of the above quotes from "Sports & Exercise Nutrition" by McArdle, Katch & Katch. There are references to studies available for most of the above quotes. If I'm not too bored I'll look later in a couple of other books as well.

ETA: Fluid replacement during and after exercise in the heat. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=2607945&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_DocSum)
Carbohydrate and fluid ingestion during exercise: are there trade-offs? (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1602939&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_DocSum)
Should carbohydrate concentration of a sports drink be less than 8% during exercise in the heat? (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16089271&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum)

[Hellbound]

Cool, thanks.

Makes sense now that I see the mechanisms...although the first link you posted seemed to have more to do with psychology than physiology :) But the second quote makes some good points. So something in the .9% range seems to be what you're looking for.

Although the hyponatremia seems specific to long-term exercise, but the glucose information in that seems to support the idea that glucose helps out.

I'll bow to your knowledge on this :)

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I find it funny people like El Greco are arguing all of these scientific details about exercise yet looking at his avatar it doesn't look he even exercises!



Did you try what I asked? Whoever posted this thread? Did it work? I bet it did.

[El Greco]

Dustin, you have posted a lot of stupid things in reply to several posts of mine and others, but I have let it go so far realizing your diminished intellectual capacity. I remind you the first thread you started on bodybuilding (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=32192) where it is evident that you are not only athletically, but also socially and mentally impaired. I also remind you that I have posted pictures of mine in that thread of yours while you didn't because you were afraid that gays would use them for masturbation material. Need I need remind you the relevant poll as well ? So STFU, dear Dustin, because my patience is not as unlimited as your imbecility. Please don't interpret my reluctance to answer to you in may occasions so far as weakness.

[plindboe]

I googled for it but found way too much information and I couldn't wade through those long words. So please keep it simple.

I've been in a 1,200 calorie diet for about 10 days. Quite simple: lean meat, veggies, legumes, fruits and some milk in very small portions. No problems here, I've done this before and it always worked.

Last Wednesday I exercised for nearly 2 hours (water workout + underwater spinning) and about half an hour later I felt dizzy and nauseated. But I forgot about it later. Then on Friday the same thing happened, only this time I got drenched in sweat and was very close to passing out completely. I was in juice shop and looked around to see if there was any hot strong guy to support me if I fell, so that I could sigh and look all delicate and helpless, but there wasn't any, so you see how frustrating the whole experience was. :fg: Kidding aside, it's just an overall unpleasant experience and I'm not used to this.

I'm not in any medication and I'm not diabetic or have any heart condition. I had those checked last year when my father had heart problems. That's why it's so problematic to find good info, google just wants to convince me I have to have those to nearly faint after exercise. :D Oh, and my blood pressure has always been in the normal range.

I gather there is something missing in my diet? Basically, how can I do cardio for two hours without fainting like a Victorian virgin later?

I haven't read the thread, so others have probably provided fine answers already, but here is my reply anyway. I have tried feeling like this several times, it can be rather unpleasant. It's actually fairly well-known and common among people who train seriously. Happens because the body doesn't have enough energy. It's important to eat a decent meal(in your case 400-500 kcal) 1-2 hours before the work-out, with a good amount of carbs(oatmeal, rice, pasta, bread). 2 hours is a long way to work out, so you can supplement with a drink that contains some quickly digestable carbs. Instead of an expensive sports drink, just add some sugar to a bottle of water and drink a little throughout the workout. Not only is it much cheaper, but those fancy sport drinks usually contain much more energy than your body really needs, and isn't optimal during a diet. Just some thoughts, that I hope can help.

[Luciana]

Well, update... on Friday I screwed up completely, that is, showed up to work out at 7pm, having had a light lunch at noon, and I was late to think of anything. I thought "guys at JREF can't hear about this" :D so I rushed into a juice shop and bought papaya+orange+acerola and took half of it before class and the other half in a 10-minute interval I gave myself. So I worked out two hours with no problem. The problem was later :D when I felt again dizzy and nauseated... but I was home already. Well, it helped that I knew (after some of you used small words to explain to me) that it is not necessarily a bad thing.

On Monday I paid more attention and had a power bar in the afternoon and drank Gatorade throughout the workout, so I was fine.

I swear to Ed I could workout and eat pretty much anything when I was younger. :) But it could be that now I have a more erratic schedule, so meals are secondary. I'm not much of a planner in a micro-scale. :)

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Dustin, you have posted a lot of stupid things in reply to several posts of mine and others, but I have let it go so far realizing your diminished intellectual capacity. I remind you the first thread you started on bodybuilding (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=32192) where it is evident that you are not only athletically, but also socially and mentally impaired. I also remind you that I have posted pictures of mine in that thread of yours while you didn't because you were afraid that gays would use them for masturbation material. Need I need remind you the relevant poll as well ? So STFU, dear Dustin, because my patience is not as unlimited as your imbecility. Please don't interpret my reluctance to answer to you in may occasions so far as weakness.


Is this post a joke? It must be!


First of all...I am "athletically impared" because I bailed out of a thread that was hijacked by people talking about the size of bodybuilders penis's? I'd like to see the logic behind THAT claim!

Second of all..You post up some photo of a guy who isn't more than 160lbs and looks like he hasn't worked out a day in his life and you get offended and pissy when someone points out the hypocrisy of you giving workout advice? Grow up buddy.



The only one "socially impaired" would be you. Attacking me because I point out the obvious and criticize you. Not only that..But you use some random thread that was hijacked by others as evidence i'm "mentally and athletically impared"?


All I can say at this point is...

HAHA!

[rjh01]

What is this? A long running competition to see who can get deepest into the gutter? Because it looks like it. Please do not criticise each other's looks or intelligence. Show how poor the other's arguments are and leave it up to the rest of us to work out who has impaired intelligence and looks.

[Gravy]

On Monday I only exercised for one hour and today will be the same, because I'm dealing with the flu.
Workiing out while you have the flu! You're a stronger man than I am! But seriously, THAT sounds like a good way to faint.

[EricGu]

I googled for it but found way too much information and I couldn't wade through those long words. So please keep it simple.

I've been in a 1,200 calorie diet for about 10 days. Quite simple: lean meat, veggies, legumes, fruits and some milk in very small portions. No problems here, I've done this before and it always worked.

Last Wednesday I exercised for nearly 2 hours (water workout + underwater spinning) and about half an hour later I felt dizzy and nauseated. But I forgot about it later. Then on Friday the same thing happened, only this time I got drenched in sweat and was very close to passing out completely. I was in juice shop and looked around to see if there was any hot strong guy to support me if I fell, so that I could sigh and look all delicate and helpless, but there wasn't any, so you see how frustrating the whole experience was. :fg: Kidding aside, it's just an overall unpleasant experience and I'm not used to this.

I'm not in any medication and I'm not diabetic or have any heart condition. I had those checked last year when my father had heart problems. That's why it's so problematic to find good info, google just wants to convince me I have to have those to nearly faint after exercise. :D Oh, and my blood pressure has always been in the normal range.

I gather there is something missing in my diet? Basically, how can I do cardio for two hours without fainting like a Victorian virgin later?

I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way.

As a fairly serious recreational cyclist (I'm currently riding about 120 miles a week and my body fat is somewhere around 10%), and I've done a considerable amount of research about nutrition and exercise.

So, feel free to take or ignore my advice as you see fit.

I think the right approach is to adopt a reasonable eating plan - something like South Beach is a good choice - and eat when you are hungry. Your goal should not to diet, it should be to come up with a plan that works long term.

But... diets like south beach are not designed for people who exercise a lot. I've run into a lot of people who have tried the approach that you are taking, but *none* of the cyclists I know take that approach. They fuel up with carbs to support their exercise.

The reasons are simple. During exercise, you burn both fat and carbohydrate, but the amount of time you can exercise is mostly dependent on how much carbohydrate you have stored. If you take in carbohydrate while you exercise, you can exercise longer. If you take in carbs immediately after, you restore the carb stores, and suppresss your appetite.

I'd suggest reading "food for fitness", by chris carmichael, and south beach if you haven't already.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Well, update... on Friday I screwed up completely, that is, showed up to work out at 7pm, having had a light lunch at noon, and I was late to think of anything. I thought "guys at JREF can't hear about this" :D so I rushed into a juice shop and bought papaya+orange+acerola and took half of it before class and the other half in a 10-minute interval I gave myself. So I worked out two hours with no problem. The problem was later :D when I felt again dizzy and nauseated... but I was home already. Well, it helped that I knew (after some of you used small words to explain to me) that it is not necessarily a bad thing.

On Monday I paid more attention and had a power bar in the afternoon and drank Gatorade throughout the workout, so I was fine.

I swear to Ed I could workout and eat pretty much anything when I was younger. :) But it could be that now I have a more erratic schedule, so meals are secondary. I'm not much of a planner in a micro-scale. :)



Told you it would work.


Personal experience explained in simple terms is more helpful than scientific gibberish from someone who doesn't even work out.

[El Greco]

Dustin, please let me explain:

You are "socially impaired" because of your moronic ideas regarding gays masturbating with your photo, and your generalizing those ideas to the general public.

You are "athletically impaired" because of various and sundry stupid comments you have made from time to time regarding exercise.

And you are "intellectually impaired" because:

1. You estimate bodyweight by a photo (and you are way wrong, BTW)
2. You don't know whose photo is this
3. You don't know when it was taken
4. You relate training with appearance. WTF do you know about someone's training ? So, an 120lbs Olympic weightlifter or a 10,000m runner haven't trained a day in their lives because they don't look bulky to you.
5. You relate knowledge with appearance. So the coach of our national weighlifting team or a university professor aren't qualified to give training advice because they don't look bulky to you.

But I think you have demonstrated those qualities in several other discussions, so perhaps I'm just beating a dead horse here.

ETA: Now that I'm thinking about it, the only data we have about you are these:

1. You are homophobic
2. You only say you workout but you will post no photos
3. You don't know $h!t about "scientific gibberish". You don't even know basic stuff like the things you've been asked by kookbreaker in that thread of yours.

Hmmm... where do the above lead us ?

[El Greco]

What is this? A long running competition to see who can get deepest into the gutter? Because it looks like it. Please do not criticise each other's looks or intelligence. Show how poor the other's arguments are and leave it up to the rest of us to work out who has impaired intelligence and looks.

I guess you are right, but the situation with this troll is getting rather vexing. Another example where I didn't even bother to reply: In this thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=50762) I wrote at a point:

I'm male, expend about 500 kcals daily on exercise, and when I'm dieting my calories are 1200

Then Dustin chimes in with a highly constructive comment:

You burn 5,000 calories a day? What do you do? Run a marathon everyday?

I find that highly unbelievable.

Roboramma answers him:

He said he takes in 1200/day (when dieting) and has a deficit of 1800/day.

1200+1800 = 3000 last I checked.

Dustin returns even more constructively:


It looks like I misread...


He said "500 K cals" meaning 500 thousand calories.

K as in kilo.


It obviously was a mistype.

Knowing the guy, I don't even bother. Someone else does, this time blutoski:

No, that's correct.

1Calorie (capital C) = 1kcal = 1000calories.

At this point you would expect the troll to say it was his mistake, or at least shut the fug up. But noooooooo. Read his answer and tell me what you make of this:

Yes he said "500 kcals" 500,000 calories a day.
lol

All that time I didn't even bother but it seems like this troll has been targeting me and a few others ever since we said in that old thread of his that it is perfectly normal not to bother with someone masturbating with your photo and that he is a homophobe. You'd think he would have forgotten after all this time, but apparently he hasn't.

So I'm sorry to degrade this thread, but this is not the first time I encounter the wall of Dustin's imbecility. I'm just trying to get a troll off my back. You'd notice that I didn't even bother to reply to this twerp - until he started referring to me.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Dustin, please let me explain:

You are "socially impaired" because of your moronic ideas regarding gays masturbating with your photo, and your generalizing those ideas to the general public.

"moronic ideas"? If you want to have homosexuals masturbate to your photo..Be my guest.

But don't call those of us who don't care for such a thing to occur "moronic".


You are "athletically impaired" because of various and sundry stupid comments you have made from time to time regarding exercise.

This makes absolutely no sense for 2 reasons.

1.None of my comments are stupid.


2.Assuming I do make stupid comments regarding exercise that has absolutely nothing to do with my athletic ability. That's like saying someone who makes stupid coments regarding beauty is automatically ugly. Simply absurd reasoning on your part.

And you are "intellectually impaired" because:

1. You estimate bodyweight by a photo (and you are way wrong, BTW)
2. You don't know whose photo is this
3. You don't know when it was taken
4. You relate training with appearance. WTF do you know about someone's training ? So, an 120lbs Olympic weightlifter or a 10,000m runner haven't trained a day in their lives because they don't look bulky to you.
5. You relate knowledge with appearance. So the coach of our national weighlifting team or a university professor aren't qualified to give training advice because they don't look bulky to you.


1.I can accuratly determine bodyweight by a photo in most cases.

2.You already admited it was yours in the very thread you linked a few posts ago!

3.3 years ago(According to you)

4.All of the above look more athletic than you.

5.You're contradicting yourself here and misreading what I even said. First of all...You say that I relate knowledge to appearance? YOU are the one who related supposed knowledge to my actuall physical ability.

You are "athletically impaired" because of various and sundry stupid comments you have made from time to time regarding exercise.

Here you're saying I'm not athletic because(According to you) I don't know much about athletics. A fallacy.

Second of all..I never said people who don't workout can't know alot. I said I find it FUNNY that someone who looks like you is giving exercise advice. I never said you didn't know what you were saying. I implied you obviously don't impliment it.


But I think you have demonstrated those qualities in several other discussions, so perhaps I'm just beating a dead horse here.

ETA: Now that I'm thinking about it, the only data we have about you are these:

1. You are homophobic
2. You only say you workout but you will post no photos
3. You don't know $h!t about "scientific gibberish". You don't even know basic stuff like the things you've been asked by kookbreaker in that thread of yours.

Hmmm... where do the above lead us ?


1.I'm homophobic because I don't want homosexuals oogling me? Faulty logic.

2.You're contradicting yourself yet again.

3.Of course I don't know anything about "Scientific gibbeirsh". I know alot about scientific facts however.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I guess you are right, but the situation with this troll is getting rather vexing. Another example where I didn't even bother to reply: In this thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=50762) I wrote at a point:



Then Dustin chimes in with a highly constructive comment:



Roboramma answers him:



Dustin returns even more constructively:



Knowing the guy, I don't even bother. Someone else does, this time blutoski:



At this point you would expect the troll to say it was his mistake, or at least shut the fug up. But noooooooo. Read his answer and tell me what you make of this:



All that time I didn't even bother but it seems like this troll has been targeting me and a few others ever since we said in that old thread of his that it is perfectly normal not to bother with someone masturbating with your photo and that he is a homophobe. You'd think he would have forgotten after all this time, but apparently he hasn't.

So I'm sorry to degrade this thread, but this is not the first time I encounter the wall of Dustin's imbecility. I'm just trying to get a troll off my back. You'd notice that I didn't even bother to reply to this twerp - until he started referring to me.




You said "500 k cals" which doesn't make any sense. The fault was OBVIOUSLY on your part as blutoski pointed out.

"500 k cals" means 500,000 calories.

You claimed you expended 500,000 calories a day. I pointed out your fault. Now all of a sudden i'm a troll?


Calling everyone who disagrees with you a "Troll" really shows your maturity. I've seen this done alot by you in many posts.


But you go ahead and don't respond to my posts. Not that you could come up with a reasonable response to begin with judging by your past posts.

[El Greco]

You said "500 k cals" which doesn't make any sense. The fault was OBVIOUSLY on your part as blutoski pointed out.

Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.

[Hellbound]

You said "500 k cals" which doesn't make any sense. The fault was OBVIOUSLY on your part as blutoski pointed out.

"500 k cals" means 500,000 calories.

You claimed you expended 500,000 calories a day. I pointed out your fault. Now all of a sudden i'm a troll?


You aren't a troll, you're an uneducated idiot.

Do every one a favor. Buy a science text book, Junior high Physical Science should have it, or any high-schoool physics or chemistry texts. OF course, this assumes you actually have access to high school (I understand you have to attend to have access).

Look up the following terms:

calorie
Calorie
kilocalorie

Then shut the f**k up, because Greco is absolutely correct here, and you are showing your ignorance.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

You aren't a troll, you're an uneducated idiot.

Do every one a favor. Buy a science text book, Junior high Physical Science should have it, or any high-schoool physics or chemistry texts. OF course, this assumes you actually have access to high school (I understand you have to attend to have access).

Look up the following terms:

calorie
Calorie
kilocalorie

Then shut the f**k up, because Greco is absolutely correct here, and you are showing your ignorance.



Either YOU are the troll or your grasp of the english language simply sucks.


Greco said he burned "500 kilo calories a day". That's 500,000 calories.


"k cal" is 1000 calories.


Get it?

What aren't you understanding about this?

"500 k cals" means 500 THOUSAND calories. That's FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND CALORIES. He claimed he expened that amount daily...which isn't possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilocalorie




He made a mistake and instead of admiting me made a mistake he attacks me for pointing it out.

And he calls ME a troll?

HA!

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.



Your case was dead from the start. No resting needed.

[Hellbound]

Okay, Dustin. Let's go into remedial mode.

calories (small c) are not typically used in regards to food, as they are too small a unit to matter.

kilocalories (kcals) are a mnore appropriate unit, and these are used to measure food energy.

In the states, the term kilocalorie was replaced with Calorie (large C). One Calorie=1000 calories=1 kcal.

You simply don't understand the units you claim Greco misused, and you're too stubborn and ignorant to correct your own lack of knowledge.

For your edification, since apparantly you can't be bothered to get off your ***** and learn anything without it being force-fed into your thick skull:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie

In scientific contexts, the name "calorie" refers strictly to the gram calorie, and the unit has the symbol cal. SI prefixes are used with this name and symbol, so the kilogram calorie is known as the "kilocalorie" and has the symbol kcal.

Colloquially, and in nutrition and food labelling, the term "calorie" almost always refers to the kilogram calorie. This applies only to English text; if an energy measurement is given using a unit symbol then the scientific practice prevails there. A convention of capitalising "Calorie" to refer to the kilogram calorie, with uncapitalised "calorie" referring to the gram calorie, is sometimes proposed, but neither recognized in any official standards, nor commonly followed.

Calorie as used in nutrition refers to kcals. Apparently, the large C/small c distinction is still in debate, however, so I withdraw that part of my argument. Doesn't really matter, though, as kcal is specifically the unit that is equal to one nutrition calorie.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Okay, Dustin. Let's go into remedial mode.

calories (small c) are not typically used in regards to food, as they are too small a unit to matter.

kilocalories (kcals) are a mnore appropriate unit, and these are used to measure food energy.

In the states, the term kilocalorie was replaced with Calorie (large C). One Calorie=1000 calories=1 kcal.

You simply don't understand the units you claim Greco misused, and you're too stubborn and ignorant to correct your own lack of knowledge.

For your edification, since apparantly you can't be bothered to get off your ***** and learn anything without it being force-fed into your thick skull:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie



Calorie as used in nutrition refers to kcals. Apparently, the large C/small c distinction is still in debate, however, so I withdraw that part of my argument. Doesn't really matter, though, as kcal is specifically the unit that is equal to one nutrition calorie.



By definition...

The small calorie or gram calorie approximates the energy needed to increase the temperature of 1 g of water by 1 °C. This is about 4.185 J.

^^This is what anyone means when they say "calorie". 1 gram of water by 1 degree c.


The large calorie or kilogram calorie approximates the energy needed to increase the temperature of 1 kg of water by 1 °C. This is about 4.185 kJ, and exactly 1000 small calories.

^^This is what Greco said. 1 KILOGRAM of water by 1degree c. This measure to exactly 1000 small calories(or normal calories).



The modern definition for calorie in America..Or anywhere else is...

The quantity of thermal energy required to raise one gram of water 1°C at 15°C.

www.flw.com/define_c.htm



Now this is where you say "I was wrong Dustin, I'm sorry for insulting you like the little imature child I am."

[Hellbound]

By definition...



^^This is what anyone means when they say "calorie". 1 gram of water by 1 degree c.




^^This is what Greco said. 1 KILOGRAM of water by 1degree c. This measure to exactly 1000 small calories(or normal calories).



The modern definition for calorie in America..Or anywhere else is...



www.flw.com/define_c.htm



Now this is where you say "I was wrong Dustin, I'm sorry for insulting you like the little imature child I am."

You're wrong, Dustin, and I'm sorry you're acting like the immature little child you are.

500,000 claories, then, in the sense you mean, is not very much. It's perfectly reasonable to expend this amount in a couple hours exercise.

However, the definition of calorie used in, for example, the 2000-calorie-a-day RDAs is the kilocalorie, or the amount of energy needed to raise the temp of one kilogram of water by one degree. This is also the measure used on objects such as Soda cans and other food packaging...the kilocalorie, not the gram calorie.

I'm sorry you have such trouble with understanding and comprehension. And I'll apologize for insulting you as soon as you refrain from acting in a manner worthy of insults.

Let me repost the part you blatantly ignored so that you could attempt to retain the failing threads of your argument:Colloquially, and in nutrition and food labelling, the term "calorie" almost always refers to the kilogram calorie. This applies only to English text; if an energy measurement is given using a unit symbol then the scientific practice prevails there.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

You're wrong, Dustin, and I'm sorry you're acting like the immature little child you are.

500,000 claories, then, in the sense you mean, is not very much. It's perfectly reasonable to expend this amount in a couple hours exercise.


If the amount of Calories needed daily is 2,500 for the average male...The average male would need to eat over TWO HUNDRED TIMES the amount of food.

Think about that. You're simply wrong.

I'm immature because I don't admit i'm wrong? How does that make me immature? INSULTING someone because you disagree with them is immature...Not not admiting you're wrong.


However, the definition of calorie used in, for example, the 2000-calorie-a-day RDAs is the kilocalorie, or the amount of energy needed to raise the temp of one kilogram of water by one degree. This is also the measure used on objects such as Soda cans and other food packaging...the kilocalorie, not the gram calorie.

I'm sorry you have such trouble with understanding and comprehension. And I'll apologize for insulting you as soon as you refrain from acting in a manner worthy of insults.

Let me repost the part you blatantly ignored so that you could attempt to retain the failing threads of your argument:



And let ME repost the part YOU blatantly ignored...


A convention of capitalising "Calorie" to refer to the kilogram calorie, with uncapitalised "calorie" referring to the gram calorie, is sometimes proposed, but neither recognized in any official standards, nor commonly followed.


Greco did not capitalize it. He simply said "kcal" which is WHAT THE ENTIRE ARGUMENT IS ABOUT. WHICH IS WHAT CAUSED THE CONFUSION,WHICH WAS THE ERROR ON HIS PART.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I just saw your profile and noticed you're 31 years old!! Do us all a favor and grow up.

No one of any age has ever talked to me like you are in person. Calling me an "uneducated idiot." It only happens on message boards. I wonder why that is...Hmm!

If we were talking face to face you'd be alot less aggressive than you are now. I guarantee that. If you threw around as many insult as you do online in face to face speak...You probably wouldn't have many teeth left!

You're probably one of those 115lb guys who can't act tough around people face to face so he gets his kicks throwing pointless insults on message boards to anyone who simply disagrees with them.

Notice the first post in this thread and you're calling me an "Idiot". That says alot about YOUR mauturity level..Or lack thereof.

[El Greco]

You're probably one of those 115lb guys who can't act tough around people face to face so he gets his kicks throwing pointless insults on message boards to anyone who simply disagrees with them.

Dustin, STFU at last. No matter who's talking to you and whether he is 115lbs or 350lbs, you are still an idiot. This wouldn't be so bad in itself, but you are also malevolent. You can't be malevolent AND idiot at the same time. It looks bad. All successful malevolent people are clever and all successful idiots are good-hearted. Your combination is simply catastrophic.

BTW, I know I don't even look like I workout but in any case I'll post a pic again. Before you ask, you may freely masturbate with it. I don't mind at all. (I used to think that even you could understand the difference between "I don't mind" and "I want", but I was wrong).

I don't hope you can ever be educated. You are Beyond Education. All I want is to never see your ugly nick again referring to my posts directly or indirectly. Pretend I don't exist and you can continue practicing imbecility till hell freezes. Otherwise I'll register to that bodybuilding site you post and I'll link here so that everybody can admire your contributions.

Get off my back, you sorry excuse of a troll.

ETA: Sorry I used words with more than two syllables.

[Luciana]

Now I have fainted, ladies and gentlemen.

http://www.smiley.webrealite.com/images/love/a098.gif

[Miss Whiplash]

When was the last time you had an EKG?

[Luciana]

It was the pic above that did it, Vampire. :fg: There is only so much a girl can take... I think I'll call other skephicks to check this thread. :D

[Mrs. Hmmphries]

.

BTW, I know I don't even look like I workout but in any case I'll post a pic again.


That was sarcasm, right?
None of the guys that I know who sit around eating cheetos all day and not working out certainly do not look like that...

[Jas]

I think you fill out a speedo better than anyone on the forum, El Greco.

[Hellbound]

I just saw your profile and noticed you're 31 years old!! Do us all a favor and grow up.

No one of any age has ever talked to me like you are in person. Calling me an "uneducated idiot." It only happens on message boards. I wonder why that is...Hmm!

If we were talking face to face you'd be alot less aggressive than you are now. I guarantee that. If you threw around as many insult as you do online in face to face speak...You probably wouldn't have many teeth left!

You're probably one of those 115lb guys who can't act tough around people face to face so he gets his kicks throwing pointless insults on message boards to anyone who simply disagrees with them.

Notice the first post in this thread and you're calling me an "Idiot". That says alot about YOUR mauturity level..Or lack thereof.

Brilliant.

So, somehow you commiting assault would make you right, is that your argument?

I'm actually 183 lbs., and a member of the U.S. miliatry. I work out regularly, including weights and running. Not huge, by any means, but far from the tiny person you seem to wish I were.

In any case, that really doesn't matter. You are misunderstanding. You are wrong. Let's start formt he top, and I promise not to use big words.

There are two types of calorie, the gram-calorie and the kilogram-calorie.

When calories is used in reference to food, it refers to the kilogram-calorie. The 2000 calorie a day "average" diet is based on kilogram-calories. The calorie listings on food labels in the U.S. is based on the kilogram-calorie. All of this is based on the kilogram-calorie.

So, 500 kcals is 500 calroies, or about 1/4th of the average daily diet. You burn about 150 calories, or 150 kcals, in a half-hour or so fo running (if I remember my figures correctly). 500 kcals (or 500 calories) in an exercise session is not unreasonable.

You also missed this part of the link:Colloquially, and in nutrition and food labelling, the term "calorie" almost always refers to the kilogram calorie. This applies only to English text; if an energy measurement is given using a unit symbol then the scientific practice prevails there.

"kcal" is the scientific unit symbol, indicating he was referring to "thousands of gram-calories" rather than "thousands of kilogram-calories". You immediately assumed (because of your ignorance) that he was talking about "thousands of kilogram-calories", because you don't know what you're talking about. You either did not know that kcal refers, specifically, to the gram-calorie, or you did not know that "calorie" as used in non-scientific areas (such as dietary amounts and food labelling) refers to the kilogram-calorie.

This is information that is covered in high-school level chemistry texts. Thus, it rather puts paid to the idea that you are an "expert" in fitness and nutrition.

Of course, despite the fact that this information has been clearly spelled out to you, provided in no uncertain terms in the links, and that basically you are the only who seems to think you are right, and the fact that you have no evidence to show that Greco's usage was incorrect, you still insist that everyone else is being childish and you are correct.

Of course, then you tell me you'd smash my teeth in because you are, apparently, too full of yourself to admit error, too happy to jumpo on others for mistakes (whether they made them or not), too insecure to think someone might tell you off unless they had a message board to hide behind, and too ignorant (I'm using the specifically correct usage of the word, mind you) to understand the issues at hand.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Brilliant.

So, somehow you commiting assault would make you right, is that your argument?

I'm actually 183 lbs., and a member of the U.S. miliatry. I work out regularly, including weights and running. Not huge, by any means, but far from the tiny person you seem to wish I were.

In any case, that really doesn't matter. You are misunderstanding. You are wrong. Let's start formt he top, and I promise not to use big words.

There are two types of calorie, the gram-calorie and the kilogram-calorie.

When calories is used in reference to food, it refers to the kilogram-calorie. The 2000 calorie a day "average" diet is based on kilogram-calories. The calorie listings on food labels in the U.S. is based on the kilogram-calorie. All of this is based on the kilogram-calorie.

So, 500 kcals is 500 calroies, or about 1/4th of the average daily diet. You burn about 150 calories, or 150 kcals, in a half-hour or so fo running (if I remember my figures correctly). 500 kcals (or 500 calories) in an exercise session is not unreasonable.

You also missed this part of the link:

"kcal" is the scientific unit symbol, indicating he was referring to "thousands of gram-calories" rather than "thousands of kilogram-calories". You immediately assumed (because of your ignorance) that he was talking about "thousands of kilogram-calories", because you don't know what you're talking about. You either did not know that kcal refers, specifically, to the gram-calorie, or you did not know that "calorie" as used in non-scientific areas (such as dietary amounts and food labelling) refers to the kilogram-calorie.

This is information that is covered in high-school level chemistry texts. Thus, it rather puts paid to the idea that you are an "expert" in fitness and nutrition.

Of course, despite the fact that this information has been clearly spelled out to you, provided in no uncertain terms in the links, and that basically you are the only who seems to think you are right, and the fact that you have no evidence to show that Greco's usage was incorrect, you still insist that everyone else is being childish and you are correct.

Of course, then you tell me you'd smash my teeth in because you are, apparently, too full of yourself to admit error, too happy to jumpo on others for mistakes (whether they made them or not), too insecure to think someone might tell you off unless they had a message board to hide behind, and too ignorant (I'm using the specifically correct usage of the word, mind you) to understand the issues at hand.


Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said I'd hit you. I said you wouldn't insult me needlessly like you're currently doing.

I said that if you were as insulting as you are online in face to face speak you probably would have alot less teeth. Though not because of me. I don't hit people.


I just walk away.


Like i'm doing right now with this hijacked thread.




I won't waste my time replying to constant insults regardless of who's right(Though it's obviously me)

[Hellbound]

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said I'd hit you. I said you wouldn't insult me needlessly like you're currently doing.

I said that if you were as insulting as you are online in face to face speak you probably would have alot less teeth. Though not because of me. I don't hit people.


I just walk away.


Like i'm doing right now with this hijacked thread.




I won't waste my time replying to constant insults regardless of who's right(Though it's obviously me)

No, I only insult those who are needlessly offensive, malevolent, and who rely on self-enforced ignorance to prop up their sagging egos. I'm typically very personable in person, unless you act like an ***** and show the reasoning skills of a 2 year old.

If you're right, just show it. You could shut me up quick and turn the whole thing around in a second if you could prove any of your silly assertions:

1. That the term "kcal" applies to "thousands of kilogram-calories"

or

2. That kilogram-calories are not the standard measure used in dietary measures and food labelling.

or

3. That 2000 gram-calories is, somehow, the amount needed by a person per day (on average).

Heck, you can burn 500 gram-calories in about 10 minutes (if that). Easy to test. Get a bucket. Put in exactly 500 grams of water (about a fifth or sixth a gallon, IIRC). Wait fo rthe temp to equalize with room temperature. Measure the temperature. Put your hand intot he water and hold it there for ten minutes. Remove your hand and measure the temperature.

I'd pretty much garauntee that it won't take long for your hand to raise the temp of that water by one degree, thus meaning you expended 500 gram-calories.

You are obviously wrong, Dustin, as can be confirmed through source material or direct experiment.

You are an arrogant, ignorant prick who refuses to admit the possiblility of an error.

That's why you've been insulted. Not because I disagreed with you, not because I'm noramlly insulting, but because you're an *****. In fact, the only reason I became involved int he argument at all is because of how spectacular an ***** you were being...and I couldn't resist the urge to deflate your over-swollen ego.

And keep believing you're right. The evidence will speak for itself, to those with enough functional brain cells remaining to rub two together and spark an idea.

Huntsman--Do not personally attack other members.

[kittynh]

you know, those photos can be faked. And what if there is just one big ugly wonker of a nose on that face?

More evidence please. Or I am going to have to report you.

(A back shot would be nice also, I mean, maybe you have a fat butt?)

[skeptigirl]

...

5 See a physicianWhile it isn't very common, you should be sure there isn't something more serious here so Aardvark's advice is pretty important.

There is a rare heart problem called aortic stenosis which causes people to have problems when they exercise.

It could be you are overdoing the diet and exercise and much as you want to lose weight, losing it rapidly almost never works in the long run. Over exercising on a low calorie diet can result in the vaso-vagal symptoms you are describing. Especially if you are drinking a lot of coffee or other caffeine source.

[Luciana]

Why are you guys fighting... this thread is now officially to drool over Greco in a speedo. http://www.smiley.webrealite.com/images/love/g078.gif

See, skepchicks liked it, such a coincidence that so many came!!

If a skepchick ever posted a pic of herself in a bikini, it's likely all servers would be jammed for three days. :D

[Luciana]

While it isn't very common, you should be sure there isn't something more serious here so Aardvark's advice is pretty important.

There is a rare heart problem called aortic stenosis which causes people to have problems when they exercise.

Thanks for the worry, skeptigirl... but I'm easy on that part, as just last year I had an EKG and echocardiogram. I took no chances because my father had heart troubles last year, and it seems that I inherit all things bad he has. And I was totally cleared.

I'm actually loving my water workout! :cs:

[El Greco]

Strange though it may seem, the attention a nice exercised body draws does not seem that significant to me. Not anymore, at least. On the contrary, it may subconciously predispose many women in a certain way. What I mean is that relatively mature women looking for a steady relationship and/or marriage are looking for a male who will care for them and place them in the centre of his attention. They are looking for a provider. A too-perfect body sends the subliminal message that its owner is too self-centered and pre-occupied with himself and so he wouldn't make a good provider (barring modifiers like money or social status). Which of course is not always true but there is certainly much more than a grain of truth in it. Less mature women or those who are just interested in an adventure are of course much more attracted by such an image. This is also true for more mature women who have learnt to suppress such subliminal messages because they have found them to be too often erroneous. So, although such an image is certainly helpful in establishing a "pecking order" and attracting adventurous females, it may actually be counterproductive if you are after the average female who's looking for a steady relationship. I'd rather approach such women in buggy clothes...

[Hellbound]

Why are you guys fighting... this thread is now officially to drool over Greco in a speedo. http://www.smiley.webrealite.com/images/love/g078.gif

See, skepchicks liked it, such a coincidence that so many came!!

If a skepchick ever posted a pic of herself in a bikini, it's likely all servers would be jammed for three days. :D

Sorry, Luci. Seems to be done now. I just really hate pompous ignorance...and I have a bit of a "revolutionary" gene in me. I can't resist a chance to watch arrogance choke on it's feet ;)

[blutoski]

Strange though it may seem, the attention a nice exercised body draws does not seem that significant to me. Not anymore, at least.

When I was younger, appearance made a difference in my relationships, but now that I'm mwc, the only real motive is to retain professional currency as a personal trainer. It's very difficult for a personal trainer to have credibility if s/he's not at least trim, if not actually buff.

The downside is that most of my training these days has been very sport-focused. The only way to get credentials in a particular sport is to win competitions, but my *other* jobs prevent me from being reliably in town for races, so I have to go for the appearance instead. At least for now.

Regarding the OT: I'm reluctant to give or even receive medical advice over the internet.

Which is interesting, because I remember years ago, the big sales pitch from 'futurists' was examples of panicked parents getting good pediatric advice immediately from chatrooms, or doctors in Africa looking up new techniques via Lycos.

[El Greco]

People... it's almost unbelievable... but after all this... THE IDIOT CONTINUES (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=1666788#post1666788)

I think we have a completely novel case in psychopathology.

Stop with the insults. This is not civil behavior.

[rjh01]

Please El Greco do not derail the topic with a personal attack on another poster. You are an intelligent person who has made a positive contribution to this thread (and others). If need be report him for harassment. Do not commit it yourself.

[El Greco]

I think this thread is already derailed (officially, too...). I don't consider my reaction a "personal attack"; it's rather a defense. Look at how it all started ("Obviously something is up with everyone here" (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=32192&page=4&p=854468)). Not that I care much (if I did I'd start a thread in Flame Wars, I'd compose a Larsen list or I'd point out inconsistencies in his posts). But even if I don't care much, I want people who've read this thread to understand that I'm dealing with a stalker. I don't think stalking breaks any rules and even if it did I wouldn't report him since he harms his own image more by posting than by abstaining. But the main reason I posted here again is so that I'll have a handy link to a thread which I can refer people to when I want them to see what exactly Dustin is.

Gee, I guess someone reported me... I wonder who that may be :D

[rjh01]

It nearly was me. I had the choice of either reporting you or making the post I did. If anyone else had made the post I would have reported the post. It looks like several other people agree with me (Lisa and the person who reported you [and others]).

The thread you referred to is 18 months old or so. If that is the best you can do that is not very good.

If you can make a case for him stalking you then report him. Get him banned. If he has not broken any rules (eg be civil and polite) then what is your complaint? I can see nothing wrong with a person who is stupid. Just show that they are stupid without saying so. Then you have made a fool of them instead of making a fool of yourself like you have above.

[El Greco]

If he has not broken any rules (eg be civil and polite) then what is your complaint?

rjh01, I think you have a confusion as to what means to be "civil and polite". Civility and politeness -like so many other qualities- can't be delimited by the letter of the law. I can perfectly well be rude, impolite and a total fool by following your posts and asking something like "oh, really ?" at everything you say. This is an example of being uncivil and impolite without breaking any rules. So the question you ask above seems to me naive to say the least.

Dustin's actions have been uncivil and impolite many times, and not only regarding me. Someone else had started a flame thread about Dustin in the past, inspired by his posts in the Politics section. It is not a question of being stupid; it's a question of malevolence. Dustin has been shown to be wrong repeatedly. He contradicts himself continuously (eg, in that 18 months old thread he had just started lifting; now he's been lifting for 10 years). He has insulted the majority of members here (eg, the phrase I quoted above). But he has never apologized; instead he keeps being unbannably uncivil and impolite, trying to look for a way to disagree with me even when I agree with him (eg in this case, by some miracle of Ed, his suggestion of a sports drink was correct, and I even said myself that a sports drink would help - although by no means it is the only thing that would help).

You say that "all I can do" is that 18 months old case. It is not (and just in this very thread I have linked to two more Dustin invaluables, which you choose to ignore, perhaps to make your own case). If I would bother to show you more of Dustin during those 18 months would that change your judgment of my reaction ? It wouldn't, because according to your criteria civility and impoliteness is determined by whether you use words or asterisks.

I want to make a particularly strong point about your opinion that I have made a fool of myself here and that Dustin has been civil and polite (since he has not been banned). I will repeat it in bold for the sake of accentuated brevity: rjh01 thinks I have made a fool of myself in this thread and that Dustin has been civil and polite because he has not broken any rules. There, I feel much better now that I can see it in bold :D

Lisa does not necessarily agree with you in principle; she would have to warn anyone calling an "idiot" anyone else. This is certainly breaking the rules and I don't deny that. But I wasn't even angry at the time of the insulting posts. It's just that many times I prefer to react exactly like I would in real life. IRL, if anyone had been behaving like Dustin, he would hear those exact words I've written above. And this is where I'd partially agree with Dustin: IRL, he would never behave like that. All this does not mean of course that I can't be extremely insulting without even coming close to breaking a single rule. Oh, I sure can.

Just like for every woo therapy you are about to find testimonials from people who "have been helped", it is equally certain that for every forum debate you can find people who will agree or disagree with your viewpoint and behavior, whatever that may be. But I don't think you really want to play the numbers game in this case though, unless all you care about is the letter of the law. And I guess this must be it, because I have been the sole recipient of your criticism, without you offering not even a little comment on Dustin's general behavior (which, I suppose, is perfecty ok if it doesn't breach rule [x]) :rolleyes:

ETA: This reminds me of something that had happened to an ex-girlfriend of mine. She used to relax in her backyard during the hot summer days and there was this guy who would stand on the opposite side of the road and stare at her. He would even change his position so that he could still see her when she would go sit behind a tree. This has been happening for two days and he wouldn't reply to questions or requests to leave. Finally, the girl crossed the road and shouted at him loudly "fug off, you jerk!". An old lady who happened to be passing by turned at my ex and sharply reprehended her: "Why are you calling names this boy ? Do you know he can sue you ?"

Yeah, I guess he could :D

[rjh01]

What I think and what you think of what I think is not important. Any relationship between the two is coincidental.

If a person posted 'oh Really?' after my posts I may report them for breeching the rules.

How are you going to stop Dustin breeching the rules? He is not my problem (yet). He is yours.

I will be going to bed soon. If I do not post anything more on the subject in the next 18 hours do not expect me to post any more on this subject.

[El Greco]

I don't understand your question about Dustin breaching the rules (though you might be correct, breeching may be more appropriate in this case :D). I already said that he doesn't, so I'm not going to do anything. Even if he did I would still do nothing because I consider it more harmful for him to just let him post. If you would report a person who keeps stalking you by just posting silly things in reply to your posts, you'd do nothing because this isn't violating any rules, period.

What you think and what I think may not be important to you, but they have a meaning for me, especially since you got in the trouble of posting your thoughts, which shows if nothing else that you have been at least a little annoyed.

In restrospect, I have to say that this thread has been very successful for me. I have managed to draw attention to Dustin which in itself is more than adequate for someone to evaluate him. There is of course the risk that some people (like rjh01) are going to think that I have made a fool of myself. Frankly, I don't see this as a risk but as a beneficial side effect. Because, if after reading through this thread and the 2-3 links I've provided, one thinks that I have made a fool of myself, then I'd say that person was inevitably going to form that opinion about me sooner or later. Alas, you can't be liked by everyone and I'm pretty happy to make my point to those who know me a little better. Those who know that after 2.5 years and 5600 posts here I've extremely rarely called another poster an idiot or a troll and my doing so here must mean something. Heck, I even supported Dustin himself when he was being ridiculed and called a troll by others in his bodybuilding thread.

So it's actually a pleasure finding out who thinks what of whom and with which criteria some people form their opinions on others. I just take mental notes that serve as a useful future guide, because, as I have repeatedly said, I come here mainly for fun and I don't particularly enjoy dealing with people who either don't like me or who are very likely to be offended by something I'll say. So, taking a mental note that rjh01 thinks I've made a fool of myself (more bolding goodness :D) is actually very useful to me.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

When I said I had only "started lifting" in that post 18 months ago I was refering to my time simply being in the gym and seriously having a regime. I've been actually lifting for around 10 years.

Maybe you should ask someone about their post before jumping onto the conclusion it's a contradiction and proceeding to insult them like you've been doing.

Just because someone starts a flame post about me doesn't mean i'm wrong, It only means this forum has alot of trolls in it. Saying alot of people don't like me therefor I must be mean or wrong is a blatant appeal to popularity.


I never attacked you yet you're attacking me constantly and insulting me. I don't see the point in even defending myself anymore in this thread from your insults and libel. So I won't. Goodbye.

[El Greco]

Dustin, you don't lift. Not seriously, at least. Not for 10 years, not for 18 months. It's easy to tell because your level of ignorance is abysmal. There is no way that a lifter of even two weeks wouldn't know what a kcal is. I mean, all you had to do was read a food label. But if for a moment we do accept that you actually do lift for that long, then your abysmal lack of knowledge shows something even worse about you. Can you guess what is it ?

As far as I'm concerned you are not even attack-worthy. I have been completely ignoring your nonsense for a long time. It's just that I recently decided to get rid of your stalking and expose you to more people.

And while I've been happily ignoring you, you simply can't do the same. Thread after thread, topic after topic. Even in this very thread, this is the second time you say goodbye. I don't know... maybe you are in love with me and this is your way of showing it. Now that I think about it, this wouldn't be too far off. Remember what Reginald said to you (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=32319&p=856680) ?

Oh and by the way, adjust your skirt, your homophobia is clearly showing.

IIRC, there were more "trolls" -as you call them- like Reginald who accused you of homophobia...and you certainly know what they say about homophobes. So, search deep in your heart, Dustin, and answer this question as honestly as you can:

Are you in love with me ?

Anyway, I'm still here. And I'll continue posting here with a link to your amazing contributions every single time you reply to a post of mine (I know that you will continue replying, because unrequited love is so painful). And I'll be crosslinking here from there as well. Because, dear Dustin, I'm determined to either get rid of you or make sure that everybody in this forum learns what kind of a person you are.

Finally, I have to say that Huntsman's attempts to educate you have been a failure mainly because he started with very advanced topics. I think that everything would be easier if we start from the beginning. The strange colorful items you see below are called "books". When you are familiar with this new concept we will learn what exactly we do with those "books".

[CriticalThanking]

When I was younger, appearance made a difference in my relationships, but now that I'm mwc, the only real motive is to retain professional currency as a personal trainer. It's very difficult for a personal trainer to have credibility if s/he's not at least trim, if not actually buff.

The downside is that most of my training these days has been very sport-focused. The only way to get credentials in a particular sport is to win competitions, but my *other* jobs prevent me from being reliably in town for races, so I have to go for the appearance instead. At least for now.
I agree there are those for whom your statement is 100% accurate. My unscientific sampling of personal trainers shows 2 different trends for both "gym membership" and sport-specific training. There are many who will only work with a trainer who is a superior representative of fitness/the sport in question.

The second category is primarily the beginner, but in generalization, someone who is non-competitive. It is the person who needs to lose some (perhaps a lot) of weight and relates to someone who is knowlegable, has aerobic and possibly strength fitness, but has excess body fat. Ok - "rounder" or "more average looking" to put it in simple terms. Such instructors can serve as a great role model of someone who is fit (or fitter than average), is regularly active, and still looks like a normal human.

I see a large number of people at triathlons most would never guess to be athletes. Are they in danger of winning a medal? Not a chance in Hell's Kitchen! But they are aerobically fit and have fun doing it. Setting a Personal Record may be important, but that has nothing to do with the body fat % of your coach.

I have 4 "unofficial" tri coaches on my team. Two are competive age-group athletes with impressive physiques. One is a fast swimmer, but is Athena-class (a large woman) and is slow on the bike and run. The 4th is age 65 with bad knees and shoulders. All have completed at least one iron(person) race. It is their ability to work with others, their positive attitudes, and their knowlege of the sport that makes them so popular. Each person will gravitate to a trainer that offers what they are looking for.

And who knows - perhaps your significant other has an opinion about whether or not you are preferred buff or not. Certainly you are preferred healthy.

CriticalThanking

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I agree there are those for whom your statement is 100% accurate. My unscientific sampling of personal trainers shows 2 different trends for both "gym membership" and sport-specific training. There are many who will only work with a trainer who is a superior representative of fitness/the sport in question.

The second category is primarily the beginner, but in generalization, someone who is non-competitive. It is the person who needs to lose some (perhaps a lot) of weight and relates to someone who is knowlegable, has aerobic and possibly strength fitness, but has excess body fat. Ok - "rounder" or "more average looking" to put it in simple terms. Such instructors can serve as a great role model of someone who is fit (or fitter than average), is regularly active, and still looks like a normal human.

I see a large number of people at triathlons most would never guess to be athletes. Are they in danger of winning a medal? Not a chance in Hell's Kitchen! But they are aerobically fit and have fun doing it. Setting a Personal Record may be important, but that has nothing to do with the body fat % of your coach.

I have 4 "unofficial" tri coaches on my team. Two are competive age-group athletes with impressive physiques. One is a fast swimmer, but is Athena-class (a large woman) and is slow on the bike and run. The 4th is age 65 with bad knees and shoulders. All have completed at least one iron(person) race. It is their ability to work with others, their positive attitudes, and their knowlege of the sport that makes them so popular. Each person will gravitate to a trainer that offers what they are looking for.

And who knows - perhaps your significant other has an opinion about whether or not you are preferred buff or not. Certainly you are preferred healthy.

CriticalThanking



I personally always laugh when I see musclebound baseball players or football players being trained by some chubby coach who has never lifted a weight or played the game in question once in their life. If you don't have personal experience in what you're saying and all of your knowledge comes from books, Then you can't relate with the person you're training. Meaning you probably won't be a very good coach.

[El Greco]

Predictably, the stalking continues (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=1668155#post1668155). Complete with "thumbs down" icons :D

[tygirwulf]

I'd stalk you too, with that nice body of yours. :D

[CriticalThanking]

I personally always laugh when I see musclebound baseball players or football players being trained by some chubby coach who has never lifted a weight or played the game in question once in their life. If you don't have personal experience in what you're saying and all of your knowledge comes from books, Then you can't relate with the person you're training. Meaning you probably won't be a very good coach.
How in the world would you know if the chubby coach ever lifted or not or played? I would be surprised if they never played. I have no numbers, but it would go against what I have seen.

Most doctors have never had life-threatening diseases or injuries, but I'll take their book knowlege any day. Ok - a bit of stretch. Perhaps someone who has no direct experience is not someone to whom you could relate, but would argue that says more about you than the coach.

People with similar experiences can have radically different teaching styles. They may or may not both have the same book learning. Which is better? The one that gets the lesson through to you is better, regardless of background. To me this is not specific to sports, but is a truism for all teaching.

YMMV,

CriticalThanking

[blutoski]

I personally always laugh when I see musclebound baseball players or football players being trained by some chubby coach who has never lifted a weight or played the game in question once in their life. If you don't have personal experience in what you're saying and all of your knowledge comes from books, Then you can't relate with the person you're training. Meaning you probably won't be a very good coach.

I think this is literally judging a book by its cover, though. I coach at least two sports for which I've never actually trained (diving and water polo), and our club is very competitive.

Coaching is its own skill, and the ability to perform in the sport only has the benefit of impressing parents, which is to say, it's a salespitch thing, because some people judge everything based on looks. As I mentioned earlier, my currency as a personal trainer is very dependent on my appearance, but this is tossing a bone to the public, not an actual requirement.

I used to hire and fire coaches, and over time, I realized that there's no relationship between an applicant's past accomplishments in the sport, if any, and the effectiveness of his coaching.

In fact, the younger the athlete, the less important the coach's connection to the sport, and the more important it is for the coach to be a motivator and class manager. Ten-year-olds don't want to hear war stories about olympic trials.



When I was competitive, my training physicians were Dr. Jack Taunton, Dr. Clyde Smith, and Dr. Clement. Only Dr. Clement was athletic (marathons), but they were all exceptionally competent. My coach was an old summer synchro swimmer, and she put five swimmers into the olympics, eight into the worlds, and about ten into the commonwealths. I didn't see any benefit to my training support being buff olympic medalists.

In fact, there's a sea change in Canada after so many years of 8ty olympic peformance: out with high-profile the ex-athletes who've been running the program into the ground for 20 years, and in with the credentialed coaching / training / performance / nutrition experts. It's possible some of these people may be a bit overweight.

[El Greco]

I'd stalk you too, with that nice body of yours. :D

You think that's the reason, eh ? Thats' what I'm thinking as well. The poor boy is in love with me. :D

He keeps trying... (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=1669995)

But you hardly know me, Dustin...